The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Short Trail
The Steep Stuff Podcast
State of the Steep Stuff
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Trail running deserves sharper storytelling than recycled podium posts. We open the books on Steep Stuff: what we botched in 2025, what finally clicked, and how we’re going big on short trail in 2026. James and guest host Francesco get specific about the pivot from clunky Zoom reels to clean Riverside workflows, a fresh brand identity, and a quality-first mindset that actually scales. The result is a clear plan: show up at Broken Arrow, The Rut, Cirque Series stops, and championships with interviews, previews, and expert analysis that make racing feel immediate and worth following.
We talk about the gaps in trail running media and how to close them—more curiosity, fewer safe takes, and real coverage of prize money, anti-doping, and the business forces shaping athletes’ careers. The goal isn’t just reporting results. It’s star building. If more fans know why Christian Allen, Ana Gibson, or Lauren Gregory matter, the sport grows and athletes land better contracts. That means tighter formats, smarter co-hosts who’ve raced at the top, and video storytelling that highlights training, tactics, and personalities long before a breakout podium.
You’ll also hear what’s next for the platform: a new show under the Steep Stuff umbrella, on-site commentary and interviews, and a revamped approach to awards that gives short trail its own spotlight. We get personal about balancing training with production, why breathwork and calmer stimulus make workouts cleaner, and how structure beats hustle when you’re building something real. The promise we keep coming back to: this is the worst the product will be. From here, coverage, quality, and community presence only rise.
If you care about where short trail is heading—and how media can help it get there—press play, share it with a friend who loves mountain running, and leave a quick rating or review so we can keep building this together.
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Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello. And guys, today I'm so excited to bring you a special presentation of the show. This time with co-host Mr. Francesco Sanceri. And he was kind enough to join me for a state of the steep stuff podcast. That's right, state of the steep stuff. Yeah, we get into all kinds of fun stuff. The bad, the things we did bad in 2025, the things we have planned for 2026, the goods, the bads, the ugly, all kinds of good stuff, perspectives on the sport. And yeah, just kind of where things are at and where I want to take things. I think it was really important to have a conversation like this and show the audience and show you guys just kind of where my thinking is and what I want to do with the show. I think I owe it to you guys, given your support and everything you've done to support the show over the last few years, that uh it's pretty cool to kind of show you the direction we're going in and some of the fun things we have planned over the next few months into 2026 and kind of what we'll be doing as far as uh just coverage-wise and beyond. So I hope you guys enjoy this one. Uh giant thank you to Francesco for coming on and uh kind of being our co-host and or guest host, really, and uh helping me narrate and kind of guiding me along in the conversation. So without further ado, the State of the Steep Stuff podcast.
SPEAKER_00:What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm Francesco Censeri, and this episode, I'm stepping in as guest host for a special State of the Steep Stuff conversation. If you've been around Trail Running Media in the last couple of years, you already know today's guest and the Steep Stuff host, James L'Oriello, the guy behind Steep Stuff, one of the few platforms in the sport that actually tries to tell stories instead of just reposting podium photos and regurgitating the same tired nonsense. Today, we're doing something a little different. We're not here to hype races or recap splits. We're pulling back the curtain on the podcast itself. What worked, what blew up, what was kind of a mess, and where James wants to take the steep stuff in 2026. This is basically the annual report, except honest. James, let's get into it. How you doing, man?
SPEAKER_01:What's up, dude? Thank you. First of all, thank you so much. It was an amazing intro. And uh yeah, just so excited to uh have you back on, catch up. Um, you know, I think most people know that listen to the show that like, you know, you're my boy. So it's fun to just catch up and have a conversation and talk about the show and uh yeah, kind of recap all the things we fucked up in 2024 and 2025 and what we want to do in 2026. So yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be a good one.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me and letting me do this. Um I figure, you know, what we'll start with is uh a state of 2025, right? So let's start with big picture. When you look back at 2025 for Steve stuff, what actually worked?
SPEAKER_01:Oh man. Uh so I think the big thing was was there was a massive pivot for me. Um I struggled. Well, we'll talk about the bad parts and then we'll talk about the good parts. Uh, I think the first part, the the bad part, was I struggled immensely on the social media side. And that was something I really needed to get figured out. And when that um when I started to get that figured out really late in 2025, I think things started to come together much more. But when I say the social media side, I mean like it's not that difficult to look back and uh just scroll through the Instagram that I have and some of these like god-awful reels. It's kind of funny. I I remember at times I would get pissed if like I like invited someone to collaborate and they didn't want to. And I look back at some of the reels and I'm like, oh my god, dude, I can't believe this is so bad. I put this out into the world, and it was like these like really muffled Zoom uh videos that were like, you know, someone's face like super up close and like um very, very just like I don't know, just really bad, like really bad cuts. Um, because I tried for so long to like record it in Zoom, then put it together in a different app and like try to do all these things. I and I'm relatively technically savvy, not anywhere near your level. Um, so that was like a huge Achilles heel of mine that I needed to figure out. I always felt like the interview stuff for me was the easy part. Like that I really enjoyed the best part about the podcast was being a good conversationalist, having these conversations, doing the research and um getting in front of the individual to talk not just about the race results, but talk about them, learn more about who they are as people. So that part was always the easy part and the good part, but I had to really build the ship in 2025 when it came to the social media strategy and understanding that like, okay, we're gonna we're not gonna get any traction or growth off of this um unless uh we do something there. And then the other part that I did really bad in 2025 that we're we're starting to mitigate in 2026 was YouTube. You and I talked about this for the longest time because you know, your podcast, uh, you know, Chasing Trail, uh with Teddy Tonelli, you always put such an emphasis and just did such good work on the YouTube side to have these like beautifully curated videos and just put so much work into the post-production and pre-production of it. Whereas like I'm like this Neanderthal, just throwing stuff together and just throwing it out into the world, but I'm doing three episodes a week, volume-wise, and just hoping that it's like okay. So, one of the big things there was just like making sure we took a step back to focus on quality rather than quantity in 2025. So I'd say the big mistake for me was you know really fumbling it on the social media side and then starting to figure it out towards the end of 2025.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, that's a really good point. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, it takes so much time and energy to put into those videos, you know, day in and day out, right? And if you're putting out three episodes a week, I mean, at that point you're quitting your job and you're trying to get in there and and and and you're that that is your job, right? Um out of curiosity, what uh in 2025, what was the moment that you felt it kind of clicking with the social media where you're like you know, in the podcast itself, where you started getting on a roll? What was that moment? And and was it just a realization that you know this needs to change, or was it there was like was there something that inspired you to do that? What what was that moment for you?
