The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#125 - David Hedges
A fall storm, ankle‑deep snow, and a west wind tearing across the Sawatch set the stage—then David Hedges took the Nolans 14 record back by roughly ten minutes. We unpack how it happened, from the early confidence on Antero to a near-collapse between Harvard and Oxford, a frozen night saved by borrowed layers and hot gels, and a final, ruthless push off Massive that flipped the math with miles to spare. The story isn’t just splits; it’s style, stewardship, and what local fluency really looks like when the terrain turns feral.
We dig into route decisions like choosing the Columbia–Harvard traverse when conditions allow, why Princeton is the true make‑or‑break, and how Pine Creek’s flooded willows taxed time and patience. David contrasts a lean, self‑navigated approach with a big‑budget model, raising thoughtful questions about GPX dependency, pacers, and what FKTs are rewarding now. He also walks through working directly with the Leadville district ranger during the La Plata closure—a quiet example of respecting the place you move through fast.
Looking ahead, David shares a sharp slate of objectives that fit his engine: the Tonto Trail, the La Sal Traverse, and SCAR in the Smokies. Then comes the bold target—Aconcagua’s standard route FKT—where altitude physiology, long uphill intervals, and precise downhill pacing become the whole game. If you love FKTs, mountain strategy, and honest talk about what it takes to move fast when conditions say no, this one’s a feast.
If this conversation resonated, follow David on Instagram at D_hedges_, share the episode with a friend who geeks out on routes and style, and leave a quick review so more mountain nerds can find the show. Got thoughts on purity vs pace on Nolans? Drop us a note and join the debate.
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Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello
Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod
Use code steepstuffpod for 25% off your cart at UltimateDirection.com!
Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello. And today I'm so excited to bring you a special presentation of the podcast. This time with Nolan's 14 record holder David Hedges. David is fresh off lowering the Nolan's 14 record back on September the 15th. He lowered the record by about 10 minutes to one day, 11 hours, 23 minutes, and 15 seconds. David braved pretty nasty weather, ankle deep snow, freezing temperatures, massive dehydration, as well as low caloric deficits, and was over to overcome some massive obstacles to lower the record. David actually originally set the record back in 2023, and it was lowered this year by Francois Dane, who came around in July to the area and took a small chunk of time off of David's record. And David was able to come back and uh finally in this David vs. Goliath moment for our sport, uh lower the record. This was a great episode. Uh David was pretty kind candid and kind enough to come on the podcast, debrief just about the entire record. Um we talked about specific route choices, like taking the Columbia Harvard Traverse versus going around. Um so we also talked about closures off La Plata and what David did by reaching out to the park service to uh get those mitigated and just doing a bunch of stuff. It was it was a really interesting episode, and like I said, we debriefed the thing in its entirety. Um, one aspect um I don't want this to ever come across, like it's me being negative towards Francois Dane. Um, but that said, we did debate the stylistic differences between Francois and David in this very Royal Robbins versus Warren Harding moment for our sport where Francois came out to the area in July. He brought a very large group of athletes with him to kind of debrief and break down the course, had patience with him for most of the time, um, you know, stayed in a camper and just did things differently than David did, who's more adopted maybe more of the purity and like dirtbag lifestyle. Um so we did debate kind of those differences between the two and in the records and um even got into the nitty-gritty on the routes they specifically chose as well. Um and David was kind enough to uh be pretty candid about that as well. So I hope you guys enjoy this one. It's it's it's an interesting episode, lots of good stuff there. Want to thank David so much for coming on. Um so yeah, without further ado, David Hedges and the Nolans 14. David Hedges, welcome back to this Deep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man? Good, good, thanks, James. Yeah, man. I'm excited to have you back on. Um, same thing with the message I sent to you after you broke the Nolan's record again. The good guys won this time, and I was really excited for that. It was it was really cool to see you go back and uh chase this. It was especially given the circumstances with you know potential closures at La Plata, uh, issues with obviously the weather was kind of crazy this time around, and you still did the damn thing. So I gotta give you hats off, man. Amazing record and amazing, amazing undertaking.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks. Yeah, and I was just thinking, like uh reflecting that you or like a bunch of people who you've had on the pod were helping out too.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Noah, Morgan. I haven't had Morgan yet, but I know Noah was a um Aaron, yeah. Yeah, Aaron was around. Yeah, it was like a nice little family of of pod alum were we're all around, which is kind of cool.
SPEAKER_03:All right, cool. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:How are you? Uh I know I asked you this offline, but how are you feeling? How's uh both mentally and physically uh following the effort?
SPEAKER_00:Um it's been like I had a I kind of had to take a forced couple weeks. I mean, one week seems pretty typical in my experience, and then last week just was pretty uh it just like didn't feel good, so I took a step back, you know, from training. Just did a bunch of walking, kind of getting back into strength. And now, yeah, it's sort of so slowly slowly but surely, but uh yeah, it's been it's been pretty rough, honestly. Not so much mentally, but just yeah, just the legs are uh not really responding. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And we could talk about contributors to that as we uh kind of talk about the effort and break it down. Um mentally though, like how do you feel on this one versus in 2023? Like, does it feel any different?
