#164 - Zachary Erikson

What if getting cut—twice—was the best thing that ever happened to your running? We sit down with 2025 Collegiate National Trail Champion Zach Erickson to unpack how a BYU distance runner rebuilt his confidence, found joy on steep terrain, and turned setbacks into podiums at races like Snowbird and the Pikes Peak Ascent.

Zach brings a candid look at pressure inside an elite NCAA program, the chronic pelvis injury that sidelined him for a year, and the mental spiral that came with fearing failure. Then the story bends: friends nudge him onto trails, the vertical clicks immediately, and he applies an analytic eye to course scouting that pays off fast. We talk why steep gradients suit his physiology, how he handled high altitude without a fancy setup, and why gratitude—not grind—became the engine for progress.

Beyond trail running, Zach shares the cross‑training that keeps him sharp. He joins a local cycling team, races Zwift, and uses the bike to build the same climbing power he needs for uphill miles. He even dabbles in triathlon, battling through the swim and still running into top overall finishes—proof that versatility and humility can coexist with high goals. Looking ahead, Zach calls his shot on the US Mountain Running Team, circles vertical races like Broken Arrow for redemption, and targets big rides like LOTOJA alongside local canyon KOMs.

If you care about mountain running, uphill training, injury comebacks, or building an aerobic engine without burning out, this one hits home. Come for the Pikes Peak insights and BYU war stories, stay for the practical takeaways on mindset, cross‑training, and racing where your strengths shine. Enjoy the conversation and, if it resonates, subscribe, share it with a teammate, and leave a quick review to help more runners find the show.

Follow Zachary on IG - @zacherikson

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Transcript

Meet Zach Erickson

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello. And today's guest I am so excited to welcome is the 2025 Collegiate National Trail Champion. He's also third place at the 2024 U.S. Mountain Running Championship at Cirque Series Snowbird. And more recently, in 2025, seventh place at the Son of Peace Scramble at the U.S. Mountain Running Championship. Most recently, he was on the podium in third place at the Pikes Peak Ascent in 2025. His name is Zachary Erickson. So excited to welcome Zach to the show. Really, really, really interesting guy. In my opinion, I think he's one of the many young, talented men and women entering the sport, and without a doubt, is going to be the future of our sport in not too long a time. We talked all about Zach's upbringing. We talked about him being raised in Idaho, competing at BYU at cross-country and track and field. We talked about the highs and lows of his track and field and cross-country life, being cut from the BYU team twice, and then being able to claw his way back and find happiness and immense respect for the trails where he seems to be really enjoying it. We also talked about getting into other types of uh endurance sports. Zach also has competed at a very high level at uh Iron Man Um Triathlon, which is pretty dope, uh having finished very high at two different uh races, which is pretty cool. Um yeah, really interesting guy. I think you guys are gonna enjoy this episode. Big fan of Zach's um and I can't wait to see where his uh trail future is gonna take him. So without further ado, Zachary Erickson. Ladies and gentlemen, all right. Zach Erickson. Welcome to the show, dude. How's it going? Doing well. Thank you for having me on. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, I've been like uh I don't want to make this weird, but like I don't want to say secret admire because that sounds really weird, but I've been a fan of yours since like uh maybe like 2024, Targi. Uh first time I was at that race, you had, I don't know, you were like on the podium or somewhere up near the front, had a great race, um, and then last year became an even bigger fan of yours uh with your body of work and then seeing what getting on the podium of pikes and a few other things that I was like, oh man, this is uh a great conversation to have because I feel like you were kind of the future of the sport in a lot of ways. I think like you have a lot of potential to be like that next next guy up. Um so yeah, I'm excited to have this conversation and uh and learn more about you.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Well, sweet. I'm excited to be on. And um I I wouldn't say future of the sport. I'm just you know here to have fun. So I think we'll save that for some other some other person. Oh man, you're being modest, dude.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Uh before we get as we get started, give me like the I do this for all like the newbies. Like what's what's like the five-minute elevator pitch? Talk about BYU, talk about growing up in Idaho. Give me like the uh the background and how you found sport and your relationship with it.

