The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#143 - Michael Wirth
What happens when a mountain athlete chooses meaning over metrics? We sit down with ski mountaineer and mountain runner Michael Wirth for a rare, candid conversation about privacy, purpose, and why FKTs feel more honest than podiums. Michael traces his path from the Roaring Fork Valley to a brief stint in consulting, then into a life shaped by long tours, sketchy weather windows, and the strange pressure of being recognized for what you do in quiet places.
We dive into the gritty details of his November push on the Tonto Traverse—training alongside David, the tendon flare-up that arrived five days out, the decision to keep moving until it didn’t make sense, and the bittersweet satisfaction of seeing a partner set the record. Michael explains why FKTs pull him more than racing: logistics and judgment matter, terrain asks real questions, and the reward lives in moving across a landscape with speed and care. He also opens up about social media’s tradeoffs—how YouTube can tell richer stories than Instagram, why follower counts too often shape contracts, and how protecting your relationship with the mountains sometimes means posting less.
From scouting the North Cascades High Route and a scary black bear encounter to training blocks built on threshold, VO2 efforts, and the occasional treadmill sufferfest, Michael’s outlook is equal parts frank and thoughtful. He’s eyeing future ski objectives, possibly a renewed push on the High Route with friends, and a career path that might include climate tech or even farming—all while keeping the flame for big, meaningful days outside. If you care about the soul of mountain sport, the pull of place, and the balance between craft and commerce, this one hits home.
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Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Loriello, and today I am so excited to welcome Michael Wirth to the show. Michael has always been, to me, one of the more interesting characters in the sport, and I was super excited to have a conversation with him and uh get him on for a chat. Um, Michael is both an esteemed ski mountaineer and mountain runner, and uh now residing in Canada in Squamish. Um, and we caught up to talk more about Michael as the person. We didn't really get too much into performance. Yeah, we talked about some of his old school stuff, like the Elkstraverse FKT, the Hatrick, course record of Telly Ride, Mountain Run, and a few other things, but his conversation was more around Michael as the human. Um, we talked about his life after the professional athlete scene. We talked about the need for a social media presence and YouTube as a professional athlete. Um, we talked about FKTs versus racing and why Michael prefers the FKT scene when it comes down to competition and things like that. It was super fun. Uh I gotta say, I'm super appreciative uh to have had him on the show for a conversation and uh looking forward to what he's gonna do in the future. So without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one, Michael Worth. Podcast, how's it going, man? It's going well. Thanks for having me. Yeah, excited to uh excited to finally do this and have you on the show. Um I feel like you're uh I know we were kind of talking about this offline. You're like a mystery person, mystery man a little bit, so I'm excited to learn more about you. I I couldn't find much on the internet and uh other than like your YouTube and socials, so I'm excited to uh ask you the 10,000 question game. So it should be should be kind of fun.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I joked with James saying that that's what I'm trying to accomplish. Um just because uh yeah, I I don't know. I feel like I like did a little bit of YouTube stuff uh a few years ago and um and then for like a year, year and a half, which obviously is like the antithesis of trying to be a mystery. Um it's definitely like putting yourself out there and being like, hey, check check me out. Um yeah, I feel like I've sort of stepped away from socials a bit over the past year. Um maybe that's why you think I'm a mystery man.
SPEAKER_03:No, I yeah, I mean there's part of it. Okay, I tried finding you on Strava. Do you actually have a Strava or is it private? Yeah, I have a Strava.
SPEAKER_02:Um it is private. I think I probably had like like 600 followers or something, and then I like deleted everybody. Yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I just like Did you go by one by one? Get rid of each person one by one?
SPEAKER_02:I think you you have to.
SPEAKER_03:But I was just like I just recently.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I don't know why. I think that I was probably just like angry one evening. No, just kidding. I I think that I just have realized like as I have gotten older that I'm actually like kind of a private person, and um I think Stravis certainly can be a pretty um informative social media about your whereabouts and your daily habits. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you you fooled me, dude. It's hard to find. So maybe uh maybe as we get started, uh for the audience that might not be familiar with you, maybe give me like the five-minute elevator pitch. Like start with growing up in the Roaring Fork Valley, uh, and then take me through you know what you did in college and stuff like that to uh where you are now.
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, I grew up in the Roaring Fork Valley. I was on swim team when I was like four years old. Um and that's when the aerobics were introduced to my life. I've been skiing since I was two. Um super lucky for that. And yeah, kind of like I feel like did some competitive skiing um growing up, but nothing like ever very high level. And then kind of transitioned to like doing some more exploratory type skiing as a teenager, um, with like a small amount of touring mixed in. Yeah, did a bunch of bike racing. Um and then kind of like in college, or I went to school at Claremont McKenna, small little school in Southern California, was like definitely still stoked on riding bikes and trying to run here and there and just like staying fit. Didn't really ski that much, but um skied some. Would like ski super hard when I would come home for like the month of winter break, which was really nice. Um but yeah, then I feel like after school I I graduated in COVID and actually like you know, was um set to move to New York City and be a management consultant for this company called Air Up. And I did that for a bit, um, but was remote and living back in the Roanfork Valley and yeah, just sort of like fell back into the ways of like skiing 100 days a year, sort of thing, uh as you did like kind of growing up, and but yeah, entirely just touring rather than like going to the resort. And I feel like that just um really concretized my love of ski mountaineering and backcountry skiing. Um again, it was sort of like a revitalization, and then like also you're more you're more of a developed human, so like you can start to think about more of the things that you actually want to do. And um, yeah, I started just ski touring a bunch and trying to ski a variety of random mountains throughout Colorado, and um that has sort of like branched outside of Colorado since then. I've been lucky to ski in the Alps as well growing up, and um yeah, I I suppose I like dabble in mountain and ultrarunning as well, um rather unsuccessfully, and in all honesty. I think that I'm yeah, much more of like a ski mountaineer than uh um ultra runner, but I like to hang out with some of the ultrarunners, they're fun.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, interesting characters. Uh I got a question for you. So you uh I find this really interesting. So and I did I lurked your LinkedIn before this because and I had this question prepared about management consulting. Like I work a big boy job as well. Did you just decide you're like I don't, I'm not interested in this life and decided to go the route of a professional athlete and kind of live whatever that life wouldn't encompass and kind of left maybe that professional cubicle job behind? I know you said you were remote, but it's still corporate, it's a it's a just a different life than maybe the one you live now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um I think that I was super lucky with Sportiva to have the opportunity to step away from a standard job and have like enough financial backing to sort of explore what I could do for a little bit of time as a yeah, as a ski mountaineer. And yeah, I was I was lucky to like be able to step away and and do that in my 20s and have the opportunity to do that, but um that was like entirely because of my contract with Sportiva. And um yeah, I'll definitely go get a big boy job again. Um damn. Like so uh yeah, yeah, uh, but you know, that's uh everybody else has to.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, that's the game we gotta play, unfortunately. Um dude, you so you said before this, I don't know how much public you want this, but like you said, you were residing in and training out of Squamish. How do you like being there? I mean, I've heard from many people, Adam Campbell, Jesse McCauley, that it's it's kind of like mecca in a lot of ways for mountain athletes, like everybody's doing something awesome or is up to something pretty amazing. Um, yeah, how do you like training out of there and what's that life like?
