The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Can Skyrunning Survive Long Term in America ? (With Co Host, Tom Hooper)
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Skyrunning on American granite hits different. We sat down with race director Tom Hooper of 603 Endurance to unpack why the Kismet Cliff Run belongs at the center of a revitalized Skyrunner USA—and how the Northeast became a proving ground for steep, technical racing that rewards guts as much as VO2.
We get specific about Kismet’s design: fast beachside start at Echo Lake, a brutal haul to Cathedral and Whitehorse, slick slabs, exposed ridgelines across the Moats, and a descent that taxes every ankle. Tom traces the race’s locals‑only roots to its current moment, backed by a $20,000 prize purse from Merrell and serious media ambitions. We talk travel and logistics—why North Conway works with multiple nearby airports, abundant lodging, and a new trail hub from Marathon Sports—and how that infrastructure invites bigger fields, deeper competition, and better storytelling.
From there, we zoom out. With Golden Trail stepping away from U.S. dates, can Skyrunner USA claim the space without overcomplicating points or definitions? Tom shares candid thoughts on course certification, simple rankings, and the kind of coverage that keeps fans engaged. We challenge the status quo on athlete pay, agents, and NDAs, arguing for transparency and consistent prize structures that elevate short‑trail specialists. We also spotlight a rising pipeline in the Northeast—names you know and names you will—plus the realistic path to a multi‑race festival weekend that feels like Broken Arrow on the other coast.
If you care about where American short trail is headed—athlete opportunities, prize money, media quality, and the races worth traveling for—this conversation maps the terrain. Listen, share with a friend who loves steep miles, and leave a review with your take: Should Kismet be the Skyrunner USA championship, and what would you change to grow the sport? Subscribe for more sharp, on‑the‑ground stories all season.
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Setting The Stage: Skyrunning In America
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Loriello. So excited to welcome frequent co-host Tom Hooper back to the show. The race director for 603 Endurance is back on to talk all things skyrunning in the United States. This was a really fun and I think very important episode. We get deep into Tom's race, the Kis McCliff Run, which is the last race on the U.S. Regional Skyrunner series that is happening this year, presented by Merrill. We talk about the race itself, its background, the courses, course records, all the good stuff that you guys would want to know as potential athletes wanting to race this race. And then we get into this discussion around Skyrunner. We talk about with the absence of Golden Trail series, is this a golden opportunity for Skyrunner to come into the United States? Essentially with the first world Skyrunner race that's happened since 2019 on American soil. We get into the need for a U.S. series with the lack there of a North American, really any United States Golden Trail series race, as well as only one North American Golden Trail race, where a knee could potentially be. We talked about the pros and cons of the of uh the Skyrunner series in the United States, if it's here to stay, if it there's going to be some learning curves, the players involved, and all the good stuff around it. Uh we even get into some inside baseball and Golden Trail, which uh Tom divulges about uh how Golden Trail almost came to be this year, um, but kind of fell through. So there's some some good gossip in there for you guys, uh some journalistic breaking news. That's kind of fun. Thanks, Tom, for that. So I hope you guys enjoy this one. It's always fun to banter with Tom Hooper, one of the brightest minds in the sport, good friend, and uh someone I always look up to. So without further ado, Mr. Tom Hooper of 603 Endurance talking Skyrunner. Tom Hooper, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, my friend?
SPEAKER_00Fantastic.
Olympic Sprint Reactions And Crossover Stars
SPEAKER_01It's good to see you, man.
SPEAKER_00You're uh you're looking a little tan today. You're I wouldn't say tan, I'd say sunburn, but either way.
SPEAKER_01Hey, listen, man. Anything to get out of that New Hampshire death cold. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's horrible.
SPEAKER_01Oh man. Well, welcome back. It's good to see you. It's good to have you back on. Um, there's a lot to talk about, dude. I I think uh the crux of the conversation will uh get into skyrunning, talk about the Kismet Cliff run, which is gonna be part of the uh U.S. regional skyrunning series this year. Um, but just like first reactions though, today uh Cam and Anna raced uh in the sprint at the Olympics, dude. How crazy is that? Yeah, it's kind of wild, right? It's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And it couldn't be two nicer people, right? Like they're just they're both sweethearts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and they came up. I mean, I gotta be honest with you, I know I've always known Cam like to not like be in love with the sprint distance. But dude, 11th place overall, not bad. And Anna, Anna to get ninth? Like, what the hell? Um, yeah, yeah, we're talking about like just it's it's so crazy to me. And the fact that like we know these people, I don't know, I find that a little weird too. And then you see them on like national television or worldwide television, you're like, this is this is we're in a simulation for sure.
SPEAKER_00I'm just hoping they both stay in trail and don't make that a full-time you know commitment now.
SPEAKER_01It's true, it's true. Yeah, I know. I would miss I would miss them both. I I don't know. It's it's so interesting to me because like I know Cam's been in this for a long time and been playing this game for in like in the queue for a while, but like Anna is so interesting to me because like I know she did this since she was young growing up, like skiing and growing up in Jackson, but to be that versatile of an athlete to just be able to like learn things that quick and uh and then just like go perform on like the biggest stage in the world, like I don't know. That speaks volumes as to what kind of athlete like I I've said this for a long time. Like, I I don't think we actually know yet like how good Anna is, especially in trail running, you know.
SPEAKER_00I think that you just take that whole Craftsbury group, I mean Sinclair. I mean, when we had the first Ragged, that whole crew came down, uh, Simi Hamilton, all those guys, and they're they just instantly transfer to being phenomenal trail runners. It's seems like it's so symbiotic, it just boom, it's they're just great at everything. Yeah, that's crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I hope uh it seems like I think they'll go back. I mean, I'm sure we'll get them both at Sun of P this year, hopefully. Um, and they'll kind of fold back right into it's weird too, because it's like, I don't know, I can't wait to have this conversation with both of them, but it's like, how do you go from being on that giant stage and like not letting that like get to your head or like you know, not like how do you just transition from like this giant thing in life to go back to trail running? Like, I I don't know. It's gonna be very interesting to see like how that unfolds this summer because now you're famous. Now everyone's gonna want something from you, want to talk to you, want an autograph, want to have some sort of conversation. It's kind of weird, yeah.
