Tyler McCandless | Gorge Waterfalls 30K Pre Race Interview

A stacked start line, a rolling course that never lets your legs settle, and a late climb that can flip the whole day on its head. That’s why the Gorge Waterfall 30K feels like more than “just” an early-season trail race, and why I wanted Tyler McCandless back on Steep Stuff for a pre-race check-in. Tyler comes from a deep road and track background, but he’s been sharpening his trail running range, and this two-hour sub-ultra effort asks for the full toolkit: speed, strength, patience, and smart decisions when everyone around you wants to surge. 

We talk tactics and how a mixed field changes the pace, with short-course racers more willing to light it up early while ultra runners may wait for the back half. Tyler breaks down how he’s trained differently to build durability, leaning into longer mountain runs with real vertical gain and more time in the weight room so the climbs and descents still feel runnable late. We also get nerdy about gear, including hydration for longer trail races and shoe choices for a course with both trail and road sections, plus what he’s learning about traction and ride in models like the Norda 005 and Nike ACG Ultrafly. 

Then we zoom out to the bigger picture: sponsorship cycles in sub-ultra trail racing, the rise of serious prize purses, and Tyler’s WMRA World Cup plans that include Beijing and the once-in-a-lifetime thrill of racing on the Great Wall of China. We close with his road ambitions too, from chasing another Olympic Marathon Trials qualifier to the tricky balance of using super shoes for speed without inviting hip and hamstring issues. 

If you’re into trail running, Gorge Waterfall 30K previews, sub-ultra strategy, WMRA racing, and the real decisions athletes make behind the scenes, hit subscribe, share this with a running friend, and leave a review with your favorite race-day lesson.

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Transcript

Welcome And Tyler Returns

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oriello. Excited to bring you guys another Gorge Waterfall 30K pre-race interview. This one with Tyler McCannless. Hope you guys enjoy. All right, Tyler McCannless. Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

It's going really well if I'm back on the Steep Stuff Podcast, because that means there must be a race soon. That's right. Excited. That's right.

Stepping Up To Two Hours

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Dude, we're here. We're here once again. I feel like we uh we got a little break and now we're now we're back, bud. Now we're back. Exciting. It is exciting. Yeah, no. Excited to talk, all things gorge. I feel like uh, dude, this is a little bit different and unique for you. I mean, you come from the marathoning and half marathoning world, but up until this point, I feel like you've done a lot more uh vertical and short trail races. This is a little bit different for you because it's it's a two-hour trail race. So what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah, I had to like buy a waist belt to carry fluids. Like this is new to me. Um, but you know, I I like shorter distance trail. It's kind of at the longer edge of the the shorter distance trail, but I'm excited to have put together some good training over the last many months, and it's just a great opportunity to kind of start trail racing season. I haven't raced in a while, so it's um pressure's kind of pretty low on this one, and it's just gonna be a great opportunity to go out compete against some great guys and see where my fitness really is.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Dude, this is this is gonna be a fun one because this is a good intersection. I was just talking to Mason about this because we've got you know this uh this contingent of short trail guys, but there's also some some ultra dudes kind of in the mix, and I feel like the ultra guys they're they're much more patient runners, they they're they're strategic in the fact that they sit back, but like I don't know, like I I know how Mason races, and I know you're gonna probably go with Mason, and I know it's in a very aggressive type of uh racing up front. What what what is your kind of take on the some of the dynamics of this race? Like and how you think this will kind of play out?

Course Profile And Race Tactics

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I think it'll probably be pretty similar to the headlands uh 28K that was like a couple of years ago, and it was like a golden trail race, and I did that one. And yeah, people go out really hard and and hang on. Um and it'll be interesting to see how the dynamic plays out on this one. Knowing that I don't know the course, but having looked at the course profile and kind of heard about it, it sounds like it's a lot of just like up and down, up and down, up and down, and then there's like a bigger climb. I think it's after a mile like 12 and a half after the last like aid station. So it'll be interesting to see, you know, if there's some level of conservatism until it gets to you know the bigger climb uh in the back half. But I think all of us are nobody's a season trail racer this season yet, because it's been winter, right? So like we're all just getting into the racing mindset. So yeah, we'll see if it goes out quite so blazing fast and uh fun opportunity. Yeah.

