The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Short Trail
The Steep Stuff Podcast
The Sub Stack, Short Trail News - Episode 1
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Big changes hit short trail running, and we’re here for all of it. We kick off The Substack with Rachel Tomajczyk to unpack the new Golden Trail World Series calendar, the late surge into Asia, and why a four-race-plus-final format forces athletes to rethink everything from training blocks to travel budgets. With no US stop on the GTWS schedule and Quebec Mega Trail standing alone in North America, the balance of power and opportunity shifts—especially for American athletes trying to build a season without burning out on flights.
We pull apart the strategy calls that matter now: whether to base in Asia for Japan, China, and a technical South Korea final or bounce back and forth and risk jet lag; when to favor course specificity over brand obligations; and how to use Broken Arrow’s massive platform even without GTWS points on offer. We also look at segment rankings—uphill, downhill, and flats—as a storytelling win that may widen gaps at the top without radically changing podiums. Safety gets a real upgrade too with the prologue removed from the final, a move we applaud after last year’s fatigue-fueled injuries.
Then we turn to the US National Skyrunning Series, with Whiteface, Beast of Big Creek, Ski Talk Scramble, and Kismet Cliff Run creating a steep, technical path on home soil. For athletes who want world-class competition minus transoceanic chaos, this is a timely alternative with real prize purses and accessible travel. Expect East Coast rock and root to reward different strengths than the smooth Euro burners, and watch for new names to break through.
If you’re mapping a 2024 season, this is the roadmap: pick your A-races, respect recovery, and let geography serve your goals. Subscribe, share with a trail friend, and leave a quick review to help more runners find the show. Got a question or a hot take on the calendar? Drop it our way and we might feature it next time.
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What's up everybody? Welcome to the Substack, your source for all things short trail news related. Co-hosted by Rachel Tomaichek, as well as myself. We are so excited to bring you guys episode one as we dive into all things golden trail world series related, including the calendar that dropped last week, as well as the newly minted U.S. National Sky Series calendar, which just dropped today, actually, which we're super excited to talk about as well. Really fun episode. We also dive right into the new ranking system from Golden Trail. We talk about the segment rankings, the lack there of a prologue, the lack there of a United States race for the first time uh since COVID, which is a uh a giant bummer for North American athletes. We talk about the addition of the Quebec Mega Trail to the uh series and how possibly athletes might be able to double up with that, as well as broken arrow. And then we talk about the Golden Trail entering the Asian market, um, as well as what it's gonna be like for North American athletes and really European athletes traveling over to Asia for a race in Japan, a race in China, and then finally the grand final that's gonna be in South Korea uh later on in uh, or sorry, early on in October. Um, really fun conversations as well around the U.S. National Sky Series calendar, which is gonna be comprised of the Whiteface Sky Race in July, the Beast of Big Creek, which is finally a United States, the only United States World Skyrunner Series race, um, with the addition also of the Ski Talk Scramble, as well as the Kismet Cliff Run, which is hosted by uh our friend, Mr. Tom Hooper. Um, yeah, great episode. Really enjoyed Rachel's commentary on this. We talk a lot about, we we put you in the shoes of the athletes. So if you are an athlete listening to this, um, maybe Golden Trail World Series Curious, maybe you're just a fan. Um, we have a little bit of something for everybody, as well as those athletes that might be on the cusp of just trying to decide whether or not they want to race in Europe this year, or maybe stick stateside. And uh now you have a national sky series calendar of races that you can choose from, both in the Pacific Northwest as well as the Northeast. And I've heard from others that there's gonna be some additional races added to that calendar, which is pretty dope as well. Um, yeah, I hope you guys enjoy this one. This has been a long time coming. I've been trying to put this together for the longest time. Um, really excited to finally bring it to you. The Substack, um, yeah, really fun mini-series. Be on the lookout. We're gonna drop one of these probably once a month outside of the summer, and then during the summer, maybe twice a month. We're gonna be following the news cycle. So anything you guys want to know, if you have audience questions, shoot them to us. Um, everything is gonna be around um the discussion around different races, uh, new races that pop up, different racing calendars. Um, we're gonna be talking about the athletes themselves with star building. We'll talk about performances, course records, um, and of course, uh free agency, really anything in the news cycle around the races or around the athletes and the races themselves in the sport. So lots of cool stuff that Rachel and I are gonna dig into. Um, we're super excited to have you guys along for the ride. Thank you for tuning in. So, without further ado, episode one of the Substack. All right, Rachel Temaichek, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going?
SPEAKER_00:Thanks. Yeah, it's good. I'm super excited to be on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Excited to have you. We got some, we got a lot to talk about today. I would say probably first and foremost, um, because I don't want to bury the lead too much. We got it some exciting news uh to roll out to the audience that we are gonna be launching a uh a new, I guess you could call it podcast, you could call it a show, a new show that we're gonna call the Substack, and you are gonna be the co-host of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm super excited. Yeah. We get to talk all things sub Ultra Trail Running, probably every month or so, whenever there's updates or we want to talk about something, which now we have pretty exciting updates since some schedules have dropped. So yeah, I'm excited to get into it.