Black Canyon Takeaways And Emerging Talent
SPEAKER_00You know, all the family conversations where you can tell the same story over and over and over.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It's true, it's true. Yeah, it's it's so cool. Um, dude, what about uh what'd you think about Black Canaan this weekend? Any surprises there? How fast was that 50k? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00It's yeah, just crazy. And I the and the women are just getting so much faster and faster and fast. That's it's unbelievable to watch. Yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I called Jane winning. I knew it. I I had like Jane and Lindsay somewhere in that podium. I felt pretty, pretty, pretty happy with that. With that selection, is my men's podium. Cade. Cade came up big. I figured that was gonna happen. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know what's it what's great is because his his rankings are so low, nobody picks him on Free Trail Fantasy. So if you ever need just some extra juice points on your free trail fantasy, scroll down to see if Cade's in it. It's fantastic, it's great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, dude. I my I'm I'm I'm just gonna put this out there. I mean, what are we? We're recording this on February the 19th, 2026. He I he's my pick for one of the teams for 2027 to go to South Africa. Like, I really think Cade has a lot of potential in the sport that we haven't seen yet. Like, I would not be surprised if he's short trail, long trail, somewhere in between, I don't know, one of the two, at least for 2027, I would guess.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think the way the trail's going right now, there's some a lot of young kids popping in. Yeah, I think I I I'll say this. I bet there's people on that make the team that we don't even know about yet.
SPEAKER_01Oh, for Mountain Classic and Vertical, probably, yeah. I mean, it's short trail is always like it, you know, it's like that intermediary. Long trail, I feel like we can, yes, it's it's possible as well. But I think for at least the Mountain Classic, yeah, I think they're I mean, there's a lot of guys that like are still very like Jared Gillingham. That's someone probably no one knows about who I think I can't remember if he was at Sun of P this past year. He has had good results in Mount Marathon. He had a great result at Pikes. That kid, if he stays in the sport, has like a ton of potential. Zach Erickson is another one. He was at Sun of P. Um, I'm supposed to have him on the pod soon. He's had a lot of great Cirque series results. He's a like a provo Utah guy. Um, but yeah, very few people have heard of him. Would not be at all surprised. Uh in fact, he posted something on Stravi the other day. He's like, count down to 2027 worlds. Like he's already like thinking about that, which is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, hopefully he I wouldn't be surprised to see him on there. And yeah, there's a lot. I mean, dude, yeah, it's it's uh the depth is deep, like they say.
SPEAKER_00I heard this somewhere before.
Announcing Kismet In Skyrunner USA
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um all right. So we talked about all right, we talked a little bit about uh the Olympics, we talked a little bit about Black Canyon. Let's dive into uh let's talk about why we're here. Um I think the conversation is definitely one of uh extreme excitement. The Kiz McCliff run just announced is gonna be on the what do you guys call it? Is it the U.S. Skyrunner series? Is it the US regional Skyrunner series? Like what are we calling it?
SPEAKER_00That's a great question. I'm not even a hundred percent sure yet. Uh they have about nine Instagram handles. Uh you know, there let's let me see. Technically, it's called the Skyrunner USA series.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Skyrunner USA series. I like that. That's fine. I can yeah, I can I can gel with that. I mean, dude, it's uh I don't know. I feel like we there's definitely a need in the space for something like this. Um it's especially with Golden Trail not having a US-based race, really only one North American race this year. It provides an ample opportunity for a series like Skyrunner to get a consolidation of races in the United States and like have a tangible, tangible series, which I think is is great. My question to you, because as of right now, Kismet's the last one on the list. Is that gonna be the final?
Will Kismet Be The Championship Finale
SPEAKER_00I'm I are we the boss? Uh yeah, uh the final boss. Um I don't know the answer to that yet. Okay. I'm I'm gonna say yes, and I could be completely wrong with this. That's how it was framed to to us at Marathon. It was it was framed that this is gonna be the U.S. national championship. Uh this is why there's a$20,000 prize purse presented by Merrill XYZ. Um I think they're still getting their ducks in a row on how that's gonna work logistically, in the sense of do the top people from this championship or from Kismet go to Sky Masters? Yeah, do they get free entries? Do they, you know, what's the what's the protocol for that? So they're still working on that. Um, so I think that that that title may come later, so hope hopefully sooner than later. Um yeah, I I I don't know the the actual answer on that. I I'm hoping so. I'm hoping it gets that title just because of the prize money.
SPEAKER_01Sweet. Let's talk, let's let's get into Kismet a little bit. Because I think and uh you and I have had conversations many times about this. Like I've been very vocal on saying Kismet to me is one of the most underrated races, underrated courses in North America. Uh for folks that are interested in it, like it's such an easy, easily accessible place. Like if you're in the mountain west, you fly right into Boston, it's what, an hour and a half, if that, maybe two hours.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, same thing. I mean, you have you have Portland, uh, Manchester, Burlington, Boston, like there's so many airports that you can get to to North Conway. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's perfectly located.
SPEAKER_01And it's in a cute town, like North Conway. My life, my wife like loves that place. Like we we really enjoyed being there over the summer. Yeah, dude, there's not much to dislike about the area. It's it's pretty it's pretty awesome. So I'm it's exciting that you have this infrastructure in place. You've had you've been running this race for a bit now, and now that it's finally getting the shine it deserves with a lot of athletes on it. Like, I think probably the biggest name to run on this course, if I'm not mistaken, uh, thus far has probably been Dan, right? Dan Kurtz. Has Lauren Gregory ever been run on it?
SPEAKER_00Uh no, Lauren hasn't, but I mean Sinclair held the record until yeah, yep.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_00So then then Dan, you know, nobody had broken two hours on on it, which is was super surprising. Um, and then Dan did it in like 159 something. Like he but he paid for it. I mean, he was he was a bloody mess. Yeah. So it's good. I mean, well, I mean, at that point, we I had put up two thousand dollars to anybody that could break the course record. Um, so yeah, it was it was it was worth it for him.
SPEAKER_01I like it. I like it. Let's talk about the race itself. Like, how long have you been running this race for? Where did the idea for this race even come from? And then talk about the location.
