The Steep Stuff Podcast
Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things Short Trail
The Steep Stuff Podcast
#176 - David Norris
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
David Norris is stacking proof-of-fitness in the most honest way possible: show up early, race hard, learn fast. We sit down to catch up right as he rolls out big spring results including a win at Big Alta 50K and a podium at Gorge Waterfalls 50K, all pointing toward a new challenge at Snowdonia 100K. If you’re curious about ultra running progression, trail running strategy, and how a mountain specialist stretches into longer distances without losing speed, this conversation goes deep on the decisions behind the calendar.
We get specific on pacing and execution. David explains why he skipped formal heat training yet still thrived at Big Alta, how he prioritized hydration (and what that did for his fueling), and when he finally committed to making a race-winning move. Then we contrast it with Gorge Waterfalls, where he races head-to-head from the gun on technical singletrack, underfuels, and detonates late. The value is in the honesty: you can hear exactly how effort, terrain, and nutrition interact when the course keeps changing under your feet.
From there we zoom out to the full mountain running picture: training in Steamboat Springs, cross-training with Nordic skiing and mountain biking, strength work realities, and the day-to-day logistics of doubles while holding down an office job. We also dig into UTMB OCC takeaways, worlds course quirks, and Mount Marathon, the Alaska classic where David is a six-time champion chasing history and maybe a sub-40 someday. If you like mountain running, trail racing, the Golden Trail Series, and smart training you can actually replicate, hit play and take notes.
If this one helps, subscribe, share it with a training partner, and leave a review so more runners can find the show. What part of your own training would you change after hearing David’s approach?
Follow David on IG - @grandmasternorris
Use code SteepStuff for 20% your cart on Sidas.us
Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello
Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod
Follow Sidas USA on IG - @sidas_usa
Welcome And Season Snapshot
SPEAKER_03Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James Loriello, and today I'm so excited to welcome David Norris back to the show, the reigning 2025 U.S. Mountain Running Champion. Came on the show mostly to catch up, talked a lot about the last two races that he threw down at. He took the dub at the Big Alta 50K just a few months back, as well as a podium spot at the Gorge Waterfalls 50K as well, all in preparation for a big 100K race that he has coming up in just a few weeks' time. We got into a lot of fun conversation. We talked a lot about David's training, how he balances life. We did a good little recap going all the way back to his top 10 performance at OCC this past year. We also talked a good amount about worlds and then got into one of my favorite races, uh Mount Marathon, where David is a six-time champion. We talked a lot about the possibility of running under 40 minutes on that course and what that would mean to him. We also talked about just what that race meant to the community and him as a whole. So I hope you guys enjoy this one. Big fan of David's, and I just can't wait to see what he's going to do uh throughout the rest of 2026. So without further ado, David Norris.
SPEAKER_00Hey now. This is the Steep Stuff Podcast.
SPEAKER_03All right, David Norris. Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man? Great. Thanks for having me on again. Yeah, it's good to see you. It's been it's been a little bit, man. A lot's changed since the last time I saw you. You're off uh obviously you had a great world, you got top ten at OCC, and then now you're uh we're already in the 2026 season, you're already winning races. So it's uh we got a lot to chat about, man. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, how have you been? How's uh how's life these days? How's training? How's uh kind of I mean you're rolling off at 250K's? How's the body feel?
SPEAKER_01Uh surprisingly good. Um yeah, to be honest, like I always thought you probably shouldn't do a running race until June. Like that was my belief as a skier. Now I'm 100k into racing and it's still April. So yeah. Yeah, no, for sure.
SPEAKER_03I was I mean I was peeping your Strava. I saw your up, or I mean, I know we've had like an unseasonably warm Colorado uh winter, but I already see you're you're already mountain biking, you're already getting decently long runs in. Uh how how has it been for you up in steamboat for training?
SPEAKER_01Um it's been a good year for running. The skiing was pretty lousy, but steamboat's kind of this unique place where there's still snow to Nordic ski up on the pass at 10,000 feet, and that's 25-minute drive for me or so. And then the running has been great all winter. Like and I'm road running when I say great, but you know, when the sun comes out, the roads dry out, and I've had nice running all winter. So and then now the trails are dry, so we're mountain biking, running. Um, yeah. So it's it's been pretty good, especially for like trying to do these early races with Big Alta and and Gorge Waterfalls.
Why Big Alta And Gorge
SPEAKER_03Yeah, talk about that. Let's uh why why these early season races? Is this strategic for another part of your like to start ramping things up early for the summer season? Um, yeah, why why both of these?
SPEAKER_01Um it was kind of like I I put out a ton of races on my calendar and I was trying to pick and choose what to do. I was talking to my coach about it, looking at what fit my normal life schedule, stuff like that. And I put Big Alta out there, and I was like, I don't know if it suits me that well, but it'll kind of like keep me honest all winter if I just have this carrot out there. And um my coach supported that and and then just kind of fit the schedule. It was convenient to go, like easy flights, that whole like everything kind of just made that work. And then uh for Gorge, I was on the fence for another race, and I had family friends that were heading out to it, and um they were like, Well, we're gonna race it, you know, like let's just go. And so it's kind of yeah, just fell into place. Um, but ultimately I wanted to get 250Ks in to my legs, like just to try to harden my legs early in the spring. I'm gonna do Snowdonia 100k in a couple weeks. Okay. So that was kind of like their training races for that.
SPEAKER_03I is there controversy around Snowdonia? I've heard that they've changed the course and people were upset. Uh I've heard this is out of the UTMB races outside of UTMB proper, I've heard this is one of the most amazing courses that they have in their kind of in their course lineup.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's what got me excited for initially, you know. And and I guess the controversy, I don't really read the UTMB emails and stuff. So if it weren't for other podcasts, um, I don't think I really would even be aware of how controversial that was. I just thought that the vert had decreased. But to me, I was like, well, it's still like 16,000 feet of earth, so seems like enough. And I've never ran that far. So as long as it's fun, single track, and you know, good trails, like I don't know. I don't have much to complain about. I think it would be a good challenge regardless.
SPEAKER_03What what uh what interests you about the 100k? I'm just curious as far as like this because I I've always known you as this like cirque series stud short trail runner. Obviously, you're the reigning US 2025 US mountain rain champion, you've competed in the 14k in the short trail at worlds. Why why move up to this longer 100k distance?