SPEAKER_00:Um, that's kind of it. I mean, that's a pretty interesting question because uh like I I kind of got probably I mean, I got some media attention for both. I don't know if one was more or less, but the first time was really the first, I mean, two years ago is one of really the first time I got any sort of media attention, which did actually have more of a impact mentally than than I kind of anticipated. So, and I had more on my plate coming up later that year. I ended up doing like I ended up racing UTMB, didn't go well, and then I did all these FKTs and I was like driving around everywhere, and it was kind of hectic. So this time it's nice to like just uh relax and like reflect. And yeah, I I think it's been a lot easier, it's been a lot more positive this year, I think.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Talk about the media attention this time around. We'll get into the circumstances, I think, around it. But there was a good Trailrunner article written. I know Abby went into depth on some stuff. Um, just the circumstances I feel like were different from this one. Like, I I don't want to peg it as like a David vs Goliath story, but the only reason I'll say like the David Gliot, literally David vs. Goliath, it was just kind of funny because your name's David, uh, put nintendo there, but like in the sense where like you know, there's this big brand of the Solomon involved, and like Strava is like talking about Nolans now, and it's like on Instagram everywhere. And then good old David Hedges, who is this like salt of the earth human who like puts everything into this, not no no not flashy, not big sponsors, not this, not that, just a dude that works really hard, shows up and takes some time off the record. Like that to me is like the the hero's kind of story. Like, I like following that. I don't know where I'm going with that, but what do you think of that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, that was that was part of my motivation. I thought that was like a cool I mean, it was inspiring, it was a cool storyline as well. And I just I like you know, I I believed I was not like I wasn't reaching to go do it. Like I I was pretty damn sure I could if I you know cleared the rest of my schedule and was just like I'm gonna train my ass off for all of August, you know, for six weeks and really study the splits and like get a good crew, like I could do it. Um, I mean, yeah, I did think like I mean, you know, like Francois had like four YouTube or no, six YouTube videos, like pro produced the whole thing, like I think 20 sponsored posts. And it was just like I I can't even relate. Like, I don't even know how you go somewhere like with an RV and like don't you know go don't go into town and and like do this project. And I don't know. I mean it's I mean he nailed it. And yeah, but it was definitely like motivating that like okay, well you don't need all that, like that's all super superfluous, like it's completely unnecessary. Um like I I think like us Coloradans and New Mexican Rocky Mountain people can totally uh like hold our own against the Euros, at least in our backyard. So I thought that was cool. I mean I didn't I didn't get like the I didn't get any of the international media stuff that he did. That was also that's also the other it's like it's not just the the resources you have to like nowadays in the sport, it's not just that you know, if you're super sponsored pro guy, it's not just that you have resources to go do a thing more effectively or easily more easily, but you also get the PR machine, you know, if you care about those things. So I mean he got it. Was like if you like Google his name and the effort, like it's in dozens of papers all over and stuff. I mean, look at Killian right now, it's yeah, it's everywhere, it's exploded. Like every couple days, there's a whole new thing and like a non-running publication about, you know, so I obviously don't have a PR person or nothing like that. So yeah, but I mean Iron Far and Trail Runner or um not trailer, but outside run. Uh Abby picked up on it, and yeah, it was cool. And uh Finn. So I love it.
SPEAKER_02:Let's dive into it a little bit. Going like this might be a hard question to answer, but with the effort coming about, you said to me the last time we chatted um that it would take someone to break the record, and then even then, you were like, All right, it would take someone to break the record for me to go back and do it. And you seemed um, I don't I don't want to say hesitant at that time, but more like, oh, there might be other things I want to do. Obviously, the record gets broken. Did that change your why? Was your why different this time around, or was it still I just want to test myself against these mountains, or was it more I'm gonna break this damn record? Like, how uh how was your approach on this?
SPEAKER_00:Um, yeah, it became about the record. I mean, because so two years ago, like I didn't so like uh Francois, I think, broke it in on July 4th. Yeah. And at first I because people were asking me about it, and at first I just was like, well, I mean, two years ago I didn't even have splits of mind at all. I did like two-thirds of it so well, I did yeah, like two-thirds of it solo. And uh and I like had the experience I wanted to have, and I like really appreciated that. So at first I thought like, well, I don't really need to. I think I've you know had had what I got what I was looking for, so I'm not sure if I really care about the record, but pretty soon just getting back into the mountains in like um July back here in New Mexico, uh I just was like, I was just really enjoying it. So I figured I'd head up, test the waters a little bit for like a week, do like a 40 something thousand foot week, and just see how camping up high was feeling again. And it felt it all went well. I like was camping with with a friend and did a little bit of climbing. And anyways, yeah, I was just like, okay, I just like really committed, I think like August 2nd or something. Uh so it took a bit to really, but yeah, I guess I got pretty competitive about it. Um at the same time, what I did differently this year was I did some scouting because there were a few line innovations I wanted to check out. Um, but mostly I kind of used an excuse to go like I, you know, spent some time in Lake City or like I helped out at high five a little bit and San Juan Softy. So I kind of like I realized I didn't need to, I didn't have to go like totally obsessed on the lines like I did last time, which was fun, but I figured I still had a memorized, it wasn't that complicated. So it was a good excuse to just check out some other 14ers or 13ers, and uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:This year was a little bit different too with weather. The the time that you pick to run it in, obviously, there was uh if I remember your read up correctly, like the descents were not so straightforward and easy because there was a lot more snow and ice, stuff you couldn't bomb like you normally would have been able to. You probably could have gone significantly faster then. Would you would you agree with that? I don't want to say significantly faster, but there's definitely more time, you think, there. Would it would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, arguably, arguably, if like my whole like if my fueling went perfectly and there wasn't snow, it could have been an hour or two. So yeah. On the other hand, it wouldn't have been exciting or as pretty. I mean, I also had I think it was uh 11 half hours of night of dark, you know, of uh running in at night, like last light to first light. So that's pretty significant. I mean, that's four hours more than early July when I did it last time. Uh so yeah, there's kind of a lot of things. It was a lot more epic this time, that's for sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Was there lower lows than the previous time? Like, were you more in your head at all? More like I should be running faster, like looking at splits or anything like that, like, or were you able to just kind of focus?