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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#165 - Josh Potvin
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The path from a bumpy summer to a national kit isn’t straight, and that’s exactly why this conversation hits. We sit down with Canadian trail standout Josh Potvin to unpack a season that tested his patience, his calf, and his mindset—then set him up to go bigger. From the rocky, runnable rhythm of Canfranc to the endless descent of hard-packed switchbacks, Josh explains how terrain specificity can scramble podium math and why wearing your country’s colors feels different than chasing points in a sponsor kit.
We open up the hood on support and systems. Josh draws a clear line between the deep coaching staffs of European programs and the leaner setups in North America, and he points to real steps Canada is taking to invest smarter between championship years. Then we get tactical. After years with marathon ace Dylan Wykes, Josh moved to coach Matt Daniels to match his growing ultra focus. The shift isn’t about exotic workouts—it’s about less weekend stacking, more weekday substance, and a simple schedule change that’s paying off: morning quality runs, late work starts, and consistency that compounds. Toss in a nutrition reset with a dietitian—hydration habits, gut training, and enough calories when it counts—and you get a foundation built for longer days.
With that base set, Josh lays out what’s next: a return to the fast, deceptively painful Chuckanut 50K and a leap to Canyons 100K, where the goal is to execute, learn the distance, and see what disciplined pacing can do. We also look ahead to the Canadian Championships at Quebec Mega Trail, the Golden Trail stop elevating the Eastern scene, and why keeping the late-summer calendar loose might be the smartest competitive edge. If you care about trail strategy, life–training balance, and the quiet mechanics that turn “fit” into “ready,” this one’s for you.
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Welcome And Season Setup
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to this Deep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello. And today I'm so excited to welcome Josh Potvin back to the show. Multiple time returner. Excited to catch up with Josh. We were supposed to get one on the calendar after Worlds to kind of debrief his world experience for the second time. I did get a chance to put one on there, so excited to finally have this conversation. Talk about his experience for the second time at the World Mountain Running Championship, where he competed for Team Canada in the short trail. And yeah, kind of talk about his plans for 2026. He's going to be racing in just a few weeks at the Chuck and Nut 50K, which is a staple of the Pacific Northwest racing scene. Very excited to see what he's going to do there, having already had some successful races. And yeah, just excited to have him back on. So without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one. Josh is a uh I'm a big fan of his and uh can't wait to see what his 2026 season unfolds with. So without further ado, Josh Potfin. All right, Josh Pothin. Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man? Hey, James, good to hear you from you. Yeah, man. Good to catch up. It's been a little bit. I feel like uh we like the last time we might have spoken, was it before World or Speed Goat? One of the two. It might have been before Speed Goat.
SPEAKER_00I think it was before Broken Arrow, actually, maybe. Was it Broken Arrow?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, possibly, yeah. Summer, it all just summertime together. Everybody, uh it's funny. Like I'm trying to get the lineup of like people to do for pre-race interviews. I'm like, damn, I can't have Josh on three times. He's probably sick of talking to me. And it's so I try space about a little bit, you know, for uh you know, for the audience.
SPEAKER_00I love chatting to you. It's great. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah. Well, how's it going? It's uh I'm excited to have you have you back on. I know there's been a lot of changes and uh that you've been you know kind of working through this year, which is great. And then on top of that, I do want to talk about worlds. I feel like that was kind of I a lot of the athletes, um, you know, I always like to hear their personal stories and and all the things that happened and went down at worlds and feel like those need to be told. So there's there's plenty to talk about in this conversation.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Look forward to it.
2025 Recap And Injuries
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So all right, we could drop into uh well, the audience already knows you, you've been on a few times. So maybe let's just hop right back into kind of your reflections on 2025. I know you you said you were supposed to end the season capping it off with Pacific Trails, but that got um that got cancelled. You had uh not your favorite race, probably a broken arrow, came back and had a pretty decent finish at Speed Go, uh, and then went and competed at Worlds. As far as the season goes, like what did you think? Reflecting back, like uh excited for 2026? Were you you know, kind of like where do you stand on looking back on 2025?
SPEAKER_00I'm uh yeah, I'm I'm pumped for 2026 and everything I got planned. My my 2025 year, I can't say I wasn't pleased. I was, I was happy with I had a really good start. I had a definitely a bumpy summer with uh a calf injury at Broken Arrow that really just lingered all the way up until worlds. It's just one thing after another. So it was it was definitely hard to string together a consistent training block, which was frustrating. But you know, I managed to make it there, which was kind of remarkable. I think for a lot of athletes that late in a season, you know, it was late September, you're doing a ton of mountain running. Uh just getting there together in one piece was was the goal, and I did that. So um I'm pleased with that. Uh a little bit, yeah, a little unfortunate about Pacific Trails. It was my goal to get into UTMB for 2026 didn't happen. Um that was kind of my last you know kick at it, unfortunately. You know, it got canceled three days before and uh just the yeah, I had to change mind. So um definitely an uh like I said, like a not very climate uh anticlimatic end to the season, but it put me into a good point to take a step back, recover, and and reset for the 2026 year, which has been going well so far.
SPEAKER_01Nice, nice. So yeah, yeah, dude, you told me you got the flu too. I feel like everybody's got the flu, dude.