SPEAKER_01I think just to try it, um, and then and then ultimately um if it goes well and I enjoy it to do CCC in 2027.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um but but I think part of it is just like seeing what it's like, like whether it goes well or not, just sort of dabble in it and experience it, and then after Snowdonia, the rest of my season is sub Ultra. Nice.
SPEAKER_03Interrupting this episode to talk to you guys about Ceta Socks, the official partner of the Steep Stuff Podcast. How much do you guys love your feet? I mean, I do. I love my feet. I really care about my feet. But I also care about your feet. But not in that way. Get your mind out of the gutter. Ceta Socks, keeping your feet stable, protected, and in control since 1975. Bringing you guys an anatomical fit and superior hybrid composition materials. Cetus incorporates odor control, ankle support, and anti-slip grip strips into some of my favorite models. Check out the Run Anatomic Comfort and the Run Anatomic, two of my favorites, online at CDUS.us. CDUS is the official footcare partner of UTMB in Western States. Cetus, your foot company.
SPEAKER_01So I'll do some golden trails and not marathon. So it's kind of nice to just like get this long one in and then I kind of have the freedom to chase the stuff that I already know I enjoy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's a different kind of pain, right? And I think it speaks to the type of athlete. It's a rare athlete that can be good at both. If you can figure out both, and you're trending towards it. I mean, you you finally cracked the 50k distance. I mean, OCC, which we'll talk about, was an amazing performance of yours. Now there's this opportunity to go up, but just have that type of range, I feel like almost exemplifies um just like true mastery of the sport, if you can, if that even is a thing, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I yeah, I don't I'm certainly far from mastering any of it, but but no, I think yeah, I'm just kind of curious because because in 50k, my my struggle is that I just really want to race. Like like it feels weird to be holding back so long. Um, because like all my races up until last year or two were two hours or shorter. So you're not scared about redlining too soon and the consequences three hours later. And then now I'm thinking about a nine and a half hour race, and I'm like, oh gosh, you know. So I think it'll be fun to just experience it and I'm sure I'll learn a ton. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, it'll be a sweet trip. I've never been to the UK, any of that. It's supposed to be beautiful.
Big Alta Win: Heat And Fuel
SPEAKER_03And I've heard, I mean, like, I I I think where I learned about it more was probably on the single track podcast. I think Finn had uh someone on last year to talk about it, and even it like tempted me. I was like, wow, I gotta go over there and see what this is all about. There used to be a sick sky race kind of not too far from there. Um, I think it still exists, it's like the Ring of Steel, but it used to be on the Golden Trail series. Um supposed to be an amazing course, but yeah, those types of areas intrigue me a lot. Yeah. Um, let's go back to Big Alta, uh, talk about Big Alta 28k or sorry, 50k and uh Gorge. Out of the two, it's funny, man. I would have picked you to have won Gorge, being knowing your style, coming from where you come from, and like your your prowess on technicality, versus like Big Alta, which is a much a little bit of a faster race, just a different course and much hotter, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And I I would have always said, I'm terrible with the heat, suffer with the heat. And on that day, like I was like, oh, this feels good. Like I was kind of craving some heat after the whole winter, but I I handled it just fine. And then other folks looked like they were suffering. Like when Drew finished, he was really pale, and you know, took him a little bit, a couple cokes to get back to life. Yeah. Um, somehow I was handling it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Did you do any heat training ahead of time, or like did you just nail your uh, you know, I guess your your hydration perfectly? Like what do you think? Or or maybe you're just maybe you just gotta figure it out.
SPEAKER_01Like Yeah, no, I I mean I think sometimes there's just like luck involved, but I didn't do any heat training. It kind of was one of those things where I was like, I'll probably do some heat training. And then each week that I got closer to the race, I didn't do any of it. And then like the week of, I was I was kind of like, well, I'm not gonna waste time sitting in the sauna if it's too late or whatever. So I didn't bother with it, but I I did I raced really conservatively, and I think going out easier um and staying in my comfort zone, it made it so I hydrated and fueled really well for the first two thirds of the race. Um, and then in that last third, I really started to push it, and and then I was actually this is that's usually where I start to go sour if I do have a bad day. And like the nutrition worked out the whole way through, and I was drinking like a liter an hour, and that was my goal. I was like, if I can just stay hydrated, um I'll I'll prioritize staying hydrated over getting enough carbs in. Yeah, it seemed like it panned out at least that day.
SPEAKER_03Strategy-wise, how did that race roll out for you? Like, was Drew with you? Because I obviously really impressed. Like, you beat Drew by seven minutes, and he's you know, obviously he's an amazing athlete in the space. Um you beat quite a few big names. Were you guys bunched up together? Were you uh were you running alone? At what point in time, like did you find yourself kind of at the front?
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, well early on we were kind of a group, and then as soon as we hit the hills, it started to spread out, and then on the first downhill, it went uh like really blew apart with um I I met him there, the guy who won Coca-Dona at 250. Oh, Dan Green. Yep. Dan, yeah, Dan lit it up on the first downhill, and he was out of sight um like half a mile later. And then Drew and Ryan and a few others were kind of chasing his pace. But I just coming off a winner, not really doing any steep trail running, I was just cautious not to blow my legs up on the descent early. Um but then maybe 10 miles in, I moved into third, and then started to to catch Drew, got with him, and we ran we ran maybe seven miles together or something. And it was awesome because like we both knew of each other, and so when we got together, I was like, Oh, what's up, Drew? And got to chat, and uh then um then we caught Dan together, and then we got to the high point of the course, him and I. Um, and there was like a steep little kicker, maybe like a three-minute climb, and it was the steepest pitch I'd seen all day. And I kind of was just like, I wonder if I go hard, what Drew will do. And then it we immediately separated from each other, and then it it was one of those things where I was like, Well, I guess I'm committed, and I just kind of pushed hard through the next couple rollers, and then that was the first long downhill uh to the final eight station. That was the first time I really tried to descend fast versus almost braking and trying to be controlled. Um, and my legs handled it fine. Um, I think there's something to be said for like running these paved downhills fast, like it's not the same type of braking that I'm used to with like mountain running, but it my legs were more durable than I expected. So but yeah, then I had like seven miles on my own or so, and I was just kind of it's funny because he said seven minutes ahead of Drew, but like I was looking over my shoulder like every few minutes. So I was just like, Oh man, Drew's so good at finishing races strong, he's probably gonna come in on me. Um, but yeah, it just went well, felt really good. Nice, nice. I think good strategy. Sorry. Yeah, it's nice when it works.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no. Well, I was gonna say is like, I don't know, I find this interesting. This is uh this is something I think I need to learn more about, and maybe I think a lot of athletes need to take something away from the way you strategize. I I before in the lead up to this, I was re-listened to our post-race episode on Sunnepe, kind of talking about strategy. And you were talking about how you found yourself back in like 20th place and just kind of waited, you know, obviously still stuck yourself in the race, but waited to make a move until later on and just kind of wear guys down. And it seems like this very similar strategy, even in a much longer race, seems to work where you kind of you're still in the mix, but you're not destroying yourself, you're watching the race play out, and then as you start to wear guys down, that's where you find yourself in the ability to make a move.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think like someone in uh in Big Alta, when we were running like right off the start line and going like sub six minute pace. This guy looked over at me, he was like, Man, adrenaline's wild drugs. And I was like, Yeah, we're going way too fast. But but I think that happens almost every race. Like we like negative splitting is rare, so yeah, it feels a lot better to at least attempt to do that. Yeah.