SPEAKER_01:I know. Oh my gosh. We've got Golden Trail, not just the schedule finally came out, but we've got new news on this ranking system, how they have segment rankings, um, yeah, big news on them getting rid of the prologue. And then the United States is also gonna have a Skyrunning National series. Your uh key sponsor, Merrill, is gonna be um putting it on, which is pretty cool. So then we'll have a national uh listing of Skyrunner races, which is so crazy. Um, first thing is I do want to talk to the audience about this uh the substack that we're gonna be putting on, all kinds of news, anything and everything surrounding Short Trail that's news based, whether it's exciting drops like calendars, free agency moves, discussions about pretty much anything and everything that's gonna be in the news cycle. We're gonna be talking about. And I'm so excited to Rachel to have you on as our co-host because you know, your background, and I'll in a second I'll let you take it away on giving the audience some more of your background. But you're a first ballot hall of famer in the sport. You're one of the greatest to ever do it. You've done so much in the sport, and you've raced so many of these races that we're gonna be talking about. So I think it's gonna be amazing just to have your your uh you know, your background and uh your commentary, which is gonna be super fun.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, I'm very, very excited. And yeah, I love talking about this stuff. So it'll be fun to kind of I've raced a lot of them, so it'll be fun kind of talking about it and being on the other side of doing that too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, the commentary stuff is dope. You know what? I was thinking about this the other day. I was in a conversation with Travis Macy, who uh runs the Schemo Gold podcast. Oh yeah. And he he and I got into it talking about like Olympic commentary. Because he asked me, he's like, Do you guys ever want to? He's like, What are your thoughts on like Olympic commentary? Because now that Schemo's in the Olympics, he got to try out for it. Yeah. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool because this opens up this world uh to all these former athletes, like you know, and all these athletes that are doing the sport right now, to when it does become an Olympic sport, if if you know, who knows how things work out, but that'll probably be 20, 15, whoever knows how long we are now for opportunities for athletes to be commentary hosts for the Olympics and for these big things as the sport grows, which I think is kind of fun.
SPEAKER_00:Totally. Yeah, it's been really cool seeing Kara Goucher and some of the pros when I was running when I was little, um, starting to do commentary for track and things like that. Like it's really fun just to like hear their insight. And um, it's fun, yeah, just listening to them comment on everything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's cool. It's cool stuff. Uh, maybe before we get started talking about Golden Trail, maybe give the audience give me like like like the five-minute elevator pitch. Talk about college, uh, talk about high school with running and talk about how you found the trails.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So um I started running when I was pretty young. Um, I knew that I loved running since elementary school, but I wasn't really competitive or um really competing until middle school track. And then I started training really once I got into high school. So um I always knew that I loved running, but I kind of had a slower start into it and was really more serious in high school and won a couple state titles in Texas when I was in high school. And I won Nike Cross Nationals and was second at Foot Locker in cross country. And so that was super fun. Always loved cross-country. Track was really fun too, but I always loved like being in cross country and kind of like the not just running flat and in circles. And then I went on to college and ran at Baylor and did steeplechase there. So kind of continuing on that trend of not just flat track running, but adding something, some other element in there. Um, I always loved cross-country as well in college. So I was a six-time All-American in college, and then that kind of opened the door for opportunities to come for running professionally after college. So I was on a team called Furman Elite for a little while that was based in South Carolina, and I ran Steel Chase and the 10K out there, and then was in Flagstaff for a little bit and still running on the road and trails. Um, and then eventually moved out to Virginia, and that's kind of where I discovered the trails more. Um, I was kind of feeling burned out a little bit on the track, and some of my friends, like Grayson Murphy and Courtney Coppinger, that I had raced steeple with in college and as a pro also, had kind of started transitioning over to the trail and had done really well and loved it. And they were some of my good friends, and so it was kind of fun. Um, I was like, maybe I could be good at this. Let's try it out. And I tried it and loved it. And since then, I've been on two USA world teams in the classic and the uphill distance in both of them. I went to Thailand for the World Championships a few years ago and then Innsbruck a couple years ago. Um, got to represent the US there. I've done the Golden Trail World Series for a few years. Um, my best finish there is 11th in the overall series. So yeah, it's been super fun. I just love the freedom that the trails bring. And um, yeah, it's been it's been a great transition from racing on the roads and track to over to trails.
SPEAKER_01:Well, amazing. And we're so excited to welcome you here. This is gonna be such a fun show. And uh, like I said, I can't wait to have your expert commentary and just to hear um, you know, so many different unique insights uh that you know, I feel like I'm much more North American-based with a lot of the racing and training that I do. You compete all over the world. So to have that background and that knowledge level to bring into the podcast, I think is just so exciting. So thanks.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Yeah, and also this year I'm pregnant, so I'm very excited about that. But I'm taking a little bit of a step back from racing this year. I'll get back into it next year, but I'm excited to do this podcast and really stay connected to the racing world since I won't be racing at that elite level this year. But that's really exciting in life, also. But yeah, very excited to stay connected to racing through this.