SPEAKER_00Jesus. It's brutal. Yeah, I was over the whole Christmas, it was a good week. I was in bed, it was bad. Um, so that set that set me back a bit, but it was, you know what, it's it was at a time during off season, I was able to, you know, take that as extra rest and maybe use that to my advantage. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh all right, dude. Let's let's let's backtrack, let's get into worlds. Because I feel like that's that's a big part of the convo that I I wanted to get into was your story there. Obviously, you went to go represent Team Canada on the short trail. What do you think, man? Like how how was your experience? Like, how would you how would you rate that? Like one to ten and and did you have a good time?
SPEAKER_00And give me give me the low down there. So this is my second time on uh the Canadian team going to world. So I feel like I got the nervous jitters out of the way, and I approached it much differently than the first one. I was I went there thinking, okay, you know what, I'm gonna make the best of everything, whether that's you know meeting athletes, uh, you know, uh checking out the the area a little bit more. Um, versus the first worlds, I was, you know, I was stressed. It was like a new experience, racing against the world's best and kind of more fixated on the on the day. And I kind of pulled that pressure back a bit, which I think really helped. Um and I really enjoyed like the experience, I would say it was more than a 10. It was it was phenomenal. The course is beautiful, uh, very challenging, of course. Um if you're yeah, if you're familiar at all, I can touch base on that, but if you like. But yeah, very technical course, uh, both both vertical-wise and footing-wise technicality. Um, but it made for you know just an incredible, credible race.
SPEAKER_01What did you all right? Let's let's get into that course because that course was nasty, dude, from what I hear. It was it was fun. It was a good good mix of technicality. Did you feel like where you're based at? Was it easy to prepare? Did you have a lot of similar technical stuff that you could do to kind of get ready for a race like that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I feel like the terrain there is is pretty unique, like the rockiness to a lot of it. And I did a lot of training in Squamish, BC, which is probably the closest we have, and and some pretty technical trails we have in in that area in British Columbia. So I spent a lot of time there leading up to it, which I think prepared me really well. Like we had very I actually was anticipating steeper terrain on the course than it was, um, which is shocking. Like looking at the profiles, like, oh, this looks scary. But so I trained on some pretty steep technical train in Squamish and going there, I didn't find it. It was like very runnable. Uh, there was definitely some technical descents, but overall, like not as steep as I as the profile led me to think originally, which was interesting. Interesting. What about the 10 million switchbacks?
SPEAKER_01Like closer to was it closer to the end? Or I just heard people complaining about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, at the end. Yeah, that's maybe that's why there's so many switchbacks. But you know what? I didn't mind it. You can run down them and uh the like it wasn't very technical on the switchbacks. It was like a hard-packed gravel route down. So uh nothing to complain about other than it's just a long, long, miserable way to the finish. You can like see it and hear it the whole way down, and you're just like, it won't end. Uh but you know what I was I was like feeling pretty decent the whole way. Like I just had like I didn't have the best day, but I had like a really consistent race the whole way, and it led to like a consistent result. Like not a not a result I'm super stoked about, but a consistent result that I can walk away from being like I put everything in into it and can be somewhat happy with it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, dude, Team Canada from a holistic perspective did pretty damn well. I mean, you guys like I mean, uh it was really cool to see like uh Emica Clark and just everybody, you know, for Team Canada kind of come in.
SPEAKER_00The women, the women from Team Canada did really well, I should say. They they rocked it. They kept they kept the men's team not uh looking too miserable. But yeah, the women's team all around, they just was phenomenal. Like the the performances uh from the sh the short course, long course, classic, vertical. Yeah, every every women athlete that was on that team just absolutely pulled it together, which was just such a great experience to be a part of. Um, and it's just showing the level of talent that is coming from Canadian athletes, and hopefully next year we can show that the the men's side is bringing that too. It just we need to you know pull it all together on race day.
Switchbacks, Consistency, And Team Results
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Let me ask you this, and I don't know how much conversations there there's been after the fact, but like there's a lot of Canadian stars now, you know, a lot of like just amazing lights out athletes. When you and I talked, it might have been in in the previous conversation or the conversation before that was just around Canada. And do you think there will be more investment into world teams like this? Because I had spoken to Jackson Cole, right? Who's in these who's from New Zealand, and he was just kind of a little frustrated with the way like New Zealand as far as um just paying for things and helping them out and giving more investment into the team. Do you think Canada um will be investing more potentially in the future in into this team and and just helping? Because the I feel like trail running not only now is at such a larger stage, it's growing immensely. But Canada, I mean, with more investment, like you guys are right there, you know, competing for medals.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a good question. Um I think it's always gonna, it's always like the support is always gonna be like we want we need more. That's gonna be what athletes are always gonna be pushing for because it it isn't a lot in as Canadian athletes. Uh, but I have been noticing like really good progress from the the Canadian athletics uh organizing team and just asking the right questions and like meeting up with athletes post-race to really understand what's working, what's not. Um also trying to understand well in the in the gap years between those world years, where could where could the funding go to really support athletes when they return to the world year, right? Because it happens every two years. So they are starting to think about that and understand how they can put their funding in a way that's gonna support athletes in between those years. So I think there it's hard, it's a hard answer to it's hard to answer that clearly, but um there is movement, I think. And I the having the women's team on the podium and the results we had this year just shows the level of talent that we're bringing that uh backs that up, right? So I think we're gonna see more support to Canadian, the Canadian athletes moving forward.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. I mean, dude, I mean you can even look. America, same thing. Um, you know, I know there's a big push internally here to try and get more for these athletes and push things further. Because it's crazy. I mean, you can you can speak to this, having been there firsthand, just the level of commitment from France and Spain and Italy and how it's just a completely different playing field for how much they're putting into their teams.