Gorge Waterfalls: Racing Too Hard
SPEAKER_03Well, I always think I laugh because like I uh I mean, I haven't raced in a while. Last time I raced was like last September at Targi. And I was laughing to myself, thinking about like all the people that go off so hard off the line, and they immediately come right back to you in the first 300 yards, maybe even less than that, where people just start to huff and puff, and then all of a sudden they get past. I'm just like, what is the point of starting so fast like that? You know, you're just gonna destroy, you're gonna you know go lactic anyway, and it's blow up. But anyway, yeah. Um yeah, that's interesting. Let's talk. Uh, what did you think about Gorge? Like, obviously, this year was a big year. ACG sponsored it, so there was like a serious, not just a media circus, but serious sponsor circus, and there was a lot of like uh just uh d discussion around it this year. Uh what did you think about that? How how was the just the race for you in general and and just the atmosphere?
SPEAKER_01Um the the atmosphere is awesome. It seemed like they I mean, like all those races by those guys are just well done, and I feel like it's very professional, but also has this kind of just like comfortable, like small town feel with it, with the two I've done. But they they do a really good job. And then with Nike being involved, that was it seemed like it may have just brought a little more hype and uh and then there's all their athletes at the different disciplines. Um so that was cool to see people in the the 30k, 50k, 100k, like all of them crushing. But um, but yeah, and then the course is really cool. Um really fun single track, probably you know, 90% is legit single track where you're thinking about your footing and all that. It's sort of strange though, the whole time you're racing, you can hear the highway. So you're like paralleling the highway. So that was kind of a unique vibe because you feel like you're way out there. And then if you are climbing and going slow enough that you're not just hearing your own breath and footsteps, you'd hear the highway. Um, but yeah, no, I've I really like that course. I would for sure go back again. Um by the end, my ankles and kind of feet and just like mind was ready to be done with the technical trail. Um, I had I haven't really spent a lot of time on tr technical trails yet. So it it actually wore on me more than I would have suspected. Interesting. Um yeah, I think just like transitioning from road running and and um like the lower trails in Steamboat that are dry right now are the ones that are basically like buttery, smooth, green bike trails. Um and then yeah, but it was a great course. And the way that race played out was a little different than Big Alta, where I just kind of decided I should go with the leaders from the gun and just see like what it where I would be if I tried to hang on. And so I didn't really like ease into it. I felt like I was just looking, putting pacing to the side and just racing like head to head. And when I'd look at my heart rate or just off like body feel, I was I knew I'd probably pay for it uh last 10 miles or so, and then I pretty much got to like eight miles to go and I blew up so bad.
SPEAKER_03Oh man.
SPEAKER_01And it was probably just like a combination of underfueling, and uh there was a few spots where the winner was just hammering, and I I knew he was it seemed like he was kind of like testing me or playing with me a little, and I was I was okay with it. I was like, let's let's just race and see how it goes. But um, yeah, I paid for it, and then it probably from like mile eight to mile seven, I was like recovering, you know, and then the last mile was like I feel okay again. Um, but in that time I slipped a third. But yeah, it was a positive experience though. Yeah, that's a great race.
SPEAKER_03And a cool area, too. Like Cascade Locks is unique. You get on the PCT. I've been only been on that course once, but yeah, it is weird how you're just above the highway, you jump off, and then sometimes you're on the road, like there's road sections that make it super fast as well. Yeah, that's a those courses are are like sneaky fast, like very even though there's some technical trail in there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and the road was it was interesting to go from like techie downhill, hop on pavement for a mile and a half, and then go up a steep climb. And you know, like my I felt like there's a little bit of like my legs didn't know what was happening, and you like start to get into the stride, and then you yeah, it's climb and then you descend, your legs are a little jellow from descending, and then you're going straight into like a fast road mile. So I mean, yeah, I wouldn't say I was maybe the best prepared for it, or um, or just like it was challenging for me, like it just didn't it didn't feel natural, but I think that's also maybe what I needed too. Like maybe that will make me more uh durable, come Snowdonia.
