#174 - Erin Ton

She’s calling in from the backcountry of Utah with a Starlink connection, fresh off slot canyons, desert miles, and yet another FKT. Erin Tun is back, and our catch-up quickly turns into a deep look at what it actually takes to move fast in the mountains when the air is thin and the consequences are real.

We dig into Erin’s four-month South America push anchored by altitude training in Quito, Ecuador, where repeat climbs and local trail running community support helped set the table for bigger goals. From Cotopaxi and other 5,000 meter peaks to the main objective, Aconcagua, Erin breaks down the real-world mechanics of a fastest known time attempt: scouting versus full summits, choosing lines, managing snow and scree, and why a perfect weather window can disappear overnight. She also describes what performance feels like above 21,000 to 22,000 feet, where “going hard” often means relentless efficiency and not stopping, not running a pretty pace.

From there, the lens widens to the Seven Summits record path, including why Kilimanjaro might be next and what makes an Everest speed record uniquely complicated: oxygen choices, north versus south side routes, political access, permits, and the funding reality behind big peaks. We also talk sponsorship in a way most podcasts skip, including Erin’s move to Tava, her hands-on role testing prototypes, and how building a sustainable career as a modern mountain athlete now includes storytelling, not just results. If you want the behind-the-scenes version of these adventures, Erin and Chris are launching a YouTube channel to show what Instagram can’t.

If you like this kind of mountain running, high altitude training, and adventure athlete problem-solving, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show.

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Transcript

Welcome And Desert Check In

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oreallo. And today I'm so excited to welcome Erin Tun back to the show. Erin is an adventure-based athlete, and it's been about a year since we've had her back on, maybe a little more than that. Like I said, super excited to catch up in the time since we've had her on the past. Erin has actually moved on to Tava as a sponsor. We talked a lot about that decision and what it's like being an athlete on the Tava team, the kind of the feedback that she gets, uh, and input that she gets to be able to put into the product line and uh just some of the fun stuff around that. We also talk big time uh about her latest adventure where she just got back from South America, absolutely smashing FKTs. Uh I'd say first and foremost, the biggest one, one of the seven summits, Akincagua, where Eren uh had set the fastest known time on. In addition to Koto Paxi, Ilanzi, and Chimparazo, excuse me if I butchered those names. Uh I am working on my my dialect and accents. Um that said, uh, in addition to numerous other FKTs that Eren had gotten when she was out there, those were kind of some of the lead-up FKTs in uh to get ready for Akincagwa, um, which is all part of a bigger scope for Eren, which is gonna be tackling and going after the Seven Summits record um over the next few years. And uh Akinkagua, because it's kind of the first one off the list. She did hint and said uh that potentially Kilimanjaro would be next, amongst many others. We did talk about Everest, which was a fun one as well. Um yeah, I'm such a big fan of Eren's, and uh, hope you guys are too. If you don't already follow her on Instagram, you can find that in in the show notes and definitely give her a follow. And uh her YouTube is gonna be dropping in addition as well. So hope you guys enjoy this episode. Without further ado, Aaron Tunn. This is the Steep Stuff podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

In the backcountry of Utah, just outside of Escalante, doing some slot canyoneering. So life is good.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Nice, yeah. Not much to complain about there. That's uh, I mean, it looks even the background looks pretty dope. Um, that's uh this is one of the better podcast settings uh that I've that I've had a guest on. So it's pretty pretty good there.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yeah, I guess I was just telling you, thank you, thank you, Starlink.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yeah, shout out to Starlink. Uh yeah, I gotta well, maybe this summer I'll probably do more. I might bring the Starlink to with like with me to Broken Arrow and a few other places. It'd be kind of sweet to do like live podcasts from places. Um, don't want to go too much off on a tangent. First off, how are you? How's how's this trip that you're on right now in Utah? What have you guys been getting up to? I know you I just saw this morning you posted about a new FKT that you had done. Talk about talk about this trip.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Sure. Yeah. So during uh shoulder seasons between like winter and trail running in the summer, um, it I guess it's kind of becoming a tradition now to head out to the desert and Utah and Arizona for some canyoneering and slot canyoneering. Um, it's become like one of my new favorite sports or activities. Some people don't refer to it as a sport, but um like speed canyoneering uh specifically is super fun too. It's um a lot more like dynamic and athletic movement patterns than just purely running.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

So cool.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

So yeah, the the backcountry of like Utah around like Hanksville and Escalante is just littered with slots everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

That's so cool. Any cool animals? Is there anything like rattlesnakes and stuff like that out there?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Or I haven't seen a rattlesnake yet. Tons of lizard, um, all types of lizards, uh collared lizards, um, lots of birds. There's a lot of bugs out here currently, which is which is pretty odd. But yeah.

