#169 - Caleb Hardaway

A five hour push across Boulder’s Flatirons sounds like a hard trail run until you add exposed scrambling, solo climbing up to 5.7, and the kind of off trail linkups where every boulder wants your ankles. We sit down with Caleb Hardaway, a new La Sportiva mountain running athlete, to unpack how he set the FKT on Jerry Roach’s Top 10 Flatirons linkup and why that time was built months before the clock ever started.

Caleb walks us through the route’s moving parts: choosing a clean style, climbing and downclimbing efficiently in running shoes, and treating navigation between formations as its own technical discipline. We get into the projection process that makes serious Fastest Known Time efforts possible, including rehearsing cruxes, studying video beta move by move, comparing GPS tracks, and learning when “fast” starts to feel unsafe. It’s a conversation about performance, but also about judgment, restraint, and earning confidence on steep terrain.

We also zoom out to the bigger mountain athlete picture: why Caleb isn’t motivated by racing, how van life and bartending shifts create training freedom, and what he’s eyeing next around Longs Peak and Rocky Mountain National Park. Plus, we nerd out on gear details that actually matter on rock, from sticky rubber to resoling shoes for better traction on the Flatirons.

If you’re into mountain running, scrambling, FKTs, Boulder climbing culture, and the messy human side of big goals, you’ll want this one. Subscribe, share the episode with a friend who loves steep terrain, and leave a review so more mountain athletes can find the show.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Loriello, and today I'm so excited to welcome Caleb Hardaway to the show. Caleb is a new member of the Las Pratas mountain running team, a new teammate of mine, and I was super excited to get to learn more about him. Caleb most recently set the FKT on the Flat Irons link up, Roach's Top 10, which is a 15-mile, 7,600-foot vertical route on the Flat Irons in Boulder, Colorado. And we talked all about it. We talked about his love and passion for the mountains, his philosophy, his why, and all kinds of good stuff there. Really big fan of Caleb's. Very excited for what he's going to do on the FKT scene. I've been wanting to lean into more FKT-based episodes, talking to more FKT athletes, and I think this is a good start of some of those conversations. So without further ado, I definitely want to welcome uh Caleb to the Lost Purtiva team and uh excited to learn more about him. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. Ladies and gentlemen, we are live. Caleb Hardaway. Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, buddy? Good, man. Good. Stoked to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, man. Excited to excited to have a chat with you. I'm glad you reached out and I'm glad to kind of get the conversation rolling and learn more about you. You uh were I think the only running sign uh the only runner signing from Sportiva this year, which is uh pretty exciting and cool stuff. You've got some cool FKTs to your name, and um you're definitely making a name for yourself in the in the boulder scene. So I'm definitely excited to uh to chat and learn more about you, dude. Rock and roll, yeah. All right, so maybe give me give me like the five or ten minute elevator pitch. Like what's your what's your background? How did you get into the sport? Um, where did the excitement come from? Talk about give give me give me the whole background. Where'd you grow up? Things like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Oh man, wow. Uh okay. Well, I was uh originally born in South Texas. Uh my parents moved us up to Colorado Springs when I was seven years old, so like third grade, and just been in Colorado ever since. Uh I was like a team sports guy in grade school and high school, and then later in college got into you know trail running, uh cycling, rock climbing, and just got really into the public lands and outdoor space and just pushing myself in that realm. Um yeah, just been an off-the-radar guy living in the desert for a long time, just working on my skills, getting strong, motivated and inspired by like steep and technical terrain. And uh just moved to Boulder about 11 months ago to try to make a little name, make a little splash, if you will, and uh yeah, so that's kind of where we're at. Nice, man. How do you like in Boulder so far? It's good, it's sick. I mean, I'm a kind of a hermit, I don't do anything. I don't like I live in Boulder, but like I just go to work and I run in the flat irons, and that's about it. Uh so yeah, it's fine. I mean, like the first six months I lived here, I think I only went into the the bar I work at and uh Chipotle were like the only businesses I went into for the first six months. So and other than that, I was just on the flat irons or in Eldo or yeah, running up Green Mountain or something like that. Very cool, very cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Talk about your time in the desert, dude. Let's let's hear about that. Like what first of all part of the desert and yeah, what were you doing out there? Just climbing or running and climbing?

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, so I was living in Fruda, Colorado, previously to moving here. I've been living on and off in like the Grand Valley, so that's Palisade Grand Junction Fruda area for since 2014. Um it's cool, it's like it's very close, it's just a stone's throw away from Moab. It's the crow flies. I think it's like less than 60 miles or something like that. So very similar terrain to the Moab desert space. Um, yeah, I did most of my training in the Colorado National Monument. If we're talking about like stuff on foot, um it's cool, it's sandstone, there's lots of canyons, it's just this crazy system of canyons on the edge of the Uncompadre Plateau. It's got a lot of history behind it, um a lot of historic like mining routes and and some rock climbs and just yeah, really good trails. So yeah, just like the last five years or so, just got really stoked on steep stuff. Um and just been Yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah, and just like just working on my skill set in that in that range. Uh I love running. Yeah, it's it's funny. I signed the mountain running team, but I don't know if I consider myself a runner. You know, I do run, I run hard, but like I like getting my hands involved. I like when the terrain gets really steep and yeah, really three-dimensional, or yeah. So doing that kind of stuff in in the monument, just this crazy sweaty white dude running around the desert. Uh there's not much of a culture scene for it over there, so it was it was interesting. I was just kind of doing my own thing for a while. So yeah, moving to Boulder's changed up quite a bit for sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah. Well, Boulder's kind of the big show, man. I mean, it's an interesting place in that you have some of the best climbers in the world, you've got a lot of the best runners, triathletes, just some of the best athletes on planet Earth walking around, which is kind of cool. So it's a it's a great place to kind of pull influence from and also you know get yourself stoked on different things, and you get people to collaborate with as well, too, on different projects, which which makes it fun as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like, I think I got on Strava in 2020, and um my buddy was just like I was doing all this stuff, and I had a buddy who like saw that maybe I had some potential, I was doing some things fast, and he's like, Oh, dude, you should join this app. And I joined the app and he told me a handful of guys to follow. He grew up in Westminster, so names like Kyle Richardson, Michael Reese, uh Tony, Danny Gilbert, like started following those guys years ago and just like getting inspiration from those guys and and and trying to find my own path based on like yeah, some of their philosophies and stuff like that. So yeah, that bolder mindset has always been like a driving force for me, but I was just off the radar over there building my skills, and eventually I was like, ah, I think I'm getting pretty strong, but I have no way of really telling. So just made the move, loaded up my van. One day I had like two grand in the bank account and came over the hill and started climbing on the rocks here, and it's it's been gone pretty good so far for sure. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Have you had a chance to uh to meet Tony or uh or Kyle yet?