Why Kismet’s Course Hits Different
SPEAKER_00This race was yeah, so this race uh was put on and put on by a guy named Gabe. Um and Gabe Flanders, and he it was kind of an unknown locals only race. I think the most he had ever had was 32 people at the race, just because of how hard it was. Um, he was getting super busy with work, and he had he wrote me an email and was like, is there any way you want to take this over? Um and I was like, Yes, absolutely. I mean, this race, I mean, this race back in the day only got the people that ran or that worked at the huts, they'd come down to run it. You'd get these sasquatches that came out just all legs, little upper bodies, and just you know, and and just crush it. Just because it is so hard. Um it, yeah, it is it's super technical, super steep. There's there's everything in this too. I mean, it goes from um you know, some some scree to you know, wide open above tree line to some really slick slabs on the down. Um the down may be harder than the up. There is a backside of North Moat. If you catch a toe, you're not stopping. You for another another couple thousand feet, um, they'll be they'll be picking you out of it. So it's it's a gnarly, gnarly race. Yeah. Wow. Um, so get yeah, so gabe started it, and then and then when we took it over, um, we just tried to make it bigger and better, more of a party scene at the end. It actually finishes at Echo Lake State Park, which is a huge lake right at the base of Cathedral Ledge. Um, so you know, if you look at the pictures, it's just a beach and straight up slab. So it's where all the rock climbers go.
SPEAKER_01Oh, cool. Yeah, dude. It's uh yeah. And you are you keeping both the distances for this year, or are you just gonna have the one main distance? Yeah. You are gonna do both? Yep. Okay. Yep. Yeah, half marathon and five miler. Okay, so five miler for the for the beginners that are interested in maybe dipping the toe in the set in you know in the water and the five miles, not that easy.
SPEAKER_00Is it hard too?
SPEAKER_01It was like 2,000. It's really hard, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so so what happens is you run around the lake, and then in that first after that first mile, I mean, you get 17, 1800 feet of vert straight up just to get you on top of Cathedral and Whitehorse, and then you kind of dip down and then you come back around the lake. Once you get to the top, you actually, if you're doing the half, you get sent out to do the both moats. So you get yeah, you get some some good climbing after that.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, I can't wait to check this course out. I was oh I almost did it like in ran the course itself the last time we were out there, but I was it was after Killington and my hip flexors were really angry. So I didn't get a chance to to run run around it.
SPEAKER_00I just did uh it's fun to see the carnage at the end. And you know, at as you know, at the end, you know, always ask them, you know, is it easier or harder than you thought it was gonna be? And everybody's like, that was way harder than I thought it was gonna be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, dude, it's an easy choice for a Skyrunner race. Like the technicality, I feel like is just gonna bring something that people from like the mountain west are just like not gonna be not gonna be prepared for. It's gonna be something completely different, which is really and that's how it came about.
SPEAKER_00It's just because other people finishing was like, this should be a sky race, this should be a sky race. Um, you know, Cory Woltering was like, this should be a sky race. Um, and then you know, once he started working with Merrill, I was like, this this could be the opportunity. Um, so you know, met with Corey and Rachel and Adam and Ben at Merrill at at TRE, and we kind of talked about it, and uh it just seemed to be a perfect fit. You know, I did know about Golden Trail kind of fizzling in the States, so because but we had been working with them trying to put something on that kind of wasn't gonna work. Um, and then I was like, This this is the perfect time for you guys. If you guys want to make a move, um, I think this is the year because Golden Trail is gonna be out. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01What do you think this does for the like? So we've seen, you know, the Cirque series is in the Northeast now. You have a a handful of really solid races in the Northeast. I mean, there's a lot of like like if you want to do a season in the Northeast, like for Short Trail, like it's you could do it now. And like there's a lot of really solid races. What do you think this does now that do you think it adds an additional air of legitimacy to the Northeast racing scene? Because now you'll have white, you have Whiteface and you have Kismet that are part of this this new uh Skyrunner series, which is kind of cool.
The Race Origin And Course Details
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, if you just look at the whole Northeast and what they offer between old school Vermont 100, you know, you have another five or six 100s that are out here. Um, we have stage races, you know, we have there's is a and anything you want, you can do here. Um, I think adding series gives it legitimacy. I think adding big prize purses, legitimacy. Um I think that everything that we're doing is is raising our hand, being like, hi, we're we're over here. You don't have to play in the west every day. Come on over. Um yeah, so I think I think it's I think it's getting there. I think we I think we can say after 2026 that the Northeast is a legitimate uh playground. Oh, for sure. For sure.
SPEAKER_01I think even more so now than I than maybe the Pacific Northwest in some ways, just because of when you're kind of comparing, uh like I don't know, uh there's a few big racing weekends out there, like trail fests and things like that. And I don't think they get quite the level of maybe it's more ultra-focused, if you will, or there's more athletes that are more interested in the ultra scene, as opposed to the Northeast. There's a lot like dude, Mount Washington, like there's so many really solid uh, you know, and there's there's a lot of solid potential for short trail races all over the place, like very iconic ones. Um, and there's unlimited ski resorts, like ski resorts are dime a dozen uh in the northeast, like they're everywhere in Vermont and New Hampshire, um, which is cool. That I think that adds a whole different uh it does, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It it it adds an after party, it adds lodging, it uh you know, adds all these things. You know, some some races don't have that luxury, you know, they're doing it in like the town's local park, and you're kind of like scrambling your you know, sleeping an hour away, you know, in another town. So this these races you can you can sleep in the same town, you never have to leave the resort. It it gives I think it's I think it gives the broken arrow vibe in the northeast where you can have the little villages uh and stay pretty close to your to your start line.
SPEAKER_01Do you and I and I don't know what like future plans look like, but do you think there's a pos there's a potential for a broken arrow of the Northeast, if you will, where one of these races starts to catch on in a very like maybe Sunopee, you know, you add a few more distances with the vertical and stuff like that, and next thing you know, you've got a a weekend on your hands of like straight up multiple races and it becomes a big thing, or or Kismet. Because Kismet, I think Kismet has a lot of potential in the sense where North Conway just makes it's the area, it just makes so much sense. Um, do you see something like that uh potential for the Northeast where there's a big festival like weekend thing that's created?
