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The Steep Stuff Podcast
World Mountain & Trail Running Championship Recap with Paul Kirsch & Tom Hooper
A month after Canfranc, the dust has settled but the stories still sting—sometimes literally. We sat down with Team USA leaders Paul Kirsch and Tom Hooper to unpack a world championship defined by raw terrain, tight logistics, and athletes who found another gear when it mattered most. If you watched the medals, you saw the headlines. If you listen here, you’ll hear the blueprint.
We start where results are made: planning. Paul and Tom pull back the curtain on selection debates, athlete travel, hotel puzzles, kit approvals, and an aid station operation designed for seconds, not comfort. Imagine three staff crewing a dozen athletes off a single table while frost slicks the rocks, ground wasps erupt near the trail, and two bulls jog past a sunrise checkpoint. That’s the reality of world-level trail—messy, improvised, and relentlessly precise.
From there we dig into racing. The long and short trail routes tilted skyward and technical, but champions like Jim Walmsley and Katie Schide still rose, proving that range and resilience travel across terrain. Hillary Gerardi stepped from VK to 80K to keep the team whole. Short trail newcomers like Jane and Ruby showed composure well beyond their caps. The vertical and classic squads highlighted rising stars—Anna Gibson, Cam Smith—and real team tactics, with athletes working together late to lock in points, cross-country style. Meanwhile, U20 athletes arrived with true mountain chops, signaling a pipeline ready to meet a deeper, more global field that now includes full squads from Uganda and Kenya and breakthrough team medals from nations like Canada.
We also talk about the gap that still holds the sport back: brand buy-in. Many athletes earn no bonuses for worlds and must choose between country and paycheck. With more sponsor support—following models we already see in track and the Olympics—world championships could become the premier stage they deserve to be. South Africa is next, and with the right mix of citizen races, media, and partners, the scene could match the spectacle.
Hit play for a candid, inside look at how Team USA turned chaos into podiums and why the future of mountain and trail running has never looked brighter. If this conversation resonates, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a quick review to help more fans find the show.
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Welcome back to this Deep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Loriello. And today I'm so excited to do a post-worlds debrief. That's right, we're about a month removed from the U.S. uh team going over to Con Frank, Spain to participate in the World Mountain Running Championship. And there's no two people better to do a debrief of that particular set of races than Paul Kirsch and Tom Hooper. Paul Kirsch, the U.S. Mountain and Trail Running Team Lead, who went over to participate and helped the team out at the World Mountain Running Championship along with Tom Hooper, uh liaison for the USATF, as well as the race director of 603 Endurance. It was fun to catch up with both guys. We talked about a lot of the prevailing storylines uh coming out of Con Frank post-worlds. We got into some of the individual performances. We talked a lot about individual races and different things that went down, um, just what it was like operating over there, getting to uh participate in the aid station situation, um, as well as work with the individual athletes was super fun. Um, yeah, I think you guys will enjoy this one. It's a good little debrief of worlds. Like I said, even though we're about a month removed, I think there's a lot of good value here, and I think you'll take a lot away from it. So without further ado, Paul Kirsch and Tom Hooper. Tom Hooper, Paul Kirch. Welcome to the Steep Stuff Cup the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, guys?
SPEAKER_01:Fantastic.
SPEAKER_03:Good. Yeah, excited to have you guys on. I it's been uh I know it's been a really busy summer for the both of you, you know, with all the racing and everything that's gone on, and obviously you're just getting back now and getting settled from uh being out at at the World Mountain Running Championships, just a week week plus removed. Um yeah, guys, maybe maybe I know the audience knows who both of you are, especially those in the know know all know both of you very well, but maybe for the general audience, introduce yourselves and uh maybe talk a little bit about your roles with what you guys did at Worlds this past year.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Tom, do you want to go first so we don't step on each other?
SPEAKER_01:Uh I'm just a glorified water boy, so that's all I do. That's it, that's it. I mean, uh we're you know, we're staff members for Team USA. Uh I'm specifically for the long trail and the short trail, of course. Um yeah, carry bags and get people through aid stations.
SPEAKER_03:Fill Jim Walmsley's water bottles.
SPEAKER_00:That's right, that's right. Well, uh I was gonna say, I'm gonna um I'm gonna embellish a little bit what Tom said there, what he's doing. Um so yeah, we're both part of the team USA staff. I changed from the U-20 manager to the overall team leader this year. Tom has been the trail team leader for the last three worlds. Um, but really honestly, Tom's work starts somewhere around when this world ends. And he's already thinking about how are we going to get the best athletes there in South Africa in two years. Um, and you know, Tom's right. While he's there, he's an aid station junkie, but beforehand, like he's getting a list of, you may have seen it on the live stream, but like he's got the table set out. He's got a sheet of paper with specific instructions for every single athlete on the table because you know, we're crewing for 12 people per race, and you don't want to slow them down. Um, so he's doing all that legwork ahead of time, and then, you know, legwork we're doing, selecting the teams, finding, you know, selection races beforehand, lots of promotion, things like that, and then helping them with travel logistics and all the questions and everything. Pretty much like if I had to sum it down to a single thing, it's we're trying to do everything we can for these athletes. So all they have to do is race. You know, they're not worried about, oh, how do I get a ride to the start? How do what do I do with my clothes when I'm in the call? Uh, I loved Helen Umino Faulkner called the uh call room the 200-meter petting zoo. I love that. But like they had to go in there pretty early. So then they've got closed, they're trying to stay warm, and we're on the sides of that. Or we might be out on the course yelling places to them, depending on what the event is. Uh cheerleaders at the aid station, all those kinds of things is really like what we cover with all of it. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Maybe go into um well, I don't know. We could we could talk more about roles or we can jump more into this year. I mean, I think this year was a very special year for the teams. Obviously, you, you know, third overall team in general, obviously numerous medals across the board. Um we just witnessed, I feel like American Trail and Mountain Running really like step onto the stage this year in a lot of ways, especially in an extremely competitive year. Um, guys, what what are your thoughts? Like, what are your takeaways after this year? Was it excitement? Was it like stoke for the future? Like what's your kind of your closing thoughts from from just especially just being removed? You want to take this? This is me and Tom.
SPEAKER_00:We're gonna stare awkwardly at each other a whole lot of time. Sorry, sorry. I can make it a little no, I'm kidding. Um, yeah, for me, like I've been involved with the team a long time, and it's just striking to me how it's just getting more and more competitive. Like Uganda and Kenya coming with full teams for all the mountain races, including the U-20 races. And just in general, like, you know, Jim won. I think there's a lot of people you could casually ask and say, well, who's gonna win? And everyone's saying, Oh, Wamsley's gonna win. He was pushed by a bunch of people, and you know, he had to raise it to another level to win, which is amazing that he was able to do that. But secondly, um, I just feel like it's becoming a true world champ. 70 plus countries, just it's just at another level, and it keeps getting more and more competitive.