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Uh yeah, I've met both of those guys. Um I met uh Anton in passing a couple times. He seems really cool. Uh I think I might have a little bit more of a relationship with Kyle at this point. Like um, we text a little bit, we've done a run together, or like we've run off longs together, and um he's uh just been like really supportive and he helped me through the sponsorship process. We had a meeting and he like talked me through some of that stuff. And yeah, both those guys are cool. It's crazy meeting your heroes, and like at this point, like I don't know, like I mean, I'm on team with Tony at this point, you know, so like that's just mind-blowing to me for sure. So it's funny, man.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Like, I I I laughed at this like the first I used to be I had it and saw it on the podcast, I don't know, it was like September or something like that. And before I had met him, I was like so intimidating by the so intimidated by the guy, and then you meet him and he's like just a dude, and he's like the nicest person in the world, like sits down and like really gives you time. And Kyle's the same way. It's funny how I I laugh because uh like on social media we we build these people up into you know being these like larger than life figures, and then when you actually meet them, they're like just like really normal, interesting humans, and you know, they they have a lot to a lot to give. I like I love that Kyle was able to sit down and like kind of help you with the sponsorship stuff, like kind of paying that forward and giving back to those kind of coming up in the sport, I think is such an important thing. Kyle's a good dude, he's a he's a great human, he's a friend as well, and someone who I I look up to a ton.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, Kyle's been so dope. So, yeah, I'll tell you how we how I met him. It's kind of a cool story. I was on doing a long speak uh route with a group about five dudes or something, and we're descending off the loft, and it was kind of snowy, and this like shirtless bearded dude, I see him up the hill, you know, and he's moving good, and I'm like, oh, that's somebody. And he just and I was like, you know, uh filling in the gap between like a guy who's falling behind a little bit, and Kyle comes running by, and I was just like, Holy shit, was that Kyle Richardson? And my buddy was like, I don't know who that is, and I was like, that was definitely Kyle Richardson, I'm gonna go like try to catch up to him. And I like ran down the hill and he was like emptying some rocks out of his shoe. And uh he was super chill. I was just like, Yeah, awkward. I've done this more than once in Boulder now. I just like ran up to him and I was like, Hey, are you Kyle? And he was like, Yeah, man, what's your name? Like, we got chatting a little bit, and I told him I was Caleb, and yeah, and I was just surprised, like, the the Strava hounds here are crazy. He already knew who I was. I was like, he's like, Oh, that makes sense. And there's another Caleb H here who's really strong, so I was like, You might not be thinking of me. And he's like, Oh, you just moved here from Fruto, and I was like, Holy shit, yeah, these guys are watching what's going on on the scene, and then yeah, so we ran down the mountain together and it was super rad and exchanged numbers, and he was hyped on the I told him I was working on the top 10 at the time, and he was really stoked on that project. So he like was like, I'll be following along, and he did, and we talked about some stuff and he shared some pointers, and it's it's been a cool relationship so far. That's an amazing story.

Desert Training And Finding Steep Terrain

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yeah, I love that. It's always like I said, it's always fun when you bump into yeah, you bump into people you know on on the mountains and get to build a relationship, and yeah, you never know how that's gonna turn out. Um I want to pivot a little bit because you had just mentioned uh the Flatirons link up, uh, the top 10 that you had done, big FKT. In fact, I was just in a Sportiva meeting and it got brought up and we were talking about it um at the one of the athlete meetings. And yeah, I feel like it was a really cool story to talk about and a cool FKT to tell. So maybe maybe talk about this route that you put up uh that you set the FKT on and uh give us some background on it.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The top the top ten of the days just it's a sick route. Um I first found out about it about a year and a half ago. Uh my buddy, my buddies Caleb and Isaac were like the 27th and 28th people to ever do it at all. Um, and they did it with a rope. And uh I was like, oh, that sounds sick. I I want to do that. So I I had in my mind that I was gonna do it. I didn't think I was gonna go for the FKT. At the time, I didn't even know there was an FKT for it. It just sounded like right up my alley on something like a really cool day out. And uh I was working on the top 10 for other reasons, um, getting those climbs done, and just like started climbing them a little bit, and I was like, oh, this feels like something I can do. It's right up my alley. So yeah, later down the line I decided to start pursuing the record. But yeah, what the top ten is, uh uh Jerry Roach wrote a guidebook for the flat irons. Um for a lot of people here, it's like the Bible for sure. It's just like it is the definitive book for boulder climbing and scrambling. Um, and in that book he listed uh what he calls the top ten easy flat iron climbs. And it's just like these climbs that are spaced out across the boulder flat irons, which is a formation of rock uh conglomerate sandstone that runs from Green Mountain from Gregory Canyon all the way down to El Dorado Canyon. And um yeah, so I don't know exactly how he decided what was going to be top ten routes. I mean, some of them are phenomenal. They're all great, obviously. I love them all at this point, but they seem pretty evenly spaced out as you go down the line. And uh yeah, I don't know. Um it's like it's it's definitely one of those routes where it's like I wouldn't necessarily just call it scrambling, you know. Like some some of the routes felt very serious and felt like we're edging on the ground of soloing at that point. Uh yeah, I mean I can go to more details if you want to know the routes or whatever. Take it away. For sure. Yeah, in order. Um, so most people do it. So for the longest time, people were just doing it from starting at Chautauqua in the north, ending at um the south Mesa Trailhead, and just doing it one way. Um Buzz Burrell had the had the FKT for a while doing it that way. I think he was the first guy to solo all the roots, but he brought a rope up and repelled down. So the roots in order is uh on the first flat iron, there's the direct east face, it's five six. Uh a lot of people call it the greatest scramble in the world. Uh I agree, it's just it's sick, it's the coolest rock. Then you move over to the third flat iron, you have um the standard east face goes at 5'4, and then on the back side, Friday's Folly goes at 5'7. Then you move over to Green Mountain Pinnacle, climb taking care of business. It's a just a crazy chimney route. I don't even know what it goes at. Uh after that, there's stairway to heaven, then back porch, palea. Um after Palay, you do the Fat Iron Maiden and Matron. So uh yeah, so the FKT for a long time was just one direction, Buzz Burrell had had it set. Then a guy named Darren Smith, I think it was in 2016, he ended up beating Buzz's time and making it a round trip. So he closed the loop and finished at Chautauqua, which so so Darren made it cool, in my opinion. Like it was already it was a cool route, but now like closing the loop, making it all in one push, no shuttling, human-powered. Darren made it cool, and then several years later, Joe Kennedy came around and Joe made it incredibly fast. Uh, he dropped Darren's time by like an hour and fifteen minutes. Um, just like really Joe Kennedy's a wild athlete. Uh yeah, and so and then I just I took the time from from uh Joe this September and dropped it by about 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