Building Trail Strength And Durability

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Mason promised that he he's not gonna contribute to it, he'll just be there. I'm like, yeah, right. Uh we'll see, we'll see. Um this is an interesting race for you in the sense where you have a lot of tools in the toolbox. Uh you're a very complete athlete. And I feel like you showed that you're we already knew you were in a very good vertical runner, but at Sunnepe, for instance, you showed that you can hang with those guys on the descents, on technical descents, and things like that. This course is unique because there's a lot of road sections, and I feel like that fits your skill set particularly well with your marathon and half marathon speed. Do you think there'll be opportunities for you maybe in this race to exploit that on maybe some of the ultra guys that might not have those wheels, you know, in in in or maybe not have the kind of the wheels in those departments, if you will?

Shoe Gear And Hydration Choices

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah, last year I did a lot more trail than roads. And this was probably the first year in my career that I did more trails than roads. And I I learned a lot about my strengths and my weaknesses. Um, and one of those weaknesses was probably having like the durability to last in some of the longer races. Like my legs wouldn't be under me in the climbs and the descents later on in the race because I had done a little bit too much faster work and VO2 Max type work, and not done the repetitive hills and the longer runs. And that's something I've changed up on this like last few months is I've done uh a bunch of runs with Adrian McDonald in the mountains, and you know, Adrian's racing as well. He's a Leadville, multiple-time Leadville champ. Um, and we've done 22 milers with 5,000 feet of vert, and that's something I haven't done before. So, to to your point, I think I have the two decades of road racing and track experience, and you know, the faster running comes relatively natural uh to me. But now I think I have like the strength. I've been definitely hitting the weights more to build up that that strength as well. So it'll be interesting to see how I feel out there um on Friday because uh training's been just slightly different, some of those tweaks to work on those weaknesses and hopefully complement the strengths that I have um in trail racing. I love it. What what have you been wearing shoe-wise lately?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

I know I've seen you, I think in the Nordas, right? A bunch, Lila.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

I I've been changing it up. Um, you know, I had no shoe sponsor, so I've been appreciative that um some brands have helped me out. Uh uh on is sponsored or sponsors, Adrian. Adrian gave me some on shoes. Those have been great. Um Nike, I really like the AGC Ultrafly. It's like a I like the original Ultrafly, but the AGC, the updated version is um pretty impressive. So I'll probably be racing in that. I love the Norda 005s. Uh I think it's probably like the best vertical shorter distance shoe. Um when I've raced in it in the mud, the traction's been a little questionable. So I think the um the ACG shoe, sorry, from Nike is probably the one I'll go with. But yeah, I've kind of been across the spectrum trying out a bunch of shoes and um yeah.

Sponsorship Cycles And Staying Focused

SPEAKER_00 6:09

You walked right into my next question. Um so ACG is gonna be there. It's an ACG sponsored event. Um, and I feel like Free Trail does a great a really good job of putting, you know, shine on athletes that perform really well. You have a great opportunity of doing well at this race, and I think it's a great opportunity for someone like you who doesn't yet have a shoe sponsor. Um, talk about that a little bit. I I think this could be could just be a huge opportunity overall for you with a good result.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah. Um, you know, of course, I hope that uh I'm getting some some brand recognition, but yeah, I really just want to have a comprehensive, complete season on the trails and really demonstrate that um, you know, continuing to be one of the best guys in more than just the uphill running and across more varied, you know, terrain and disciplines. Um so I'm not putting too much into one race. I think honestly, the I've tried being um you know, promoting to get onto a brand's team, and it's been very difficult. And there doesn't seem to be a ton of brand support for the subultra um this round, anyway. Of I think it kind of goes in cycles. Like Brooks signed a lot of athletes in the Sub Ultra like last year, and then I'm not sure any new names came onto the Brooks team this year. I think that's just like an example of their cycles with each of the different shoe brands. And I don't think there's like a hot cycle around subultra right now. So I think you know, Mason's another great example. He's been absolutely you got shows, man.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Yeah.

