The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
#166 - Alex King, Founder of Terignōta
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You can feel the momentum from the first minute: a year after his last visit, Alex King returns with a bigger warehouse, a stronger brand story, and the same stubborn commitment to making trail running gear people can actually afford. We dig into the founder’s rollercoaster—$75k days, quiet slumps, and the steady routine that carries him through both—and why he refuses to chase competitors or rent attention with paid ads. Instead, Alex lays out a different model: build products that solve real problems, price them honestly, and publish your numbers so customers can see exactly where their money goes.
We go behind the scenes on the Valhalla vest, from months of sampling to a six-figure production leap that could have ended Terignōta if it flopped. Alex speaks openly about risk tolerance, Shopify loans, and the constant tension between perfecting a prototype and committing to scale. He shares how tariffs factor into decisions, why bandwidth is a finite asset, and how customer service—done with patience, ownership, and a human voice—can turn a tough email into a lifelong fan. We also explore his marketing stance: no Meta, no Google, no hype tax. The payoff is trust, community-led growth, and prices that don’t creep upward to feed an ad machine.
On the athletic side, Alex breaks down wins at Cirque Series Crystal and UTMB Whistler 100K, the mindset shift that helped him run free of external pressure, and the lingering realities of an old Achilles rupture that changed his body but not his ceiling. He previews restocks and launches—updated fleece with recycled polyester, a sun hoodie and long sleeve in testing, and half tights heading into production—while keeping the brand’s north star clear: useful design, fair pricing, and transparency that speaks for itself.
If you believe great gear shouldn’t require a second mortgage, or you’re wrestling with how to build a brand without selling your soul to ads, this conversation will stick with you. Subscribe, share with a friend who loves the trails, and leave a review to help more runners find the show.
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Welcome And Year-Later Catch-Up
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to this Deep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oreal Lowe, and I'm so excited to welcome uh Alex King back to the show, the founder of Terignota, about a year on uh this conversation, definitely a treat for you guys. Um, giant fan of Alex's, not just having been a competitor of his in the past, but also what he's doing with Terignota. Now that we're over a year uh into the business and you know, he gets into all of the good stuff. I ask a lot of questions on what it's like being a founder, the ups and downs, everything you guys want to know. Um, Alex is pretty candid and we get into it. You know, we we you really feel and learn about what it's like to bet on yourself. And uh, you know, you'll walk away from the episode just being such a fan of Alex's. So hope you guys enjoy this one. We also get into some of his athletic endeavors. Last year, Alex absolutely crushed it. Uh big win at Stark Series Crystal Washington and a another big win just a few weeks later, actually, at um UTMB Chr or uh UTMB Whistler 100k. So Alex is uh a killer on the uh on the trails as well. So without further ado, Alex King, the founder of Terragnota. Ladies and gentlemen, right, Alex King, founder of Teric Nota. Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_00Uh doing well. Thanks for uh thanks for having me back on. It's uh it'd be fun to catch up. And uh yeah, maybe I should have gone back and listened to the previous episode, but I feel like a lot has changed since then. Um so yeah, excited.
New Warehouse And Bootstrapping Realities
SPEAKER_01Dude, I thought the same thing. I was laughing today this morning on my rod. I went back and I listened to the first one. It was kind of we eerie, and I was telling you this before on the on the pre-show. Uh yeah, exactly year to the day, March 4th, which is uh the last time we chatted. So it's been kind of cool, man. It's been fun to follow from from afar as well, just like as a fan of the brand, as a fan of you. Um, you know, since then you've released a couple new products. Um, you know, your social media game's been on point. You've also won a few races, which is dope, and we'll talk about like it's things seem like they've been pretty good from afar.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's uh it all has bit felt like a bit of a whirlwind and like haven't had a lot of time to really like step back and be like, oh, this is like yeah, things are going well. Uh, because it's just like trying to keep up with the keep up with everything. But uh yeah, I think overall things are are uh going better than I could have ever expected. So I love it. I love it.
SPEAKER_01Are you still you're still based in Leavenworth, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, still in Leavenworth. Um I actually just signed a lease on a place in Cashmere, which is like 15 minutes down the road, uh, not for living, but for Terra Gnoda, which is uh a pretty exciting uh update or something.
SPEAKER_01That's breaking news, dude. That's amazing. The fact that the business is like self-sufficient enough that where you can you can take that leap of faith and now you're gonna have a space for it. Um, you know, because a lot of people when they're bootstrapping and trying to figure this thing out, it's like usually they're selling shit out of their garage or trying to figure it out that way. It's it's never an easy, an easy feeling. So that's gonna feel pretty good to be able to kind of take that leap of faith.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, totally. And I mean, right, so I started in this building that I'm in now, which is a just it's a building in downtown Leavenworth that uh it's an old hotel that I started with just went renting one room in here uh for like 400 bucks a month, and have slowly just been like texting my landlord, like, hey, any more rooms open? I need some more space for boxes. So I'm up to four rooms now. Uh, but they're like second and third story rooms with no parking and no windows. And it's just not, I mean, it's worked because it's cheap and I've made it work, but uh I'm very excited to to yeah, make the move to a bigger space, have like it'll it's a 400 uh 4400 square foot warehouse kind of deal, which is I don't know, infinitely bigger than I am now. And uh yeah, I'm really excited to like just build it all out and get going. Grow this thing.