So five hours, one minute, 43 seconds. Does that sound right? That was it. That was it, yeah. That's pretty fast, dude. That's uh it's a lot of up and down. So it's uh you're downclimbing this as well. You're not like like Buzz, you said, kind of repelled off. This is instead you're going up and then downclimbing and then going up and then downclimbing. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah, absolutely. And for me, that's huge. Like the style of that is huge for me. I'm really big on like keeping it as minimal as possible in the mountains, like just yeah, relying on your fit fitness and skill to have a good time and a safe time in the mountains. So yeah. So every rock that you went up, I go up, yeah, you had to down climb some route. You only have to climb each route one time, so you don't have to go up and down the same route if you don't want to. Um, there were a couple of rocks where that's the easiest route on the rock, so I did go up and down a couple routes directly, but some rocks I use different downclimbs. Um, yeah, it was this crazy FKT. Uh it's not really on the radar for most people outside of Boulder. Um, and it's just like it is what I think is mountain running, you know, like there's like a lot of off-trail link ups, there's a lot of steep terrain running through boulder fields, and then yeah, you end up hitting five-seven terrain and you're climbing it in a pair of tennis shoes. It definitely locks you in, you're in the zone, it feels real for for sure. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Talk talk about like projecting this. Like, I don't know. It's I think that's like my favorite part about the FKT or any type of FKT is like how much work like I hate that like when people just like show up and just do it. Like, that's that's not cool. I love seeing people like putting the work in, giving hours and hours of their life to this, and then showing up on a given day and giving it truly their best go. So talk about your how much work you kind of put into this thing and uh how did it consume your life? Like, what was that journey like, if you will, to get to the the FKT and actually the doing of the deed for the FKT?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah, absolutely it did consume my life. I yeah, my good friends would always joke, like, which one of your ten rocks are you gonna go climb on today? And I'm like, Well, there's only nine rocks, you idiot. So but uh um yeah, and I like that you said that too. It is I I truly believe it is an FKT. I don't think there's anyone alive that could just come on site this FKT. It's just it takes so much time to figure out not just the roots and the specific beta while you're rock climbing, but the links between the rocks and all the off-trail movement is just so specific and very technical. And a lot of times I thought like that moving between the rocks was the area where I was most likely to get hurt, you know, because you're running off this mountain through a boulder field that's just like not marked terrain, and it's like every rock wants to eat an ankle kind of thing. Yeah, I mean projecting it was a serious thing for me. Uh I took it very seriously, like this FKT, yeah, it's no joke, and I never want to downplay it. Like, my like you're you're putting your life on the line by doing a lot of these routes, and especially with that speed and sweaty hands and just wearing a pair of running shoes. So I've worked on it every single day basically since I since I moved here. I mean, every single day is maybe a stretch. I did have some days on longs and a few other alpine days with buddies, but yeah, I got obsessive, and that's just the kind of person I am for sure. And some of the harder climbs, like I would I had to rope up before I was ready to solo them, and I would and I had buddies taking videos of me, and I'd be laying in my van at night just studying these videos, you know. Like one of the biggest, one of the cruxes of the route is the is the maiden. Uh for Joe Kennedy, he said it was his definitive crux. Um and for me, it was definitely a crux. I don't think it was the hardest thing, but yeah, I I mean there was when I unlocked that route for soloing, it literally like I had a video on my phone and I had screenshotted every single move, and there was about 17 climbing moves through the crux, and I was like, yeah, like alright, get your feet high, and then you're reaching around this overhang to a solid jug. Yeah, and that's just how I spent every day of my life. I was either on the rocks or I was in my van visualizing being on the rocks, looking at actual beta, or I was in my buddy's Isaac's room and we're on the computer and we're looking at a GPS track and we're trying to figure out, like, oh, you know, Joe cut here through this section of OSMP, like, but like maybe if you go up a little higher and cut across here in this boulder field, it might be a straighter shot. So yeah, it was that I loved that part of the process. Just like, yeah, and for me it was really cool because this is my opening year in Boulder, and I just like I wanted to have a real good connection with the flat irons. I wanted to get to know this landscape and like leave my mark on it. And man, I just created such a bond with this landscape. Like, know it like the back of my hand now, just from being out there on those rocks, literally blood, sweat, and tears on those rocks for sure, just the whole summer. Yeah, yeah, the process was crazy, it was wild.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

I love that. It it's interesting, man. Like, I I don't know, like I I love when people just kind of give their all to something and then kind of watch it unfold. It's like a drug, too, is you get the unlock, right? You start to learn more things and improve and see that improvement and get better, and it's like that's where the addicting part comes. And then you know, the final putting it all together, I think, is yeah, it's like the final test, the final exam. But it's that lead up that's really interesting as well. Um, dude, what is what drives you? Is it like, is it competition? Is this more so your art? Is this like an art form of yours? Like, how do you how do you view this in the mountains? Like, I know you take guys like Kyle, right? It's very much an art for him, you know. For others are very competitive and very competitively driven. Like, where do you fall on that spectrum?