Family Travel And Keeping It Fun

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah, it's been, I think, unfortunate for both of us, but yeah, I'm not um just trying to run fast to get a shoe sponsorship. I want to go out there and and see, you know, how fast I can run, challenge myself, um, and continue to learn and grow in the sport. I might be 39, but I feel like I'm still growing with every workout and learning and trying to master the craft, and this is just another opportunity to do so. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Are you gonna be uh out there for a little bit? Are you because obviously races on Friday? Are you gonna kind of take in the festival and spend some time around there on Saturday and get to explore some of the area?

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Uh a bit. So we're taking the the whole family's going. So Jack is three, he turns four next month, and he's been obsessed with whales. So we're gonna go to the Oregon Coast and spend two nights and do a whale watching um trip to like celebrate his birthday a little early. So the whole family will be there, it'll be really fun, and then we're gonna make sure it's like a a family uh weekend as well. Have the kids been to many of your races? Anything that's drivable, absolutely. Okay, and then they've they went to Broken Arrow last year. Again, take the whole family to Broken Arrow again this year. Um, so more often than not, we try to bring the full crew.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Sweet. Oh, I love that, man. It's always cool when you can kind of bring the family in and get to it. I don't know, it just makes it where it's it's not just about the result, it's about you know something a little bit bigger because you're inspired, you know, you get to inspire them from a very young age. You know, they get to see this incredible things that your their dad is doing, which is super cool.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Well, and it goes both ways. They certainly inspire me too. Levi's been, we want we want him to just explore sports and uh try a bunch of different activities and not you know forcing them into anything. But he signed up for like run club at elementary school, and he's been like they just run loops around, they call it a track, but it's like a paved loop around grass, um, around a grass field. And he's been doing like nine or ten laps. So Kristen went out there and like measured it on her watch and was like over a quarter miles. He's like out there running two and a half miles, and he was like, he wanted to do a 5k. So the other weekend, like I ran with him in a 5K, and it was super fun. And he's a six-year-old, and he's just like, you know, he you could tell the pride that he had in finishing. So it brings you back to the purity of the sport of why we're doing it, right? It's like just pushing yourself and um being proud of what you accomplish. For the love of it, man.

Summer Racing Calendar And Rankings

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah, it's uh it's crazy. The older we get, I don't know, we complicate things, you know, and to see kids have just like admiration for you know something so simple like that and just enjoying it, it it and it does, it brings you back. It's very cool. Uh what a shift gears, where are we gonna see you at the summer? I know you said broken arrow. Where else what else are you thinking about for the schedule?

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yeah, I have uh I haven't raced as much in the winter, partially because you know trails aren't as much open, um, especially for shorter distance, but it gets pretty busy once we get into April, May, and June. So I'm gonna go and try to do a series of the WMA World Cup events. So next we'll be in Beijing. I'll run the I think they call it the prologue, but it's like the uphill and then about a half marathon distance. So both of the World Cup events um in Beijing, and that's the end April. Then the beginning of May, go to Transvolcania and race the again, the VK, and then the medio marathon, which is like the half marathon distance, so two more World Cup events. So that'll be real exciting, compete internationally against some of the best. Um, I'll of course go back to the Bail GoPro games. I love that's kind of where I got started in trail racing. Love that event. Um do a 10K and Pepe's team competition there. And then Broken Arrow, do the the Ascent and the 23K. And Broken Arrow is a WMA World Cup event. So that'll give me six WMA, WMRA races. Um, and I think that'll give me a contention to be in like the top 10 in the WMRA rankings. So that's kind of like the first half of the season, and then we'll see if I can make another US team to compete at the WMRA finals in October. Um, but kind of the back half of the year is undecided after that busy season of racing. Very cool.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

