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Grant Colligan | Gorge Waterfalls 30K Pre Race Interview
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A course that makes you hammer 5:15 pace on the road, then immediately asks you to thread technical trail like you still have fresh legs, is not a “standard” trail race. Gorge Waterfall 30K is built to punish hesitation, and that’s exactly why we wanted to sit down with Grant Colligan before the gun goes off.
We talk through why Grant originally saw Gorges as a chill rustbuster after a disrupted winter, and how that plan changes fast when a deep, aggressive start list shows up. Grant breaks down what makes this route feel like “death by a thousand cuts” instead of one big climb, and why the race may tilt toward short trail athletes who can surge, recover, and then surge again. We also get into practical race-day thinking for a two-hour effort: simple fueling, bottle strategy, and how to treat the whole day like sustained high intensity rather than a long grind.
From there we zoom out to the bigger picture: coaching and pacing at Mines, the mindset shift from chasing Golden Trail Series points to picking races on “mostly vibes,” and the reality of global trail running logistics for North American privateers. Grant also shares the tactical approach he wants to take when the course hits those fast runnable sections, plus how the technical terrain could reshape the front pack.
If you’re training for a 30K trail race, dialing in race strategy, or just want a smart look at modern competitive trail running, hit play. Subscribe to the show, share this with a trail buddy, and leave a review if you want more pre-race interviews like this.
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Welcome And Wild Spring Conditions
SPEAKER_03Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello, bringing you guys another Gorge Waterfall pre-race interview. This one with Mr. Grant Culligan. Hope you guys enjoy. Grant Culligan, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, buddy? Hey, going great. Living the dream. Yeah, man. Yeah, definitely living the dream, dude. We got some crazy weather here. So it's been uh it's been warm. I've been kind of digging it, you know. Sucks for the fires. That's not good. But other than that, great for running weather. That's for yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's the first year I think I can remember of running like every month on the trails in Golden because everything faces north. So normally once it snows, you can't touch it until like the end of April and May. But this year it's been in every it's been great every weekend.
Signing Up And Surprise Competition
SPEAKER_03Yeah, dude, I got up to 12,000 feet on Saturday. I was like, wow, that was wild. In April, I was like, this has never happened before. So yeah, kind of wild, but it is what it is. Um well, dude, how have you been? How's uh you getting stoked to race this weekend? Open up the season in charge.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, punked race. Uh had a little downtime. Uh I was supposed to run the Houston marathon, but got sick the week before. So kind of called it off. Um, but then yeah, signed up for Gorges. Uh when I signed up, it was nobody else had signed up. Maybe Liam Merrill had signed up. So I'm like, oh, this would be a great like Rustbuster, just chill, go race Liam, and then everyone signed up in between then and now. So it'd be a lot more intense than I thought it was gonna be.
Course Demands And Who It Favors
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's definitely not gonna be an easy race. What do you what do you think about that? That start list. I I was gonna save this question until we got to the middle, but there's a lot of guys. Uh it's funny, I was just uh talking to Mason about this, like a lot of aggressive racers. Like it's this interesting intersection of the ultra guys that signed up, um, like your Tyler Greens of the world. Unfortunately, I heard Caleb's not gonna be there, he's not gonna be racing, which is a bummer, but you got your Tyler Greens of the world coming from the ultra side, but you've got like your guys like yourself, Remy LaRue, Mason Copy, guys that are more from the short trail side that also race much more aggressively and much more in a high frequency. What do you what is your take on that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's uh kind of I talked to Liam just like quick today, and it seems like this race is kind of a weird intersection where it's when you're on the trails, it's pretty technical, but then there's sections where we're gonna be running like 515 pace, so like marathon on the road pace. So um it's gonna be, I think it's gonna kind of Mason has to be like the favorite. Uh he's so fast on the flat right now, um, and he's just he's so good on technical stuff that like it kind of suits him really well. Um but I do think it's gonna be kind of more towards the uh the shorter stuff guys. Um it's gonna be a little different in that uh imagine is there's gonna be a lot of fast running kind of in between the technical sections. So it isn't like uh it isn't like a mountain race, like a circ series where it's like you're you're gonna go to death on the uphill and then throw yourself down, it's gonna be we're running hard the whole