Breaking Down The Flatirons Top 10

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah, definitely like leaning more towards Kyle. I'm not as philosophical as Kyle or Anton. These guys are like so philosophical. And but yeah, I mean, I just love doing it. It's my passion. My main goals as an athlete is to like is to first off, like push myself physically, push myself mentally, figure out where those lines are, and just keep pushing those lines safely, obviously, and like building the skills to get there. But yeah, I'm trying to like I'm trying to beat myself, I'm trying to conquer myself. And then secondly, I'm just inspired by landscapes. Um, previously it was the Colorado National Monument, and I just wanted to conquer that landscape. I wanted to know its ins and outs. I wanted to be the guy that knows everything about that area and and crushed it, and then it yeah, became the flat irons in the top ten. I just what a sick line, what a sick landscape. Like, I want to conquer this landscape, I want to leave my mark on it. Uh I want it to defeat me some days too, and like show me like what I'm capable of. Uh yeah, this FKT, the mental aspect was so so huge for sure. And there are several part points during the whole process where I was ready to drop the project totally because like it's it can be very dangerous. And I like told myself early on, like, if you're not feeling 100% 100% solid on all these climbs, you're not you're not gonna go give it a full rip. And even talking to Kyle about it, like I don't think I understood the magnitude until after I'd already done the FKT and talking to some of these bigger guys, and Kyle was like, dude, you have to know that's a that's a legit project. That's something I considered, but ended up just not going for for whatever reason because he thought it was yeah, too gnarly or whatever. And yeah, so I was just like it didn't really set in in the moment, you know. Like I was just trying to to conquer myself and push myself to these next limits, and then just I guess it ended up being something that you know caught caught caught the eyes of the right people, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. How did you feel after the fact? Like I always it's interesting to me when folks go for big goals. Like it's like uh if I have like an A race or something and then the race is over with, unless like if I'm feeling really good about the result, I'm kind of in a depression afterwards because it's like, well, that's over. I gotta go wait a year to go do something like this again, or or I gotta go wait however many weeks to go, you know, rip the band-aid off and do the same thing over again. And I do get like really bummed out, um, especially when the season's like proverbially over. Like, how how did you feel after accomplishing this great thing? Like, was there a little bit of a low, or did you just move on to the next?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Uh yeah, it's interesting. Maybe a little bit of both, you know. Like, first off, I did not know that I was gonna get the FKT. You know, some people go into these projects and they're like, I got this, and this is gonna go down. I had I was like, damn, Joe is a beast, you know, and I am like just like sweating and checking my splits, like, holy shit, I'm only 45 seconds ahead of him at this point, you know. And so like when I got it, obviously I was stoked. I was like, holy shit, you you did that, you like got through it. Um yeah, but then also at the same time, I was just like, okay, well, what's next? It was kind of nice to like drop the obsession a little bit, spend some more time with friends, uh, take it casual for the next couple months, and just really socialize and try to stoke up that bolder community, if you will. Um of course, man. I mean, you said it was like five hours, one minute, and forty odd seconds. Uh, and of course, I had the guys asking me right away, like, are you upset you didn't go sub five? You didn't go sub five. And I was like, dude, fuck you. Like, I went as hard as I could. Like, I left it all out there for sure. I'm not upset about anything. And I think it's sick. I think it does go sub five. I think I'm really excited to see like what guy gets inspired by this and and really yeah, dives into it and takes it to sub five. And I hope I can help him. Um Joe Kennedy was super helpful for me, helpful for me, and showed me some things that made the effort possible for sure. And I'd love to pass that on. I just think the stoke is sick. Yeah, and that's one of those efforts I'd love to see go down. I want to see, I want more athletes like that. I want to be and I want to befriend those athletes and and run in the mountains with those kind of guys. So yeah, I don't know. It goes both ways. I mean, I'm stoked on it now. It seems so far away at this point. I'm like, all right, that's cool, but what have you done recently? You know, my eyes are like on the future. I'm I want to I want to try something new and yeah, keep pushing it. And I still I think I think where I'm at as an athlete, yeah, like I somehow landed this sponsorship, but I still have like a lot of proving to do, you know. So I'm excited to see what this next summer brings for me and and just yeah, expand my portfolio, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Let's talk about that. I know it's I know in the FKT world it's always kind of I know some people view it as poor form to spray, but I also think it's like fun educationally, especially for the audience, for them to learn. Like where where can they find you? Where are they gonna see you? Like, what are you gonna be working on? And like what goals do you have? So maybe talk a little bit about maybe projects or maybe races. Maybe we'll see you at a race this year.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

No, I don't think you'll see me at a race, unfortunately. Or not, I don't know. Yeah, I'm just not that inspired by racing. It's uh for me, it's a personal experience in the mountains. Like I said, I'm just trying to conquer myself. I think racing's sick, and I think it's a sick way to showcase skills, and all the guys who are crushing races are just so badass, and I just look at them from a distance and I'm like, well, go get it. But uh yeah, I don't know. I'm I've just like I said, just moved back to the front range. Um and I'm just trying to leave my stamp on this area. So I'll be in Rocky Mountain Park, uh Rocky Mountain National Park this summer pretty heavily living in my van at the parking lot at Long's, probably. I'm gonna do my time on Long's Peak. Um, there's a lot of links in that area. There's a lot of routes that I want to check out. Um, I'm kind of eyeballing a few things at this point. I haven't fully decided on what I'm gonna go for. Um, walk in the park is something that's on the radar. Um, I've definitely gone to do that at some point. I don't know if it'll be an FKT effort. I'm gonna be doing the Long's Peak Grand Slam, uh Glacier Gorge Traverse. Um, I'll probably start checking out LA Freeway and start projecting that. It seems like it needs to be a multiple-year project if that's something I'm ever interested in going for. So yeah, at this point for this upcoming summer, I'm I'm gonna be, yeah, on the two days I work a week, I'll be in bowler running on the flat irons, and then after that, I'll be up in Rocky Mountain National Park, just uh getting familiar. Yeah, dude, just getting familiar with that landscape, yeah. Doing my time.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Talk about this life. I I find this interesting. I I um I think a lot of guys and gals like romanticize like that that van life, like being able to just, you know, spend time, you know, sleeping in your van, waking up in the parking lot of this beautiful national park, hopping out and going for a run and and doing, you know, living life by your means, if you will. Uh, talk about that. How much do you enjoy that life and and that style of, you know, maybe that lifestyle in general?