Distances, Vert, And Technical Terrain
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, yes to everything you just said. I mean, North Conway is gonna be the Mecca. Marathon Sports is just bought a 4,500 square foot retail store that they're turning into like a trail hub with you know TV and a coffee shop, and you know, it they want a hangout. That's that's you know, we do have a lack of running stores that have don't you can't go watch UTMB, you can't go have a watch party at for Western states. So that's basically what is being built in North Conway. So that's you know, now Kissmet is less than three miles away from this store. Cranmore Mountain Race is less than three minutes three miles from the store. So everything is basically gonna be run out of out of there. Yeah, and then to the other thing about the broken arrow, yeah, I do believe that that's gonna it's going to change. There will be some races that are more like broken arrow where the distances get longer, where you have a hundred miler um attached with a vertical and uh you know and uh classic up and down and stuff like that. Yeah, that I would say by 2027 that that could happen.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I I like the T's, I like the T's. And especially because like I don't know, there's a lot of guys and gals from the area, dude, that I think it's just like I don't think people really know that like KD Scheid and Jeff Cole, no Williams, like there's so many names in our sport, uh Hillary Girardi, that all come from this area that have kind of have roots uh more or less like in between Maine and New Hampshire. Even Finn is I think he's a Mainer. So there's a he's a Mainer. Yeah, there's a lot of Northeast guys and gals um that I think would uh that are in the scene that would help help push this and propel this thing forward um from an athletic perspective for athletes to come and join in on these weekends. I think there's a lot of opportunities there, which would be very cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, and they're coming to hang out now. I mean, that's uh or they've or they went out west and they're back. Like you look La Puma, you look at Sinclair, you know. Dan Kurtz, uh, Remy's an hour over the border. Um, you know, like these guys are all they're all dabbling.
SPEAKER_01That's true. It's very true. Yeah, and there's a good contingent, man. And and hopefully that uh, you know, I don't know, I hope brands start to see, because it looks like there's more brand investment than ever, especially, and we'll talk about prize money in a second, but with the put up of prize money and brands getting invested in in the races themselves, hopefully that kind of flows through to the athletes too, and there's more potential for athletes to get signed from those areas, right? Like there's not just like one-of-one outliers with like La Puma, Dan Kirkz, David, uh Sinclair, but maybe others, you know, that'll pop up in the scene um, you know, that have potential. Just because like, I don't know, I feel like everybody either comes out of Boulder, Salt Lake, or Mammoth, Flagstaff kind of deal. Like it would be cool if there was more like a true mecca in the Northeast for athletes of that high level and ability, which is would be cool.
Northeast As A Short‑Trail Powerhouse
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just just a little little town that's producing trail runners. Yeah, yeah. That's true. Well, I mean, that's that's kind of the thing with Marathon Sports, has I think one of the largest, if not the largest, scholastic program in the country. I mean, they're just down there at the at the New Balance building, just building kids, you know, these speedsters. So why can't we take them now with this new platform and and just skip the road racing and take them right from cross country to throw them onto the trails? Like that that should be the exact the exact thing we're doing. Um I know that Marathon Sports this summer is doing adventures and like they're gonna they're gonna start blessing those people from from down in Boston and Mass up to the whites um and do small experiences like that. They have trail camps that are gonna go on. So I think that I think that's basically what's gonna happen in the next two to three years. I think that these guys, these kids are gonna just skip the skip the road scene and come straight to the straight to the trail.
SPEAKER_01Which I I I love. I love dude, and this this actually goes to Blackhead and with uh like Molly and Dez running this past weekend. I was like, oh my god, if Molly goes and wins the 100k, it's gonna make trail running like like because I feel like trail running is its own it's its own thing. It is a complete it's a different sport, right? And if someone comes from like that level and ability and just like crosses over and just wipes the floor with everybody, I'm like, this is not good for trail running. I mean, not in the worst way, like obviously it'd be great for Molly. There's got to be a little bit of a learning curve in a character arc. She can't make all of us look bad, but it worked out. I feel like it worked out the way it was supposed to.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, it's really in but let's remember. I mean, Heather Jackson did the same thing. I mean, she she jumped in and you know the 100k was was pretty quick. But when Western States comes along, it may smack you in the face a little bit harder. Like that extra 40 miles is a big deal. It doesn't yeah. I I I I'm interested to see how when you know when a hundred miler hits, where how far in that pain cave she can get. Um and I think there's a learning curve. I think that I I think there's like yeah, I would guess that there's probably like a two-year window where you start learning what works, what doesn't, and okay, now I know what to expect and know the new kind of pain that you feel. Um, yeah, I think that that yeah, in the next couple years, I think she'll be unstoppable.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say, there's no doubt in my mind she'll win Western states in the next like three to five years should she stick with it. Like, I think that's totally possible. I just didn't want it to happen right away and be like, oh man. Yeah, right. Back to the drawing board, everybody. Yeah. No, I mean, dude, trail running, trail running is hard. It is a different sport. So, yes, get them young if we can have that ability for athletes to cross over, you know, straight out across country at that, you know, very low to collegiate level to bring them over. Um, yeah, the pipeline is gonna be, I would say that that really would probably narrow the gap. I mean, I feel like the gap's always already pretty narrow enough uh between us and the Europeans, but I think that'll that would go a long way as far as bringing us closer to perennial contenders for gold on a consistent basis at Worlds. Not that we're not already, dude. I mean we're we're already pretty pretty solid, but still, you know, right? We get a few more Christian Allen's and Anna Gibbsons, and we're we're in good shape, dude. We're not messing around anymore. Right. Yeah. Uh yeah. So all right, let's let's pivot a little bit. Uh talking about prize money. So Merrill is gonna be putting up the twenty thousand dollar prize purse for Kisma, that's correct.