Injury, Uncertainty, And Getting Cut

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Okay, yeah, I'd I'd love to. So um I grew up in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Um, had some, still have some uh amazing parents who were super supportive of me and in anything that I did. They got me um involved very early on in sports. So I played basketball, baseball, football, just everything, you know, and um stayed busy all year. And it wasn't until I got to middle school that my parents made me do track. And I didn't want to, you know, I there was the the fun sports to focus on, but I ended up doing pretty well. Um and I had some friends that did cross country, and so they recruited me to do cross-country and um just fell in love with the sport, fell in love with running. And I I went on to have a you know a decent high school career. I my my goal was to win state, never got there, you know, got got second um twice, but um that's okay. You know, it's it's not all about winning, but I I really enjoyed my time there. And I I mean another one of my big goals was to run for BYU. Um, they have an incredible program. And I I went to their camps over the summer and ran fairly well at those and um was able to put together a a couple performances my senior year that uh validated that I deserved a spot on the team. And so luckily um Coach Eyestone and Coach uh Isaac Wood at the time, they um had me on a visit and offered me a spot. And I think I was the only guy um in the in the class that accepted on the spot, like, yep, I'm committed, of course. Not even a question, you know, like this has been the dream. So um that was a a big uh a dream come true. I let I I stopped running. I I went on a mission for my church for two years. Um I served in El Salvador in Georgia. Um just because of the pandemic, I had to come back to the United States. Um and honestly, I I didn't run much. I I kept track of my totals throughout the the two-year mission, and I ended up averaging about 0.7 miles a day, and that was more like a four-mile run once a week at like 8.30 pace. Um, so I I didn't run a whole lot, but honestly, it was nice to just not worry about running, you know. It's good to take a break. And I got a little pudgy, um, not super though. Um, but I I did get to a point where I was like, do I even like I'm okay if I never run again? Like, this could, you know, but once I got home and like, okay, let's start training, I quickly, very quickly remembered how much I loved it. So um got back into it. Uh first you know, year at BYU, had some success, got back into six months to get back into shape. Some people it takes longer, some people never get back into shape, and you know, some are quicker. But for me, it was around six months, and then you know, kept improving and and had a good good freshman year. Um and then sophomore year. I mean, I I was never gonna be the all-star, right? There, there's some some absolute studs that um end up at BYU, national champs in high school, you know, sub-four milers. That I that wasn't gonna be me, but you know, I I was hoping to you know progress over you know the four years to get to a spot where you know I'm at least contributing to the cross-country team, you know, running in the hopefully top seven. Um sophomore year, I ran well. I traveled with the team, um made some progress, but over the winter I developed a hip injury, uh pelvis. It's called osteitis pubis, and um it it developed into a a nasty chronic um injury that took me out of running for a full year. And that was a super trying time. So that was like 20 May 2023 to May 2024, and and so during this time the uh physical therapists uh at BYU doctors, they they didn't know what was going on. All I knew is that it it hurt to run. So um I did the best that I could. I I I took up cycling and you know other forms of cross-training, and um during this time, uh Christian Allen joined the BYU team, right? In what year was that? Uh 2022, I think he came in the fall. But he he stuck around a BYU for a couple years, and you know, he was very you know helpful and encouraging during this time. And and as I was, you know, finally coming back from this injury in 2024, he was like, Zach, you gotta you gotta get out on the trails, and I was like, why not? You know, like I uh after cycling and just doing all these other things, I'm like, you know what it I any form of endurance, you know, competition is great for me. And so I hopped into the US Mountain Champs in 2024 at Snowbird, and I did pretty well, you know, and I was like, whoa, this is sweet. And like I was a total newbie, first trail race, like I didn't know the people that were there. There were some like pretty good people that that showed up. I think I did have some home field advantage. I had gone out and like scoped out the course, you know, and like really, I don't know, felt I'm a pretty analytical person, and so like I I I was looking at the segments and you know, when I ran it myself, and I think I I did have just some of that over the people that were coming in from out of state, but um either way, I I still ended up running um past my expectations, you know, and um it was just a lot of fun, so yeah, I ended up doing that targy race with you um like a month later, and I mean did okay. I was third place again, but um again, it was a super good experience. And then yeah, that that took me oh, and also as part of my BYU career, um I got cut from the team at the end of the 2024 track season, so at the start of the year. Um because I I was just hurt for a year, right? Like, I don't blame them. And Coach I stone was like, look, we're gonna have a tryout spot at the end of the in the fall, and so like, you know, get healthy again. We we want you on the team, like get get back. And so, you know, I did what I could, you know, did these trail races and um was able to get back, you know, to to tryouts, and I pulled uh a performance out of my butt and kind of clutched up and made it back on the team. Like, okay, like let's let's just focus on you know getting back into fast shape, you know. Run running the trails is a little different than uh cross country and track. But I just again I I just wasn't able to figure it out. I at the time I I was worried about like running too many miles, causing the injury to you know flare back up, and I don't know. I I I was just being kind of dumb. And so I didn't get quite back into the shape I needed to be to stay on the team. Totally my fault. I do think that there were some other guys on the team that that should have been cut before me, but oh well, you know, that's that's the way it goes. Like life moves on. So at the end of December, I got cut from the team. Um but the team, the BYU team won the national championship that year in cross country. So I was technically on the team when we won the national championship.

First Foray Into Trail Racing

SPEAKER_00 12:27

So they uh did they hook you up with the ruling at all or no?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

No, no, absolutely not. But I was just happy for my teammates, right? These I spent you know four years with these guys, my best friend. So um, if anything, it was just um it was it I was happy to see them succeed, you know. But talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

I think that's something like really important to dive into because I know for people listening to this and people that will meet you in the future and for the success that you've already had in the trail space, like I mean, you are the 2025 Collegiate National title for trail, and I don't think anybody, many people know that um with your performance at Sunapee, which we'll we will talk about. But on the flip side, like how did that make that must have made you feel horrible? Like not being able to be on the team with those teammates and kind of uh you know, this back and forth um trying to figure this aspect out. Like, did you have a lot of doubts about yourself? Like, how did you how did you work through that?

