The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#156 - Matt Chorney
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Want to know how an elite mountain runner designs the very supplements he trusts on race day? We sit down with Momentous VP of Innovation, Matt Chorney, to connect the dots between steep trail performance, clean ingredient sourcing, and the certifications that actually protect athletes. Matt’s story stretches from New Hampshire’s rugged roots to Jackson’s endless access, and he brings that same blend of grit and curiosity to building products that stand up in pro and collegiate locker rooms.
We dig into the difference between “third-party tested” and true third-party certification, and why NSF Certified for Sport or Informed Sport should be non-negotiable if you care about your career—or simply your health. Matt outlines the Momentous three—protein, creatine, and omegas—as everyday pillars backed by research, then walks us through a smarter path to better sleep using apigenin, magnesium L-threonate, and L-theanine. No knockout melatonin bombs here, just targeted support for falling asleep, staying asleep, and getting deeper recovery.
Then we switch gears to racing and real-world tools. Sodium bicarbonate is hot, but the GI tradeoffs are real; Matt explains how a topical option like PR lotion can buffer acidosis without wrecking your gut. We also get into training philosophy and longevity: choosing joy over pressure, skipping a marathon when the spark isn’t there, and using mountain days to build sustainable fitness. With Broken Arrow on the horizon and classic adventure routes on deck, Matt shows how science can fuel the soul of the sport.
Trail running is having a moment—bigger prize purses, crossover stars, and growing visibility—so protecting the culture while raising performance matters more than ever. If you care about clean fueling, smarter sleep, and steep trail stoke, this conversation delivers. If you enjoyed the show, follow, share with a friend, and leave a quick rating or review—your support helps us keep bringing you thoughtful stories from the mountains.
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Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello, and today I am so excited to welcome Matt Chorney to the show. Matt's an interesting character in our sport. He is both an elite athlete, having had some crazy finishes over the last few years, including a top 15 placement at the U.S. Mountain Running Championship last year at Sunnepe. I also watched him take fourth place at the Cirque Series Grand Target race, where he ran under an hour, which is a super fast time on that course. Outside of that, he's got a really interesting job. And one of the things I've been wanting to do with the podcast in 2026 is have interesting conversations with folks that have really cool jobs in the space. Matt is the vice president of innovation at Momentus, a brand you guys are probably familiar with as they uh are kind of the one of the biggest, if not the biggest, name in the supplementation space right now, especially when it comes to endurance athletes. Um you're talking everything from proteins to omegas, creatines, and a lot of other different types of uh supplementation. Matt and I kind of talked all about the brand itself. Um he was an employee very early on and he's had gotten uh to play a role in uh the growth of the business over the last uh since he started, which is pretty exciting. Um we also got into uh some technical stuff and some of the more nitty-gritty aspects of uh just uh protein supplementation, everything from learning more about third-party tested to NSF certified for sport and uh some other interesting topics that I think athletes probably would want to pay attention to, especially because a lot of us do take supplements. You want to know where your stuff comes from and you want to make sure it's coming from clean sources. So definitely an interesting conversation nonetheless, and uh I'm super appreciative of Matt for his time to uh come on and have this conversation. So without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one, Matt Chorney. Ladies and gentlemen, sweet! Hey guys, one more thing before we get started. Our guest, Matt, was kind enough to pass along a discount code for you guys for Momentist. That's right, just for the listeners in the pod, this is gonna be good through March. Use code steep pod. That's one word steep pod, and it's gonna get you 15% off your next order at Momentous. Uh, like I said, good through March, one word steep pod. Check it out. It's also gonna be in the show notes. Um, and yeah, it's just for listeners. So thanks, Matt. Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_00:Things are great. Yeah, how are you?
SPEAKER_01:I'm doing well. I'm excited to have you on, dude. I uh I always like having these conversations with uh with different athletes from throughout the sport. And you know, you are a very talented athlete in your own right, but you also have a really cool job. So I was like, oh, this is a great opportunity for a fun conversation. So how's uh how's how's the winter treating you in uh Jackson right now?
SPEAKER_00:Uh it's felt more like fall, I think, than probably winter days that we've had so far. Um but yeah, I mean it's still it's still great. I mean, the good part about uh Jackson is like there's never uh shortage of activities that you can do. So, you know, it's January, and as much as I would love to be powder skiing, um, you know, 50 degrees feels like in the sun sometimes, like still great running weather. So uh, you know, and I grew up on the East Coast, so it's like a little bit firmer, icy snow, and that's still really, really fun skiing, too. So it's been great.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Yeah. I dude, I I mean, I gotta ask, that's probably the lead question is like, how do you like living there? It's it's obviously such a destination town for so many people across the country. I enjoy my time there every time I go there for a Cirque Series race or for something else. I mean, it seems like just like a great playground.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I think it's the like world's greatest playground. Like it's uh, I mean, the outdoor opportunities here are truly endless. And I mean, I've I've lived here since 2011, and I literally feel like whether it's summer, winter, spring, or fall, there's some new activity that I didn't even realize was possible in this valley. Uh, and then the Tetons that you can get into. Um and as much fun as like the the mountains and the rivers and the lakes and you know everything is here is like the community, to your point, it is like such a tourist destination, but the community here is just outstanding as well. And honestly, that's probably been the thing that's kept me here over the years, is like there's so many amazing people and individuals, and there's also so many great mentors where, like I said, there's there's so many awesome activities, and so many people are experts in that specific niche, whether it's rafting, climbing, skiing, running, biking, caving, you know, whatever. And so you kind of have like this opportunity to participate in so many different uh like variables and different activities, and also be mentored by like truly experts and like some of like the most experienced people in that specific niche. So uh yeah, it's just it's a really unique, I think, community. Um and it attracts like a very passionate type of person. Um and yeah, I mean, living in Jackson, I mean, I guess like a quick backstory, like my parents both lived out here and met out here in the late uh late 70s, early 80s. Um so Jackson's sort of always been like pretty familiar. Um and then when I was really little, my dad uh ran a summer school program out here, and so we would kind of live here from like April to August, September. Um and then yeah, we would just had some really close family friends that were out here. And when I graduated college, I did like a quick, quick stint in Boston for a finance gig and was working in a cubicle, and I was like, this is rough. I don't know if I can do this. Uh and so I lasted about like six or eight months, and then decided uh I convinced my parents to sort of let me move to Jackson for the summer. Um we had some family friends that ran a sort of outdoor gear shop climbing store uh here, and they were like, Yeah, you know, we'll hook you up with a job for the summer. And my dad and I drove out, and uh there's like one kind of uh last pass that you come into the east side of the valley, it's called Togedy, uh Togedy Pass. And it's kind of the first time you get the view of the Tetons. And I remember my dad, after like three days of driving, just kind of like smirked and looked over. He's like, You're gonna be here longer in the summer. And almost 15 years later, I guess he was right. Um it's been awesome. I mean, it's it's uh I grew up in New Hampshire and that's very much like still home. My family is all back there, and I love going back and visiting, but Jackson is uh is for sure like my community and where where I spend want to spend my time.