SPEAKER_01:You know what? I stopped for a second because I I I can't remember the last one it was. It might have been like Abigail Locke or it might have been Dan Kurtz. One of those interviews towards like the beginning or like midsection of November. So we were late in the year, and I was just so frustrated with the social media piece. And I was like, man, these just don't, these suck. These are garbage. Like, what am I doing? Um, you know, for those of you that know me, like I'm I'm kind of a psychotic perfectionist. Like I it needs to be perfect if it's not, like it really bothers me and it will sit on me. And you and I have had conversations behind closed doors about this many times where I'm like, dude, if I could just get the social media part figured out, um, you know, the rest of it is just like, you know, then you have your process basically. Um, so for me it was really like late November, mid-November, maybe, where I I honestly it was Riverside, the app we're recover we're recording this on, where it was like, okay, how do I do more eloquently branded stuff that like um changes things around? So the first thing was was I started using Riverside, the app that we're recording this on now. And that and for people that are interested in the podcast, or if you're interested in starting a podcast, I highly recommend Riverside. Like it helps me immensely because you could put your branded stuff in there, you can like have your logo. Um, you know, if you get a nice solid webcam that's in 4K, uh you can record on that as you're gonna have really good uh video quality. And then on top of that, it basically does takes the legwork uh out of doing the reels for you. And I think that was the big thing for me was instead of having to go through the video and splice these, um, you know, and splice these sections of video on a Zoom video uh to use for um the thing, uh it was just so much easier because they just create it for you in Riverside. And but when I'm doing three to five episodes a week, depending on what we're doing, whether it's race previews and then interviews and then all this other stuff, um that was kind of where things changed for me. And uh it just like saved me immense time. And the quality is just so much better. Um there's actually a lot of the reason why I didn't so I don't know if listeners even pay attention to this or even really care, but I don't have any sponsor announcements to make right now until probably March. And the reason was was I didn't really want to pursue anything or anyone um after Ultimate Direction fell off. I wanted to make sure that the the product that I was putting out there was of the quality that I really like. I I want to be damn proud of the quality of the product that I'm putting out there. You know, I want to be covering the sport, but I want to do it in a way that's gonna compete with uh, you know, my peers. So I consider peers like single track or you know, on the higher end free trail. And, you know, if we want to aspire to be a larger media startup like that and get to that level or even get to the higher level that we possibly could be at, the only way you're gonna do that is by having really, I think, a solid social media game and really solidly uh produced stuff that's gonna convey a good story for the listener and for the reader. Um so that was the part where uh it made a big switch kind of in November. And the other part was uh was the branding. Um I hated the logo. I it was like some bullshit that I made in Canva when I first started of like me with my arms crossed, being all cool, and uh with some stupid mountain in the background. And so what I did was uh I reached out to um Ace Brown, who's a uh a friend of mine uh in the Colorado Springs running community. He's in world-class athlete, like probably one of the best downhillers in the world that no one's ever heard of. He's so talented, but he's also immensely talented at graphic design. And so he um was kind enough to uh do me a kindness and uh redesign the Steep Stuff logo, which is the the modern logo that you guys see and do and know today. Um and there's even like further iterations of that we'll can we we've been working on to morph that as we kind of go, but that's the iteration as of today. So that was kind of the branding aspect. And then once I knew that like I had all of that put together, so we had the branding, we had the media aspect, we had the social media game kind of brought to the higher level, the process, if you will, was in place. That's when I was like, all right, we're gonna expand this thing. We're not just gonna in 2026, this is not just about um you know, just interviews. We're we're gonna tackle the sport, we're gonna follow, cover the sport, we're gonna try and grow the fan base of the sport. And that's where things kind of took a turn, probably in around early December.
SPEAKER_00:So okay, yeah. Well, you know, and I gotta say, first of all, the the new logo is amazing. So yeah, kudos to kudos to ace for getting that to you. I think it's awesome. Um, but I think that segues perfectly, really. And so, you know, let's zoom zoom out a little bit on the media portion of this thing. What do you think about the current state of trail running media as we sit here today? Oh man.
SPEAKER_01:Um it's uh it's it's it's a tough one. This is a tough one. Um, you know, for me, it's like I there's a there's a few people I really admire. I think there's people doing really good work that are like kind of out there and new. Like uh I keep saying like a lot, and I don't normally do that. But the ones that really stand out for me, I I think that like Finn at Single Track has always done an immensely good job. And he's always been like kind of uh a kind person to me and kind of been, you know, like a soft uh mentor. Like when I ask him questions, he's kind enough to answer anything for me. And I always think he's done great. Um, I I always I really like uh women at distance as well. I think they've been doing different stuff that I really appreciate. Um there's a few others that like I think what Jonathan Levitz done uh with his pod as well, has done a great job. But outside of that, I think it's kind of boring, man. I see a lot, especially in the ultra space. Like, and this is no shade to anybody. I just think that it is a very saturated space. Um it's become like a uh a space where there's not a lot of originality. Um, everybody's kind of doing the same thing, interviewing the same people, you know. One of the things that always really frustrated me is it really is just a lot of conversations with the same uh top 50 people in the sport of ultra running. And it's like, well, what I always thought would be really unique and cool, especially on the short trail side, is like, why don't we get conversations with the people that are on the bubble, that like are about to make it, that have this like level of excitement that you just have never seen before. Um and sure, well, like Grayson Murphy comes on this week, and like we've had conversations with Joe Gray and you know, soon to be Olympian, Cam Spith, like the people that have made it in the sport. Yes, we have conversations with them as well, and they're amazing as well. Um, but like your Lucy Culplas that no one's ever heard of, but gets all just off the podium of the rut and is poised for an amazing 2026 season, or your Taylor Tuttles of the world. Um, these are people that are about to break onto the scene and no one's having conversations with them. And I'm just like, why? That that's that's dumb. We want to hear their story, we want to know what they're you know, what they're interested in and what they want to do in sport. Um, so that's where I've always thought, like, okay, there's there's a niche within a niche here. Like, first of all, it's just subhub covering short trail. So they're our main peer. And they I think Danny and MK do an amazing job. Their coverage is different. They like I think they're they're more international. Um, they have better connections on the international side with their what they've done with uh in their careers with like Golden Trail and like Skyrunning and stuff like that. Um I think their edge and what they do is is very unique, and I think there's space for everybody. Um, but I think on my end, what makes us unique is it's the conversation, it's not just covering the sport and having those conversations and race previews and things like that, but it's the it's the really the conversation within the conversation that are in of these athletes that are up and coming. And I just don't see that in a lot of in the media space. And you know, I I now that like we've been I've been really pivoting to do more sport coverage and talking about um on especially on the podcast and in the social media space around like uh like I don't know, different races and calendars and prize money and who's the biggest trail races in North America and putting those things out to the world. Once I started doing that, I started realizing like, oh shit, there's a lot of like news stuff, like newsy new things popping up in the sport, which is cool. So, you know, that's another saturated market, but I think the big thing to me is the boringness. And dude, the other thing too is like no one there's a lot of uh like I think I've one of the things that maybe has separated me in whether it's a good way or bad way, whether I've gotten some bad reviews or or angry rants from Helen Mino Faulkner and other people, but like it's because I'm not afraid to have that conversation that might ruffle feathers a little bit more and like have that talk, um ask hard questions, but also like not afraid to say that what's on my mind a little bit more. Whereas like I feel like a lot of people are there's fear to toe the line and be not go too far to the like too too far to one side, not too far to the other, as far as like just kind of staying on the on the straight and narrow path. Um, and it's like how outrageous could we possibly make these conversations? It's fucking trail running, right? But at the same time, uh, I do think there's a lot of people that are afraid to, you know, maybe say one thing or another, maybe I don't know, talking about a performance or talking about an athlete or talking about this or talking about that. And uh that's always really frustrated me that people aren't afraid to have more outrageous takes. Like one of the things about Dylan, I think he does a great job at uh is dude stays on the straight and narrow. There's not like you will never catch a hot take out of Dylan Bowman from Free Trail. And that's fine. That's the biggest trail racing conglomerate, media-wise, in in in the world right now, probably. And so I think that's fine. But I do think as athletes, not just as an athlete in the sport, but also as a media person in the sport, I think it's it's okay to have a hot take here and now and then. Like if there's something you don't if you stand for. Uh like for instance, like I I caught a lot of eyes and got a lot of attention, some good, some bad, um, for really calling out some of the ultra races for the prize money situation over the last month. Like having that conversation and talking about it and being like, well, okay, just because you're a nonprofit doesn't mean uh you can't have a prize money. What the fuck is that? So yeah, that that's what I think out of the media space. I think they there needs to be more hot takes, it needs to be a little more conversational, needs to be a little different. Like if someone's got a different edge, like, dude, this is the one thing I I said this to you, I said this to every person that listens to uh you know to your podcast, and I said, you are doing it differently, and I love that because no one had even thought about doing a satire-based podcast and like making fun of the sport in some ways and having those conversations. And I think that's what you always did such a good job with with Teddy. Um, and yeah, so I don't know. That's a long-witted way of saying uh what I think of the sport right now is we need we need to get a little wild, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I yeah, and I I would have very much agree with you. And it's one of these days I'm gonna get back to doing that that the doing the show. It's been a minute, but um you know, in that with with you know the hot takes and things like that, I think you you made a I well, the thing is, is like you said, being a saturated market, right? We are almost yearning for some of that more honest, authentic material rather than the same old thing. So you had mentioned storytelling, and I was kind of wondering, what are some of the stories that we're not telling in this space that we should be, in your opinion?