Building A Trail Hub In North Conway
SPEAKER_00That's correct, yeah. Um, so that's basically a lot of this came from worlds this year. Okay. I mean, sitting in a hotel room with some of these guys, and they're you know, they're telling you how much they're not getting paid, it's you know, in their contracts, it was kind of a it was kind of a bummer, you know what I mean? Like some of our good friends they're making almost just crumps garbage. So, yeah, so you know, when the acquisition came for the races and I was at TRE, and then you know, Brendan and dropped a hundred and fifty thousand dollar prize purse, you know, everything kind of changed, and I'm like, we've got to get these guys paid. Like, we have to. There needs to be something better. Like, even if their contract sucks, at least we can get them. I mean, this is like a glorified performance bonus, right? I mean, come to the come to the Northeast. You know, we have almost, I think we're close to like$125,000,$150,000 worth of prize money once these uh, you know, the run fund and everything else, and we start locking in the smaller sponsors. Um, I mean, these, I mean, we have over a hundred thousand with just the you know, presenting sponsors. So if we can get these guys some some paychecks, um, you know, the unsigned athletes like Mason and Tyler, like I don't understand that either. Like, how can you be on T you know Team USA and these companies are just like, no, we're good. That's it's it's baffling. Mind bottle. So um, so yeah, uh, I I hope these guys come out here. I hope they battle for the money and and yeah, take the take the cash. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, dude, I mean it comes from a good place, man. I I definitely am in the same thread as you are. Like, I don't know if you listened to the episode. I just, you know, I had Michelino on and and I can't remember if we cut that off. Yeah, who's that guy? I don't know. The sloth guy? Uh he uh guy's a bummer. I can't remember if I cut it out or not, but there there was a rant there uh that we may or may not have left in. But so yeah, dude, there's a lot of stuff about prize money and just money in general, and like how, man, like the the money needs to flow more to some of these short trial athletes, just athletes in general. Yeah, um, but I don't know. My question to you, and I I don't want to like take a turn on this conversation, but like do you think with agents entering the sport, like more agents floating around, do you think that'll help like level that playing field with like I think a lot of athletes don't know what to ask for and how to ask or know their worth, but maybe with an agent they will know how to value. Yes, they get 15 or 10%, whatever, but being able to value that athlete and say, hey, like ACG, you know, this athlete's worth 75 grand a year or whatever, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't think it's so much the agent. I think that these guys need to band together and say, screw the NDAs. Yeah. Yeah. Until we have an open, an open market, an old you know, open trading market. Like, look at baseball. Like, I've hit more home runs than this person, I know my worth, I know where we stand. I beat them at Western states. You know, what whatever the thing is. I think these companies kind of have everybody by by the balls just because they're like, well, nobody knows what anybody else is getting, so we can we can lowball everybody.
SPEAKER_01Right, but then everybody talks, so everybody does know. That's the funny thing, is like behind closed doors, like people, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I think I don't think they talk to each other if they're in the same realm. I feel like I think if you're not in this, you're not battling for the same dollar because you're a different sport or you're you're a different distance, I don't think they talk as much as if they're a short distance and a long distance. Yeah. Um so I I yeah, I think it until they band together and and do something like that, I think it's gonna be really tough for them to know their worth. Yeah. Um, I think it's also gonna depend on what a company's strategy is. I think do they care about FKTs or do they care about, you know, Western states? Do they care, you know, where does content come into play, right? Like, you know, hey, if you do the FKT, we need a three-hour movie and we'll make back all our money on that. Like I think it's there's so many different things to to think about in the business sense of it. But yeah, I yeah, I think the NDAs are killing what they could be asking for.
Can The Northeast Host A Festival Weekend
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. Yeah, and it's like how do we break that barrier down? I don't know. There's stuff with like the you know, the PTRA needs to grow, needs to get stronger, but they're very concerned about I feel like they're wrong things. Different things. I was gonna say different things. Yeah, they're concerned about pacers at Western states. They're not concerned about uh drug getting drug testing stuff figured out or making sure athletes have health care or better better payments, you know, or better pay overall. Yeah, that's a that's a whole nother uh conversation. That's another episode. They need me, dude. They need me to be the president. The people at oh god, I could write a book about some of the the poor people at the pikes, uh at the pikes, uh, pikes peak, they uh they're scared of me now. They don't want to hear what I have to say anymore. Um I I want to pivot a little bit and talk about uh just sky running the benefits uh because I know we we we really got into a lot of the stuff with Kismet and just like the I guess the more so the value creation there is in the benefits for United States athletes now that there is kind of that hole with Golden Trail gone uh in the United States, at least for this year. Um yeah, the the pros versus the cons. Because I feel like the pros definitely outweigh the cons. There are some cons, and we'll get to those because I want to bring those up.
SPEAKER_00I want to hear the cons first. Oh, you want to hear? I want to hear your your yeah, I want to hear your cons. Let's let's go cons first.
SPEAKER_01So, and this is this is uh friend to friend, and you can I want you to keep me on the straight and narrow here because my experience with the ISF has probably definitely not been as fruitful nor um or nice as probably yours. Like everything that I've come across, and I think it's gonna be on the race directors to educate the the folks from the ISF a little bit more on the American side, like you, Matias, and those, because everything I've got and seen is like, okay, we have to have a certified course. We have a uh we want to own a trademark on this, we have to um I don't have the trademark thing. Oh, dude, hold on, hold on. Listen to this. I got a I got a random message the other day because I posted this thing about vertical races. They have fucking definitions for everything, dude. This guy goes, great list of uphill races, but only a handful qualify as true verticals, defined as having at least 20% average grade with a 5% tolerance. I'm like, dude, nobody gives a shit about your definitions. They have like that. They have definitions and like trademarks, and they it's very much they want to control the narrative. It seems like to me, it's from a it's from a purist. I get that. It's very what it's it's very purist.
SPEAKER_00I get what he wants. I understand that.
SPEAKER_01But it's like, is that gonna fly like to the to your Michelino Censerias of the world or your Garrett Corcorans of the world? They're like, yeah, sure, dude. I just want to race the race. Like, don't don't educate me, you know? And I don't want to speak for them, but I'll speak for myself. But that's how I feel. Like, I just want to be an athlete. Like, I don't want to you to like try to educate me and tell me what I need to be doing or what this is and what's that. It's very much like they want to, they wanna uh it's very snobby, elitist of like they want to bring their shit over here and put that on. And that's fine. That's totally fine. But I don't know if that's gonna fly to the Americans.
SPEAKER_00But that's that's that's a lot of Europe. Like they have very strict standards for for their stuff. So I get that. I understand it. I'm I'm I'm not gonna be mad at them for being like it's not a true VK because it had okay, you're right, it's not. But I believe that's also why USATF doesn't call it a VK. Is that why? Yeah, so they have the classic up down, and then they have the ascent. Right? Is that I think that's what it's called? I can't.
SPEAKER_01It isn't is it it is an ascent, it's no longer and we saw this terminology change this over the last like year. Broken arrow, rebranded. Um, like when you had the Sunnepe for vertical or uphill course.
Talent Pipeline And Brand Investment
SPEAKER_00It was just called vertical, it wasn't called vertical K. Yeah, yeah. And I that was specific. That was a hundred percent specific why Nancy and USATF did that, is because it wasn't a true VK in the sense of a kilometer straight up, 20% grade, no down, blah, blah, blah. So I believe that that was technically why they did that. Right.