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah, absolutely. There was there were a lot of doubts, and I think a big part of why my injury turned chronic was just the fear of um failure. So I I began to have the fear of being injured because if I was injured, then I was gonna be cut from the team, and that kind of just caused me to spiral. And you know, it it hasn't been until I I let go of that fear uh of of being you know afraid to fail and just decided to like, you know what, let's just worry about today. You know, we're we're to today's a gift. I'm lucky to be healthy now. Um or if I'm not healthy, I'm I'm lucky to be alive, right? And I can ride the bike, I can I can do lots of things. So just having an an attitude of gratitude, uh, right, to just take it one day at a time and and be thankful for whatever you can do. Um, because it's not all about winning, right? It's nice to win and and be successful, but at the end of the day, it's just I don't know, it's more about the relationships you make along the way and just the experience of it all. So for me, being a part of the BYU team was the most incredible experience of my life, right? It it ended horribly, like terribly. I I was cut from the team not once, but twice, right? But I made lifelong friends, you know, the experiences that we had and and still have um and will have, like, can't trade that for anything.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Right. Can you talk a little bit about the level there? Because I don't think listeners really understand like the best of the best, like was it I I know with Christian Allen, obviously, who's you know, arguably the best, uh, you know, one of the best Americans right now on the scene. Um was it is it Connor Mance? Did Connor Mance run for BYU too? So it's like killer, killers, straight up killer's row. So maybe just talk about the level there of what that's like. And is it is there a lot of pressure on you training with these folks and and a lot of pressure to succeed? Like talk, talk about that.

Pressure Inside An Elite Program

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah, BYU is one of the most elite universities for for distance running in the United States, period. Right? Connor Mance, he's the current American record holder in the marathon. He was on the team my freshman year, and he won you know back-to-back NCAA championships in cross-country. He was the first American to do that um in a long time. You know, absolute stud. And he lived right across the street from me, you know. It was just like he he like took me under his wing. He ran with me every morning um on our double, you know, our run outside of practice. Like he helped, you know, guide me to uh as part of my running journey. And so that was really cool to be with, and I and I still run with him, you know, occasionally. Um, some of the other guys on the team, um Casey Klinger, Aiden Troutner, these two guys were the the Gatorade runners of the year in cross country. So they were literally the best high school recruits in the country. So they were on the team, and then just a bunch of other guys that you know they got to BYU and just developed into these all-American, you know, studs. Um, but yeah, BYU, they we went, we placed third at NCAA's in 2022, um, third again in 2023, and then first in 2024. And so there are three years when I was on the team. I mean, it's not like I'm saying like it was because of me, I was on the team, but no, I just happened to be there along with these other really good people, um, and and we had a lot of success. But there was, yeah, there was kind of this uh bad I don't know how to explain it. There's this expectation, right? Like you're with some of the best guys in the country, like I need to stick with them in these workouts, or else, you know, I'm not good enough. And so I would kill myself, you know, to keep up the first rep, right? And then, you know, I'm getting dropped so hard, like immediately after. And I think I would have benefited a lot from just taking a step back and like, look, I'm not at these guys' level. Like, I need to plan out, you know, over four years to gradually get to hopefully that that place, you know, and gone at my own pace. And I think a lot, I think there that is still a little bit of a problem on the team, but I I think that just happens naturally um with you know guys wanting to to be the best on a really good team, they they overdo it. So yeah. Does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

It does. And it well, it's just a it's a you know, it's a common thread. I mean, you hear that I've talked to so many people from CU and from other, you know, large institutions and amazing programs, and it's a very similar um you know, across the board, how just is you know, uh I don't know, there's just a pressure, different level of pressure, and it's just a different game. And some people really enjoy that pressure, and some people don't like it. And it's very interesting because the people that don't like it end up sometimes being the best trail runners, which is really interesting to me. Uh, talk about the trails, dude. They they gotta make you happy. I mean, it seems like that like you've had a lot of success very early on. It's a completely different game than cross country and track and field. Maybe talk about you know how the trails uh how you've liked them so far since transitioning over.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah, I mean, for me, I I don't know what it is, you know. I I run on I ran cross country, ran on the track, and like I was good, but I I wasn't really great. But there's just something weird about the trails, you know, those steep inclines where I just I do better. I don't my body's built for it, you know. Like some people are are built to run, you know, sub four in the mile. I'm I'm never gonna be that guy, but running up, you know, uh Pike's Peak, for some reason my body's like, yeah, this is your thing, like keep it up. Um so I I think an aspect of it is just that like you you like doing what you're good at, right? If I sucked at trail running, I probably wouldn't like it, to be honest. I I still do think like there is beauty in trail running, and I probably would still like it if I if I wasn't good. I I like being out in nature, I love exploring and doing all that, but the competition aspect of it really, you know, fires me up and gets me excited. And the fact that, you know, I'm decent at it, like definitely adds to it and you know makes me want to, you know, continue training and hopefully reaching a higher level to be one of the the best in the country. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

You're not and dude, you're not far away. Like you're you're well, so I was gonna I was saving this question for you till a little bit later, but I gotta ask you this. You wrote I follow you on Strava and you wrote on your Strava on January 1st, 2026 U.S. mountain running team or bust. Uh I like I like that. I I like someone that calls their shot a little bit and puts that out to the world. I mean, for the audience, you were third just showing up randomly at Circ Series Snowbird, which was the U.S. Mountain Running Championship in 2024. Then last year you show up to Sun of P, you're the U.S. Collegiate National Champion, and you got seventh overall, top 10 in a completely ridiculous field. Uh, you're knocking on the door, dude. You're you're so close. Um I know you went through like a little period of injury. If I remember correctly, I think it was like the last time I talked to you before pikes, you were kind of going through a little period of injury. Is that correct? Over the summer.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Um Yeah, I just I didn't have the best training. There were some family vacations. I I'm married and um, you know, there's just some some family stuff that it's hard to put in the time, you know, for training at times. Some people are incredible, you know, they're waking up at like 4 30 and and getting their stuff done. I haven't quite reached that. I'm trying to get to that uh place, but yeah, I just I mean dude, I see you.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

I see you at six AM.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Hammer in the house.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

I was just kind of thinking.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Oh yeah. Yep, I've been I've been zwifting. But yeah, it was just more than anything, I was just being lazy. So that's on me. But hopeful, we're gonna try to not be lazy anymore.