SPEAKER_01:Giant, congratulations. Thanks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we're stoked.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's gonna be a good year. Um let's let's uh let's transition and let's let's talk golden trail. So we finally got a calendar. Uh yes, finally. It's been a long time coming. I know we waited up until I know usually like I feel like we were talking about this the other day. It was like usually December.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, mid-December or something. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What are your what are your initial reactions and and thoughts on the calendar? Like is I obviously there's there's I mean, pretty outstanding that we don't have a race in the United States, which is wild, and we'll talk about that. But just initial thoughts, what what kind of strikes like pops out to you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's going to be a different year, I think, for Golden Trail series. I think that it's really exciting in some ways, and I think in some ways it's hard for some athletes, especially US athletes maybe, and maybe a challenge. Um, but I really love the races that they're doing. I've done almost all of them. I think there's only one plus the final that I haven't gotten to race, and all the races are super fun. Golden Trail Series does a great job of putting on really epic races and really amazing places. And so yeah, excited for that schedule. Um, but yeah, I think it's going to be an interesting year, especially with not having a race in the US. And then the races in Asia, instead of being at the beginning of the season now, they're at the end of the season, and the final is also in Asia for the first time ever. I think this is the first time that it hasn't been in Europe ever. So yeah, there's definitely a lot of changes within the Golden Trail World Series this year. Um, but yeah, I think it'll be an exciting year.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, definitely, definitely. I've got a lot of questions around some of the Asian races. Like I'd say first and foremost, I don't think this even just pertains to American athletes, but just athletes in general, whether you're from Europe, anywhere that's not really on that side of the world.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, the final and then Miyoko Trail and Great Wall are all kind of very like, for instance, like um Miyoko Trail and Great Wall are relatively close as far as the end of September, but the final and Muji Trail in South Korea is like another month out almost. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess if I'm like, do you stay? Do you stay? Do you go? Uh I know. What do you do?
SPEAKER_00:Well, and that's the problem that I'm thinking of where I'm like, yeah, they're doing some really exciting things, but also this is really, really hard for some athletes to plan, unless you live over in Asia, which a lot of Golden Trail series athletes haven't or don't live in Asia or haven't in the past. So maybe this will kind of bring more Asian athletes into the mix in Golden Trail series, which would be really, really exciting. But I do think for European uh athletes, anyone over in the Americas, North and South America, it's going to be really, really difficult to plan that end of the season because um what do you do? Do you stay over in Asia for two months? And maybe that is a good move if you can financially afford it and be there. I think either way, it's kind of hard to like financially afford that and be able to be kind of out of your element and out of your normal pace of life and just in a new place and a place that's very, very different from the US or Europe for a couple months. Or do you make the trek of going back and forth, which is also really hard on your body and something that you definitely need to take into account? So yeah, it'll be interesting seeing what athletes end up doing. But I also think you're almost forced to do one of those last two Asian races with the way that the ranking system is if you're trying to go for the most points. So yeah, I think that's going to be an issue that a lot of athletes kind of have to figure out this year.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I it I feel like this is particularly difficult for American athletes. We no longer have broken arrow in the fray. They um moved on to go with a different title sponsor this year, so they won't be a part of the Golden Trail series. There's also no longer a race in Mexico, so the only North American race is going to be Quebec Mega Trail. So if you're in the Mountain West, that's not an easy, that's not a close one. I mean, it's the closest one. Right. It's not exactly an easy thing to get to. No. Now, I know you train and you train often with a lot of some of the biggest names in Golden Trail. Um, you know, Lauren Gregory, uh, you know, Sarah Carter, Nicholas Circo. I know you're in that group of people that train together. What is the um, and you don't have to give away any inside baseball, but what is what are the athletes thinking right now? I I guess that's quite kind of what I'm trying to get an idea of. Like, what do you think people will wind up doing? Um people stay or go? Do you think it's gonna be a lesser year of Americans on that scene and athletes are gonna try and maybe go a different route uh instead of primarily Golden Trail for this year?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I think the general thought up until now was where the heck is this schedule? Because no one knew until now. And so I think that a lot of athletes kind of started planning their season because other races had dropped and their sponsors are asking them, hey, where are you racing at this year? And some of their sponsors started sponsoring races that are in the US and kind of like either putting pressure on those athletes to be at those races and to kind of like start planning their race schedule, or the athletes were just excited that their sponsor is sponsoring a race here. So they put it on their calendar. So I think that because the schedule was released so late and a lot of athletes kind of had started planning their schedule already, it might and just there's not as much opportunity for athletes to race within the US. I think it might be a blow for US athletes running in the Golden Trail series this year.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's so interesting too, because I mean, this is kind of a two-parter and maybe a somewhat loaded question, but I I used to not think Broken Arrow had the size and the ability to stand alone, but uh, it's almost to the point now, like with all that investment that they have from ACG and the size of that race in North America now. I mean, they're I want to say the second largest racing I think it is. It's the second largest set of races, like outside of the Cirque series, but that's kind of yeah, because Cirque series is all over the United States. But outside of the rut, it's the largest racing system in the country now. Yeah. And I think it it can survive on its own. It doesn't need it, it's its own, it's its own thing, and it doesn't need a golden trail or a Skyrunner series or something like that for it to prop it up, which is unique. So that begs the question if I'm a let's say I'm a North American athlete, right? And I could go do, and this is a kind of a two-parter, but like I I could go to Broken Arrow and let's say I'll go race the 46K or let's say I'll do the 23K and I get 40th, right? Right. Or I could go race Great Wall and maybe get myself in the top 15 or top 10, you know, because of the dilation or the dilution of um athletes all wanting to go to one thing versus the other, uh, or whatever that weekend is. What do you think that I mean, what's your take on that? Do you think more athletes will try to do one versus the other, depending on like calendar location and how that works? Or like what do you kind of think about that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think potentially, I think, like you said, broken arrow can just stand alone now. Even I think it sells out immediately, even in the general public. That those uh race spots just sell out so, so quickly. And um, pros are wanting to go to those races as well and do the ascent in uh 23k, 46k. So yeah, broken arrow can definitely stand alone. And it's also the weekend right before Western State. So I think that a lot of sponsors are taking advantage of that too, because you have Broken Arrow, TrailCon, and then Western State. So all the sponsors go to TrailCon. The athletes either race Western states or broken arrow, and everyone kind of meets there. So I do think it is a standalone race now. But yeah, that is an interesting question of will athletes be going over to do some of the European races that are Golden Trail Series races at that point, or are they gonna stick with Broken Arrow, especially if they may not be in contention for prize money? Um, I think it could be smart to do Golden Trail series at that point because um it is going to, I don't know if water down the field is a good way to say it, because I think that all of those races are going to be pretty competitive, but um, I think it'll definitely split people up for sure.