SPEAKER_01:And I think on the I think on the on the you can we can always talk about the winners, but we get to talk about the rest of the teammates that that because of the format and that it's a time format for the long and short trail, to see those guys where maybe they wouldn't have maybe they would have pulled the plug to watch them fight so hard as they're one of us, you know what I mean, when you're when you're out there, like to see them hurting and not being not having the best day, and they are just still crushing it because they know every second counts. I think that's the most impressive thing to see.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's the competition level is crazy. I I want to pivot a little bit and talk about and just kind of get your guys' perspective on just logistically trying to put something like this together and bringing a team out there, right? So obviously, I know you guys brought David Sinclair with you. I just talked to David actually, I just had him on the other day. He's a funny guy. I love David. Um, I know you guys all traveled out there together, but in the early stages of this, when you're trying to put everything together, how are you planning uh roommate selections and the figuring out the food situation and the room situation and all just the logistical stuff? Like how much goes into that? And is it just a one-person job or is it a team-based thing?
SPEAKER_00:I I would say from the point we first select the team back, like the I mean, what was it? Gorge was what April? Um, I would say average 10 hours a week to spend on the side doing things, and it gets busier suddenly when the whole team's selected. But yeah, you're going through trying to figure out are people gonna stay at the team hotel? And you know, finances is always a thing. Um, our funding comes from mostly from USA track and field, but then um ATRA does like its supplements to cover the rest of the funding. Um, so that's a big part of it. It's trying to educate people. There's a bunch of forms they have to fill out, they have to go through background checks and say sport and things like that. So it's really, um, I think I joke with my wife, it's like being ahead of a field trip of 48 adults. Did you get your permission slip sign? Did you do this and everything? And everybody does, but like at the same time, these are all people who are dedicated to doing a lot of training and they may not be thinking to check their email all the time. And so it's really staying on top of that stuff. And then, you know, Tom and Anita are going to dive into looking at the courses. We come up with questions because we can ask questions of like what's really in the required gear bag and things like that. And the athletes will have questions too. Um, so it's really just kind of ongoing because, and then you have some people that uh, oh, I'm going to Europe early. Is there any way I can get my team kit shipped early? And so it's working with USATF. And I can't say enough about Brad Burling there and Rob Mullett, of what they do, just like to jump through hoops of, hey, somebody needs their kit by this day. Can you help get it out there? And you know, overnight the kit to them so they could have it before they went to Europe, stuff like that. And it's really just kind of managing a big giant project.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Very cool. I I got it, I do have a kit question for you guys. I saw the and Tom, you've got one. I I saw you photographed in it. The Nike, I should have had you wear it for the podcast. The dope Nike uh ACG shirt. How did you guys Tom?
SPEAKER_00:I have one too. We both should have worn them. That's our missed opportunity. Yes. All right, all right, 2027.
SPEAKER_03:Um what uh like how did you guys get a hold of those? Was Nike just like willing to uh pass them along for the world's team? Or like how how did that come about?
SPEAKER_00:Tom like started the conversation a couple years ago trying to get it, and we weren't successful two years ago, and then uh literally that stuff was brought by Nike the day before the races. Um, because like it may sound funny, but like you can't just have a shirt with because it's World Athletics, it had two logos on it. So they can't just do the shirt with the two logos, they have to put USA on it, and then we have to submit it. Not us, but USATF has to submit it to be part of the official team kit before it can be accepted. And then, like the shorts, you know, they were able to get shorts with pockets. That's something athletes have been asked for a while. But also there were two logos on those shorts. So they had to make shorts that only had one logo to meet the world athletics stuff. And so honestly, it was uh it was like hope and hope. We knew we were gonna get it, but we didn't have it yet. And so it was really exciting. Like Rob Mullock brought an entire suitcase of shorts with him, and then the shorts showed up uh Dent Worlds at his hotel room, uh, Rob Mullock from USATF.
SPEAKER_03:So cool. And what's the initial reaction of these shirts? Uh are they are they groundbreaking? Are they are they legit? Like, what do you guys think? It's a fashion statement, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's a fashion statement. We all can look like uh Liam Merrill right now.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. That's right. Yeah, he I think he like lives in his dude. I don't think he takes this off. Yeah. Uh Tom, I gotta ask you as far as courses go. Um, I know we've had a lot of extensive conversations leading up to worlds um just in general regarding the different courses, selection races, and things like that. These courses, I would say outside of the vertical and mountain classic, seemed much more sky, like it seemed like the skyrunners shined on them a lot of it, a lot more. They were they were tough, they were rugged, uh, just kind of out there. Like, what was your initial thoughts on these courses?
SPEAKER_01:It it wasn't my initial thought, it was the aftermath that to hear these guys being like, that was way harder than we thought. That I mean, I think this really ate up some of the guys, or some of the athletes. Um, it yeah, I think it was a lot harder than they thought it was gonna be. Yep. Um I'm not a hundred percent sure we we knew the distance, we knew the vert. So it's not either one of those, it's more so the actual terrain that I think that that that got them. Interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Paul, would you would you agree? Was there any takeaways specifically course-wise that you that really stuck out to you?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I remember hearing from some of the athletes that previewed the course, you know, when they were previewing it, there weren't even trail sections in some sections. You know, they're they're running through figuring, well, it's probably gonna go through here. And so I do think that's part of it, kind of like what Tom was saying, is for those races, like they kind of created trail by putting flags across rocks. And, you know, in some cases, I think there was a race two weeks ahead before that. There was a marathon. So I heard from some of the athletes it was good that it worn down the grass in spots. Oh, other side note no one expected ground wasps.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, yeah. We got well. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00:Everybody was stung. Everybody was stung. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like in yeah, I forget who it was was talking about it. They're running along and all of a sudden they see somebody ahead of them like shaking wildly with their hands, and it's because they just ran over a ground wasp nest. And it's like that perfect time of year where the you know the wasps are angry, the queen's dead, and but they were just everywhere, from what I understood in in certain parts of the races.
SPEAKER_03:Interesting. That's crazy. I mean hardly trained for that. Yeah, it's like something you don't. I mean, I was talking to Jasmine a few days before the race, and I know she, Jasmine Louther, and I know she had spooked like a um uh a wild boar on the course. Like she like stepped over uh like a like a tree trunk and it was like hanging out underneath underneath a bit. And that was kind of cool. I was like, oh wow, so there's a lot of like crazy wildlife out there, but wasps were not something I had on the bingo cards. Right, right. Yeah, I don't think they did either. Yeah, exactly. It's true. Um all right. Any any like initial reactions and takeaways from like we I I I want to break it up and talk about the different courses, like long trail, short trail, and stuff like that. But before we do that, I do want to talk about like any initial reactions or takeaways like from performances, any performances that stuck out to you guys that were just that kind of blew you away, or um yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean it's sad to say it. It's sad to say it because it's you know, Katie Scheid. You know, you're like you expect it, but I think it dulls down about how impressive it is. You know what I mean? We're we're so used to her just crushing, and so you're like, Yep, yep, she wants, but it it's she does so well, and I think it it just waters it down because we we expect it, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and and I think even related to that, um, I feel like we both got to witness uh, as I refer to the cult of Jim and Katie, like the pressure on them to succeed, every water stop or every aid station, there's 10 people filming it. And it's like they don't have a moment's anonymity from the moment they arrive there. Like, you know, they could just be hanging out and people are gonna come up for selfies and everything. I admire, first of all, their patience with their fans. Like it's impressive. They like, sure, I'll do a selfie with you, and that's like all day long. But also, like, I yeah, it's like uh Jim had more competition, but Katie, like the expectation was there. And so the best she could do was meet expectations. That's pretty crazy um when you have all eyes on you like that.