Why Steep Trails Click

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Would you say that's the big goal for this year is to go uh go capture gold and uh get on that team to go to DeFi Day Coulor, uh the up-down championship in Canada.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, like I I said that on January 1st, more just for fun. Like, I don't know. For me, this this really is about having fun. Run running's a passion, and like I I like doing well at it. And so like I I know what my capabilities are, um, where it's not totally unreasonable for me to say like I could be top four at a US championship, right, and qualify for world. So I think it's a it's a reasonable goal and you know something to keep me motivated. So I'm pretty excited to to go for it. I did the broken arrow ascent this last year, and just like wow, it was crazy how I don't know, just prepared people were for I don't know if I I I think I you know I don't want to make excuses or anything, but I just I did not show up and I got you know destroyed. So I I think that was a a good learning experience for me. And I I would love to make the vertical team. I I think that's a little bit more of my my specialty, but I I I'll still you know hopefully make the trip out to Sunope and compete because you know you never know what happens on the day, right? Yeah, that's what the race is for.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

And I feel like you have to have those bad days to really understand, and especially for someone as young as you to be able to like have those bad days, take learning away from it, and then make the adjustments going forward. Like, um I don't know, for the audience, like it like so you go and yes, you didn't have the day you wanted a broken arrow, but then you go and get on the podium of the Pike's Peak Ascent, which I have to ask you, dude, how did you train for high altitude living where you live? I mean, yes, you can get up to like Temp and you can still put train in the wasatch, but that's not 14,000 feet. It's a little bit harder to do that. Like, what did you uh do to prepare?

SPEAKER_01 24:25

That yeah, that's it's one of those things where it's just pure luck, right? God given.

unknown 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

I I don't know. I in in races, like for example, at Snowbird um in 2024, I thrived when we reached the peak, like felt so good. You know, I I didn't have a problem with that. And so with pikes, yeah, being around here, it's not like I could get up to a a super high altitude and prepare myself for that. And so I was just like, look, we just got to believe that I'm built for that, that I can do well in those high altitude environments. Um and that we'll, you know, be able to throw down when the time comes. And and luckily, I survived uh at Pike's Peak. Christian Allen was telling me that, you know, when he did it, he hit 13k and just completely, you know, uh altitude sickness just you know, he crashed, right? And that happens, you know. I if I go back this year, that same thing could happen, right? Like, so I don't know. This last year was kind of a little bit of luck, to be honest. Um but yeah, I'll I'll try to do a little bit more of a better job this year preparing for that specifically, but again, there's not a whole lot you can do besides just believing in yourself and being confident.

Big Goals And Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_00 25:51

That's a tough course to nail, too. I mean, once you get above, really once you get above 10,000 feet, like if it's a low pressure versus high pressure day, that's a matter of a like quite a few minutes. I mean, there's a whole different like uh just like environmental factors that play a role. Like your body is literally changing as you ascend the mountain from 6,000 feet to 14, which is kind of wild. It's it's one of the weirdest races that there is. Like, I I don't I don't think it gets enough, uh it hasn't gotten as much love since it was on the Golden Trail series, but I think it's uh it's a rare one out there, you know, where you just once you get above tree line, it's kill or be killed. It's a it's a pretty rough, rough experience.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

I would add, I I forgot about this, but last summer in July, my wife and I we went on a graduation trip to Peru and we did this trek to Machu Picchu, and we went over a mountain mountain pass that got up to 15,000 feet, and you know, I felt great up there. And I decided to go a little bit higher, run up the side of the mountain just to you know get a feel for 15k. Um, and I think that that also, you know, it was a stupid little thing. Like we were just hiking, right? And and I ran a little bit, but just use that as confidence going into pikes.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Um interesting. What about your I'm just curious about like the mountains for you growing up in Idaho, Idaho Falls, did you get, I mean, like as a kid, did you, you know, get into the Wasatch or get into the Tetons? Because I know neither of them are you know particularly far away from you.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Yeah, Idaho Falls is is super flat. Uh we're in the in a valley, right? So you have to drive out to get any kind of hills. Um so I I mostly I just put in you know good mileage, and that helped me get pretty fit. We did this my junior before my junior year over the summer. Our coach he had us do a couple trail runs. And so there's a route on the other side of the Grand Grand Teton called Table Mountain.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Um beautiful trail. You get up to the top, and you know, there's this flat little mesa where you have this, you know, perfect view of the Tetons. It's incredible. And we were we went and did it as a team, jogged it, you know, it was fun. And my coach, um he's one of those guys, I think he just he knows how to motivate me. Uh he kind of like talked some smack, and he was like a trail runner himself. He had done like a hundred miler, right? Some ultras, and so and he told me that he did it up and down in like two and a half hours, and that I would never touch that, right? And I was like, bull crap, like whatever. And so a few weeks later, I went back on my own and just demolished the the FKT and the round trip time, and it's since been broken, you know. That was back in 2017.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Yeah, Mikelino's got it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, Mikelino's got it, but um, it was really fun, right? And just kind of I hadn't really trained for it, but just when you have enough volume in your legs, and if you're you know a little more naturally gifted for the mountains and just those steep inclines, then you you can do some really, really cool things. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Dude, table, your coach is a stud, dude. That's amazing. I'm happy that like he got you guys out there to go mess around because that's a that's a sick peak. Like it's a very cool area. I don't know. I I love Targi. It's like uh it's my jam. But yeah, it's uh that whole area around there is is pretty unique and just beautiful. So that's uh that's a good training spot for people. I shouldn't say that on the podcast. I don't want people going there. Gatekeep over here, Zach. Yeah. So cool, man.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Well, I I would love to I would love to go back now and get that FKT just because I I think I could.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