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah, I mean, it's great. It works for me wonderfully, and it's the only reason I've been able to achieve the things I've been able to achieve so far. Is like I think there's two options. Like, you can be independently wealthy, and that will help allow you to have the time and space to pursue these things, or like, dude, I am so poor that I have subsidized health care in the United States of America. So, like, I'm super poor, but that's part of the lifestyle, and that's not that's not what I live for. Yeah, so like just living in the van gives me the opportunity to pursue my goals on a daily basis and pursue my goals when I have the energy to pursue my goals, you know. Like I work as a bartender, so my shifts start at like 2 or 3 p.m. So like I get to wake up in the morning and be fully energized and use all that energy to pursue my goals, and then I go to work clapped, and that's fine because I have to get the job done. But I think a lot of people struggle with that. Like, if they have to go to work at 9 to 5 and then you get off at 5 and you're already tired, it's just so much easier to say, I'm not gonna do a run today, I'm just tired. So living, yeah, living in the van has just made it possible for me. I mean, I don't try to romanticize it. I'm a dirt bag, dude. I like I I like I mean, I don't have a I mean my primary toilet's a gas station toilet, you know. Like I'm just like there's nothing that glamorous about it. Uh I was before I got on this podcast, I don't even like, yeah, I'm in my buddy's house right now using my buddy's laptop. Like I haven't looked in the mirror in Yeah, dude. Yeah, thanks, Isaac. Uh and uh like yeah, dude, I didn't look in a mirror for like a day or two before this, and I got on the webcam and I was like, oh, I need to brush my beard.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah, we need people like you though, dude. The sport needs people like you. I we can't have all this like I mean, listen, I'm all for professionalism. I think it's great. I hope athletes make a ton of money. I have no issues with that. But I think the soul of the sport needs like it's for the love of the game, dude. Like you're in this because you love it and it's very obvious. Not not because you want to make money or you want to do this or you want to do that or some ulterior motive. Like you do this 100% because you want to be there and you want to put this time in, and you're this is a noble pursuit, right? Um yeah, it's my rant there, but yeah, we we need people like you. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

No, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Like this is this is my this is where I find purpose in my life. You know, there's there's other ways and through community and stuff that like give me purpose, but yeah. I I found out a long time ago, like there's a couple options. You can bust your ass and and keep pursuing the next raise and the next paycheck and the next level up, or you could just lower the means of living in general, lower your means of living and just embrace the things that you love and that are accessible to you. And like we're so fortunate to be here in the United States where there's so much public land and so much in the Western United States, so much sick public land to go explore and test yourself on. So that's what I fell in love with, and that's what I've been pursuing for a while. And I mean, maybe I'll come to regret it when I'm an old man and I still have to work or whatever, but I mean, I'm just chasing my dreams at the moment, you know, and yeah, it's working out, and I I I absolutely love my life for sure. And it's not for everyone, but it definitely works out for me.

Obsession, Risk, And Projecting Beta

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah, dude, you gotta pursue what gets you excited, man. I think that's what it's all about. And you guys, you know what? There's a lot of people, and maybe they're listening to this podcast right now, or there's people walking around out there that you know just never went for it and they they got into that, you know, working 60 hours a week type of thing, and they're miserable and it sucks. But that's why I think it's just so important to follow, you know, follow your inner voice and do the things that you want to do in life. You only get one shot for as far as we know.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

So yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And you're only young once, right? Like how old are you? I mean, one of my main I'm 29 years old, I'll be turning 30 at 30 at the end of the month. Uh but yeah, like I said, you're you're only young once, you know, and like and one of my main goals as an athlete is longevity as an athlete. I want to be doing this for the rest of my life. I want to be doing this well into my 50s, you know. So that's something I'm always keeping in mind with my training and how hard I push myself and listening to my body and stuff, but yeah, I don't want to get to 65 or whatever the retirement age is these days and be like, alright, now what am I gonna do when I'm like broken and busted and can't get things done? Like, I'm a young man now. I got the I got the fuel in the fire now, I'm just gonna pursue the things I love to pursue.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Do you do you identify more as like a runner or or a climber? I find this interesting because you've got this like you remind me of I don't know, I hate to like pull out like a uh like like a quote from um uh Empire, like what is it? Uh Valley Uprising. Did you ever watch that? Uh I did watch that amazing documentary, but like it's like a very sick stone monkey kind of kind of uh like um almost like some of the guys that like lived in that valley in the Yosemite Valley, like very like that type of mentality, or or even from you know, runners of the past, you know, the more dirtbaggy type of lifestyle. Um you know, do you identify more as like a runner or or more as like a climber? Because you kind of have this like interesting mix of both, dude.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah, absolutely. I mean yeah, I don't know. I I don't know. I I I am a runner for sure. I run regularly and I run hard and I love running up mountains and running down mountains, but I'm I'm not the best runner in the world. Um, and that's not my sole purpose. And I am a rock climber. I uh I climb all the time. I was in El Dorado Canyon this morning just climbing on with ropes, you know. And and also like a lot of bolder people in like my current audience or the people of like I've come on the radio for or on the spotlight for, like I some of my biggest accomplishments in the past have been on the bicycle, actually.

unknown 32:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Um but yeah, I don't know. I am a runner, I guess. I am a mountain climber. Um I don't know. I think the Sportiva team, I like a mountain athlete, you know?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

That's that's how I say it.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah, because there's just that's what it that's what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