SPEAKER_01:Ooh, oh this is this is good. Uh so I think the biggest one is, and I kind of hit on this before with the storytelling aspect, is it's good and bad. I think the on the good side, the storytelling that needs to be had more is of these, and where I think we do our best job at the steep stuff, is kind of catching these athletes before they become household names. Like McKenna Morley, for instance, like coming over from the from the roads and she's going onto the trails and she's already been so dominant. But that girl is gonna be a household name in the next two years because she's just one of the many insanely talented D1 athletes, uh or athletes that have come out of the D1 system that have gone into trail running. And like she's on some podcasts, but like not a lot of people know who she is yet. It was so cool to be able to capture that excitement and enthusiasm, and it's oh it's the it's the come-up, right? Like you see this in a lot of sports. It's it's always more exciting to have these athletes on before they kind of make it big. Um, because you you catch this level of enthusiasm and excitement that is just uh very unique and and just very different, and it's something you just don't get in in sport. Um, I think that's really important. And the hunger, dude, it makes me hungry. Like I'm an athlete that's been doing this now for a little while, and I've yet to have had what I think is my best achievement, and I keep working my ass off to get that. And and I hope it comes, but it's like having these interviews with these athletes continues to help me and push me and uh kind of reinvigorate and relight the fire for me. Um, that's the good side stuff. I think the bad side conversations we're not having is we're not talking enough about anti-doping in the sport. I think that's a huge thing. Um I think this might raise some eyebrows, but like, dude, there's a lot more doping in the sport that goes on than I think people know of. And I think we've only scratched the surface um in those conversations. And I think that needs to be uh that needs to be had and conversated about. And I think that's that will come out as time goes on. And I think more conversations are being had as athletes getting caught. Um the other thing is is just um how do I say this as far as like the the stories that need to be told? Um I need to do a better job making this not to make this more about me, but like I think I need to be doing a better job at creating stars. Um the reason I say that is because one of the things Ultra does so fucking well at is they create stars in the space, right? Like everybody knows who Courtney DeWalter is, everybody knows who Jim Walmsley is, right? But how many people have ever heard of Joe Gray? And you know, dude, I know Joe doesn't like to be compared at all to Jim, but at the same time, Joe is about a thousand times more dominant than Jim. And that might be like a hot take, but in his perspective, like area of the sport and the things that he has done, Joseph Gray is arguably one of the greatest athletes of all time, the ever gray star sport. And he's only got like 14,000, 13,000 followers on Instagram. What I would like to do is do a better as this podcast grows and continues to we do more things with covering the sport. I think the next frontier for me is going to be more of the star building. I think that's how we continue to build the fan base. Like, yes, Joe Gray is pretty well known in Colorado Springs and around the world for the accolades that he has. Like, I'd say maybe more and like way more people know him in Europe than they do in the United States. Uh, but that's just one example. Like, Christian Allen now, dude, is our is our kind of our next big thing. Uh and Ana Gibson. Ana Gibson is is like our next big thing. Like, we don't even know how good she is, and Lauren Gregory. And so we have all these amazing men and women in the sport, and I think the next frontier is going to be how do we turn these people into global stars? And it's also on their sponsors and brands uh to do a good job of putting their stuff out there and being able to storytell about them. Um but it's also on the media as well. I I think it would be a great uh frontier for me and a great like and I would I would argue any person if like approaching this thing or getting into it, and the subhub as well, as they continue to develop on their end. Like I think the next frontier is to do more storytelling, build these, build the names of these athletes so the North American fan base can um, I guess, like understand and get it get a name around it. Because if anything, like, dude, I put this out in the world yesterday. Like the Ruthead almost 5,000 people set like jump into that race, and they sold out in like 45 minutes. Yeah, broken arrow is damn close. Cirque series is a a phenomenon at this play at this point, they've almost 5,000 people. So there's no shortage of athletes in the sport and participants. So it's like, how do we turn them into fans? And I think that whereas like Ultra is a is a big thing, like the participants are fans, and I think in trail running and mountain running and short trail, that's one of the big things we need to do is can like help turn these people into fans.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, and it's funny because we've talked about this at ad nauseum together, and it's it's it's this funny, funny thing where you know Ultra's done this fantastic job of making, for some reason, has somehow made a 200-mile race seem attainable and like it and it's like you just go out and anybody can do it. Yet we have a you know an 11-mile mountain race where it doesn't get that same sort of buzz, but at the same time, you know, it's just as exciting and it in its own right, just as hard, right? I mean, you you you do the short trail stuff where you know, where I'm on the on the ultra side. But I think you're right. I think it really comes down to how we're telling that story. And I think that um that's something that obviously you're you're looking to do here in 2026. And I think that it is absolutely needed because it's a it's a part of the sport that I think is overlooked. And it's you know, it's one of those things, right? You know, even from a cost perspective, right? You're looking at like say Coca-Dona or or Mammoth 200 or any of these hundred milers that you know are costing 500 to 1500 or a destination trail race. I don't know what she's charging now, what, like four grand a race or something like that, right? Is it really? Or you could spend six, I I don't know. I it it's it's high. It's high. So it's like, or you can go out for a few hours, enjoy the mountains, enjoy the same community that's built around, that's built around Ultra. Um, and I think it's really like you said, getting that, getting that story, telling that story to the people out there, um, and really bringing that fan base in and showing them that this is also something that you can do. You know, it's it's a different, it's definitely a different sport. We've talked about that, but uh, you know, it's the same people that are going to be signing up, right? So I'm excited to see that. I am. Um and so uh going into 2026 with that with that in mind, um, when you when you look at the the year to come, what do you actually want steep stuff to become? Like where how do you want to see it mature or or grow? Where what is the vision for you in 2026 going forward?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I mean the vision in 2026 is to all right, so 2024 was just kind of like, all right, we we just started this thing. 2025 was kind of building the boat while it was starting to float. And 2026 is like, let's row the boat now and let's steer it into the right direction. And the direction that I see it in for me is being the the name, the the I'd say like the brand in Short Trail that is covering the entirety of that sport in North America, building the fan base and being the uh I don't want to say free trail because I don't like that comparison because I think from free trail is different. That's a that's a massive media conglomerate, in in my opinion. Like they have multiple podcasts under their belt, they have a lot of things that they're doing. Um, but there's a lot of similarities too on the short trail side that I think you'll see from us that we'll be doing. I I don't like the idea of competition. I think everybody's got their own kind of space, in my opinion. I think the space is still while there's a lot of podcasts out there, I think the space on the media side is still small enough that everybody kind of can chunk out their own individual thing. And I think our individual thing is the short trail space. Um, and you're gonna see us at a lot of races. We're gonna be doing a lot of you're gonna it's gonna be boots on the ground this year. Whereas in previous years it's been Zoom interviews and me, you know, falling with a small budget trying to try to make this