Quito As An Altitude Training Base

SPEAKER_00 3:48

I would not guess that for the desert. Shout out for the bugs. Food for the animals. There you go. Uh all right, very cool. I'm glad you're having a good time, enjoying your time. There's so much to talk to talk about. I'd say the first thing I want to dive right into is uh prior to this trip, you had just gotten back from South America where you had set numerous records, including, I'd say probably the biggest one was probably what? Akincagua and then Koto Paxi as well and a few others. Um, I do want to dive deep into this trip, but I want to give the audience kind of a background set of information of uh you know what you would set out to do out there, the FKTs, how you set up those things, and uh went for them. So maybe maybe give a little breakdown of uh of of just the whole trip, if you will, and I'll ask questions off of that.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Sure. Yeah, so I spent four months in total down in South America, with the main objective being Aconcagua. So everything prior to that was kind of a buildup in training and acclamation for Aconcagua. Um, so Chris, my partner, and I, uh, we spent about six weeks living in Quito, Ecuador uh when we first got there, um, which is a great home base for training at altitude. It sits up at about 9,000 feet. And the backyard peak, Ruku Pinchicha, um, you can gain anywhere from five to six thousand feet to go from the city up to the summit. Um, so I think I climbed that like 13 times in total when I was there. Uh yeah, I got to know it real well. Um and then yeah, after our six weeks of living there, he went off on a big bikepacking project. And that's when I flew down to Argentina.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Wow. Okay. How did you like Quito? I mean, beautiful, beautiful city. I I love Ecuador, cool country.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Oh, I didn't know you've been before. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Background in uh yeah, I uh I don't want to go too deep into it, but yeah, yeah. It's uh it's uh growing up in South Florida, you get exposed to a lot of uh different South American cultures and things like that. And yeah, just uh big, big, beautiful place. Um yeah, talk about it. What did you think of the city? Obviously, it's a little bit different because it's a it's a mountain city. I've even heard like certain podcasts talking about how it's like one of the best trail running um cities that like as far as just like infrastructure for trail running, if you really want to like go into the weeds, uh it's a great place to train.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

It is, I would agree with that. Yeah, they have everything from like flat running at La Parque Carolina, which is like right in the middle of uh the city, um, to like the Metropolitan Park, which has more like cruzy roller trails, um, to like Ruku, as I mentioned, um for easy access to higher altitudes. Um, but yeah, like one of the great things about FKTs is it didn't take long for me to be there until I was like immersed to like the local trail running community. Um and yeah, I even had like a few of like the prominent trail runners there reach out to like support or crew me on like Codopaxi and other mountains there, which was awesome.

Aconcagua FKT Plans And Reality

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Interrupting this episode to talk to you guys about Ceta Socks, the official partner of the Steep Stuff Podcast. How much do you guys love your feet? I mean, I do. I love my feet. I really care about my feet, but I also care about your feet. But not in that way. Get your mind out of the gutter. Ceta Socks, keeping your feet stable, protected, and in control since 1975. Bringing you guys an anatomical fit and superior hybrid composition materials. Cedus incorporates odor control, ankle support, and anti-slip grip strips into some of my favorite models. Check out the Run Anatomic Comfort and the Run Anatomic, two of my favorites, online at Cedus.us. Cedus is the official foot care partner of UTMB in Western States. Cetus, your foot company. So cool. Um talk all right, let's let's get into Aconcagua and what the build-up was like for Aconcagua, like the training and just how long it took to get ready for this fountain, how you decided, uh what day you decided to go for it, and and and how like I guess sensations in the legs were feeling. How did how did that all build up go?

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Yeah, so with these high-altitude peaks, there's so many different variables involved from like when you're physically ready and acclimated to like searching for weather windows and everything just has to fit perfectly like a puzzle in order to make a record on one of these big peaks work. Um, but I knew I had wanted to go after the Aconcagua record for a couple years now, and I could like this was the year I could finally muster up enough funding and support to actually like get down there and pay for the permitting and everything. Um so yeah, I I from based on what I had read and like looking at the weather windows for previous records, I knew somewhere between like um late December to early January uh was when I wanted to go after it. Um and I kind of lucked out with the weather for my short record, um, and that it was like beautiful blue sky, sunny. Um, and then a couple of days later I went back for the long record and it just flipped like that. Um, it was like actively snowing and so windy, and I couldn't even feel my toes or fingers with like heated socks and everything. So I did have to flip for the longer record, which is about 40 miles round trip, and you gain like 14,000 feet of gain. Um, so that's I I will be going back.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Okay. Was that a little terrifying being at the top and having? I mean, obviously, like you're you've told some crazy stories to me about like some wild shit on the creststones and like lightning and stuff like that. Does that stuff like does it did it get does it get sketchy when you're much higher? Because I feel like you're moving a bit slower, there could be more consequence because you are slower up there. How how does that how do you reconcile that? And does that add a little more stress to the record?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

I would say it does. Yeah. Um, your decision-making paradigm is definitely slowed and um at those altitudes. Um, like there were people around me. Um, you know, there's like three camps on the way up to the summit of Alcancagua. So, you know, it's not like I didn't have anybody around me, but at the same time, I was doing these efforts like solo unsupported. Um, so that that did add a layer to it.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