SPEAKER_02:Dude, it's fucking rainy. It's miserable. No, just kidding. Uh squamish is actually it's uh beautiful, but it's rainy as fuck. Um I like left uh here in I don't know, sometime in October, because it was just like raining for like three weeks. And um, yeah, I just got back last week and to have like Thanksgiving up here to bring American Thanksgiving to the 51st state. No, just kidding.
SPEAKER_01:But uh yeah, um it's been raining since I got back, and uh maybe there's like snow up there, but I haven't went and checked.
SPEAKER_02:I'm like pretty tired right now, so okay. I'm just kinda I'm just kinda chilling. Um just been like swimming in the pool, actually. Since it's wet, like might as well just fucking stay wet.
SPEAKER_03:That's a great, great little like pastime to do. Are you do you like do that often for training? Like I know it's like aerobically awesome swimming, but no, I don't do it often at all.
SPEAKER_02:I think this is probably like the maybe fifth time I've swim for the year. Yeah. Which, like, you know, four of those times have been in like the past week.
SPEAKER_03:Nice. Well, maybe tell everybody where you got back from. Like, uh, other than that, like you were just uh you and David, I know David finished it, you went with um attempted the Tonto Traverse. Um the Tonto Traverse. Honestly, I had no idea it existed until David started talking about it on social media. Um, yeah, what was that all about? What was your situation like there? Did you have a good time? Like, what what went down? What unfolded?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. So I got this is why I like to say that I'm the unsuccessful Ultra Runner, is because I got uh I got humbled for sure. And David killed it. The Tonto Trail is a yeah, uh it's like a traverse of the Tonto Plateau, and um the Tonto Plateau is a plateau within the Grand Canyon. It's you know, depending on where you are on the south rim, it's either all the way down at the bottom of the canyon or kind of like three-quarters of the way down, and so it traverses from east to west via like a 94-mile stretch. Um just yeah, on this plateau in the canyon, and goes through a bunch of cool washes. Um yeah, it's a just a mega, mega trail and really far. The canyon is extremely unforgiving, um, which is like one of the most beautiful parts about it. And David and I wanted to do it kind of as like a little partner collab. We had sort of flirted about the idea last year, and then we were like, yeah, let's do it this year. And um, so we just like went down for November and trained a bunch in the canyon, which essentially just consisted of like doing a bunch of runs together, and um I suppose like I did a bit of backpacking with my girlfriend, um, which was fun, and to mix up the training. I can't run as much as David, but um nobody can.
SPEAKER_04:Well, very few people can.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And yeah, then we like went for the Tonto. I sat it kind of sucked because like our training was stupid. Um at this point in my life, like I'm kind of just like the way that I like to train is just to do a bunch of long adventure runs, getting ready for something, and then like maybe do a couple like threshold things or something, like a little ways out just to prime it. But um David was like, This is so stupid to just be doing like four super long runs before doing a hundred miles. I was like, whatever. Um and then my uh I like actually uh I was feeling super good after our like last long run. Um super solid and healthy. And then I did like some intensity actually, like five days out, and I injured myself, which was sucked. Um yeah, like pulled something in my uh it's in one of the tendons on like my around like the perennial of my soleus. Um and I, you know, kind of just like shut up and was like, uh, it'll be fine, it'll be fine. And then it was not it was not fine. I I blew up pretty hard around like I think like mile fifty or something. Um or like I think I blew up around like mile 40 and then kind of pushed through it like an idiot for like 25 miles, and then um and then was like David, you gotta go. And then David went and got the record. Um which is super cool. It was definitely like a bummer to not do it with him. Um but I think for me, like I honestly don't really care that much about the record. Like I just wanted to go the Tonto Trail, which I didn't, which sucks, and it's like super lame. Um But I got to do like I got to be on every part of the Tonto Trail except for like a three-mile section. So that's like kind of a win for myself. And I haven't even have I told you what the taunt yeah, I told you what the Tonto is.
SPEAKER_03:Tell me what it was. Yeah, it's I'd say that's the most I I knew about it up until going into this. I probably should have researched that was the one thing I didn't research before this conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, I think also something worth noting just to like um put it in perspective for like how cool David is. I mean, he's not that cool, like his ego is pretty big, but um, so just in case he hears this, no, he is super cool. Um, and the guy who the two people who had the Tonto FKT beforehand was uh Buck and Rob. And Rob is like pretty notorious in the ultra running community. He like won Western states one year, I believe. Um one of the best ever did it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's interesting to me. Um I don't know. Like I I've gotten over the the last year or so to like uh I to know more of like Jackson Cole and got to spend time with him with the races and stuff like that, and he's always spoken very highly of you. And he kind of tipped me off to one of the projects you and him and David were working on in the high route this you know, potentially this past summer. Um yeah, so I I just I find that that this trio of you three to be very interesting as you're all uh amazing athletes in your own right, and you all have like really cool stories to tell. Um yeah, maybe talk about that. You guys have a coaching business, you guys and I do want to go more into what happened with the high route because I heard you got like attacked by a bear or something before, or I heard some stories. So yeah, I don't know who you heard that from. I think I think David was the one who actually said that, or something, something happened this past summer. I don't know. But yeah, maybe talk about like that relationship and uh and all that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, um David is like kind of like a brother um at this point, even though we like I mean we don't really know each other that well, but we do we do at the same time. Um we just like met each other randomly, actually on like a mountain running route in the Canadian Rockies, which was kind of wonderful, and one of those interactions where you're like, huh, maybe this person is like meant to be in my life. I don't know. I like to think about things in that sort of way, and we just like ran together for I don't know, a week or so following that, or a week and a half, and that was last summer, or like the summer before this, this past one, summer of 24. And that was really fun and cool to get to know him, and I feel like when you when you spend a lot of time trying to get better at something, it's it's really nice to like share that process with somebody else because um there are plenty of like vulnerable moments, you know, where you um think you could be improving better in some regard, or like yeah, I don't know. We all care. Um, and so like David and I like bond over that quite a lot, just like caring a lot about the sport of ultra running and just like mountain endurance sports in general. Um and have yeah, just been like friends for each other over the past like year and a half. And Jackson and I have known each other for longer. Um, I feel like it but we like more so would run into each other at races, and I think just be like Jackson was always way faster than me. He's like a little spark plug. I'm more of like a he's so fast, yeah. It's ridiculous. I feel like it if I could perform at a race, it has to be like 40 miles or something, um, of where I could like maybe hold Jackson just because and I'd have to be in like very good form. Um But yeah, he's just like slow twitching it. Well, I guess I yeah, have just run into him at races, he always wins. I'm always like I don't go to that many races, but the ones that I watch him win, I'm usually like in the back. And then Jackson and I started running together more. Um and I we had some yeah, we just like had some fun and then I showed him how to ski tour a little bit and we had a lot of fun doing that too. And yeah, then I mean I figured that they would we would we all figured that we would be good partners to do the high route and then we like I don't know, it just fell apart.