Funding, Support, And International Gaps
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's not it's not even comparable, right? And I think some of the like for us, and it's nothing on our on our Canadian athletics organization, we don't have as many coaches traveling with us. We have uh three. And you know, some of those teams have you know five or six, like it's crazy how many they have, right? Five or six. And even at the aid stations, they're so dialed in uh in terms of support, what their athletes need, and it just makes the biggest difference if you if you're competing for one of those top spots, right? You you need that that support from your your team.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, no doubt. And I think, well, I mean, we'll see. 2027's right around the corner. It'll be here before you know it. We'll be older, and and here it goes. You know, it's uh it's crazy how to fast time flies. But yeah, South Africa is gonna be uh I I know a lot of people are already talking about it. So Yeah, I'm excited for that. So news cycle is yeah, it's crazy. Uh, what'd you think of uh Con Frank? Did you like the area, like the food and the culture? Uh it must have been really fun to get to enjoy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we went early. So it was like 10 of us. We went early. We rented this villa. It was like a house with a pool, and we had a great 10 days in Confranc before uh we're actually saying Villanua. It was just outside of Canfranc. Um but just explore the trails, relaxed every day. The food and coffee is great. Like there's like you could I could spend, I could go back and just spend a month there and explore those trails. Like I just feel I feel like the hard part when you're going for such a big race, you are the goal was to course recon. So I got to see that, see a few other trails, but there are just so many trails there that you can spend a long time exploring. And uh I wish I had more time.
SPEAKER_01When I when I think of you, this is a question I meant to ask you earlier as far as like uh getting ready for a race like this. When I think of you, I think of like racing like Broken Arrow or something or like Gorge, where it's a fast runnable race, but still vert, right? I think of worlds and I think of more guys using poles and stuff like that. Did you did you adapt the poles for for a race like this or did you go to no polls?
SPEAKER_00I went no poles. I was on the the fence of should I bring them or not? But after seeing the course, uh so I I saw the whole course before the race, I didn't think it would benefit me over that distance. The first climb was so fast uh and runnable and knew it was gonna be jam-packed with people that you using poles would be awkward. Potentially using them near the end might have helped, but I just I just found like it just wasn't worth it for me. And I feel like that was it was a mix. Most people probably weren't using poles from what I could tell.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's an interesting trade-off, right? Like I yeah, it's uh and if you like some people can know know how to use them really well. And if I guess they can use them to your benefit, then I guess it makes sense. Like the the the more of the European guys like absolutely crush on some of the steeper stuff with it, but yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_00I don't train a lot with poles personally, um, which I should a little bit more, but it's just also finding the right terrain. It's not easy to find those long climbs that a yeah, you'd actually want to pull up the poles for. Yeah, it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um, so all right, so overall cool experience. I'm glad you enjoyed it. And like, I mean, dude, it's uh yeah, I feel like this year more than ever, it continues to push forward as like our uh obviously UTMB is a big deal. It's the big show, it's our de facto world championship, if you will. But I think world showed up in a big way to where more sponsors are interested, more people are on board, more people followed it. Um, you know, I'm very curious to see how 2027 plays out. Because I think if if the train keeps rolling in that direction, it'll be um, you know, one step closer to whatever people want to make it, whether it's the Olympics or or whatnot, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that'd be great. You know, like having the world's race is the pinnacle race of the year, and um it will pull away from maybe some of those other big UT and B races, but it is it is a moment where all the athletes could compete on a course that sometimes is not it's like different. It's like there's a fair advantage, right? Like some you might I run have raced on that on that those courses before, so I think it's really exciting. Yeah.
Travel, Culture, And Gear Choices
SPEAKER_01What did you think about it being an all-elit race? Is that a little weird? Because like you're usually most races we race, it's everybody, right? This one's a little bit different where it's it's less people, but everybody is fighting for that spot ahead of you, you know?
SPEAKER_00Right. Like in terms of yeah, like it is gonna take less of maybe the top in the world because you can only have you know six of each country. Um yeah, that's an interesting question. Um I think I think it it I actually really enjoy it. I think it I generally the teams that are sending are sending their best athletes. Um does that mean they're gonna be the best on that day? Probably maybe, maybe not, but I think it does it there's a pride you also wear with it too. Like when you get to travel for your for your country and represent your country. Um it's it's really impactful, I think. So I think it's it's it's a little bit different than traveling for you know for your sponsor and and racing on your own. Um it's it's really special to be able to to travel around and and race against other countries and and represent your country the best you can. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The results were interesting too, man. This is something I was thinking about. Like, had it been in South Africa, like it might have been a very different race, or had it been in a different part of Europe. Very because like Fred Trenchard won, like a lot of skyrunners seem to have performed extremely well on that course.
