#172 - Marcel Höche

A top European trail runner lands in the US, strings together races and workouts across the West, and leaves with a clearer view of what makes American trail running culture feel so alive. We sit down with Marcel Höche, professional athlete for the Adidas Terrex team, right after his spring swing that includes Big Alta and a podium at the Lake Sonoma 50K. Along the way, he breaks down what surprised him most: the speed of the fields, the variety of terrain, and the post-race community rituals that turn a hard day into a shared celebration. 

Marcel walks us through the reality of racing Lake Sonoma, a course that looks runnable until you feel how “relentless” it is, plus how weather swings and mud can become an advantage if you thrive in rough conditions. We also talk training and travel, including his time in Cedar City with Hayden Hawks, syncing workouts with his coach and finding the right terrain without ego. If you care about trail running performance, mountain running preparation, and the small decisions that shape a season, this conversation is full of practical insights. 

Then we go behind the curtain on pro team support with Adidas Terrex: travel planning, housing, physio, chefs, media help, experienced crewing, and why removing that mental load can change how you race. Marcel is also candid about the pressure that can come with resources, his coaching relationship with Dmitry Mityaev, and a training approach that prioritizes heavy strength work and high-quality sessions over piling on “junk miles.” If you’re building toward big goals like UTMB week races, steep European mountain events, or long ultras, you’ll find plenty to steal for your own plan. 

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Transcript

Welcome And Marcel Hua Joins

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Loriello. And today I'm so excited to be joined by Marcel Hua. Pronunciation for his last name would be in German. And uh in American, we would see it probably pronounces like something like Hush. Um guys, super excited to catch up with Marcel. He is out just finished up and wrapped up his American tour where he was out here this spring, uh, where he got to throw it down at the Lake Sonoma 50K as well as the big Alta 20 AK finishing on the podiums of both. It was really fun to catch up with them. We talked a lot about just comparison and contrasting of cultures, what it was like spending time on here. Obviously, this is not his first time out in America racing, um, but just kind of uh went through his American tour and some of the things he got to do, uh, like train with Hayden Hawks out in Cedar City. Uh, he got to see Flagstaff, ran up grandeur in Salt Lake, obviously explored the Bay Area in San Francisco and just kind of toured uh the American West, which was uh pretty fun. So it was cool to catch up with him, talk about what's next on the horizon for him for racing throughout the rest of the summer, what his A-balls are, and uh just learn more about him. I hope you guys enjoy this one. Really fun episode. Marcel is a uh professional athlete for the Adidas Terex team. So we did also talk about what it's like being on that team, some of the perks uh and fun um, you know, just fun perks you get as an athlete for uh for Adidas. So enjoy this one. Without further ado, Marcel Hua. Marcel, welcome to this deep stuff podcast. How's it going, man?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, thanks. Uh it's been heavy, yes, but um, yeah, it's been it's been going great for me. Thanks. How are you? I'm doing great.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Excited to have you on. You are, I don't know, like maybe the second first or second Euro guest I've had on. So I'm excited to start expanding out, dude. We get get get you know a wider audience here.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah, yeah. Who was your first guest?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Uh uh, you know what? It had to have been well, does uh does British count now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

British counts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Okay. All right. Sure. Yeah. Uh George Foster. He's uh used to run for uh yeah, for um Hoka EU. I think he runs for I forget who he runs for now, but yeah, he came out for the Pike's Peak of Sen a while back and we we had him on. Legend. Absolutely legend. Great guy.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Well, when it comes to accent, you're you're going um into a into a wild direction. Yeah. British is okay, but now he's got a German on, so that might be tough for your listeners.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Listen, man, I'm working up to it. I'm I'm gonna, it's gonna be layers. So first we'll have you, and then we'll we'll get like really difficult. I'll have like El Housine on one of these days, or I'll start really swinging for the fences. Well, dude, I'm I'm so happy I was able to connect with you. You're obviously in America right now, kind of on this really fun little American tour where you ran a few races. Um yeah, maybe maybe talk about your experience so far. I know you've been to America a bunch of times, but this time around, maybe talk about your experience, talk about some of the races that you've been running, uh, and just what you've been up to in the last month or so.

Marcel’s Monthlong American Tour

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah, man, it's it's been absolutely great. Um, I'm um yeah, I just finished um a month here in the States. Um, I started here in in San Francisco, I'm back in San Francisco. Um, I came here for Lake Sonoma, that was my big goal, um, just this past weekend. And yeah, I decided um that I want to stay a little bit longer than just you know, like a week, 10 days. You know, it's it's not so much fun, like you're jet lag the whole time. And you know, when you come over here anyways, like why wouldn't you stay a little bit longer? And you know, where I'm from, the the the the southern part of um Germany, or where I usually stay, not where I'm from, but where I usually stay, um, you know, March is is tricky. Like usually there's too little snow to ski, but there's too much snow to like properly run. Sometimes it starts snowing again, or it's like wet and gray, and all you know, all this, all the kind of scenarios that you don't really love. Um, so I said, let me come out in in March already. Um, so I ran uh Big Alta to to start with, um, just a few days after I got here, I ran Big Alta, the 20k round, um, like I said, just here in the north of uh San Francisco, and then I traveled around a little bit. Um, so I flew to Salt Lake City and then stayed there a couple nights, then went um to Moab. Um found that place, by the way. Jesus, that's something else. It's something else. Uh at my hotel saw someone uh wearing uh like a bib. Um so that was like Friday evening. Um found out that there was this race going on the very next day. Um uh like got in contact with the race director on on Instagram, and then he said, Oh yeah, if you want to run tomorrow, like no worries, um you can like come by in the morning and we'll equip you with a bit. Um so I did that. Um just a 10 mile in Moab and the behind the rocks. Um so that was fun. My coach had like a um like higher lactate run planned anyway, so I I quickly talked to him and we agreed that like it was like an okay thing to do. Um so that was Moab and then Flagstaff, and then um I stopped by Las Vegas actually, um, because I was on my on my way. That was like, yes, it's it's it's fun. But after like one and a half days, I was um very happy to um keep going to Cedar City, stayed with Hayden Hawk Hawks for um a few nights and his family, um, had some uh great workouts with him. Um and then back to Salt Lake City just to fly back to uh San Francisco, and then my teammates from Alidasterx they joined me, uh picked me up in San Francisco, and we drove um to Santa Rosa for the Big Alta. Um that was a couple of days ago. Um, and now I'm back in San Francisco just for another um night now, and then I'll be going back home.