It was interesting, like even when I was talking with Kelsey about the contract and signing with La Sportiva, she said she was like, Yeah, we want to put you on the team. And I was already just like, I was mind blown. And but she was like, Yeah, and I think the mountain running team is the good fit for you. And I was just like, never even fully even like, I was like, Oh, I'm definitely not gonna be on the rock climbing team, you know, but like, yeah, I guess I am this weird anomaly, like, where do I fit in? And it's definitely not where like the sport is as a whole or like popularized, like that's just not the style of running I do. So it's really cool that Sportiva is like investing in athletes like myself, I guess, that are just making their own way and doing their own niche things, if you will. I think it's so important, man.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Because like, yeah, you can go out and you can sign. Listen, there's there's plenty of space in the sport for someone that's coming out of a D1 school that has a huge running pedigree and and they're gonna be the next like big Hoka thing, right? But like I think that when it comes to the FKT scene, it's such a sole aspect of our sport that and it's really exciting for me, and this is where I will give Sportiva their their credit, is because keeping uh you know, we need those athletes in the sport. We need to support those types of athletes. You're Aaron Tuns, your Chris Fishers, athletes like yourself that are doing really per not pursuing the racing scene, you're pursuing the FKT scene and uh making a go of that as a career or that aspect of your career, you know, in in the scope of what you do. So I I like seeing it it's nice to see that like we still do that in the sport. And it hasn't just become this uber professionalized thing like cycling now, where there's not there's not there's there's not a lot of gray area, right? Is what I'm trying to say. Even running in a lot of spaces. It's you know, we've uh we've become so professionalized. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I think it's amazing. We do need both though. Um, we still need the gray area where the soul of the sport still lives and where people are still chasing these mountain objectives that are not on these contrived courses, if you will, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, it's cool. There's room for us all for sure. Um yeah, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, like you said, it's I think it's cool. And it's for me, like I said, everyone's motives is sick, and I think people are pursuing races is just really cool. But for me, like, yeah, it's just it feels more wholesome to be like pursuing that conquering of a landscape or like getting to know an area so well that I'm moving so efficiently, and it, you know, like that's what really inspires me. Where like the race side of things, yeah, it's just more performative, right? You're like you've got your nutrition dial, you know the paces you're gonna hit. Um, and it's just like all broken down to a science, dude. I don't look at my splits ever at all. Like like the terrain I'm moving on, it just doesn't make any sense. Like half my miles might be 25 minute miles, but it's like that was cooking. So it doesn't matter for me to look at my my watch at all, you know. I'm just like more in tune with how my body's feeling and the terrain that I'm on, and then I just determine whether or not I'm going hard enough based on those factors, you know. So it's yeah, it's it's for me, it just feels like a more yeah, I try to say I'm not philosophical and here I am trying to say like just being in tune with myself through nature, kind of transcendentalist kind of thing, you know. Are you are you a GPS watch guy?

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Like I I I'm I'm I'm kind of curious to guess on this.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah, I do have a GPS watch, yeah. I've had one. Um uh actually upgraded this year because my watch was pinging too much and some of my boulder friends were giving me crap about it, so I had to get a better one that didn't ping as much. Yeah. Uh I love, I mean, I'm a nerd about that stuff too. I'm not trying to say I don't look at that stuff. I'm a straw of a hound, bro. I'm looking at GPS tracks and segments all the time. I want to see what people are up to, but yeah, so I'm tracking it for sure. But like when I'm in the moment and I'm running the mountains, even if I'm just running up Green Mountain or doing a skyline effort or something like that, I'm not checking my pace. I'm just I'm feeling how my body feels, you know. And then if I'm feeling good and the lungs are burning hot and the legs are in unison, then it's just that's where I want to be. Or if I'm not feeling good and I feel off, then I'm just gonna trot it, trot through it, you know, and it's not gonna be a big deal. There'll be another day. Um, yeah, maybe that's part of the reason I don't I have raced before in the past and I've had some success in some smaller races and ended up on the podium in several races before, and but it's just like I don't know, there's just too many factors, you know, and then you get to the starting line and everyone looks fast in their kit, you know, and I'm just like, holy crap, I'm gonna get stomped, like all these people look so fast, and everyone's got all their nutrition dialed, you know. And I mean, before this, before I signed with Sportiva in January, dude, I I was like uh two pairs of running shorts and one shirt kind of guy. Like I don't that's what I have, you know, that's what that's what I've had for so long. Yeah, for me, it's just more about like just being in tune with myself and in nature in in unison, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

I love it, man. Listen, dude, and you got like I said, I said this before, like you gotta do what's you, you know, and if that's you, then you know that's your thing. And one thing I do say, you know, I I think I've always enjoyed, I've I mean, I've this is my third year as a sportiva athlete, and I've always enjoyed like you can and I think I could say this. I don't think there's any issue with saying it, but like you can race whatever you want, you could do whatever you want. There's a lot of support there, like they're very supportive of the things that you choose to go chase. Like, I've never once been like pressured into doing something like I I know with a lot I have a lot of friends on different brands, and they you know, a lot of times there's certain races that you gotta go do. You gotta go do a UTMB race, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. And I I do enjoy the fact that like it's um yeah, there's just no pressure to go. You you do the things that you're excited about, and that translates. And a lot of our teammates have had a lot of success doing stuff like that. So it definitely uh it's um yeah, it's it's a cool environment for sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Yeah, I mean yeah, it's super cool, and I feel super fortunate to be on Sportiva for that reason specifically. Um yeah, so when I was gonna get signed, um yeah, I guess a little background is like I had met Kelsey previously, and then she obviously started following me on Strava and saw what I was doing and was keeping an eye on me, I guess, and I didn't really know that's what was going on. And then I took down the FKT and I just approached her. I approached her, yeah. I just asked to have a meeting, and not my I was asking to ask her how I should approach other smaller companies. That's where I thought I was. And I just wanted I had no idea how the process went. It was all new to me. So it was really just gonna be like friend meeting in my mind. Like, how how do I reach out to these companies? What's the next steps for doing something like that? And uh I I got I met up with Kelsey and right away. She was like, What do you want to talk about? And I was like, Yeah, I think I'm ready to take my athletic career to the next step. I want to score a sponsorship, and that's as far as I got before she was like, Yeah, I thought that's where you were at. We would like to put you on team. And I was just so caught off guard, I was just like, What? But she was really cool in the sense of like she was like, I think it's and I I told her, like, it I was not expecting this, I don't know what to think. I need to like think about my options and stuff. And she was like, I think you should definitely think about your options, reach out to some other companies, see what they say. And um, I did reach out to a few other companies, and I did get uh offer from offers from a couple other companies. Um and I was just looking at just like talking to some of my mentors, looking at some of the websites of these other companies, and then Sportiva, and then essentially one of my really good, reliable buddies and mentors is like, dude, like you don't align with these other companies. It looks like you align with like what Sportiva is doing, like you're a mountain athlete, you're pushing that mountain athlete space, you know. Like I really love that about the company. It seems to be about the sport of running in the mountains and pursuing mountain goals and not so much about things that are fine, but like not about the sport inclusivity or trail run like racing specific races or looking for these specific results. But yeah, like Sportiva seems like they're pursuing the athletes that are just making it happen in the in in in the backcountry, and and that's what I was looking for. So that's why I decided to go that route. And like you said, they've just been so supportive. Like they want to know what I'm up to and they want to know that I'm working, but I think they trust me, believe in my stoke, and believe in my like passion and desire to keep pushing, and that's what they're that's what they bet on, essentially. They're like, he's going to continue to do these things, and that's what I plan on doing for sure. So yeah, I feel very, very fortunate to be on the Sportiva team for sure.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Oh that's awesome. No, you're a great addition, dude. I love it too, because you're it it's you're very bolder. This makes sense. It's like a good, you know, like a hand in a glove, you know. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna take that as a compliment. No, that's what I mean. Like it's very bolder because you have the flat irons. Like you're you're that's the those are the types of FKTs you pursue. I don't know. I I find it it's it's very cool, um, and it makes sense. And we got we do we got the best shoes, bro. What what shoes are you running in these days? What are you rocking?