SPEAKER_01:It's interesting. I mean, I I was very surprised to see El Housine's, because it's not a Golden Trail series race. He's still going to Broken Arrow this year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Nanki Brinkman is another one. I I would imagine with her ACG uh sponsorship, there's an there's incentive to be there. Um, but Ninki Breakman, um, Baylor Kowalzik, a lot of folks that we would normally see on the circuit internationally uh will be more at Broken Arrow this year versus, I don't know, whatever that same weekend would be. I guess is it Quebec Mega Trail? That's a similar weekend.
SPEAKER_00:Um I don't know if it's exactly, I think it does fall on a weekend where it isn't either like it's not a golden trail series race weekend. Like maybe the next weekend is Quebec Mega Trail. So I'm kind of wondering if El Zine or people like that would come over, do Broken Arrow, and then do Quebec Mega Trail, because they've done that in the past where they come over for like Pikes Peak and then Mammoth or Headlands and then Mammoth. I don't know. I have to check the dates on that, or maybe you just did.
SPEAKER_01:But I I I went for it in my phone, but it's just the listing. It's not that I would imagine it's one week. My guess is you're right. It would be one and then the week after. Yeah. As opposed to having them on. I don't think they would do it on the same weekend, but I don't know. But uh yeah, it's gonna be interesting.
SPEAKER_00:And it is just a lot of racing if you do all of the Golden Trail series races, like if you do Pitts Alpine and then you do Broken Arrow and then you do Quebec Mega Trail, like one after the other after the other. That's a really, really stacked schedule and a lot of traveling. Um, Broken Arrow is on the West Coast, and then Quebec Mega Trail is all the way on the east coast. So um it's so much travel in between. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Sponsors better break out the checkbooks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01:For some of the travel. Um I do have one question kind of related, kind of unrelated. I just found this interesting last year where there was Put Alpin Glacier and then series and all was within a week, week and a half of one another. That's an interesting double. Uh because one, this is such a technical course, very different, muddy. Um, obviously, we saw the videos last year. You could beat it at it. Um, just a very, two very different things. What did you think of that double back to back with that in series and all? Would you recommend that for athletes? Or do you think maybe just focus on series and all or focus on one versus the other?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think it was very efficient to do both because um, and for me, I was thinking I'm going to get more points at uh Pitts Alpine than I will at series and all, but I do just want to try to better my time at series and all. Like I thought that that was a fun challenge. So um I kind of enjoyed the back-to-back. I don't know if you are trying to target one race over the other. Um, you definitely want to make sure that your most important race is the first race that you do, and then the other one is maybe a B race, or I don't know. It's hard to say series and all was a B race for me because I was really trying to do well. But I just didn't think that I would get the points that I would get at um Pitts Alpine at series and all. But I also know athletes that didn't do Pitts Alpine. And only focused on series and all. So yeah, I think you just have to know what your goals are for that year and then kind of like play to your strengths.