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Big Alta 28K And Marin Trails

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Oh wow, dude, what a trip, man! Yeah what did you what what did you uh think of the big alta race? I I know that the 28k is I mean, there were some speedy guys in there. Aries Rabbing, who's a new up-and-coming name, and then Joe and DeLeon, who's another uh speedy guy. So interrupting this episode to talk to you guys about Cedas Socks, the official partner of the Steep Stuff Podcast. How much do you guys love your feet? I mean, I do. I love my feet. I really care about my feet, but I also care about your feet. But not in that way. Get your mind out of the gutter. CETAS Socks, keeping your feet stable, protected, and in control since 1975. Bringing you guys an anatomical fit and superior hybrid composition materials. CDUS incorporates odor control, ankle support, and anti-slip grip strips into some of my favorite models. Check out the Runatomic Comfort and the Run Anatomic, two of my favorites, online at CDUS.us. CDUS is the official footcare partner of UTMB in Western States. Cetus, your foot company. Get to mix it up with uh some of the Americans.

Post-Race Culture And Craft Beer

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, I mean, I expect it, you know, like a very fast race. Um in Germany, you can still find like a couple of like low profile races where um, you know, like you can like run at the front like without even pushing like super hard. You know, every once in a while you can find a race like that. Um, but I was clear that it was probably not going to be like that. Um you know, I'm like I like racing five to eight hours. Like that's my that's my sweet spot. So I knew it was going to be hard. Um but I also thought it's it's a pretty good preparation for for Lake Sonoma and everything else that comes um this season. Um I had uh like basically before this season, I had two seasons without like a proper off-season. Um I I I stopped running in November and then I had competitions again in in January, February. So um when I finished last November, I like took properly off for more than three weeks um and was then starting to build up again. Um so in March, you know, I felt like I could like run a proper 28k and but not like a 50 or 100k just yet. Um and yeah, and I also didn't want to like jump right into the 50k then in April, like Sonoma, but I wanted like something to build up with. Um, and then you know I saw that race from you know uh Debo, who I've been like chatting to every once in a while um for years now, and I thought, hey, it's the same area that's Lake Sonoma is in. The weather at this year like could be like pretty promising. Um so it's like yes, it's it's a it's a no-brainer, let's let's go there. And I really, really enjoyed my time um in the Marinwoods area and the headlands area. So beautiful. I mean, you have the coastal trails. Um, I I spent a lot of time. There's like a small Redwood area where you don't have to like pay any entrance. I I ran there a lot, so like even went there in the afternoon to to go and read a book. I just love the Redwoods so much. Um, and yeah, yeah, the the the race was was great as well. Super speedy course, obviously. Um two-ish big climbs, and then like a long, steep downhill back to the back to the finish. Um, it was very, very fast uh two-hour race. Um, but so beautiful. It was very hot, hotter than it usually is around this time of the year, I was told. Um and yeah, then you know, like you guys do it in in America, and I think this is something that we have to like learn from you guys. You know, there's like a nice get together um at like with a beer around like after the race. I I love that. Um, talked a lot to Ares, apparently the fastest guy or fittest guy in in Boulder who took home the win, and also Johan. Um, the two of us, we've got a um good friend, uh Jash Run Small in common. Um well done to you guys, mate. Uh great results in uh at Gorgeo Waterfalls, that was crazy. Um yeah, so yeah, it it it was a beautiful weekend, like meeting meeting some new people, um meeting some old friends, Debo and and uh and Tesla from from Durango. It was great, it was absolutely fantastic. I loved every second of it. So cool.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

I got a question for you. So after in Europe, I mean I have not raced in Europe yet. I plan to, I'm hopefully gonna go over for a sky running race next year. Oh sweet. Um yeah, I either want to do Sky Race Day Meth Sin or um Calamaro, but uh we'll see. One of the we'll see what happens. But uh anyway, um, dude, you guys don't have like beers and like get together after the race. Obviously, that's a little bit smaller of a race than usual. Um, but like there's not as much of like a community aspect post-race for you guys.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

I mean, I I wouldn't say that we don't have a community aspect or whatever, but first of all, we don't have like IPAs and craft beers, you know. Like we we we we think we know how to brew beer since 1516, you know, which is when like someone put this law together that says like beer can only have like water, yeast, and and hot, you know, and nothing else can be in the beer. So we haven't really changed like brewing beer ever since. And that's cool, it's like tradition, but you know, they all taste a little bit the same. So like here you have the the IPAs and the hazy IPAs and all that great stuff, and I love that a lot. Um and yeah, but like I I mean you do get together like at the race village, like until the ceremony is, but then after that, like everyone kind of goes home and and that's and that's that. Um yeah, and here we met I can't even remember, was it the same day or was it the next day? No, I think it was the same day, but obviously we ran only for two hours quite early in the morning, and then I could even like have some rest, you know, and then was like a little bit recharged to actually um like you know, in like two showers and then went back to um this uh this this post-race get together. And like in this kind of sense, like even at a different place, like at a nice brewery, um, like microbrewery where they do their own stuff and shit. Uh yeah, no, we we don't really have that, no.

Training With Hayden Hawks

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Wow, yeah, interesting. This is I I like the cultural differences, it's always interesting to hear because yeah, in the United States, it is it's it's very much the vibe of like, I don't know. And this is it's funny, this has been on my mind a lot because I want to start more community stuff and more like a run club where it's basically you just go run up a mountain and run down and you drink a case of beer after and you just kind of hang out, and it's more of a more of a community vibe, you know. And I think that's very much kind of what the sport started on here, and it's it's it's obviously morphed a lot, but yeah, it's interesting. Um, I want I want to shift gears a little bit and talk to talk about uh training and getting to spend some time with Hayden Hawks. Um that's a name most folks on the podcast are probably familiar with. Hayden's a legend uh at this point, Hall of Famer for sure. What was it like getting to spend some time with him in Cedar City and just getting to run around, do workouts, and uh yeah, just hang out with him?