SPEAKER_03:I find it really interesting too. Something that really stuck out to me was, and and maybe this was more personified on the short trail versus the long trail, just because like the two athletes that I figured would shine the most on the long trail, because we just kind of figure that Jim and KD are gonna do amazing. But I just really got to say, I have a lot of respect for their range because that course is not easy, it's not super runnable. There's a lot of technicality to it. If anything, it's more of a sky course. Right. Um, and you think that would favor a different kind of athlete, and yet that's still Jim and Katie figured it out and still performed to their highest, uh, highest potential on there, which is I don't know. I gotta say that that's an interesting thing because that's a thread I kind of want to get into with both of you as far as like just talking about the courses, where you guys can tell me as much as you want to or what you think about this, but it's a it's a weird world championship where the course itself, I feel like, favored more of the skyrunner. If you're not good at technical terrain, I feel like this stuff ate you alive. So did that pick then, did it pick the best person on the day, or did it pick the world champion? Like, what do you guys think about that?
SPEAKER_01:I think we have to go all the way back to the committee to to talk about that because we're going into the unknown as the committee when we have like short and long trail for resume spots, right? And I think we've talked about this before where you kind of have to pick two absolute people that fly. Then you have to pick two crushers that are just amazing at climbers climbing. And then you pick some utility guys to hopefully get in the middle. Because we go into a blind. We don't know what this course looks like. We've got the we've got it on paper. We've got, you know, fifty-three fifty-three miles and eighteen thousand feet of we know nothing else. So I think it has to go back to that where we uh Yeah, I think that I mean, I think we did a the best job we could do picking, just being like we need to get some of these people because I mean we could if we knew what how technical it was it would be, then we would probably pick different candidates, right?
SPEAKER_03:Do you think that I mean that you tell me, do you think that would be like does that change the calculus then? Kind of knowing like I think it has to.
SPEAKER_01:I think it has to, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Well, like, you know, Finn brought this up and I thought it was very interesting because he had like mentioned a few really good technical runners, like Kyle Richardson being one. He's like, is is that like our secret weapon, you know, with a technical course or something like that, like different type of people, different types of athletes, not just because like if you do look at the spread for us on the American side, I forg like I forget how many JFK winners we had, like uh just on the long trail for the men, quite a few, and in the short trail too, with Seth. So it's interesting. Like uh I don't know. I also feel like fitness is fitness. So the best athlete on the day is generally the best athlete that's gonna win, I would guess, but it's hard to say, you know. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and and I look at um you know, to me, one of the biggest challenges whenever we have this race, and Tom kind of said it, you get the GPX, you get the stats, and worlds is always different. Like I don't I don't care where you go, because there's never any real description of footing. Um, and even if they put some pictures out there, it's never the same. And like you can even say that like for Sonneby, we could take pictures and show the elevation gain, and we're still gonna have people come back and say, wow, it was totally different than what I expected. And I think that's part of the challenge is there's always a guesstimate. And so you're balancing like who do you think are the athletes that are going to perform well on a world stage and that mixture of different people. Like I was so psyched to see like some of these like first time on the team people, Jane, Ruby, they just crushed it. Um, that was so exciting to see. Like, and even them coming to the A stations, like they were focused, like beyond focused on just coming in, getting their stuff, leaving, and just so strong. So I think that to me was the most exciting part to see was how well some athletes, Anna is another one, how well some athletes did the, you know, it's not the first time they've been in a competitive European race, but it's the first time on the team. And they just like showed why they belong there, which was great.
SPEAKER_03:I I do have one more, just I kind of like a selection question for you guys. And I don't know, Tom, I think I might have mentioned this to you before, but Paul, maybe you can answer it or either of you. Why is it different on the vertical, like the selection wise? Like, why do I have to go earn my spot for vertical and classic versus their resume spots for long trail and short trail? Like, why is it mixed up like that?
SPEAKER_00:I think um I think it's a matter of being realistic of people's seasons. So if I'm gonna do the qualifier for long trail, that has a huge impact on what else I can plan out in my race season, as opposed to, you know, think of some of the elites who do the Sark series. They could do that race every weekend eight weeks in a row and they'd still be fresh. And so that's why, because at one point we used to have like multiple selection races for uh vertical and classic. And at the end of the day, we found one was the neatest way to do it for the short races, because everybody can come in pretty fresh to race that, and then they could go do another race the following weekend and they're still recovered. Interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Do you think there'll ever be a time because it I just find it interesting, like the I don't know. Do you think there'll ever be a time where we either expand the teams, like there's more athletes as the sport continues to grow, or for the classic and vertical, if there will ever be resume spots available?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. I I I think I yeah, I think for vertical and classic, I don't think there really needs to be. I think it need like if you want to be on the team, I think you need to be there. That that needs to be a focus. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and in terms of yeah, expanding the teams, it's you have to also factor in like uh yeah, Spain, US, Germany could all field six-person teams. Some people can only field four. So I think there's a fairness factor there of why they wouldn't expand because they want to continue to encourage as many countries as possible to be able to score for teams with the screen scores and the trail stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, speaking of that, Uganda, dude, out of nowhere. I didn't like I did try to do research on them ahead of time, couldn't find anything on the internet, and they showed up. Those guys are legit.
SPEAKER_01:They always show up, they show up every year.
SPEAKER_03:They do. I know, I don't know why I would think naively like it this year wouldn't be a year where they do amazing. Uh, it's it's just interesting. Their athletes are crazy. Um, all right, let's let's kind of double back then, and I want to talk about some different storylines within the different races. So, one being long trail. We had some, I I guess there was um Hillary had to kind of jump up and do the double um after doing the VK. Can you guys talk about kind of the storylines that unfolded with the long trail specifically for Team USA?
SPEAKER_00:Well, so and uh Tom, how about you do the the men and I can share just because of the background there of um uh so Jen freak fall training on the course and uh tweaked her hamstring pretty badly and kind of was a wait and see. And then our team uh PT person Carol evaluated her in person and kind of the feeling was like she tried Jen tried to run 10 minutes, and by the end of 10 minutes, it was real questionable. And like if she was doing a 5K, maybe she'd do it. But it's like that to to risk her whole career potentially by turning around and doing the 80K, it just wasn't uh wasn't worth it. I actually admire her because that has to stink to get there and be that close. This is the second time this has happened to her. It happened in Thailand as well for long trail. But we had to give Hillary a heads up. Like Jen had said, this might be an issue. She had reached out to us and wasn't sure and we would know close to the race, but we had to get a hold of Hillary before she left so she could bring all her gear. And so I think it was Tom and Anita both reached out to Hillary and just checking, are you on board to do this? And uh she was like, sure, sure.