SPEAKER_01:The double. All right, let's in that topic or in that thread, let's talk about the new ranking system. I found it to be very interesting. Huge change from previous years. Yeah. Maybe talk about some of these differences that uh have popped up this year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I think one of the biggest differences is that instead of ranking or um combining three races plus the final for your points, it's four races plus the final for your points. So you do have to race in four races and the final to get that maximum amount of points for the year, which they tried to do this two years ago. And there is a race in Poland that got started and then stopped mid-race. And so, um, because of weather, there was a huge thunderstorm during it. And that year they were also trying to do a four-race system where your best four races counted. Um, but since that race basically got rained out, they decided to just go back to three um races for that year. So this is the first year that if it goes through, that it would actually work out and there would be four races counted toward your score. So that's really interesting because um it kind of makes it so that you have to focus on golden trail series basically for your whole season. Um you really, really have to make it your focus because those are, you know, two to three hour races, sometimes longer if you're doing Zagama or races that are long like that. So um, yeah, you really have to kind of make it your focus for the season.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think, and this adds to a really interesting part where Golden Trail could go one way or the other. They could go the way of what they're going, where your top four races will count, and you're very, you're gonna have to be, as an athlete, very committed to their season. It's gonna be hard for them because if you go the other way where it's only three races or less that would count for the final, that opens you up to do other things. Yeah. You know, in a in a I guess in a racing environment where a lot of these athletes are also doing the UTMB races, there's a lot of like very low-hanging fruit to go do a lot of the UTMB 50k races that has they're significantly more diluted, if you will, as far as competition goes, um, versus the golden trail races, it it less it lessens the ability to mix things up. So I wonder if this year um if we'll see athletes just very much so stick to the stick to uh Golden Trail and not really branch out like they had done in the past, or maybe only branch out on several occasions where they'll do something like that series series and all double with a few weeks later go do OCC. Things like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, potentially. Or maybe some athletes are interested in doing some of the Golden Trail series races, but they're not going to try to do the full series. Um yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see what people's schedules end up looking like.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Or even on that thread, does the final even matter anymore? Like if you're if you're an American athlete or if you're really any any athlete across the world, right? And you want to do hit the big ones like Zagama and series and all, uh, you know, maybe throw in there something in North America, like, you know, Quebec Mega Trail. Do you even want to go to create a race the final? I mean, I know a lot of people do, but is something like an OCC more attractive or something else? I don't know. Like it's gonna be very interesting. Because this is the year I think we'll find that out. Like, does the final actually matter just because it's who's gonna stay and who's even who's gonna go?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, something with the final, if you are trying to do the golden trail series, is if you don't complete the final, then your name gets pulled. So you don't end up finishing this series. Maybe you knew that, but um yeah, I think yeah, so you you can't like do the series or like be on the podium if you don't end up doing the final. Um, so yeah, I think it kind of forces like you have to go to the final to finish the series. And um I guess it's a better question of will athletes do all four of the races that they would need to do. I think like anyone that's getting top five will have to. But um, yeah, I think it's an interesting thing. Like, will people end up doing that or will they kind of just stop at three?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Do you think this new segment ranking is gonna catch? Like, do you think this will be an attractive thing for athletes?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Okay, my take on the segment is that I think it's great to highlight athletes, but I don't know how much of a difference it's going to make in the final scores because I think it's really, really cool to see who's the best uphill athlete, who's the best downhill athlete. They kind of did this each race toward the end of the season in 2025. Golden Trail series did where they said this is a segment and it didn't count for points or anything, but they kind of just like put it on social media who the top 10 in the uphill segment or downhill or flat segment were. And it was like cool to see. Um, I think the points will help highlight those athletes that are the top ones in each segment even better. But honestly, the top people from last year in those segments are the people that are winning the races. Like if you have the best uphill segment, you're probably gonna be top five anyway. Same if you have the best downhill segment, you're probably up in the top five anyway. So I think that it's just going to make it so that the top five are like strung out farther away from the rest of the um like top 10. So I think that maybe it'll create that gap. I think it'll be interesting to see if it makes if it affects the top five at all and if there's place changes um between all of them. But I think that it's um more fun just to like see the athletes being highlighted through these different segments. I don't know if it'll make that big of a difference with points, but what do you think?
SPEAKER_01:Do you well here's my thought on it is like, is it more fan service? Like, is this more trying to create more discussion around the fan base and get the fans excited for oh, Remy, you know, split El Housin by like a minute on this climb. Or seen split Remy by two minutes on the descent or you know, something like that. Um, I don't know. I I think it's a 50-50. I think it's very much just like you said, in the sense where um, yeah, if you're doing if you're performing well at a segment, like whether it's a climb or any race, if you're performing well, you're generally in the top five of that segment anyway. Right. And then on top of that, I think the the fan service um for all of us as fans, whether we're you know competing or whether we're just paying attention as fans or the fans in general, like I think it just creates more of this um environment, more buzz around who's doing what. And you know, and uh they can market that as well. Oh, yeah. You know, like there's you could create a million reels or whatever based off of uh, you know, I don't know, whoever's doing the best on that segment.
SPEAKER_00:And oh yeah, and they definitely will. Yeah, they're great at marketing. So that part will be really fun. But I think it'll be more fun than it matters for ranking points. Yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Uh, what do you think of the prologue or the lack thereof a prologue this year? You think it's a net positive?