SPEAKER_00Definitely, yeah. And and speaking to like some of my friends, like Kayleigh McChrystal, who you uh who just won a big race in College. Yeah, great, awesome, that's good. Um, she would say that's not even close to skyrunning race, and which is fair, right? Like it's not that technical and it's not skyrunner like, but to a lot of maybe a lot of athletes who don't run in that type of terrain, it would be very it's very challenging, and you're not gonna see the same athletes performing on that course. Um Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It makes it interesting, you know, like it's uh like I don't know, it comes up to you know, the course specificity really uh, you know, I don't know, plays a role in in how that stuff works. And maybe not the the most fit person, but the person who is best on that terrain is gonna do do the best. And I I like how that levels the playing field a little bit more, whereas like it doesn't have to just be a straight up, you know, whoever's the fittest person on the day is gonna win. It's not very fun, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a lot of variability on the whole course, and there is there's opportunities for running, there's opportunities for technical, like there's a lot of mix. There there's more steep terrain in the world's courses historically from what I've been noticing in the last couple of years. Um like you know, for almost 4,000 meters over 40k is a lot. Um it's not insignificant, so that's becoming almost like the standard, right? So it'd be intri I'm not sure what the uh South Africa race looks like, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Which is cool. I dude, I I really I I kind of want to go there and cover it at that point. I feel like it would be kind of dope. I've never been to South Africa, seems like a neat place. Different Cape Town?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just culturally different. You can go go do the um off the trail cap. Yeah, UTCT is like the week before.
SPEAKER_01And uh I don't know. Could be could be fun, could be fun. Uh all right, let's shift gears a little bit. I'm gonna talk about one of the things you had mentioned to me uh in the lead up to our conversation uh was a coaching change. You've made some changes in the offseason, and you're seems like you're very stoked on 2026. Um yeah, maybe talk about because I I feel like this is a maybe a taboo conversation that not a lot of people have, and people get kind of cagey about maybe making a coaching change and stuff like that. But when it comes down to the athlete, like to keep things fresh, I think it's a very natural uh conversation to have, and it's a very natural thing to do. I've changed coaches many times in my career, um, and I think a lot of people do. So maybe talk about you know what kind of pushed this change and and what kind of changes in maybe your training that you're doing now.
Coaching Change And Training Philosophy
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so my I previously was working with Dylan Wykes, and I was working, and Dylan's a like a road marathon runner, and I've been working with him since 2017, uh, which is a long time. Uh that's a relationship right there. So uh and he's like my best friend, and I've known him since university uh racing um at Queens. And the you know, I chatted to him a bit about this, about you know, I'm pr I'm I'm shifting more to these longer ultra distances. And um Dylan's been so accommodating to adapt his, you know, he's he's reading books, he's learning for me, and I'm really stretching him. I know, I know he's doing everything he can to get the program right. And I it was a phenomenal time working with him. Um I just I just found, you know, leading into 2026, I think it for me it was like, okay, let's try, let's see if there's different, like you said, different adaptations and a different training method that maybe a different perspective could bring that can, you know, really unleash the next the next thing that uh you know to reach my goals. So that was kind of what led to the shift for me. Um and I'm currently now working with Matt Daniels, um which has been has been like um for me, I always try and find coaches that like I that I can like like I look up to in a way as well. So like Dylan, um, like I've known for a long time and looked up to him as an athlete. Matt is the same way, like you know, we're not far off in age. Um, and I really admire how he can transition from all these different Distances from you know the mile to all the way up to to 100 mile. And it's it's his range is so impressive. And I felt like his uh coaching philosophy would really align with my background. Um, some of the changes um has actually been not huge shifts, but I think what I've been finding has been working really well is is uh um not just stacking my weekends with big mileage and having bigger days throughout the week. So I'm really focusing on that aerobic base right now as I lead into my first hundred K in this April. So uh that's gonna be a new distance for me. Uh so he's really, you know, really focusing on getting me set to for that uh in in April. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_01How how has it been with um especially now trying to train for something that's a bit longer? A lot, it's a lot of time on feet, a lot of mileage, and you're a professional also in your own right with what you do with your day job. Is it hard to balance all of those things?
SPEAKER_00You know what? This um it is, but I've been trying to like find new ways to make it work better for me. So what I've done, what I'm doing this year is uh Tuesdays to Thursdays, I've gotten permission from work to start my day at 10 30. Nice. So I get all my training done in the morning, um, and then I work a little bit later in the evening to make up that time. And that has been that consistency is actually what I think is making such a huge impact um to my training and being able to every day not feel tired for the workout, like I'm I'm hitting it fresh, uh properly feeled, have time to stretch after and and do all the rehab, and then I go into work and then I can like focus, and then the the run is not lingering over my head over my brain all day. And by time the end of the day, I'm tired, I don't have to go for a run. So it's actually it's been very strong for me. I think it's gonna be the difference for me this year is that consistency.
Work–Life Run Balance And Data Use
SPEAKER_01It's funny, man. I was on my workout today on the track and I was thinking about this. I I work East Coast hours, uh, but I'm based in Colorado, so I can like sneak out around like 10 a.m. to get like an hour to two hours in. And I was thinking about like, man, if you had to go, I I do like I have a lot of friends I just don't envy that like get off their workday at 5 30, 6 o'clock, and then they got to go put in the miles. And I just wonder, like, how much are you leaving on the table after a full workday? And if you're able to stack that earlier in the day when you're a little bit fresher, how much more better adapted you will be and just kind of more gains that you can get from that. I mean, obviously, it's tough. Everybody's got certain circumstances that they're trying to pull, you know, that that they're they gotta do, you know, it is what it is. But just if to make those little changes, like you said, you're made, like I I think like makes goes a long way.