Coping With Pressure And Volatile Sales
SPEAKER_01Yeah, continue to grow this thing. I gotta ask you a hard question off the bat. This is something I think about as a creator and as someone that's also in, I don't want to say a saturated market, but in a competitive market. Like podcasting is competitive, apparel is competitive. And just from founder to founder, like how do you deal with just like pressure and stress of like wanting this thing to work so bad? And then starting to see like little flashes of like success here and there. You'll take one step forward, two steps back. Like, can you talk about that and like how you deal with that as a as a founder?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um I think I mean, like every day I'm worried that tomorrow nobody will show up to the website and my sales will just go to zero and it'll all crash and burn. Which doesn't, I mean, if you think about it logically, it doesn't make any sense at all because like I don't know how many days exactly we've been in business, but some 400, 500, I have no idea. But yeah, thinking about it logically, it's like, well, that hasn't happened in the last 500 days, so why would it happen tomorrow? And it's like only been I mean, it's up and down all the time, but it's only been like doing better overall. So yeah, I mean I it scares me every day that it's for whatever reason people will just start hating Terra Gnoda tomorrow. But uh I think just like looking at uh the yeah, having faith in like the history of it and also there, I mean, there always is gonna be ups and downs. Like uh in in January we had a big restock of shorts and shirts, and we had one one day that we did$75,000 in sales, which is insane. That's legit. And like, but in other days we do like$500 in sales. Well, we actually haven't had well anyway. The point is we go up and down like a ton, and it like I I didn't I mean it was cool to see that huge day, but also like I knew that it was just like a blip and that tomorrow could be completely different, and I'm not gonna get like too down if it's a bad day, or too up if it's a good day, or like I'm just gonna like keep doing keep doing the thing, keep backing packages, keep like nothing changes in my day-to-day when we have a great well, I guess I have to pack a few more packages, but nothing really changes in my day-to-day when there's like huge ups or huge downs. I just keep doing the same thing and yeah, keep making it happen behind the scenes and like hoping that that will pay off in the future.
Playing A Different Game Than Competitors
SPEAKER_01I I see, I don't know, and this is just a thought. I think of like starting a business and starting whatever you're starting as a way of like, in a way, like starting up, showing up for your A race every day, in the sense where you can't be concerned about what others are doing, i.e., your competitors, you have to be concerned about what you're doing and the things that you're working on. Do you ever struggle with because I I struggle with this, like worrying about like, okay, like what are my competitors, what is Free Trail doing? What is this person doing? What is that person doing? Being reactive instead of proactive. How do you deal with that as a founder, especially being in a market where you're competing against so many, so many different brands?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh I I mean there's a bunch of things to this question, but I do I I do think one advantage Terra Gnota has is it feels like we're it kind of feels like we're playing in a different arena than most apparel brands. Like we make like it just feels like a different game completely. Like I'm not I'm not throwing a bunch of ads at people, I'm not like signing big contracts for athletes, I'm not uh like and we just have a inherent differentiation of price that's like a big differentiator, so yeah, it kind of feels like I'm not playing the same game, or at least that's what I tell myself to like make it feel less directly competitive. But on the other hand, I still I definitely still get like like I see other brands coming out with new products or uh yeah, like I definitely fall trap to like the marketing that other brands do of like how cool their new technology is and want to I don't know have that moment for myself. Um and I don't really know if there's like a great way that I'd deal with it other than just like saying like oh like what I'm doing it feels like a useful business and a cool thing and like I'm happy to be doing it. I don't need to go chase somebody else's project or game or like I just want to play my own game. I don't I don't need to go try to like jump into somebody else's and yeah. I mean there was like one I don't want to like name brands here or anything, but there was like a specific instance a few months back that a brand anyway. I don't want to name brands or call anybody out, but uh uh yeah, there are times that I get very self-conscious and like, oh, they're gonna eat our lunch and uh whatever, but then like the product comes out and the like you realize like, oh, that's actually just a completely different thing, and we should just worry about doing our own thing and making our own stuff good.
Radical Transparency And Sharing Financials
SPEAKER_01So I appreciate that. And I think it's a great answer in the sense where I don't know, man. It's I I don't know. I find myself uh sometimes having to like just get off social media altogether because I'm like, I I can't be so stressed out and and I have to just focus on my art and the things that I want to do and put out into the world and not be um I don't know, influenced, if you will, by any other outside force. Because if you're focused on what you're doing and you're focused on the things that you're excited about, it it that comes through in your product, that comes through in your voice. And yeah, it's it's I don't know, it's an interesting trap. It's something that's been on my mind recently. That's why I asked you because I don't know, I I feel like you're in this position as a founder where you know you're you're trying to build this thing, and you know, like like I said, the competition and you know, it's also easy for you to or not easy, but it's also uh I think really important for you as the founder to just be focused on what you're doing because it's had a lot of success so far. I mean, at least from the outside from what I can see.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. And like what you're doing, what what you are doing is what differentiates you and like makes people want to come listen to your podcast or buy Terragnota. And like if you start go if you start trying to imitate a different podcast, or if I start trying to be a different brand, like why wouldn't they just go listen listen to that other podcast or listen to or go buy something from the other brand? Like doing what playing your own game is what makes people want to come enjoy it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly. I want to pivot a little bit and go to um one of the things I really I appreciate is you're very transparent uh in putting out like your financials and talking about some of the growth that you've had. Talk about the idea for that. I think that's very cool because it really helps the listeners or listeners, it really helps the people that are buying your product, your patrons, um, and people that are you know behind the brand really connect with you in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Initially, initially I like released my financials simply because like when I was starting out, I like I wished other brands would do that. Like I think it would be so interesting to see it would just tell so much more of the story if other brands showed how they were actually doing and like what they were actually doing instead of just seeing the like marketing that they put out as trying to sell stuff instead of like the reality of behind the behind the scenes. And I I also just like am interested in how how brands or how how puzzles are puzzles are solved, and so like yeah, it's cool to see the nuts and bolts behind what's going on. Um and so like I wish that other brands would have would do that. Uh like for me when I was starting, so like I just thought it would be cool and other people might be interested in it. And I just and I felt like I didn't really have anything to lose by doing it. So I yeah, I mean, if people were like upset at the prices I was selling stuff for or whatever, like that's fine. Um there are other things for them to get upset upset about that yeah, like whatever. Uh so I didn't really see any downside, and I was just like curious about doing it. Um uh yeah, and another reason is it's like super good for me. Like I sometimes like it's easy for me to just like let my record keeping and financials and whatever get way behind. And so like doing this is actually really helpful for myself to put all these numbers together because it's like not required. I mean, for taxes or whatever it is, but for like the more nitty-gritty of like where the money is actually going is actually super helpful for for myself to put it all together and like see that. Um and it yeah, I uh I think it it does build trust with people. And I also like it's helpful to I don't want to say like call out other yeah, like say what other brands are doing is wrong, but um I think it's super important for people to like know oh what know like how much the gear actually costs and like what value Terra Gnoda is adding and what value brands are adding and um yeah, like I mean this could go into a whole discussion on on marketing and like how much money brands are spending on marketing that like just comes from product costs, aka u. So yeah, anyway, there's like multiple reasons, but really originally it just came out of a curiosity of other brands and wishing other people would do it. So I wanted to like start myself.