SPEAKER_00:I well, as an athlete for sure, yes, net positive. This year, usually they do um where you do the prologue and then you have a rest day and then you do the final. Um, but this year, the women did not have a rest day in between the prologue and the final, and the men did. And uh, so I definitely think that was a disadvantage with the women, even though everyone, every woman still had to race that way. So it was fair in that sense. But I think it just made it so that there were a lot of injuries in the women's field. A lot of people twisted ankles, a lot of people had really bad falls, a lot of people dropped from the race. Um, and I think it might have been because you went so hard the day before on the prologue, and then you try to come back and race the next day, and you're not on top of your game. And that's a really technical course. And so I think that it kind of made for a lot of injuries or the opportunity for a lot more injuries. So I'm kind of excited just to see what a final looks like with everyone racing fresh. Um, I think it's a little bit safer for the athletes, and I think it's a little bit more fun to race fresh and just see what everyone can do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, it's it's so interesting to me. I don't know. I've seen they've done so many different years in the past, like things in the past. Like it was during the COVID year when they did the um it was like a stage race. Yeah, so really neat kind of final. Um, obviously the prologue's been reintroduced or introduced in the last few years. And I thought the same thing. Like I just felt like, all right, this is just gonna bang people up. It's gonna be, is it really even worth it for the pointage? You know, like last year's, I feel like was a straight up mountain classic. Like it was like what, three or four miles with like 10,000 feet. Yeah, yeah. Straight up, straight down. So you get destroyed on that. I don't know. I I think it's a net positive to get rid of it, in my opinion, but I they could they could definitely always be, you know, you could be more creative with uh, you know, with it and keep people fresh for just one race, or do invite people out to like some island and just throw down for like five or six days.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So kind of fun.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think when they did that format, I didn't compete in the Golden Trail series that year. And I want to say that you didn't have to do every stage of the race if you didn't want to, but um, I think that it helped you to. I think maybe they took the top like three of your five days or something like that. So I don't know. I think that uh it was kind of like every athlete gets to choose their own adventure on which days they race. Um, but yeah, that was an interesting year. But I am excited. I think they are saying that the final is the most technical course of the season, which Ledro Sky Race was pretty technical of a final last year, and Ledro Sky Race is in the series this year. So to have something more technical than that will be um definitely pretty wild. So I think that it's just safe for the athletes to be able to race on fresh legs.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What do you think? This is something I meant to mention before when you kind of touched on it. Uh I had notes to talk about it, was the push for Golden Trail to get into the Asian market. It seems like, I mean, now with a race in Japan, a race in China, and a race in South Korea, like this is um, there's obviously a massive fan base there, and there's a lot of opportunity for capture uh from an audience perspective, especially as I know Greg and Golden Trail is very big on they they want to be, I guess, I don't know, the the poster child for when this does become an Olympic sport. And I think that makes all the sense in the world. But what do you think about them trying to get into the Asian market? And it it seems very much so like they've said, all right, well, North America is over here and we're just gonna go over here and play.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I love it. I think it's great. I think there's a lot of um European athletes, a lot of US and um American athletes. And then I think there's a good amount of um African athletes as well in the series. And so I would love to see them break into that uh Asian market and hopefully have even more Asian athletes racing. I know Miao Yao has done really well. Um, Takako Takamura has done really, really well. And so those are some of the top Asian athletes that have been in the Golden Trail World Series, um, which is exciting. But hopefully we get even more athletes showing up that are um representing Asian countries. I think that would be really fun. Um I it is hard to travel over there for US, European, African athletes, but I also think from the other side, it's really hard for Asian athletes to travel over to the US or to Europe. So it kind of goes both ways, and maybe this makes it just more well-rounded for the world in general.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I agree. I think it's it's totally fair in the sense where there's really strong representation from so many unique cultures, and it just, I don't know, it's a world sport, you know. And I think you get to see as the athlete, you get to go see so many different places and do so many different things. So I think it it it's it truly is now the uh like a global thing, which is cool. Totally got full full audience capture of you know the the Asian market is huge. Yeah, they sell a ton of shoes over there. So it makes sense. Yeah, and hopefully we can you know we can uh get the podcast hype up for that. There we go.
SPEAKER_00:And I think also if we are trying to make it an Olympic sport, it needs to be a sport that's known around the world, and we need the Asian countries to be in on it as well. So I think that the more hype that we can get uh uh for it around the world, the better, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I couldn't agree more. One of the things I wanted to bring up to you, and you kind of you and I are talked about this in text was um uh like the Golden Trail will ask athletes questions. Like they want to know. And it seems to me like when they ask you guys stuff, like they really do listen to feedback. Like I thought it was pretty cool that they got rid of the prologue this year, that they've changed certain things and they're willing to to bend in chains to accommodate athletes, whether for better or for worse, in some ways worse, right? But like it seems like they do listen to the athletes, though.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. Yeah, I would definitely say that they sent out this whole survey to the athletes um after the final, just talking about like give us feedback from this year. And then they put out a ton of different ideas. Um, some that they're implementing this year, and then other things that they talked about or like asked if we would want, and maybe the athletes voted them down, or maybe they just decided that they didn't want to do them. But I think that they really, really do take athlete consideration into it. Even a couple of years ago, there were some things that we had this meeting right before Mammoth Trail Fest, and they kind of threw out a bunch of things at us for the next year and got a pretty bad response from the athletes and then kind of like backtracked and decided to keep doing kind of what they had been doing and kind of accommodate to the athletes. So I do think that they listen well to athletes and um they they give great support to athletes too. Um, if you're trying to um if you need accommodation there and you're trying to travel there, then I feel like they do give really good support for athletes there and they just make it really fun too. Like it's a great cultural experience to go. Whenever I've gone over to China or to Japan, we always kind of do something um that kind of helps us understand the culture there. And um, yeah, we just get to do some fun things around the culture of wherever we are, which is which is great. And you learn a lot. And yeah, you're definitely like ingrained kind of into the culture while you're over there.