time. Um so kind of I don't know much about these ultra guys. Um I mean, I know they're really good runners, but uh are they kind of in 215 marathon shape? I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, we'll see. It should be fun. We're gonna find out, dude. Yeah, this course is interesting. It is. It's and it's kind of deaf by a thousand cuts. Like it's not, like you said, it's not just one 2,000 foot climb and then throw yourself down. It's it's a lot of eccentric and concentric loading, both up just a lot of up and down, a lot of up and down. And then like you said, you're gonna find yourself on these road sections where you're absolutely it's a flat road and you're absolutely hammering. So yeah, it's it's uh yeah, I don't know. I I honestly like I'm gonna do a race preview episode, and I I don't I don't even understand like what predictions I have yet for um but I do know the short trail guys I think will will have have you know do obviously very well. Dude, this is a this is a big opportunity for you. Like if you have a great race out here, um like ACG is sponsoring this race. Obviously, Free Trail does an amazing job at getting athletes' names out there into the world. Um, like this could this could really be big for you. Have you have you thought about that? And does that put any pressure on your race, or does that, you know, kind of playing with house money? You're just out here to have fun, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I kind of the I ran with some boys uh this weekend and they were like, oh, how did you set your schedule this year? And I said, it was mostly vibes. I just wanted to pick races that I feel like would be fun. And kind of when I signed up, the thought wasn't like, oh, this is gonna be a hyper competitive race and it's gonna people are gonna see it. It was more of like, uh, I like the I lived in the Portland era for two years, so like kind I don't know these trails, but I know the kind of trails. So it's definitely more of let's get out there, have fun, and let's hammer and see what happens. Um I do think if you like put your pressure on yourself for this kind of stuff, like, oh, I need to do well because there's gonna be cameras there, um, you don't really set yourself up for success. You kind of you gotta get out there and run to your fitness. Um if it's a good day, it's yeah, it's it's because you trained well, it's not because it was just a crazy fluke or something. But um no, I'm excited. I've had a uh kind of a weird uh build-up. Um I uh help coach at Mines, and so I've been kind of pacing the Mines boys and the girls uh recently. So I feel really good in like running like a 62 second quarter, um, but haven't really hammered the like big mileage yet. So it'll be uh interesting to test the fittest. But it'll be fun, yeah. Um go out there hammering and hold on and see what happens.
SPEAKER_03Let's uh yeah, let's talk about the distance because this is a little bit, I mean, you've run, you know, I don't know, you I feel like you you're I I know you as a short trail guy. This is it's like a 30k, what is it, 20 something miles? 20, I don't know, you're you're you're a mathematician more than I am, so I don't know, 20, 20 something. Uh we do public math on the Steep Stuff podcast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's like it's like 18.3, I think.
SPEAKER_03Is that what it is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What what do you think of the distance? Is that uh like if you started thinking about like nutrition? Because this is about, I don't know, two-hour race somewhere in that range for you, the guys in the front. Like what are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, two hours is I feel like is kind of the sweet spot for me. Kind of the it's like a broken arrow mammoth trail fest, like those like 20 to 30k mountain races. Um it's kind of enough where you need to have a bottle, um, but you can get away with kind of if you miss something, it's not the end of the world, you're only running for two hours. Um uh yeah, I mean, I'm going into it more as it's gonna be kind of like a uh pretty hard like effort for two hours. So more like a series and all kind of like you're just hammering the whole time than like a true mountain race where you're kind of setting in. You kind of gotta like, you know, you kind of like set into a grind. Um yeah. This is more it's kind of and it's kind of gonna work out for what I've been doing, kind of doing long runs with like college kids where you run for two hours just hard. Um, so that's that's kind of what I'm feeling. Um distance wise, I'm prepping for a 50k uh gonna do Xtera 50k in Malta in a couple weeks. So it's kind of cool, a little sweet spot in trying to uh kind of prep for a little bit longer. Uh but two hours usually for me is kind of the sweet spot. I'm not like blowing up, kind of hitting the wall yet. Um and you can push kind of that whole time, which I like. I don't really like kind of gauging your effort.
SPEAKER_00I'd rather just go hard the whole time.
Coaching Mines Athletes And Mentorship
SPEAKER_03Just hammer away. Dude, on the topic of the Minds Kids, I had Paul on recently. What are your thoughts? Like I feel like Paul's gonna be a problem on the trails, dude. Like I think people don't like they're not like I think the world's not ready yet for that guy.