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think actually last so last time part of the reason why I wanted to come back was because I may have mentioned this on the last podcast, but uh I ended up through a series of unfortunate events, had to do 2023's attempt on the hottest ever day in Leadville. And you know, I mean the whole thing is above 10,000 feet, it drops to like 98.5 uh between Princeton and Yale. And Princeton is incredibly exposed. Like that whole ridge, you know, I'm sure you know, like is it's like a mile and a half ridge, all south face south exposure, and there's you know no water at all. Um, and I think I hit that at probably you know midday, like full sun. So two years ago I got and I didn't take enough water in Alpine. So I got incredibly cooked on Princeton, and it took hours to recover from the dehydration. So, in a way, that was way harder. And way, I mean, that was a bigger low. Both both years, I definitely had a thing where I was like, I didn't I didn't dwell in it, like it wasn't I wasn't like super pleased, but I wasn't considering like bailing or anything. I was like just very focused, and there's so much distance and time and variables to make or up or you know, gain or lose time that um it wasn't that stressful, but yeah. I mean, this time I, you know, I was shivering like super windy, up high, really cold. And that was frustrating, you know, just like, oh my god, I'm I'm burning extra calories to not shiver. That's like extremely wasteful, you know, at at between midnight and 3 a.m. or something like this. Is so I didn't really have ultra like the classic low points in either of the attempts, but I I think actually two years ago it was if there was like an acute low point, it was lower than this time. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Wow. I so you would probably take you would take the shivering over the the dehydration then. And it's what it sounds like okay, fair enough. Yeah, yeah. I think I would too. It's hard to say. I mean, like, I don't know, you're right up on Strava was really beautiful. Like, I and I was you try to picture like these peaks and and traversing these peaks and you know, with snow on them and just the backdrop with the aspens and everything. It's so it's gotta be so gorgeous.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was incredible. It was honestly like the most beautiful sort of uh setting to do anything, um, especially that first day, like going up Princeton, it was insane. It was so nice, like uh because you know, most of the snow was still intact down to whatever it was 13 13 1 or something. So uh yeah. I mean I I really yeah, like it didn't go perfectly, but uh I can't like I can't complain, like you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Let's uh pivot a little bit. I want to talk to you about your uh just the the group of people you put together, like just some amazing humans between Noah Williams, Morgan Elliott, uh I know Aaron Tun was there. Like there was quite a few people like in your corner, man, and like really rooting for you, like wanting you to do this. I mean, they had like a little at the end, it was really cool. There was like a little uh finish line, like a little finish line tape for you to break. And I don't know, it's just like it seemed very special, like this whole group of Americans like really rallied behind you for you to go break this damn thing. Like, how did you like were people reaching out to you once you put the announcement out, or were you kind of recruiting in the background to try and get some folks out there? Like, how did you assemble this group of people?
SPEAKER_00:Um, it was a bit it was 50-50. Like, well, I also had uh several folks from Santa well from New Mexico come up too. So that was like I didn't ask them directly, but everyone was like super stoked on it down here. So that was like really helpful. I mean, just like you know, very encouraging throughout the whole building. And uh a couple guys came up for the uh from New Mexico too, which you know is not the quickest trip in the world. Um, but it looks like they I mean it was the cool thing too was that like it was I mean, I it seemed like people like legit enjoyed seeing it go down, which was really like gratifying too, because I, you know, I never you know it's because I always assume it's gonna be a burden, basically. I'm sure in some ways it is, but uh but yeah, I mean I I wasn't like asking people to I didn't have pay besides Noah and and Morgan, like I didn't have so that was the last you know, I didn't have like pacer pacers, like no one was doing work for me exactly. Like I was doing all the nav, you know. Um which is how I want, you know, that's how how I think it I honestly think that's how it should be for Nolan's. Like I feel like you should that just gives you that connection where like you know you really have that connection to the route and you should kind of know it and be able to kind of just move through the terrain you really have like invested in. But anyways, yeah, so I had a bunch of folks come out. I think I like wrote on Instagram, like just asking if anyone was free, so that a couple people wrote reached out from that, and then I I directly asked a few others, and uh yeah, it seemed to all work out pretty well. Um, I mean it was quite a lot to handle logistically, and then the big thing is that I only got the go-ahead from the park ranger, I mean from the forest ranger on uh Monday. So, and I was initially gonna start on Saturday.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So that so I didn't really so then I put my spreadsheet together, like everything was because we even like discussed when I would go through the area. Um which in the end didn't seem to matter all that much, but I just to be kosher. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Let's talk about that. Um, let's let's let's put hit the brakes and get into that. So um what was it? It was La Plata that trail was technically closed, correct? And you had worked, yeah. Talk talk about how you had worked with uh kind of the local forest service to kind of get that figured out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so the story is uh in so I did that effort on uh September 14th or so, something like that. Yeah. And like the last week of August, I think August 22nd, uh the park officially, I mean the Forest Service, sorry, not the park, officially closed the entire north aspect of Plata, like all slopes, because a camper had not put out their campfire and they had like left their bait pen and all the shit in the classic. And it, you know, it like it started a pretty small forest fire. We locked out with the monsoons like really kicked in hard right like the next day, pretty much, or like two days later, but it still was I think 125 acres max, which is something. I mean, the Forest Service brought out I think 45 people to uh uh fire personnel to work on it because it was in such a sensitive area between you know, right on the um uh independence pass road there, and uh, you know, there's some private property and and right on the you know, one of the most popular trails in the state. So they just provision, you know, they just closed it, like no access at all. They didn't want anyone interfering with fire operations, and they didn't want anyone to get hurt basically. So I like got really stressed out because I was like starting to put this together and like really counting on I trained so hard, and so I was just like trying to email and call any contact I could possibly find. And I knew it might take weeks for them to even see anything like that. But luckily, the ranger in Leadville, um, the uh district ranger was like really, really sympathetic, like really helpful and understanding. And he didn't make any promises at first, because we you just can't tell what the weather basically was like, okay, if there's zero chance the fire is going to spread and the fire personnel basically clear out, then you're good to go. But that's like really hinges on all you know the weather being getting a lot of rain, like etc. etc. Not that you know, not windy. So meanwhile, like I know some other people were interested in doing Nolans, and as far as I know, no one actually reached out. Obviously, I I don't know for sure, I didn't ask, but a lot of people just kind of gave up or did something else. Then Killian climbed, he he did Elbert and Massive, then went and did the Elks, then came back over and went up Ellingwood Ridge, yeah, and with like the Koros guy and stuff, and was like there was a fire closure, so we had to take an uh alternate route and go up Ellingwood. Well, if he had bothered to look at the map, uh that was also closed, so they all broke technically. Yeah, so anyways, I I feel like I just like didn't want any sort of controversy. So I got I got permission. He was like, Well, you'll have like a four or five day lead time. Do you think that's enough to put everything together? I'm like, Yeah, it's gonna have to be enough. And so in the end, that's yeah, I got like a five-day lead time, but then it was so rainy at the end of August and into September. He was like, Um, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna lift the order sooner rather than later, anyways. And then when I called, so then I was so I was gonna start on Saturday, and the weather system that was supposed to move through Thursday, Friday moved uh slowed down. So Saturday was super stormy as well. So I called him again to try to move back 24 hours, and then he said that um that was fine, and also that he was gonna try to lift the order for the weekend. Nice. Uh in the end, they didn't quite manage to do that, and they ended up so I passed through Monday at like seven, six thirty, and they lifted the order on Tuesday.