Building Durability With Cross-Training
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's a good rust buster, you know. You already got a win, you know, at Big Alta that gives you confidence, and then you competed with you know, almost I mean, may possibly a deeper field, arguably, because Jen Lichner was in this there's quite a few like stud athletes in this race uh at Gorge. So it's a good good opportunity to kind of see where you're at early season, especially for the longer stuff. And you know, it's always interesting. What um not to pivot too hard, but as far as uh your coach David Roche, um, I know going into Sun of P he had you doing a bunch of track stuff and uh really trying to help you kind of equalize the footing when it comes to you versus like maybe road athletes, if you will, or athletes on the track. Um have you been getting on the track at all in this offseason, or has it been like doing a lot of speed stuff or threshold work, kind of getting into some of these longer stuff? Or what does your kind of your training look like from a hole, or has it been more aerobic?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I I'd say right now it's been a pretty good mix of everything. Um I have not been on the track yet, and I know that's coming after Snowdonia, but um yeah, I feel like it's been a really good mix of like rolling terrain, tempo work with Hill repeats. In there for just like you know the aerobic side of it, but also running back down the steep downhills and building up my like tolerance to downhilling. Um but it yeah, I'd say it just seems like very well rounded right now. And then the classic roach stuff with lots of strides, just keeping um like I guess it's you never stop trying to improve your economy and speed. Um, but yeah, that's kind of what I've been doing. Throughout the winter, it was mainly uphill treadmill workouts for my intensity and then some strides uh midweek. But then most of my volume came through Nordic skiing. Um and now that I'm not Nordic skiing as much, I just throw into mountain biking and skiing on the weekends if the if the conditions are good. So because I I feel like it's one of those things where I don't think it's true, but in my kind of like gut feeling or mine, as I do more running workouts, I feel like my volume drops and then the my sense of like fitness decreases. Like I like I I want to do long bike rides or like ski workouts just to feel fit, even though I I'm pretty sure like measurably I'm like fitter when I'm doing these good running workouts, but um that's like part of it. I just love spending hours uh exercising, and so I know I'll break down if I try to run too much. I do a lot of cross-training.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, I was gonna ask you about that. Like, what does your volume look like as far as the mountain biking goes? Like, does that play because I know a lot of guys and gals, and like I don't know, gravel biking is obviously a big thing, but mountain biking kind of like where you live is a is a great idea. I mean, there's just like kind of and there's great mountain biking trails. Um talk about how much you supplement with uh the mountain biking and as you will, like throughout the summer and stuff like that for volume.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I have I mean, so a mountain bike and gravel ride. Um I pretty much probably just out of convenience as well, mountain bike the most, um, maybe gravel ride once a week or something. But a lot of it's it's sort of like unstructured. Um, like if I do a quality running session in the morning, then in the afternoon I'll often mountain bike with my wife. And it's kind of like we both get off work and it's like the fun thing to do, go ride together. Um and then that's like, yeah, there's no structure around that. It's just like ride for an hour or two hours, whatever we have time for. Um, and then on the weekend, if we can do like a big gravel ride, that's that's always uh something I want to fit in. But yeah, and I think with like for Roach, we've uh I don't know how he coaches other folks, but like he knows that I want to ride a lot and that it's a good way to hang out with Jess. So it's like um he'll just say like cross-train or eat or uphill treadmill, you know, for a double session. And so if I'm if it's lousy weather for mountain biking, then I might do an uphill treadmill session as like the second workout of the day. Nice.
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah. Yeah, it's it's interesting. Do you do a lot of doubles? Like, has that been is that a big uh especially for where you're at in the build now for Snowdonia, or even for a shorter lace race, like a golden trail race, uh, maybe thinking back to like uh or even like thinking back to like OCC. Are you doing a ton of doubles kind of leading up to it? I'm just so curious as to how like some of that programming works.
SPEAKER_01Um I don't I pretty much never do a running double. But from I guess from my background in cross-country skiing, we always did doubles. Um, like at least six days a week were doubles. And so now it's it's kind of just like habit. And I feel like if I run in the morning before work, when I get off work in the afternoon, I'm like, I've been sitting in the office all day, like I just need to do something, even if it's not necessarily for a specific training goal. So I pretty much do doubles every day. Um, but I I wouldn't say it's necessarily like highly structured doubles. Um, and the way I tend to prioritize it is trying to get the running workout done for the first workout of the day. Because like as fit as I feel like I sometimes get with the the running and biking or um yeah, running biking combos, if I bike first, I often just feel like my legs kind of feel zapped when I try to run. Where like if I run first, my legs always feel great to ride. Um but yeah, that's kind of what we do. Like um, yeah, not not like a huge rhyme or reason to it all the time. Do you um what about strength?
SPEAKER_03Do you spend a lot of time in the gym doing like strength work in the offseason or just it at all in general?
SPEAKER_01Uh man, I always try to do more than I uh end up actually doing. But I probably do one session a week at least, and then I aim for two. Um, and if I can, I'll try to stack it with like if I do morning intervals, then in the afternoon I'll try to do strength then and just keep the hard days hard. Um, but yeah, it's kind of funny because like when I was cross-country skiing, we did so much upper body and core, and now it's like I do step-ups and single-leg uh split squats, things like that. Where like when I was a skier, I was just like, I don't want my legs to be tired from lifting because I want to do such high volume skiing. And maybe if I did it all over again, I'd actually lift with my legs. Because I even just for the sake of injury prevention. Um, but I guess you just like learn along the way. But for some reason, I never lifted a bit. I didn't do a single like squat while I was ski racing. It's just kind of weird. That is interesting, dude.
SPEAKER_03It's so funny, like body types in our sport. Like, I think about guys that are like traditional cross-country, uh, or like even like I'd say more so track and field guys that are like really skinny that come into the sport versus the fitness of like someone that comes maybe from like you know your background with Norwich skiing. And Norwich skiing guys, obviously it depends on the discipline, but they're quite a bit like more muscular, more powerful athletes, and they have just as big, if not bigger, aerobic engines and can hang with those guys. So I always like laugh at that moniker that, like, oh, you have to be super tiny or super skinny to be able to compete with, you know, at the toppest point of the sport. It's not necessarily true. Like a lot of the the Nordic skiers are very powerful athletes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think it translates super well. Yeah. Um yeah, and I think that's working with Roach, I've luckily been able to kind of hone in the engine and the strength from skiing to some more running specificity, where like there were times where I just if the race wasn't really, really well suited to me, I struggled. But now I think I'm getting more, more well-rounded where yeah, sections of courses, I typically would have said that's a bad area for me. Now I'm running comfortably in that area.
Mount Marathon Legacy And Tactics
SPEAKER_03Yeah, dude, Rush is a genius, man. That guy's a great coach. Like he's obviously, you know, he's one of the best coaches in the sport, if not the. So it's interesting how he's able to help athletes develop, really develop their weaknesses and just continue to improve and then obviously get better at the things they're already good at. So yeah, yeah, yeah. The formula is interesting. Um, I want to shift gears a little bit and go to talk to you about Mount Marathon. Um, I know this race means a ton to you. Do you know a lot of your stats on it? Like in the sense, are you are you a nerd? Like, I went into the stats before us talking. I mean, with six wins, do you know you're all you're tied with Sven Johansson and kind of Brad Bukoski and kind of Bill Spencer for only one other guy has won seven in a row, or is seven in general, and you have six, you have potential to make history this year by going for seven. Is Bill the he has seven? Bill has seven, but it's a tie in 1986. The only tie.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, and I'm I'm definitely not a big nerd on it, but I and then I but I know enough stuff like that. Like growing up, those guys were legends. But then I think Nina Kempel has won nine in the women's field. Yep, very true. Um so yeah, I and some of those stats, I'm reminded of those because people just ask me those questions or you know, bring it up. But yeah, it that'd be awesome to get a seventh one this summer.