SPEAKER_01:And New Hampshire's just different. Like I love the East Coast, especially the whites and just you know everything that goes, even even the greens as well in Vermont. Like there's it's a great playground there. It's technical, it's different, it's just a different kind of game. Um is that how you kind of got into like mountain and winter sports? Was living on the East Coast as far as like being in kind of in that New Hampshire community?
SPEAKER_00:Pretty much. I mean, I grew up uh I would say like in the lakes region, right on Newfoundland Lake, so it's like not just kind of right at the base of the whites. Um, you know, it's like um I don't know, I always sort of equate it to it's like the exact same activities that I do out here now, whether it's you know, running, being in the mountains, skiing, um, fishing, lakes, streams, but everything's just bigger out here, right? The mountains are bigger, the lakes are a little bigger. Um and but it's the same, it's the same activities. So I think growing up in New Hampshire, it's funny, it's like when when I was growing up there, trail running was I didn't I didn't even think of trail running was like it was a thing, but it would I didn't like associate trail running, it was just running, right? Like we would run on the trails for cross-country practice, we would run on the trails behind our house just as like lunatic seven-year-olds like raging through the trees and stuff with my brother, and like that was just running, and so like my first like trail running, I think, like association really came from being out here because like it's and the community back east has like grown so much, whether it's backcountry skiing and or trail running. Where now when I go back and I see friends and you know they're doing all these really awesome runs up and down Mount Washington and the Prezies and like you know, Pemi Loop and all these things, and it's so cool. But like when we would go and do that as kids, we would just we would hike like that was those were hiking trails, and we didn't really run them. I remember like our parents were like, Don't run, you're gonna trip and fall on a route or something. Uh and so when I go back and visit now, it's so it's so much fun to like go up Mount Lafayette and you know you can do it. You know, my my still vision of Mount, you know, all those mountains is like, man, these are full day activities, like this is gonna take six to eight hours, and like sometimes it does, but like you could also run them in an hour and a half uh now. And I'm just like, oh, this is so cool, it's so fun. You can do this like before work if you want to. Um but yeah, I think growing up back east was was so fun, and just like it it made me truly appreciate and I still do like just being outside and like having fun adventures outside, and whether that's walking, running, skiing, doing whatever, uh just being outside is like the most important thing.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I love it. It's interesting too, because like the northeast, I feel like the whites now get some traffic, but Jackson, especially after going there the last two summers and spending time just in those mountains, it's kind of astonishing sometimes, like now with social media culture and everything's on a reel, just how many people flock to these places. Um, how do you deal with, especially living in Jackson or just living in that area? Um, like just the influx of people. Like, do you try to get out like and try to get out of there, like get out in the mountains, or do you just like assimilate with it? Like, how does that work for you, somebody like you?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I think it's like yeah, I mean, there's definitely two schools of thought, right? It's like, you know, there's one, I I I want more people outside, I want more people being active, and I want more people running and exploring. But at the same time, you show up to a trailhead and you have to park like now three-quarters of a mile away. Um and it's more of like just people being good stewards in the mountains as well. Um But I mean, the joke is here is like the parking lot might be really, really busy, and maybe the first like three-quarters of a mile or two miles of the of a trail is really busy, but excluding a few places in the park, you can get away from people really, really fast and easy. Um and so I mean, I've never really had issues with oh, I don't we shouldn't go do this. I mean, if you're gonna run around Jenny Lake at one o'clock on a Saturday on the 4th of July, like, yeah, it's gonna be rough. Uh but if you go after 4 p.m. or or done before 9 a.m., most of the time you're gonna be fine. Um, and so it's it's it's maybe a little bit picking like where you want to go, but for the most part, I would say don't get like uh don't get deterred by how busy the parking lot is because it's not always like what that is, you know, a mile and a half up the trail.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Let me ask you this. I and I this is just out of pure I I wouldn't I don't want to say ignorance, but I I have never been there in the winter, and I know it's got some of the best skiing in the country, if not the world, uh at certain times of the year. Does it get really busy in the winter? Like, is it attract like a good amount of tourism from the skiing industry?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, yeah, for sure. Um I think the big like the difference between the summer and the winter crowds is like in the summer, people are just like sprawled out everywhere. You know, they're there's just a lot of people in a lot of different areas, and in the winter, like Jacksonville Mountain Resort gets really, really busy. Um but outside of that, and like town feels really busy because most people are like coming to ski the village or they're coming to hang out in town. Maybe they're going snowshoeing in the park, but that's like even a smaller subset of people. So it's just very like isolated, I would say, like population pockets. Um where like in those areas it's gonna feel really, really busy. But you could go north into the park and feel like there's no one around. Teton Pass is like a really common uh and great place you know for skiing as well. And like on the weekends it gets really busy, and you know, if it's hasn't snowed like now and we get some snow, it's gonna be really busy before work and things like that too. But again, like parking lot busyness versus like a couple miles out or even a mile out, totally different. Um but yeah, I think in I don't know, it's always a joke of like the people that come in the winter, they're here to usually ski, and hopefully skiing is good and people are just like really having fun and like happy. Sometimes in the summer, it's like the the energy levels are just different between like the summer crowd and the and the winter crowd.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Yeah, it's funny, man. You bring up uh like I don't know, I should have done it, I should have checked him out the last time I was there. But this year when I go out, Mount Glory and Mount Taylor, I think it's Mount Taylor, right off the pass, are two like segments I had on my Strava, like ready to tick off and go check out. It seems like great, great spots to to go run up and down. Um totally. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, it's something about that zone that like because I'm in Colorado Springs and like I don't know, it's your tree line's a little bit lower, so like you get better payoff. I feel like once you hit above 9,000 feet, like there's sparser trees and and it's a little bit lower, so you feel like you're higher up. Whereas in like Colorado, I mean you gotta be at like 11 or 12,000 feet for the tree line. And so it's it's much different, if you will, as far as uh some of the mountain running. It's got a different feel, and some of it's steeper where you are, which is cool. I don't know. Different zones have like different properties, which I think is uh unique and uh just adds a different perspective.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, Taylor and Glory are too awesome. I mean, Glory in the winter is like sort of the go-to before work um ski lap where you just like boot pack up. It's about I don't know, anywhere between like an hour round trip to if you go really, really fast, maybe you're doing like 40 minutes up and down. Um, but it's it's just like it has some awesome, awesome skiing. In the summer, it's like a really steep kind of crummy trail, but you can like go up the the winter, you know, summer boot pack route and then traverse along the ridge and do some really fun loops back down uh a little bit further on the pass. And then same thing with Taylor. I was actually on Taylor yesterday and um some really, really fun skiing. It's a little bit higher than Glory, it starts a little bit lower. Um and phenomenal running, super fun ridges, um, really, really fun skiing also. And you just like you kind of like it's it's those two places specifically, um, where I actually just moved to Wilson and they're like really close to the house now. Um where you're just like, man, I can do that before work, after work, if I push it maybe on a lunch break, and you just feel so like privileged to have that right in your backyard with such unbelievable terrain. Uh it's one of the I mean that's like one of the things just like sometimes you just like I don't know, I've been here a minute now and I still pinch myself that I get to have that access so close.