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, it was all it was kind of like dramatic. I mean, it's obviously it's just like this small section in the grand scheme of things, and it wasn't exactly like dangerous or like crazy or anything, but you know, it was another wrench in the equation and uh something else to figure out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, and I think it's really I think not just the audience, but I think fans of yours and just folks in the in the space in general can really appreciate the fact that like I don't know, I think there's something very important about reaching out and you know trying to work with the local groups to make sure that like that's all kosher and it's all good to go. And like I don't know, you just you it you did the right thing, and I think that was very important and definitely says a lot about character and just the whole thing. So it's it's it's pretty cool stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I think I think anyone in my situation would be frustrated, I guess, but not everyone would take the time to like you know leave nice voicemails and like emails and stuff. I mean, it was yeah, I don't know. It's it's not rocket science, but I think obviously, I mean uh the other thing was like Lake County, where Bloodville is, you know, has I I studied uh I got a degree in regional planning and um and Lake County has their board of commissioners meeting, you know, a couple times a week, and they all they put it on YouTube. Obviously, no one watches it, so but like you know, like the two hour. But I found the meeting where the forest service and the fire personnel presented, and you know, these guys put guys and girls put like incredible amount of effort into these things, you know, it's it's their job, but it's also they really care. And so I watched the whole thing and like took notes and like brought it up with the ranger, and I think that went a long way because uh, you know, it's I think a lot of these like public service don't, you know, they work so hard and they get no recognition at all. So the fact that I like pay took any amount of time to like hear them out, you know, and hear what they were actually doing on the ground, like not just assume not just assume the fire was like no big deal, yeah, but like actually like figure out what the situation was. I think, yeah, I'm I'm you know, I think that that definitely went a long way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, like I said, it's it's one of those things. I don't know, one of the best quotes I ever heard from Anton was like, he just is very he said to me on the Mumidara pod, like just about really respecting people that like really fall in love with the zone and do everything they possibly can to learn every aspect about it. And like one of the small little things is you know, uh, you know, watching the you know, watching that meeting and learning more about like what's going on with their fire mitigation and like the just that little thing alone like goes a long way, you know. I don't know. So I I think it's kind of dope.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, I mean it's it's I like all the events recently. It's so easy to take for granted that this is just like forest land and like it's protected, but just there, just sitting there. But no, it's like no, like thousands of people are spending their entire career like managing these lands for us, yeah. Like for no financial, you know, probably taking pay cuts from other things they could be doing. And so yeah, it's I think it's it's worth it at least like you know, having some gratitude and like respect. So no, I agree.
SPEAKER_02:Let's uh let's pivot back. I do want to get back to the crew aspect. We talked a little bit about Morgan Noah and just the group on the ground kind of putting things together as well as you know the group from Mac New Mexico. Uh, I know Morgan paced you for some of the sections where you got super cold. Can you can you talk about that? Like you were did you borrow clothes from him too? Like, how did you how did that situation go down?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm so I made a huge mistake on my spreadsheet, basically underestimating how much I needed to eat. And then I got I was getting like real nauseous just trying to chew anything, just from like a throat fatigue or something thing. Uh so there was that. So I I also bummed a lot of food off of him. But yeah, also I I mean I camped beneath Shavano at Angel Shavano or sorry at blanks on Saturday night and when when it was snowing, and I got there probably like 5 30. So I honestly had no idea how snowy it was. And it was like the classic first day of fall, like of real fall weather where we'd all just be in t-shirts like after dark, no big deal. Like just you don't really think about it, you know, that it's gonna be 15 miles, 15 degrees windshield uh uh on the ridges, and uh so and I was just like so there were so many crew people to manage logistically that I was just like pretty overwhelmed with getting all my shit together on just before starting. So basically all I had to do was like get my buddy uh my puffy jacket and like some pants, but I just didn't I just didn't do that. So yeah, I had to bump all this clothes off. Noah I mean sorry, off Morgan. Um which uh yeah which he was super nice about um i mean he gets cold too you know so he was prepared and luckily we were able to time it like with the tracker so he wasn't luckily he didn't have to spend an hour or two up on oxford he got there like 10 minutes before uh so then we like just kind of tried to book it um as soon as we met linked up i like i put on like his extra uh windbreaker and like maybe gloves hand warmers for sure that was huge yeah it was that cold it was because it was just super windy from the west yeah so like going up oxford and columbia especially earlier in the night columbia but uh yeah oxford was just like so it was like 40 mile per hour winds you know just freezing yeah and you just couldn't hide um for the entire climb above tree line um yeah so then we we carried over you know oxford belfou went uh down so yeah that that scree slope in Missouri was probably like the best case where it's like every time I've been up there in the summer it's it's bomber it's like the best scree in the saw watch for sure nobody know exactly what you're talking about yeah yeah that that's a cool section such a cool section so nice and all the little scree was frozen together like for the entire scree slope so it was super treacherous because there's still some big big guys like falling down on us but all the little ones wouldn't budge so we were just like you know barely just trying to like stay upright and um yeah it was just like kind of like one thing after the other same with Huron like Huron that trail was just iced over like the trail part the off trail part just pretty treacherous um I mean arguably that's makes lets you save your legs I don't know that's true uh yeah but yeah and then we like I don't know I had some like I had some of his beta gels the ones that the at cis gels that like are like you should only take two of these a day or something and um I like really rallied so it was huge like between the hand warmers and his company and uh some like synthetic sugar and whatever the hell else they put in there um I like really turned the corner so we like booked it we like really ran hard to Winfield and that was kind of like when I because I I was quite behind when I but by the time I saw um Morgan I'm not at least an hour I think so it was basically as soon as I saw him we started making up time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah and that was like between midnight and five six or something oh wow you so you got behind pretty I mean you said you had an hour obviously you finished 10 minutes uh about what a little bit more than 10 minutes ahead of him or ahead of the record what um you were I don't know it's it was hard for me because when I was following like Morgan did a great job of putting up stories of trying to like tell and show where you were and how much time you needed or had like to get the record. Like when did you start gaining time on on Francois?