SPEAKER_03:Damn. Do you think there there's a possibility this happens in the in the future? Could you guys put that together? That would be very cool because it seems like no one's really done it since Caitlin Gerbin and uh her partner attempted it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, it would be super cool to do, and I think that they would be good partners. Um yeah, we all have different strengths to bring to the table. Like Jackson is just a phenomenal mountain runner. Um super quick and speedy, light on his feet. I am a pretty decent mountaineer. Um and David has great endurance. I have great endurance too. Um, so like all three of us together works works well. It would be fun to do.
SPEAKER_03:Um it's just a slog for sure. Um did you guys like how much scouting did you guys get to do of the actual route?
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, so Jackson and I did the isolation traverse. So the route is like broken into three different sections: the Pickett's traverse, um the isolation traverse, and then the ptarmigan traverse, which with like an alteration at the very end to go to Stahegan rather than down Downey Creek. Um and Jackson and I did the isolation and then like the day after or something, we did the Torment Forbidden Traverse, which is just like more of a mountaineering and climbing traverse of some cool mountains that are like right there in the center of the universe of the North Cascades, and then did Forbidden by itself the day after, and then did like the Tarm again the following day just by myself. Um so yeah, which I would say is like half of it. Um yeah, and then I went to go check out the Pickett's traverse by myself, but actually had like kind of a shitty bear encounter and failed.
SPEAKER_03:So the bear encounter did happen. Alright, I was gonna ask you this. I heard there was a bear attack. I wasn't sure if they were bullshitting me. So that's what I was curious about.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, I got real scared out there.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, tell the story.
SPEAKER_02:What what what what went down? I'll have to save it for another day. Yeah. No, yeah. Just the universe is telling me. Not ready for you, boy. Go home.
SPEAKER_03:Is it a grizzly bear or a black bear? It was a black bear. Alright, well.
SPEAKER_04:It would have been crazier if it was a grizzly bear, or it could have been crazier if it was a grizzly bear. I don't know. You tell me.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. I've like run into like definitely over 20 grizzly bears just like by myself and never had an issue.
SPEAKER_04:I'm not a fan.
SPEAKER_02:Just yeah. Yeah, yeah. Never had an issue. I mean, I've like run into so many black bears, been like locked outside by like big brothers, you know, with like black bears in the backyard. Like the they're scared. You can scare them. But this one, he was not gonna be scared. Yeah. He was gonna scare me. So that's that's pretty much the story.
SPEAKER_04:Interesting.
SPEAKER_02:And then I bailed. Jackson and David had like bailed from doing the high route before that. That was actually sort of like my attempt to like go check out the pickets and maybe put it all together that summer. It's just way too big of a route to do by yourself. Yeah. Pers for me. Um yeah, I just think it's like really long. And uh But I would like to do it. It's uh it's super beautiful. Like the isolation and the ptarmigan traverses are spectacular. It was really fun doing those this year. And I think Jackson and I did the isolation in like 16 hours, and then um the pharmiguan and like I did it in like 10. Um and so it would be cool. Like, I mean, some really good like mountain and ultra runners. Not saying it will be us, but like somebody could totally do it in like two or three days. Interesting.
SPEAKER_03:I the only reason I asked is I I've never been in there in that terrain at all. And it just that uh the documentary that was made on it made it seem so out there and just like so wild. Uh so that that definitely had some intrigue.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it is kind of out there. Um yeah, I think I think that it is. I mean the pharmigan traverse doesn't feel very out there because like there are so many people that are on it. But if you're not used to like glaciated terrain and the like, then it certainly feels out there. But like every time that I went on it, you can um you can just like follow the footsteps. But the isolation, nobody was there's no footsteps, there weren't any like steps. I'm sure yeah, plenty of other people do it. Pickets, I don't think, get very much traffic. Um and the pickets are harder to get to just because like you have to take a boat or like do an illegal border crossing, which is like not allowed right, or it's like not kosher to do right now. So the boat is kind of the way to do it, which obviously like adds a logistical component that a lot of people can't make happen. Um and for this, like and for the particular start of the high route this year, you had to take a boat and then like take a little raft across the lake by yourself. So a little bit more complicated, even further because of low water levels this year. I would like to do it. I don't know if they would want to do it.
SPEAKER_03:I have no idea. Like I said, I think you guys are just interesting, the three of you. So it's it'd be it's I I don't know. It's like a cool, cool group of people doing cool stuff. I don't know. That was kind of a very broad statement, but I think it was uh I don't know. It'd be cool to see you guys do more. Um, especially, I don't know, with your YouTube background and stuff like that, it'd be cool to see more. I don't know, you guys make videos and do cool shit like that. Makes it kind of fun.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I've been I've been thinking about like making a YouTube video or something like that about Jackson and I's little like isolation and torment traverse thing, and then me doing the tarmigan like the day after. But um yeah, I guess I just haven't. No, they're been thinking about making another YouTube video as well, but it's just um it's nice to hear when people like like them because boy, I hate it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I was well, that's what I was gonna ask you. Like, how do you feel about that? I mean, I asked you the question very early on in this conversation. You seem more like uh you put that stuff out there on YouTube, obviously, but obviously people are more calculated with what they put out into the world. Um, but you also come across as kind of a private person. Like, how do you how do you work with that? Like, how do you I guess tussle with being able to put stuff out into the world like that and then maybe not?