I mean, you know you have the FKT on Mary's nipple, right? I was literally just looking at the segment the other day. Yeah, no one's touching that, dude. That's fast as shit. Like that uh that one was good, surprisingly.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

And I think uh I went a little too hard because then on the downhill I got caught by uh Hawk and Mason. Um but I don't know. It was still a good, good time to put up on that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Do you train at all with Hawk? I know he's kind of in the in the scene. He was on the trail team last year and he's kind of around.

Pikes Peak And Altitude Confidence

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yeah, this last year we we did a few workouts together at the start of the season. Um he was coming back from injury. I I was healthy at the time, and so I I felt pretty good about myself. Like, oh, I'm keeping up with Hawk, pushing him a little a little bit in some of these parts, and uh we were working uh pretty well together. But then life just happens, right? We just both got kind of busy and he was training for other things than me. Um I I also did two half Ironmans this last year, so I was you know training for some triathlon stuff on the as well. Um but yeah, we we connected a couple of times. Christian, uh, he invited me out to work out with him a couple times, and those are always awful because he's for anybody, he's so good. He is so good. Um and he's just he's an all-around, you know. I I'd say I'm I'm very I'm good at the trails and you know, more mountain, not even flat trails, right? But just like specifically steep stuff. And Christian, he's good at everything, right? He can run sub 210 marathon, um, wicked fast on the track, um, all American and cross country. And so he's like, Yeah, come do some 800s with me. Like, we'll go pretty easy. I'm like, Yeah, that's not gonna happen, but sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

And yeah. How does that what is that like, dude? Because I would be so intimidated. Like he's he's a you know, a god amongst boys. It it's nuts how how like stupid good he is in in regards to our sport.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Yeah, I mean, if it if it weren't for his mullet, maybe I would be a little bit more intimidated. The mustache, dude. The mustache, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, Christian, he's the nicest guy. I he I'm basically sponsored by Christian at this point. He he has a running store here in Utah, and you know, he's pro for Nike. And so I get a lot of his hand-me-downs like, hey Christian, you got any any old super shoes that are still got smiles on them? I said, Yeah, come come on up and give you some of these. And um, yeah, a lot of what I use shoes. I mean, the trail shoes that I've done all of my races in, he gave them to me after he, you know, used them and got a contract. And so they're really old, but I'm not spending another 250 bucks or something on you know, a new pair of shoes. These ones work great, so I just stick with them.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Shoes are expensive, dude. I I feel you on that. I get it, I get it. Uh I'm gonna ask you about some of the triathlon stuff that you dabbled in. Uh, talk about that. Was it interesting to you? Did you enjoy it? Like, will you do it again?