thing work with no sponsors and this, that, and the other. This year we're gonna have sponsors. We're gonna, and it's gonna be uh coverage brought to you by a specific brand that we're gonna announce probably March time. And it's gonna be race coverage brought to you specifically Broken Arrow. We'll be at Broken Arrow, we'll be at the Rut, we'll be at uh possibly Speed Go, and then all most of the Cirque series races. Um, and then a few others, maybe uh the Skyrunner race in the United States, things like that. We're still working a lot of stuff out because it's still very early on, but you could definitely count us in for Broken Arrow and the Rut. Those are already kind of penciled in. And so what I want to do to this thing is is make us the name in short trail coverage from the media perspective. Like we are going to be the name in race coverage on the short trail side. Um, and like I said, that was that's post post-pre-post interviews, um, race previews, stuff like that. Uh there is gonna be a secondary podcast that's gonna drop. Um, I I guess I can announce this now because we're in the process of shopping uh sponsors for this. Um and yeah, we're we're as far as like we've identified the co-host, and there is gonna be a potential co-host for this. Uh it's a household name in the sport that I'm super excited about. Um, and hopefully that will be done and like dotted on the line this week. And um, yeah, there's gonna be a secondary podcast, and that's gonna be, I don't want to give away the the premise because we'll do a whole announcement for it. Um and that's gonna live on the steep stuff with the idea of like once it gets big enough, we're gonna spin that off into its own, like its own platform and its own world. Um and then I think the last thing that I want to tackle besides the race previews, if you will, is getting like I think I've done a really good job of doing race previews. Um, but now I need to like build a formula for it. Like I want like a better system for co-hosts, a better system of like folks in there that are gonna, you know, really provide some expert analysis and like really talk about like what they think is gonna happen, talk about the strengths and weaknesses of these athletes. Um we're gonna do a better job of having like co-hosts that have actually performed and like raced at the highest level against some of these athletes in there. Like last year I did a great job of getting like Bailey Kowalzik involved, right? And I think she was she was awesome at um like having her for series and all um more athletes like that. They're gonna come in and give give their analysis and have discussions and talk about like the weaknesses and strengths of the athletes and where they can, you know, what what they think is gonna unfold. Um and then the last thing is starbuilding. Uh, there's gonna be a lot of discussion as as more news starts to come out around uh free agency. A lot of athletes have signed with different sponsors this year. There's a lot of movement in the um in the space, and we're gonna have conversations around that. We're gonna have conversations around coverage in general, like talking about the sport, like not just free agency. We're gonna be talking about a lot of the moves and the whys behind things. Uh, you guys are gonna get to know these athletes better, and it's gonna be more one-on-one interviews, more video stuff, more conversations there, and building that star power. Like I said, I want everybody to know people like Jane Moss. I want everybody to know people like Cam. Oh, Cam Smith's different. Dude, you should see Cam. Cam, I'm having Cam on next week, and he sent me his media uh calendar before the Olympics. Jesus Christ. Like, dude is the most blunted man on the planet right now. So crazy. Anyway, it's a but I I want people to know all these athletes and like have an understanding of who they are so we can build their star power. And so, because dude, you realize with the more star power and the more conversations there, and the more people know them, then you're gonna start to get see. That's the thing. Like, there's some good contracts in short trail. Don't get me wrong, like people are making money, but like uh I must almost said something I should have said. Uh let's just say, like, really good money, like really like life-changing money. I want those contracts in short trail for these athletes. Like, I want um people to be making the bag, and uh the only way we do that is if it's a more attract, like if it's a more attractive sport, more people, more players, more um I think competitions, even in my opinion. Uh this is gonna ruffle feathers. I short trail is definitely more competitive than Ultra. I and I you could say otherwise a million different ways, but um just the level and depth and of these people that come in that you've never heard of before, and they're all killers, and the cream rises to the top. You that's where your Anac Gibson's of the world and your Christian Alex of the world come from.
SPEAKER_00:Uh so it's a long way to say, you know, even from a broadcast. Yeah, no, I would say even from a broadcast perspective, right? I mean, it's it's you know, short trail is something that you could put on TV and you could market that, you know, you could have a race that's you know 30 to 45 minutes long, hour long, right? Versus, you know, again, yeah, I mean, again, look, just like anybody else, I'll tune into the you know, say Kokodona coverage. But it's six days long. I mean, okay, but you know, I I feel that the money is there, right? The money's there, and and there there is there's absolutely room for that growth. And as you mentioned, the money needs to be there for those contracts to happen, right? So I mean, and and at this point, you've already called your shot. It's now on you. You're gonna want to be the one that has to make this happen. And hey, look, the space is ripe.
SPEAKER_01:Well, long-term wise, like, not that I want this to happen because I have my own like personal gripes about it, but I see what making the Olympics has done for like Cam. And um, just from afar. Like, I I know Cam, but I don't know him. Like, he's not like we're not best friends, but like just seeing from afar, um, like what that has done for his name and him as an athlete, and like kind of put him um and same for Anna, it seems like, like, on the map. There's gonna there might be a day that comes in the next two decades um where we are in Olympic sport in one way, shape, or form. And like, I it would be really cool to be well positioned at that point in time. Like, I know free trail is gonna be like free trail's not going anywhere, right? But it would be really cool to be, especially, you gotta remember too, if it is the short trail side, there is an opportunity there that would be amazing for commentary and for coverage and things like that. And I'm not saying I know everything about the sport, but I know a lot about the sport. I know enough to be able to have uh good conversations, being like actual commentating and uh good recall, things like that. So I think there might be an opportunity there, you know, down the line at some point in time to uh from a media perspective, whenever that time does come. Um yeah, I don't know. You know, at this point in time now, it's just on me to just you know have fun with it and enjoy it. I think that's the hardest part is like not getting stressed out and being able to manage everything. Because I am just a one-man band trying to do all of this at once, throwing three episodes out a week and uh just trying to build the ship as I go. So the and I think with sponsorship as that's starting to come in now, um, that's gonna help immensely. But it's still not gonna take the pressure off. The other thing, too, that I really struggled with was I I was not ready for some negative feedback. And I've had to like really like re-engineer my brain for that because you know, I kind of thought was like, oh, well, we're telling good stories here, we're only hyping people up, we're not tearing anybody down, like this is all good stuff here, but then athletes go and make fucking 20-minute videos on on getting a stat wrong or something like that. And I'm like, wow, like you gotta be really on the ball. Um, and it's not just that. Like last night I posted uh something about um what was it? Uh uh it was like uh the top uh races by population or by it was like a just a stat thing of like the biggest races in North America on the trail side. And the amount of people that DM'd me, dude, and like I I really walked them through how I got the numbers and went through everything. I was just like very surprised by like the amount of pushback I got from it. So I think that's one big thing is like you need a really thick skin and like not be uh not be perturbed uh in any way um by any type of negative feedback. You need to just stay on your narrow path and and keep keep doing with your vision, keep going with that vision.