SPEAKER_03What does a race mean to you, dude? Like obviously, growing up in Alaska, and I mean it's it's a big deal, you know, and you're you're you know, you grow up and hear it, you hear about all these legends and all these things, and then to go do the damn thing and have the course record and be one of the winningest uh people ever at that sport. Like, what is what or what does this like race in general mean to you?
SPEAKER_01Um, I mean, yeah, it means a lot. It's it's pretty special in the case of like I I'd always thought it was an awesome race, but I never thought it I would do it. And when I was ski racing, there's some, you know, a lot of the coaches were like, uh, you guys would probably do great, but like you don't want to injure yourself. Kind of that mentality. And then kind of respectfully, I told my coach I signed up for Mount Marathon. And I was like, I I I know what you mean, but I kind of want to do it. And he just was like, go all out to the top, and if if you're gonna win, you're probably gonna be leading at the top so you can take the downhill safely. And that was what I did my first year and kind of have always aimed to race that way, but but that first year doing that race kind of was my first, like uh kind of like dipping my toe into like real mountain running. Like I'd done a lot of VKs and stuff around Anchorage, but doing that race, maybe just because it's gets more hype, it like got me like realizing that mountain running would be really cool to do. And exposed me to people like Ricky Gates. Like we became friends through Mount Marathon, and then he encouraged me to chase some more running races if if I was interested in them. And he was like, You like you can do this if you want, kind of thing. Where I just was like, oh, like mountain running is something you do in Anchorage to train for skiing. Um, so it kind of made my awareness of mountain running grow from doing Mount Marathon. And then that whole Alaska mountain running community, they're just they're there's well, it's massive, and it's an awesome group of people to train with, and they kind of encourage me to do more as well, I feel like. So I don't know. The whole thing, it just kind of all like happened and was really like fun, and everybody's super supportive of me. So uh I'm grateful that I kind of jumped in there and tried it out, and now I'm still doing it. Yeah, plan on keeping doing it until I don't know. Till the wheel space. Are you a lifery do it forever?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I was gonna say, are you a lifer? Will you continue to do this until like even as you slow down as you get into your 40s, 50s, uh and then become become an old guy?
SPEAKER_01Like Yeah, oh for sure. I mean, I think it's it's one of those things where it's such a good excuse just to go home and see family and friends that like Alaska during mid-July is uh usually great. So I'll I'll keep doing it for that sake, you know. And um, but I'll probably get to a point where like I've I've prioritized it to the point of like, you know, like giving up a river trip over Fourth of July to go do the the race, stuff like that. And maybe in 10 years I'm not gonna prioritize it over a coveted river drawing, stuff like that. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_03Are you how how into the weeds do you get about it as far as like strategy at this race? Like, or do you have it figured out now? Because that's the thing. I always I always love getting into the mind of the greats, the people that figure figure stuff out to an obsessive level. Um do you have like a strategy when you approach this thing uh that maybe others just have not quite figured out?
SPEAKER_01Uh no, I doubt, I doubt that. I feel like everything I know about the race, I pretty much have gone from other folks because there's so many Alaskans that have ran that mountain like in a single summer, they'll run the mountain more than I have total in my life, kind of thing. And so pretty early on, I was just like picking their brains and learning from those guys. And I think their advice was good from the very start. So I've just kind of stuck with their advice and the strategy really like I think there's some pacing components that um like I I think there's a it takes a ton of discipline to run and hike and combine them. Because like once you start hiking, it's hard to not uh just continue hiking. So switching gears, and I think that's maybe less strategy, but more like I just have this like I I observed and could feel that like if you're hiking for 45 seconds and then you can take 10 seconds of fast running or be a little more explosive and then settle back in. You can just keep like lurching ahead of people or putting in time where uh like if there's a bunch of steep routes or something, like try to actually accelerate through the challenging spots versus like I don't know, it's really easy to almost get bogged down in those sections. Um so I kind of just try to like stay really focused on like the 60 seconds ahead of me because there's enough weird terrain and even like left and right in the trail where you have to decide which why, like, are you gonna go left at this one or right here? Or you can cut switchbacks and spots and um like everything goes at Mount Marathon, so it's kind of unique in that way. Interesting. Um yeah, so and then there's even like a lot of people climb like on this one trail more towards the right, but I've only done it on the left side, so I just keep sticking with my one route. Um, cliffs kind of thing, yeah, stuff like that. Yeah, so I've only done the cliffs. Maybe if I practice the roots, I could do the roots faster, but like there's not enough time to do it anyways. Um, not living up there now. So yeah, it's that kind of stuff, but it makes it fun. And then the mountain changes every year depending on how the snow kind of melts out and stuff, like rocks will be moved, and um yeah, like I don't know. It's just kind of cool. Like, if people get the chance to go, it's definitely a sweet trip to like go up there, get a halibut fishing trip in or something, plus a sweet run race. It's I don't know. I think it should be like a bucket list race for non-runners.
SPEAKER_03Oh, dude, I mean it's legendary. I I'm excited. I was just talking to Jackson Cole, who's uh who's uh a friend of the podcast. He's going up there to race this year. I love seeing like guys from the lower 48 that are very competitive go up to try their hand at it. Like Max King has obviously had success. Um, you know, obviously Ricky Gates and Killian, you know, obviously made it, you know, started went there and made it big. What was your relationship like with Ricky? I I've had him on the podcast, super interesting guy. Like I one of my top ten favorite humans in the sport.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I mean uh we just like got to know each other through yeah, like kind of the after party stuff in Mount Marathon, and then my wife did grad school in Albuquerque, so I and he was in Santa Fe, so I hit him up to I was like, hey, I'll come into Santa Fe for like a long run if you want. And he'd always throw out a long bike ride as his uh plan. And so we actually I've I don't know if I've actually or I've done one run with him, but I've we've probably done three mountain bike rides together, um, which is kind of funny because I just like think of him as like the trail runner, but he's he's so good on a mountain bike, it's nuts. Really? And he'll be on yeah, and he'll be on like a hardtail just dropping me. Interesting. It's on the downhills, too. He's like great techie, smooth rider.