SPEAKER_01:The access is crazy, man. I mean I've been working on my wife to like I've been trying to talk to her about moving to Drags and so far no, no, no luck. But one of these days, maybe, I don't know. Yeah, the the access is what just what's so crazy. Uh I mean, really doesn't matter what side of uh the the range you're on. Like there is just like I mean, whether you're on the Targy side or the uh uh Idaho side, I mean that's amazing access, and the Jackson side's even better. I mean, it's it's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:So no, Victor Victor Drigs is so fun, also. I mean, there's some really, really cool adventures up up some of those canyons as well. And yeah, uh unbelievable access. Victor has like the best milkshakes in the world, also. Uh do they really? Oh, yeah, Victor Emporium. Next time you're rolling through, stuff in there, get some get some milkshakes.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, dude. Noted dual rage.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:All right. So let's let's shift uh shift the topic a little bit. I want to talk about your role and what you do with Momentus. It's part of the reason why I did want to have you on the pod, just because um, you know, I love speaking with athletes. You and you you're this unique hybrid where you are both an athlete at an extremely high level, and we'll talk about some of the things you've done and will be doing, but also you have this amazing job with Momentus, which is uh, I mean, I'm a personal user of of the brand as far as the uh you know different vitamins and supplements and things like that that I use. And I don't know, I just feel like they've they have an incredible level of product out there that they have in the marketplace. So maybe talk about what you do with them and uh we'll kind of go from there.
SPEAKER_00:Totally. Uh well, one, thanks for thanks for being a customer and supporting. Uh it's always always fun. Um oh man, I don't know what's where to start. Uh yeah, so I guess like kind of full full backstory. So uh I've been with Momento since day one. Uh it'll be 10 years this summer, uh, where we started actually in Jackson in 2016. Um and it was myself and one other person also named Matt. Matt Wan was the uh sort of original founder, graduate from Jackson High School. Uh I coached him in tracking cross-country as well. Um and you know, early on when there was just two of us, we both wore a lot of hats. Uh everything from customer service, setting up a website, uh, Amazon, finance operations, like you know, if you sort of just like split the responsibilities down the middle, you take this, I'll take that. Uh, but I've always sort of found myself within like the supply chain and operations, and that's kind of like where I was just the most passionate and interested. So um we had this sort of fundamental belief that like the world did not need another protein powder company out there, uh, but we did believe that it needed a better one. Um so we had the opportunity to partner with a couple professional dietitians and strength and conditioning coaches, and we essentially went and you know, kind of told them our idea, and we're like, if you guys could build a protein powder, where would you get the ingredients from? What would be the ratio and you know, sort of like formulation for the for the specific products and and the ingredients? What wouldn't you put in it? What type of certifications does it need to live up to? And then it was my job to go and find a manufacturer that would actually be flexible enough to go find, you know, a whey protein from you know some grass-fed farm in Europe with you know all these like laundry lists of requirements and things like that, uh, and then to do it in a brand new startup format of very low quantities and uh things like that. And I got laughed out of a lot of uh meetings in terms of what we wanted to accomplish, but um I guess like a lot of the roots in the DNA and like kind of the the commitment to quality and truth independent third party certification started from day one. And we knew we wanted to build a product that lived in professional and collegiate locker rooms, not so much to like only service athletes, but as like if they're if it's good enough to live in that locker room, it's good enough. We wanted to build a company. A product for everyone. And so when we think about what are the high performers and the top level athletes using and why, and then bringing that to everyone. Because if you're thinking about it as like protein powder, then what we still view it as like protein is a macronutrient, right? Everyone needs protein. And the reality is most people are not getting enough protein throughout their typical diet. And I think there's a lot of benefits of a protein powder. There's a lot of, you know, sort of like nuance within the protein powder sector as well. So picking the right one for you is important. But we really thought about it doesn't matter if you know LeBron James is using it, it's going to be good enough. That that same quality of protein should be the same quality of protein that everyone's using. So we learned a lot of like where to source ingredients from, how do we get it tested and certified? Um, what type of manufacturing processes do we need to go through? And you know, all along the way, my role now is new product, sort of like innovation, and um where I spend most of my time is ingredient sourcing, new products, certification, science, um, and quality for uh for Momentous. So we've uh we've launched a lot of other products of since then of just protein powders. But um I think along the way, whether it's like a protein powder that's gonna live for an for an athlete or like a zinc or a multivitamin that maybe is less athletic specific, it still has every single fundamental component of building it for a pro and collegiate um locker room use.
SPEAKER_01:I think that was one of the biggest things that stuck out to me, and why I choose to uh use that product is because uh I mean, it seems, uh I mean, it not even seems like it comes across like very um product first, a lot of dedication to cleanliness, dedication to it being um I don't know like the words escape me for what I'm trying to go with, but like you could just tell it's it's very legitimate. And in a world where you got to be really careful with your supplements. I mean, if you're buying stuff off Amazon, for instance, right? Like a lot of stuff's fake. Um I think it's very important, especially from the athletic side, to get legit stuff. And and that's what it always you know stuck out to me with. Um one of the questions I have for you uh about early on, right? I I don't know if people understand this, but like trying to go to places where you're trying to get clean vats and get things that aren't uh maybe tainted or whatever, because a lot of times athletes will test positive for stuff that they didn't even know they were taking. Um, you know, whether it's some sort of anabolic or whatever when they're just trying to take a multivitamin and because the vats aren't clean. How how how that must have been a pain in the ass to try and do that from day one, try to find these places that are gonna have uh just clean vats and kind of like clean sports certified, if you will.