That's so crazy. All right, let's let's talk about the short record. Maybe, maybe walk me through the terrain, what it's like. Like people uh just maybe paint for the audience what it's like, uh the distance-wise, and and uh just kind of taking a tackle at the short record.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Sure. Yeah, so the the short record it starts at um Plaza de Mula Space Camp, um, which is just at about 14,000 feet in elevation. And from there, uh it's a steep ascent all the way to the summit. Um it's pretty sustained grade. It's about nine, 10 miles round trip, uh depending on which like exact lines that you take. Um so for me, I stuck to the standard route, um, which like hugs the ridge of the mountain all the way to the summit. And then I took a shortcut down back to base camp. Um, and yeah, that that face that I cut, it was covered in snow while I was there. Um, normally if you get it in dry conditions, it's pretty bomber scree that you can just like bomb down in a couple minutes. Um, so again, there's more room to be shaved off if you have it like 100% perfect. For me, it was kind of like a layer of crusty snow on top and then really soft sugary snow underneath. So I was like punching through, and then I'd like float for some steps, and it's just like that game of Russian roulette right now where you don't know if you're gonna punch through and twist your ankle. Um, but then yeah, as soon as you get below like camp one, it's pretty dry and it's just really fun screet all the way back down to base camp.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Oh wow, that's so cool. Uh and talk to me about like how you dialed in your lines. Like I know Tyler um obviously, you know, he's south lives in South America. He's a you know, he trains on this stuff all the time, has records on the stuff. Uh, did you like get beta from him? Did you get beta from others? Obviously, you probably you want to go see it yourself, I would imagine, before dialing in kind of the route.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, Tyler, he was super helpful throughout this whole process. And I reached out to him for a lot of advice about like um the lines I should take and also how I should like approach um the buildup for record day. Um, because initially I thought that I would go to the summit once in its entirety before actually trying to run it hard, and he uh advised against that just because like going up to almost 23,000 feet, like it takes a big toll on your body and like you'd just be exhausted for a while after that. Um, so instead I did a few scouting missions just up to like Camp Two and a little bit above Camp Two. But yeah, the record day, that was my first time up to the summit.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Oh wow. What and I mean I can ask you about uh after this, I'll I'll get to the actual part about uh like the summit day and going for it. But I'm just so curious, it's like what the body, I've never been to 20,000 feet. I've really never been above, I don't think I've been well. Albert is the highest I've ever been. What what does the body feel like? I mean, obviously you have to acclimate and start getting used to stuff like that. How do you feel going trying to go hard at least at an altitude like that?

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Yeah, yeah, no, I had been close in elevation before on Ojost El Salado a few years back, um, which is the second highest peak in South America and only like a couple hundred feet shorter than Aconcagua. And I felt surprisingly good on that one. Um, so I thought that was a good indicator for Aconcagua. But even then, like on record day, like I felt like I wasn't really running much as soon as I got up, you know, above 21, 22,000 feet. It's more so just like speed walking, and like the key is just to not stop at all and just be as efficient as possible. Um, because like most people up there, all the other climbers I saw, you know, take a few steps, stop, catch your breath, take a few more steps. So for me, I just like kept walking and didn't stop at all.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

That's so crazy, dude. And you expect like, did you so the reason I asked this question is because like I don't know, for for instance, like for someone running up a 14er or trying to run up a 14er, like obviously it's mixed, mixed running with with power hiking, stuff like that, because you know, most people they're doing aren't aren't accustomed to the altitude, like from an athlete perspective. It did is it frustrating at all? Like for someone like you who wants to run, wants to get after it, like is it frustrating trying to gauge, or are you like constantly looking at your watch, trying to gauge that effort, knowing that you're on record pace? Or like are you just going off feel when you're when you're kind of going after something like this?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

I think it I was definitely frustrated in the moment, knowing like the paces that I'm currently running at. Yeah. Um, but at the same time, I also like had a vague idea of like the previous splits, and I knew that it was like well ahead of record pace for both like the ascent and the round trip. Um, but still it's like pretty frustrating when you go from like running fast to like just like walking and not stopping. That's considered like good at those altitudes.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

That's so crazy. Oh my gosh. How did you um like in in the lead up to it? I mean, no, I I know you adjust very well to altitude, no headaches or anything like that. Like you just like what do what do you do as far as protocol? Do you just keep yourself super hydrated, like and eat a lot? Like, how how do you get the body kind of prepped for something like this?

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Um, yeah, no headaches during this trip. I think the more gradual you approach it, the better you're gonna feel. Like, I've also done like the opposite, where I go from like basically sea level up to like 6,000 meters in like a week in like the Atacama. And that hurts pretty bad, I'm not gonna lie, but like it is doable. Yeah, so I think it's a it's a gradual process. And prior to leaving Ecuador, I had climbed Cotopaxi um a couple times, as well as another like 5,000 meter peak, Illaniza Norte. Um, so those were definitely very beneficial before climbing Aconcagua.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

So cool. How do you feel about this? Like, this is this is like, I mean, you've done some amazing things in your career, but I feel like Aconcagua is like that's big time. This is a big deal. Like, obviously, like you've you've set some amazing records, but you continue to redefine what it means for I feel like women in the space and just overall the FKT scene. So, how did this one feel for you?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Well, thank you. Um, yeah, I'll I was a little surprised by the reaction afterwards, to be honest. Um, which I understand, like it's one of the seven summits. Um, so it there's a lot of hype surrounding this peak. But for me, it almost felt just like you know, like another FKT and record, and like other people look at the time and they're like, that's you know, great. But for me, I'm just thinking all the minutes that I could still shave off like in the future in more like ideal conditions. So at some point in time, like I do think I will go back again for both the short record and the long record.