SPEAKER_02:Um yeah, I think it was it's I think that if I put something out there, I'm just gonna like kind of go AWOL. Not is AWOL the right word? Just like incognito afterwards because I don't really want to like hear what people have to say about it. I don't really care. It's like not the reason for doing it. I think the reason for doing it, for doing something is to like do it. And then yeah, if there's like a story to tell about it, it's to my intention is definitely to like share that story and to hopefully inspire some people. Um yeah, and I think that it would be nice to like I don't know. I just struggle with social media in all honesty. I just think that there are so many like rad people out there that are not posting anything on social media that are doing really challenging things and like don't get credit. Um and so and I think that social media can be like sort of like an ego-boosting thing, which I find to be dangerous. Like, I I think it can also like make you sort of lazy if you like rest on your laurels and like use social media to rest on your laurels. So I've sort of like I feel like just like wanted to like be pretty conscious of that, and like if you post something, you know, just like not really see what people say about like you know, oh you're red, or like you're the man, or like you know, there's probably one dude who's gonna be like, you suck. And like it's probably good just to like not read either of those things, like the positive or the negative, just because it's so fucking disingenuous.
SPEAKER_03:Do you see it more as like I don't know, uh is it is maybe your art, like whether it's a ski route that you're putting up that you're talking about or something related to running when you're making I don't know, maybe we could talk about like the Elks Traverse, for example, the video you made on that. Like, do you do you see that more as your art and you putting that out into the world and you just don't give a shit what somebody has to say about it because it's your thing? And the second you pay attention to what other people have to say about it, then it kind of uh maybe taints uh your art going forward or or how you view something. Because that's something I've tussled with myself, and I think about this a lot when it comes to the podcast. Don't pay attention to what other people have to say, good or bad, because it's all just bullshit, whether one way or another. Like you're always gonna have haters, but you're also gonna have people that tell you this is great too. And either way, it's not helping you get to what you want to do, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think that like if um if there's something that needs to be talked about in terms of like any type of art form, I would not consider my like YouTube and like videos like to be you know art.
SPEAKER_03:I would say I mean more with the routes, like the your athletic endeavor. I mean it's more as the art.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks. Um I do care what other people have to say because like it's nice to but I don't care what like the armchair alpinist on YouTube has to say, if that makes sense. Um and I think I I care a lot about what people have to say, actually. Like, particularly like you know, somebody like David. I I really care about what David has to say about like you know, me not finishing the Tonto. I care a lot, but like um or how I approach like a specific route. Um or maybe the storytelling to like go with a specific route like that. I I do care about that. I think that you want to be able to like surround yourself with the comments where people are giving you the time of day to like actually think about it. And it's um I think just when you like put yourself out there publicly on the internet, it just becomes a place for mayhem and like all care to kind of go out the window, and not like care as in like caring and kindness, but like care as in like being sort of mindful about your thoughts and actions and words and um so yeah, I think that's how I like engage with social media. I don't know. It's all it's also like just um I think why I've stepped away from YouTube is like it's uh it's too much of a trip for me to be recognized by somebody. But I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:So have you have you been stopped before? And someone's like, hey, that's that's Michael Worth. Can I like I I love what you're doing? Like how I find that very weird. I have been stopped before, and I find that very strange, and I don't like it. I I you probably much more to the degree than I have. So how do you deal with that?
SPEAKER_02:I've always tried to just like ask people, like, what's your deal? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, what's good with you, man? What's your name? I don't I don't you don't need to fucking hear about me.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, it's happened a bit like in some backcountry spots. Um but I think it's also like cool. I mean, I couldn't imagine what it'd be like to be an actual celebrity.
SPEAKER_03:Well, Anton. I always find Anton like obviously that's different, that's a degree lower, but like, dude, Tony like can't go anywhere without someone hassling him. It's kind of interesting. Yeah, I mean, I find it like I don't know. And then yeah, if you're an actual celebrity, yeah, fuck that, dude. I think for me, it's more so the things that people have to say on social media. Like you said, like people really have no, like they don't care. Like, I had someone recently say something to me about like the way I pronounced a word, and I was like, dude, you didn't take in anything into accountability the entire like body of work that I just did for that hour and a half episode. That's what you care is about how I pronounced a word. Like, seriously, yeah, people always gonna have their things to say, so I couldn't imagine that like at like the smallest of level, or at the sorry, like super magnified, if you will, where everyone wants to know more about you, or everyone wants to know what you're up to. Yeah, I I yeah, I don't like that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I think we get, or I I I don't know if we, but I definitely get into my own head about like just being private, or like, I don't know, it's not even being private, it's just like, yeah, I don't know, putting something out there and like you know, having people. But of course, social media has its valuable uses, and I think the direction of like I I think honestly something that Jackson, David, and I get on really well about is like recognizing the fallacy that is social media and not like I guess not buying into it as much. You know, I definitely bought into it a little bit with like making YouTube videos and like um or for sure I bought into it. Like it's definitely what helped me get like be a quote unquote pro athlete. Um and it's a valuable tool, and I think that that's like the direction that the industry is going, is that if you want to be a quote unquote pro athlete, like you have to utilize social media in some regard and arguably be pretty good at it. And uh yeah, I think David and Jackson their social media is definitely a test to it better than mine. Mine is a bit more curated. Um yeah, but I don't I don't think that's anything about effort level. I think that's just like output. Um yeah, we all three of us think it's a fucking shit show. Like it is the amount of weight that is like put on social media to determine like someone's paycheck as an athlete is like ridiculous and shouldn't be that way. Um it should be based off of merit. And I think another thing that's like really bad about social media is that you have a lot of like old cats that aren't doing jack as an athlete, um and that are just like getting money uh to which is just too bad. It's like it support some like 17-year-old who can like do a triple backflip, you know, like give him a grand a month. Imagine like how stoked he's gonna be to like do something, um or she. So that's kind of like I think the problem with social media is it just like sort of creates like these whale figures in the outdoor sport world, from my opinion.