FKTs, Mentors, And Gear On A Budget

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Oh man, that every time I'm like, I'm never doing this again. Like this sucked, right? And then after a few weeks, you're like, was it that bad? Like, and then yeah, so I did the St. George Half Iron Man. Um, it was the North American Championships, and my goal was just to be the first non-pro, right? There's a very elite field that showed up, and I was like, I just want to be the top non-pro. And I ended up being fifth overall, uh, which wasn't bad. I had the 10th fastest run overall on the day. Um but that swim, the swimming, if you're not natural, like if you don't grow up swimming, it just and if you're like a lightweight kind of athlete, that swim is hard. Like you're just not gonna be as fast. And it's such it's a very frustrating um sport, swimming, because like a lot of it is technique, right? A lot of form, and you have to be willing to spend the time in the pool and you know, just fight through it and get better. And I didn't do that because I hated it, right? I I enjoy cycling and running, and so I went to the pool a little bit, not as much as I should have, but yeah, I there's this uh my friends were making fun of me in the St. George one because I got out of the water behind this girl that like I'm not I'm not saying she's out of shape or anything, she swimming is just a totally different sport, right? But it was like, oh gosh, like wow, I did not great. Um and so they they like to tease me about that, but it's all good, right? You know, every everybody has their own skills, and swimming is not mine, but it's still really fun. I I I ended up doing another one in in North Carolina with my brother-in-law, he he lives down there and invited me to do it with him, and it was really funny because this one, not a pro field, uh, just all age groupers, amateurs, right? And my goal is I want to win this thing, just outright win it. They the way Ironmans, you know, they they send off every five seconds a wave of runners, so like four or five people or triathletes at a time. So somebody could start back like five minutes and then move up really well and win the whole thing. But my goal was just like, I don't even care about that. I just want to be the first one across the line to break the tape because I've never done that before. That's one of my you know lifelong goals is to break the tape. I might have to find some stupid little 5k or something that nobody goes to that for some reason has a finishing tape to break it to meet that goal. But my goal was to do that, and so I started at the very front as a guy who sucks at swimming, and it was a massacre. It's in the open water, in the ocean, just you know, salt water, just caking the insides of my mouth, everything, waves just getting blasted. I'm like literally just like fighting for my life to you know stay up. People are just going over the top of me. So I I started off in like zeroth place, got passed by about 500 people in the swim, get out of the water, you know, sprint. There was a long transition that you had to run. So I take off sprinting, just flying past people to make up time, get to my bike, and then get over, hop on my bike seat. Um, and during the transition, I passed about 300 people, which, you know, is is crazy. I hop on my bike, the seat comes off, dude. And I lose about three minutes trying to get a bike tech to come over and and fix it. And during that span of time, another 250 people pass me. And so there's this huge back and forth of like, oh my gosh, what what is happening? But then yeah, I just clawed my way back over you're on the bike for 56 miles in a half iron man and moved up, you know, another 350 or something like that, and then on the run went from like 75th all the way up to seventh. And if I wouldn't have had the bike mishap, I I would have been around second place, um, but not first. But either way, it was it's still I I think it's really good to put yourself in these situations where you're not comfortable, right? And I for try triathlon for me, that's a great way, just because I hate swimming, right? I'm so out of my element. Somehow these like 70-year-olds at the at the pool are like flying past me, and like it just doesn't make sense. Like, it's crazy, but it it is a good way to I don't know, be humbled, right? Yeah, and and some more experience. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Do you think you'll do it again?

SPEAKER_01 38:18

You gotta go win one of these people. The Iron Man, they're expensive. Are they the registration fee for a half Iron Man is like 500 bucks for a full Iron Man, it's a thousand dollars. And so I think at this point I would like to do a full Iron Man. I don't know with my schedule when I would do that, but but again, that's something it's like I don't need to do that this year, yeah. I can do it in ten years. Um but when I actually have some money. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

It's a different kind of training too. Like I feel like it's uh I don't know, it's different than mountain running, right? Like you're a lot of hours on the bike. I mean, you're a lot of hours on the bike right now anyway. I mean, you kind of you know, the bike is a great tool to get aerobically fit. Um the only thing that sucks about it is the you know, getting having to swim. But if you could avoid that, it could be a lot of fun. Yeah, if you just ignore it, you'll suck at it, but yeah. Yeah, that's why Yeah, it's hard. It's tricky, right? What does your training look like now? I mean, I I lurked on Strava, saw a lot of time on the bike, saw some runs. Um, you know, like what is what if I don't know, like what are your immediate goals, I guess, for will you open the season at Sunopee or will you probably open things up a little bit earlier? What do you think as far as right now goes?

Triathlon Detour And Grit

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah, I mean, I haven't looked into it enough. I'm a pretty like low-key guy. Um, Suneopee isn't even set in stone yet. Like, I'd love to go out, but it's just we got to look at you know financials and whatnot. Um, I applied for the trail team. Okay. Um, and so we'll hear back from them. That would be amazing to be part of the trail team, right? And receive some support. But yeah, I think I'd like to do a some kind of race as an opener before Sunapee just to kind of get warmed up, not go into a cold. Um, but yeah, as for right now, I'm just I I actually joined uh a cycling team here in Utah, just kind of like a local group. I mean, nothing like pros or anything, but just guys that ride their bikes all the time. Um and again, it's just fun, right? I I love riding my bike, getting out and just you know, bombing it down these mountain passes at like 50 miles an hour. It's exciting, right? It's thrilling. And so I I joined a team and I've been doing some like zwift races and just some rides because I think for me, cycling does translate a lot to mountain running. Oh, yeah. In 2024, one of the reasons I did so well at Snowbird was because I was biking a crap ton. Like those the the muscles used in cycling go are are are the same muscles you use running up a steep incline. Yep. And so um I I plan on keeping cycling uh as a focus for this year. There's a big race here in Utah that I want to do in September. It's called Lottaja, which is Logan, Utah to Jackson, Wyoming.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Um and it's it's like a 200-mile race, takes the winners like eight hours, eight and a half hours. And I want to do it right and just see how this now.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

This sounds so cool. It's sweet.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

So I I want to see how I can compete with you know guys that actually ride a lot, you know, and and have experience with these races. But cycling is weird because you have to do kind of like they they enforce categories a little bit more, right? So you have to earn points to be able to go with the the elite group. Um, so I kind of need to figure out how to get to a place where I would be in like the fast heat of Lotojaw. Basically, they start 30 minutes before everybody else. Um there's some of that running is nice because I don't know, I feel like you can kind of just BS your way into races, say you're fast. Um at Snowbird 2024, first trail race, I was signing up in you know, Circ series, they ask you, like, oh, like if you're a novice, expert, or professional. And I was like, oh crap, like what should I do? Like, I've never done this before, like, definitely expert. But then I was looking into it and I was like, dude, why not just put professional? Like, what's the worst that could happen? Like, let's sign up as a professional if I suck, oh well, yeah, right. But if I sign up as a professional and then do really well, you know, let's say I get top two, theoretically, right? I would, you know, earn a spot on the the US team for that year, what what they were doing at that time. So I was like, I'll just do professional. And then I ended up being third. And I was like, oh, that's sweet. But yeah, with this cycling stuff, it's ugly, gotta get points and garbage. But yeah, that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