Seven Summits Goals And Everest Questions

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Oh wow. Okay, very cool. I gotta ask the seven summits because I feel like this is something that uh I I I feel like you've mentioned it on Instagram. I don't know. I I Chris definitely said it when he was on the pod the other day, and I feel like you might have mentioned it on Instagram. We gotta talk about this. This is a big deal. Are you uh like fully committed to going after all the seven summit records this year? Or over the course of however long? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Yeah, after Aconcagua, that's the trajectory I'm leaning towards. Um, I was treating Aconcagua as kind of a way to dip my toes in the water and just see if I liked that whole space. Um but yeah, I'm that is the path that I like to take. And I feel like even since I've last talked to you, like I've definitely realized my strength as like a trail runner and mountain athlete is in the high altitude spaces. Like the higher, the better for me. Um, so hopefully by the end of this year I'll also have the Killy record if all goes.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

All right, I do you're gonna rip Killy. Killy does not Killy's not even ready for you. This is crazy. I feel like Aqua Kwagwa is way harder than Kelly. Plus, like, what is it, Casyasco? The Everest one is a question mark because that's exp that's like crazy expensive to go out there and do it. Like I'm sure that's like a super serious undertaking. Um, how how does this work? Are you starting to like maybe put together the plans to start uh I guess like way out to start putting together uh just like all of the logistics and stuff for something like this?

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Yeah, I yeah, it's an even arguably an even bigger like logistical feat than it is like an athletic feat almost. Um and yeah, like I think I would be shooting for Everest like 2028 um in the spring. Um, but I I just recently signed with uh an athlete agent as well. So they're hopefully gonna help me with more of like the back end stuff of like raising enough support to afford the all the travel and the permitting involved with these peaks.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Sweet. Oh, I'd love to hear that. Um all right. When do you think of Everest? What do you what do you think of? Like does that one because I I don't know. Like that seems scary to me. I don't know. Like what do you think about as far as like that that one particularly?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Um, you know, for the longest time I was kind of indifferent as to whether or not I wanted to climb it, let alone go for a record, just because of all the stuff that you hear in the media. But now after having like been to Ever Space Camp a couple of times and kind of like witnessed firsthand um all of Tyler's efforts um with going for the Everest record, um, I do think it is something that I would like to do and am capable of. And yeah, like mostly just because of like you look at the the margins between like the men's and the women's times on these really big peaks right now, and it's like almost double. And I'm like, this doesn't make sense. Like it shouldn't be that way. And so hopefully, like if we start to, you know, get the ball rolling and gain that momentum, there'll be more women like actually trying to push hard on these extremely high altitude peaks.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

So crazy. Do you know? Like, I I honestly did not look before this. Uh uh, I did look for the overall like women's seven summit record, and I couldn't find it. I've seen people like the youngest person to have done it in like X amount of years or something like that, but I couldn't find the actual uh the record itself. So like you're this is like potentially like you know, chasing like a really big cool thing. Um, what is do you know what the Everest woman's record is? I I don't I couldn't find it or I didn't really I don't know off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

It really depends on whether you're climbing with or without oxygen. Um, I would like to do it without oxygen. Um it also depends on like if you're approaching from the the south side um and going through the Kumbu icefall or the north, the the Tibet side, which is what Tyler was trying to do this year. And it's a lot less dangerous of a route, but um it gets really finicky with whether or not China is gonna let you in or not. And China they shut down foreign climbers this year. So yeah, he's he's back to the the south side.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Oh, that's crazy. I mean I've I've literally had just heard about this on like National Geographic, but as far as like uh the uh China shutting down their side, did they will they do they ever offer it open like open it for foreign climbers? Or is it usually like a no-go from from what I understand?

SPEAKER_01 22:13

They do, yeah. No, there's a lot of um like even like foreign expedition companies. I'm thinking like Adrian Ballinger, for example, and he like exclusively climbs from the the Tibet side, um, just like to minimize that objective hazard of the ice fall. Um, so I think yeah, this is like gonna be one of his first years in a while where he doesn't have permission to climb from the north side.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Damn, China, China, killing us China. Um that's exciting. I mean, Kilimanjaro is really exciting too. All of them. It seems like such a this is a really cool adventure and undertaking um that I feel like is it's like a multi-year like thing. Um what do you think about when you think about something like that? Like this is gonna take up a lot of time. Like, do will your training surround this? Will other FKTs like be in preparation for something like this? Um, how do you like visualize this, visualize this like mentally?

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah, um, I do think it it will change my training um in some respects, and that I'll be doing a lot more um like high altitude training blocks prior to these peaks. But as far as like the adventuring in between, you know, I'm out here like in in in Utah and like relatively low altitude, like I still hope to keep like that fun adventure element involved. Um, because I think like for me that's what prevents like mental burnout and like keeping it sustainable.