SPEAKER_01:That's a lie. That's a lie. Okay. All right, go ahead. No, she stepped up. Yeah, we had we had to convince her, we had to sweet talk her. Actually, I just bullied her the entire the entire time until she said yes.
SPEAKER_00:But like she joked about she had one 20-mile road run and a bunch of short vertical stuff as her training for her 80k race. So it's it's mind-blowing to me that like she made the cutoffs, she finished, she was strong. Like, um, and honestly, she wasn't even as sore. Like the next day, I expected to see her like hobbling around the streets. She wasn't, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_01:She had a blast too. She was coming into the aid station, she was having an absolute blast. So yeah, and she's I mean, that's her personality. That's I mean, she's the there can't anything, no, no raining clouds in her life, I don't think.
SPEAKER_00:She loves and I and I should clarify too, like it was too close to worlds. We did have another alternate. It was too close to worlds to pull somebody else in on the team at the last minute.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right. And no, I think I think it was a great choice given Hillary's background, too, with skyrunning, also with the high-end ultra running stuff, doing lots of hundred miles. Like, she's got a lot of experience kind of across a a breadth of distances. So yeah, I think it's I mean, if there was anybody you were gonna pull up to do it, like that's that's definitely the person to step in and you know, I think it's a good selection.
SPEAKER_01:And Tom, I was gonna say you're gonna talk about the man you want to just Yeah, I mean I if we're we're just talking about the the one DNF, I mean uh you know Caleb just had a a weird fall. I mean that's that's part of the game, you know. He uh I think he fell around mile ten or so. He walked out to the road, his wife was there, you know, she picked him up. It was uh just a freak thing. So but it's it's interesting to you know it's how fast your day can end. How you know? It's you're you know, especially since you're out there for I mean, he was out there for weeks before training. Nothing, no, no accidents and just any given Sunday, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well I remember Jen said she was a mile from her car when the fall happened. It like it wasn't she was you know way deep in the wilderness, it was just a freak thing. Like to me, what's most impressive is those I feel like anybody talking about the race ahead of time, Caleb and Jen were mentioned as part of our scoring members of the team.
SPEAKER_03:100%.
SPEAKER_00:And so to me, like the admirable part is silver medal still for both teams. Like people like Adam and Allison and Shay, and that like they just all stepped up. Um, and you know, they already were doing well, but like coming into that last aid station, it was a lot of like encouragement, and a few of them they were hurting coming into that aid station. And it wasn't like they just had 5k left. They had a big climb, they had a descent and everything. And it was just like that to me is like what's so amazing is that team aspect. They were like, uh-oh, all right, I gotta do it. I gotta step up, I gotta keep going.
SPEAKER_03:Where were you guys stationed throughout the long trail, like as far as uh for crew and stuff like that? Were you constantly moving from location to location?
SPEAKER_01:Or two different locations, yeah. Okay, yep. They were about an hour and 10, 15 minutes apart. So we actually had to split up uh just because Wamsley was about to get to the second aid station while some were still coming through the other. So we were we had to we had to haul.
unknown:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Is it let's talk about that because I mean I don't think a lot of people realize this like long trail and short trail aid stations aren't what we're used to, right? We're used to you you have your five friends, your wife's there, she's massaging you, you're getting your favorite food. You have a table that's three feet long with 12 people stuff on it, and there's only three volunteers or three crew allowed for the whole team. So we need to be super organized and and we need to know exactly what each person has. When they come in and throw it down, we need to know where that goes next. Because if they are if they're doing a vest swap and they need it at the next age station, now we still have to have everything else to refill that and get it to the next age station. So there's a there's a lot of complexity to that. Um and it I mean it it sounds easy, but it's not. It is it's complete mayhem when when three runners come in at the same time. Yeah, there it's you know, it's all hands on deck kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03:So did different people have different jobs or like how did you guys like break that up?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was gonna say I feel like it was primarily Tom and Anita were filling stuff, and then sometimes Jen was actually part of our crew then, so she was helping as well. And then like I was telling them where to go because like you have to picture it's a ski area lodge where they've set up the tables in a maze for all the countries. So you're literally going winding around and you're trying to tell them where the USA table is. And you know, you're coming in, you're exhausted, and everything. So it's like getting them there. And then we also had another person, Josh, and sometimes Jason, uh, were out on course ahead of the aid station. So we'd have a five minute warning on who was coming in. So we'd make sure their bags were the most prominent ones, too. Um, and then, like Tom said, like at one point for long trail, he was like, Anita and I need to go. And so myself, Josh, and uh Jen stayed to get the rest of the women's team. To get them, you know, and then we packed up and moved over, but we even had to rush because there was some stuff from that first aid station that Tom needed for the women as they came into the second aid station. And and you're just like kind of, and honestly, you're navigating a little bit of cultural stuff of the aid stations aren't necessarily set up by runners. They're set up by I need to fit 70 countries in this room. So it's a little funky, and you want to be polite but firm on yes, this is our table, and we're allowed to have people here. And and so there's a little bit of that fun navigation too. Chaos. Oh, and then the the well, you have to talk about it. It wasn't at the aid station. There were two uh bolts. So the second aid station? No, it was the first aid station. So this is kind of the funny part, James. And like this is the stuff like it, it's like adventure. They give you a pin of where to go for the aid station. Well, we get there, and there's uh, as Josh described it, a walking dead level gate at the entrance to the ski area, and it's completely dark because sunrise there was like 7 45, and we're like trying to figure out whether to go in. Well, I called one of the aid station or one of the officials or whatever, and they're like, Yeah, you can open the gate. You know, I didn't read the Spanish. Tom read it later on. Essentially said, Don't leave the gate open because there's bulls and cows inside. Like literally, there were wild animals, you know, just free grazing. Well, um, so we get into the aid station, we're trying to figure out where to set up. Well, uh, after a few people came in, there were two bulls trotting down the mountain, and they almost gored somebody, not a runner, but a fan. Like they almost gored them and they just kept going. And you're like, Yeah, we're not in the US right now. Oh my god. That is nuts.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was way closer than it needed to be.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. Like it was like you're watching it. You know how like you see like a slow motion play in a sporting event. Oh, yeah, and it like seems more painful. It was moving in slow motion. We're like watching this bull going, no, no, we just missed him.
SPEAKER_01:So when it happened, I'm like, where's Sarah Alonso for this? Because she was she literally it she's like, I'm right here.
SPEAKER_00:And she's then she's showing us her MRI pictures to show where she was gored and everything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Was it so it I was it a cow or was it a it was a bull that attacked her?
SPEAKER_01:No, it was I think it was just a regular, uh, just a steer, yeah, a cow. Uh these these were bulls, these were bullshit, yeah. They had horns.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's not what you don't want to get hit by one of those. That's yeah, that's yeah, you don't want to be a matador. That's not not fun, not ideal.