SPEAKER_00:I have always taken the approach any publicity is good publicity, James. Well, I know you're the you're the publicity man, dude. Yeah, well, you know, speaking speaking of hot takes that get you in trouble, sometimes you just see just you guys gotta post it on there and be like, this is gonna get me in trouble and just set it aside. It all ends up dying off in about five days, but hey, where are here we are? Um you had you had mentioned, and um, you know, again, you know, staying on the 2026 uh uh uh trajectory right now, but also you had kind of mentioned, you know, as as far as all the stuff that you got going on, you're still racing, you're still training, you're an athlete in your own right. I mean, I just I how do you balance being an athlete, running the podcast, and then and then and then also going to these places? You know, you said you mentioned, you know, the rut, broken arrow, these Circs series events, which hey, you know, I don't know how many there are now, but how how are you doing this? Uh yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01:So all right, so I and I would put it like uh it's all in a ranking system for me. So like there's my day job, and then there's the podcast, and then there's running, which is like I gotta be honest with you, like I enjoy being an athlete more than I than anything else. Like training and trying to be the best version of myself in whichever level that looks like, um, and like giving my all to something matters so much to me. And the podcast has just always been an outlet for that because it's it's helped me, if anything, like not put all my eggs in the athlete basket. Because let's face it, I'm not that good. And uh I hope I get better, but and I'm trying to get better, and I'm putting so much work in at this point in time. Um, but at the same time, like the podcast for me has been an outlet to not just not just identify as like an athlete, you know. Like um, one of the things I I see a lot of athletes struggle with is like, dude, some people I have on the podcast and they're just like headcases, man. It's like they just put so much worth into no, seriously though, like they put so much of their like mental worth as themselves as an athlete, and it's like an identity. And it's like, sure, that could be a really healthy, that could be a great identity, but like you are a dynamic human made of stardust, dude. Like it's a very crazy existence that we lead. And um so being a dynamic person doesn't just mean you're just an athlete. You can be an athlete, you could be a podcast host. I also have a full-time job that you know is uh is awesome. It's it's cool, you know. I mean, I think I've been pretty verbose on the podcast that like at some point in time I'd love to leave it to just be a full-time podcast host, but I don't know if that'll ever happen. Um, and then I'm a husband and a dog dad, and you know, I try to have friendships and maintain those. And how do I do it? I I don't know. I just kind of like uh I'm a very like structured guy, like I'm a very routine-based person. So, you know, when I have time at work that I can like put time towards the podcast, then yeah, I'm gonna fill that time with the podcast and be productive. And when I'm not doing that, I'm on the ground stretching and getting ready for my run. And you know, Mikelino, your brother is my coach, and he's done amazing work with me over the last five or six months to be able to get me to uh on the way to the level that I want to be at. And so we're putting hours and hours and hours of work in. Um, and it's really just going down the checklist every day of making sure every day there's really not a second wasted, and then I'm either if I'm if there's a time that I'm sitting on the couch, it's like because I'm I'm pooped by the end of the day. Like I'm I'm pretty tired because I've put all the work that I possibly can into. And I also have a lot of energy, dude. Like I'm 34, I turn 35 next month, and I thought uh that energy would go away. I don't think that's the case. Like if you were in the pursuit of things that really get you excited and things that you're obsessed about, and like you wake up every morning thinking about and go to bed every night thinking about, um, then uh you're gonna you're gonna get it. You're gonna have the energy to do it. And that's kind of where I'm at right now. It's like I'm just really in this obsession phase where I haven't quite really nailed it on the running side. Like I have this contract and that's great, but what the fuck have I done with it? Really nothing. And so I see that as like a constant everyday reminder that like you need to be putting the work in and be so that way you can show up at whatever race it might be this summer and and whoop ass. Um, and I hope that's the case, or at least just give the best version of yourself, give a better version than you haven't prior. And then the podcast side, you need to completely every day be uh working towards something. So like I have you should see the notes in my phone, dude. I just like on even if I'm on the treadmill on a run, I'm writing notes down. I'm like trying to figure out like, all right, what are we doing in 2026? What are we doing here? What are we doing there? And yeah, like the podcast hasn't hit it like really big yet, but and I haven't really hit it like that big in running yet. But like it, it's it's the same thing where when you start to see like runners hit their stride and like things just click one random day. It's all the work that you do over the years and years and years that builds up, and it makes me confident that like in something, something's gonna click. And I I believe that. Um, it'll probably be the podcast first, maybe not. I don't know. Like, I I guess I think the running thing will click for me in a better way. Um granted last year I was injured most of the year, so that was kind of the the big drawback. Um, but yeah, how do I balance it? That's that's kind of the way. It's a long-winded way of saying how I balance everything.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, you know, and you said too, it's one thing that I've noticed, and this, you know, shout out to to uh little brother Micolino. He's he's coaching me again. I we'll see how long. uh before I get fired for the fifth time. Um but he's literally yeah just say yeah my gosh. The one thing I will say though from like an injury injury prevention and all of that you're gonna see great things for it. So I I see the running uh I see the running taking off you know along with the podcast but you know with the podcast let's let's let's let's let's get into that specifically with the steep stuff so for people who might be newer or maybe even what we're doing with 2026 how do you describe what the steep stuff actually is yeah I mean in 2026 we are basically a a media space for telling stories of short trial athletes right now and providing sport coverage.
SPEAKER_01:That's the best way I can put it towards newcomers to the space. Like we're telling stories of the athletes making it in the sport we're telling stories of the athletes that are professionals in the sport we're also having business conversations with the decision makers in a lot of these companies that are part of the sport we're also talking to agents we're talking to a lot of different people and having really good conversations around the space. Then on top of that we're covering the sport we're putting out there informative information on what's going on whose calendar is what uh prize money we're talking about all these different things that really encompass and surround the sport and then finally we're starbuilding like I said before we're gonna be working on that this year and um commentary. That's another thing I actually did mention too like uh I think Tom put it out there in the world already like the Sun of Peace Scramble this year is gonna be or the US mountain running championship again this year we'll be at the Sun of Peace Scramble. I will be there boots on the ground in person doing commentary and interviews um and we're gonna be we're gonna be doing the damn thing and really putting a shine on a lot of these athletes and I think that's another phase that I I didn't really talk about was commentary. So uh we're going from podcast in 2026 to media conglomerate in 2026. That's that's that's the plan.
SPEAKER_00:And and you mentioned you mentioned athletes and I'm wondering and I mean and maybe this isn't what you're gonna be getting into but I'm curious just as an athlete in in the space of not necessarily just short trail or ultra but the but let's just call the trail running space as a whole the the culture that surrounds it. Is that something that you're interested in getting into at all or is are you really going to be just athlete focused?
SPEAKER_01:Culture's a funny thing man I I I get weird with this because I I think the culture is there. I think the culture is amazing. I think it's there's a lot of good people that create the culture. But I also think that like culture has always been a this is gonna get this is a hot take. I think culture is more ultra thing. Whereas I think I think short trail is very much a different sport. It's it's it's competition walks uh or sorry it's it's more so like competition weeds thing it's a it's an what is that word I'm looking for not a democracy. Ah it kind of throws me off I'm sorry it's where it's where the cream rises to the top and I think that's meritocracy. Is that what we're going for? It's a meritocracy where that's the culture. And I think that's a lot of the reason why we do have an issue in our sport with uh where Ultra I think does a better job at at some aspects with their culture um where you can kind of be mediocre at that sport and like still have a a voice in it. Whereas like in short trail not really like it's like if you're not Christian Allen Joe Gray Anna Gibson or Lauren Gregory and down the line it is very hard for people to know who you are because it's those are the people winning the races and those are the people getting the accolades and the people that you know of um or if you're something else and I I do view myself as a something a little bit different in that space. But as far as the culture goes I don't know dude like I I think it's also on the racists to do to do culture. Like I think for me it's more so important to build the fan base. So tell inform you of what's going on in the sport and understand and know who what is but as far as the culture goes like uh I don't think it needs to be changed or or done anything with like for instance I think the best single culture going in our sport right now comes from the Cirque series. What Julian Carr has created there and if you haven't run one of those damn races I I highly suggest you do because it is entirely different from anything in our sport. It is there's so there's a high end competition for the elites if you're sub-elite and trying to make your name there's an opportunity there. If you're a mid packer there's an opportunity for a challenge and if you're a back of the packer you're still going to get the same challenge. Everyone at that finish line it doesn't matter who your name is you are celebrated at the end and you're you're you're raised up and then there's a big party at the end there's lots of discussion there and and people building really good friendships. And it's this intersection of the sport that is very unique where you're getting a very large ski community with a trail running community and other communities kind of thrown in there as well depending on like where you are like the aliaska race is very unique because that Alaskan mount running scene is different. But it brings out these regional scenes excuse me um that have like um uh that have like very big ski culture and I think that makes it a little unique and a very different and that and so what I'm trying to say is like that's culture creation. Like that's not that's for me to tell that story um and like hype that up and get people to go enjoy that and understand that and see that but it's not on me to create a culture. For me I think my my journey is a little bit different. And then like for instance dude you could say the same thing about the rut and broken arrow creating amazing things creating race day experiences and their cultures are unique and individual like I think I think broken arrow really leans into the elite side whereas like I don't think the rut really leans into the elite side as much. They have their own individual thing but they're both super popular races that are three plus thousand people that people are going to yeah I don't know I I think the culture for short trail will I think that's a that's a distant problem.