Product Development Risks And The Vest Bet
SPEAKER_01I mean it's definitely gotten a lot of uh I mean you can speak you can speak to this more than I can, but I could just speak in my sphere um from the people that I know. Like I, you know, a lot of friends that listen to the podcast really like you and like really resonated with the brand. I mean, dude, I mean, I I put out I've got like a little group of uh of amigos that I'll send out before I have like someone on. And I'll be like, Alex from Terragnoda is coming on. What do you guys want to know? And I got a ton of questions. Like you have almost like a borderline kind of like cult following amongst like some of these hardcore trail runners. Um, people that don't want to pay a gazillion dollars for when they know the margins and the markups from a North Face shirt or a satisfy moth tech shirt or some shit like that. You know, they they just want the basics, they want what's gonna get them from point A to point B. Um, so I would imagine you've had a lot of success from at least on the social media side and just from um the product side as well, from those types of people that uh really have built trust in that you've built trust with in the brand.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean the the two I've only done two of the financial posts so far, the sixth month and a year, but both of them have like gotten lots of traction on social media and like a ton of good feedback and and responses and comments. And yeah, I get lots of messages from people which I find very yeah, I'm just like very appreciative of when I get, uh, that are like Yeah, there's no other reason they write them other than just to tell me that they appreciate me being open and transparent about my financials. So yeah, I think it has developed trust and it's like a trust both ways where it like keeps me in line. Like I know that if I do anything ridiculous, like I'm I'm either gonna have to stop putting out financial reports, which maybe people will read into, or like I will have to actually show it in my financial reports so people were like see that I'm doing something dumb and like call me out on it. So like both is a way for me to be transparent, but also a way to just like keep myself in check. I think.
SPEAKER_01I like it. I like it. Yeah. Um, in the last year, since we've spoken, you've dropped the Valhalla Vest, and I think it was the Juniper jacket as well. You've and you've got um co-branded uh with Hydra Flask, Terragnota, um, soft flasks as well. Yeah. Uh talk about these new products and and the things that you uh have put out in the last year. It's kind of cool, man. I mean, you could do all the stuff. You could buy this whole slew of gear, and it's gonna cost you less than$200. Where you go to any other brand and the vest alone is gonna cost you$200.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I will say I did I the vest was eighty-four dollars on pre-order, and then when it came out, I'm changed it to$89 because I got like really hit with tariffs on those. So it's actually like$200 and$202 or something now for the full kit, not the$197 that was on my Instagram post. But anyway, besides. People forgive you. Um yeah, thanks. Uh I forgot what the question was. Oh, the new products I've come out with. Um yeah, the I mean I don't really really know where to start with this one, but like I just I mean, I love making products and developing products and like tinkering and figuring things out and designing, and that's like what I really that's like my favorite part of the business. Um and so like I'm always working on things, and uh I don't really have any timelines for products or like dates to hit because everything takes like sometimes I'll submit a design and uh specs for a product and get the first samples, and it'll be like super close to what I was wanting or expecting, and sometimes it'll be really far from what I was wanting and expecting and be terrible. And so, like, if it's super close, then the design process, development process goes pretty quickly. If it's really far, then it takes forever. And like either way is okay. Uh and I'm always like so I'm always working on it, but I just don't know how long exactly things will take until they get like pretty close to the end. Uh so yeah. Uh the the vest was a long, long time in the making. I went through a bunch of rounds of development with that, and it's like pretty design intensive compared to like a t-shirt. Um and also the minimum order quantities on the vests were huge and expensive for where I was financially at the time. Um, so that was just like a scary move to make. Um but yeah, I mean, I'm just working on developing like rounding out the line of products without Yeah, making more of making multiples of anything. Um Yeah, I don't know.
Tariffs, Bandwidth, And Daily Operations
SPEAKER_01No, I like it. I like it. You got the full kit, man. Can you can you expand on that a little bit about like bringing the vest. To life and telling that story. Because, you know, I don't think people realize, I think folks, when they see a brand, let's say the North Face, right? They come out with all these products, and no one really associates any risk behind a brand creating these products because it's a multi-billion dollar corporation and a private equity company. You are Alex King sitting in your office in Leavenworth, Washington, and you're trying to bootstrap this thing. Like there's a lot of risk there with financially for trying to uh you know get these orders, these massive quantities of uh you know, vests that you hope people are gonna buy. Talk about that story and putting that together and uh betting on yourself for that.