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah, it was great. Um I mean I have so many like good things to say about Hayden and his and his whole family. It's it's been so much fun. I think I was there for four nights or something like that. And you know, like he he is not far from the the Kenyon 100 race, so it's it's not like he was just having like an easy time or like doing whatever, you know, but um like we matched workouts and we said I I I talked to my coach a little bit just so that like we would be 100% aligned, uh his plan and mine. Um and that and and that worked great. I mean he doubled with a like uh with a big um like weight sessions the day that's on the Sunday when when we went out for like a pretty pretty good run, I would say. Um we did what did we do two times 45 and then uh three times three times 15 minutes. It was a big session. Um was kind of flatish. Like he asked me like what kind of terrain I wanted, what kind of profile. Um, you know, instead of like saying, like, mate, I've got in in three weeks' time or four weeks' time, I've got the Kenyons coming. I think three weeks, I've got the Kenyons coming, you know, I I want to like secure my golden ticket there. Like it has to be like this terrain. Like he was like, oh you know, oh you know, like I have still like tons of time, I have another two long runs coming, so you tell me what you want to do. And I said, Well, you know, like making making miles is is what I noticed helps me quite a bit. Um so if we do, you know, like something, like a like some rolling terrain, I think that would be great. So yeah, he was he was open for for all of it, you know, like whatever I wanted to do, we we did. Um was pretty much a marathon um that we that we did that day, pretty, pretty, pretty fast one as well. Um yeah, and then he would you know double all those days. Um so either either jump on the on the bike um as a as a second session um or do some weight training while I was like then you know like kind of starting to get like two or three key sessions in, but you know, other than that, um like keep it real uh because like Sonoma was coming up, my first A race of the season. Um yeah, with with this it it it it worked like super fine. Um good meals together, amazing conversations with with him and his wife, and um also his son. He's got an amazing, he's got two two kids, as probably most of you know. Um yeah, but Crosby and I, his his son, we we kind of clicked, and um I don't know, we had like some amazing conversations, and uh like we flew some airplanes together, and and yeah, he had like I don't know, like 30 different designs of airplanes, and I thought it was pretty cool, and and he liked that I was interested in that, so it was fantastic. We talked about um sodas, like what kind of sodas he liked, what kind of sodas we've got over in Germany, and what my favorites were, um and all these things, you know. It's it's it was it was it was a very, very, very nice time. Also, in the he showed me um just a little unfortunately just a little bit. We planned to be in the Zion National Park a little bit longer, um but it had uh rained the the day before. Um so he was afraid that uh the trails would be like too muddy, and and that mud, I I saw some of it. Um it's really trying to say in English, um it's very clay, so yeah, yeah. So yeah, it it wasn't it wasn't too promising. So um we just had a 90-minute run uh in Zion, which which was absolutely amazing, though. I like the Red Rock, I think it's just so beautiful. Um that's what I liked about um obviously as well. Um so yeah, that was that was it was all fantastic, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah, it's unique. It's it's interesting because like Hayden is, I feel like he's like a pros pro. He's like I think like one of the on the American side, like very tip of the spear. Um just like very dialed. I know he's like big on sauna, very he just like kind of checks all the boxes. He's a professional's professional, and he's kind of I feel like really helped establish that professional culture in America because guys kind of see what he's doing and kind of copy, and it's kind of built it up from there, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

100. And he's so humble about it at the same time, you know. Like he's like, Oh, you know, Macy, like you want to do something steep, you want to do something flat, like we'll make it work, and I want to show you this trail, I want to show you that trail, and like what kind of food do you want after, you know, versus like just saying, like, mate, you're in my house, like I want to get the golden ticket, I want to win like Kenya, I want to win Weston soon, you know. Like it's either this or you know, it it wasn't like that whatsoever. So yeah, it was it was so, so good, really. Very cool.

Lake Sonoma 50K Course And Mud

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Let's uh let's pivot and talk like Sonoma, because I feel like that's a you said that was an A race of yours for this year, which you had a great finish at. You're on the podium there. Dude, talk about that race. I actually don't know much about that course because I know it's they've changed it a few times. Obviously, the 100k used to be used to be a golden ticket race and used to be like a huge huge because where Jim used to go run and Cody Reed and guys like that, and now it seems like it's had this like rebirth, and it seems like Adidas Terex, I guess, sponsors it for the uh in the last few years. Yes. Um yeah, talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah, I I I hope I won't tell like rubbish now, but um so I I can tell you lots of lots of um how it is now. Um obviously, like everyone also in Europe, you know, if you're like a little bit like into the trail community, you you know that like Jim and the guys did like crazy, crazy performances there because as you said, it was the golden ticket race. Um I don't think the golden ticket race was the 100k race, though. I always thought it was the the the 50 mile, yeah. You you're very right. It was the 50 mile. Yeah, yeah. Um so that was like somehow the the OG course, I would say. Um which I would have loved to race, by the way. Um 50 miles would have been like my sweet spot um entirely, and like I like you know, like like we now established, like that was the that's kind of like the OG. Um Hunk was gonna be too much. It's like a it's like a L-shaped out and back, like a double out and back, basically. So you go out and back this direction, back to the race start, and then you go out and back on the other direction. Um like the 400,000 meters of climbing um in the feet that is 13 or 14 or something like that. It it wasn't you know, it was it wasn't it wasn't flat, so I felt like the the 100k were too much. Um so I went to the 50k, which is a pretty logical course. It's the first time that they ran it at this time of the year. I think the they might have had it before, but anyways, last year. Was a marathon. So now they added another 8K, made it a little bit hillier by that. But it's like a pretty logical course all around this really, really nice lake. And to be honest with you, I thought it was going to be more runnable and faster. But like the race slogan says, it's relentless. And they're right about that. It's definitely a relentless race. It's always kind of steep up or kind of steep down. Or very steep up and down. There's like not no easy miles. Or it's always like, even if it's like kind of flat, it's always like twisty, or like there's the like a tree over the trail, or or something is always going on. And I loved that. It's a really nice course around this beautiful, beautiful lake. And the competition was there. They have also this very strong community approach. So we had another um post-race get-together the day after, where basically they they celebrated and thanked the the volunteers, especially. Um beautiful. Um wine tasting at the um the post-race uh get together, and that was the first for me as well. Um it's it's a it's a great race. I I enjoyed the course so so much. It was it was good fun. And at the end of it, I was sure I wasn't running the 50 miles, but um that was over. It rained like crazy um the the day before I think it started. Um so it was um much colder than what sounded like reasonable. You know, given that the first three weeks of my time in in the States was so so hot. So um temperatures dropped a lot and it started raining, so the the course was uh pretty um pretty muddy. Um but those are just the conditions I absolutely thrive in. Um so so that was fun. You know, we were like properly like dirty and filthy at the end of the race. Um just like just like we want to be, you know. It's it's I yeah, it's it's it's a great race. You guys should all go out and and and give it a give it a go.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