What’s Next In Rocky Mountain NP

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yeah, uh it's crazy. So yeah, the shoes are great. The shoes are so durable, um, and the rubber sticksy sticky, the friction red, is just like a really sticky rubber, and uh I love that. Uh I've been mostly doing uh levantes actually.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Dude, I almost ordered a pair for myself the other day. I was thinking about so my wife wanted to get a pair, and I'm like, alright, I'll order a pair for you. Let me know how you like them. I'm like, maybe I'll get some for myself. I heard amazing things. I know Davide runs in them occasionally, and I've heard uh and I know Jackson runs in them too. So what's your take on that? Oh, that's sick. What's your take on that?

SPEAKER_00 41:50

That's sick.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Dude, I didn't even know it's a woman shoe it's a women's shoe, first off. Like if they don't sell it, and it's not it's not a men's shoe, you know. So like it was never on my radar, but I had an opportunity to order a bunch of Sportiva gear before I made my decision, and then I have just this really nerdy buddies who are like, oh, you should try this shoe. And I was just like, alright, I guess I'll order it because I can, you know. Uh it's a sick shoe. Um, for me, it seems like so it's a shoe designed by Sportiva women athlete, um, and for for women's feet, I guess, but for me it kind of reminds me of the Captiva in a lot of ways, which is a discontinued shoe that people really liked from Sportiva. Yeah. I love that it's got the sticky rubber on it, it's got like good ground feel, it's not like crazy stack height, it's not super bouncy rubber. I love that responsiveness, especially on super technical terrain. Like, I need to know what's happening under my foot. And then the upper, I have a super high volume foot. And on all shoes that I've been wearing for a long time, I've been modifying them to like so my foot feels comfortable in them because they're so high volume. But the Levante is a stretchy upper, which is something that you don't see in much sportiva shoes in general. And like, yeah, so my foot feels great in those shoes, yeah. I and I'm stoked on those shoes for sure. Like the Levante was one of the reasons I felt comfortable signing the contract. Like, if I have to wear all the gear, I want to be comfortable in it, and I want to be able to sell it for them and not feel like I'm selling out, you know, like selling something I don't believe in. I really like those shoes. They're cool. I've also been running in um prodigious since the release. Sweet shoe. And I've been yeah, uh I've been stoked on those for uh anything that's actually a trail run. So if I'm just like sticking on trails and running, I've been doing Prodigio 2s. Uh feel like a pretty fast shoe, actually. They upgraded the rubber and they made a little bit more space in the midfoot, so that was huge for me.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

See, I feel like the ride is better. I don't I don't know. I was just uh I was talking to Liam the other day because we were in that meeting and he was asking about um you know what people thought about it. And I I feel like it feels like a completely different shoe than the PRDGO one, at least on my foot. I don't know. Like I I think it's if I was to take the Pre Gio one versus the PG. Too. I think it's a 10 times better shoe, in my opinion. I think the ride is better. And I do have a wider foot, but I think that that works well. He said that the foam, they're they're making these in the same factories as the Pregio Pros and the Pregio Max's. I don't know if that's information I shouldn't be giving away, but whatever. Long story short, the supply chain is in the same. So he said maybe there's more that's why they could be different, but I don't know. I feel like the foam is is softer, less dense, um, more responsive, and just a more cushy ride, in my opinion. Like I I've been training, I probably put like five or six hundred miles in that shoe in the last like month and a half. Like I I love that shoe.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

So yeah, I've like I have on my first pair, but I've done like four or five bigger runs in them or um mountain runs in them, and I think they're a sick shoe. For me though, like I'm definitely there's still a place for the original prodigios in my arsenal, in my quiver of shoes, if you will. Um I get a lot of my shoes resold for the style of stuff I'm doing, so essentially what that means is like I'll take it to a cobbler, he'll sand down the sole on the shoe, and then stick approach rubber shoe or approach shoe rubber on the front half of the shoe or whatever. And yeah, the the Prodigio ones like feel almost to me, since I have such a high volume foot, they feel extremely precise. You know, it's like one step down from a climbing shoe for me. So but I can run in them too, which is really sick. So yeah, no, this is something that's totally new to me too, dude. It's been sick to like get all these different shoes, yeah, and just nerd out and tinker and yeah, it's been dope.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Yeah, no, it's there's some good stuff there. Would you what kind of like uh because I know the new produce or the new produce, the new uh Sportiva Story in Salt Lake actually has uh they're gonna have like a resolver, like you can go get the uh your shoes resolved, which is dope. I I don't know, I don't think we do that in Boulder, but like if they did, that would be sick. Do you get like why don't they do that here, man? Why don't they? They need to do that, yeah. I'll ask these questions, but this is a question that's somebody should ask. Uh do you get like Vibram outsoles or like what do you what do you put on the bottom of your ship?

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Yeah, yeah. I'm I mean it's this is not something special or unique. I've been doing people in the flat irons have been doing this for years, but yeah, it's um uh the Vibram dot rubber is what it is, and it's uh like I said, approach shoe rubber, and the shit is magnetic brows.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

I've heard amazing things. Yeah, yeah.