Handling Criticism And Customer Service
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um so like like I was saying, the vest took a long time in development, and the development process is actually fairly affordable. Um like getting samples from the factory and making changes and whatever is you know, it's a few thousand dollars, which is a lot of I mean, a lot of money, but compared to a production order is fairly affordable. So yeah, I I guess I was working on the vest for I don't know I don't know, I'm not I don't know how long, six months, eight months or something. And um you can only do so much. I mean, I did a lot of a lot of running the vest, but I still I'm always like very self-conscious of if if like I am the only one who likes this vest, or like even when I have five, ten people try out the product and run in it themselves, like maybe we're just happened to be the 10 people in the world who like this product and everybody else is gonna hate it and want to return it, or like there's so many risks that it's one thing to get 10 samples of a product that are like within size tolerance, but it's a whole different game when you make thousands of them and less attention is paid to every individual product. So maybe you'll get maybe they'll come and the sizing will be completely off and whatever, or like there'll be an error you didn't foresee. Um so yeah, like uh the the vests, the vests, the vests and flasks ended up costing me somewhere around a hundred grand to produce, um which yeah, at that point I had nowhere, yeah, yeah, I had nowhere close to that amount of money. Um so uh I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna I'm gonna I just don't know if I'm gonna do this vest right now. Like it seems like way too big of a risk. Uh but the people who had been using it, um, and specifically my girlfriend Jenny was like, dude, this is like the best vest I've ever tried. And like people are gonna love it, and you like you just gotta go for it. So um, yeah, I I mean that that I took out uh Shopify capital loan for$60,000 and said okay and uh went forward with production. Um and like I'm not sure why like it didn't feel super scary. I mean it felt scary because it was a lot of money, but it didn't feel like I knew that I could pay that off eventually if I just needed to go get a job or whatever. Like, I don't know. Uh it wasn't like I was gonna die if it didn't work out. Um yeah, I I don't know. I think I I don't actually know why that didn't feel that scary. Uh, but it was like a huge risk. And if the vests didn't work out, like yeah, that would have been the end of Terra Gnota. But uh when I first started Terragnota, like I it was the same thing. Like I took out credit cards and bet on myself and bet that these people would like these products. And I've just like kept doing that. And like the numbers have gotten bigger, but it's the same. Um I started with zero. So if I go back to zero, well, I'll that's fine. Like, I I won't have it, I don't know. It all just feels kind of like a big experiment play money right now. So um yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Has this like reshaped your your view on risk? I asked this question because like I come from a corporate finance background where everything is about risk, right? Like, what's our potential return? What's this? What's that? And it's gotta be it's interesting because everyone has their own risk tolerance, right? You know, like$60,000 is a ton of money to one person and it could not be a lot to another person or whatever, you know what I'm saying? How is it reframed like your view on risk and like betting on yourself? Like, you know, because I feel like if you succeed at this, which it sounds like you are and will, like almost it's got to completely rewire your brain for other things that you can bet on for yourself in life. And same thing with whether that's athletics, whether that's with business, it doesn't really matter. Like it's all the same game.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't know if it's rewired my relationship with risk because I've always felt, I mean, at least financially, I've always felt pretty risky with risk with or pretty comfortable with risk. Um, like and I guess part of that is because I've like never had something to lose. I think. So like I've never I've never had like the golden handcuffs issue, or I've never had a high-paying job, or I've never I've never had like more than I don't know, ten thousand dollars in my bank account at once, like my life savings, or uh I mean, um yeah, I've like never had much to lose, so I've never felt very adverse to risk. Um, I think. And so I don't know if having success in Terra Gnota has changed my view on risk, but it definitely has like allowed me to risk more, kind of, which feels super exciting, actually. Like I'm like stoked to be able, like I just put in new production orders for uh, or not just, but a month ago or so I put in new production orders for a bunch of products and probably I don't know the exact total, but it's probably near like$200,000 of inventory. And it feels like insane to say that and be able to like risk$200,000. Uh but it also feels like so cool to have the opportunity to like try and like go big. And yeah, again, like I I didn't have anything when I started this, and so like if I risk it all and it all blows up, like it was a it was a good ride. It was fun doing it, and I learned a lot and whatever. Like it yeah, risking it, risking it all doesn't seem that scary to me right now because it like not that long ago I was still just at zero. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01You uh had mentioned tariffs earlier. Um I'm in tariff meetings all the time at work, dude. It's a pain in the ass. Uh can you talk about how tariffs have impacted your business and have how have having to be agile and figure out stuff around ordering for stuff like that? How has that uh has that impacted you in any way?
Philosophy: No Ads, Trust, And Price Integrity
SPEAKER_00Actually, I actually think it has not impacted me very much. Um I mean, I I mean I like, I don't know, listen to the daily about tariffs or whatever, but I don't I'm not like in the weeds about where what actual tariffs are in place now versus yeah, I'm not like that following them that closely. I and I like don't feel like I have the ability or power to pivot quickly enough, or like the desire to or the know-how to. Um, so I just like keep doing what I'm doing and just like take it, whatever they tell me to pay, I just pay it. And like I don't think it's really Yeah, I just don't think it's really worth my bandwidth to try to like chase this game that nobody knows what what's coming or what's legal or not legal or whatever. Um yeah, so like I got hit pretty hard with the tariffs on the vests, vest and the flasks. Um and they came from Vietnam and Cambodia. Um and I don't know how this is happening, but somehow my factories in China are doing pretty well. Uh I just pay the money they ask me to pay, and that's it. Like and thankfully, it hasn't been thankfully they haven't it hasn't been a crazy increase in prices, and I don't want to ask too many questions. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't ask questions either. Just keep it rolling. Yeah, keep the train rolling. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh the product shows up and I pay the money, and that yeah, that's all I really care about.