SPEAKER_03:I agree. Well, it's weird, right? Like, and this is something I think we tussle with. I I find this conversation particularly interesting in the trail running world. I don't know how it is in the ski world or the ski mountaineer world, but like I don't know. Like if you look at, for instance, like climbing, if you're a big well-known climber, you have a massive social media presence and you're constantly putting out stuff. I don't know if you're doing it yourself or if someone's doing it for you. But usually, I mean, you look at like Margot Hayes, you look at obviously Alex Ronald's probably a bad example, but most of the larger name climbers all have massive social media followings. And they're kind of an influencer in a lot of ways, and they're putting stuff on YouTube and they're doing that, and they're playing that game. Whereas like I find a lot more, I don't know, maybe iconoclasts in the trail running space, but we're like, fuck this. Uh I think in kind of to what you said, it should be more based, and I very much come from this campus, it should be more off of merit than if you can take a really good photo. But also, are you conveying that story? It's like kind of the game you have to play as a professional athlete to be a professional athlete, which makes it kind of it's kind of like, I don't know, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth kind of thing. It's it makes it very interesting to be a professional athlete. Like they want you to post, they want you to do this, they want you to do that. Um It's weird. It's a very weird game, and I find it very, a very nuanced argument in trail running.
unknown:Hmm.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I I do totally agree. Like it it the part of it is being able to tell a cool story, and like there are people that are like killing it with that. And I think that's why YouTube is actually kind of like cooler than Instagram, is because you can actually like tell a story. Um, and there are some like cool YouTubers that also make dope films that are extremely talented. Um I mean, in all honesty, I shouldn't be even like saying anything about this because I I've just sort of like forfeited my YouTube development. So um now I'm just an armchair, armchair hater, not even in the game hating, just from the outside. Uh but yeah, it is about telling stories.
SPEAKER_03:That's part of it. I want to pivot a little bit and ask you about FKT versus racing on the mountain running scene. I know you've never been, I mean, obviously you've set course records, like you have the course record at TMR, like if Done a pretty solid body of work on the racing scene, but obviously I would say you're probably in the mountain running community more well known for your FKTs. Uh what inspires you more about the FKT scene versus like the racing circuit?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I don't think that I'm actually like inherently that competitive of a person with other people. I think that I'm super competitive with myself. But yeah, I've never like been super jazzed about like beating someone. Um and I think that yeah, FKTs are just cooler because they're like in inherently in cooler places. Um races are also completely contrived where they are just like, I don't know, a couple loops on a bike trail or something. Whereas like FKTs like, you know, it makes a lot of sense. Go to the top of the mountain and come back down, sort of thing. Um, or like traverse like this like piece of land. So I think FKTs make a bit more sense to me in terms of like what you're actually going out there to do rather than like rather than just like going out to like exercise and have a fitness test, you're like going out to yeah, discover a piece of of the earth and like see how quickly you can move across it. Um so that's been what has like drawn me to FKTs. Um and I think yeah, the cool thing about FKTs also is like they do provide a bit more adventure than a race, you know, depending on which one they are. Um oftentimes like you have to organize your own logistics or or just like carry in a food. So that's why I like FKTs. Um, I think people like to make fun of FKTs uh as like you know, just like being a try hard on like something that you don't really need to be a tryhard on, but it's nice to try hard, and like I think it's one of the most fun ways that I've found to try hard as an adult, um, is just like going as hard as you can, like up and down a mountain and seeing how your time kind of compares to your time, or maybe like when I was younger growing up in Carbondale, seeing how like my times were so far away from like Tony's times um in the Elks, because he put up like some fast times there when he was super fit, and like just watching my times get like closer and closer was cool. And then you're also just like running on mountains and like falling down them. It's yeah, it's it's good old boyish fun. It is good fun.
SPEAKER_03:It's interesting. I I don't know, I've been particularly like critical of FKT in recent years, mostly because of the Michelino situation and everything that went down with the grant, but I still very much feel that FKT is the soul of our sport, and like I'm friends with a lot of people that are very much embedded in that scene and love that scene. And I I hope it's something the sport never loses. Like, I feel like the ra the sport has gotten so damn professional in the last few years that we've seen a shift almost more to this uh everything being just professional racing circuit-wise, or everything's more optimization. And I hope that we can like maintain this world that is like you versus you on any given day in a mountain or you know, on a mountain and trying to do your best. And uh yeah, I wonder if that will like I think it'll persevere, but I I I fear that it might not in a in a race in a sport that maybe becomes an Olympic sport or just continues to change year after year.
SPEAKER_02:Totally. Yeah, I think like we should all want to be like trail slash mountain runners for the purpose of like really thoroughly enjoying it. Um because if we like wanted to if you want to like do a fitness test, go be a road cyclist. Um yeah, like if you want to see how many watts you can put out that is like compared to how skinny you are, go be a road cyclist. Like and you also want to see how like well you can handle, yeah, like go be a road cyclist. But um, for like the hippie dippies who want to just like frolic around in the woods, like yeah, make it kind of about that. Um I think that trail running and mountain running and mountaineering, um, you know, they're different. Um but like ski mountaineering, I think this is like genre of just like traveling on your feet in the mountains, uh, is very much about like it's something that's very like important in and of itself. I I think about things like in terms of Kant's categorical and hypothetical imperatives a lot, whether like something is in and of itself important or like just a means to an end. And I think like if you get too caught up on fitness um in just like winning a race, it's always just like a means to an end and just like chasing a goal. And yeah, that certainly is like the direction that trail running is going with UTMB and the like, is just like, yeah, get as fit as you possibly can, do the workouts that you need to in order to improve your lactate threshold and running economy, and then like go try to rip it at UTMB, um, which is fine, but it's like yeah, would be kind of cooler to have like the center stage of trail and mountain running be something that is like more measured on one's capacity to like hop across boulders, you know, just because it's like that's like kind of what the sport should be, or like I think what a lot of people in like the previous generation kind of set it up to be. I think that's sort of like what Killian would represent, is it's the capacity to move throughout mountains, and like Anton definitely showed that um to my generation as well in the States. It's like it's the capacity to move amongst mountains. Um yeah, and if you're like trying to measure the capacity to move amongst mountains, it's not just a a fitness test, it's a test of how like present you can be and how aware you can be within both your body and the environment. Um so yeah, I think like turning back to that would be would be ideal, and I think there's totally a way to do that. Um I I think that it is like yeah, prioritizing FKTs and stuff like that. Also, like there are so many super cool races out there that I don't even know of. Um David would be like a much better resource to talk about that. Um yeah, and yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Curious, you for you coming up over the last few years in the sport. Yo, can you say that again? Sorry. You coming up over the in the last few years of the sport, who inspired you? Like who who who like do you look to for inspiration in sport?