SPEAKER_00:No, but like kind of the adventure there, like that's what I mean. Like, it's funny. Okay, you had to open this gate. Like in the US, if I drove up to a ski area and there was a giant gate locked, I wouldn't open that gate and go in. I'd expect. This was just like, yep, just go in, just close the gate, and also it's like those are some of the funny navigational things that happen as you're trying to figure out, yeah, okay, this is where it is. Yeah, and you keep going, and like, and then we got there, and like there's an alarm going off in the building, which wasn't us, it was the eight station volunteers that set it off. But part of me was thinking, did that go off because we opened the gate? Like, and that's just kind of the part of the fun adventure stuff on the side as you get into the eight stations.
SPEAKER_01:I love it because it's not that fun at the moment. Now it's funny. Yes, now it's funny.
SPEAKER_03:It's the stories that like you know, people follow the race and try to learn more about it, whether it's on on social media, and but these are not the stories that get told. So I appreciate you guys like the bulls. That's that's wild. Like that's it's interesting stuff. Well, where was it hard to get from location to location? Like, was it in in a navigable course, like like being able to just drive from A to B or no, like not at all?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, yeah. I mean, it wasn't short course, aid station one was a pain, but the rest of them were were pretty easy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It it was more like the hour and 10 minutes or whatever it was. It was because there was a mountain between the two aid stations, so you had to like drive way down and then go around to the other side of the mountain to get there.
SPEAKER_01:Little unknown fact about Spain, they love roundabouts. Didn't know that. Uh there's about 47 every mile. It's it's ridiculous. You just go through roundabout after roundabout after roundabout all the time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there were 30 roundabouts between Cal Franc and the Barcelona airport because we were bored and counted them.
SPEAKER_03:That's terrible. Uh all right, let's let's put off eight stations and long trail. I want to get into uh let's talk about the mountain classic and the vertical. I probably let's start about the vertical first. Like the first thing that stood out to me for the vertical was just Anna Gibson. Like uh as far as on the women's team. Like, dude, like I mean Anna's capabilities are kind of crazy. Like she it just really like she really blew me away. And then same with the men's team. I was very impressed with the men's team, especially after I I heard that Joe had taken a fall scouting and just didn't have the day that he wanted to have and had a rough day. I know Tyler got back behind some of the group with a kind of the mass crazy start um and was able to kind of pull it together. The men's team like stuck out to me as well. So maybe if there's any stories or just anything that like stands out to you guys, um put that out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I was on course. Uh I went from the top from the summit down uh to what about one mile, and I mean it it was crazy, Steve. It was it was no joke. Um also it hit it was super cold that night, so there was frost on everything. So it was it was really slick. Um but to see them and how and how hard they were working, it was awesome. It was it was unbelievable. Uh I think Cam Smith kind of gets you know looked over, but man, does he work hard? When when he sees that he can pass people and he's almost there, he just tucks his chin and and he just digs. He's a dog, man. 11th.
SPEAKER_03:Like, yeah, he's yeah, love Cam. Good human too. Um anything more on the women's side or anything that stuck out to you guys, Paul or or Tom?
SPEAKER_00:Well, one thing I thought was really cool is afterwards talking to Anna, um, she was excited that her schedule finally worked out to be at Worlds. And to me, that's like a reminder of how popular Worlds has gotten. You know, I was doing other stuff, um, you know, track stuff, but also then, you know, in Golden Trail series or whatever. And so to me, that's really exciting that the schedule worked out this year, that we could have the best of the best vying for the team and everything. And that was just so cool to see her out there. You know, she looked just like it's gonna be. She was just crushing it. Or the way, you know, I saw the live stream of uh Broken Arrow, and just, you know, I I love seeing that that we truly have our best top people there at these races. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't think we know how good Lauren are I like, I think between Lauren Gregory, I think a lot of the team, but like Lauren Gregory and Anna Gibson, like I don't think like we've reached the ceiling yet. I think we have years to go to see. I think like there's potential like world champions, I think, in this group, even though what came out this year.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that'll expand too when when companies start to recognize that worlds is cool.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like right now, you know, these guys are doing this zero bonuses.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right. Let's talk about that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's a shame, man. Like some people turn down the spots because it's a financial burden, really. I mean, when it comes down to it, you know, if if your if your team or your company that's sponsoring you is is not backing this, you have to, and you know, you can get a bonus somewhere else. You have to put the other the other race in the forefront, right?
SPEAKER_03:Did you guys read Caleb's Substack? I mean, there was some he threw some ideas. I highly recommend if you haven't read it yet. But like there, and I can link it in the show notes. He just threw out some good ideas for like 2027, and one of them was discussing just the buy-in from our individual sponsors um for this team. Like, obviously, you know, the team is kitted out in Nike, you wear your brand shoes that you're you know that you're sponsored by, yada yada, yada. But it's the I think he threw out some ideas for it. How do we get the individual brands more bought in on the world side, whether it like like you said, whether it's from a bonus perspective and have buy-in from there, um, or just buy-in in general, get them excited. Maybe there's a way that we can work something out so they can the brands can sponsor something so they can be a part of it as well. So there's mutual buy-in. I don't know. There was like a million ideas thrown out, but yeah, I think it's I I think that's how we get this thing to the next level. So where it's competing, um, not that it already isn't, but it is competing against I guess the UTMB. But how do we get this thing bigger to where it is the real like the world world championships and there's tons of buy-in? Right.
SPEAKER_01:I mean one of the things next year or two yeah, I'm sorry, in two years, it won't compete, right? So it'll be in November. Right. So there'll be enough time between between those. And then the other thing I was gonna say is I mean, the Olympics, you know, they they figured it out with the brands. Right. You know, the best of the best is going, whether their sponsor who their sponsor is, they're going. So that you know, they they figured it out. I mean, it you know somebody smarter than us can figure this out, but I mean it's it it's definitely doable.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I was it's funny you say that, Tom, because I was just gonna point that out. I feel like James, 10 years ago, uh US track championship, well, maybe not US, but like world track teams, Olympic teams, there was much more of a battle of whether they, you know, the swoosh and everything. But in the last two Olympics, I feel like we've seen it where, you know, you have on athletes there, you have Brooks athletes, you have Adidas athletes, and they're still wearing the swoosh, and those cup, but those companies are very interested in having their athletes there. And I'm hoping that same mindset will move over to this world champs as well. Because it's the same thing. I feel like it's just, you know, we're 10 years behind the track world in that, but it's the same challenge.
SPEAKER_03:Do you think it's maybe just a matter of getting, I don't know, like you guys getting the race director, or not the race director, sorry, the the athlete managers in a room and just having a conversation, you know, some of the the decision makers at with Brooks, Hoka, Vospert, whatever, you know, getting having conversations individually with them or getting them all with some kind of you know, summit or discussion, just to figuring out ways that we can just get buy-in from the brands moving forward or get get people to connect more on it. Because it's the thing, like it is it's a special thing for us as athletes to go do something like this. So they might as well support it. Like you, if you quote unquote support your athlete, you're gonna support this, you know. I don't know. It's kind of like my take on it, but you would think that's how it worked.
SPEAKER_01:That'd be way too easy.
SPEAKER_03:Uh it's true, it's true.