SPEAKER_01But I I wasn't calling it a vertical kilometer, I was calling it a vertical race. Up, down, up, what I like that's the thing.
SPEAKER_00Is there a difference between between if that's your only if that's that's your only con, then I'm I'm okay so far.
SPEAKER_01Not my only con. That was like the biggest con. Um I'd say that's the only really one. I think in like I'm gonna put that back on the race directors because somebody smacked your hand about your definitions and you got grumpy. Dude, they get they get the ISF fucking hates me, dude. Like they they give they ping me on something like once a week now about whether it's that or whether it's trying to educate me on stuff. I'm like, guys, you really don't know me. Like, don't try and educate me on stuff. Like, it's not how this goes. Yeah, they're uh they're they're I've been bumping heads a lot with them. So that's my graph. That's my grab. But I'm happy they're here. I mean, I'm not like you know, I think it's great that we've got I love these cons.
SPEAKER_00This is great. What else do you have? That's all I got.
SPEAKER_01Uh everything else I think is a pro. You had two cons. Quasi-cons. Yeah. All right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Everything else is appropriate. I like the certification part. I thought that was kind of neat.
SPEAKER_01Was it expensive though? Or is it like because it's like playing the role?
SPEAKER_00I don't think it was 250 bucks. Okay. All right.
SPEAKER_01So they make it approachable. That's fair. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
SPEAKER_00Yep. I mean, I do believe the the wheels were were greased for me just because Meryl wanted to get into the stores to sell shoes. So I think that there was some people behind the scenes being like, hey, make this happen. Faster than you normally do. So I that I to that extent I don't I don't know. But um, yeah. So it hasn't been smooth. There's a lot of different people that are that are in charge or think they're in charge, I guess. Um 90% of it has been really smooth, but there's some some some things where two or three people don't talk, um, but they and they both want to make the call. So that's the only thing I've run into where once you get them on the same page, everything's fine. Um yeah, other than that, uh the the sky running itself has been great. They've been marketing the hell out of it, yes. Um, which is fantastic because you don't see that very often, I guess, or I haven't seen that very often. You normally, if you get you know a sponsor or something like that, they do a okay, but these guys are media blasting this everywhere. So uh I've been impressed with that.
SPEAKER_01I gotta say, dude, I mean I can only speak for probably the World Skyrunner series, but I think their marketing's amazing. Some of the reels they put up and stuff that they make is if their social media is uh on par with Golden Trail. Like I think if not, they I think sometimes they tell a better story, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, if you have to seek Morgan Elliott's quads in in a video anymore, I'm gonna be sick, but yeah. It's true.
SPEAKER_01It's true. Shout out to Morgan. I think he's racing uh dude, and first race on the series is gonna be this weekend, which is uh crazy already that we're end of February and we're already getting uh some short trail in in across the world, which is dope.
SPEAKER_00Um I'm not sure Moe's even a U.S. citizen anymore. I don't think he's been in the States. I'll be honest with you.
SPEAKER_01I texted him last week, he did not respond to me, so he's on my list right now. Uh so yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Nobody knows. I just know whatever uh country he's in is uh the one that where the race is supposed to be. So Equidor. Is it Ecuador?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he's living the best life. Yeah, bastard. Somewhere like that, yeah. South America somewhere.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah. But okay, so we only had really two cons. And I and I think that'll figure itself out, right? I think that once they come in and start to play and things will start to figure itself out um as far as the series go, then they have the blueprint to work on for next year, and this will probably grow. Like I had uh the Flagstaff guys on from Aero Vipa, and they said that they were already in talks with them as well to join the series as well. So if anything, I guess the series will probably grow. So that will make sense. Yeah. Which would be cool.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, and uh we should go back to the golden trail thing with their post today. I don't know what that was. Oh, I missed it. We're gonna make this easy the they're like, we're gonna make this easier, and you get 100 points for this and 300 points for this. But if it's a championship or your first, you get an extra five. I was like, I needed an abacus to figure out what the hell they were talking about. But yeah, so I'm not sure what the point system is with Golden Trail that's changing, but yeah. I'm hoping Skyrunner doesn't make it that complicated.
Paying Athletes: Prize Purses And Gaps
SPEAKER_01No, I would hope it's like very similar to what their World Series ranking situation is. And you know what, dude, the other thing too, and I don't I think I believe Cirque Series does do this, but I'm I'm I'm guessing that they'll start doing it a lot more this year. Um, I know uh what is it? Golden Trail always does a good job after the races of like putting out an updated ranking so we know who's who, what's what, who's where, things like that. But it would be cool if there was like top 10, top 20 for everything. Um, and I hope that Skyrunner can do the same thing and we can kind of track and follow these athletes. Like it'll be really cool to see. I don't know. I I I'm I know Dan has signed up for one of them. I don't know if he signed up for all of them. I'm sure he'll do what you know, a bunch of them this year. That would make logical sense. But it'll be cool to see like his story and follow his uh progression through the series should he choose to do something like that this year or somewhere in that someone in that um kind of vicinity, right? Yep. For them to tell stories and storytell.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do with their media. Like, you know, do they follow around? Do they do a good uh you know, a good good job with their their marketing? I know when we first started talking, they were asking about you know 4G service and Starlinks and stuff like that. So uh it'd be it'd be really cool to see that all come to together. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01All right, so I I got a hard question for you. We could cut this out if if you don't uh if if we don't want to follow through with it. I'll answer it. So with Golden Trail, do you think that's true, that's true. We've already called, I've already called everybody out on this one. So do you um do you think Golden Trail is gonna come back? Like I don't I is I think it's gonna be hard though to get a foothold uh to come back in the United States scene. It's not gonna be easy. No, they're gonna have to I don't think so. It's gonna it's it can't be in June. They're gonna have to like settle for September, is my guess.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I uh I don't think that they're gonna care if they cross if they sit on somebody else's date.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'll make that call right now. Uh they I could have had I could have had a golden trail this year if I went on top of Western states.
SPEAKER_01That's not yeah, what are we doing? Why are we conflicting, yeah, with the fighting with our the dates? Like, can't we just move it to the following level?