Back Home Fitness And Incline Suffering

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, it's crazy. When you got back, were you just like I mean, obviously that altitude adjustment, like because Colorado's low compared to where you were, uh relatively speaking. Were you thinking about going for any other records? Like, I mean, obviously there's not much well, we he we did have a mild winter, but um anything that like stuck out to you because you had all this fitness and this altitude adaptation, you could have gone and smashed anything.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Yeah, no, I you do feel like a superhero when you come back to lower altitudes, it is noticeable. Um, I would still like to get back down near you to the Manitou Incline, and um I'd like to do 24 hours on it um sometime soon. I've just been I've mostly been waiting for like a period when it's cooler out because it's just been so dang hot in Colorado recently.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Dude, I was out there today. I wasn't on the incline, I was close to it though, and yeah, it was like 72 degrees at like 10 a.m. I was like, oh my god, this is rough for April. Uh dude, the 24-hour incline record would be sick. That's a good one. That's a great place to suffer. Like that's uh such a fun, fun place. And I feel like I don't know, it's always cool to do laps with people, and you know, it's uh almost like a great just easy to get into a rhythm uh and just a great place to suffer. So that'd be a good one.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Yeah, yeah, because the last time I was out there, I did uh 13 laps and 11 hours. So I mean, even if I were to do like an hour per lap, that's that's a lot of art. And I don't know what like the women's record on foot for vertical elevation gain in a day is. I've been I've like dug deep into the internet and I can't find anything.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Yeah, it's so yeah. You could definitely, I mean, if there's uh if there's any place to do it, that's the place to spash it. I mean it the only way it could possibly be better is if we put in a uh like a little gondola so you can just go up and then just take the gondola down and not wreck your legs and go up.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Yeah, no, I I do think like part of it, like if you weren't uh we're gonna go for the the record, like you have to descend as well. To me, that's just like the purest way to do it. But if they just put like a like a strip of sand, a sand hill right down it, then you wouldn't destroy your quads.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

I you know I never asked you this because I'm always like timid on the ink like running hard down the incline because I'm always worried about my knees. Because I've had like five PTs say to me, like, don't run down it hard if you like your knees. When you did 13 laps, were you like completely destroyed after from going downhill on that thing?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

I was. Yeah, I think it was fine for the 11 hours, but after that, like the next three days, I couldn't sit down in a chair without it hurting.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

It's just it's stairs are a totally different type of running.

Why Tava Sponsorship Works Better

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Different beasts, yeah. Yeah, the incline's a is a whole whole different animal. Uh I want to shift gears a little bit. Last time, uh, I mean, obviously it's been a while since you've been on the show. You've changed teams since and you've been working with Tava. Uh, I gotta ask you about this. Super cool. They've got these really cool shoes and sandals, and uh, it seems like um, I don't know, this is a it seems like a great fit. Talk talk about this. Like, how uh how has it been as far as working with them and the support and all the good stuff?

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Oh, it's been incredible. Um yeah, I was a little skeptical, uh to be honest, when they first reached out to me because I I only knew of them as being like the sandal brand, right? So he wanted me to like run all these technical trails and mountains and sandals. Um, but my you know athlete manager, he told me they had some really exciting shoes and product in in the works. And I think that was one of the factors that pushed me over, is that um I've been able to have like a really integrated role with like their product development teams. Um, so they're sending me prototypes all the time, and then you know, I take them out into the field and beat them up and uh tell them what works, what doesn't work. And yeah, I feel like I've had the opportunity to design like shoes that are tailored to the types of activities I want to be doing in the desert and mountains. Um, and they're really receptive to my feedback, so I feel very like valued as an athlete in ways that I didn't necessarily feel before with other sponsors.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Oh, dude, I love to hear that. I mean, and they made two great signings. I mean, getting yourself and Wardian, I feel like that, you know, Wardian's obviously, you know, comes from a different era of the sport. He he's you know involved in different ways and does a ton of stuff. And then you with this, you know, on this adventure side and all the FKTs, I don't know. I feel like they get they picked some really cool athletes. Like I think it was a it was a great choice in what they're trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Absolutely. Yeah, and I love what they stand for too. It's like my role with them is more of like a professional adventurer versus just like you have to go out and like race and perform and podium. They're like, okay, like what inspires you as an athlete, and we're here to support you. Um, but yeah, Mike's been a great member on the team as well. And I think he signed a little bit before me with them. And um, yeah, he's been a great mentor to to learn from.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

So cool. How how did this relationship come about? Did they they reached out to you and they're like, we we really want to have you? Like, I think that's that's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

They did, yeah. They they had heard about me and like all my endeavors and the heels as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

And oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah. It's exciting to hear like as far as the recruiting goes. Like, I you know, it's so many times I come across brands that like uh don't know who is who. And and it it it's like kind of head scratching sometimes where I'm like, do you do you not follow, do you not understand the space? Like stuff like that. So it's great that like they knew like you were this amazing athlete in the space doing redefining things, and they knew who to recruit. So that was that was smart. So kudos to them on the side.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yeah, no, I'm super appreciative, and it's definitely like made this lifestyle a lot more viable, too. Like before I had to work like part-time at a running store um in in Denver, and now I'm able to be out here like full-time, you know, pretty much like the doors are open to any any adventure that I want to do.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

How does that help like as far as like lifestyle goes? Like, do you uh you can go do whatever whatever you want to, whenever, like, and you don't have to worry about being in an office or doing this, that, and the other. Like that freeing or that ability to be free and kind of do the stuff you want. It's gotta be yeah, like how how do you describe that? It's gotta be really cool. I'm a little jealous.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Um, yeah, no, I I definitely pinch myself at times, like this is my life now, and like this is my job. Like, I always knew that I wanted to travel when I was older, but I never quite knew like the the mechanism through which I would like be able to do that. It's like, you know, growing up you think of like travel as like that's your vacation from your work, but like now, like it's like my life is almost a vacation. Granted, like I do like a lot of hard things, and that's not always easy at times, but um, I think it it takes a lot of discipline too, because you are kind of like your own boss creating your own schedule.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Um the last time uh we had talked, I mean it's been a few years now. I mean, at one point in time I know law school potentially was down the line for you. There was something interesting in it, but I feel like you've opened doors to this whole new career and life that you're living. Do you still think about when to go to law school? Or is this this I mean, this new path that you're on seems, in my opinion, just like way better, you know?