SPEAKER_00:I will say Brooks had a big presence. Oh, yeah. They had multiple reps there, you know, multiple people from there, Adam Chase and others. Um, and they obviously had a lot of athletes there. And they they celebrated them even, you know, though people weren't wearing Brooks clothing uh to race in. So I feel like Brooks bought into it. Um, and now it's hoping to get other brands on board as well to buy into it. Um, I also think like nothing like popularity and FOMO um to get you there, of you know, it's it's whether you know live stream is perfect or not. There's a lot of attention on this event. Like Free Trail was there. Yeah, they've never been there before. That to me is another statement of, you know, we're getting more and more people on site interested in this event. And I think that will over time change because, you know, why do they go to Chamonix? Because there's a scene. Like it isn't just the races, there's a scene, and so we want our athletes seen at that scene. I think it's getting worlds, it's getting closer, but it's getting to be that scene as well.
SPEAKER_03:I I think South Africa has potential too. I think it's that that area of of of the world, just the infrastructure perspective. Like they already put on UTCT. It's kind of actually, do you guys know how that like interacts with UTCT in November? Because that's a November race as well.
SPEAKER_01:Like I think they're gonna kind of I I talked to Stu for a little bit about it, and I think he may do it just like Austria was. So Austria, I think, had their Adidas Terix race basically the whole week, and then it just kind of flopped over and they just kept going. So it was almost like a week, a week and a half worth of races for all the distances.
SPEAKER_00:And I remember in Argentina in 2019, that was the first time they had short, they had mountain, and then they also had a long mountain, and that was part of a um Argentine 42K. I forget the the name of the race, but they had a citizens race as well. And then they had the elite races. And so I that's what I think they'll do. Because honestly, James, that helps fund it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Too. Um, you know, hey, I can participate in the races that's part of the national you know the world championships. That's gotta help stew in terms of funding, you know, and more exposure if you could make the thing a whole week-long event.
SPEAKER_03:Which would be sweet. I mean, it's amazing for the sport, it's good for everyone involved, if anything. I I do have a question for qualifiers for 2027. I know we're so early thinking about this, but like I've heard ideas thrown around and I actually really liked it. Not that it's it's easy to make it happen, but why don't we just make UTCT the qualifier for 2027, like in 2026?
SPEAKER_01:Could that be who's going there? I I have no idea. That's the question.
SPEAKER_03:Who's got the travel budget for that to go there's any private benefactors out there that want to but I mean it's wishful thinking, it could be cool. I don't know. It's gonna be interesting. Do we even have an idea yet of what like the 2026 U.S. Mountain Running Championships is gonna be yet? Like of where or what?
SPEAKER_00:No, no, for 2026 we don't. They haven't been selected yet. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Cool, cool. Oh, sorry, I'm a little ahead of myself there. Um, all right, let's let's bounce back to the races. I do want to talk a little bit about short trail because that stuck out to me as well. Um a lot of newbies. Like, I really loved seeing Jane and Ruby absolutely crush it. Like, was there any takeaways from from their races or anything from that?
SPEAKER_01:I would just say the composure, like to see them come in for being newbies, they were cool, calm, collected, just business as usual, which was interesting. No, yeah, it was it was it was awesome to watch. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and even like Tabor, who's self-professed of that was not her course. Um, she was pushing it coming into the aid stations. Like it was really impressive to see where she wanted to be. I felt super bad for Helen because she had fallen knee injury like a couple weeks before and it showed up like on the first descent. And so I honestly give her a huge amount of credit. She could have dropped. She didn't have the day she wanted, and like she knew that coming into the first aid station. She was saying, she's like, my knees. I will not say the word, but yeah, no, she's like, My knees F and it's done. Um, and like so to keep going on a course like that, I just have huge admiration that that she would stick it out to finish the race at world. But just to, yeah, just like it's it was really cool to me to see like it wasn't just the people with the most experience who did well, it was some of the newcomers, and that was so cool.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't think we know how good Jane and Ruby are yet. I think that I think we're still figuring it out, especially like I know Ruby like had a great race at Broken Arrow, so did Jane as well, but Jane even more so like now with like first with the Grand Teton and then um you know destroying it on the like the I would have loved to have seen her too on the Mountain Classic Circuit because it she wins just about every Cirque Series race she races. So she would have been kind of a good selection for that as well had she shown up to Sunapi. Like it would have been interesting if she would have tried to mix it up there, but yeah, a lot of lot of range, just a very talented, a lot of very new talented athletes in the sport, which is pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like we this whole thing we've just been tiptoeing around our boy. Like we let's let's just go right in to talk about Noah.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, I gotta say, man, Noah, you know what? I I think you know what, man, I gotta give Noah his flowers. I think a lot of people uh on a let's just say, like, on a team that had Eli Hemming, David Sinclair, Mekelino, Seth, it was a deep team. And like on paper, it's so deep. And and Noah, I mean, you know what? I I think what tipped me off was Noah, like has just been very consistent all year. That broken arrow result was damn good. And then had a great result at series and all that I feel like was a little overlooked. I I think people weren't really looking at that, and then sure as shit, like it had an amazing day out there. So yeah, I gotta give Noah like huge props.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he I mean, he like he passed somebody in the last like hundred meters on the road. Like that, even that was cool to see. He was just like, I'm going for it. And um, you know, he he looked like a happy track athlete at that point and to even have the thought to be able to do that. But yeah, he he just had such a great day. Like I feel like he pushed it, he stuck with others, and then others faded. He kept going. I think he took a big risk to do that. Like, yeah, he may have known his fitness, but he still took a risk to do that, and it obviously paid off. Um, that was I was so psyched to see him do that. Plus New Hampshire roots. That's right.
SPEAKER_03:Remember, we're celebrating that. Yes. Another New Hampshire guy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I I do have a question for you guys. Uh, out of and this is maybe more this is more of a selection question. Like, being as though Eli and David both had CCC in their legs, and it was very evident, and this is no disparagement. I think they they ran great races. I'd know both those guys, immense respect for both of them. Do you think in future years, if it is that close, is there gonna be more of a conversation like around those things? Or do you have to just let, you know, like how it's a it's a weird conversation to have, right?
SPEAKER_01:Because like you know No, we we had that conversation over and over and over. And how do we what do you do? Right. Do you tell me that they're not selected because they're doing another race that they can make money at? Right. That's that's not fair. It's not it's that's it's it's that sticky money thing again, right?
SPEAKER_03:It's just I mean, look at look at Sinclair. I mean, he had such a great CCC result that like, I mean, we all knew David's like one of the best in the world, but like life-changing result for him in a lot of ways. Like, he's able to be a full-time athlete now. That might have not happened had he not gone to CCC and had an amazing day. So it's a it's a tough, it's a tough conversation, right? It's like I don't know, you know, like we need more buy-in from the brands to have those but bonuses, so you don't have to make that choice. Like that's that really is really what it comes down to, you know. Right.
SPEAKER_01:It's funny too because we we we get some heat as the committee being like, well, they were yeah, we know we're well aware that they were running this these races. We've we've hinned and hawed for for a month over it, too. Don't think that we haven't like gone up and like, all right, this is a problem. You think they can do it? Who can do it? What would we have done if some of the top long trail also wanted to do UTMB?