SPEAKER_00Oh, definitely. And and running's all about consistency, right? Like that is that is what's gonna make you race strong on race day, is if you can be consistent. Whether I the whether that one work that you do or don't is not gonna make the difference. It's gonna be, you know, those several leading up to the race. So my schedule now is super consistent. Like when I eat, when I sleep, it all is very similar every day. It's not changing. So that is gonna that's what's really, I think, having the the best impact on me.
SPEAKER_01I love it. Dude, Matt's a great coach. I've had quite a few athletes on, I mean, including Matt, I've had him on the podcast, and I've had quite a few of his athletes that he's coached on the pod. Everyone has amazing things to say, and and he he just seems to, I don't know, he's one of the few, because you you notice a lot of professional athletes get in the sport and they'll have their coaching business. And you know, some of some of them are great, and some of them are well, it's it's it's just a side hustle to try and make, you know, try and make ends meet to do their thing. And Matt is one of the few, dude, that like I think he really is very good at what he does. Like just very dialed. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've only been work I think it's week six now, seven maybe. Uh, but I've already noticed like he's like how like how dialed he is and how he thinks about everything and uh how he follows up on every workout. I shouldn't I I want to like overpromote him, but it's like maybe he doesn't want that. But he's yeah, he's incredible. Like it's like um I would highly recommend him to anyone. Yeah. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_01What are you guys as far as um are you are you more like a heart rate-based athlete, or you do like more rate of perceived exertion now that you're doing some of these longer distances?
SPEAKER_00Um I've I've used heart rate a lot. I have I just wear like a chorus armband. I've used it a lot just to like make sure that I'm not. It's so hard on the trails, like just making sure you're getting the right effort. But I also don't want to just I don't rely on it. So, you know, if I'm feeling good, I'm gonna push a little harder. But on an easy day, I find it's also really helpful just to make sure I'm not over overrunning myself on those easy days. Um so I d I generally like to base off of heart rate, but it's I think it's really important to not be overfixated on all the data all the time. It can be distracting, and sometimes you're leaving things on the table if you're over-reliant on it.
Nutrition Habits And Gut Fixes
SPEAKER_01So yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I've I've been having this debate with a lot of people lately on RPE versus uh um like just heart rate training and just like kind of what works for which athlete. And it's just so very, very different because you know, I've had a lot of people on the podcast that are come from like Nordic skiing backgrounds and they're like obsessed with heart rate. It's like the thing. Um, versus ultra traditionally, like a lot of the ultra coaching is a lot of it's derived from rate of prestige like RP. And uh I feel like maybe that background comes from like CTS and some of like the uh the folks coaching out of there who have been doing it forever. And so it's just interesting to see what methodologies you know kind of work and what different athletes kind of deploy in in their training. Yeah, yeah, it's uh thanks. Yeah. Um one of the things that we talked about last time, and now that we're I don't know, maybe we're like a uh closer to a year on this, is you were working with a dietitian um and helped you a ton. Have you now been able to see more of the long-term like positive gains from that as far as like in your training? And because I feel like that's one of those things too, can have immediate impacts, but also long-term can play a massive role in performance.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's that's a good point. Yeah, like it's um I was working with uh Carol Ann for quite a while, uh, and still occasionally uh we'll meet up to make sure things are still in check before races. Um, and I think the long-term consistency is what's helped me get a lot of gut issues I I was having a couple years ago under control. So I'm you know not having as many stomach distress and running or arriving to workouts fatigued because you know I didn't eat enough that day. Um, so because I built that routine and that consistency, it took a bit to to make sure I'm drinking water. Like I have a water bottle with me now, which I never used to do. Like those. Yeah, there you go. Matching bottles, yeah. But that's it, right? Like those are the things you need to do if you want to train at at this level, right? Which you understand and it's so important. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, all right, let's let's swift gears. I want to talk to you. Let's get into the season, the season we plan. So you said you had 100k coming around uh the corner. Gorge Waterfalls? What are you running? Because I looked at your ultra setup and I didn't see anything wrong there.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I'm doing Chuck and Ut first again. So I'm returning there. It's my third time going back to Chuck and I love that race. Uh just crossed the border, it's close. Um, I was considering doing Big Alta, uh, but the travel, I I was like, okay, no, Chuck and Ut would be a little bit closer and a little less travel. So um hope the goal is to get on the podium this this year, like fifth, fifth lot uh two years ago, six the three years ago. So I'm just hovering around that podium spot, which I you know that's the goal for me. And then building up to uh Canyons 100k in April. Ooh, all right, all right.
SPEAKER_01Is this like throwing your name in the hat with the a goal of if you get a golden ticket to go to Western States? Is that like a like a like a goal?
Race Plans: Chuckanut And Canyons 100K
SPEAKER_00Or Matt asked me, he's like, so if you got a golden ticket, would you go? And I said, definitely. Like I wouldn't turn it. I but to be honest, I just want to get through 100k. Um like I haven't I haven't raced over 55, so it's gonna it's double the distance, but maybe not double the time. I've done some longer races, um, like even like Speed Goat is a longer time on feet uh race. So I I feel like the time on feet is a little bit shorter for that hundred gundk compared to others, that it felt like a suitable one to do. Um I've been I did Canyons 50k a few years back, so I'm familiar with the area, the course, uh parts of that course, which I found might be a beneficial uh option for me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I feel like it's a great race for someone like you to get get ready for, right? Like it's especially living in the PNW, um, you know, with the exception of whether it's a crazy hot day or something like that, where obviously you can do different things to try and get ready for that. But when it comes to the runnable stuff, you don't have to worry about altitude. It's it's just an easier thing to kind of prep for, um, you know, compared to, I don't know, like speed goat or something like that. That's gonna be a completely different beast, you know.