SPEAKER_00That wasn't a hill I wanted to die on. Yeah. It's fair. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I'll be honest, uh, between Julian and I, we did every single thing possible to make Golden Trail happen happen. I I believe Jamil may have too. Um, I we I think a lot of people tried to get it to the States. Um, and there's a just a certain individual there that's really hard to work with. Um everything needs to be uh his way. Um and and he has bosses and they're not super happy uh with with what happened. So it'll be interesting to see how that all plays out. Yeah. Um now that you know WB uh HBO Discovery owns it. I mean, they still own it. Solomon is just there. I don't I don't know how that relationship really works. Um so I think that they I think there's gonna be some serious conversations this this I'd call it an off-season, off-season of of the states where they're gonna have to figure out who's in charge, who makes the call, end of story. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So well, and I wonder if because I mean it's been pretty seamless for them. They moved on from pikes, they went to Mammoth, they were able to create and they basically had a race created for them in um what was it, the one in in San Francisco or outside of San Francisco. And I wonder if they underestimated how easy it was gonna be to put something together or get something. Because once Broken Arrow departed, you know, you you gotta kind of figure it out. And I wonder if there was more so that underestimation of like, oh, maybe we'll just create something. Well, you know, the US permitting system is a bitch, so not exactly an easy thing to kind of navigate.
Agents, NDAs, And Knowing Your Worth
SPEAKER_00I think it was more so they were a little bit big for their britches and thought people would just say yes. Everyone would say yes. Gotcha. And and we didn't. Uh yeah. I I mean I think that I think there's still really good race directors out there that have like some etiquette. Like, you know, in the Northeast, we used to all call each other and be like, all right, what day are you taking? What day are you taking? What day are you taking? Like there was a professional courtesy. And I think that that's kind of gone away a little bit. Um but when this happened, I think they called all the race directors that still have a little professional courtesy, and we we said no, like we don't want to fall on on these big dates. Like, why do you want to go to head to head with these certain races? Like, that's not that's not good business, that's not good karma, that's nothing. Like, that's great. I think we're gonna pass on this. So, yeah, it'll be interesting. I think that they're gonna regroup. I think they're gonna be like, all right, let's let's make this happen, but let's do it the right way. At least it's that's I from the people at Warner Brother, that's what I'm understanding. They're fantastic. They're great, they're hilarious to work with, they're so open to every idea. Um, so I think they just need to figure it out internally, and then we can hopefully get something back in the States.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it'd be great. I mean, it would be great for the sport in general. And I know it, dude, it kind of sucks for American athletes, like especially between the final and the last race. I can't remember if it's in Japan or China. But dude, it's like a like three weeks to a month. Like, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna stick around? Are you gonna leave? Are you gonna come back? Like it just makes it very precarious for US athletes to kind of figure that one out um between you know the last few races in Asia and then having to come back to Asia for the final in Korea.
SPEAKER_00It's not not exactly easy, you know. Or you or you just skip and don't care what about the Golden Trail series and just races you race the races you actually want. Yeah. Which I think here is now because you want to go to it, not because you have to for Golden Trail. Like, you know, pick some pick some really good races maybe that you haven't done, and then when they come back next year, figure it out. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I mean, Rachel made a great point on the pod about this as well. Like, you know, because they waited so long and kind of sat on their hands, like sponsors were asking, like, what are you gonna be doing? What do you like? What are you doing this year? So athletes have to make decisions, you know, uh a lot ahead of the time. And it uh you know, I think the biggest tell for me that was so interesting was seeing like guys like El Housin back at Broken Arrow this year, even though it's not a it's not a like not on the on the series. Um, same with Sarah Alonso, like athletes like that still going over, still racing, still doing that thing, even though it's not part of the series. So I think that's a telltale sign that uh Yeah, but let's back up.
SPEAKER_00Like you're going to race these they're going to race those when it was golden trail because it was cash.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00There's even more cash. Right. Yeah. You're you're right. I mean, that's a that's a that's a payday right there.
SPEAKER_01Right. So they're following the money more so than following the series. If you, you know, like El Housine, that's an easy payday, more or less. Like I would would be surprised if him or Patrick didn't win, right? Like, so yeah, it's uh it's interesting. Yeah, the the lay of the land is strange, but I you know, dude, and that's another conversation we've kind of already had already, but it's like is that is that prize money model sustainable? Like who knows, you know?
SPEAKER_00I mean, they're only racing for so long. They only have so many years to do this. Like, you've gotta I mean, one, you need you need the backup plan in in the sense of like, okay, what's your you you need to rack up some wins to have your your resume when you get done so you can be like, hey, I'm a coach, this is what I've done, or whatever you want to do after. But two, you need to make money for you know and bank it. Yeah. You know. Sorry. I was gonna watch this.
Pros And Cons Of Skyrunner Standards
SPEAKER_01No, I was just gonna say, do you think there's more I don't know, I was thinking about this the other day, because we've seen a lot of movement in the free agency space this year. Uh Joe Gray, Max King, you know, even Grayson. Uh a lot of athletes have moved on from like the sponsors they've been with for kind of a long time. When it's all said and done, like, do you think there will be more opportunities for those athletes like to do different things? Like, I know Joe has always been very like outspoken and very um like a big um his discussion points have always been on anti-doping. And I feel like he would be a great like great anti-doping like czar or uh commissioner for our sport, right? Somebody like that. I don't know. I just think about like I I wish there were more opportunities for athletes once their competitive career is you know at the highest end is is over for them to go do different things and to have those opportunities, like whether it's in-house at a brand, which you see that from some brands, like David Laney kind of went in-house at craft. I'm sure when Courtney's contract is done, I'm sure she'll have something with with Solomon that'll be like a long-term thing. Anton with La Sportiva.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um blankenship with Mount Decoast, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right. So yeah, it makes you wonder like, will there be more opportunities uh down the line as the sport grows for these folks?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know where they go. I mean, you know, I always like looking at other sports to see how that went. Like if you look at the 80s, 80s basketball guys, but they didn't make much, it was the next generation that made them what where did those guys go? They became coaches, right? So they became, you know, you know, big man coach. Maybe not head coach, but they're uh, you know, they're uh a big man coach or or whatever it is. So it's yeah, I think that or they go to to high high school or college, stuff like that. So yeah, I I think that there will be more jobs for them, but I yeah, I don't it's interesting to see these guys as our friends, but then to see that they are the 80s basketball players, you know, they're they're they're starting the sponsorships that are gonna be the big big boy sponsorships in five to ten years. Yeah. You know what I mean? They're not gonna get paid, but they pave the way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Can you I'm sorry, dude. I you literally blanked out when you said it. Like I lost you for a second. Because I was gonna ask you, what era are do you think we're in? And I I think you gotta answer it, but I did I didn't I missed the whole point. I missed the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think we're the 80s basketball. Do you think? Okay, I think we're the yeah, I think we're the 80s. I think, yeah, I think we're the 80s basketball where they're sort of getting money, but it's nothing you're they're not they're not buying Lambos yet. Right. Uh I think I think they'll be they'll be a generation off from that. You know, I think next five years will be the 90s, and then I think there'll be there'll be real contracts, you know, where you know, six figures plus everybody all the way around. Like cycling, basically.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I feel I feel very much like we're still in that, yeah, like 80s NBA, maybe 90s UFC, where guys are still wearing the gi in there and like uh like like you can still hunt about people, and it's like, yeah, it's it's we don't even have dude, we don't even have the anti-doping in our sport yet.