SPEAKER_01You you said something around bandwidth. And I just have this question because, dude, like I'm always busy. I can't like it's a pain in the ass to manage a business and train at the same time and do all of these things. How do you structure your days now? Are you all over the place or or do you have to be structured in the things that you're doing so you can manage and get to everything?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it feels it feel uh I don't have a I don't have a structure. Like I don't have like, okay, I wake up at this time and I do this first, and then I have lunch, then I do this. Like I don't have any sort of structure. I'm very unstructured, but just from the nature of the business, like there ends up being like a like the structure just naturally comes. Like every every day the post office is open. I the usually the first thing I do is like get on my computer and respond to customer eat customer emails and uh process exchanges and ship orders is like the first part of my day, and then and then all depending whenever that then I'll bring all the packages to the post office and then uh try to go for my afternoon run, um which is nice that I can just like yeah, go for a run at 3 p.m. or whatever. Um and then usually in the evenings I come back to work and um the evenings are like when I do I'm I I really like the evenings. I'm a night person. Um so the evenings are when I do like business development stuff, whether it's like working on products or yeah, anything that's like not a daily task. Um so there's not, I mean, it ends up being there is actually now that I say it, there's like quite a structure to my day, but uh yeah, it feels all over the place a lot of times, and just like sometimes I don't do any business development stuff because I'm just like in the office packing orders all day, which is uh kind of hopefully that'll change in the near future. But um it's really just like as long as I can keep up with the like urgent daily things like orders and emails, like as long as I can keep that in check, I feel pretty good. And like making progress on business development is like feels like a bonus. Um yeah. I like it.
SPEAKER_01I like it. I mean, hey, dude, everybody's got their own way of doing things. I gotta ask you this question. The business is is big now. So you deal with a lot of customers. Not everyone's gonna be happy with their order. Is it hard or like stressful if you get like an angry or upset customer? Because like I feel like if I get like a one-star review on something, that kills me. It's like, oh, dude, that actually really hurt. Like I'm putting this art out into the world. And if someone really doesn't like, like you like went out of your way to do one star? Like, come on, man. Like, what are you doing there? And I can imagine it's gotta hurt if someone really doesn't like the product or this, that, and the other. Like, how do you deal with that as uh as a creator?
Ambassadors, Testing, And What’s Next
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it does affect me a lot. Um uh like fortunately, I don't get that many upset emails or that many bad reviews, or I haven't yet, at least. I'm always worried that I'm gonna wake up and I'm gonna have an inbox full of bad reviews, but fortunately that hasn't happened yet. Um but when I do get them, it's like insane how much more they stick with me and like ruin my day than than like when I get the good ones. Um I've tried recently to like I get a little notification in my inbox every time I get a review, and like it's like blah blah blah left a five-star review, or blah blah blah left a one-star review, and like I've usually I like skim really quickly the five-star reviews and like oh thanks, whatever, and like hardly even think about it, and then like read every single word 10,000 times of the bad reviews and like eat myself up about it. Um but I've tried recently just to swap that and like I just leave the five-star, I mean I read them and then I mark them as on red, and then just leave the five-star reviews in my inbox. So every time I open my inbox, there's like a few five-star reviews in there. And like uh uh yeah, I mean, I look at the bad reviews, but I like they still get to me, but I just yeah, not everybody's gonna like the product, and most of the time the bad reviews are like oh, he didn't respond to my email fast enough, two stars, I don't even have any products yet, but whatever. Uh I'm like, so like most of the times the bad reviews are just like nonsense anyway. Um or like somebody just wanting to get my attention, so I like, yeah. Uh yeah, and for like people sending people sending like upset emails, it's always actually like I've realized the I never really thought about customer service. I didn't think about customer service for half of a second in my life before I started Terugnota. And like I personally never return things, I just hate the process of doing it, like whatever. So I didn't think about it any. Uh but starting Terugnota, I've like realized how important customer service is. And like somebody sends somebody sends me like an upset email or a uh whatever. They're unhappy with the product or something bad happened, or like even if they're just yeah. Um it's amazing how you can take like this initial bad interaction or bad in yeah, bad interaction and and turn it into like a lifelong customer if you just like treat them with like kindness and show them like it's just a human behind the screen and like I mean usually give them what they want. But uh uh yeah, I think when you just like accept usually their what their gripes or whatever are true, like and so if you just like say, like, yeah, my bad, uh, here's how we can fix it. Uh yeah, it like the interaction like turns around very quickly, and they were like, oh, like they realize it's just me behind the email person, it's not like some AI agent or whatever. Um yeah, I mean, it takes a little bit of patience to like calm myself while I read the email, but if I respond with I don't know, respect and kindness and and like take ownership for any issues that we had, like yeah, I can turn around that and it's very rewarding.
SPEAKER_01Dude, I appreciate that that comment or that that just that feedback there. I mean, I think that's like the number one thing I have had to like work through and like figure out and just get a thicker skin on. It's like, all right, like not everyone's gonna really agree with what you have to say online, you know, when it comes to you know, something like the podcast or something like that. So you gotta have a thick skin and you have to be, you know, willing and open to hear everyone's point of views on it. And you know, not everyone's gonna some people are not gonna like what you have to say.
Restocks, Sun Hoodie, And Half Tights
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and like I just realized it's clothing and like everybody has such different bodies and like the same shorts or shirt or whatever is just simply not gonna work for everyone, and like that's okay. Like there are plenty of people these shorts and shirts or your podcast will resonate with and work for, and I will focus on them and I will say, sorry they didn't work for you, sorry you didn't like it, here's your money back, whatever. Like uh to the ones who don't, because yeah, there's just there's literally no way I'm gonna make a short or shirt or whatever that resonates with everybody in the world, and like that's fine.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna shift gears a little bit. At the risk of turning this into a marketing conversation, I am so curious to talk to you about marketing. Um, one thing specifically I want to get into is like you're in a the position you're in, like you could go one of two different ways. You could be super organic, like you are, and do your thing, or you could put out a gazillion ads and put ads all over the world, come check out Teric Nota, and you don't really do that. What is your take on kind of your your marketing? Like, what is your I don't know, your approach to this and uh what you want to do marketing-wise?