SPEAKER_01 31:14

But yeah, no, I I totally agree. And yeah, I think my answer is still the same in that law school doesn't sound fun anytime in the near future. And yeah, like now seeing that you can make a a career within the world of running, um, and like connecting with these different brands, whether that's like an athlete position or like product development roles, like yeah, I think yeah, seeing that it's a viable path um is definitely making me lean towards that more than anything else.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah, yeah, and it's really cool. I mean, I think that you you nailed this you hit it spot on. And this is a continuation of the same conversation I had with Chris recently, that like there never used to be a path, and it now it seems like one has definitely you know opened for especially, I don't know. I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but like it's nice too that like you don't have to, you're not compelled to have to go do X amount of races, right? You don't have to live and die by this, you know, ridiculously regimented training schedule. You can kind of do more of the things you want, more adventure-based. Obviously, you're you're going after uh you know major goals, but it's just a little bit different than like your Jim Wamsleys of the world and stuff like that. It's where it's like super regimented, and you know, you have to have these deliverables and that. So I don't know. I I think it creates like just a I don't know, just like a better lifestyle for an adventure athlete, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

For sure. Yeah, like no, I've I still follow like the race scene and the race circuits, and I'm like totally impressed by the times like people are putting up now. But um, for me, like I've always personally just been more inspired by like these huge epic adventures and people who are doing like wild shit in like crazy places. Um, and so I think like I used to view running as more of like a selfish sport, you know, something I would like do for myself and just try and like you know beat my times, but like over the past couple years I've been able to connect with like a lot of community members and see that it's so much bigger than just like the individual.

Racing Detours And Future Objectives

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yeah, no, I love that. I on I gotta ask you this um about about the racing. I was very surprised that you hopped into a sky race. I talk about this. I mean, like, do you do do you still have that itch that you want to scratch every now and then for to to race and kind of throw down at some of these races?

SPEAKER_01 33:31

I think for the right races, yes. And man, just like reflecting back, that was like such a hectic um travel period because I had um come off of Aconcagua in Argentina, and then I flew back to Ecuador briefly, and that's when like the Sky Running series like reached out to me and they're like, Hey, we're having you know a race in Veroche, Argentina, since you just did this huge um down record here. We'd love to like have you come out. And I had been to Veriloche once before, and it's so beautiful. And I was like, I mean, I can't say no to a free trip to Veroche, but I think it was just way too quick of a turnaround um after Aconcagua and like travel, it takes a toll on your body. And I am not good at running in the heat, and that day, man, it was just way too hot. Um, they they also invited me to a race um shortly after that in uh Santiago Chile that goes up to like 18,000 feet in hindsight. I should have chose that one instead of the bearoche one, but no, it was still it was I I did have to drop the bear at during the Bariloche race, but it was fun, you know, like racing hard for a few hours while I while I was in it.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Dude, I'm so I mean I'm impressed that you did it. Like after this like massive undertaking of Aconcagua, like I don't know, I would have been like, all right, season's over for a little bit. But it's always hard to say no to like opportunities when they present themselves. Like, I think that's like the the crux. It's like, oh, this would be really cool to do. Like, how could I, you know, how do you how do you not do it? Um, any I because I don't know, I feel like that suits your style so well. Is some of these sky running races? Is there a chance we see you up more maybe in the in the future down the line at different years or something?

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Potentially, I would definitely gravitate more towards like the higher altitude ones and ones that aren't in extreme heat. Um and yeah, I would just need to give myself like more recovery time in advance. Um, and yeah, I was also like looking at like Ecuador or Chris's Ecuador bike project while I was out there, and I was like, man, I just want to be climbing the high peaks right now. So I think I was kind of like mentally removed when I was there.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Fair enough. Fair enough. Now I I don't blame you at all. Um talk to me about Barelosh. It's like a place I've it's very high on my list. One of these years I plan to go out there. I've always wanted to get down to like that area of South America. I've heard it's like paradise.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

It is. Yeah, the closest um place I would uh compare it to in the States is like Lake Tahoe. Um in that you just have a huge lake in the middle with like tall mountains surrounding it. Um but yeah, it's on the the northern part of Patagonia. It's still considered like Patagonia, but the the weather um there and the temperature there is much warmer and less variable than if you go like far down far south to like Ushuaia or Puerto Williams. Um so yeah, it's it's a great lifestyle. You can like go for a trail run in the morning and then go swimming or paddleboarding in the afternoons. Great town and food and people.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Is it expensive? I'm I'm just I'm thinking about my retirement plan.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

So that's what it is now. Um I think if you had asked people like five, ten years ago, that was when they still had like the the blue dollar rate in Argentina. So you could go down there with the American dollar and it was like pennies. But like with the change in like their political regime and everything, it's it's balanced out more. So it is pretty expensive. Keto's very cheap though.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Yeah, yeah. I keto's a great place. Place, yeah. I'm still yeah, I'm just trying to uh yeah, figuring out retirement plans over here. We'll see. Um, where can we see you at next? What do you uh obviously you're in Utah for a bit. When you get back, is it more shifting focus for any particular goal over the beginning of the summer, or is it just taking it easy? What's kind of uh next on the horizon?