That final looks fun, man. It's uh for once we've got one, you know, in North American soil, which makes it a little more intriguing. And I think a lot from what I I mean, I've talked to a ton of people that are gonna be out there, so it's gonna be it's gonna be a pretty competitive race, which will be, I think I'm gonna go. I don't know. Definitely we'll see. But it's supposed to be supposed to be Yeah, I mean it's it's we'll see. Oh God. My schedule's so screwed up with the podcast, but planning on intentivatively being there. But everyone I know is gonna is gonna be there, so it's should be a good time.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Yeah, without there being golden trail races in the US this year, I think that one's gonna end up stacking a lot of the the best talent at the end of season, which I think is really cool. Like one of the hard things about Broken Arrow is that it's kind of earlier in your trail racing season, right? You haven't raced all summer, so it'll be fun to see that in October with everyone, you know, final fitness, final tapers, uh concluding, you know, most of trail season.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Big time, big time. You know, I was amazed with Broken Arrow with the uh with the prize purse for this year. This is gonna be bananas. I mean, I think this might be, I mean, even most of the golden trail or a lot of golden trail international athletes are coming back over to race that race because they, you know, everybody wants to try to take a shot at that piece of the pie. Um, so this might be the most another most competitive broken arrow we've ever had, which is it's kind of crazy because we keep having those.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

It's amazing. And you know, it while I you know uh complained a bit about the lack of sponsorship on the sub Ultra, the races have done a phenomenal job, and the sponsors have done a great job of putting up big prize purses. So the the Gorge events this weekend, like all of them have considerable prize purses. You have Broken Arrow putting up, you know, record prize purse. You have the Tom Hooper's races in the Northeast, the Loon Mountains and Sonopee, they have significant prize purses. So it's great to see that part of the sport growing, and that'll bring out some of the best talent and new talent to continue to elevate the game. Um so it's pretty exciting, I think, in short trail competitions in the US uh this year.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Yeah, it's and it is interesting too, because with with Golden Trail kind of taking a step back in the United States, it's been cool to see other races and other formats kind of like pick up. Like now we have a regional U.S. Skyrunner uh series, which is dope. And there's a whole bunch of cool races with the final surrounded around that. So hopefully like that attracts a lot of young talent or just talent in general, or people that are curious about that. Plus the Cirque series, we gotta get you out to more Cirque series races, dude. We gotta see if we can pull that off this year because those are kind of close, you know, not too far away from home.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah. The A Basin one is uh intriguing in particular. I feel like everyone really likes that race. Um, that's in like September, I believe. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

You know what would be even better? Pikes Peak.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

It is on my list. I do want to do it for sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

We gotta do we got we got Chad Hall coming this year. I gotta I gotta give people, I gotta get people in to give Joe, you know, a hard time. Can't he can't just have it all, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

That's right. You know I like to race Joe, so that helps bring me there.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

That's true. Yeah, you guys. Dude, rendezvous. I might go after rendezvous this year. I was thinking about that because that's a cool uphill race. I've never done that, and it's been on my list for years, and I just never could fit it in with the schedule.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

That's pretty amazing. And August in the Tetons is just absolutely gorgeous. So it's always a great event.

Great Wall Dreams And World Racing

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah, big time, big time. Dude, are you what's the excitement level for some like this Beijing race to go like race in China? And then like that's gotta be. I I think you're like probably one of the few Americans that I've spoken to that are gonna be doing some of the WRMA races this year. So though that like that's really interesting and very cool.