SPEAKER_00Totally. Yeah. The conditions are easy, easier to simulate here in in British Columbia, minus maybe the heat if it happens. So I'll definitely be working on that leading up to it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I can't remember. I know Matt's obviously done a gazillion golden ticket races, but uh I'm sure he has. And I think he's he's had a lot of success on the 50k course. I can't remember if he's running the 100k, but yeah, I feel like you've got you're in good hands when it comes to uh someone kind of teaching on the ropes on to go out there for that 100k.
SPEAKER_00Totally, yeah. And a big reason why I thought of him as a coach, because he's he's had experience on a lot of these races that I'm interested in doing. And you know, having that experience is so helpful, right? To help you train for that specific race. So it's really important to modify your training for that for the course specifically. For sure.
SPEAKER_01Can can you talk a little bit about Truckinaut? Because I feel like that's a that's a really cool race that I don't think gets enough love from like maybe in the Pacific Northwest there's a lot of following of it, but like I think outside of it folks are e either know about it or don't. And I think it's it's a really cool course. Last year I heard was bananas. I remember Jasmine talking about like getting a hypothermia, which sounded horrible. So maybe, maybe talk about talk about it a little bit. And uh Yeah, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_00I I always thought it was more well known, so it's uh from at least from American athletes. So it's interesting to hear you say that. Um it is it's a fast 50K. Like it's uh the first 10K and the last 10K are on a gravel path that is basically flat. Um, like roadshoes, super shoe if you want, it would be suitable for that course for the first 10k and last 10k. The and then the middle 30 is um a bit of climbing. I think it's 15 to 1800 meters. Um so it's not extensive, it's not a lot of climbing, but it's it's all packed within that middle 30k. And again, very runnable, not very technical. There's a ridgeline that's a few kilometers, that's probably the most technical component of that entire race, but it's it's pretty short. Um, but you can like for me in the year I raced it, that's kind of where I made my move and caught you know a few athletes and was able to really really put myself in good position in that race. Um, and then the like coming down to the finish, um, the last, you know, it's it's a fast 10k finish down a path. So, you know, you if when your legs are hurting, that's actually quite hard. You definitely need to make sure you have enough in you to be able to turn over uh under three 330, 320k is like you're gonna be flying that last last 10k. Oh wow. So it's it dude, it's a fun, fast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the way I think about it, and maybe I'm just negligent, but like I think of uh like way too cool being a super another super fast like 50k that's like kind of in within that time frame. I think that one happens in April or something like that. So around that time. So I always thought of them mentally kind of in the similar uh vibe. Dude, I love the finisher scarves you guys get, like the the it's like the these cool white like finisher scarves. I don't know, they look kind of neat.
What Makes Chuckanut Fast
SPEAKER_00So oh a chu at Chuckana? Yeah, I think the best part about Chuckana is like, and I should have led with this, is like the the vent itself. Like it's a super grassroots race. Um I'm pretty sure you there's no elite entries. Like I've uh like they only my understanding is they only give like elite entries to people who've won the race. Um so maybe that's not true, but they are pretty they they're they're kind of community focused too, right? And but they get a good showing from uh you know the lead athletes. There's every year there's a good handful. Uh I'm not sure who's going this year. I know Matt was signed up, not sure if he's racing or not still, but um it every year gets a good good stellar show showing.
SPEAKER_01Okay. What kind of what kind of shoes would you wear for a race like that? Because you obviously that you said that it's very fast.
SPEAKER_00So it's yeah, like it's uh I think I think if you have a if you're racing with a carbon trail carbon, that's probably gonna be suitable and probably your best option. Anything that's got that's meant for speed really would be the best approach. Wow. All right. I'm excited to follow. And when is this one? This is April. Uh so Chuckinuts in three, three weeks, three and a half weeks.
SPEAKER_01March uh twenty-first. Yeah. Okay, cool, cool. Dude, how's the weather been in the PNW? Like our our weather in call right.
SPEAKER_00Nuts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, really dry. And you and the same for you, right? Oh, dude, it's been dry.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like we're all kind of wondering like when the when the snow is gonna come or any type of precipitation.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, for well, for us, we're used to the rain here. So it's actually kind of nice to have no rain all winter and and be able to run the trails rain free. It's a little unfortunate for the people who do a lot of skiing uh because there hasn't been a lot of snow here. It's been, yeah, it's been a really bad snow year. But yeah, super dry, which my skin does not like at all. But um the trails are like incredible right now, like the best they've ever been in the wintertime. Selfishly, I find it kind of feel the same way.
SPEAKER_01Like I'm like, whoa, you know, like winter, it wouldn't be that bad. Like hopefully, like when when May comes around, hopefully we just get dumped on and it's just raining every day. But yeah, it's not have a super cold winter, and it's it's been kind of nice. I mean, yeah, it's it's just weird. Like for dude, I think today it's like 65 degrees or 70 degrees. I don't know what that oh wow, yeah. It it's it's crazy. Um, and for so for that to happen in February in Colorado, it's like, what are we doing here?