SPEAKER_01He he is a monster, he's he's he's really fit right now, too. That's that's another scary part. Um yeah, I think we just need to get him kind of get him into a couple races. And the trail kind of efforts is really different than kind of uh college 10k cross-country effort. Um, you do kind of have to be uh it's more of a grind kind of mindset than it is kind of in in like college, you just kind of go to your max for whatever time you're running. So if you're doing a 30-minute cross-country race, you're at the level where you don't think you're gonna finish that 30 minutes for the whole time. Um and then trails, it's kind of more you push, you can you're pushing past that on the uphills, and it's you're coming back to you on the downhill. So it's kind of a different effort. And I think once he just gets a handle on that, he'll just be a monster. Um, but both him and and Grace are on the trail team this year, and they're both, I think I trying to convince Paul to do some VKs, he like really doesn't want to do it.
SPEAKER_00Uh but both of them kind of with the training they do now are just gonna be monsters in an uphill once they uh kind of get a handle on that. Um they just have to decide they want to do it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. No, I think, I mean, I think Andy made some great selections there with those two. Uh yeah, the trail team, it's very cool. And it's cool for you, dude. Like you're you've kind of kind of grown up like in the last few years, kind of through this, and now you're kind of like a mentor for these athletes, which is neat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I do feel like the old man now. I I wasn't going there, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's it's true. I kind of uh kind of graduating in 2020, uh there like wasn't that many opportunities from like 2020 to like 2023, so I was kind of in no man's lane doing nothing. So I kind of started trail racing a little bit later when I was a little bit older, but kind of now I I turned 30 this year, so at least kids I keep getting older and the kids are always the same age, so it's it's fun, but I keep getting better every year. So keep doing it.
A Vibes-First Season Race Plan
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you're in your prime, homie. That's it. Um, you got Xtera 50K. Talk to me about the schedule, man. Like, what do you what do you have planned for this year?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, kind of like I said before, it's kind of just like the stuff I wanted to do. Um, so I'm gonna do uh a gorgeous 30k this week. Um, I'm gonna do uh it's kind of a quick euro trip. I'm gonna do it's called a what do they call it? It's Innsbruck Trail Fest, Alpine Trailfest. Uh I don't know. The the translations from German don't always work. Um but it's uh it's kind of a cool one. It's a pursuit style two-day race. So we're gonna do a VK on the Thursday, and then it's like a 25k mound race the second day where you start in the gap from the VK. Um, and that's at the end of the first weekend of May. Um so that should be a cool little event there. And then a week later, I'm racing in Malta at the Xtera Trail Run Champs uh in the 50k. Um flattish 50k in the desert there. Uh then gonna do GoPro games again. It's a fun little vocal race. Um get beat up by Mason or whoever else shows up there. It's the most competitive race no one knows about.
SPEAKER_03You're lucky because I think a lot of those boys are gonna be at Sunope. It's the same weekend.
SPEAKER_01I know that I thought about which one to go to, but the bail is just so easy. Um yeah, uh, and then after that broken arrow, uh VK and 23k, yeah, the regular mountain race. Um yeah, again, crazy competitive. Um I think Gorges is gonna be kind of like a mini setup to see, kind of see where I'm at there. Um, especially see how close I can get to Mason. Um I don't know which race weans I'm gonna end up doing. Uh but yeah, it'll be a good gauge for that. Uh and after that, we're gonna do bar trail mountain race.
SPEAKER_03Oh, cool. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I yeah, I I was supposed to message you about that. We got you in Pikes Peak. We know that's how we gotta message you about BTMR.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I mean it's if you do Pikes Peak, yeah, like everyone should just do bar trail because it's like the the hard part of the race is bar trail. So um yeah, I'm gonna do that. I that was actually my first trail race I ever did in 2023, and uh I think I turned at the top pretty close to John, uh as is um and then like 200 meters in, I like fell and like fell down the side of the trail and like scraped up my whole sides and stuff, yeah. Um but I made it down. I I think I got third, but I was kind of behind John and Joe at the bottom there. But uh like I was all scraped up now. I was like, oh, do I really want to keep doing this? Like this kind of this is rough. But yeah, I stuck around. Um uh then after bar trail, gonna do the USAT at 50k champs at Y East Trail Fest, um, which is also part of why Joe is gorgeous kind of do a uh like practice run flying to Portland to just like make sure everything's easy, um, which should be a good one. That's a tough that's a tough course. There's like 9,000 feet of climbing in a 50k, which is pretty big for the US.
SPEAKER_03Um that is a great race and slept on too. I'm glad that's the 50k champs, because that's that that type of race, and just like racing out there, I feel like needs to get more shine. That's a that's a good area.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the the kind of cascades is so different than even like this here in Nevada's everything on the West Coast. Uh the yeah, run it on like the scree, and it kind of goes forest scree. There's like no kind of intersection. Um it's it's pretty fun.