How was it having uh a bunch of your teammates there? I know uh like quite a few of them of the Terex athletes. Uh I know Cole Campbell was there, quite a few guys and gals uh showed up. So that must have been fun as well.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Yeah, that's how we do it. Um we we have um so-called team races where um you know they're they're on the on the on the global team calendar, and then um at some time of the beginning of the year, you kind of talk to to management and you see like which of these team races you want to uh you want to join. And then it's like you know, uh like this, like a summer camp almost where where I get to spend time with some of my best friends, um, the my colleagues from the Artidas Running uh Pro team. Um and that's yeah, that's that's absolutely amazing. I mean, we we support each other before and during and after the race. Yes, we do race um against each other too, um, but it it never really feels that way. Um I'm you know what I mean. I mean, we would never uh like hold hands and run over the the finish line together, um but we would like support us like throughout the race, and then at the end of the day, like someone is faster than the other. We are happy for everyone, we are proud of everyone, and um afterwards uh we we have a good time together, um just like during the race or before the race. Um and it's I I always perform better at those team races because I have this incredible support network around me. Um I've got someone who helps me, you know, who crews me um during the race, um, helps me figuring out this, you know, like the tiny, tiny little things that can be quite um demanding when it comes to mental energy, something like you know, getting through the race, booking accommodation, um figuring out when to pick up your bibs, like all these kind of things. Um so we've we've got support um for that, and it makes it even more enjoyable, even more fun, um, and most of the times uh even more successful. And even if you don't have the perfect race, um then someone of the of your team will have had an amazing race, and then you're just happy for her or him. Um and and and that's great. I mean, many times just like this very weekend, um, it's also a little bit of a shame um because like if it wasn't for my teammates, I would have won the race, right? Um I only I I I finished third, but um it was only the guys who were only there because it was an Adidas Terex team race. Um so if he had cancelled them out, I I I would have won. I was in that situation quite a few um times over over the last years. Um but it doesn't matter, right? Um these two like definitely helped me to um you know like show my best um and and race me harder than I would have when when they hadn't been around. So yeah, it was it was absolutely great, just like it is all of the time.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Who who was wait, was it Robbie Simpson that won? I know Cole was in front of you in second. Was it who who won the race?

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Yeah, so it it it it it was Robbie and I was it it was many um I've raced Robbie many many times, and um unfortunately I've never um come come um come out of top on top. Um but yeah, Cole Campbell, he was he was charging ahead. They were like a group of three initially, um a Norwegian cross-country spear who has a um um what's the English words? Uh you know, if you if you go to university and you don't have to pay for it. Uh a scholarship? Yeah, he's got a scholarship at Western University in Gunnison, Colorado. Um these guys brought a couple of very strong runners, and and the three of them, um so Robbie Um Cole and this guy called Anders, um like they they went hard out, and and I just knew I I had to run my my own race, otherwise um I I like I shouldn't go with them. They they went out very, very hard. Um and Cole in the end, like he like during the middle of the race, he even opened the gap um to Robbie. Um but yeah, he he paid a hard, like a big price for it. Um so so he kind of uh died off during the race. Robbie was then able to catch up with him and even open quite a few minutes, I think four minutes or five minutes on him towards the finish line. And under the the young prosperity spear, um he completely like he blew so many matches um while trying to catch up with them. So kilometer 35, I overtook him and then um also opened quite a big um um gap over him, which allowed me to then finish finish podium. And yeah, it was so Cole was pretty much in the middle of uh yeah, like right in the middle between um Robbie and me. I think four minutes behind Robbie and five or six minutes ahead of me, something like that's still a super strong race. Cole Cole is such an amazing guy, and um I'm very excited what he will pull off the in the next few years. I think um he's going to be one of the best ones.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, dude, you guys have an amazing team. I mean, we have Hannah Allgott in Colorado Springs. Um she trains out of here. She's another one. She I think she she won on the female side, which was crazy. You guys have a phenomenal team you're building, which is which is great. Good people, all good people.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Oh yeah. I joined the team in in 2018 basically, but I had been a product um developer for Adidas Terex before. So I worked on trail running shoes, um, put back some of the OG shoes that we ran back then. Um and yeah, the the teamwork aspect always has been so important for everyone who made the decisions like who's going to be on the team and who's not going to be on the team. And yeah, basically, ever since we had so so many good guys. Some of them are still with us now, you know. My my coach, um Dmitry Mitjev, or um, who else is one of the like first guys to ever Evy Hall, you know, one one of one of some of them so incredibly strong and and kind and humble randers um that that I get to call my teammates. And yeah, that makes me incredibly proud.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Well, what what is it? I mean, talk about like the just the perks and how much it helps. Like, for instance, like being on a team like this, I know in Chamani, there's always just unlimited, I wouldn't say unlimited, but amazing resources available to you guys during like UTMB week and for these races that you go out to. Obviously, housing and uh physios and things like that. Can you talk about just like some of the perks that you guys get during some of these races and how much that helps performance and just helps the team atmosphere?