SPEAKER_01:That's so cool. Yeah, I mean it helps you grow as a as an athlete, but also as a person, which I think is really, really cool. For sure. Um, okay. Let's shift gears off a golden trail. I do want to, at some point in time, we'll save it for a few future episodes when we talk prize money and stuff like that and anti-doping. There's stuff I want to get into with them. But for the sake of time, I do want to talk about the U.S. National Uh Sky Series calendar that just dropped. So kind of crazy, uh, but really amazing news. I feel like I accidentally leaked this. Uh, I'm not gonna apologize for it, but I I do did actually accidentally leak this like three weeks ago or four, oh probably around Christmas, uh, that this was gonna happen. They got all upset with me, but now we know it's official. This is actually gonna happen. Whiteface Sky Race, Beast of Big Creek, Ski Talk Scramble, and Tom Hooper's Kismet Cliff Run is gonna be uh part of a four and possibly more uh race series that's gonna be a U.S. national sky series calendar. My question to you is uh, with I guess with Golden Trail not having representation in the United States this year, this is a great opportunity for a racing series like the Skyrunner to come into the United States and and kind of grow a presence. What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. It's huge. I think that um sky races haven't been as popular as some of the other races, whether it's Broken Arrow or uh like Golden Trail series races or something, anything that's not marketed as a sky race. I feel like sky racing has kind of been a little bit beh behind on or just not as watched and seen. And so I think that this really brings eyes, at least um from the American market, on to sky racing, which is really exciting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. And some of the races, I mean, you've done, you've competed at Whiteface, I feel like in the past, right? For a US uh I guess a mountain running championship.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was, I think uh maybe four, three years ago or something like that. It was uh it was the US National Championships. So yeah, that one was a really fun one. It's really, really, really steep. Um, but yeah, really fun race, which is what sky racing is. It's just a lot more steep, a lot more technical. I mean, Golden Trail series definitely does some technical racing, but um, some of their courses are pretty smooth too, and you can get running fast on them. But skyrunning, I think, is a lot more technical, um, really steep and um a little bit longer races too. I feel like the Golden Trail series are usually two to three hour races, and then skyrunning can be more like three to five hour races.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, the ski talk scramble race is like a 37k, the one that's in Alaska. Yeah, it's pretty. I mean, that could be I mean, that has potential to be a very long race. I mean, we'll see what happens, especially with the technicality of Alaska. It's interesting. Like I find I find skyrunning in the United States to be interesting because the only bad person or people or race series that's really been able to pull it off has been more or less like Julian with the Cirque series. Yeah. They've been able to get like a uh it's more mountain classic, but still you they can get you on ridges, they can get you on tops of peaks and things like that in the lower 48, which is traditionally difficult because it's really hard. Yeah, the permitting issues. So this will be yeah, this will be interesting to see. Uh, plus we also have Beast of Big Creek, which is also gonna be a stop in the world sky runner.
SPEAKER_00:It is. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. I think that's gonna be really fun and hopefully a really competitive race here in the U.S. And um, yeah, part of the national series, part of the world series. So I think there'll be a lot of eyes on that race, which will be really cool.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Um I'm curious to see what happens with prize money. They haven't announced anything with prize money yet, except for Kismet. If I'm not mistaken, I think Kismet Cliff, which is, I mean, if if folks don't have anything on their end of September calendar, that's the I think that's the most accessible of the four to get to, in my opinion, because you could easy flight into Boston. It's an hour drive north, and you stay in this cute little town of North Conway, New Hampshire. Super cool. It's Tom Hooper's race, so you know it's gonna be a party, it's gonna be a great time. Yes. Um, and it's like I said, it's the most accessible, and I think it's like a$20 or$30,000 prize purse. Something told me, I should have known this. Sorry, Tom.
unknown:But yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, honestly, anything with Tom Hoover's name on it, go do those races. Those are some of the best races that I've done. And he just brings so much excitement and hype to the races and really, really is diligent and works hard to make them excellent races. So yeah, I think that one's gonna be a really fun one for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Big time, big time. Yeah, so it's gonna be interested. I did talk to uh I had the Flagstaff Sky Peaks folks on there. Yeah. Um, and they said they're in the process of working out details now to potentially do in the series. So maybe they'll be a member of the series as well. And I think there's other races that are interested.
SPEAKER_00:So for this year or uh future years. Wow, okay. Cool.
SPEAKER_01:So it's it's possible that this will be a five, maybe six uh you know, race series by the time it's all said and done, by the time we get to the summer. So I think it's great. I think it's cool because you know, I mean, your Dan Kurtz of the world and your Remy LaRuz of the world that are, you know, geographically more northeast athletes. Um you have options. You have two or three races in the northeast to go do. Whiteface is not easy to get to. I know it's in the Adirondack. So I guess you fly into Burlington, I guess, and drive. I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I can't even remember where I flew into. I know there were a couple of races that I did back to back um those weekends. So um, yeah, that was kind of fun to kind of pair some of the races that were out on the East Coast. And East Coast running is very, very fun. I think it's a lot different than West Coast, but still beautiful out there, just like very different terrain. But um, yeah, I would be excited to see if Dan Kurtz hops in some of these because he's so good at technical running. And so yeah, I think he could crush these. And he's out on the East Coast, so he can train in these mountains.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, I see, I see a lot of athletes. I mean, we're gonna see where people do, but I think these might actually be quite popular this year with uh, you know, instead of having I know that everybody will make their trips to Europe, obviously, and all over, but you know, with opportunities to race now in the United States, like big actual like series level races, like there's there's up we have options now. I think that's really cool.