SPEAKER_00:I think once we let's build the fan base first and then figure out like all right is there even a problem here with the culture or is the culture just really good because it it sorts itself out whereas I feel like in in ultra like there's a lot of voices there dude there's a lot of conversations around the culture and sure you know it's some good some bad you know yeah no absolutely well you know I I think it's funny that you bring it up with the with the snow sports people coming in to the running scene I mean they're they're a different different breed man that talk about fun loving and and I think the Cirque series marries that so well Julian has done an excellent excellent job with what he's brought to the running running scene with just the you know as as he would put the amount of stoke that he brings I I I love it and as you mentioned if you have not done a Cirque series race absolutely it you will have an absolute blast you come in first or you come in last you're gonna have fun you know and and and to that you know with with uh you know broken arrow you mentioned um I think they do a great job with the professional side of things but at the same time it's it's attainable for that everyday regular person to come and enjoy you know enjoy the village and you know and and being hyped up as you cross the finish line again even if you're last everybody's gonna be there make a little tunnel with their arms like you know like you're a little kid at at a at a soccer game running through and makes you makes you feel great. That's that that is awesome. And but you're right it it's gonna it's the short trail is definitely different in the side that it is a very very very very competitive space because you're always seeing those same names up at the top of the podium you know and with Ultra it seems like there's a new guy every every race every year that's coming on and just you know getting first place here and you're like who the hell is that dude whereas short trail it's it's very very consolidated. So no I I I would tend to agree with you on that one.
SPEAKER_01:And the thing is too dude and like this is no shade whatsoever. It was really cool when like Anton was doing it and like and they what was the breaking now what the hell is the name of his uh sorry I was on the treadmill before this and I lost a bunch of brain cells. What um un unbreakable like that or is it that was that was so cool. But how many how many documentaries do I need about someone that runs a really long race and it's basically the same story being told over again like give me something different right whereas like I think there's so much opportunity in short trail like dude who doesn't want to see Dan Kurtz running sub five minute miles down some super technical like gnarly northeast trail in in in New Hampshire right oh yeah or or and Remy LaRue in tail right um or like there I just think there's so many opportunities there for just like storytelling dude Joe Gray like if there's any person listening to this that like wants to make a documentary call Joe Gray up and like it would it was such a missed opportunity and and this is some inside baseball I tried to get made I pitched this to ultimate direction because I wanted to do it before worlds. I was like yo let's do a a mini doc on Joe Gray dude that guy is 41 years I think he's 41 I don't want to age him too much. I'll listen to this and be mad but I'm pretty sure he's 41 and like dude he's so good at his sport he's so good at what he's doing he does he's a consummate professional and like how cool would it have been to do like a mini doc on Joe getting ready for worlds right or like getting ready for broken arrow. And you could have thrown Tyler in the mix as well Tyler's also a dad and does a lot I think he's a scientist he's a PhD um you know they're both Joe and Tyler both family men. I think there was a lot of opportunity there for storytelling before worlds to have some of these conversations and like kind of show the story behind these guys on just like how amazing they are and getting ready for to go run against the Ugandans and the Kenyans like these are just dudes like getting ready for to go against these giants you know Patrick Kippanyago and Philemon and a lot of these like in insane like world level athletes. And so I think there was a lot of missed opportunity for storytelling before worlds and and we're gonna get that right in 2027 because that that's that's never going to slip again. But yeah I don't know where I was going with that but I I just think that there's so many I don't I don't need to hear another story about someone running a hundred miles and it was hard. Like that that's great but like it's it's it's not doing it for me. I'm sorry. Like how many how many of those stories have been told um where I think like dude for short trail too like I mean the strength training the breath work the actual training that goes into it the sleep the recovery there's so many things and I'm not saying ultra runners don't do that because they they absolutely do like there's a lot that goes into the professional side but I think there's a much narrow mar much narrower margin of error if you don't get something right on the short trail side whereas you can make a lot of mistakes in the ultra world it's different. Absolutely no 100% agree and but you know and and I you had mentioned uh ultimate direction and they were a sponsor of your podcast what the this last year I think maybe the last few years um but no law didn't renew um and you haven't announced any sponsors for 2026 yet is is that intentional are you being picky what's what's going on with that it's intentional and and me being picky so uh the first things first is that like I um dude I gotta say like thanks to UD dude they they they took a chance on me when I was I mean I still am nobody but like when I was really really really hadn't had nothing uh to my name or anything back like maybe three or four years ago and uh they sponsored me as an athlete and I can remember going to that uh that yeah that athlete summit that's where I got to meet Joe Gray and build that relationship Jeff Colt was there and um you know John Kelly and like all these like huge names in the sport. And so that relationship continued to hold on and blossom and they were kind enough to sponsor the podcast and give me some support in 2025 2025 sorry and uh so yeah they are going to be I can't tell much about their strategy but like they're pivoting strategy wise uh for this year so it made some sense to uh amicably end that relationship as I had some different direction and goals that I wanted to do um on the let's just say the apparel side and gear side for the podcast like as far as those sponsors go. So yeah we amicably separated but I gotta say like dude thank you so much to them for the support it was it was really great and what we built in the first year and that support was just great. I have been very strategic in not announcing anything. We do have a main sponsor for 2026. It is not a shoe brand um I'm not gonna say anything more than that but they come online in March and they're gonna be bringing they're gonna be bringing to life a lot of the coverage right so you're gonna see a lot of coverage of broken arrow brought to you by and uh so that's gonna be that brand and I was very intentional not really like going to seek anybody out until now I know it's like really shitty in the calendar because everyone's budgets are spoken for uh but I just truly believe that like if you if you bring the power and bring the uh if you really are have something special brands will create uh they'll create a budget for you um and so yeah I was intentional in the end of the year to not seek anybody out because I wasn't happy with the podcast um I I really like I said this in the beginning like I really didn't like the social media aspect of it I was not happy where that was I didn't feel like that product was worth someone like a Laspertiva or a mammoot or uh Northface or someone like that saying hey we're gonna we're gonna give you X amount of money to sponsor the podcast because I didn't feel like the deliverables were there. But now I think the social media game is upped enough and I think the conversation piece I think now that we have a YouTube in place um that's putting out good stuff I think now that I guess there's a system I think I'm a very system oriented guy. Excuse me. And once this now that the system's in place um that's when I I started working with an agent and uh yeah started working with an agent and we've got one place we're working on another and then we've got a bunch of other shit in plan for 2026 as well so we're getting there dude we're gonna I think the one I I guess I could be transparent about this uh we I told you we created a we have a sub show that's gonna be dropping uh soon that's gonna be like a secondary podcast um basically we're uh working on a sponsor for that right now um once that's done the will be hopefully around the like the June time frame and we're gonna be looking for a shoe I that's that's I think that's I I think that's okay to say that and put that in the world. We're gonna be looking for a main sponsor for the podcast and I think those conversations and those processes it's just like becoming a sponsored athlete they don't start in December they start very early out so I kind of put that into the world and and that's what I want to do. And then the next thing I want to work on after that is dude. This is no shade to free trail but like trailrunner of the year is in my opinion a lot of popularity contests and I just don't like the way it's done. So we're gonna do something different. I want to do something for short trail. I was really stoked um that there was a lot of short trail athletes that made it on there but dude this is such a big sport like it's got to