SPEAKER_00:Oh man, we go down a rabbit hole right now. Oh, go for it, go for it. Yeah, so the the supplement industry is crazy uh in a lot of ways. And it's gotten it's gotten better, I would say, over the years, uh at least you know, the the almost 10 years that I've been a part of it. Uh but to your point, there's so many different steps along the supply chain, whether it's from the raw raw ingredient supplier to the manufacturer that's going to blend it, encapsulate it to the packaging lines, to the warehousing and stability process that goes through, um always showing up on your front doorstep, ultimately, right? Like there's so many different steps and so many different opportunities for something to sneak into the product that, you know, as a brand or as a manufacturer had no intention of actually ending up there, but it very well could. And so one thing I would say, and this is like not fear-mongering at all, but like if you're an athlete and you have, even if even if you're not an athlete, like I wouldn't take any supplement that is not third-party certified. And what I mean by third party, like third party tested is the very like marketing nuance language, I think. And you know, every supplement brand says they're third parties tested, and they're starting to say they're third party certified. And what Mementus believes is third-party certification is we use NSF certified for sport. Um, and that is a true independent third party. Like it takes a very long time to get these products certified, costs a lot of money, and you do it every single production lot. And not even like, and there'll be multiple lots within a production batch, right? Like, and so they're testing every single lot for banned substance screening, so to make sure there isn't any cross-contamination within the product and finished product, right? Like we're not testing powders or you know, pre-capped um samples. It's like we're literally sending packaged units in for these third-party set testings. And um you never know, right? Like we we have great manufacturers, we have unbelievable um audited annually, cleanliness, cross-contamination processes and protocols put into place to you know have it all dialed in and like still stuff goes sideways. And we've had failed things that have, you know, we've had to scrap entire production lots because something weird um happened. And if we didn't have those certifications and those steps put into place, most of the time they're not a consumer health risk, right? Like it's not it's not something that's necessarily harmful, but if you're a professional athlete, it could be a big deal. Um so yeah, I don't know. If I was if you have any opportunity to purchase a product, I would only purchase something that's either informed sport or NSF certified for sport, because those are like pretty much the guarantees that this product's been tested, it's been certified. And not that you shouldn't trust brands that you know they're putting their best step forward, but um you should definitely kind of want to do a double tap on that. Because it's just there's just like kind of going back to that, there's just too many steps, there's too many opportunities for something weird to go on. And yeah, I don't I don't think anyone's being malicious about it. Um, but there's there's just a lot of you know things that could happen.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, and it happens to a lot, like I I think the best example I can think of that's like been very that caught a note a lot of notoriety in recent years was uh I think it was Khalil Roundtree Jr., who was uh an MMA fighter. He's like a UFC fighter. And he had like caught, I don't know, he tested positive, but immediately like went to the UFC and was like, hey, this was from a tainted supplement. Like they were able to figure it out really quickly. I I guess a random company that he had been working with that was sourcing supplements for him figured out pretty quickly that it was from he tested positive that was in the tainted supplement. And he still had to serve like obviously like a six-month ban or something like that. And then he went on a podcast, I think it was on Joe Rogan, and he was talking about it and things like that. Um, but it just goes to show you how much like it really matters because it could derail your career as an athlete six months to a year if you test positive for something you didn't even know you were taking, which is kind of wild.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, and that's like you know, I look at a lot of the sports nutrition products out there now, and you know, I have I have friends that are taking, I'm not gonna name brands, but just stuff that isn't third-party certified. And I'm like, man, that's like again, like it doesn't need to be a complicated product, could be a vitamin D, right? Like the likeliness of something going sideways in vitamin D, unlikely, but I can tell you for sure it happens. Um and again, like without that, without that stamp of you know, certification on there. I would say the risk is very, very low, but it's still a risk. For sure. For sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:There's uh so one of the things I found through Momentus that I take religiously, like every day, is this um, and this is not like a this is this is just me being uh an athlete and finding stuff that works for me. Is I found I think it's apigenin. Apogenin is the right way to pronounce it. Apigenin. It's uh apigenin. Um, and what I'm trying to say is like that's not an easy thing to get a hold of. Like that's a very random thing that has worked very well for me. Who comes up with this stuff? Is that like under your belt, like to come up with these things that uh, you know, that are kind of like not out there, but it's not a super common thing you're gonna find on the shelf, even in like a vitamin shop. I don't think so. Um and yeah, so maybe talk about like products like that that you guys are continuously kind of developing and finding out and putting out into the world uh that really welcome work well for athletes and just folks in general.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, totally. I think a big part of our product strategy is uh we want to have a product portfolio that hopefully can service people in a really helpful and beneficial way, right? And so when we think about like what drives the biggest impact into people's lives, we call it the momentous three. And so that's protein, creatine, and omegas. And so those are like three of the most well-studied, popular, longest standing supplements around, right? Creatine has unbelievable, you know, cognitive benefits, strength benefits, muscle energy recovery. Uh, omega-3 is, you know, heart, brain health, like long-term benefits. And then kind of like we were talking about earlier, protein is just like this fundamental macronutrient that everyone needs. Um and so starting there is really where we've like kind of built the basis of momentous. Like we want to be able to serve like what's gonna drive the biggest impact. And then from there, obviously, there's people that you know want to have sleep optimization, and in which case there's specific types of magnesium or apigenin or L theanine that can be really beneficial to help you know optimize people's sleeps without making a standard sleep supplement and loading it up with a ton of melatonin that's just gonna knock you out. I'm like, are you gonna fall asleep? Yeah, but what's your quality of sleep actually gonna be like? So with a product like apogenin, it's really quite interesting where um you know its benefits are really toggled to help like relax and sort of maintain a um an even keeled sleep. So we come combo it with uh a magnesium L-3 inate and L-theanine. And so they're three individual products that uh we sort of combined for like our sleep protocol, uh, which helps you fall asleep, stay asleep, and kind of enhance the quality of deep sleep. Um and so we think about sleep as a category, right? It's like the same thing as like protein as a category. It's like sleep is something that every single person needs. And if you can improve your sleep, you're gonna improve so many other aspects of life. And then we kind of go through another categories of like cognitive benefits and cognitive health, where it's like if you can just, if you can have you know uh long-term brain benefits and help sustain that, what are we looking at from a supplementation process and protocol from there? So we really approach it, and then gut health is another one that we're we're starting to look at really seriously now. Um, and then you have athletic supplements and sort of performance categories. Um so we look at it more of like um human behavior and what are like big drivers within human processes and protocols, whether it's sleep, cognitive, sports, hormones, gut health. Um and then we do a deep dive into science and work with you know either internal or external subject matter experts to think about what are the right products, what are the right ingredients, what is the right clinical study dose that we can you know have an effective uh benefit from. Uh so that's sort of how we explore new products and new ingredients specifically at a super high level. Um and then you know, expanding in said categories of like do we want you know unique form factors or flavors or you know, combinations of ingredients to help reduce the number of capsules to make actual formulas instead of standalone single ingredients?