SPEAKER_00Like people No, I think 90s UFC is more like jerk. He's a grazy.
SPEAKER_01I can see that that would make sense. Uh yeah, dude. It's uh yeah, we're starting and you could see we're starting to change more professionalized, like there's more money rolling in. But yeah, once we get like uh we're maybe in the TRT days, like once uh we get like anti-doping frameworks, so guys can't dope anymore. I think it'll it'll change. Like things will be it'll be a very different sport, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_00Right. And the was it Andro everybody was on back in it? Oh no. And and no, it was something else. Uh I can't remember. It was legal for a while and then they banned it, and they were still they were like, Yeah, we'll take it all.
SPEAKER_01Uh dude, you know what? And I wonder if they'll uh I'm curious to see because this is a conversation I've had with a few people now. Um, like stem cells, like where that technology is gonna go, and then uh damn, what I have a friend from college that sells what the hell are they called? Um peptides. That's it. The peptides. Yeah, because the BPC 157's been like super talk of the town because I guess like it's like really rampant throughout colleges now. Um and same with like Samourlin and stuff like that. So it's I'm cute, I'd be so curious to see like the profile of like people in the sport taking shit like that.
Media, Rankings, And Storytelling
SPEAKER_00You want you want to take a spicy take right right now? Yeah, you want to look at some some Salt Lake City podcasters. Take their take their speeds before the peptides and after the peptides. What wait, which hold on a second. Which uh which Salt Lake City Podcasters are we talking about? I'm I'm just talking some I'm just they used to push peptides left and right, and all of a sudden they're throwing down at Black Canyons, they're throwing down everywhere.
SPEAKER_01Oh shit. I mean, dude, the peptides work, man, from what I understand. I've got a my buddy, my buddy who sells them competes in high rocks, which is not a sport, but that's fine.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um, but yeah, he uh And I'm just joking. I was talking about Brett and Finn. They used to push that stuff like crazy, and all of a sudden Brett is the fastest man in media. So interesting.
SPEAKER_01Interesting.
SPEAKER_00I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. It's a good joke. I like it. I like it. I mean, I don't think they're are they you solder or wada? Like can you actually not that anybody cares? It's not like they're winning any races, but still, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I yeah, I don't think any of the peptides are banned, are they?
SPEAKER_01I have no idea. I don't think so. I take I'm clean sport, dude. I I follow uh it's Momentous, baby. That's right. All right, dude. Right, about an hour, 48 minutes, something like that. I think this is a good convo. Cool. Uh dude, thanks for coming on. I love our chats as always, and uh we'll definitely have more as we get through the season. And uh yeah, dude, looking forward to the next one. And thanks for the hot takes and appreciate your uh appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00My phone's gonna start blowing up after some of this stuff.
Golden Trail’s Return And Scheduling Clashes
SPEAKER_01Dude, same I guess I called out the entire ISF, bro. Here we go. Thanks, Tom. Appreciate it. It's all what'd you guys think? What do you think? Uh do you think Skyrunner will be a long-term thing in the United States? Do you think Golden Trail is gonna come back into the scene anytime soon? Uh, I'd love to hear what you guys think and what you guys want as fans, as athletes, as people interested in the sport. I'd love for you guys to comment on this and and let me know what you think is gonna happen for the long term and just where the lay of the land is going and uh what you guys want to happen. So always interested to hear what the folks are thinking. Um, guys, always appreciate for Tom uh coming on the show. You can find him on Instagram at Tom Hooper. You can also give him a follow at 603 Endurance and best support him by running one of the man's races. Guys, there's a whole slew of good stuff to choose from. If you are thinking about doing a race um on the east coast of the United States this year, oh man, you can pack yourself a double weekend of races. Go out and get a Cirque Series race in. Tom is the search director, the race director for Cirque Series Killington and uh Cirque Series uh Canon, hop in one of those, and then guys, you got to show up for the U.S. Mountain Running Championship at the Sun of Peace Scramble. That's gonna be one of the biggest races in the Northeast this year, if not the biggest race, which is gonna be super excited to follow. And if you're looking for a mountain race that's a bit longer and in a really cool location, like I talked about on the podcast, check out the Kismac Cliff run. I'm not joking around. Potential final for the US uh North American regional whatever Skyrunner series. I I know there's like a convoluted name for this thing. Um, but it's the the final potential final for this. I don't know if we've given anything away with that. We hope it is. If not, we just spoke it into existence. The town is beautiful, North Conway, New Hampshire, cute little northeast town. You fly into Boston, it's like an hour and a half drive, tops into the mountains in New Hampshire, and you're like right right by Mount Washington. You're right by so many cool trails. So you could really turn it into a uh a fun long weekend, if not a fun, long week. See, look at this. Tom, Tom, Tom should be should be happy. I'm really selling this. But seriously, though, check out the Kis McCliff run. And if you're a uh if you're in town too, also check out the um Cranmore Mountain Race. That's another one that's pretty sick uh that Tom is recently uh acquired and is going to be putting on through 603 as well. So whole slew of mountain races to check out this year. Um if you're interested in registration, you're gonna be able to find those in the show notes. Uh pop on the Ultra sign up and uh find what fits what you're looking for, and you can go ahead and sign up. So thanks for tuning in. It's a new week. All kinds of cool stuff dropping this week. Lots of interviews, lots of reactions, all kinds of fun stuff. Um, honestly, I haven't even looked at the schedule, so I couldn't even tease anything. So lots of cool stuff on the horizon, though. Have a great rest of your week, guys. Thanks so much.