be either a North American wet thing or like it you got to change it. Like and it can't be just yeah it can't be everybody right like I don't even think Remy Bonet who became the world uphill champion was in there. And like I'm not Remy's biggest fan in the world but like he should be in it like I there was a lot of people that were missing off that list. And so I feel bad that Dylan has to continue to defend himself because every armchair quarterback in the world comes out and be like oh well Toby Alexanderson should have been on there or this person or Remy Bonet I want to create something that like cuts that out because you're just creating yourself a headache when you make it a popularity contest where you make the individual people vote. So I'm in the process very early process right now of completely coming up with an entirely new system and we're gonna shop that to a sponsor and we're gonna there's gonna be something new in 2026 for free trail and it's gonna be the done the right way to where the short trail athletes are going to get their shine. It's probably just going to be North American based um I really shouldn't be running my mouth on this because nothing's out there and if someone wants to do it before me by all means go for it. I'll collab with you or happily sit back and fix what you didn't do right. But like I think it needs to be done better in my opinion. So we'll do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah fair. Yeah fair um you know it and and with the cut with the coverage going out there and doing more more of this on the ground um type coverage uh a big thing that we've seen in the sport is having actual conventions coming for trail running uh TRE trailcon uh do you plan on being out there do you are you gonna go uh you know is it visiting having a booth how how do you plan on covering those events uh so I was gonna go to trailcon this year it was the original plan but I'm gonna not um there's one race in particular that I'm very uh eyeing this year and I want to do everything I possibly can do in my in my power to make sure I'm prepared for that race so I'm going to be training on that course a little bit and doing a different race that weekend of Trailcon so I'm not gonna be at TrailCon that's a short story um I will be at TRE and that the goal will be to network and take meetings there and um enact the vision for what we have for 2027 with the steep stuff.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah so definitely we'll be at TRE. We'll probably probably not be at TrailCon unless unless um things change because I know that this the sponsor of the podcast for 2026 will be there. I might change things we'll see.
SPEAKER_00:Gotcha. Yeah well we'll see and we just got we just have to look we just have to look at the uh the races that are on that weekend and find out which one's the big one for you I guess huh oh no no the big one does not until the end of August I'm just doing everything you know what it is. Don't put it oh okay don't sand sandbag in here don't put the no no no no no no no this is what I need to I need to get back awesome get one back on. Hey no absolutely you know what when you spend in it when you spend a year dealing with injury and everything like that you know I I I see absolutely the the want as an as an athlete to get back on the horse and go put out a good performance. I mean it's so hard when you have a year dealing with injury after injury after injury and when you're finally healthy you really just want to be able to put that body to use because like you said you know we're not getting any younger so we got to do it now right I'm old dude I mean I'm gonna be really old.
SPEAKER_01:No I'm still in my prime dude 35 that's right very much in my prime I don't I it's funny I had a Lucy uh uh Culpa on the show the other day and she she's like 27 and we were just talking about age and she's like oh you're fine you're just gonna lose a bunch of your VO2 max no big deal and I was like what the fuck I was like oh my God oh that's it that's it that's it I don't really need that um you know what's funny dude I started doing breath work this year that was my New Year's resolution to get uh something I was talking into your brother about was uh working on like intercostal muscles for like heavy breathing um when you're in some of those like higher pace zones so I've been doing a ton of breath work and I gotta say man if if uh and this is to the audience out there if you don't do breath work already highly 10 out of 10 suggests that like it has um if you get your breath work done correctly and like actually like work on it you'll never get a side stitch again I think that that I mean obviously some I don't know that's probably a bold statement but like it helped me with a lot of different things so yeah breath work uh and it also supposedly does something for your view too I don't know how true that is but as far as like just getting me calmed and in a in a very nice place I think breathwork is immense yeah oh absolutely no I I I could see it I mean even just from a mental standpoint right just being able to just kind of like you said I mean just take that and just kind of just bring it down just a little bit right well you know me I'm high in the you know what's crazy?
SPEAKER_00:It's total this is actually a just a little bit of a tangent but not really but have you ever noticed have you ever noticed if you're like training or listening to music Like the difference in your heart rate just from listening to music that hypes you up versus going out. Like I'm telling this is here's uh maybe this isn't a hot take, but something that I've I've noticed is that when you're doing like really, really high VO2 max intensive workouts, just real like or intervals or something like that. Listening to classical music, oh my gosh, it's huge, just keeps you chill and just be able to put all that energy where it belongs. I don't know. Am I the only one? Did I just like find this out when everybody's been doing this? But man, yeah, dude. I'm telling you.
SPEAKER_01:Classical, dude. Classical. I see. Or just chill, chill music, you know? Oh no, I put on like 2013 Avici. Like, I'm like in a in a rave doing never mind. I'm in a rave, like to being a wild boy.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I'm not yeah. Well, yeah, and I'm thinking, I like, I mean, that's completely opposite of what I'm saying. Like, I'm saying like you break that, like, because you stick if you can still like have that intensity. Hey, well, you know what? To each their own. To each their own. Wait, do you do workouts with music on?
SPEAKER_01:I I think you you have like that music.
SPEAKER_00:I see if you're yeah, no, it it it depends. Yeah, I mean, I there's a lot of times, a lot of times I'll do I, you know, most most of my training I'd say I'm probably not listening to music. Um, but there are times when I do like to throw in my headphones, like especially for like a really long run, right? Because I mean, if you're going out and you're doing 1820, you know, even like you know, a 30-mile training run, I mean, dude, it get it, it can get boring, especially if you're doing like a loop of something and you did you're on like loop number four. Like it's sometimes you just or just like a podcast, right? Something to kind of keep your mind off of the fact that you've been running for six hours.
SPEAKER_01:See, like I do, this is actually a problem of mine, and I actually need to get this figured out. So I for all my easy runs, I don't listen to music, but like I usually do one to two hard workouts a week, and uh depending on like what block I'm in. And I uh yeah, I gotta like wean myself off of that for like races because like I I can't go into a race, not you know, because like you don't want to you can't wear a music or listen to music on a ra in a race, right? Especially a short race. But like if I'm doing like let's say I'm gonna go do a VO2 workout on the incline, or if I'm gonna go hit the track, like usually I will listen to music in those just because I'm by myself, I don't have anybody to pace off of, and I'm kind of just getting in my own head and just you know, usually I use that time to think, you know, and I'm like, I'll listen to music and just get in the deep thought, uh, and then be present for um, you know, obviously intervals and stuff like that. But yeah, it's something I gotta wean myself off of is music, especially in the off season when it's boring as fuck and it's like snowy out and this, that, and the other. And the last thing you want to be doing is freezing outside and doing your workout. But yeah, so that's a that's a that's a I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean it is something to something to definitely definitely practice at least, right? Because I mean I do think that there is something to be said for being able to train with or without music, right? Because again, if you're going into the competition and some races don't even allow you to have headphones, I don't know if there's a ton of those still out there, but like some of them are they're they're in their rules. They are they they specifically say no headphones, no head, you know. Okay, but I thought about it. And then if you're if you're just used to training, you know.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's the jawbone ones, the the jawbone conducting ones I've thought about using. Oh yeah, because that way I can like still hear if um but also dude, like for like my types of races, like I'm racing people. Like, I I mean obviously I'm trying to do the best I can, but like I'm very much in the present. And if I'm like locked in heated battle with someone, I don't want to be listening to music. I want to take your soul. I don't want to be, you know, listening to absolutely taking your soul, you know. I don't know. Thoughts there.