SPEAKER_01:Super cool. Yeah, I appreciate you being open and like talking about that. I I gotta ask you, because you had mentioned subject matter experts. Uh Andrew Huberman is like a very like speaks a about a lot of the products. Um like how how were you guys able to get like that stamp of approval and to work with him? Like, I think that's really interesting and cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, um man, I think so we partnered with Huberman 2022, I believe. Um and I mean Huberman's obviously a genius in so many areas and is a subject matter expert in so many different areas as well. And you know, a lot of his guests, like if he's not a specific, you know, um, you know, expert in an area, his you know, podcast guests are you know unbelievable resources as well. Um, and Huberman was definitely a person who had a lot of influence over like when we think about sleep, when we think about some of these categories, and um he was really helpful and you know still is uh very helpful on just creating sort of like how do we think about these protocols and how do we think about behaviors that can support these protocols, right? Like supplements, I would say is like the 10% of what will overall help people, right? Like it's gotta start with behavioral changes, um, and whether that's a pre like good, you know, sleep hygiene where it's like you're not looking at your phone and then trying to fall asleep, um, and just like simple behavioral edits that you can make to hopefully drive again that biggest impact into people's lives. Supplements play a role in that, but they're not the only tool in the in the toolbox there. Um so Huberman has you know been a great thought partner. Um we used to sponsor the podcast, we don't currently, uh, but he's yeah, I mean I obviously like to bounce ideas off him, and you know, obviously, like he's so in tune with what um both is sort of like within the world kind of emerging, um, has been really helpful as well. Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:I I have a totally out of left field product question for you that just popped up in my head. I've been thinking about this. I used to so dr see Drogue, yeah, Joe Gray all the time with the PR lotion. And I've never ordered it for myself, and I've like been meaning to. What is that specifically?
SPEAKER_00:Uh so PR lotion um is it's basically a topical sodium bicarbonate, right? So Morton has come out with their sodium bicarb as well. And PR lotion has been around since 2017, 2018. Um, and its original goal was basically to bypass the GI possible issues that you would get with consuming sodium bicarb. So it's it's a topical lotion that you would apply like 30 to 60 minutes before training, specifically endurance, you know, running, cycling, um, nordic skiing, things like that, uh, to your like major muscle groups, so quads, hamstrings, glued, lower back, things like that, depending on the what you're training, I guess, probably specifically. But uh, it buffers the lactic acid and the pH level in the muscle. Uh so very similar to what Morton has just come out with, or I guess has came out with last year, a couple of years ago, um, but in a much different form factor way.
SPEAKER_01:Say less. You just sold one for me. I'm gonna literally order it after this.
SPEAKER_00:I do not you know, it's it's super interesting. It's a really unique product, and it's um it's something we still have. It's still on um it's you know, it's called Amp Human PR lotion um in the product line. But the uh the use case and like the adoption for that product had had such a great, great you know, adoption and following. And you know, it's I don't know, people people use different things for different different reasons, but I think like uh Joe Gray has been like a very early, if not one of the first adopters of it. And um from a science level, it reacts the exact same, you know, in the body. It's more of like you just have to make it the timing right of where they when you actually apply it and things like that.
SPEAKER_01:Gotcha. Yeah, it's super interesting because like I think the big thing now, you see David Roche and others, everybody's talking about bicarb. It's like the the hot new thing that's out now or hot thing that's out. And I dude, I've even seen like companies talking about I saw like uh bicarb bars recently on Instagram. I had like like saved the tab for it. So it's like starting to really take out and and been being a big thing. But if you could do it without having to consume anything and you just topically apply it, like that's say less. That makes life so much easier, you know.
SPEAKER_00:That's like it's you know, it's a really good point. I haven't I haven't done a ton of like research or overall thinking about it so much, but like when you're when you actually consume the the bicarb, right? Like it's a lot of sodium going into your system. And I don't know ultimately what the difference would be between like topical lotion versus you know consuming uh the product, like if that's if there's like different areas in there, but yeah, I don't know. That's it, that's a curious, curious one. Um, if there's any changes. I mean, certainly the great part about the lotion is like you reduce any risk for GI distress, you know. And I think like the I think the Morton product has done a pretty good job of protecting that by kind of um you know hydroproofing it, but you know, I think if you get the ratio wrong, it still could be a risk.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And plus, like, I mean, I think the biggest complaint I hear from most people is the taste. Taste tastes horrible. Which I have not tried it. It's pretty sledgy. Yeah. So when you're comparing that to something you just rub on your body, it's like, you know, like I said, say less, it's it's much easier. Um I want to shift gears a little bit out of momentus and talk about you as the runner now that we're about the halfway mark. Um, like I said, you are this interesting dichotomy where you have this really cool role, but you're also an extremely elite athlete in your own right. Like you are, I mean, dude, I was really blown away this summer. I mean, you went, what, 54 minutes at Cirque Series Grand Target, which is a very elite time. I mean, anything under an hour on that course is pretty legit. Um, you've also won rendezvous back in the day, like not too long ago. You compete at a very high level. And I was super excited to see you go to Broken Arrow this year, which also prompted part of this conversation, uh, going to the 46K. Um, maybe talk about your running background, dude. I know you you've kind of talked about your background in sport in general, but I know you've got this track and field and cross-country background as well. Maybe talk a little bit about that and how that kind of flowed into trail running for you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Um I, you know, I don't at a high level, I just love running. Like whether it's on a road, track, trail, snow, sand, you know, whatever. I just I love the sport of running. I think the only place you won't find me running is probably on a treadmill. Um just hate the stationary thing. Uh but you know, I I mean I've been running since sixth grade. Uh I have an older brother who's a year older. He's also a runner. My dad was a runner. Uh my dad was actually the cross-country and track coach for like our rivalry high school uh growing up. So uh there's a lot of fun things that happened there. But uh really early on, just like fell in love with the sport, right? Like had an awesome community, you know, through middle school and high school. Um, you know, and it was something that I was pretty good at, I guess. You know, I grew up in a small town, and you know, my brother was a really, really great runner. Uh, I always tried to beat him and I always failed beating him, you know, in high school, uh, except for one race. Um, but ultimately, like, I just I knew I wanted to be this this was like something that was a huge passion of mine. And kind of going back to what we talked about a while ago, it's just like it just got us outside. And like for most of our childhood, like even up until like college, like we didn't really think about going for a run as training. Like going for a run was just fun. Like it was fun to do it with our teammates, it was fun to do it with our you know, siblings and brother. And just like I remember some of the areas that my dad and my parents would take us, and they're like, okay, just go run. Like, just we'll see you in 60 minutes, just go run. And that was just like that was just the most fun, you know. It was like a very like free feeling. And so it didn't matter where it was, it could have been in a city or on a trail or or wherever. Like, that was just like the best part. Um and some of my best friends today are like my high school teammates um that you know I talked to this morning still. Um and I would say my collegiate running career was like m up and down, but probably mostly down. It was uh it was pretty rough. Um and I just remember like graduating college. I mean, like, there's way more in this sport that I want out of. Like, and I know I'm like it just like felt very unfulfilled. Um, and then moving to Jackson, it's like very much just part of the everyday life and culture. And most of the time I was like, man, I need to keep running just so I can like be an athlete to go have friends and run around in the mountains with because you have to be in shape. And I was like, oh god, it's like barrier