SPEAKER_00It's like shorts, I feel.
SPEAKER_01I I'm in shorts in September. Yeah, I was on the track today in in a in a singlet. I was like, whoa, this is uh this is amazing.
SPEAKER_00Wow, incredible. Yeah, it is. That's uh that's scary, right? You see the world changing like that. It's like what's good, what's next?
SPEAKER_01That's true. That's very true. Um, I want to pivot back to uh Canyons, because that's I don't know, I feel like that's such a uh it's a cool opportunity, it's a cool race, it's a it's another like level up in that like far distance, like in the hundred K. So it's gonna be cool to see, you know, like what that's all about. Um yeah, what are your thoughts on it? Because like that's a it's just like kind of reaching out into the unknown. So I like these, you know, reaching out kind of uh goals that I don't know, it's a it's kind of pretty neat.
Weather Shifts And Training Conditions
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was definitely yeah, I'm definitely going into challenge myself here distance-wise. Like, like I said, it's double what I've done before, but I feel like I'm ready. Um, I think for me, the nutrition was was always in the back of my mind, like, okay, I need to sort that out to be able to do these longer distances. And I feel confident that that's not an issue anymore. And I can I will be able to excel at that hundred K distance now that I have that resolved. And my I'm not a really big high mileage athlete personally, but I also don't know if I necessarily need it. I guess we'll find out. But um, like I'm not doing hundred-mile weeks. I've never done one in my life, and a lot of athletes do. And um if I can one day, if I can work up to that, and if that helps me, great. But right now, like that's not that's not what I'm hitting. I'm a pretty lower, I'm probably considered a lower mileage athlete. So um maybe a little bit nervous from that perspective, just thinking of what that what that's gonna feel like. You know, there's gonna be a lot of new feelings uh deep into that race, and uh it's gonna be unknown. Like I have no idea. Um, but that's what I'm that's why I'm doing it. Yeah. Well, that's the cool part, right?
SPEAKER_01It's like you don't know how it's gonna feel. It's gonna probably be painful, but it's different. It's fun, it's new. It's just straight, it's like, I don't know. It's uh it's we know with shorter races, it's always gonna hurt, right? No, but there's no two ways around it. It's good, you're it's never, never great. Um so this one, yeah, I think this will be uh defin definitely pretty fun. Um what what else, dude? So what else are you thinking for the summer? Anything that you're you got your eye on that you know is an A or a B goal that you think you're gonna go to?
Stepping To 100K And Mileage Myths
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so depending on how recovery goes. Well, recovery, hopefully recovery goes well for that. I'll be jumping back in to get ready for the Canadian championships are in July at QMT. Oh, wow. So that's Quebec Mega Trail. Yeah. So we they always do their qualifiers for worlds the year before. So it's a little bit different than I think the American team does it. They do them you know, leading four months leading up to the race, which is always tight, right? So thankful that the Canadian team does it so early. And uh this year they're picking the team, I think early January. So everything's gonna be known at the beginning of the year. So I'm going to that, doing the short course there, which is the 50k distance. Okay. Um, so that hopefully, you know, get myself top three finished to get myself in the team again. Um and then I have a little bit of a gap in the summer. Uh I didn't get into UTMB. Um, I was contemplating um Sierra Zanal. Um Broken Out. Originally I was going to Broken Out go, but unfortunately, but I have a wedding that that weekend, and uh I much rather attend my friend's wedding than uh she's a really good friend of mine, so I really want to make sure I'm there for that. Um so hopefully we'll go back to Broken Broken Era in a future. Um so I after we're after the Canadian Champs, I really have a blank calendar, which is a little bit odd for me. Um but I have some races that I have in mind. I just haven't booked them in yet. Uh possibly Kodiak for the or ultra-tale Cape Town with the 50k distance. So I'm really trying to understand what which one I want to go to still. And I think I'll make a decision in a few weeks. But I mean that's an easy one, dude.
SPEAKER_01U TCT.
SPEAKER_00No offense to Kodiak, but yeah. Well, totally, right? It seems like such a and for it's gonna be I kind of wanted to get the experience going to going to see some of the course before worlds in 2027. Uh, I think there's advanced there's an advantage to that and big time. Get to travel to an incredible place and make a trip out of it. Um so yeah, I'm it's kind of a little empty, which is it's good though. Yeah, have a talk to Matt and get some tips. I think he'll he'll be helpful to shoot some ideas off of. It's freeing.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I always like the idea of like, you know, you have a few A goals that you throw in there, those are the big ones that you've had on the calendar for a while, and then the other stuff is like you show up, you know, rested and fit and dangerous, and nobody knows you're coming. It's uh totally it's kind of fun.
SPEAKER_00I really I really committed myself a lot last year, and I feel like I wanted to, yeah, set less less big A goals. I think I had too many last year, and I feel like this way I can really focus on those and and then respond to that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What do you think about uh I mean, like um Quebec Mega Trail? I mean, obviously you're not racing the the golden trail distance, but it's a really big deal. Canada has their first uh golden trail race uh on the world stage ever, which I I think is amazing. I mean, we really felt the Americans fumbled the bag. We were supposed to have one here too, and that didn't happen. But I think it's really cool that, especially in Quebec, because I, you know, a lot of the mountain races take place on the other part of the side, you know, other part of the country, but to have uh one in Quebec, I think is really cool, you know.