Van Life, Purpose, And Longevity

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Oh yeah, it's it's it's a game changer. I was so mad. I I uh when I originally started projecting the top ten, I had no resold shoes, and then finally I was like, I'm gonna go and my buddies had some resold shoes and they said they were great, and then I went and resold them, and then I got on some rock, and I was so mad at my friends, I was like, why did you not tell me to do this sooner? Like, it's like magnetic. It was crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Interesting. Well, there you go. I know a lot of people listen to that. A lot of our listener base is on the front range, and we have a large listener base in Boulder, so you probably just gave if they didn't already know what to do, now you now you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

So now, yeah. Now the line at Rock and Riesle is gonna be even longer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Yeah, dude. Oh well. How do you deal with that in Boulder? Like, I I'm down in the springs and like we're just starting to get into tourist season now, and it's driving me crazy. Like, I'll go, I'll do like one, maybe one or two workouts on the incline a week, depending on like what type of block I'm in. Um, and like, dude, it it's bananas now. How many people are like here? Is it the same? I know I've only been to Boulder like once in the last like I don't know, four or five months, and it's it's every time I'm there, it's like super busy. How do you deal with that as a as an athlete? It's gotta be annoying, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:26

Dude, this has been so new for me. I mean, like I said, I was in and on the western slope, and I would go on a run and see one other person, maybe. Maybe, you know, and like I'd run however 15 miles and see one other person. It is totally different here, and it's been interesting for me, and I've had to adapt to that for sure, and especially like climbing or soloing. I had to get over like a stage fright thing, you know. Like before I was just me on a cliff band, and then now it's me on a cliff band, and there might be like 16 college kids like snapping photos or whatever and like blasting music on their speaker. But it is avoidable. Uh definitely. I was a little worried about that moving to Boulder, but there are trail I just hit different trailheads, dude. Like if it's crazy, like I I exercise right in the middle of the day, so it's never too bad for me, anyways. Like, but if it's if it's a crazy time, if it's a busy time, I'm just not parking it to Tauqua Park, dude. I'm just you know, I'll park it in car and and head south, you know, and then you'll you can get away from people. There's so much public land here. So yeah, it's been a thing that I've had to deal with, but it's still avoidable, and it is it is like something that is manageable for sure. Manageable for sure.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I don't know. It's like that's like the hardest thing for me to deal with because it's like, yeah, like the springs have always been pretty quiet. Like for a metropolitan area, like you can just about get on any trail. And I do a lot of social trails as well, but man, some of the Lamons now, I'm like, wow, this is like it's uh people like coming here now. This is crazy. Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Uh I mean I I I grew up in the yeah. I I grew up in Colorado Springs, actually, like that's where we moved to from Texas. Um, and I lived in Colorado Springs, yeah, until I was like 18 years old. And dude, that place has changed. Like oh, it's so busy and crowded now. And I go down there, I don't even recognize the place anymore. I was like helping support a friend on a on a project they were working on on the incline during October. And dude, that thing is like when I lived, when I lived in when I was going to high school, that was illegal. It was private property, it wasn't maintained at all, they hadn't cleaned up those steps, you know. Dude, now it is a zoo on that screen is insane. Yeah. Yeah. But that's Colorado at this point, right? That's where we're at. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

That's why I said I was like, man, I'm I'm going north, go to Wyoming or Idaho.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Yeah, I know, yeah. Maybe once I like solidify myself as an athlete, I might have to get yeah, I might go back to the Western Slope or something, we'll see. But I don't know. I also I I think it's good to lean into it. That's something I've seen from my mentors. That like, you know, you look at these people you look up to, and you you it's like when you have parents and then you become a parent, you're obviously trying to look at the things they did right and improve on it, you know. And I like to lean into the community, dude. I think that's one of the sickest parts about Boulder. I like train with guys on a daily basis that are stronger than me in certain aspects, and it just makes me a stronger athlete. Yeah, dude. I'm just a stronger athlete because of it. So yeah, I just gotta embrace it, you know. Like um, sometimes I'm chasing carrots, you know, like I see someone up the trail and I'll like try to catch them, and sometimes I find out I'm the carrot getting chased, and some young dude like comes up on me, and I'm like, dang, all right, well, that's where we're at right now. So and it's great, it's motivation, it's it's cool. You don't always have to be the fastest guy, and and it's cool to share the public lands, it's good people are getting outside. It's super awesome stuff.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

It's true, it's true. No, it's a good sentiment, it's a good place to leave it on, too. Caleb, I dude, I can't wait to run with you. I'm so happy you're on the team, and it was great getting to meet you. And uh, yeah, man. Hope we have many more conversations down the line. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Yeah, dude. Thanks for having me. Yeah, let's definitely get out for a run sometime soon, bro. I'm I'm down. Oh, absolutely, dude. Come on, come on.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

Next time we do a pod, too. I gotta I'm I'm working, I'm just just painted the walls. I don't know if the audience actually can tell. Uh yeah, the wall went from white to green. There's gonna be like things in the background. So I'm building like an actual studio here. We're gonna do like a little studio jams. So start doing more in in-person stuff down within the next like, I don't know, six months or something like that, five or six months. But yeah, so you and I will run definitely before then, definitely the summer. So we'll be in touch.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Hell yeah, dude. Sounds good. See you around, my man. Yeah, man. Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

What'd you guys think? Oh man, big fan of Caleb's. I am so excited for what he's gonna do in the future, and uh just excited to uh welcome him uh to the show. Very fun conversation. Um, you guys can best support him. I'm trying to find his Instagram right now. You can find him at Caleb Speedbump on Instagram. Uh give him a follow, let him know what you guys thought about the episode, and uh send him some love. You can also find him, it's gonna be linked in the show notes as well, um, both his Instagram and his Strava. You can find him at Caleb Hardaway on Strava. Give him a follow there as well. As this guy is constantly doing uh big fun things in the mountains, uh particularly around Boulder, and uh, especially for the summer, he's gonna be a great follow because I'm sure he'll be doing a lot of stuff around Long's Peak and uh some of those uh in the Indian Peaks wilderness area. So, guys, uh thanks for tuning in. If you've been enjoying our episodes, uh everything from the trail team to some of these other episodes, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you consume your podcast. Definitely pan on over to YouTube and hit that subscribe button. Um yeah, where you can watch us on video and stuff like that. And one of these days I'll get around to putting videos on Spotify. I'll market on it. Just a one-man band here. So, guys, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much.