of entry to friendship here is super high. Um and I've also really appreciated like the role of running that's it played throughout my life, right? Like where through college it was sort of like very much competitive, you know, running, racing, rinse and repeat. And you know, since graduating college and you know, living in Jackson, having a job, you know, running has like provided such an amazing outlet from whether it's just like uh you know, almost like therapeutic, where it's just like I need 30 minutes outside just to clear the head, just go for a run, chill out. Uh and it's just it's been really cool to see how much running has like changed um over the years and like not 25 anymore. So like, you know, I I love to run hard, I love to like still race, but I also realize that like my fastest days in the 800 are probably behind me, not probably, definitely behind me, um, which is totally fine. And I just like I love this personal exploit exploration that the sport can offer, right? Like, no one's ever gonna tell you like this is how fast you're gonna ever run in your entire life. Like, the only way you're ever gonna find that out is to be sort of on this like continuous pursuit of like going after and chasing goals. And I think one thing I found myself is like I sort of have to do it my way. Like, I'm a pretty I think I'm a pretty stubborn person in some areas. And I don't need like necessarily a coach or like a cheerleader to get me out the door in the morning to go for a run. Um, and I almost love like succeeding and failing by my own ridiculous tests uh in the sport. And so I've had like a lot of learning moments, mostly uh hard lessons learned in the sport, but I've also had like um so much fun and it's brought me like to the highest highs, you know, in some areas. It's just been so fun. So for me, running like uh is like a it's a personal passion, and you know, now it's like something that I I want to do forever, obviously, and whether that's just like going out for 30 minutes easy runs or um, you know, I think last year was something I I really learned where running's ebbed and flowed in my life in terms of like how intense it's been and how sometimes it can feel like a chore or almost like a second job. And I realized last year that like for me to have like a really sustainable and healthy relationship with the sport, I need to like keep it like in this fun basket. And so last year was like a really great uh I think year where I just had some some really awesome friends and just like running with my dog, I was just like, this is fun, and I'm just running every day because it's fun, and that was like kind of coming full circle for me. And like I would sign up for races because I thought they were fun. I'd show up at a starting line because I knew it was going to be fun, and I wouldn't worry about like, oh, I need to run a certain time or I need to try and win the race or whatever. Just like if you're gonna if you're having fun, you're gonna be running well, running fast. And so that is like what I focused on. And uh it's still like even it's funny. I I had signed up for the Houston Marathon, which was last weekend, and uh flew all the way down there, and I'd been kind of just like struggling with some stoke. I was just like, man, like I should do this, it's a fast course, I'm in decent shape, like probably a good opportunity to do this. And I got to Houston, I was like, I really don't want to do this. Like it's not like I'm like the stoke wasn't there. I was kind of dealing with a little bit of a shin thing, and I was like, I'm not gonna, I'm just not gonna race. Like, I just made the decision like literally Friday or Saturday before the race at like 6 p.m. I was like, I'm just gonna go get barbecue and chill out, like nice. I uh, you know, and like or I was talking to some friends, like, well, you could do it as a workout, you could just kind of like, and I was like, Yeah, but I just don't want to. Uh and you know, as soon as I said, like, okay, I'm not racing, I wanted to go for a run. Like, I wanted to go out and just go for a run. And I was like, and it just was a good reminder. It's like, okay, like a little bit too much intensity is starting to creep back in, and just like keeping it in a really fun, healthy, you know, headspace, because like life is stressful enough, work is stressful enough. I really don't need a want running to like serve as a component of that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, dude, I think that's beautiful, man. In a lot of ways, like that's a very adult thing to do, to be like, well, I'm just not feeling this, and it's not in my ideals of like what I want to do. I would imagine after the fact, though, you probably felt like you said, you wanted to go for a run, probably felt relieved in a lot of ways, too. Like, I'm I'm gonna take this pressure off myself and put that on for another day, you know. Like, there's there's always an opportunity to race, there's always an opportunity to throw down, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, exactly. And like that was uh like don't get me wrong, I love like I love hammering, like I love going out and like running as hard as I possibly can. And yeah, to your point, it's like there's always more starting lines. And my biggest fear for this one was like if you go out and you throttle yourself and you like finish this race and you're just like I'm kind of done with the sport. Like I just I like didn't I just don't want that sensation and feeling. And I was like, if you say no to it now, you're gonna have another opportunity whenever you want it to go to a starting line, and that's another reset button that you can hit. But like if you go and you like go to the well and back and it's just like really, really not fun for 26.2 miles. Like, I just know myself well. I'm like, you won't run for like five months, maybe like just like you'll put it on the backbone and be like done for a while. And I didn't want that because like I do love running, but yeah, well, and dude, two plus hours.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, you're probably what running on somewhere 230 and under or a little over something somewhere in that range. So, like uh based off of your like your running, so that's a long time to really hate it. Like to be in that in yeah, that's that's not a short period of time to be in your own head, being like, Well, fuck this. Like, what am I doing?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you can rally for a 5k, 10k, and you're probably a half, and that's what I was struggling with. I was like, but a marathon's so far, it's so like even if you're super psyched and super excited for it, like the last six miles of a marathon are so hard, regardless of where your mindset is at the beginning. I was like, if you're feeling this right now, like, dude, yeah, no, right call.
SPEAKER_01:You made the right call. I gotta ask you this part. Oh, I bet, I bet, yeah. I mean, dude, there's there's perks to be in down there, if there is any. Yeah, like that's that's the way to do it. Um the stoke for broken arrow. What what intrigues you? Because I I like this. Like, this is because you know, like, for instance, like rendezvous, right? You've raced world-class competition there, you'll race, you've raced world-class competition at like Cirque Grand Target. This is just that on a bigger level and a longer race. What gets you stoked for something like that? Because like I I think you have the opportunity to do extremely well at a race like this.
SPEAKER_00:It's so it's so funny because like I signed up for Broken Arrow thinking that like, okay, this would be like a cool, like I could just like sign up, show up and run, and like no, like I didn't get like I just signed up like generally organically, right? Like, and then I saw you come out with like the 46k elite men, and I was like, what how the hell did I make this list? What the fuck? I know who's who in the sport. Um but no, I mean, I like the kind of like you know, the personal exploration of the sport of running is like what ultimately like interests me the most. And you know, I've done I've I've done some long trail runs um, you know, in the Tetons and in the Whites and things like that. And I've had a lot of fun uh doing them. And I've only I've I raced to 55k like in 2016, maybe it was like just outside Denver, and that was a huge humbling learning experience. Um, but yeah, this year I was like, I want to put something different on the calendar. Um and I had been to Broken Arrow before just as like a spectator, and it looks like a really, really fun event, and just like the course looks cool, vibe, community, it's just sort of environment looks really, really, really special. And um yeah, I figured why not. So I think from a training perspective, I'm gonna try and ski a bunch and get a bunch of vert in and you know continue to run over the winter. But um, yeah, there's a few other goals like this summer that I really want to tackle uh that are in like that 50 to 55k sort of distance. Uh not necessarily races, but just like routes and things that I want to run. Um, and so Broken Arrow just seemed like a great place to like use it as like use the the competitive atmosphere of a race to sort of bring out like hopefully some good energy and see what happens. But I have no idea, dude. Like I've I've never ran a step on that course. I don't I know like one person from that list that you just posted. Uh and I'm just gonna go and again like toe a line, have fun, see what happens in Florida.