SPEAKER_03I love how the lower too, which makes it feels a lot better in Colorado.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you you feel like you're so high. It's like 6,000 feet. You're like, oh, I'm in the Alpine. Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Um, and then after the hikes peak, and then there's real fast. Um so uh kind of pack schedule, but all kind of stuff that it's like uh races that have been good to me and then I've enjoyed. So um kind of try them again. And it's and the years pass I've been kind of focused on like just trying to do golden trail. And I don't think that led well to like training and racing well, because I was like, oh, I have to do this race and get this place to then do this race and then be disappointed when something little messes it up. Um yeah, this year it's just like I'm gonna go to these races, try to win, have fun, like vibe. I don't know.
Golden Trail Series And Global Racing
SPEAKER_03I like the vibe, go off vibe. Well, dude, like I feel like you people athletes do their best work when they're excited, and it's it's a it's just a different feeling. Like, and they're take the pressure off yourself. Um, actually, this is a good question for you. I find that's interesting because like you you had been chasing Golden Trail. This year is particularly difficult. We've had one North American race, there is no uh US race, and the finals in Asia, there's like back-to-back-to-back races in Asia. Um, I just feel like it's not conducive for the American athlete right now. At least this year it's not.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean it's it was tough kind of doing it as like a privateer anyway, because um what it turned into was kind of I only had three shots. So it was like the three races I could make it, the th was I was I was gonna pay for, get there, and then if something little went wrong, you're kind of for you're screwed. It was over it was over compared to a European who could, oh, I didn't do run well uh in Italy, I can go to Sears and all in two months and and get another spot. So um it's it's kind of never off like favored Americans, but it's even worse now. Um, and it's just yeah, it was one of those where it was like kind of planning a Euro trip and kind of what races I wanted to focus on. It was like it didn't really make sense. Um the the only race that really intrigued me was the new Japan race. Um the old race was like a lot of stairs, like both up and down, and this new race is more like actual trails the whole time. And I'm like, I thought that might be cool, but it yeah, it just didn't work with the schedule. Um but the the oh the other one was the World Cup finals for World Mountain Running is in Canada this year. Oh, you're gonna do that. Uh probably the same thing. Do the both to the BK and the mountain race or up and down. Um and I I think that's gonna be a really fun kind of competitive race because it's every every mountain runner seems in the US and Canada I've talked to have been like, yeah, why why wouldn't you go to that?
SPEAKER_03So everybody's gonna be competitive, yeah. It's gonna be a big one this year. Shout out to Julian, he's been putting together a good feel. Um yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be a banger for the especially for October. I feel like we all need something to do in October, you know, and now we know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it should be fun. I mean, it's it's nice to have competitive races not in the Alps, and so this should be should be cool, should be uh kind of uh more runnable, might still be steep, but it's gonna be shorter. So yeah, I'm sure I can get Andy and I and we'll take it out of 430 mile or something stupid. Harass the people, yeah.
Race Strategy And Key Matchups
SPEAKER_03All right, so on that question, this is actually I can't remember. I don't think I asked this. I asked this to Mason because Mason is a lunatic when he races and drops everybody in the beginning. What how do you how do you approach a race like this in the front? Like, are you gonna just try to keep contact with the front guys? Or are you just gonna go out because I feel like who's in the front? Mason, Tyler, yourself, um, Tyler McCannless, I should say. So yourself, Mason, Tyler McCannless, Remy LaRue, um, Liam Myro, if he if he decides to race that over the 50k. Uh like those are the ones I can I I can picture kind of doing their thing out in front. Um what's your thought on that? Are you are you gonna try to hang with them or try to just hang back and wait for guys to blow up and then take advantage in the later miles? What what do you think a strategy would be for that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's uh it's an interesting one. I don't really know much about Tyler. Um, I don't know kind of his racing style, but I mean Mason's gonna hammer. Um the the kind of weird part is gonna be kind of like a mile into the race. There's like a two and a half mile section that's like on road or like right next to the path. Um so kind of my plan was kind of stay with them to there and then jump on that and start running marathon pace, and then I'm sure Tyler is gonna stick with us or make some like take off then. Um but it's gonna be, yeah. I mean, normally how I approach is kind of going and uh kind of just running a race. Like you're not gonna win the race in the first mile, um, but you can definitely lose it. So kind of get there, just be in the right spot. Um I don't kind of knowing that that there's gonna be like weird two-mile high-intensity tempo right in the middle of it. Uh that's kind of just make it to there, kind of put in the hard work there, and then after that, kind of start rolling through the uh the more technical parts. Um yeah, kind of it is kind of weird because it's like Tyler and Mason are really, really good on the roads. Um uh but kind of in the more technical stuff, you'd think like Remy would be kind of closer to that. Uh I don't know what kind of fitness he's in right now. Um yeah, it's it's gonna be a weird one, I feel like, because it's it's so high intensity the whole time, it's not like a mountain race. Um but we'll yeah.