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, I look to road cyclists for sure. Um are you joking or are you being serious? No, like dead ass, yeah. I think road cycle road cyclists are real men. Leave the real men stuff to them. That's why we have to do in and of itself, man. We just have to be happy every day. Whereas like those road cyclists, they can suffer day in and day out and wait for that tour de friends win. They're like more developed. Um no, I think road cycling is really, really inspiring for fitness and um also like technical capacity. Boy, those boys can go fast.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I mean, I think yeah, road cycling is undoubtedly like the pinnacle of aerobic performance. So I like to look at that. And then I think like Cameron Horst really inspires me. Um, he's a sick climber. The Duray brothers really inspire me. They're super cool. Um Ian Buttons really inspires me. He's like a really rad ski mountaineer out of Revel Stoke. Logan, Logan Logan, super rad splitboard mountaineer. Um yeah, Taylor Sullivan, strong mountain athlete all all around. I think just people that I've like have shown me how to do some things and bring a lot of stoke to the sports that they do, and um yeah, those are the people that have inspired me.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, and you came into the sport and you've done some like really wild shit, like the Elks Traverse FKT, uh, Hatrick, you set the first record of TMR. Like you've done some really crazy things, especially on the FKT scene. Do you feel pressure to have to like stay at that level or repeat or do big shit? Or is it more let me just go out and do the things that get me stoked? Like, do you ever feel the need to have to do something as big as like when you when you broke the elkstraverse record? I feel like that was a huge deal. There was a lot of media around it, not just for yourself, but like uh newspaper articles, trailrunner mags, stuff like that. Like, did you do you feel the need to have to try and like repeat stuff like that?
SPEAKER_02:Um it's actually really interesting that you asked me that because being in Squamish, I I just moved here in um the middle of this past summer um from a small town in Washington. And I currently like don't feel any sort of inspiration to do anything in the coast range. I just like have no emotional connection to these mountains, and so like sitting at home and um yeah, like learning how to play the guitar or something is like almost more no, I'm just kidding. Like I I just don't have like a lot of emotional connection to these mountains, so it's not like I'm like, oh, I like really need to go do this thing because I've been like dreaming about it since I was like six years old, and oh my god. Um whereas like the Elks, you know, I was like lucky enough to like grow up there and hike with um my friends and stuff and my parents, and um yeah, it just was like makes sense to like be super inspired by these mountains and like want to do stuff in them. It's also sunny in Colorado all the time, so like you know, you don't have to be a lot of rain. But um yeah, no, I think that the coolest thing that like the elks kind of brought me was that it was never a it was never a um external pressure, it was always like internal of just feeling yeah, stoked to like go check out these places and like see what type of experience I could have in these places, and like yeah, that was always the inspiration. And I think funny enough, actually, like once I got picked up by Sportiva, um I think probably like yeah, after being with them for like a year and a half, I really started to like weigh fuck, what should I do for them? Like, what would be the cooler thing to do for like someone else? And that's when it all like I don't know, went down the drain. No, I mean I I don't think that it went down the drain, but like it's nice to find something that just means something to you, you know? Um and I think when you find that it doesn't really like matter what uh other people think, and because you're just like out there doing it for you, um and so it's gonna be like happy no matter what, and probably inspiring no matter what, and um yeah, I think like I always viewed the Elks Traverse to be like this like I don't know, big thing, not always, but like the time that I had known about it, I was like, oh, this is like super big, and like I did that like ski thing of like skiing the 13ers and the Elks, and Carly, this woman at the time that I was hanging out with a bunch, she was like when I was sort of doubtful about being able to do the Elkstraverse, she was like, Bro, you like skied all the 13ers, you can like totally do this. I was like, Huh, maybe I should try to do this, and um then I just like you know, really only spent like a month sort of getting ready for it. Of course, I had been like aerobically training with like skiing, but not like I was like, you know, planning six months out to like do the Elkstraverse or something, um, and like really training specifically for it, just kind of like being fit and then month out get ready for it. And um yeah, it like went well. I you know beat Ricky's record and um which I think was like sort of cool at the time, and then Sammy Hamilton just like destroyed it, which was awesome. He's quite a legend. It would be nice to go back and get it back. I'd have to like be a good boy for like a year um to do that.
SPEAKER_03:But what do you mean by good boy? Do you mean like just like eat, sleep, and drink it, spend as much time at altitude? Like what what do you define by good good boy? Yeah, just have a good year of training.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, just be a good boy, you know, just like do your uh do your threshold days and do your VO2 days and do some strength and go skiing all winter and go running all summer, do some climbing? Be a good boy, be a good boy.
SPEAKER_03:I uh I you said in the beginning of the conversation you're like shit, I I go get a go get a big boy job and do that life. Do you do you still feel the call to the reason I ask this is like do you do you prefer to just be a sponsored athlete or do you do you want to go the route of you know go get a big boy job and play that game? Like like where do you what what calls you in life right now? Like what would you rather be doing, or what do you want to be doing? Well, dude, I got dropped by Sportiva last year. No, I know, I know. That's kind of where I was where I was going with that. But like, do are you do you do you want to continue to be a professional athlete and play that game, or do you want to be um or do you want to just go the route of more of your what you did in your degree and and work you know work a regular job?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think um I would like to uh really put me on the spot here, hey guys. Sorry, I don't know. Um no, yeah. I think that I want to be a farmer and uh yeah, just work hard. And uh you know, one of the best fellow runners in the world was just a shepherd. So I'm gonna go down his life path. I would like to work in some sort of like climate tech um down the line, like climate tech acceleration um as like an advisor. And yeah, but right now I don't really have an interest in being like a pro athlete. Interesting. I like it, it's fun, and I feel like I can do some things that other people can't, but um, I think a lot of people can like.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Is there anything, honestly?