SPEAKER_01:I did my next question, actually, you kind of segued that perfectly because you talked about some adventure runs and things like that. I was gonna ask you like, are you uh especially during the summer months, man, are you one of those athletes to get out and just like love like longer days in the mountains? And to piggyback off that, like, do you ever do you explore a lot? Like that, I feel like there's just like endless opportunities in the area that you live in. Like I would be in the winds like every weekend if I could, just because the winds are just like super legit. Um, yeah, like talk about that and some of the like the projects. You don't have to give away anything that you might uh not you might be doing this summer, but uh some of the things that like get you excited.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, totally. I mean, like there's so many awesome adventures and things to things to do and like link ups to make and you know, up this mountain, down this canyon, back up something else, and loop around something seven times and go through it. Um yeah, and I mean the thing that I've like really, really been enjoying is running with my dog. Um, and so unfortunately you can't run in the park with with a dog, but there's plenty of other places to run in this valley, and you know, the winds is another great example, like you can run uh forever there. So I don't know if there's like specific things um from like a project perspective that I'd be working on this summer, but just plenty of adventures to go run around and have fun outside. Um there's a few things in New Hampshire that I want to do. The PEMI loop is something that like is really, really fun, and I got throttled really hard on it this past fall um in a great way. And I'd love to go back and like run that. I think that's about 30 miles, maybe 29, 30 miles. Um kind of like just the same thing in the backyard growing up. Um I ran I ran it this past fall was the first time I ever did it, and like it was just so cool. It was so much fun. There's so many like uh just interesting points along the way, and I ended up not bringing enough water, ran out of water, drank from a stream, got giardia, and just like really had a had a doozy of uh the next two weeks, but um it was so cool, dude. It was just so much fun to like run fast in the whites because the trails in the whites versus like the Tetons are so so different. Um, like if you get up high in the Tetons and like you're running the grand or you know, something you know in the park, and like yeah, that's you know, you're up screfields and you're doing some like technical climbing and things like that, but like the the ruggedness of the whites and the trails from like literally mile one to mile 30 is just it's a different game. It just it really like it forces you to just think differently, I think, and also just like it's way more physical in some areas, um and just so unforgiving in a lot of aspects too. So that's that's like something that and I'll go back, like my family's still back there, so I'll go back sometime this summer and hang out with them. And my brother's a runner and uh he's like constantly exploring stuff. So um, but no, I mean for the Tetons, there's endless adventures. Um I don't know, just probably try and keep up with Anna Gibson on some stuff if that's possible.
SPEAKER_01:Uh monster, dude. We don't even know how good Anna is.
SPEAKER_00:Uh I mean I I have a pretty good idea how good Anna is. I mean, I I coached her in high school, but she's she's she is on another level right now. Uh but yeah, no, I think there's there's there's some stuff here that I just want to have fun with. And again, like it's not gonna be competitive or for an FKT or anything, it's just gonna be getting out the back door and having fun.
SPEAKER_01:Is there a chance? I was saving this one. I I was I wasn't sure if I was gonna ask this because like we we kind of talked about that we already kind of covered the competition aspect, but like dude, you did like you went top 15 at the US Mountain Running Championship last year at Sunope. Like, that's a pretty legit result. Like, do you think maybe this year you might go back? Is there a chance like you could end up back? Because that's another one that's not too probably not too far from home for you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it's at Sunapy again, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's like 45 minutes from where I grew up, south, probably up to an hour. Um yeah, I don't know. I you know, like that was a really fun one. I remember um this past spring, so I knew I knew Anna was gonna be there and just some other friends that you know were gonna be there. So I was like, oh, of course, it's 45 minutes from the house. Obviously, I'm gonna do it. And then I saw you had to be like a USTF, USATF like member to be in like the actual championship race, and it was like I was like not gonna pay the money to be uh be a member of it just for this one thing. So I was like, I'm just gonna sign up for the race. Uh and yeah, I don't know. I got uh it was a blast though, you know. Like I hadn't been at Tisanipe since eighth grade ski racing, so it was just like a really amazing, like kind of homecoming. And uh yeah, it was a super fun race, and you know, it was cool to also just like the sport of trail running is like on this insane rocket ship ride right now where I remember kind of getting there's like maybe like three-quarters of a mile into the race, he kind of like flattens off a little bit before it pitches up again uh on the first loop. And I remember looking at the course, I'm like, all right, if I can just like hang on that first climb and then I can run that that like flatter section pretty fast and maybe try and make some make some room up there, and got to that flatter section, and just everyone around me was like absolutely sprinting. I was like, Well, we're not catching anyone here because we're all now running like sub-five-minute pace. You're like, damn, these boys are quick. Um so I don't know. Yeah, I'll I'll I if I'm back in New Hampshire, I'll totally do it. Um we'll have to we'll see. Uh it was just really fun again, and I think it was cool. Um yeah, it was just cool to see so many people out there. Yeah, people I hadn't seen in a really long time, and like uh the sport of trail running, like, you know, I mean, you know better than anyone, just like it's just absolutely outstanding right now. And so it's really fun just to see all these unbelievable runners showing up to Sun of Pete, New Hampshire and throwing down. It's it's it's neat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's crazy. What do you think of the sport? Like, especially as someone that you're both a participant, you're also you know, wrapped up in uh you know, a business that you know really pertains to a lot of trail runners and things like that. Like I mean, I feel like it's on a rocket ship to the moon right now. The sport is growing immensely. And then now, especially with you know, athletes like Cam and Anna on the schemo side going to the Olympics, like that also kind of helps get the name the word of the sport out as well. Um, what do you think? Do you think we'll be an Olympic sport in 15 years? Like, what's your what's your hot take or maybe prediction over the next few years as things start to grow?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I think from an Olympic perspective, it it it better be. Like the other Olympic sports that are now in uh in the Olympic Games, like trail running should absolutely be there in, you know, hopefully shorter than 15 years. But it's really, I mean, I don't know, it's like it's crazy. And I, you know, I actually just listened to your podcast with Tom Hooper and like the amount of money that is now coming into the sport from a prize, prize perspective, is I think gonna change the game, uh, both like obviously literally with just that money. But um what I hope is like the trail community and the trail racing scene is like seem to evolve really organically, and it seems like there's an awesome community, people show up, you know each other, and like yes, people race really, really hard, and it's super competitive. Uh, I just hope like money doesn't influence it in a negative way. Where like I think about like the influence of like road races and some of the prize purses there, like road culture and trail car trip culture are very, very different. Um, I love them both. I think like the road culture and track culture and and trail culture are all phenomenal, but there's like there is a little bit of a different attitude um in some areas, and I think the trail, the trail world is like um just feels a little bit more genuine in some areas, and I think people like are able to connect with each other and like build like friendships where not to say that doesn't happen in other other aspects of of a sport of running, but um yeah, we'll have to see. It'll be interesting to see how how this this changes things. And um I think it's great for the sport. I think it's it's probably gonna go through some growing pains, like everything does. Uh, but I I I look at people that are starting to emerge as like really great ambassadors for the sport of trail running, like the trail community. And I think of people like Cam and Ana and uh Dan Kurtz, and just like people that are like seemingly like they're kind of doing it their way, and I think that's really inspiring, right? Like they're not following this like cookie cutter training program, coach training group, sponsored athlete protocol where it's like they're out there having fun adventures, they're out there working really, really hard, they're telling cool stories, they're showing up these races and performing at the highest level, and they're just being good stewards of of the sport. And I think as long as you have that, that'll be the bedrock of it. And um the competition level will rise as like they're gonna foster that, like they're gonna build build that. Um so I don't know, it will be interesting. I think like this next year will be really, really interesting because it does seem like it's it's gonna change the it's gonna be a new chapter in some respects. Um so we'll see. I don't I'm not gonna be competing for for the prize money, that's for sure, but I'll be there just to have fun.