SPEAKER_02:Right?
SPEAKER_01:Where would we have stood there? I mean, we're not gonna stop Jim and Katie, you know, from from doing that and then coming to do worlds. It's it's it's on the athlete on that. It's we can only put forward what we you know what we decide.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and and both both Eli and David afterwards did say um, like they could feel CCC in their legs, but I think both, like when Tom was talking earlier about how hard the courses were, I don't think anybody expected the short trail course to be that hard.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So it like if it had been a little less elevation or a little bit less, you know, ridiculous straight up climbs, I think they both would have been more recovered. Uh that that probably doesn't make sense to say it that way, but it was like because this race was so hard, I don't think anybody factored in how hard that short trail race was gonna be.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, that course was gnarly. I Mikelino was out there like weeks and weeks before, and I had him telling me all about it, and I was like, oh man, don't cut, don't cut the switchbacks. Like that is is uh it's it yeah, it just seemed gnarly and tough. And I don't know. I felt I genuinely just felt like out of, and maybe I'm naive, but like I just kind of figured like they would just be recovered in time and it really wouldn't be that big of a deal. But I guess the level of that type of race for 100K and going that hard, like really does like just neuromuscular fatigue, like really just like that's probably plays a small role.
SPEAKER_00:So well, and I think if anybody can recover, like David with his Nordic background, yeah, and some of like 20, yeah. Um, I think this was before like there was a big focus on worlds, but 2019 he ran the classic race. It was two insane up and down laps. And then we needed somebody for the long trail, which was a trail marathon that Jim won, and Poopy was second. Um, David said, Oh, I'll run that too the next day. And he finished like 13th because his legs gave out on the last. Like he's just such an animal. To me, if anybody was going to be able to recover off of that, it was him. And that to me shows you how tough the course was.
SPEAKER_03:Dude is, yeah, he's one of the best in the world, easily. Like, I have such immense respect for both of them, him and Eli as well. But like just uh some of the like the mythical stories I've heard of David Sinclair, like it's it's it's cool, it's interesting. Uh I got him, dude. I had him on the podcast the other day. I got him talking about like lactate threshold heart rate and stuff like that. The guy is a brain, also, like he knows his training so well. Um yeah, I'll save that. I'll like let listeners listen to that episode so they can hear all like he he was like pretty open about his heart rate data, and I was like, oh my god, like you can sustain like 195 beats per minute for that long. Like that's nuts. Anyway, um, yeah, guy's a freak. Anything do you want to do you want to get into U20 as well? Because I didn't follow those races or that race enough uh to be able to commentate on anything aspect of it. I know like you and I have had some discussions on U20 um, you know, in the past as well, and I do want to get them on the podcast, but maybe open it up and talk a little bit about their race as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I think there's a couple like really cool milestones. Um 10 years ago, people doing U20 were like, oh, this is interesting. I get to wear a US uniform, and you'd never see them ever again. And that's changing where trail is becoming a huge option for people. Like one of the Sierra Wall, like when she was shopping around to colleges, she had like a clause in there of, if I make the team, I want to be able to do it. Will you let me do that if I run for you? Like nobody would have done that 10 years ago. Um, I love seeing that. All of the uh U-20 came in with some level of mountain experience. Three of them came in from the U18 team from Spain last year. And it's just, you know, you're getting people like Sofia Rodriguez just set the state record for cross-country in Washington State at age 16, I think, at like a 16 and change for cross-country at age 16. So it's like to me, we're just getting better and better athletes for the U-20 team. And then we dropped the curveball in of full Uganda and Kenyan teams in front of them this year. Like, if I think that that didn't happen in the past, uh, they might have one or two U-20 athletes from Kenya or Uganda. And so the fact that the boys were like, I think they were a point out of third, and we had two guys in the top 10, like that's incredible. Like competing at the world stage like this. Um, you know, they're competing against Spain, got to train on the course, I'm sure, and things like that. Like, show you the level of the competition. The woman who won U20 two years ago was from Spain, and she won U18 the same year. I think she was like seventh or eighth this year. Like that's how much the competition has gone up. But to me, the big story there is like we just have young people that are looking at trail and saying, I want to do trail. And that's the best thing that could ever happen to our side of the sport, is not like, oh, I'm gonna run track and this is a fun side thing. No, they want to do trail, and that's just so cool to see.
SPEAKER_03:It's interesting. So that's the conversation then. Like, are these kids realizing now, especially getting to see your Katie Scheid's Jim Walmsleys and a lot of these athletes that are competing at the professional level, these kids come in. Do they are they fully understanding, like, yeah, like I can make this a career, like after college? Like, so that once we have that attachment and buy-in from a lot of these college kids, I think that that's that's gonna raise the sport up so much.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you've got you've had Oakley Ulsman on a couple times. She's like the huge ambassador for doing this type of stuff. And Tom, go ahead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I was just gonna say uh I drove the the girls to the start line. Um, I don't I'm not sure if they're thinking about this as a career. Uh these girls have their lives planned out. They're talking about what they're going to school for, where they're going to be next year. Like they're like full-on uh boss women. Like they're they're they've already got their business planned out. And so this I think is I think they'll be in in the sport, but I don't think they're gonna I don't think they're gonna want or need uh financial backing. I think they're ready to go.
SPEAKER_03:I love it. I love it. Yeah, it's dude, it's it's it's I don't know. The sport is changing so much now. Like we talked about offline before, like uh before we started recording, like just how competitive it's gotten in the last few years. And like every year it seems to get like five to ten percent better, like easily with just the amount of depth now at some of these races. Um yeah, it it's it's interesting. So it's good to see the future's bright, especially for the American side. Because like, I don't know, years ago, I don't know, I always feel like the European athletes were just so different, like they grew up doing different sports. It wasn't necessarily cross-country and track, it was we came from cross country and track, and it was just a different thing. Um, and now you kind of see it meeting in the middle on the mountain running scene, and and we're we're competing on a world stage now. I feel like I don't know, you guys can speak to this better than I can, but d do you feel like we got more respect worldwide? Like the Americans like showed up and like really performed.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's I don't know whether, like, I feel like the last two worlds we've had some amazing performances as well. Um I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Like these were all like super like percent of truly our best.
SPEAKER_01:It's a great question. I yeah, I don't I'm not I'm not sure how to answer that. I I maybe just from from my standpoint, I thought we were always always there. I don't think it's like something new. I think that the top countries have much more respect for each other right now. I think they they see that anybody can take this. I don't think there's a big of a gap between the top, I would say top five countries. I think that they're all one or two people away from from gold.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and and related to that, Canada won a team medal for the first time ever. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I remember talking to one of the uh British coaches and they were saying, like, you know, used to be it was some version of the US and Italy and Great Britain and maybe one other country on the podium. And now we've got you know people from Sweden and people from Switzerland and just all over Spain and other places, as well as the African countries. And that to me is really cool. Like, it's one thing to be the dream team, but if it's the dream team without competition, but now, like, you know, getting on the podium at all is probably more of an achievement now than a gold medal might have been 15 years ago. So it's like that's that's what I love to see is um you really have to earn a spot to get on the podium now.