SPEAKER_00:At what point did you start to realize that you put it away oh yeah I didn't realize I so okay so I started strong actually even though that was like the snowiest bit the first three um but I was I was up on him I was probably five to ten minutes up on him after on Antera which I was super stoked on because I was just feeling really good. And like it was one of those like you know when you're you're kind of in race mode the the ankle deep snow doesn't necessarily slow you down too much. So um at least like psychologically so I was doing good there and then I think I started getting behind already on Princeton and kind of started hemorrhaging from Princeton onwards like through the first part of the night. So Yale. So it was Princeton Yale. It's actually interesting so Princeton for everyone who's ever done Nolan's is like truly make or break yeah for I there's no like I mean the the first part of the descent is like really annoying and kind of treacherous. Like you could actually quite easily like break your leg. Not that I don't think anyone's I know someone like broke their ankle on Tab watch once but uh anyways yeah it's always like make or break like people usually have rough time on Princeton and I I actually think that Francois ironically hammered it too hard because that's the only reason I can think why he ended up slowing down by the time he got to like you're on La Plata. Because so going in Francois I I knew that I'd seen also Justin Simone I'm not sure if you know Justin. Yeah yeah yeah he I don't I don't know him super well but he um he was like making all these data graphs with like all the data he could find on people who've done Nolans and their pacing progressions. So it turns out that Francois had made up all this time on my previous record from basically sort of Princeton and Yale. Yeah like Princeton through to Oxford. Interesting and then by Laplada he slowed down to my pace completely and by and I had slowed down to Joey Camp space. Okay. So we all like regressed but the question is why he slowed down that much I don't know I guess you'd have to ask him yeah but so yeah so I like was moving okay Princeton Yale Columbia Harvard traverse but it was I was kind of just like a little bit behind behind and then I hit a real low spot descending Harvard going up Oxford kind of like what I was talking about. And Harvard was kind of annoying because it's that's like this pure north south ridge and um and I did the Columbia Harvard traverse which is like a little spicy but the Harvard descent specifically had like really deep snow drifts. So then I really I think that's when I I think I lost like 30 and then I made a huge mistake on the very bottom part of Oxford and Pine Creek was like a full on lake because of all the rain swamp so it was like cold I had to wade through like a quarter mile of bullshit swamp and willows and and and for the river I couldn't find a bridge over the river. So it was just like so terrible and so I think I just lost like 30 minutes immediately. Gotcha in between Harvard Columb uh Oxford so I so in other words I didn't get behind too bad or anything through the first half of the run but it was really that crux Harvard to Oxford and then and then I kind of slowly but surely started making it up making up and then once I I ended up missing my crew in Winfield just by like a unfortunate accident. So I was like truly depleted going off Laplada because I just I like hadn't had sodium for nine hours uh because I'd messed up and then missed up all the stuff. Anyways yeah I was really depleted and getting like really frustrated but I think I kind of like held on so then when I finally was able to down like a ton of just carbs in uh when I saw my crew at you know before heading up Elbert uh Noah picked me up and I think we we gained we basically started to match him so by the time we got to top of Elbert we were nine minutes back.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Um which I don't think Noah actually told me exactly but he he did know that and then we like we actually nailed the descent off Elbert too which is kind of saying a lot because it's a little it's it can be pretty cruxy that late in the day but we find found like an amazing line and then and then I really struggled on the massive climb. So we were nine minutes behind Francois again on the top of massive oh my god dude that that's crazy so in other words we yeah we we didn't know I had it in the bag until like two miles to go at best.
SPEAKER_02:Wow so photo finish then it was basically a photo finish and I didn't have any confidence that I'd be able to really run the pipeline or whatever that trail's called to the fish hatchery I mean the CT and then it becomes uh maybe it's just a fish hatchery trail but uh yeah I just had no I couldn't predict like if I'd be able to stride out but like yeah eventually I was able to and we're just yeah just kind of like yeah counting minutes basically found it within you that's not I also couldn't think of a better besides Morgan Morgan's amazing but like I couldn't also think of a better person to have for those last two mountains besides Noah who knows those mountains so well um literally living like right there like that's a good that's a good and he's so fast so that's a good person to have it's not bad right there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah because you can mess up massive really easily yeah and yeah and massive is like his jam like that's his that's his backyard that's like exact he knows like every inch of it so skiing and running and everything. Yeah so yeah it was like incredibly clutch and also he was like really nice about it too so you know until it became like really crunch time.
SPEAKER_02:Uh did he push you at all?