SPEAKER_03So dude, he he's a man of many, like apparently he I didn't know this, but he was like friends with or might be still be like friends with like Lance Armstrong. Like he's he's kind of like friends with he's friends with everybody. Interesting cat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's I mean, all these mountain runners are they're unique people and they're fun to hang out with. Um, yeah, like similarly with uh I want I I was in Durango for like half a summer, so I was trying to I hit up Joe Grant for some trail advice. Interesting guy. And um yeah, and he was gave me some trail recommendations, and then he was kind of similar to Joe uh uh Ricky where he was like, You want to go mountain biking? I was like, Where are all these trail runners running to mountain bike? But I think just later in their career, the you know, people have ran enough miles, they're having fun doing alternative modes of exercise, I guess.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, it's it's super interesting. And and yeah, I guess it's also just the the athlete themselves. Like they you know, you diversify a little bit, find other modalities and other things that get you because I don't know. I I think about this a lot, and it's like I I obsess and love the art and the skill of running and getting good at the mountain running aspect of it, like that craft. But there's definitely I mean there's other interests too. It's like how many, you know, biking I think it can be just as fun and just as competitive, if not more. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's interesting. What about Killian? Did after you broke the course record at Mount Marathon, did Killian did Killian like say anything to you or reach out to you? Because that's a really big deal to take a KJ record.
SPEAKER_01He he never reached out to me directly, but he wrote he texted, or I don't know if probably Matias like heckled him or something, but Matias, I'm pretty sure, texted him or vice versa, and and Killian just was you know, like, congratulations, maybe I have a reason to come back now. That kind of thing. Because I think Killing, like, you know, he likes to have course records and stuff, but but I assume now with kids and all his other projects, um Mount Marathon's maybe low on his to-do list now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's a bummer. I know Ricky said the last time I had him on the show last year, I was pressing him on it, and he said he would go back. So it would be cool to see him go back to Mount Marathon. And uh, I think Max wants to come back as well. And it's cool to see people just do the thing year over year. Do you do you think so you've run 4037? Do you think sub 40 is possible? Like, is that gonna happen over the next five years, you think?
SPEAKER_01Um, I think it's possible for sure. Um last summer, Matias was kind of asking me, do you think you can break 40? And then I I kind of was like, yeah, I mean, if if this is if it's breakable, I'll do I'll do it this year, kind of thing. Like, or that was my like this is as good of a year as any. And I thought I'd set a PR, and I didn't even come close to my PR. And I think there's just weird stuff on on race day, and it doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason, like snowy years versus less snow, all that stuff. Um like yeah, it's so strange how the times sometimes are just so much better than other years, and I can't really explain them. Except for like there's one year that was just stupid hot and that was really hard to climb in, but um, but yeah, I think the summer, like I would love to see how close I can get to 40. Um, and then I think with training for the golden trail races a bit more rather than OCC, um, like maybe I'll be a little better prepared for it as well.
OCC And Worlds: Lessons Learned
SPEAKER_03Gotcha. Not to shift too hard off of uh Mount Marathon, because I did want to talk to you about OCC and and worlds as well. I mean, that was your first time uh at worlds, you know, going to uh you were, if I remember correctly, from one of our conversations, you were an Olympic alternate, correct? So you were very close to competing for TNUSA at one point in time. This time you get to compete for the stars and stripes. Obviously, it's a huge deal for you. Um how did you stack those two? Getting ready for OCC and then the 14k for um for worlds, like obviously two very different types of races. How did you kind of reconcile that and get ready for both of those?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I think the Roach approach is to never veer too far away from speed. So I don't think it was like terrible lead up prepping for OCC. Um, it probably took a bit out of me. Um but I felt like I was really well prepared for OCC and then probably more at I mean completely at my fault, not Roach's training plan, but um I was kind of cooked after OCC, but that my where I say my fault, I got a bear tag and I started bear hunting like every evening for for a couple weeks, and I I think it it was one of those things that like uh really fun and I love doing that stuff, but like this maybe like 10 days before leaving for Worlds, I was like, I'm so overcooked, like The workouts don't feel that good and I'm um just out here like hiking around the mountains trying to find a the elusive bear. But but uh so yeah, I didn't even apply for the bear tag this fall because I was like, it's too much of a temptation. If I draw it, I'm gonna do it. So uh but but yeah, I think the training plan and stuff was actually great. Um and then worlds is just unique, where like Sunopee is a like a real mountain course and like challenging and with the vert and and and the technicality on the second lap, particularly. But then worlds was like felt like a high school cross-country race. Like we were it was like pretty buttery, smooth. Um, like the photos that were all like on this one like 50 meter section of Rocky single track, but really the whole trail was really smooth. Um, like I think some of the top African guys that were top 10 were in road road carbon shoes. So it was kind of crazy. So I felt like I was pretty well prepared and I raced, I had a great race, but I don't think it like reflected my skill set as well. Yeah. Um where like the the other Americans on the squad um were like Taylor and Mason are they're such good backgrounds and college running that I think their feed really uh showed their and they were so strong there. And then like Cam and I are maybe a slightly more on the like the mountain uh background, and so we were maybe struggling a bit, but yeah, it's interesting.
SPEAKER_03I mean, dude, it not to not to talk too much shit, but like I find it interesting and kind of funny because like you've beaten, and a lot of the guys on the American team have beaten the reigning 14k champion, Philemon, and so it just courses it depends on the course, man, and uh and who should and how you show up that day, you know. It's it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01No, and like a prime example is that uh I raced Philemon maybe three summers ago in a circ series, yeah. I was there at Brighton, and you beat him, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it was crazy because on the service road, he gapped me because it was just like smooth running, and then I I came over a little hill and it was rocky and technical, and all of a sudden this like 30-second gap was like a five-second gap. And the way he came to me so quickly and he was out of sight just with like the terrain, how it was, that would all of a sudden see him, I thought he'd like fallen and hurt himself because I closed that quickly. But it was it was legitimately just he didn't really like he was putting his hands on the rocks and stuff, yeah. Um where like I was like skipping across the top of the rocks.