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Yeah, I mean it it is basically like everything is everything is taken care of for you. Um it starts with like many months out. Like they booked the accommodation for you. Um, they have a travel agency that we can reach out to, so they will figure you out when it comes to like flights or or trains or whatever um mean of transportation you you seem fit. Um this is all taken care of. Uh there were years when I ran UTMB, uh where I stayed like six weeks prior to UTMB already in the area, um, training on the course, having a physio available every single day. Um the last kind of uh probably like two weeks. Yes, also professional chefs um who like cook for us three meals a day and prepare snacks during the day. Um they kind of manage like all the media things, you know, as well for us. Then they say, like, you know, I would say no to this because like just focus and like we will send someone else or we will find someone else who can who can go, like you've already done so much, like don't worry about it. Like we got you covered. Um, you know, the the the the crewing they've been doing it for so long now. Um they they know exactly like where to park, even when the the places are busy. Uh obviously there's photographers and videographers um who've got our race pictures ready um before we even feel like going back to social media um after the race. Um you will be picked up at the finish line. You will be you will be met by 10, 15 of your teammates, like all waiting for you, all being happy for you, or all you know, like helping you when maybe you haven't had the race that you were that you were you know prepared for. Um yeah, and and it's it's incredible like what kind of like mental load this takes off you when you can like literally only focus about your race, like how to get to the next uh aid station, because you will have someone there who prepares for you whatever you need. Um you don't have to take care about like getting to the start line and and like where to park, what time to leave. Like it's it's all being taken care of. And um it doesn't sound like a lot, you know, like going to the bib pickup and big picking up your bib and having like your wife or partner or friend like drive you to the finish line. But um it it it is it is a it is a huge load off your mind that and all this energy you can then like spend into like just racing like a little bit harder and and focusing on really what you as a professional athlete have to focus on. And um it's it it's it it's easily to underestimate like what what that means and what kind of impact that can have.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Wow. It's just so crazy. I mean, I I yeah, I mean we've had obviously tons and tons of professional athletes on the podcast, but one of the questions I was never asked is like what you can actually get taken care of for you during big race weeks like this. So really interesting. And it it's amazing just like how yeah, it just lets you focus on the race. You don't have to worry about anything else. And that just I think that leads to so much better performances and uh does it does that add more pressure when it's like everything else is taken away, or do you feel like it takes the pressure off?

Does Support Add Pressure?

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Yeah, you know, it's it's that's a that's a good question. And because we also have like sports psychologists and sport nutritionists um that we can like schedule meetings with throughout the whole year, you know. Um so so that's another thing. Um and they would never say that like look, like you had uh like four physio appointments in the last week, like you better like run this or that time, or you better make it to the top 10, you know. Like they they would they would never do that. No one, no one in their right mind would do that. Like this would would definitely not help anyone, and it wouldn't be fair, right? Um but you yourself, you yeah, you are asking yourself, like, you know, like why do I have that kind of support? And if if if someone potentially even someone that I that I know um is is around there, and he or she in my case he um is on a similar level, you know, you think like, okay, like if if this guy is you know like works part-time or or help even full-time, you know, or or doesn't have that kind of support, like you feel like, wow, if if he can even beat you, um, like what am I even doing here? Why why do I have all these benefits? Why why doesn't he get to enjoy the same thing? And if and if you if he would, like would he be so much better than me? Like, you can't help yourself. Sometimes you do uh ask yourself these questions. Um and it's fair, and I think it's human, and and that's honestly like it is probably like part of the job description as well, you know. Like as a professional athlete, as a professional athlete, you you you you need to be confident, yes, you you you you you you you can and should have you know a healthy mind. Um you should care take care of your mental health. Um but then also it it it is your job to to always always think great, but how am I going to be better tomorrow than I am now? Um that is that is part of the of the job. And this is this is I think the the journey that you also agree with when you like sign something like that, when you do try to reduce all the stress factors in your life around you, um so that you can improve. It is about that journey, and you agree to that somehow when um when when you decide to go down that lane, and then it's it's natural that you that you're only um that you're only okay with with taking all these perks. Um you enjoy them, you you you are you you keep grateful for them, um but yeah, you you obviously also try with or without those perks. Um I want to be the best version of myself that I can possibly be. And if something is offered to me, um something legal, um then I will then I will leverage that price.

Coaching With Dmitry Mityaev

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Yeah. No, I think it's a beautiful answer. Um let's I want to attract this from the beginning. Actually, you know what? Before we get into your background, because it's something I actually have not asked you yet, um, I do want to ask you about your coaching relationship. Like you so you you talk you talk about you were talking about your coach earlier, um, about how you're making plan adjustments and doing things like that. Um who who you work with as a coach? And um yeah, like what does your training look like these days?