Racing Wins, Injury Comeback, And Mindset
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about marketing, so um I uh I guess like my initial thought to that question is like I don't I don't I don't do ads, like I don't pay for ads on Meta or Google, or I don't pay for ads anywhere. Um but Meta and Google are like the yeah, the the biggest ones. Um and every time I see a sponsored ad on Instagram or I see like a commercial, like an ad come up on YouTube for like a product that I like know or use or whatever, it's kind of like now every time I see one of those, I'm just like, well, they're like the product is more expensive because of this ad I just saw. And um I think that it I mean technology is in the fortunate situation where we we don't I mean it was a decision in the beginning to not advertise, but we're in this fortunate situation where we don't need to advertise and like we make a product that we make a product and have a brand and a price point that people trust and believe and want to share about. Um and I think it's like it's not uh it's like one can't happen without the other. Like we don't advertise and like we got to this level of trust and having a product that is high enough value people want to share about because we don't advertise partially. Um like if we advertise, we would just need to raise our prices, and then we would just be another pair of shorts for$80 or whatever. Um and because we don't advertise, then people talk about us, and then we don't need to advertise. So it's like a cycle, the a self-fulfilling cycle almost, I think. And I think advertising or paying for ads is like a is like a a negative feedback loop in a way where you start paying for advertising, and then you think like that's you pay for advertising, so and that's where you're you see sales return on that advertising. So then you start paying for more advertising, you see more sales returns. But like you end up just like giving Meta and Google a bunch of money, um, and which increases your prices or makes your prices stay high, I guess. And uh yeah, it just seems like a negative feedback loop to me. And there's like, I mean, I don't know if you want to go into this farther, but there was an episode of Second Nature. Recently, uh, of a sock company that like the title of the podcast was like this company spends a million dollars a month on advertising or whatever. And like I love second nature. Everybody should go listen to it. But yeah, I was like, uh so I was just like, why are we why are we like glorifying the fact that this brand spends a like gives Meta a million dollars a month? Like nobody, I mean, sure, some people I think the general zeitgeist is that people don't really like Meta, and yet we're like glorifying the fact that this brand gives them a million dollars a month to do what they do. Like Meta doesn't make aver meta doesn't make money on much else. Advertising is meta's biggest revenue stream, I think. Don't quote me on that, but I think I'm I'm fairly sure. Uh and uh like the sock company doesn't make money on anything else but socks, and so like the own the sock company isn't just like out of their own goodwill pockets giving Meta a million dollars a month. They're taking it from like we are paying that sock company a million dollars a month to give to Meta. Like, and why do we need a why do we need a one like artificially increase our sales of socks? And also if our socks are good enough, shouldn't they just sell themselves? Like, why do we need to throw them in everybody's faces and give like take a million dollars a month out of out of the loop and just like give it to this company that nobody really likes? And yeah, it just like does like the whole system of advertising just like doesn't really make sense to me. And yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's such an interesting thing. Because I think, I don't know, I I do agree with you. I think there's some instances where where it can make sense if it's organic and and good in that way. But like where I was getting at with this conversation is the last time you and I chatted, we completely shat on Satisfy. And at the risk of completely chatting on Satisfy again, that's where I see like just the whole thing completely inflated. Like you're getting a product that to me, I've I've seen the product, I felt the product, it's kind of your average product, but it's 6x the cost of you know, maybe probably I don't even know what their margins are. Probably insane. But they're their their budgets are crazy because they're you know, they're have they have these aid stations, they're they they do all these fancy things for their athlete team. They do a lot of like their marketing is insane, and that budget is insane, and that's why the product is so expensive. And it's like gluttony for the sense of gluttony or the sake of gluttony. And that's what I I think that's kind of a snake eating its own tail in some ways.
SPEAKER_00Right. Like the more you spend on your marketing, the higher your prices are gonna have to go. The more you spend on your marketing, the higher prices you have to go. Um and it's a hard loop. It's like a I mean it's it's their brand. It's like Yeah, I mean, I I I d despise satisfying the like I just will say it. I don't I just like despise the fact that they trademark every single word they come up with that like is supposed to uh make some technology cool uh when you could just say what it is and people would it would make way more sense. Um uh yeah, I mean I don't really know. It's I don't agree with their I don't agree with their business model, I don't agree with their standpoint. Like they obviously have a successful brand. Um well I think I don't really know. Um but it seems very successful. Uh not my cup of tea, and that's why I created Terugnota. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, no, no, and that's not it, it wasn't a gotcha question. It was more so just uh just talk on the marketing side because I do find it interesting, man. Every brand has their own, their own thing, you know. Some some of them, you know, are really into sponsoring aid stations and and really going crazy on their budgets, and you know, and some of them have the budget to do it, and by all means, like I don't know. I just don't understand why it resonates with people. I think that's the bigger question to me. It's like a moth tech t-shirt just doesn't, I don't get it. Like you just take a normal t-shirt to cut holes in the street.
Season Plans And Closing Thanks
SPEAKER_00I think the like sponsoring aid stations, sponsoring athletes, like this is all great. Like support, like keeping the money in the sport, uh fine. Um, I mean, sure they probably overdo it with many things, but I I would say that like the sponsoring aid stations and I I have no idea about their athlete budget, but I would say like the thing, like the community-facing things they do is are is probably a very small portion of their marketing budget. And um yeah. Interesting. Like those things are all great. I yeah. I don't want to like bash somebody for spending money on marketing and aid station because that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01On the topic of athletes, um, I'm gonna change the subject. I'm gonna go to uh because I we had a listener question. Um I'm gonna read this out to you. Uh Kevin asks, has it's actually a perfect segue here. Has Alex considered an ambassador program or athlete program that doesn't cost him a dime? Question mark. With his model of business, I'm happily I'll happily pay him to be a part of an ambassador, to be to be a part of an ambassador team. He left the word team out. Uh, with the only benefit being early access to new gear, no discounts, but let the ambassadors give free feedback with items. I don't know. That's a good question.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that I've that's a good question. Thank you, Kevin. Um, that's a good question. I have definitely thought about doing something similar, uh, or something like you can call it whatever you want. I don't know if ambassador would be the right word, but like a a testing group um or something of the sort. Um the I don't have any plans to do it right now. Um the the like biggest issue with something like that is like getting enough s samples. Like a factory doesn't want to make like 50 samples of something um and especially like 50 samples of every every iteration of something. Um they don't make any money on samples and they just don't yeah. They they'll make like a few. Um and then once it's in production, like why would I give early access to people when our mission is like making trailerning accessible to everyone? Um yeah, so like I've I at some point I will probably expand the testing or try to make some sort of like testing program. I don't know how it works and I don't have any plans for it right now. Uh I yeah. I I get a ton of emails about sponsorships and ambassadors, and I just like I try to respond to everyone and say like thanks for reaching out. Uh, but we just like I I simply don't have like the bandwidth as I was saying before to like set up an ambassador program um or or the financial resources to sponsor athletes monetarily. Um and yeah, it's not in the it's not in the plans right now. I'll just say that.