SPEAKER_03Are you talking about you're talking about the ascent on Millicent, right? Going up that rock scramble.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and then once you and then you traverse a little bit before the snow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's funny. But that's where that's the only reason I ended up beating him was because of that train I was comfortable in, and he wasn't as much. But if we were doing service roads that whole day, he would have smoked me. Yeah, so it was uh it was just one of those eye-opening things where you're like, man, it's crazy. Like, I guess a good lesson for people not to like give up hope, you know, like because races like yeah, the front ten could be different than the back ten. Oh you can make a lot of like your own.
SPEAKER_03The course really matters. I think that's a big that's a big thing. Well, and the other thing too is like, yeah, it's it's just um yeah. So I and I guess a lot of those African guys don't train on super technical stuff. Like, I guess they obviously they come from more of a traditional running background where they're running a lot of roads at higher altitudes and stuff like that. And you know, it doesn't necessarily translate to rocky technical stuff. You know, I mean you you'll be good at it, but like you know, you for instance come from a background of Alaskan mountain runner. So technical to you is a different definition than technical to you know someone else. Let's talk uh OCC, man. Uh what were your thoughts on that? Because I thought that was an amazing performance. Third American, you were behind the best mountain runners on planet Earth. Um Luca Del Perro, Antonio Martinez, Adam Peterman was in that mix. There was quite a few guys in there. How did that I just want to get the recap from you? Like, how did that race unfold for you? Uh were you in that position the whole time? Were you back and forth? Like, how did uh it kind of unfold? Because the the I guess you could say the the live stream was very fixated on like Jim, for instance, and stuff like that. Yeah, so couldn't really tell like what was happening throughout the rest of the race.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's I mean, typical, you know, like the Olympics were like that, where you're like, there's also you know, 60 other people in this race than the front four. But um, yeah, the the OCT was um, yeah, I felt awesome in it. Um and I paced it pretty conservatively again. Um I was running with Adam Peterman and a good group of guys down to like the base of the long climb. And because of uh I don't know, because we didn't go up Blaf Liege or however you say it, um, we dropped lower and did a longer climb in the middle of the race. And at the base of that, I was maybe in like 15th place, or you know, a group of guys that were maybe like 10th to 15th, and then it was uh it seemed like it was an hour straight of just like working your way up the hill to the high point of the course. And from there I went all the way up to second place. Um and it's sort of classic. I did the same thing the year before where I started moving into um like podium position, and two years ago I was running with uh Francesca Poopy, and we were in second and third towards the high point of the course, and and then I kind of just like imploded and got sick in my belly and stuff. And uh I was like, I'm not gonna make that same mistake, and then I started to see Jim towards um maybe like towards the second half of that climb where he starts getting steeper and there's a little more altitude, but I could see him in the switchbacks, and then I think I probably redlined it for like 10 minutes, and all of a sudden it just like hit me, and um like I got really nauseous until I dealt with some puking and stuff like that. But I made it over the top of that saddle, and when I started descending, like my belly came back, everything felt good. Um, and maybe I was in oh maybe sixth place there or seventh place, and um one guy passed me on the descent, and then Adam passed me with like four more miles to go or something like that. And when Peterman came by, he was he looked so strong. Like it was one of those things where it sucks to get past, but when you see him, it's it's almost like nice to have seen what he was doing at the end of a long 50k. Because now in training and stuff, like if I'm like tired at the end of a set, I'm like, I need to run strong like this today, because like otherwise I'll never have a chance of doing it at 55k into a race. Um, but yeah, that's I mean, the race played out like maybe for third through twelfth place. We had a lot of pace uh place changes, but you know, like uh Jim was out front, you know, from the start, I think. So we didn't really interact with him.
SPEAKER_03He had a little scare, obviously, from that one dude. Uh I think there was an Italian or French athlete, but other than that, yeah. What um I don't know, like anything did you what did you learn from this one? Because this one was obviously your this is your second go? Something like that. Yeah, second go. So what did you anything taken away from this? Because it seemed like you obviously learned from the first one. Um that you can apply going into this year for 202.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um I mean after my my gut got so messed up, I kind of like try to think about it more just like rationally. And looking at what I was taking in early in the race, I think I I think I've kind of gone into ultras thinking, well, like it's my heart rate's lower, I'm more relaxed. Maybe in the first hour I should like like the whole feed often and early. And maybe I took that too much to heart and I would overfuel in the first like 90 minutes of the race, and then it kind of hits me two hours in or two and a half hours in. So I think I need to like just kind of pump the brakes on eating so much early. And maybe it's just something to do when I'm like early in the race. I'm like, oh I got gel in my pocket, I'll just like suck it down. Um, so I'm trying to be a little more calculated with that stuff. Um and then I think there's something to be said for like just because I feel confident climbing, I I don't need to also redline all the climbs. Like it's like maybe it's almost better to like relax in the climbs and then be able to run well um everywhere else on the course. And I think the mistake I've made at OCC is that that middle climb, um I don't know what the high point's called, but that middle climb is it's awesome because I pick people off and it I get really excited with that. But I think I if I when I do OCC again, I'm gonna try to make it relax a little bit more there, knowing that there's still an hour and a half of the race left after that point.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, do you do you feel like I mean, obviously, this is gonna be your third shot at it. I mean, you're you're reining top ten.
SPEAKER_01Um but but I'm not I didn't qualify for OCC though. Oh, you're not going back to 2026. Oh now I'm not in. Shit.
SPEAKER_03I don't know why I thought you were going back. Never mind.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sorry.
SPEAKER_03We'll talk about that. We'll get into the rest of the season. Well, is there any way to still get in? Because like I feel like, man, that's uh that's a it'd be great to send you back. They should just invite the top 10 back. I don't understand that. It's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's me with my like I don't know, ignorance, but I just figured it because they got a top 10 at OCC, I was in for next year. And then uh like this spring, I was they're like, Well, you're not you're not in. Oh my god. Whoops. Oh well. But it's odd to be honest though, when it's kind of like freeing not to be in because it opens up my whole summer to other things, and so that's why I'm hitting up all the golden trail races was kind of like like I love that subalter distance, and I've always wanted to do golden trails, but it was like too much travel, stuff like that. Um, and now it's kind of it's like all working out. So great, good. I'm I'm happy. I love it.