SPEAKER_00:Like he did he like let you know like hey we gotta we we gotta fucking go like this is this is yeah yeah yeah like as soon as we summit it because he I think he realized that there wasn't much he could do to push me along on the climb. It was just going to be a slog. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because I mean I was I was eating and drink I was drinking carbs as much as I could um and it did get pretty warm by then but uh yeah so but as soon as we summoned he's like okay it's it's it's fucking go time like we're it's this is like your last chance so damn dude that's so crazy how close it came um one pivot back to Columbia Harvard you said in it was in your write up that this time around and you said this before you took the Columbia Harvard traverse you didn't do that in 2023 correct no no no no do you think it was a better move to take the Columbia Harvard traverse this time or I mean ideally okay say you're doing it in July and there's no snow and you're good on water like you didn't just get super thirsty and you get there at like 7 30 so you do the whole thing at you know before sun before dark yeah then 100% it's a good idea I think the reason I did I went low last time around was because uh I was I wasn't actually solo for that no I wasn't I was with Henry Harris okay but since it was so hot there is a creek Frenchman's creek I believe in that basin there um but it adds like so we filled up a bunch of water um but it does add like 500 feet ish avert and like I mean the boulders aren't that bad but it's also not that much better than like not that much easier than just doing the traverse so I think two years ago including the water fill up I did from Columbia to Harvard I think I ran like 150 Francois ran like 135 going low.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And I don't know I don't actually know what I did this time because it was all it was all at night like it was all and like pretty icy that's what I was gonna ask like that's the reason I was getting to it I'm like dude there it had to have been super icy up there yeah luckily it it could have been way worse for sure but yeah I don't know why I mean because it's all above 13 so I don't know why uh it wasn't as bad as the you know some of the summit areas but yeah you mostly mostly the snow wasn't too the ice wasn't too much of a factor but uh in training I had split like 111 not pushing at all so I was actually really jazzed on that because I was like well it was like at least 20 minutes easy free time just because of a better line so but that was part of the thing that uh kind of bugged me about Francois's attempt is that like I studied it and then like some friends of mine who were really nerds about this studied it and he stuck to my lines in the Alpine like like exactly even when it wasn't necessary at all used your GPX file then more or less yeah and he's sponsored by Suto. So not only did he use my GPX file but he had a pacer with him at all times. And they used my GPX file. So he didn't do any navigation and he stuck to my lines which was like an amalgamation of Joey's lines Andrea and just whatever I'd figured out personally. But in other words like so he had just taken for granted that I had done the perfect crap but that's not necessarily true you know I mean like you know within a little tiny here and there like like for instance Yeah like he was exact he like didn't deviate a single foot from my 2023 lines and it was like not there's a you know unlimited number of kind of ways you could go off Yale so I mean just through the just through the airline air airplane gully so uh yeah it was kind of ridiculous but yeah but that was kind of the only instance where I sort of got them on the route because I was looking at other ones but to be honest they're all pretty much that they were all slower all the better all the innovation all the potential changes. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02:What did you think and this is not shade I'm just curious like well what was up with the whole the sticker the whole sticker thing at the top of every mountain or like the patches or whatever like on social media. Did you see that like that he was doing I'm like what what is this?
SPEAKER_00:No I think I missed that.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I was like what are we doing here?
SPEAKER_02:Uh it was weird. I don't know. I was just like dude you just lost so much time just waste like wasting the amount of time to just like put up the patch and like take a photo with this patch of the the peak's name on it and then the put it I don't know anyway it's it's a different conversation. But um do you think he's did he spend a ton of time like scouting then is that like that's the the big question like obviously he probably he definitely scouted it. I know probably did it like a nice chunk if not the whole thing but like you one of the things I just really respected about you is like you bathed in its streams, you slept in its soil like you did everything you possibly could to learn everything what it seems like learn about this thing. Which shows this is why you got the record.
SPEAKER_00:Do you know if he like how much like scouting he did or like what the deal is um I so it looks like he did about two weeks of scouting and the way he did it which was interesting was he did like I think it might have been just under two weeks like maybe 10 days but he did like three 30 you know 50k runs and then like some easy shakeouts.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Who knows if he posts everything I have no idea.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah but uh and he was like in a gigantic RV with uh the other guys in the matching outfits so which it seems like they were in matching outfits the entire trip too which is even more funny like it wasn't just the it wasn't just the attempt uh the whole time yeah I mean I like I said I'm not trying to pile on Francois but there was some funny things that they did that are like what are you guys doing like uh I don't know I just and I don't want to come off as like uh an asshole but like I think the thing that you and I think you pick up on this too and you feel very similarly is like this line is like really important to the people in Colorado and like just one of the this FKT in general and the way you go about it is entirely the like everything. It's really important. And I don't know do you feel the same way?
SPEAKER_00:Like the way they went about it was just different than the way maybe someone like you or others would have approached it maybe Joey Campanelli uh and others of the past yeah I mean yeah I'm trying not to yeah like I don't honestly want to like throw huge shade because no no no no no the sport's changing and I like I totally get it. Like I don't blame him at all. Maybe I'd have different feelings if I missed it. But um I mean Joey Camps like told me like he he had seen all these like speedsters I think he called them like you know pro trail runner dudes American trailrunner dudes try Nolan's and he would just thought it was a joke because they like didn't respect how hard the route was and didn't put the work in but like a huge compliment last time around was that he was like well you were one of the only like runner runners to really put the work in and I I like really appreciated that and I mean I mean like look Francois I mean who knows what the finance situation look like he wanted to Nolan's he had heard about it he had known people going way back who had tried it and he had had this on his bucket list and you know I mean he got all this custom gear from Solomon to do it which was kind of nuts but you know he he carved out two or three weeks in his schedule to go do it. So that I mean that's pretty cool. That shows like that Colorado's legit I mean he did he never said it was hard anywhere online uh which is like the classic Euro thing. I mean Killian did you know Killian did the last 12 peaks in like 48 hours or 50 hours or something and all he said was like I was very surprised to see that Nolan's was at least 50% off trail. I'm like you know you could just say it's hard like it like what's the big deal like yeah okay there's no there's like pretty much no fifth class scrambling like great but um like it's a legit burly route like it's it's fine. But I mean yeah I mean I I think that's the cool thing though still like in our sport it's cool that like okay Francois can have huge budget and like custom gear shoes literally molded to his foot you know and then customized for Nolan's and and matching French guys leading the way but um but uh like he's the greatest hundred mile mountain runner of all time and I was able to break his record because I was you know not because I'm a better athlete but just because I put the time in. Yeah. So I think that's cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah it says a lot about hard work. So no I'm just really appreciative that that you went after it and you went and got it. I I gotta I don't want to shift gears too much but I do I have do have other questions outside of Nolans that I do want to get to before time is up. Um but as we close this one out I just want to ask you like if like like it's it's truly legitimized Nolans in a lot of ways like and there's definitely time to be found for you. Like do you think you'll go back and do it again next year or are you going to wait for someone else to try and do it again?