SPEAKER_03:When you said Sweden, the first thing that came to my mind was Toby Alexanderson. Like, yo, like what a performance! Like, if there was a performance of the the the like of the weekend, like that's one of them. Uh, what was your takeaway from that? Because that was so dominant.
SPEAKER_00:I know my first takeaway was wait, that was the first woman. Yeah. So because you're like, it's you know, you kind of have in your head when people are gonna come through, and I I forgot she was racing, and it was just insane how far ahead she was.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's crazy, absolutely yeah. I I I mean, I was on the mountain watching it, and I watching her pass some of our top men, I was like, I don't know what's happening right now.
SPEAKER_03:She's a yeah, monster, total monster. Um, is there anything you feel like we didn't hit? Any topics you wanna you guys want to get to because we're at about an hour. I feel like we're gonna have to.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was gonna say one one last thing I did want to give a shout out to is we were talking about team and everything. Women's classic race.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my goodness. Um, like Lauren, she passes somebody in the last 1500 meters, almost got fourth. But then to watch Anna and Courtney work together was so cool. Like they were working like a cross country team trying to place. Um, I think they were shooting for gold, but you know, they got they got the position they did because of the way they were pushing. Um, and that's something you're not gonna see at a regular race. And to me, that was like the whole magic of. world is I'm gonna work with my teammate to score. And they certainly did in that race. It was so cool to see.
SPEAKER_03:Very special. I mean it was a special team for me too because like I don't know I felt like we got to follow them from Sunnepe when we picked the team and or when they in their spot and then all the way through to this journey to where they're racing on race day and this is kind of the culmination of it. It was very special. It was very fun to watch both and and the men's team as well the Mountain Classic like such a like such a deep deep field such a like competitive group and yeah it was it was very very fun to follow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah and I don't I haven't talked to Mason about his actual time but he decided like yeah I'm gonna go out with the Africans in the first flat road section. Uh the fact that he held on at all was crazy. And you know he went for it. And I like that was impressive like Taylor's race too. I don't want to diminish any of them but the fact that Mason is out there hanging out with people like I I don't know Tom whether you heard like I'm sure that was a sub four start to that race. It was it was just crazy. And then to you know they go from that to the mountain and he held right with them. Last thousand meters like the look on his face he had drained every ounce out of himself. It was it was impressive how much how much he pushed himself and I love seeing athletes progress like that.
SPEAKER_01:I think the world's atmosphere brings that out because it's team competition. You don't want to let your team down there's so like there's other people that are that are relying on you and I think that that's that makes this so much different at least from inside the team's portion maybe not externally you they don't feel it but from inside I think that those they felt it all weekend long that you know you didn't want to let your teammate down.
SPEAKER_03:I do want to bring up something uh kind of a through line on team that really stuck out to me when I was doing the preview episodes um like Cam Smith and like me you maybe you guys can add some more color to this because I feel like Cam obviously coming from like the world schemo background or USA schemo and you know trying to be an Olympian this year like Cam has a ton of experience and I felt like he really brought that to the to the team you know getting a team camp together and I know he kind of coordinated with you guys uh in the beginning for putting that together. Like can you can you talk a little bit about maybe Cam just like stepping up in like almost like a leadership position uh for the Mountain Classic and kind of vertical teams well I think like to me it's funny because Cam is so easygoing and chill.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not sure if you were talking to him you immediately say yeah he's the guy who's going to put the hammer down in the last you know 100 meters of a straight up race but he does. Like so to me it's it's and you know you have always have different personalities. But yeah I loved like when I learned from him that he was doing that team cap thing and everything we were talking about it it was like what a great bonding opportunity because that is something all the European teams they have funded team caps. Instead Cam found a creative way to have a team cap to bond you know without that funding. And so just like mate major props there that you know he thought that was important. Because I think it's important too and like we have our teams spread so much geographically they don't necessarily get to do that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah I think it's an important thing for future teams. Like I hope other teams and other like I hope members that make the team in 2027 if there's any rollover as I'm sure there will be I hope people kind of took notes on that uh to kind of carry that tradition through because I think the cohesiveness helps a ton for just teamwork and like kind of like Tom said like when you're it's just a different thing when you're competing for a team. So cool. Yeah guys I think that's all I got. If you guys got anything else no I think we're good.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for having us on James and thanks honestly for everything you did to promote the athletes beforehand. Like it was like every week. Oh another athlete from the team is on oh another athlete so that's just awesome that you're like so knee deep in this I love it.
SPEAKER_03:I appreciate it. Uh thank you so much for the kind words and yeah hopefully we're just building till 2027. We'll gonna start figuring out what's next for that. So appreciate it guys. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:All right thanks so much.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah thanks so much to Tom and Paul for coming on the pod. Really appreciate their time and everything that they do for our great sport. Guys one thing I do want to make a note of and I think it's really important to uh for all of you especially um you know for audience and athletes uh and those alike to understand is that these are all volunteer positions none of these are paid positions so everything that Tom and Paul do going out there uh for worlds and con franc they're doing it uh not just out of the kindness of their hearts but they're leaving their uh jobs and families to go do stuff like this overseas um and it is all volunteer so guys definitely want to uh give them a hats off a round of applause and a massive thank you for everything they do um and I I want to make sure that that's uh kind of driven home um as it's extremely important that we have people like this in our sport that continue to donate their time resources and et cetera because they want to move the sport forward. So definitely hats off to both gentlemen amongst the rest of their team for uh doing what they do. So thank you to both guys the best way you could support them Tom and Paul are co-race directors of a bunch of badass northeast races at 603 endurance check out the Sun of P Scramble this past year the Sun of Scramble was the USATF um uh mountain running championship for the United States which was pretty dope um so next year we'll have a mountain running championship maybe it's Sonopee Scramble maybe it won't be not sure but definitely check out Sun of it's badass race super fun uh and also Loon check out Loon Mountain Race as well it's another one of the crown jewels um of the area as well as the Kismet uh cliff run which is another dope one that takes place uh usually in the early parts of the fall uh year um all three iconic races definitely want to support both of these guys um by checking out some of the races in the New England area so uh last but not least guys the best way you could support the podcast two different ways one is if you enjoyed this episode amongst others give us a five star rating and review on Apple Spotify YouTube or wherever you consume your podcast and then very last but not least another way you could support us is by supporting our brand partner Ultimate Direction use code Steep Stuff Pod. Again that's Steep Stuff Pod one word for 25% off your cart at ultimatedirection.com they just dropped a bunch of new vests including a new six liter race vest and a 12 liter ultra vest both are awesome along with a pretty cool pole quiver as well to hold your poles check those out uh in addition the comfort belt is one of my personal favorites it's great for the track if you need something to hold your gels uh also for some of the shorter distances and they also have a uh a distance belt that's a little bit more robust um a little bit bigger uh definitely something to check out as well so uh again code steep stuff pod one word for 25% off your card guys thanks so much got a bunch of fun stuff coming your way at the rest of this week and into next week uh appreciate your support