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yeah, so potentially the the biggest thing that would be coming up is Nolans again. Um and yeah, I I I'm still I need to like mentally be a hundred percent in it if I'm gonna go that avenue again this summer. And also with it being such a dry summer in in Colorado, um, that could shift the timeline. So I like you know previously it was like July, August, and now I feel like no one's could be like May, June. Um then it's yeah, you have the snow sticking to the north aspects, it could make it really fast if you're able to get some glissading in there. Um so if that is what I decide to do, it's gonna be building up the the vert. Yeah, beating up the lakes a lot.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

How long would it take you to get ready for something like that? Like now, I've especially like would you have to just do I don't know like a six or eight week block, maybe less than that? Like how how how would you know uh or how do you know when you're ready to go for something like that? Because you've been on the route so many times. I mean, you have you know good knowledge of this.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah, I think for me, like the the climbing and climbing at a pace fast enough to get the record is not the issue. It's more so just like being able to sustain that for 90 plus miles. So I once I you know do a few big days in the mountains, and that's part of the reason why um doing 24 hours on the incline also sounds appealing to me. That's that's a good way to beat up the legs. Um, then I'll feel ready.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Gotcha. You have an interesting relationship with Nolans. Like, I I think you know, you've taken what two a few cracks at it now. Well, you know, it's gotta be like uh as far as like I wouldn't say frustrated, but like your ability, it's a very easy like I don't think it's a difficult thing for you to get. Like I feel like you will be able to get this just at, you know, if you keep trying at it. What is your relationship with with like that with that range and that line?

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Yeah, no, it's it's kind of similar to like what I was mentioning earlier with like it being a puzzle and everything has to like come together. And especially like me, like I think on any of my previous attempts, I could have probably like you know, pushed through and like just tried to finish it, but that's not really what I'm looking for from Nolan's. Like I know what time I'm capable of getting on that route, and like I don't want to settle for anything less. Um so yeah, it is frustrating. Like it's the first like major FKT that I haven't been able to get, first crack, which is also part of why I love it so much, and like it keeps me coming back.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

And yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. It's always the one it's like uh, I don't know, it's like reminds me of like Jordan and the Pistons back in the day trying to uh trying to overcome and get the championship. I don't know. It's like it's a very it's a very cool thing. It like eludes you and then you go and overcome this big thing and then you get it. Um so it's a very cool hero's journey for you in in that sense. Um yeah, I don't know. It's gotta be super exciting because that's a it's a very difficult thing, and it's a very rare error to be able to do that and do something like that so fast, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yeah, yeah. And this like most recent summer, I like had the idea that I was gonna do it self-supported and that was actually gonna like save time at like eight stations, and I don't think that was the right track to go down, and I learned some lessons out there. So yeah, it's just like an evolving learning process.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yeah, so cool. Um, any do you think you'll ever go back and try to do the color color was it the Colorado Trail? I think you've taken cracks up or taken a crack up, or would you go and try and do that again?

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Maybe, not like within the next year. Um, so like after this summer, like potentially Nolan's, Kilimanjaro would be like late summer, early fall. Um, Chris and I are planning on heading back out to Nepal for the fall season um to tackle the Great Himalayan Trail, which is um anywhere from like 900 to a thousand miles, and it traverses the entire like Himalayan range in Nepal. So that would be like a 30 to 40 plus day endeavor. Um, yeah, it's a lot of climbing. You cross a number of like 5,000 meter passes, which are pretty technical, and yeah, like like even like from a cultural element, that just sounds way more exciting to me. Staying like little tea houses and random places, and yeah, I've come to really love it in Nepal.

YouTube Storytelling And Closing Notes

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yeah, forget the Colorado Trail, dude. I'd go do that any day. Uh Chris kind of uh I guess he I wouldn't say hinted. He he was he told he said it on the pod. So I feel like we're I'm okay with asking this about your YouTube channel that you guys are gonna be putting out. Um, this is a big deal. I feel like being able to bring what you guys do to an audience would just catch fire. I feel like people would would eat that up. Um, is there any more updates on this? I know he said Sante was working on some stuff. Um so I feel like when that does go live, uh it's gonna be a really big deal and uh you know, like changing for you guys uh once that thing catches fire.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Yeah, no, it's very exciting. We were actually supposed to get like our first video up yesterday, but we had a long day in the canyon. So like within the next like day or two, it it'll our first video will be live. And then shortly thereafter, we're gonna have a video about my code apaxi record. And yeah, we've got a lot of stuff in the docket. We've been trying to like film some episodes in advance that way we have them lined up. Um, because like for us, it's just the editing that's so time intensive. Um, but yeah, I think it's gonna be a great um way to share like our adventures beyond just what you see on like, you know, Instagram and Strava, which are so like momentary. Um, because like one of the first questions people always ask us when they hear that we're like living in the vans and going on all these crazy adventures is like, Do you have a YouTube? And we're like, No, not yet. But I'm excited to show more of the behind the scenes, and you know, it's not always as simple as, oh, like she just ran up this mountain and got the FKT on the first attempt. Like, there's a there's way more that goes into it than just that.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Oh, I love this. I'm so excited because you know, like I said before, it's like there's not a lot of um, especially in the FKT space. A lot of really, really good storytelling around some of these efforts and those things, plus like lifestyle stuff. Like, I'm sure people want to know, like, like you said, like you know, what goes into some of these efforts, what goes into everyday training? What are you guys doing? You know, and I think that there's there's an audience for that. Plus, I also think, and this is not against anything against sponsors, sponsors are amazing. It helps, you know, it helps with everything, these partnerships. But one of the things I feel like trailrunners haven't really cracked yet, some of them have, but like once they do, it's the you know, being able to create a another income stream for yourself. So you're not so reliant on you know sponsors and stuff like that. And it's also a long-term income stream. So once those days are over, and if you don't want to do that anymore, you still have this, you know, amazing thing that you can, you know, you continue to grow and uh and work on, and uh, you know, it's a job in itself. So I think that's a great thing, like long term. It's a it's a it's like an insurance policy in a lot of ways, which is I think is sweet.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