SPEAKER_03We're gonna find out. Yeah, yeah. The women's race is gonna be. I think the women's race is gonna be just as entertaining. Like I'm so interested to see like Taylor Tuttle and um I think no, is it Ally? I think Ally Max in this race too. There's there's quite a few. Oh really? Yeah, like the women's race is is uh is nuts.
SPEAKER_01Was Lauren? I didn't look at that, I haven't looked at the start last next weeks.
SPEAKER_03I probably should probably shouldn't have doing this.
SPEAKER_01But I mean, yeah, I mean Lauren's Lauren's a monster. I mean, Taylor is an absolute monster.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, that's that's what I meant. Lauren and Taylor. That was the matchup that I wanted to see. Uh yeah, and then like I said, you've got Ally Mac. You've got quite a few that I'm just like, huh, it's gonna be really interesting to see how this plays out. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean it's yeah, I think this one's interesting too, just with the there's like just having the flatter sections. It kind of gives people a chance. Um, but kind of what Liam was saying, um, yeah, I got the the the local beta from from Liam this morning when I was trying to pick what shoes I'm gonna bring. Uh apparently there's been like a lot of washouts like onto the trails. Um there's more rocks and stuff than the last couple years. So uh it might be a little bit more like you're stepping and picking your way through stuff than last years past.
SPEAKER_00Um but I mean the roads are gonna still be the roads.
SPEAKER_01So uh yeah, it's gonna be a weird intersection of kind of what's gonna happen. The the my hope is kind of if I'm with the front group and then we can get into the tactical stuff, we can try to run away from the guys that are kind of fitness-based, like try to get away from from Tyler and uh or both Tyler's, I guess, McCannless and Green. Um maybe kind of if we can the mountain guys can kind of push and kind of use that to our advantage, then it it kind of I always want to make the race as small as I can. If there's ten guys trying to trying to win, it's a lot harder. But if you can kind of yeah, if you can use use what you have and kind of make it a race between like two or three guys, then you usually have a lot better chance. Um so that's kind of what I thought is kind of yeah, hang on through the through the flat parts and then push through the technical stuff and see if we can fill a little bit of gaps. Um but I don't really know much about I haven't I I haven't ran against Tyler in a non-vertical race, um, so no idea what's gonna how he's gonna do on the towns.
SPEAKER_03He hung he hung in there in Sonopee, which surprised me. I would say he was like third I shouldn't say surprise me because he's such a world-class athlete, but like I was impressed with his uh with what he was doing at Sonopee. But um, yeah, I don't know. I mean the dude is such a good marathoner, so like I don't uh yeah I I really don't know who who is gonna like I have zero predictions right now because it's also coming off of uh a little bit of an injury and he I if even he is is not sure. He's gonna be fine. Have you seen his latest workouts? Like, dear lord. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01All right, we saw him coming down Green Mountain on Saturday, and he was fine. He's gonna be yeah, he'll be fine. Um no, it's weird because it's like racing in Europe most of the time. Uh kind of my advantage is the running parts of the race, like where you can actually put the power down and like run. Um, but it seems like more and more that's kind of all of the Americans like best qualities now. I mean, between like Taylor Stack and kind of the boys that are kind.
SPEAKER_03The sport has gotten so competitive. I when Paul Knight comes in, I'm I'm done. I'm retired. It's over.
SPEAKER_01He was hurting last year. He did GoPro last year and he was hurting on some of the other hills. But we'll get it into it. It'll be good to go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I've met him first when he he beat, I think he yeah, he beat Ace at Kendall in like three years ago. He was like 18 or 19. He was still a kid. Uh, and that's where I found out about him. So that's what that's why I've always been yeah, a big Paul fan.
SPEAKER_01So he'll be fine. We'll get him, we'll get him going.
SPEAKER_03Well, Grant, thank you so much for coming on, dude. Wishing you the best of luck, safe travels. Uh, get it done, man. It's gonna this is a great opportunity. It's gonna be fun to follow along for all of you guys. And uh yeah, wishing you the best of luck. Appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you, sir.