Marathon Goals And Super Shoe Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yeah, you know, last year competing at Worlds was such an amazing experience against uh a diverse international field, and uh the opportunity came to to go to it, and it was fascinating to to have that opportunity. I mean, when uh when else would you get to go race on the Great Wall of China against some of the best trail runners in the world? Like that is absolutely phenomenal. So yeah, it it got me motivated and inspired to to get even more fit, and um yeah, can't wait to have that opportunity. Cool, cool. After the season's over, are you still chasing big marathon goals? Is that is that still in the plans? 100% because I I need to try to make my fifth Olympic marathon trials and I haven't even I was actually talking with Kristen the other day. I haven't done a marathon in like two years, it's been a very long time. Oh wow. Um, surprisingly. Um, but I I really wanted to get the the strength and a little bit more just like focus on the trails and feel like there's been other seasons where I felt like I've dabbled a little bit too much in like doing track work and road work and then racing on the trails and just being too much of a generalist. And I wanted to make sure I had more of a dedicated, I'm gonna give it everything I can this, you know, this time period for having a great summer on the trails. Um, and then in the fall, like I I definitely want to try um uh try to hit the fifth Olympic trials qualifier. So I gotta run some 216. I also really want to try to win the masters at New York. So I turned 40 in October. Nice. Um, so that would be kind of fun, but it's a harder course to go run a 215 or faster marathon. So I'll have to think a little bit more deeply on like which marathon or marathons. Um but yeah, eventually I want to rip a faster marathon. And I haven't PR'd in the marathon with super shoes, so I feel like that that's kind of bad. I should. Um, so eventually I'd love to break the 212 mark as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

What kind of super shoes do you wear? Like on the like do you still do like roke workouts like on the roads and trails in like like hardcore super shoes?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Or if I'm on the roads, like the Puma uh what's it, the uh fast R3 is is kind of outrageously fast. Really? So like yeah, but if I'm not doing road work, I do think doing too much work in super shoes has kind of bothered a a hip and hamstring of mine. It's just a little bit more hip extension than you know traditional shoes. So I've tried to temper down the amount that I'm wearing super shoes and just save that for kind of some of the bigger key workouts. Um, that's been a lesson I've I've learned over the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

That's interesting, man. Yeah, I the reason I ask is because my I really got obsessed with the Socony and Dorphin Elites like on the roads. Love those shoes. But like I've had like five or six hundred miles of them now, and they're kind of like beat up. So I'm like, what's the next super shoe I'm gonna get for road workouts? And you're the second person that's talked to me about these pumas, so I might have to check them out.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah, the I have to say the the Sokani and Dorphin Elite 2 is like really close. It is so super soft. Um yeah, like pillows, it is so fun. Um, but I I don't know if like doing too much in soft, soft shoes. It's not good for you.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

I think that's why I got injured last year, honestly. Because I got a little too too crazy.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

So it's hard balance, but like you do want to maximize running fast, though, right? So, like, how do you find that ideal balance? I think we're we're all still navigating that. And as I'm getting older, I'm you know, wanting more cushion, wanting to like support my legs more, but also like not have the wrong patterns in you know my gait because of the super shoes and doing too much of them. So still figuring out that balance a bit on the roots.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Well, when you said something about your hip, that that's like the light bulb went off of my head, and that's why I asked that question because I was like, huh, that's the same thing I had. And I wonder if like too much time in super shoes caused. I mean, this is like obviously over a year ago, but too much time in those. And I'll try to cut it down to like once every two weeks now because I've seen a lot of people have like Achilles injuries and all different kinds of injuries from those shoes. So you're probably right, the movement pattern just over like in your form probably gets completely screwed up in those things. It's hard to say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

It is, it is.

Final Wishes And Wrap

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah. Well, Tyler, wishing you the best of luck, man. Absolutely gonna be a barn burner of a race. I hope it's an amazing day for you. And uh, dude, looking forward to many conversations this summer. I can't wait to talk to you at Broken Arrow. I'll be there this year in person. We're gonna be doing all kinds of fun stuff with the podcast, so we'll get to hang out. Um, and yeah, it's gonna be it's gonna be a fun summer, man. Looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Amazing. Thanks for having me on. As always, James.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much.