For sure. Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting like topic, like though the role of like athlete versus like influencer with social media nowadays. And um, yeah, it's like in theory the job of an athlete should be to just go out and train and recover and perform, but um, you also like you know have to connect with your audience nowadays and and tell a story, but hopefully this gives us something, you know, apart from just like Instagram that we can grow for many years to come.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

Where do you stand on that? I I I don't I might have asked you this the last time and I just don't remember. I've always been I've always been big poo-poo on influencers, but the more I kind of grow in the podcast space and learn more, I feel like that storytelling as an athlete, as long as you're true to yourself, I feel like just helps grow your audience so much more. And it's not like you're trying to, it's you're not trying to be someone you're not. You're very much you, but you're just telling your story. So I feel like there's there's a lot there, and I find it quite interesting. I think there's an audience for stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Yeah, no, I've always been very firm on like I put out content that like connects with me, and I don't really care what anybody else thinks. Like if it's speaking my mind on like you know, political issues, like um like I view social media as something like a way for me to look back on my own adventures and like reflect on those and have those memories. And I feel like as long as I'm authentic and genuine to myself, like others will enjoy that as well, um, which seems to be working like so far. Um yeah, I I understand like you know, there's some athletes who just like don't get that much joy out of it or like maybe don't embrace the creative element as much. And um, yeah, I think I think that would be much harder if you didn't have that natural like inclination, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. It's interesting. I don't know. It's always like it's this like weird tightrope, and especially I feel like brands do do, I don't know, and not to not to blame brands, I uh that's not where I'm going with this, but I almost feel like the way brands have done things with um like certain allocations toward athletes and then a much larger allocation towards uh influencers, if you will, from some brand. I don't know, I'm just gonna throw a hoke under the bus for this. And uh, but like when you start to look at that, I think that creates like a natural divide between the two, you know, and I think it it's interesting. I don't know. Going off on a tangent here. Um, Aaron, because of time constraints, um, I think we should do part two when you do uh maybe maybe after or before or sometime around when you go for the 24-hour incline record. I feel like there's there's a lot of good content and conversation to have around that. Um, so yeah, I really appreciate you coming on. I appreciate your time and uh always love these conversations. Wishing you the best of luck. If you I unfortunately I'm gonna be around in June and July doing some training. So if you do go for null ins, I would love to just pop on over to support you. Um and yeah, we'll we'll definitely be in touch.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Um, we'll have to decrease the amount of time between our our first podcast and the third one now. I think I've I've it's been cool to watch how much you've grown. I think I was like one of the first guests on your podcast initially. So it's been awesome just to see you skyrocket.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Dude, you too, man. Oh my god. Like you're you're yeah, you're you're off doing all these crazy things, setting giant world records. This is nuts. It's uh it's been fun to follow for both of us. So I do appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Thanks, James. Um, I'll send you the link to our uh YouTube as well once that's yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Oh, I can't wait to watch. I'm so excited. Uh thank you so much for coming on. Um, this will we'll be in touch. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Thanks, James.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

What'd you guys think? Oh man, first and foremost, as a gift to our listeners, uh Cetus, our our primary partner for the podcast, is gonna be giving you guys a discount code. Use code Steepstuff. That's one word Steepstuff at checkout for 20% off your order. Check them out, get get your orthotics, uh, check out your uh your socks, guys. The Run in Atomic Comfort has been my jam. Great Achilles support, good uh no slip strip on there as well, so the shoes don't slide around, or so the feet don't well, feet slash shoes don't slide around. Uh it all kind of works together. Um check them out at CDS.us guys, uh thanks so much to Aaron for coming on the show. Um, really appreciate it. Holy crap, like seven summits, like Everest and Kilmanjaro, Akankagua. This is big stuff. Uh so super excited for Erin's future and where she's gonna take this thing. Um, like I said, I've always said this, like I think she redefines what it means for women in the space, uh, just continuously smashing these FKTs and making uh these records meaningful, uh, putting a face to them and and uh yeah, really cool stuff. Um I think, I believe their YouTube is gonna be dropping this week. So if it does, I'll be linking it in the show notes and sharing it so you guys can find it. Uh there should be some good stuff there between Aaron and Chris Fisher. Um yeah, if you've been enjoying this podcast, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you consume your podcast. Hit that subscribe button on YouTube. And uh, yeah, all good stuff. More stuff coming down the pipeline. And uh thanks for tuning in.