SPEAKER_01:It is wild, man. Like sorry. I was just gonna say it's wild because things have changed. I feel I feel like I mean, I've kind of been around the sport now, I don't know, five or six years. And I just feel like from last year to this year, things have changed like immensely. Like now we have Cam and Anna as Olympians. Now we have you know,$30,000 from men and women prize money for uh, you know, that's just for winning the Broken Arrow 23k. And then things roll down from there. And yeah, like we talked about with Tom, there's you know, there's serious prize money, you know,$10,000 to the winner of Sana Pee for what an hour and a half worth of work, something like that, maybe less. So yeah, it is crazy that the sport has grown so much in just the last 12 months and and where that goes, it's yeah, I don't know. It's interesting, but you very much to your point, it is a soul sport. Like I think, and I think the community is the best aspect of it. Like the people in the sport are what make the sport the re are the reason people stay. Like they find this community that seems to work and fit really well. Whereas I and I I came from a soccer background, but I did dabble on the roads before I started doing the trail life. And yeah, the communities are different. It's just a different, it's a very different type of sport. Um, so yeah, I think that sense of adventure and that sense of uh soul and community kind of just makes it different. And yeah, but but at the same time, like now we're g we're starting to see high octane performance, you know, like Anna on the 1500 is is a is uh like insane and like her abilities on both sides of the like whether it's on the roads now on the skis and on the trail, like it's kind of crazy to see these like insane athletes just kind of come over to the sport and kind of change what it means to run certain things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean that's an I I feel like I've started to hear more like I sort of hate like the aspects of oh, I'm a trail trail runner, I'm a road runner, I'm a track runner. Like to me, it's like if you're a runner, you're a runner, like you should be able to run on all surfaces. But I mean, I do know like some pro, you know, road runners are now starting to make their way into trail. Like um, I think Molly Seidel just won won a trail race, and Des is you know gonna throw down and some dirt races coming up here too. And um I again I just think I think that's awesome for the sport, and it's only gonna draw more people in, it's only gonna raise the level of competition, hopefully. And I I think like it's it's phenomenal with for the people that are involved with it now on a high level that really have an opportunity to make like a truly like a career out of it. Um and and that's amazing. Like that's like that's something that's been missing from I think the sport of running for so long. Um so it's awesome. It's just gonna be like that delicate balance of like how do you professionalize something but keep an okay organic and genuine and authentic culture um to it as well, which kind of you know what we talked about. I think like the the ambassadors and the champions of the sport will hopefully be able to navigate that and uh thinking of the people who who are doing it already have total confidence that it'll be an awesome, awesome space.
SPEAKER_01:That's true, that's true. I think it's a good stuff, good spot to uh we'll we'll put a pin in it for this time. Um and yeah, man, I really appreciate you coming on. It was a great conversation. Hopefully, I see you around the summer. I'm gonna be at I'll tell you after the fact where I'll be. But we'll we'll uh we'll we'll hopefully meet up this summer and maybe get together for a run. So I appreciate it, man.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. Keep keep me posted. If you're uh if you're in Jackson or Driggs or you know, coming up for this Sork series, I don't know. Is it's is the Target one end of August again?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, it's like August 29th this year or something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, that'd be sweet. I'll be there for that. Grab some runs and maybe milkshakes.
SPEAKER_01:Hell yeah, dude. Hell yeah. Well, I appreciate it, Matt. Dude, thank you so much for your time and uh looking forward to future conversations.
SPEAKER_00:Likewise, man. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, what'd you guys think? Oh man, I want to thank Matt so much for coming on the show. Uh, always great conversation, super appreciative of uh just some of the insight. Always love hearing more about his background and uh some of his athletic uh goals and achievements, um, as well as Momentus. To me, Momentus is a really interesting brand. Um, I always like learning more, especially about the inside mechanics of the way some of these larger brands operate, and especially in the supplementation space. It was really cool for Matt to kind of uh teach more on the NSF certified by sports, so get to learn more about that um and what the third-party testing and kind of how that works, especially as an athlete. I'm sure all of you guys take supplements of some kind, whether it's anything from vitamin D to a multivitamin, you're gonna want to know where that stuff comes from. So um, yeah, really good stuff there. Guys, the best way you can support Matt, give him a follow on Instagram. You can find him at Matt underscore chorn. That's Matt M A T T underscore chorn. It's gonna be linked in the show notes, so give him a follow there. He was also kind enough to pass along a momentous code for the Steep Stuff podcast listeners. That's right, 15% off use code. It's gonna be one word steep pod. Steep pod, that's right, 15% off a momentous. Um, guys, they have great stuff. I mean, I regularly order from them every month. I always do the vitamin D zinc. Um, I do that sleep stuff, the apigen epigenin, which is a word I need to get better at pronouncing. And then Matt also recently got me hooked on uh he sent me some of the protein. And dude, the way protein isolate uh in the cinnamon flavor, it that stuff is like crack. It's amazing. Um, big fan there. Definitely give that order, at least give it a try. Um, super good stuff. Like I said, code is gonna be steep pod, one word for 15% off. Use that. Um, get yourself a discount on your first order, and uh I hope you guys enjoy it. And if you have any questions about product, feel free to reach out to me. Um I like I said, I don't order everything, but I do I do order a lot, and I have I've this is not a sponsored show. Um, so this is just out of stuff that I like. So hope you guys enjoy this. I really appreciate you guys' uh supporting the pod. One last thing, if you have been enjoying it, give us a uh rating, five star review on Apple Spotify or YouTube, um, and give us hit the subscribe button on YouTube as well. Appreciate y'all. Thank you.