SPEAKER_00:I think it is cool. And I think also it just creates more opportunities for people wanting to get into the sport too. You know, um, I think now we have Cirque series, we have the Skyrunner World Series all here coming to the US. And so I think that that just creates more opportunities for people to try out new races, um, even Even if they're not sponsored and they're wanting to get into trails, because it is really hard to spend a lot of money if you're not sponsored to get over to Europe. Um, and sometimes it's impossible to do that and to kind of break into some of those big races. But I think that this just gives people opportunities to do really, really high caliber races with great competition right here in the US in our backyard.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's only gonna the talent level is only gonna grow. It is so crazy how many people that I've just like either haven't on the podcast or just met and gotten acquainted with over the last year that are D1 athletes like transitioning into the trails.
SPEAKER_00:Like it's it's wild. Yeah, it's very exciting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So yeah, it's crazy. So I think it's a good place to put it. Put a pin in it. Do you anything you think we missed or you think we're uh we covered it all?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't think so. I think there's a couple other rules or things that Golden Trail series has released, but we can definitely talk about those in a different episode. And you alluded to some of them with the drug testing and things like that. So um, yeah, I think we can talk about that in a future episode. But um, yeah, I'm I'm really excited for this season. I think it'll be a good one and lots of opportunities to hop in some great races here and in Europe and Asia too. So yeah, it'll be a fun season.
SPEAKER_01:Big time, big time. No, I think this was a great part one. Um, yeah, I guess like February, probably end of once we get the first our Skyrunner race uh first results. There we have some some other things to go into. We'll also have probably big Alta results, Gorge results will come up as well. So there'll be plenty of things to talk about, and Olympic results as Sam and Ana will be competing at the end.
SPEAKER_00:I know, I'm so excited for that. I've been following them on um Instagram and just seeing everything that they're posting, and yeah, I'm so hyped for them.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't see them on I was I mean, I was glued to the television. I was like looking.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was too. I didn't see them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I did see Lara Hamilton.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you did? Okay, I missed her too. Yeah, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_01:But I did not see uh I didn't see Camarana. Okay. We will I guess we'll see them. We'll see them at the NFL.
SPEAKER_00:We will see them, yeah, they'll be there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that'll be. Rachel, thank you, thank you so much. I'm so excited to have you as a co-host for uh the Substack. And folks can tune into this, it's gonna be on uh the Steepstuff, normal Steepstuff podcast channel, and as it grows, uh the plan is to spin it off onto its own channel and it's gonna be its own living thing and super fun. So there we go. Awesome. Thanks for listening, everyone. Yeah, thank you guys. Alright, we're good. Um I'm gonna I'm gonna do some editing on the actual related. What'd you guys think? Oh man, really cool first episode of the Substack. So excited to bring you guys the news. Um I want to say thank you so much first and foremost to Rachel to MyCek, our co-host. So excited that she's gonna be joining us as our co-host for this series. Um, cannot wait to see all the things that we're gonna do in the future and lots of big plans to uh spin this off into its own podcast as it continues to gain an audience and grow, which is really cool. Um, Rachel's an amazing co-host, brings, I mean, first ballot hall of famer, brings so much experience having raced and competed at the highest level in the Golden Trail World Series. So having her expert analysis and commentary is just going to be so important for you know, just bringing you guys value so you can understand and put yourself in the shoes of these amazing athletes doing these incredible things. Um, so much uh thank so much thanks to Rachel. Guys, if you enjoyed this first episode, hop on YouTube, hit the subscribe button, as well as Apple, Spotify, wherever you consume your podcast, hit that five-star rating and review. Um, let's let's get the hype train rolling on the Substack. Uh yeah, get the excitement going. And very last but not least, if you are a brand and happen to be interested and have a little budget, I picked a great time to roll this out uh as far as the calendar year goes. But if you're a brand that has a little budget, interested in throwing some backing, we are looking for a title sponsor right now for the Substack. So um Nutrition brand will be cool. Um open to anything, open to conversations. Please reach out to Trailhead Athlete Management if you uh are uh you know, might have some interest or reach out to me directly. So appreciate you all. Thanks for tuning in. Lots of good stuff on the horizon. Um, we are gonna have episode two probably ready to go at the end of February, once we get the first Skyrunner uh racing series. I can't believe February is the first Skyrunner race, but yeah, once we get the first uh results from the Skyrunner races, we're gonna have some conversations to talk about, as well as all things around Big Alta. We're gonna have Black Canyon results to discuss as far as that 50k goes, which is super stacked. And then very last but not least, it'll be right around the time Cam and Ana, uh our friends, will be competing in the schemo discipline of the Olympics, both in the sprint and mixed relay, and we're wishing them the best of luck. So we'll have results to break down about that as well. So, guys, thanks for tuning in. Have a great rest of your week. Thanks so much.