It's all good. But it's cool. I mean, dude, it's something different. I like how you like mix it up. Like you do the try, it's you're not just a one-dimensional person that's just like obsessed with running, you know, which is a lot of people I have on the podcast, which is totally fine. I'm obsessed with running. But that said, it's cool to mix it up and do other things. Like there's a lot of fun to be had on the bike and and you know, to try triathlon and and see what you think of that. And I don't know, like aerobic sports are interesting and different ways you can test your body in different ways are super fun.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah. Absolutely. My wi my wife keeps getting mad at me. Because I keep discovering like you know new things. And this last year, I was listening to this book. Uh it's called Training for the Uphill Athlete. Yeah. Um and it just kept talking about schemo. And I'm like, what the crap is schemo? And so I just like ignore it. Um and eventually they're like, if you're good at pull-ups, you'd be good at schemo. And I'm like, wait, I'm really good at pull-ups. And so I'm like looking it up. I'm like, wait, what? You get to just ski, you know, kind of hike, run up a mountain, then ski down and like race it. I'm like, this sounds awesome. Like, I'm a terrible, I I skied, you know, two or three times in high school, and I wasn't any good. And so this last year I was like, I'm just gonna go do it. And so here in Utah, they have a uh schemo race series, you know, just once a week, you know, pretty chill event, but the guys in the area they they go out and do it and race it, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna rent some skis, go skiing for the first time in in seven years, and let's just see what happens, right? Because I'm supposed to be good at this. Um, I I find I make it up there to to the ski resort in Brighton here in Utah and holy crap. I don't know if it's the the equipment I was using, but like I was so bad. You know it's bad when like my strength is you know going uphill on skis, right? You should just be able to shouldn't make a difference. Um but you know it's bad when there are five-year-old little girls passing you.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Oh man, like oh no, it didn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

I was like, what is happening? I just I don't know, felt so clumsy. I was using like tour touring skis, you know, not like the super nice, I don't know, lightweight schemo stuff, but it was super humbling. But it was just like another one of those things like let's just go and try this. And with the winter Olympics now, yeah, I'm seeing these cross-country skiing videos. I'm like, maybe I could be good at that. Yes, like yeah, can I rent some cross country skiing gear and and go out and like I don't know. And my wife is just like, Zach, stop. Like you keep it, keep it to one thing. You know, you've already done triathlon and expanded. That's three sports.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Like let's cool it. But it never ends, dude. It never ends. Tell her, you gotta tell her it never ends. My wife drive, I drive her crazy, dude. It's it's it's a never-ending thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Yeah, so I don't know, just endurance sports, they're all fun.

Training Now: Bikes, Zwift, And Plans

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Yeah, addicting. I feel like you know, dude, when you hit your like late 20s, early 30s, like you you assume some guys like get into smoked meats, some guys do other things, and then there are the dudes that are the endurance sports guys, and they yeah, it's it's a it's a it's a crazy obsession that never ends. It's super fun, man. You know, uh, and it's good for you, you know. But yeah, it gets obsessive where you like, oh man, six hours just passed. I should probably go home and and yeah. Back to the doghouse, yeah. Yeah, that's funny. Um, what other kind of biking objectives? Because I feel like the Wasatch front is so cool where you can like really hammer it up some of these. Like, I I think Jack Kenzel did, I forget which one of the canyons he ripped it on like within the last like year. Um, but like there's some really good climbs that you can hit on some of those canyons that are amazing.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Yeah, there's a lot of just really cool routes um here in Utah. And yeah, I'd love to go for some of those KOMs. Um, get those segments. Those yeah, I very motivated by by segments as well. And they're just a lot of fun, you know, to chase a time, you know, the a time trial. It's like, okay, I gotta wait for the perfect day where you know there's a tailwind, the temperature isn't too high. It's just it's fun, right? It's uh it adds another layer of that. So like I don't know if I'll do a ton of bike races, but I'm definitely gonna be going for some um segments. There's one here um in Provo Orum area, I guess Provo, Provo. Uh it's called Kive Peak. Okay, and just this 4.3, you know, winding road up the mountain at like 7%. It's nothing crazy, but like it's a it's a solid climb, kind of one of the I don't know, benchmark routes. This last year I I got on the leaderboard, I was got number nine all time, and I was like, that's crazy, you know. Especially, you know, going into the cycling world where people, you know, train as much as they do. Um, and so this year I I want to move up the leaderboard and you know, get to top three and you know, take my shot at get getting the the KOM, but we'll see. We'll see. It's a pretty tough one. And there there are a lot of you know random races that I have kind of you know planned out uh that I may or may not do. So um we'll see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Do you think you'll go back to Broken Arrow this year? Just because I feel like that was uh kind of a learning process for you. But damn, dude, you catch it on a good day and like you're right up there in the mix. Like it would be it would be cool because that's a that's a great opportunity for someone like you as well.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Yeah, I definitely plan on going back to to broken arrow to just to do the the vertical race this time. Yeah, very cool. That 23k? Wow, that sucked. Really? I what didn't you like about it? Well, I just didn't have a good day on the 23k, you know, just didn't film myself, and so like I was I wasn't even gonna do the 23k after that, but then I was like, you know what, I'm here, might as well just you know, man up and do it. But wow, it was just it did not end, felt terrible, sucked, and yeah, so not very interested in doing that one again.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Okay, all right. It's interesting to me because like I've I've noticed like you uh style-wise, I don't know, like it's not like I don't know, I never thought they were particularly technical courses, but it is long, it is a long race, and if it's not going well on some of those climbs, it can be very grindy. So I I definitely feel yeah, I feel you on that for sure. How they change the courses. Um yeah, Broken Arrow is fun. I don't know. It's a cool festival too. Like everybody's out there. Is there anything you uh I don't know, anything that interests you, like overseas, like like racing in Europe and stuff like that? Like if let's say the trail team becomes an opportunity for you, would you do like a because it's super long, would you do like a series and all or something like that, or would you keep it to more like maybe vertical races across across Europe if you could get out and do that?