SPEAKER_00:So so wrapping this thing up, I want to give you the last word on this. What is what do you want to leave everybody with um as we're as we're moving into 2026, or I guess we're in 2026 now, but in the early stages of it. Uh, what do you want to leave the audience with and what to look forward to?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, dude, first of all, just a giant thank you. Like if you're listening to this and you're this far, if you're 48 minutes and 51 seconds into this and you're still listening to it, um, dude, thank you so much. Thank you for listening. Thank you for giving this, you know, especially in a world where like there's so much competing for your attention. And, you know, if you enjoy the sport and you're getting something out of it, I'm I'm so excited that like I can help bring you some value. Um, I hope there's something there for everybody. I hope and I really hope that there's um you know, that listening to these athletes and listening to these stories gets you excited and gets you uh excited to go do your own challenges and and go, you know, chase your own goals in life. And even listening to me on this, like me pursuing whatever this is, whatever that becomes, and whether it becomes something or doesn't, like, at least we're pursuing. And I think that, if anything, I hope that inspires people that have they had their own personal project, and no matter where you are in life, like if you have your own personal project that you want to do, go fucking do it. Don't wait, don't sit on it. I sat on like this idea for like two years before I did it and bounced it off a bunch of people and then finally just did it. And so if I could leave anybody with anything, it it's thank you. And um, if you're excited about doing something or want to do something, go do it. Um and yeah, what to look forward to in 2026? Like, this thing is not gonna like this is the worst we're gonna be. And I say this for my running, and I say this for my and I say this for the podcast. We're only gonna improve and we're only gonna get better from here. So if you've been along for the ride thus far, there's gonna be a lot more value coming your way. There's gonna be a lot more things, um, a lot more excitement, you know. Be be stoked on the horizon for what we have coming. And uh yeah, this thing is is is the worst it's gonna be. That's all I have to say. And and uh I know that's that's that's an intense point to make, but you know, I think that's that's what I can say is like lots of opportunities in 2026. And one thing I didn't, you know, one last thing I didn't hit on, and I think I I needed to was community, man. Um one of the big things that I need to do better of, and I didn't really kind of gloss on this and maybe glossed over it, was just being more involved in my community and getting out there and doing things for the community and uh being a presence in one way, shape, or forum. So you know, my front range community in Colorado Springs, Denver Boulder, um, you know, expect to see more of me. We're gonna be at more things. Like we will at the summer, I'm gonna be at all the Las Purtiva group runs and we'll be handing out stickers and saying hello. And uh, you know, you can ask me questions and you know, be happy to answer anything and we could spend time together. Um, and that's gonna happen in a lot of different places across the front range and and uh at the races that we go to as well. Like, you know, and I also want people's feedback, dude. Like if you don't like something, tell me. If there's something, if you really have some good constructive criticism and you want something to change and do better that I can be better at, let me know. Um you know, I've got this vision, but like I say this all the time. I'm building this boat as uh as we're sailing it, dude. So I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Um, I'm just a dude. So for me, it's um yeah, I I I you know I I really wouldn't just say like I'm so appreciative for the people that listen to this. And and like I said, this is the worst we're gonna be, and we're uh just gonna get better. And I look forward to uh you know being on the ride with everybody.
SPEAKER_00:So I think perfect. I think that's an absolutely amazing, amazing way to end this. And and James, no, I I mean thank you. Thank you for allowing me to come on here and you know, allow you to be this open about you know the wins, the messes, the you know, all of what made the steep stuff different from any other uh media out there. And I truly, truly believe that. You know, I'm a big fan. And you know, if you're listening and you care about where trail running media is actually headed, this is the conversation, the types of conversations that matters, and it's something that I think that you're doing an amazing job of. Um, so with that, uh thank you, everybody. I've been uh uh honored to be here as the guest host of the Steep Stuff podcast. I'm Francesco Censeri. This is the state of the Steep Stuff, and we'll see you out there in 2026. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. This was an amazing conversation, and and definitely the most this is the most tamed I've ever had you on a podcast. I love it.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, dude, I it's it's uh well, you know, hey look, man, I think there's uh there were definitely some moments where I was like, uh, you know, but you know, look, at the end of the day, I think that there's there's a clear vision for what you wanted to get out with this. And you know, I we don't, you know, I didn't I didn't there didn't think there was anything any anything necessary to step on any of that, right? Like I think it's just letting letting you shine, let your vision come through. Um it's kind of that's that's kind of how I saw the whole thing going. So I appreciate it, dude. It was fun, man. I like I I I enjoyed it. Yeah, so it's so is this is the editing portion. Is it gonna be that much easier for you with with the way Riverside works to be able to get this thing out super quick or what?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, oh my god, dude. So I mean, I I haven't stopped us from rolling yet. Uh maybe this is like inside baseball for the audience to listen to, but um yeah, this will come out this afternoon. Deep cuts. Yeah, all I gotta do is all I gotta do is hit stop. And uh I don't really there's nothing I said, and certainly not anything you said that I'm like, oh we need to edit that. I mean, you know, um my like camera was freaking out a little bit in the beginning, so I might have lost some camera. Uh I don't know, I might have lost some like video for the YouTube aspect. I don't know. I've never had that happen before. But um Yeah, it's dude. I love River, I love Riverside, it's amazing, but like every now and then it'll throw a technical error at me that like I was not expecting. So Yeah, yeah. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, I've been playing hell. I've been playing hell with my Logitech cameras. I was I spent literally 30 minutes this morning trying to get it set up, and then I finally put my other my little my little Logitech 4K that I use for like webcam meetings up. I'm like, this is gonna have to freaking work, and hopefully, hopefully the quality is not terrible. So we'll see. No, you're good. You're good. Sometimes those technical errors, they they yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. Mine was weird. I don't know. There was like in the entirety of the first like 20 minutes of the meeting, uh, I was getting like an it was like trying to like a camera was trying to get in there. And I was like, what? Like I've never had that happen before where it was some and I was I thought it was maybe one of your cameras that was like requesting to be a part of it, and I didn't accept it because your camera seemed fine, your audio seemed fine. I don't know. All right, I'm gonna end this now because people are like, what the fuck are we saying? I'm gonna hit stop. Thanks, buddy. All right, there we go. All right, that stopped it. Um sorry, yeah. Uh, what'd you guys think? Uh really appreciate everyone uh you know following along and uh listening to this one. This is a special one. So uh and genuinely appreciative to Francesco for uh helping to guest host uh this one. Guys, if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a five-star ring and review on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube, wherever you consume your podcast. That's how we can continue to get these episodes out to the world and enact the plans that we have for 2026. Uh big stuff to come. Guys, this week is gonna be a banger week. Uh, I've got episodes dropping uh with none other than one of the greatest, if not the greatest, female trail runner of all time on the short trail side, Miss Grayson Murphy. Uh finally, finally, finally, so excited to have her on. Um, and we've got a bunch of other stuff coming coming down the pipeline. So hope you enjoy it. Uh, thanks so much.