SPEAKER_01I like it. No, good answer. I mean, dude, it's tough. You need like a whole person dedicated. You need literally a whole person dedicated to running a team like that. It's not an easy thing.
SPEAKER_00It doesn't, I don't it's yeah. I it doesn't really make sense to like just send out gear to people and I have no follow-up or like whatever, and I don't have the I don't have the bandwidth to do all the follow-up and like get all the feedback. And I mean I have like I don't know, five people that I give gear to right now and like talk on the phone with all the time about it, but uh that's about as much I can handle. Yeah.
Host Reflections And Support CTA
SPEAKER_01No, I think it's a and that's a good sample size, a good amount of people. Like once you expand it to 20 people, then you're good luck. Yeah. It becomes more of a headache. Um no, good question. All right, Kevin has another audience question. Uh, the men's forbidden fleece hoodie, will that be restocked soon? And then that's followed up with um the creation of some sort of sun hoodie for the high alpine or an iteration of that. That's maybe, I guess, a different material for the high alpine, something like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So the fleece, the fleece will be restocked. It's in production right now. It will be in three new colors. It will have uh a couple updates. It'll have uh uh just like a drawstring closure on the on the waist. Um and it'll be made with uh recycled polyester this time, which is I don't know, kind of cool. Um but yeah, it's in production now and it should be in stock in June, which I know is a terrible time for a fleece hoodie to come out, but say la V or whatever they say. Um so yeah, that's that. Uh sorry about the long wait. I shifted manufacturers with the fleece hoodie and also the well, one Chinese New Year is in February, and so all the factories basically take the entirety of February off. So that makes causes some delays. Uh and I shifted factories and the recycled material. I like wanted to try out recycled materials, and it has it just like takes longer to produce a batch of recycled materials. Um for a sun hoodie. Yes, working on a sun hoodie. Uh I don't have any day for it. I don't have any real details on it. Um hopefully by the fall, there'll be a sun hoodie and or long sleeve version of the trail tee out. Um yeah, I'm wearing like a sample, I'm actually wearing a sample of a sun hoodie that I got. Uh it's not perfect, but it's pretty good. Um still got still have some work to do on that. So maybe in the fall.
SPEAKER_01Nice. Looks pretty cool. On the last uh last audience question, Josh asks, and this kind of follows up to, and this might be a redundant question, to um what items are you planning for 2026? Anything big? I mean, you kind of already you know have the gamut of every, you know, you have the whole kit more or less. But besides the sun hoodie or a long sheet, long uh long sleeve trell tee, um, anything else kind of in the works that you are working on right now?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I think the most exciting thing that is in actually in production right now are half tights. Um, coming out with haptites that I like pretty psyched on. Uh I've been working on working on them for a long time. Um they should be out in June-ish as well. Um and yeah, I always always have a bunch of random products in the hopper, but uh it would be dumb to talk about all of them because I don't have the money to to make all of them. So um it's good little tease for the yeah. Yeah, the biggest thing is the half-tights. Uh yeah, which I'm psyched about. Hopefully followed, hopefully followed up by tights in the fall. Like nice small, full tights.
SPEAKER_01Two great additions.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I feel like nobody really those are like the yeah, those are like the key missing apparel products, I think, right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, I totally agree. And I think to do a half-tight really well, especially at an affordable price. I mean, dude, the average half-tight, you go online, it's 80 to 100 bucks. I can't remember how much Janji charges, but yeah, you get a half tights are not cheap. So to do it at an affordable price is pretty legit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And they're they're very in right now, I think. Halftights are very hot.
SPEAKER_01That's true. That's true. Yeah. They make uh I don't know if you follow any of these meme accounts, but they're yeah, the half-tites on men have been uh it's a hot topic these days.
SPEAKER_00Well, our our halftides, our men's men's half-tites at least are have like uh uh half brief in them. So there's at least an extra layer of fabric. There you go. There you go. Which also I I mean for me that like makes chafing way, way, way, way, way better. Uh I tested them with both and it like yeah. I don't know how people run without an extra layer. I don't know if people do or how people do, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Not good. Not good. Yeah. All right, let's chip gears. We've got got a few minutes left. I I want to uh talk about you as the athlete, dude. Uh I was so impressed with your the way you ended the season, man. You won you went out and won the Cirque Series Crystal, which I gotta be honest with you, I had you on the podium, but I uh I was really interested to see the matchup between you and Liam. I couldn't believe that happened. I was like, damn, Alex.
SPEAKER_00And then I didn't have myself doing that either, so no sweat there.
SPEAKER_01And then uh and then you go and win uh what is it? Uh the UTMB Whistler 100k.