SPEAKER_03:It is a hard question. I don't know. That's what that's what I'm here for, dude. To ask the hard questions, get you thinking. Um what what's next for you as far as like any any big goals like on the FKT scene or ski scene? And I know you said the the mountains don't like these specific mountains in the squam sherry don't really call to you, but any summer objectives that you have? I know it's like probably poor form to spray, but is there anything that like you have your eye on, maybe adjacently right now?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, if those fuckers want to do the high route, I'd be down to get ready for that. I was so fit for that. I was so ready, I was so dialed. But um, whatever. Um, yeah, I would like to do that. But like, yeah, and you know, there's so many other things as well. Um I would like to ski some stuff this winter. I had like a fun winter last year skiing stuff, and the winter before was also really good. I skied a bunch of things. Um yeah, so I'll definitely ski a bunch of stuff this year, hopefully. Um but I think like yeah, also I don't think that I yeah, we'll be able to like dedicate the amount of time that I have to it um this next year that I have for the past five. So yeah, I'm probably like past my prime. I I don't think that I'm past my prime like physically, but just in terms of like time and commitment, it's a it's a lot. I think especially with skiing, like running, you can undoubtedly do at a really high level with a full-time professional job. Um skiing is different though. You gotta like be pretty aware of what's going on in the snow and also have the flexibility of schedule to go when it's good. Um and I think also just like get in getting into the at least for me, like sort of getting into the mindset of like sending big stuff is um and just like being comfortable in exposure takes time, a lot like a lot of time, um, I've found for me. But uh I would really like to ski some like big lines throughout the next yeah, 10 to 20 years and just keep doing ultra stuff. Um but I think probably like yeah, contribute to society in other ways as well as sort of like so I I would I would like to be a professional athlete in like a a little bit less of an invested way, but also work in something that I find interesting, which I've been being an athlete over this past year, which has been nice. And the tonto is like, yeah, nice to get back from that.
SPEAKER_03:I like it. I like it. I I dude, I I I kind of switched gears for this one last question. I this is something I meant to ask you earlier in Kabil. Up my mind. Schemo. Like, what's your take? Because you are a ski mountaineer. It's obviously a completely different thing with schemo and racing and that whole scene. Like, what's your take on that whole scene? Is that like a thing you're not interested in? Like, you're more obviously like it's a completely different thing for you. Like, is that something you'd ever do, or is that a completely different thing for you?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, I think it'd be really fun to go do some of the grand tour uh stage races in Europe.
SPEAKER_03:Like Pyramenta and stuff like that. Those dude, this some of the stuff in there is really sick, like with the beer ferratas and stuff. It's kind of dope.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, I think that would be really cool in like PDG. Um yeah, I suppose we have some cool ones in the States, like Power 4 and Aspen, and um yeah, I think those are are really awesome races and like great ways to interact out outdoors. Um I don't really know how the like sprint and stuff, like how the Olympic formats even work. I've never watched a race, so that probably like indicates my interest level. Um seems like the people that do it are are quite fit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Ken's a beast, dude. Griffin's a beast. Guys and girls are killers, dude.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, like going to the Olympics for it, that's super rad. Yeah, but it's definitely like a different sport than ski mountaineering. I mean, you know, even just thinking about it like physiologically, you've got like a completely glycolytic sport, which would be like the sprinting versus you know, more mountaineering is kind of like entirely oxidative.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, throwing some throwing some some coaching words out there. I like it. Dude, I saw I meant to ask you about this too. I I you posted something a while ago. It was like uh I think you were in the Grand Canyon training, and I think it was when I don't know if you still work with Evoke or whatever, when you were with a coach, and dude, you like put up your week and it was it was like stupid, like how much like like volume and like work that you were doing. I was like, damn, this guy's fit. Like you were you were doing some crazy shit. Do you still do you still train like that at all or no? Like is it more yeah, that's how I train.
SPEAKER_02:Like that's how I train every week. Um but um yeah, especially like in Mazama, that's how I train. Um or in Canmore. I mean, I'm personally just like feeling quite lazy right now because like the past 10 days have been my like 10 day rest period for the year. Um just to sort of like let the body reset. Um but yeah, I I train like that. I I just am used to it and I like doing like double threshold days, and that's a that was a big week for sure. Um but in all honesty, like last summer, uh I mean it's just like that's how it is all that's how it is most of the time. Um yeah. And I think that's why I can sort of like occasionally like whip out a good performance with something. Um but it's also why I'm like chronically fatigued. Or not chronically, yeah. I think that I am just like a bit fatigued, but that's not good. I mean hey, we're all tired. I get it, I get it. Um, I mean it's fun, it's fun to like push your body and and see what you can do, and I think that I can handle a lot more like I can handle a lot of volume like back to back to back to back. But that's just like I think that's kind of like what I like to do is um just go like pretty hard every day. Um and because it's you know it coincides with like living a full life and getting to see a lot of stuff. And David trains like that as well. Where you know, whereas I think like people that are faster than us train more intelligently, um where they do like, you know, a lot of zone one and then like yeah, aren't over training and then hit it hit it hard when they need to and do their like yeah, one threshold session a week that is actually like an hour of threshold. Um I think if you incorporate the treadmill you can uh you can really accomplish like some significant suffering. Yes. Same with bikes.
SPEAKER_03:Um I feel like it it I gotta be outside on the bike though, like the indoor bike. Like I I struggle with the so bad, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean I've been doing these like workouts. Uh I'm not working with the Voke anymore. Um but I've been doing some workouts from a coach he's been helping me out, uh, who works at Uphill Athlete, and he uh has been having me do these these workouts he calls the man of man workouts. They make me feel like a little ch a little baby though.
SPEAKER_04:What you gotta you gotta talk about this. What is this?
SPEAKER_02:It's like 45 minutes of like 30 seconds full gas, followed by like 15 seconds rest, and by the end I'm or by like you know 10 sets I'm like crying and then I have like you know 50 more to go. Um I think it's a VO2 or or it undoubtedly is a VO2 max workout. Um but yeah, like do those in the morning and then do like a some type of threshold thing in the afternoon. I'm not sure if it works though, um, or if it like works. I guess it depends on what you're training for. But um yeah, the indoor bike sucks. I like biking outside. And I think that like yeah, the treadmill and the indoor bike have been things that I've like incorporated into working working out over the past like two years, you know, outside of like being at college and needing to get like a workout in. Um but like more specifically for like, oh, I have like the time to go run outside, but instead it's nice and I'm gonna run on the treadmill because like this is what my coach wants me to do. Stupid. Yeah, I think that you can get a lot more um benefit of like doing it outside.