SPEAKER_00:Oh I won't do it next year no way. No I mean yeah it's interesting because I kind of I kind of screwed myself over by doing Nolan's and whirl kind of like this I mean I've been at it for I've been I feel like I'm deep into my career but I guess I still have hopefully some good you know 10 15 years left but and but I only say I screw myself over because those are like kind of like two of the most legit competitive alpine routes there is there are uh so there are other ones to I'm for sure I'd like to go but it's like I don't I'm not necessarily like looking at the map in Colorado being like I want to devote six weeks preparing for anything else again. But I think that's healthy. I don't know I mean there's other things that I'm inspired to do. But uh yeah I don't I don't think I'll go back I mean you know one of the other motivations for doing this just like in the same theme of like you know locals can still crush is that everyone online commenting all these people commenting on the Francois effort was like oh no now you'll never be able to like you know paraphrasing obviously but you know now you'll never be able to be like a an amateur and go do Nolan's for time for the record. And so I guess in some ways I sort of proved that wrong but at the same time I don't think just like it's gonna be pretty damn hard for someone who's just like really eager to be like I'm gonna target Nolan's next year and take a crack. Like I don't know if you saw Seth Damore did it. He did all these YouTube videos about his attempt I mean he's attempted multiple times I mean he's literally from T B not that he's a long distance guy but he like he didn't make it past Princeton. Yeah and he's super fast. So all I am saying is that it doesn't you can't just be like a speed like a you know you can't just be like a up and coming guy and like just want to break this record like it's gonna so I think I it probably will stand for longer than uh two years this time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I think you're right dude I mean if it took Francois who's are like like we said arguably the greatest 100 mile mountain runner of all time if not top three if it took like him to come over and do it to break it and not break it by a ton and then for you to lower it like yeah it might stick around for a bit unless the only thing that would be is if KJ came came and tried to give a crack at it. But even then I mean who's to say he would do it you know it's anybody could have a bad go you know so I'm pretty sure he would do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah I mean who knows or Anton if he strings together some good spring.
SPEAKER_02:I would love to see Anton it would be cool. Yeah that's like the the prophecy fulfilled kind of stuff there kind of yeah like however 12 years later 13 years later something yeah yeah uh I want to pivot really quick I want to talk um I know you guys like planned it but I know it didn't come through we can cut this if if you don't want to talk about it but like I'm just so curious um Jackson's a friend of mine and a team on Unsportiva I know you guys have planned the high route in like the Pacific Northwest uh with Michael Wirth like what what uh did you guys how how much work did you put into that did you guys try it at all like what what what came through of that Jackson like laughed it off to me when I asked about him and didn't go into detail so I was just so curious.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah I there were a lot of different things first of all I bailed I didn't even go out I like made it to Salt Lake because I so I had lined up at Valderon in like July 3rd or something and they last minute changed the course to like a lame ass course and I was like really anyways I I made it 80 miles and I was just like super over it. You know it was just like running in the valley like doing different loops around instead of because the course is supposed to be like awesome like way up in the Pyrenees. Yeah um and I like I had really that was kind of my focus anyways long story short that didn't go well I had like a ridiculous crate travel situation because I was trying to make it to northern Washington like a coup you know within a week of that and so the flights and the driving and anyway so I bailed it I bailed before even getting there and then just some unfortunate shit went down up there and I think they let it not in the end Mike was going to do it solo and then he had some other like ridiculous bear like literally a bear attack so I gotta get Michael worth on the yeah yeah you should yeah um so I don't know I guess it wasn't meant to be this year uh but personally I I bet I didn't even get there.
SPEAKER_02:So do you think it could be the reason I ask is because I would love to see I I had kind of floated the idea of Jacks to Jackson before of like if and when you guys do this like I want to have three the three of you on the podcast to chat about this because it's such an epic route. Do you think there's a possibility for in in the following years of you guys given given another go at it possibly or giving ego at it together yeah I don't know I think it's kind of unlikely at this point uh but it's possible I I mean it just like it's a lot I mean I live in New Mexico there's no glaciers you know it's true.
SPEAKER_00:Um but also I mean you know Jackson's super ambitious on the racing scene I I have some other plans and it's just uh it just like I it's I think a lot I'm I'm sure a lot of run like super ambitious runners have totally over over been too ambitious basically and then like realize that you can't just do everything. Yeah you know I mean there's a time like at some point hopefully like I would love to but uh I don't I don't know about next year. Also the conditions are it just so it's a heinous route.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah yeah that's super cool.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah and I'll and I've heard like it might have been Jackson who told me like the uh documentary that they did with Caitlin and company like didn't even remotely do it justice. Like I heard it's like even way worse than that like 10 times harder which is kind of crazy.
SPEAKER_00:So uh yeah well because they did that well it wasn't that long ago but I don't think they got cool footage. I mean it's a cool documentary but that yeah yeah yeah I don't I don't think they were able to shoot like the you know the teetering edges you know I don't know it's not it's not like that it's not like uh you know like you're gonna die or I mean it's not that crazy but at the same time but yeah they didn't there's no I don't they don't really document like the um you know uh head deep bushwhacking and the and the weird rock and all that so nice all right man so what's uh I you I know you're probably gonna transition to skis in the next few months I know you've got uh obviously there's always uphill and stuff like that not too far from you what do you got planned for next year we're what's on the target um yeah well actually for the rest of this year I'm kind of thinking I might meet up with Mike for Tonto Trail that'd be cool kind of want to do the LaSalle traverse in October November and uh then I'm gonna wrap with Scar hopefully okay so that would be if I can pull that off that would be two premiere routes within three months which I don't know if that means anything but it would be cool. It's pretty epic. Yeah because I I spent a lot of time I mean I spent like nine months in Asheville so and I I'm gonna head back for for other reasons to the southeast for other reasons so uh I figured I might just give it a go. So that's been cool because you know that that's kind of a lot between like 10 and 15% grade on the AT there and the smokies. Yeah and it'll and it'll be icy for sure so uh but it's it's a nice like okay I'm gonna just like shift my training focus so it's quite refreshing. And then I'm hopefully I'm gonna try to do some like if I'm kind of I don't know I I'm kind of looking for funding to see if I can go to like Akin Gagua.