Strength Blocks Over Junk Miles

SPEAKER_00 39:10

So my coach is uh Demon Twee Meet Yet. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, yeah. Um absolutely great guy. Um legend. A legend, an absolute legend. Um and uh and a gentle guy, and that's what um he's he's so smart, so clever, um, also very, very empathetic. Um he's the biggest quad in trail running. That is him, yes. He definitely has the biggest quads in in trail running. That's that's definitely not up for discussion. Um and I've been working together with him, I think we're in the sixth year now. So I've been working with him for a very, very long time. I get to see them quite a few times of the year as well, um, because we're obviously both running for Adidas Terex, which which definitely helps. Um, and everything else happens over over WhatsApp. Um his English is a little bit worse, a little bit worse than mine, I would say. Um but when when we text instead of like have a voice call or whatever, um then it works absolutely perfectly. Um also because I don't need a mentor. Sometimes, yes, I need to talk about this stuff as well. And if I if I want to talk to him, he is absolutely willing and able to offer his opinion about things like which races to do next, um, what to focus on, what would be mid-long term, maybe the right thing to do, cancel this race, focus on another. Um, where do I want to be as an athlete in X years? You know, like we we we do have um those conversations. But being also like a marketeer myself, I I feel like that's something I've got under control. And what I really need is a someone who looks at it from a highly sports scientific point of view. And if you need someone like that, then then Dima is absolutely the right guy for you. Um and and yeah, it's it's been it's been working very well our relationship together. I feel like I am still improving. I absolutely know what we are working on now and what we have been working on, and I can feel that it has been very fruitful, and I'm very excited what the what the future brings. Obviously, the the training um it's and that's what I like and appreciate most about him. Uh, he doesn't have this one solution for every single athlete. He he, you know, like some I I coach as well, and and and sometimes you're asked on on pods um like what is your training philosophy? Like what does your training look like? And I think if if ever someone is asked that and and someone answers in a in a pretty distinct way, detailed way, then I'm not so sure if that's like very trustworthy, you know? Um because for everybody. Exactly, yeah, yeah. Um so there are of course a few rules that you can apply, um, or like a few methods that you know um that are like applicable for for everyone. But I think the the recipe should be highly individual and and also change over that over time, you know, because if you work on something else on your weaknesses, then the next step is working on different weaknesses because now your weakness hopefully is not your weakness anymore. But now something else is weaker than your whole package, you know. Um so yeah, there was and sometimes it's annoying, you know, because obviously we all want to do um you know like long runs um ideally every single day. Um, but if you want to um maximize your performance, obviously that's not really the way forward. Um so this winter, when there was snow, and I was for the first time um in two years basically um in Germany during the the actual winter. Um so I was pretty excited to do uh lots of schema engineering, um, easily long days out. Um but he said, okay, um if you if you need them mentally and and to be happy and and to be to stay motivated in training, um we can do that once in a while. Um but what we actually want to do is a hell lot of weight training. Um it it was quite an interesting uh preparation of the season, and and to be to be fair, I I was worried about it. Um Little bit at points because it was very, very different from how we usually prepared for the season. Volume was very, very low, and basically almost every run would like almost never would I just run. Almost always I was wearing a weight west and ran uphill on a treadmill. Or I was running outside, but then I would do sprints or squat jumps or squat jumps and sprints, or something like that. Literally all the time. And then two or three times a week I would also, or he training, sometimes only walking on the treadmill, uphill, but but but only walking, it would definitely get me into high zone two, no problem. You know, so the um cardiovascular response definitely definitely was uh existing. Um but it wasn't like hundreds and hundreds of case um of of running per week. Um we didn't really do that. Two or three times per week, loaded, highly like high loaded barbells, um hundreds of squats and lungs and and like little jumps with the weight on on my shoulders, um calf braces, like whatever you can think of. Um sometimes like the long barrel session would be 70, 75, 80 minutes sometimes. Um, lots of that. Um, but it helped it helps so much. It's it's foundational. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And running efficiency, you know, probably goes up like by quite a bit, and it also prepares your body just to like um handle bigger loads um better, you know, um thinking mid and long term. Um so yeah, I'm I'm really happy to have someone in the corner who has these ideas, has these um unconservative uh ideas, unorthodox methods, um, and who by now I also trust so much that he can tell me, listen, we're only going to do 80k a week now because we all we do all this other stuff and we can't do both. And trust me, it's the right way. Um I will never blindly follow anyone, not even him. Um, but I will be critical, I will give it a try, and then when it doesn't work, I I will say something, but very quickly I noticed that this is actually working very, very well for me. Um so yeah, you I guess you asked me um like what my training looked like. Um and it's it's very different from like block one to block B. Now we are back to lots of thresholds, long thresholds. Um almost like we noticed that junk miles just don't help me, they they don't bring me anywhere. So almost every single mile is like kind of hard. Um, even the easy, like we never really do easy at all. It's it's always you know, like kind of pushy. Even the long runs are just not five-hour long jogs, but are like three-hour long interval sessions um or progressive runs or something like that. So um yeah, that's that's the approach right now, and it is working this year, and it was working uh very much the whole of last season, which was a really good season for me. And um yeah, I don't know what's next. Uh what's happening next training block. It could be something entirely different um again. Um, but I'm sure it will help me to get stronger.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Wow, I love that. Dude, strength is so foundational. Like I'm highly suspect of any runner that you meet that doesn't incorporate strength training into their like routine of any kind, like especially for mountain running, excuse me, or any type of trail running. It's such a foundational piece that I think I don't know, I feel like in the last few years it's really started to catch on. Yeah, but it's uh yeah, some folks are slow to adopt it. I don't I don't understand that. But the guys that are really doing well and progressing and like really at the top of the sport, they're all for the most part like doing some sort of like incorporating strength in one way, shape, or form, like blocks of it, which is yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Yeah, but I think I mean like a little bit of core, like a little bit of you know, leg strength and and leg stiffness, yes, this has always been trained, but I feel like it was maybe as like in like slightly more intense activation before you run or like another 20 minutes after your easy run or something like that. But now we pushed it in that training block so far so that it was like all by itself, two or three entire like trainings it per week. Sessions, gotcha. And and uh that was that was that was pretty new for me. Interesting you know, like like cutting cutting cutting distance and volume by 30, 40 percent even, um and and then to put like very, very tough strength sessions uh in. Yeah.

Season Goals From Alps To Seoul

SPEAKER_01 49:27

It's interesting how different people respond to different training too. Like I've been um someone I follow who I just kind of like got hooked on their podcast, it was Ben Diemon. I was listening to his podcast and following some of his training. Dude, that guy trains like an animal. I've never seen someone train like that before in my life. Like, how do you put it? Like, he puts in like 40 plus hours a week of like everything. I'm like, how does your body like hold up and not destroy itself? Yeah, it can handle handle the load. But yeah, it's it's interesting how different things work for different people, but strength is yeah, so foundational. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Where are we gonna where are we gonna see you at this show? Like, what are what are some of your A goals uh that you want to race this year?