SPEAKER_03:Uh we got a ton of snow this week and I moved on to the the treadmill for a couple days. I was so sore from the treadmill and I don't know why. It's like what the fuck?
unknown:That's impressive.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's very weird. And I I mean I generally only run outside, so it's the first time I've been on a treadmill in months, but yeah, I don't know. Did three days of it in a row and I'm like barely walked this morning. I was like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think just like do what you enjoy, in all honesty. And like if you don't like the indoor bike, then like don't ride the indoor bike. But like if you like like my best friend from college loves the indoor bike. Loves it.
SPEAKER_03:It's a rare form of suffering, dude. You gotta really be mentally there with it to want to do that. But yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe you have planned for this year.
SPEAKER_03:Uh well, cirque series races, I'll be at Broken Arrow, the Rut, stuff like that. Um maybe one international race. We'll see what happens. Um, right now I really I'm very intrigued by wanting to perform very well at at least two Cirque series races. Um, so I'm very locked into that. It's probably a stupid goal, but it is what it is. Broken Arrow, I'll be at because I have to do coverage for the podcast. So I'll probably jump in maybe the maybe a race. We'll see. I might do the 23K, but I feel like that's another thing I gotta be super locked in for in order to have like any form of performance. And I can't be distracted by doing uh podcast stuff. So I still gotta figure that out, and then definitely the rut, I'll definitely be at speedgoat, stuff like that. So most of the big US mountain races um I'll be at in one way or another, whether it's racing or uh or coverage for the podcast.
SPEAKER_02:So cool, yeah, it's a good community. We need to like have some more races that are um like sky races, that would be super cool. I would love that.
SPEAKER_03:This is like a whole thing I'm working on now. So I just had on uh uh this girl Robin, uh PW girl. Um we were talking about US sky racing, and like it's this whole thing where we've got like multiple, I don't think we're ever gonna get sky racing in the United States. I mean, we'll see what happens, but like there's this ISF arm that's like USA skyrunning, and then there's like World Skyrunner series that wants to come in the United States, and it's like there's too much so much politics. And I'm working on a podcast actually right now for it to like get more information out there to people and just show like what the fuck is going on. Um, but yeah, it's a mess. I I don't think we're ever gonna get a US sky running race. Maybe, maybe, but I I seriously doubt it. Uh like something like Minotaur, dude, how sick would that be? I mean, that's an amazing race, but I don't think we'd ever get something like that. It's possible, but I I have my doubts.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's just hard with like regulation in the US. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, regulation permitting the whole situation, like with wild wilderness zones and stuff like that. Like maybe in the Wasatch you could do something. Like if the Cirque series could, for instance, put on like uh like their Alaska race, that Alaska race is sick. Like, so maybe Alaska has opportunity uh to put on something. Um, but maybe the Wasatch, but I think that's like the only place in the lower 48 you could pull it off, is in the Wasatch. Outside of that, I think it'd be incredibly difficult. Like, definitely not in Colorado, it's too high, and uh everything outside of Pike's Peak, I think, is mostly uh it's all wilderness, if I if I'm not mistaken.
SPEAKER_02:So but it's so awesome that we have so much wilderness in the US.
SPEAKER_03:I think that's a great thing. Yeah, I'm not saying anything against that. I totally agree. Like it's great that we protect that stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah. Because it makes the access to the outdoors like so good. Yeah. And um that that have like epic trails that go to like places where nobody's at, that is like all over the US. Super cool. Actually, like, yeah, I love that about the states.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, our systems are uh amazing. It's funny. I was just in the White Mountains over the summer and uh like in New Hampshire and Vermont and playing around up there, and even that's a sick area that I think is just like totally like overlooked, and like obviously we'll never get any races in the White Mountains just because the it's all wilderness area as well. But it's uh we've got a lot to offer in the United States that I think it people overlook. And you know, you look at Europe and you're like, well, they don't really have a ton of wildlife, they don't really have a lot of things because it's all overdeveloped, and you know, none of the mountains are really that remote anymore. It's kind of different. Some places are obviously, but um yeah, the US just like has this wildness to it that I'm glad that we protected so much of it because it'll be you know, we'll hold on to it for a while.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, no, it's sweet, man. Yeah. People that yeah, they've done good work, and then you like go to the canyon and there are like these crazy trails out in the middle of nowhere, and you're like, what?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh thanks for putting this here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's yeah, it's unique. Uh I don't know. I'm like a weird wildlife guy. I'm always interested in the animals and stuff, so like I'm always like Googling, like, oh well, that's why I always I brought up the bear thing with you, because I'm like fascinated by grizzly bears and like wolverines and shit. So like anytime someone's got a good bear story or like a Wolverine story, I'm like, oh, please tell it on the podcast because it's interesting. But yeah, and I feel like we've that's a rare thing we have in the states that we protected some of that stuff, and can't say that for other countries. So yeah, sweet. Well, dude, we're at about time now. Thank you so much for coming on, man. I really appreciate your time. I appreciate the conversation, and uh yeah, man, you're you're one of a kind. I'm glad I finally got to have you on. I've always been interested in like who is this Michael Wirth character that everyone seems to know that I haven't met yet, and I'm glad we were able to do this.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, dude. Thanks for having me. Maybe one day my um training like a hero will amount to some some cool thing, and you can talk to me about that, but helpful. So take it easy. Appreciate it, dude.
SPEAKER_04:Have a good one. All right, sweet. This is Dad.
SPEAKER_03:Well, what'd you guys think? Oh man, want to give a big shout out to Michael. Uh, he's super appreciative of his time and uh yeah, what a fun conversation. Um, interesting cat, super fun guy. Um, guys, the best way you could support him, give him a follow on Instagram. I'll also link his YouTube to the show notes. Um, but you could find him on Instagram at Michael Cworth. You could also find him at Michael Worth uh in YouTube. And like I said, just pan on over to the show notes, give him a follow. I'm sure he'd be super appreciative of that. Uh, guys, if you enjoyed the episode or if you've been enjoying the podcast, um, if you wouldn't mind, give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you consume your podcast, that'd be amazing. Um, we do ask that you guys give us a review. It's how we can continue to tell these great stories, it's how we can get more uh discoverability, whatever that is, and uh get this podcast out to the world. Very, very last but not least, um, if you enjoyed this episode, please support our brain partner, Ultimate Direction. If you are in the market for a vest, belt, or any type of hydration solution, Ultimate Direction's got you covered. Use code Steep Stuff Pod. That's right, one word, Steep Stuff Pod. That's gonna get you 25% off your car at ultimate direction.com. Appreciate it, guys. Thanks so much.