SPEAKER_00The Whistler, UTMB, yeah. Yeah. Dude, yeah, what a uh Yeah, I was like psyched. I was super, I was super psyched. I was honestly more psyched on the cr uh Circ series than the Whistler race. Um but yeah, I tr training has like been all over the place the last many months. It's sometimes it's great, sometimes it doesn't happen, sometimes whatever, and I just like get it in when I can and um yeah, I think f such a big advantage for me, or like advantage over my previous self for me is like I'm not I'm not like before I felt like I was racing to like prove myself or or like yeah, get noticed or recognized or sponsored or something and just like show people I was like good enough somehow. Um and now I feel like I'm running and training and racing just because I like trying hard and like it feels like a bit of an unlock to have no pressure and like um be satisfied at where I am in like my life outside of running, that running can just be like this thing I get a try super hard at and like don't always have the most time to train, but can still compete and um yeah, it it's cool. Uh I I don't really know what more to say. Like the the Six Years race felt super good, and then the uh the Whistler race was like just a way to get into uh UTMB this year, and it wasn't super deep really competition. There weren't actually that many people to who showed up, so um yeah, but I was like really happy with how I executed my own race on that. I like I've have had a bunch of nutrition issues in the past and like really just simplified my nutrition plan for that and like kept pushing throughout the whole race and like yeah, was just happy how I executed it. Um and I have uh the big Ulta 100k coming up in uh two weeks, two and a half weeks that I'm very excited to go race. I like yeah, I'm feeling pretty ready to try hard again.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I like it. I like it. I mean, dude, I gotta hand it to you. Of all the performances you've had, and you've had a lot of really good ones, I think that Cirque series race is uh I'm gonna I'm gonna put that near the top because there was a lot of lot of people that showed up to that race and threw down. And uh yeah, that was a big deal. So very, very cool. Yeah. Especially I mean, for your journey as well, dude. And I don't know if uh I mean for the audience, we've got a lot of new listeners here, a lot of new fans for both, but like I don't know if people understand the story of you tearing your Achilles and then coming back from that. And like that's not an easy thing to do, like pretty crazy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And it like I mean, it's like an old old I don't know what the saying is being an old drum. I don't know, whatever. It's a it feels like an old story now. It feels like I've said it enough, but uh it it's crazy how much it still affects me, like um uh not mentally, but just like physically. My calf is tiny on my left side, and uh uh like I it actually boggles my mind that I can run as well as I can because like I can do like half of a calf of a single-legged calf raise on that side. Like it is so weak. Um uh and I like have been trying to do some PT and stuff, but I don't know. It just doesn't seem like it's ever coming back to what it was. Um, but somehow my body's adjusted and worked with it, and um yeah, it's cool to see like I can still be strong and yeah. Beat these young whipper snappers.
SPEAKER_01I like it. Yeah. Shout out for the old guys, that's right.
SPEAKER_00I wouldn't call myself that yet, but all right.
SPEAKER_01I feel like for being for being you've been in the sport a long time, though, you know.
SPEAKER_00I've been in the sport a long time. I have been in the sport a long time. That's fair, but uh I'm only 30 years old, so come on.
SPEAKER_01That's true. That's true, fair enough. I mean, I hate to throw you in the loop with the old guys, all right. You're still young. You're not even in your prime.
SPEAKER_00I think Liam and I are like the same age or one year apart or something.
SPEAKER_01I think where are we gonna see you this year? Where are you uh gonna be racing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Big Alta, and then um the only other race I'm signed up for right now is UTMB, which I'm excited about. Uh I'm sure I'll throw some other ones in the middle of those two. Um probably the Leavenworth Trail Fest, because it's right here in town. Uh y'all should come do that race. Um yeah, I'm like mostly just excited to try hard on efforts that like mean something to me and like uh are more adventury. I feel like the last many months I haven't been able to prioritize getting out for like personal adventures all that much. Um so I'm like stoked to try to get some more of those in the summer.
SPEAKER_01I like it. The fire is lit. Well, Alex, dude, thank you so much for coming on. This is a great conversation. I think this is definitely better than our first one, in my opinion. It's a great conversation.
SPEAKER_00I had more to talk about. I mean, the first one I think I was like, I don't know, two weeks after shipping my first product or something. So yeah. I still don't really know what I'm doing, but I definitely didn't know what I was doing then.
SPEAKER_01So I can't wait for the appreciate you have me on, yeah. Oh, yeah, dude. Of course, I can't wait for the third installment. You know, maybe by then it'll be uh this thing'll be giant ship and you'll be yeah, it'll be uh yeah. I love it, dude. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Great conversation, and uh I can't wait for the next one and have a great rest of your day. And good luck with training and hey, good luck at Big Alta too, man. It's gonna be a great race. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. What'd you guys think? I mean, I think that was one of the best episodes we've done in a while. Like I think uh yeah, I'll I just really appreciate Alex being candid and like really showing you guys what it's like to bet on yourself and uh you know risk it and what it's like being a founder of something and chasing big goals and yeah, it's all it's all the stuff it's all the good stuff, man, the hero's journey. So definitely want to appreciate Alex for coming on. Uh big time thanks to him. You can the best way you can support him, hop on over to Tarek Note and guys, put it in order. I mean, a lot of listeners to this podcast I know already, um, you know, love his stuff, but definitely check out some of the shirts, man. The shirts are dope. Trell T is where it's at, the shorts are amazing, the socks are great. Um, the uh what is it, the Valhalla vest is pretty dope. I've not personally tried that yet, but I've heard great things. Um yeah, throw in some support, even if it's just buying a t-shirt. Buy a t-shirt, support a guy that's doing something and that's not a giant frickin' private equity backed business. Like support a guy that's like trying to build his dream and make something come to life. And uh yeah, I don't know. I think that's the the good guy we can just get behind right now in in the world. And and that's that's yeah. I'm gonna stop preaching. Guys, also the best way you can support him too, not just place in an order, give terignota a follow on Instagram. Um and uh give Alex a follow too. Alex King Runs, hit him up, it's gonna be in the show notes. Um, but yeah, best way you can support him. Buy stuff on taragnota.com. Give uh terignota a follow, follow Alex as well, and let him know what you thought about the episode. Um, you know, big time fan of this guy. So thanks so much.