SPEAKER_00 50:08

So I've got the German championships coming up in in a month from now. Um, so we will like have a like uh another A-level race um very soon coming up. Um much steeper, steeper, much longer climbs um than what I've been doing so far. So um I I should be shifting gears like exactly now. Um that will be an ATK um race with almost 5,000 meters of climbing, so like a proper proper one out there. Um that will be that will be interesting and and and lots of fun. It's exactly my ballpark, I would say. Um so so that will be good, hopefully. Um and then another ATK at Monte Rosa, um, even steeper, even more technical, very technical. Um I do have a ticket for OCC, but we will need to see. I I I I signed up, um but we will we will need to see. I'm I'm trying, like I've got a like big focus for CCC 2027 um online. So so this is the next very big goal. Um so OCC is I mean, physiology, if you run six hours or 10 and a half or 11, you know, it's it's not that much of a difference, let's say. Um, but I feel like OCC kind of feels like clamped in between Monte Rosa, very technical, very steep, um, and then Seul 100, another 100k race, not so long after OCC. Um and yeah, I've I've run UTMB a few times or like a race at UTMB a couple of times. Um so it doesn't feel so um how to put it. Um I don't feel like I have to run there every year.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Yeah and you've had success there before.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

I mean you've had some some great races, so I wouldn't call it success necessarily, um but but it's it's it's part of the part of the journey, and I think I'm doing a very good job in prioritizing CCC 2027. Um so I don't feel I necessarily have to be at OCC and I will probably probably not be at my 100% for that race on that day, and then I get like I should ask myself, do I really need to be there? Because if you're not like 100% you know uh um prepared for for UTMB race now, then you might as well just stay home, you know. Um who are you kidding? Like the competition is so so so high. Like neither my sponsor nor myself will be happy with my results. Um if I'm just like at 95%, you know, it's it doesn't make sense. Um so we will need to see if if it's if it is CCC. And then like I said, it is um the Seoul 100 race in like the name suggests in Seoul, South Korea. Um and then Lavionyon, the ATK Um at the Grand Reid, um, which I am very, very, very excited about.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

Talk about the for German champs. Like, will you go you'll go back home, obviously, to Germany. Uh is the is the snow melted where you currently will be training and living out of, or is there is there still a bunch of snow there? Like, how will you adapt and and kind of get ready in prep prep preparation for this race?

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Yeah, it's a good question. I I don't know how this area specifically um looks like right now. I I can imagine, like we go out, I mean it doesn't sound high, um, but like two and a half thousand meters for us is is pretty high. And I think we will get too close to two and a half. Um so there will probably be some old snow still, um which is fine. Um the the the the trail will be beaten in, um, so that wouldn't be a problem. And unless you know what what could always happen in in April is that we have another inch and another foot of snow, you know, like theoretically um that has happened before, right? Um and then the course might look something completely different. Um we will we will never know. Um but yeah, like like I said earlier, um my strength is running technically steep, and I feel like I've done that like whenever I'm in the Alps or in any other like big mountain range, I do that all the time. Um and I cut my volume like in this measured in distance so much, the same time, but but obviously the distance goes down because on average you're moving slower. And whenever I'm at my hometown where I was raised in the in the center of Germany, um, same amount of time, but 30-40% distance more just because on average I'm moving faster. Um it has always helped me to be better, even on the technical steep stuff. I don't really lose my descending and ascending capabilities when I'm going into the flats, but in the flats I just get so much stronger and more durable when I do something like that. So um I will be at my hometown for until the German, just before German gems, and I will do pretty big volume weeks, I believe, um both measured in distance and time, more in distance and in time. Um because like I said, we cut all the junk miles, so I'm not really running more than 11, 12 hours per week usually. Um maybe 12, 13 every once in a while, but but definitely not like 20 or something like that. So I we we are not doing this anymore. Um and yeah, I believe that will be will will prepare me well for 80 kilometers deep.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Well, this uh this this is out of pure curiosity. Will this select four worlds for 2027 to go to South Africa? Like will this pick the team?

SPEAKER_00 56:18

No, no, no. Um they they completely decoupled the the national championship from the um selection races. Gotcha. Um and usually also uh team Germany selects could be anything from one month to like four months in advance, five months in advance. Um this year they so we have uh EuroCamps in June coming up. Um Slovenia 50 50k, 15 bit K. Um, not super steep. Like when you look at the numbers, very similar to Sonoma. So I was actually hoping I could use either Big Alta or Sonoma as a as a qualification race, but end of December last year they they announced, and I I'm in good contact with them, you know, like Germany is a small country, so they only have like let's say 25-30 athletes that they yeah, honestly, that they like have to monitor right now, I would say. Um so communication actually works pretty well between the athletes and and the the federation um usually. Um so I talked a little bit about them and I was like to be honest, I I told them that I think what they did this year or what they were planning for this year like wasn't amazing. So they they announced at the end of December that the the only the only qualification race will be on the very first weekend in March. Um and if you're not there in this race, you almost have no chances of making the team. Um crazy. So that so that gave us eight weeks to prepare. They they announced it eight weeks or nine weeks or something like that before the race. And like I said, I was I was running uh Cape Town in November and then like the year before, before that, 12 months before, so uh like 15, 16 months ago, I did Cape Town at the end of November, and then I went to Taurera in in January. So those are I I talked quickly about this um earlier. I basically had two years full of racing without a proper off-season. So when they announced it end of last year, 2025, I was just having my like three-week off season, and then was starting with like a a proper base block and like all the strength work, which like we discussed, it it helped me, but it's it's not race-specific, right? So I was not going to be ready in eight weeks of time to have a good enough race at the qualification race. Um, so basically, just by timing, it it was completely clear that I would I would not make the the German team for the EuroCamps um 2026. Um which is a little bit of a shame. I think I think the course would have suited me quite well. Um yeah, but this being said, the the the the qualification race for Cape Town 2027 World Champs um will be sometime in early summer um 2027.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

Gotcha. It's crazy they do it so I mean I guess we do it the same way. We have weird ways of doing things as well, where uh our selection will be a few months, three to usually three to four months before sometimes five. Yeah, well depends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

I mean that's the good thing, right? I mean, you you also want you also want because before that, I think for um world champ, I ran the world champs in Innsbruck um in 23, was it? Yeah, 20 yeah 23. Yep, yeah. Um so there I think it was like one and a half months before, and I thought, you know, uh that doesn't really give you a lot of time to like plan the rest of the season and really prioritize, and like you kind of have to had to like almost train specifically for the event without even knowing if you would be able to go. Um, so I appreciate that they now have like these three months ahead, or three and a half months even. Um but now we like ran into the trouble that when the the race is early in the year, like I said, it's June, then minus three months, then you're at the very beginning of of the European season already. Um so then accordingly, also you need to communicate what the nomin the qualification race is early enough so that everyone has the chance to you know to show their A game on that day. Um but but we're getting there. We are we are we are improving in my opinion, and I appreciate what the Federation does, and I really hope it works out for me in 2027.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