SPEAKER_01 50:59

To be honest, I have no idea. I don't even really I don't really even know what's out there. Okay, all right. So whatever you just said, that sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

I mean, I like it, dude. It's the people that don't know that usually wound up doing the best. So I yeah, it's it's it's that night naivety, I guess. So yeah, cool, dude. Well, listen, man, we're at about 50 minutes now. Um I think this was a great first conversation. Definitely looking forward to seeing you around. I hope I bump any circle series race this year, or maybe broken arrow if you are there. Uh maybe we'll do like a pre-race interview or post-race interview or something like that. But um, you know, I'm really looking forward to oh, actually Sunnipee.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

If you go to Sunnipe, we'll we'll talk then. Um are you commentating again at Sunnepe?

Cycling Ambitions And KOM Hunts

SPEAKER_00 51:45

Yeah, I'll commentate Sunni P. I don't know. I'm probably will be there like in person this time. Uh I'm still working out some stuff. Um, but I'll be racing a bunch of circ races this year. I'll probably be, I've never raced Snowbird, so I'll probably go do that one. That one's high on the list. Of course I haven't seen before. I've done like Alta before. Um probably a few other circ races. Uh I'll be at the Rut, which I'm excited to go do. It's kind of technical and fun, so that'll be a little bit different. So stuff like that. I'll be around. So we'll we'll definitely bump into each other. Um if you do Targy, I'll be there as well, probably.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Yeah. I asked because at Sunopee this last year. Um I I looked back over the you know the the live stream and it was hilarious because nobody knows knew who I was, and you and the other two uh uh women on the that were you know commentating the video. Okay, yeah, yeah. Did they know who you were? But it was like, who's this guy in the red shirt? Who is that? Uh Brian Atkinson. Yep, it's for sure Brian. And then five seconds later, it's like, who's the guy in the red shirt? And I don't know. I went through and like made a I split, you know, every got a little segment of every time. And there's like 10 different times where it's like, who is this guy? It's super funny.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

So dude, I'm so sorry. I feel like I should have should have known better.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

No, after this conversation, hopefully you'll you'll recognize me. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

I know the face now, so it it's uh it's it's hard to I'm surprised I didn't realize that after Snowbird. I should have known that, like after following that race, but yeah, sometimes it's hard. Everybody's got a different bib on. It's easy for like Christian, right? Because he's got a mullet and a mustache, right? That that person or Dan, like Dan's easy, easy, easily stands out because he's tall. So it's always hard to pick certain people out. But you've I can't remember. I guess you were racing in red this time around. Usually it would been racing in a different singlet, the one that I had seen you in. I think it was at uh uh I think you raced pikes in a different in like that blue, it was like a blue singlet or something like that. So yeah, I don't know. Maybe you gotta pick a color, let me know ahead of time. Uh but Zach, I I really appreciate it, man. Thank you so much for the time. Uh always great conversation. And uh, dude, I'm really excited for where you're if you choose to continue on and do this. Like I think there's tremendous opportunity for you in this space, and I really look forward to what you'll be able to do.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. Those are some kind words. I don't know if they're true, but they're they're very nice. Want to see it happen. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, see ya. What did you guys think? Oh man, a big fan of Zach's. I cannot wait to see where his future is going to take him in the sport. Uh, just a uh cool personality and someone that I think is uh has immense talent to uh move the sport forward. And uh yeah, we've already seen him perform in some pretty big uh pretty big areas um both at at both U.S. mountain running championships he's raised at. So uh the sky is the limit for this kid. Uh guys, the best way you could support him, give him a follow on Instagram. Um you can find him at Zach Z-A-C-H Ericsson. That's E-R-I-K-S-O-N. It's gonna be linked in the show notes. Give him a follow. Let him know what you guys thought about the episode. I'm sure he would appreciate to hear from all of you. Um and yeah, I uh definitely uh appreciate you guys following along and listening. If you have been enjoying the podcast, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you consume your podcast. We'd super appreciate that. Lots of big news coming down the pipeline that one of these days I'm gonna be able to uh finally talk about. Um I can't believe it's already March. Kind of crazy that we've been doing this for two years now. So appreciate you guys. Have a great rest of your week.