SPEAKER_01:That'd be sick.
SPEAKER_00:Oh shit because I just want to you know that's like the it's 23,000 feet tallest peak outside the Himalaya and the the um standard base camp route is I think pretty clearly the most competitive big mountain FKT in the world for running anyways on foot. And I just want to see if I can hang with those guys with Killian Carl and Tyler Andrews. Yeah and so if I can get a trip lined up which is definitely seems like a long shot at this point but if it's possible just like the training you know because basically it's a really long gradual approach and then it's just very vertical but not very technical. So it's really a fitness test. So you gotta like you got to be able to run run between like 10 and 1600 feet. Shit.
SPEAKER_02:So you got to spend a lot of time out there preparing for something like that more or less or I mean sleep up here at the resort at Ski Santa Fe do some uphill intervals like treadmill I don't know just get like real nerdy about it. How high is that it's like uh is it like 11,000 feet 1000 feet for you or uh the resort's at 10 3 so that's not bad.
SPEAKER_00:That's not bad at all. Yeah no you could do Leadville for it Leadville's only four and a half hours away or something so dude you could get very nerdy about it like I love how Jack nerds out about this shit.
SPEAKER_02:Like he gets so into the weeds about it. So like that yeah it's it's really fun to follow that stuff.
unknown:Yeah
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean that's obviously inspiring from you know his his denali. But there's fewer but it's even more of a pure fitness test because you have to run down too. So can you can you climb 13,000 feet in 20 miles and then bomb down the steep stuff and then hold on for the last 10, 12 miles? That's like that's like a crazy, you know. Yeah. I don't know. It would be cool, a cool project. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, I definitely agree. Anything from the racing scene that eyes you up for next year, probably not. Probably more FKTs.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I want to go back to Trophy Okima. Yeah, that's why I was floating. Kind of the idea of that. That's such a cool race. I mean, just I want to chop like 20, 30 minutes off, see where that puts me. I think that would be fun. Yeah. But that's you know, that's like very explosive, so it's totally different than any of the stuff I really have been doing recently.
SPEAKER_02:Um, it would have to be a completely different block, I guess. Like it depends on when you would kind of do Aconcagua, like how to space that out. And I don't even what is the season for that? Like, is that South America?
SPEAKER_00:You would do that, like Yeah, it's late November to late February with March as a possibility. Okay. So honestly, not bad, but it's it's coming up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's it's well, if any brands are listening to this or anybody that wants to fund that project, I'll put contact information in the show notes. Let's get this going. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, man, of course, of course. Well, David, uh, dude, thank you so much. I feel like do you think we got everything? Is there anything else you wanted to add for for Nolans? I want to make sure we we told your story properly for this and we got everything.
SPEAKER_00:So uh no, yeah, that's uh that I think that's that's everything.
SPEAKER_02:Sweet. Well, dude, I appreciate it. Uh I can't wait till the next chat, man. You're always a fun conversation to have. Oh, yeah, I was definitely looking forward to the next one, man. Appreciate it. Sick.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02:What'd you guys think? Oh man, what a fun episode. Uh, I gotta thank David so much for coming on and being candid and being open to debriefing this like monumental undertaking that he went through. Just like a complete vision quest of a of an effort. And uh yeah, it's something something most people don't get a chance to do in their lives is go that deep. So definitely gotta give him hats off for uh going to the depths of his soul and pulling something out that he didn't know he had, which is pretty cool. So yeah, big fan of David's guys. The best way you can support him, two different ways. First one, give him a follow on Instagram, D hedges, that's H-E-D-G-E-S, starting with a D underscore. So that's D hedges underscore. Give him a follow on Instagram if you don't already. Uh lots of beautiful mountain landscapes, lots of cool stuff. Second thing is if you're a brand out there listening or someone with benefactor level money and is interesting in supported, interested in supporting David uh on a potential Akankangua uh conquest or FKT that is, uh, you can reach out to him via email or you can find him on Instagram and give him a DM, uh send him a message and let him know if you're interested in helping to support his vision for potential FKT out there, which would be pretty sweet. Um yeah, again, hats off to David and uh what a fun episode. Guys, if you enjoyed this episode, amongst others, the best way you can support us is to um yeah, give us a five-star review. Give us a rating and a review. Let me know why you like the podcast. Or you can also let me know why I don't like it too. But uh give us a five-star rating, rating, and review on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you consume your podcasts. That would be ideal. And very last but not least, um you can support us by also supporting our brand partner, Ultimate Direction. If you hop on over to ultimate direction.com, uh use code Steep Stuff Pod, it's gonna get you 25% off your cart. They just dropped a whole slew of new stuff over the summer, which is pretty dope. Their new race vest six liter, ultra vest 12 liter, they've got a sweet comfort belt as well as an ultra belt. They also have a quiver, so it's gonna get you guys kitted out from head to toe. All good stuff there. So, like I said, code Steep Stuff Pod one word, it's gonna get you 25% off your cart. Guys, thanks so much for tuning in. I really appreciate it and love all of your support. You guys are amazing. Uh, good stuff coming down the pipeline. I've got a sweet episode with Tyler McCanless, debriefing worlds, uh, where Tyler was in the top 26-ish, something like that. Anyway, he helped get the uh the Americans, the gold, or oh god, I wish the gold, uh, the bronze medal uh at Worlds, which is pretty dope. And uh yeah, we talk all about that. And then we've got some other stuff coming out too, along with a um Golden Trail World Series final preview episode uh that's gonna be dropping this week as well. So, guys, thanks so much for tuning in.