Canadian Champs, Golden Trail, And Calendar
SPEAKER_00Oh, totally. I think like, and that's a I feel like that's a a good race to have it at. Like there's always a ton of athletes racing there. Uh there's a lot of fast uh athletes, Canadian athletes in Quebec too, so it's nice for them to have something close to home. And you know, a lot of our big like champion Canadian championship races have been on the NBC recently, so it's actually quite nice to you know have this high profile event out in uh eastern Canada. So I think it's gonna bring a uh a good quality of athletes. I haven't decided if I'm obviously I'm going there to do the 50k, so I can't run the I can't run the other that course, but um it's a little unfortunate because it that would have been fun to do. I mean spectate too, but yeah. That's right.
SPEAKER_01I'll definitely do that. Maybe next year they'll they'll bring it back for the same year, which would be or for the same race would be kind of cool. Uh dude, and I just think it's neat that you guys have a golden trail series race and you're gonna have the WMRA final. Uh and D5 Day. I always butcher the pronunciation, but uh my French is not very Deli de Deli de Coule.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, my French is terrible.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, you just did it way better than I would have. Um which is an amazing race. Uh shout out to Julian. Um but yeah, I uh I think it's really cool that you guys have. know, golden trail race and a WRMA final, which is uh I mean it the the spotlight is on on you guys which is great now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's exciting. Are you gonna make your way down to any of those?
SPEAKER_01I think possibly in October. We'll see. There's a um this all air after uh the announcements made but there's a cool golden or there's a cool uh circ series race in October. I think it it over it hasn't been announced yet. It's a new circle. Right. Uh but it's gonna overlap with I know but and one is in California and one is in uh you know Quebec. So we'll see. I don't know. There's I do have business out there because I know Tom Hooper's been trying to get me out too to do because Kismit Cliff Run like the we have a the the United States Skyrunner situation going on now.
SPEAKER_00There's so many races man so I it's hard right it's so hard right there's just like every weekend there's another race and you want to do them all and you can't and it's hard to schedule a season now. And I it's hard to find the race that is you know competitive and where all the athletes go in. I feel like there needs to be a channel. Maybe there is but I'm not on it. I feel like I feel like there needs there needs to be a a channel where everyone communicates there needs to be something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I mean dude like it's even worse from the media side too because it's like oh are you gonna be like sponsors are like are you gonna be here are are you gonna be here I'm like no I'm gonna try I'm gonna try to but I don't think I'm gonna be able to do that. And it's like that push and pull while trying to be um you know you want to be selfish and like save your time and energy for your own racing but then on the media side it's like oh god I gotta be a broken arrow I gotta do this I gotta go do that. So yeah it's always uh it's complicated now it's uh I bet I bet it's not fun but yeah I mean it's a it's a privilege as always but I I would love to be in Quebec for um you know for I I I'm gonna butcher the pronunciation but I would be loved to be there for the Canadian champs. It would be very cool to follow along especially for uh you know the up down and the vertical would be neat and you know even being in Quebec would be kind of neat to go uh see the you know Quebec mega trail and kind of follow that as well. We'll see.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and it's uh I have actually I haven't done the race and I also really want to go do that that race. Um you know maybe it's something I'd change at the end of the end of the year and get some speed in and uh instead of running all these long 50Ks and uh support a a local race which is exciting too.
Too Many Races, Media, And Scheduling
SPEAKER_01Yeah no it'd be a good one. I know Julian's trying to pack the house with like cool athletes. Like he United were Texan the other day oh he's the best for it. Dude he's amazing. I gotta like he he's yeah amazing so yeah he uh he's always got good ideas and it's uh that race dude I'm telling you like that's uh as far as if athletes want in ra in America want to race international like look no further there's gonna be world class competition it's ran by amazing people yeah if you want to get like a and this is just a PSA like if athletes want to just get a good you know a good taste of what it's like uh you know for the international field go go race there you know I agree yeah yeah super cool well listen man I think we got uh this is a good catch up I uh you know what we'll do is uh especially before uh Canadian champs I'm gonna try to cover them uh we'll do some some uh maybe like a pre-race or something like that which would be kind of fun and dude I cannot wait to follow your race at Canyons like uh hopefully they have a live stream I'm gonna be cheering you on thank you we'll watch you suffer you're gonna have a great time yeah hopefully I come away with a golden ticket that'll be uh that'll surprise everyone but it'll be it'll be a great year dude hey man don't nothing nothing's impossible that's right that's right don't ever get into existence going for it awesome well Josh I really appreciate your time dude as always thank you and uh yeah can't wait for our next catch up all right thanks man yeah what'd you guys think oh man thanks so much to Josh for coming on the show always a great conversation wealth of knowledge and experience and uh yeah just excited to finally have a another chat with him and uh do our annual annual conversation wishing him the best of luck at Chuck and Nut as he takes on the Chuckin'ut 50k in uh no time at all. Um guys if you enjoyed this episode please give us a five star rating and review on Apple Spotify or YouTube that would be amazing. Got lots of fun stuff coming down the pipeline. Very last but not least the best way to support Josh is to give him a follow on Instagram you can find him at JJ Potvin great follow always talking about some of the things that he's up to whether it's racing or training and just really appreciate that. So have a great rest of your week and uh thanks so much,