Yeah. No, me too, man. It's uh like we run into the same issue, well, a different issue where we'll pick like our our mountains are obviously stocked in with snow early season, right? So it's like we're we're I I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if we're actually picking the best teams, like are the best like for instance, because this year uh it was in Cahn Frank, are we I was like, are we really like we sent a great obviously a bunch of great teams, but were the best like people that would have raced that on that type of terrain selected versus like kind of our more carpet y, easier trails that are more available to us earlier in the year versus something that's gonna be more technical skill-wise.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Yeah. In in the I I'm 100% with you, but but in the Federation's defense, they have they don't have an easy job. Because the next thing we want is some like someone intransparently just assuming, you know, this and that and that person are the three best races for that terrain, for that distance, for that rain race time, race um time. Like we want we maybe it would even make sense, you know. Like I said, in Germany we have 20, 25 guys, you know, like who who could be monitored, but we we and it worked a little bit like that in the in the in the past, you know, where it was a little bit like okay, you and you and you go. Um why? Well, because I tell you that's because I say so, you know, like this this is my selection. It was a little bit like that. And and now they do have qualification races um planned. Um are they always at the right time? Are they always um in the race in the right climate? Are they always the same like technicality? Probably not, no, but but it it's it's an impossible an impossible solution that you're trying to find. Um yeah, but but yeah, I agree, it's it's yeah, um not always do these mechanisms then allow the federations to to pick the best runners, but in my opinion, it's it's much better than having like an intransparent kind of process that favors the favorites of the Federation because that's just not fair and this is not what the sport is about.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

100%. I couldn't agree more. It's uh it's an interesting thing. Plus, and I think uh to your point as well, we've gotten the sport is getting so professionalized that like people are good at everything now. Obviously, there's specialists and there still are some specialists out there, but the sport for the most part is getting so professionalized that uh the skill level has gone up so high to where you know people are very confident in what they're doing. Like there's not uh you know Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:17

That that's the other thing. Um what like if it was like a super flat, super fast course, then I wouldn't go, you know, even if I made the team according to the qualification guidelines that they put out. You know, imagine the qualification race, and in theory that could happen, you know, the qualification race is much more technical, much steeper than the actual um championship will be. Um then I might even go to the qualification race just because there will be good competition. Um, but then I would probably still say no to go to the international championship because I just have no business in a super fast, super flat course. Um I I'm professional enough in knowing what kind of race I am slightly more competitive, you know. I I will never win an international championship ever in my life again. Like I'm very realistic when it comes to that. But still I know that I can perform better at the technical steep stuff. So when it comes to this kind of level of competition, I just wouldn't go. I would I would say no, you know. So there's like these two um two levels of of filter almost. Like what's what does the Federation say? But then also what do the athletes say? And maybe having these two filters will actually also help, even when the qualification race might not necessarily be uh very similar to the actual international competition. Um but but this might actually still help to, in theory, at least, to have the right team then.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

I totally agree. No, I like it. It's interesting stuff, man. Well, listen, man, we're at about an hour. I don't want to take up too much of your time. I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. This was a great conversation. Dude, I'm excited to, you know, when you come back to the States, hit me up. We'll gotta get you out in Colorado one of these days.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

And uh I will I will do that. Maybe you shouldn't have said that. Um because I I didn't go to Colorado this time of the year or or this this trip because I thought maybe there was going to be too much snow. Um, but I'm definitely coming back to the States. And I would then definitely like to like to come out and play in Colorado.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

Yeah, yeah, we gotta show you around, man. I mean, obviously you said you've been to Boulder, but the springs is better. I'm just gonna put that on. This is Macy. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Great conversation, uh, amazing perspective, and uh yeah, wishing you the best in the rest of your season, and uh we'll be in touch.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Thanks a lot, mate. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

What'd you guys think? Oh man, I want to thank Marcel so much for coming on the show. Always great perspective there. Interesting cat, and uh can't wait to get him back out. I invited him to Colorado, so we'll see if we get that man out in Colorado one of these days. I know he said he's been to Boulder, but he's never been to the Springs. We gotta get him on the Incline. Um, yeah, just a big fan. Uh I always like when the Euros come over, kind of test themselves on some of our American tests, uh, like the Incline or Grandeur Peak or Green Mountain Boulder, um, you know, some of these local uh hard efforts uh that we have in some of our prestigious mountain towns in America. So uh good stuff there. Guys, the best way you could support Marcel, give him a follow on Instagram. You can find him at Macy underscore Pacey. It's gonna be linked in the show notes there. Interesting cat. Uh, he's gonna be doing a lot of uh fun stuff this upcoming season, so definitely give him a follow. And uh yeah, just super appreciative for his conversation on the pod. Um, guys, really appreciate the support of the podcast. If you have been enjoying this, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you consume your podcast. That's all we can continue to tell these great stories and get these episodes out to the world. Um, one very last thing, but super not least, this episode is supported by CDUS USA. Use code SteepStuff. Again, that's gonna be code SteepStuff for 20% off your cart at CDUS. Um, check out the Run Anatomic Comfort. That has been my sock of choice. Um, little bit lower uh sock than the full run anatomic. It's got some great arch support, and it's got some great support for uh the Achilles as well, as well as a good little strip to keep the sock from sliding within the shoe. So, one of my personal favorites there. Guys, lots of announcements coming in. Uh, you're gonna be getting some more sponsor announcements from the podcast over the next couple weeks to months, which is great. And uh yeah, we're gonna be use a whole we're gonna be rolling out a whole slew of really cool episodes. Um, super excited to do. I was gonna do something for Canyons, but I decided against it just because we got a really stacked May calendar starting off with Zagama and then ending with uh a whole slew of uh pre and post-race interviews and stuff for the US Mountain Running Championships at Sunnepe. Um, I'm gonna be putting out on Instagram this week kind of our rotation schedule for uh coverage. So you guys are gonna be able to see where we're gonna be out in person. You can come say hi and then uh also kind of get an idea of what we're gonna be covering race-wise, both in North America and Europe for this upcoming summer. So stay tuned on that. I know I'm gonna be tired after the summer between racing and coverage. It's gonna be uh it's gonna be a fun one. So thanks for tuning in, guys. Appreciate it.