SPEAKER_03All right, before we go to the rest of your season, I do want to ask you one last question. Notoriety-wise, getting a top 10 at OCC. Obviously, the American scene knows who you are. You're the reigning mountain running champion, uh, obviously Mount Marathon. You've done a lot of things in the space here uh in the United States. Now you get this exposure overseas, get a top 10 there. Has that increased the profile a little bit? Like to more people, has that created more opportunities for you and gotten um, I don't know, just more out of it in the space.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um yeah, I mean it helped. Um, like I I renewed my contract with Awn, and it was great to keep getting support from them. And and I think they like the top 10 at OCC is something that they respected and saw that like there's more to come. Um and then, you know, like it's funny if I was maybe 20 years old, I would have taken some of those results and sent out like all these emails to different brand uh reps and stuff, trying to get more sponsorships. But like I feel like sometimes yeah, I've just been like sort of busy, like I haven't pursued some of that stuff that maybe I could have capitalized on. But I feel like I I feel lucky that I'm working with AN and have that support, and um and and now with like some of their increased support, I'm gonna travel a bit more to a few cool races. And so yeah, I think it's like paying off, and it's more than I ever expected. Like I came from cross-country skiing, it's like um, you know, you're like I'd make world championships for cross-country skiing, and that would come with like you know, a huge invoice from the US ski team, and you make uh world champs for the running team, and they cover your airfare over there and um hotel. So like, yeah, I I don't know. I can't say much more than just like feeling really fortunate and that this is I don't know, coolest thing ever. Like I kind of never thought I'd be doing this now. And uh yeah, like when I stopped ski racing, I was like, I'm done. Like probably not racing much after this, and then now I've like got this whole like I don't know, second wind of fun racing. So I'm gonna do it while I can. That's right, dude. Your holidays you're what 35, 36?
SPEAKER_03I think we're about the same age. Yeah, yeah. It's uh I don't know, it's weird thinking that but like I don't know, Max is ancient, like he's 46, dude. And he's fucking ancient. You know what I mean? Agent.
SPEAKER_01I just had him on the podcast. Max is crazy though. He's he's built different.
SPEAKER_03Dude, he's yeah, he he is built. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, he's he's an animal. Uh but like I feel like there's you can do this at a relatively high level, I feel like for a long time, or like relatively long time. Who knows?
SPEAKER_01But yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm I'm curious to see how long I can keep it up or you know, just how things shake out. Um yeah, it's running's awesome. Um I feel lucky that it's all like kind of just fallen into place and like getting to go to all these cool venues for running races. Like I I've always traveled for skiing, so it's awesome to be like in France in the summer and just like checking out those trails is so cool.
Golden Trails Travel Plus Day Job
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. No, it's it's an amazing opportunity. Where are we gonna so where are we where are we gonna see you after Snowdenia? Or uh what golden trail races are you gonna be racing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, so after Snowdonia, I'll do Mount Marathon, and then in August I'll do the Austrian uh Golden Trails and then Sierra Zenol. Cool. And then so I'll stay over there for the week between those two races and then be back home for a few weeks and then do the Japan-China combination. And it's sweet how like Golden Trails laid that out because uh really I'm not missing tons of time from work and stuff to pull off two races and then three weeks at home and then go back for two more races. So nice. Um and then I guess if I qualify, I'll go to uh Korea for the Golden Trail championships. Yeah, yeah. That of course looks sweet.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it does. It does. It's interesting the way they have everything set up this year. I mean, I've heard South Korea is amazing. Um so I think you're in for a treat there, you know, get go to the final. Uh if you, you know, when you make the final and stuff like that. And I think it'll be cool. The only question is it's like, how will you uh because I think you're the first athlete that I've talked to that's gonna be doing it and go like as far as the Asian tour. Um, let's say you do Japan and China. I guess you'll come back, work, and then go back out to South Korea. Should you make the final? Is that how you would do it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I handle jet lag easy going to Europe, but I think uh Asia is a different animal there. So we'll see. Um I mean, yeah, I guess uh like a a little bit if I can stay healthy. I assume you know all the hay's in the barn with the training. So even if I'm a little jet lagged or sleepy, like if I'm ready to perform, I think I should be able to pull it off. Um but yeah, I can't I can't take off more time from work, and it's it's one of those things where like I'm just like very fortunate that I can swing it the way I am as is. So I'll just make it work and uh yeah, I I think it will work out fine.
SPEAKER_03How do they I mean I know you're at work right now while we're while we're doing this interview? I just have such a question for you because like I also work as a finance professional, but I my like I don't ever talk about the my running life and stuff like that at work. I try to use my P but I work remote, so it's a little bit different, but I I just use my PTO for the stuff that I need to use it for and try to make everything work. You're obviously in an office. How do you do they know like who you are? And like, or are you like Batman where like you have your work life and then you have this other life that you live?
SPEAKER_01I think there's there's for sure three folks that like really know what I'm doing. Um like it's not like I keep a secret about where I'm leaving, even if even if I were discreet about it, you know, it's just like you come back and people are like, oh how's your trip? Where'd you go? Um But I think it's kind of like you know, when you if you're just talking to 10 people at the grocery store, if you said you did mountain running, few of them would know who killing is, and then a few don't even know what mountain running means. Like to them, going for a jog is like the pavement around their house, you know, in the neighborhood, just for some cardio. I don't know, you know, but um so there's kind of like the the office has the whole mix of it. Um but living in steamboat, everyone's pretty active, and I think people know kind of what's what's up, and like, you know, even like one of my good friends here, he's walking his dog all the time on similar trails that I run. But then his his like perceptions just he's like blown away by like, wait, I ran or I walked my dog on all those trails throughout the entire summer, but like that's a single run for runners, you know. Like, so he's kind of adding it up, and he's like, wait, that's like 15 miles. And you're like, Yeah, yeah, that's like you know, one of the workouts. Yeah, so stuff like that. But it's been fun, everyone's really supportive. Um, yeah, and and then like what originally brought me to Steamboat was coaching at the winter sports club, and so like a lot of my friends through that or like over all the parents of kids that I coached and stuff, like they're really aware of what's going on and support me. And yeah, so it's kind of fun. You know, you see people like grocery store or whatever, and they they're like, Oh, what's what race do you have next on the calendar and stuff like that?
SPEAKER_03That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, I always find it interesting, like that it's like this double life almost to where, like, for instance, like you're in shamani crossing the finish line, and there's thousands of people screaming at you, and then two weeks later you're back in you know in the office on a Monday, and it's like it's just two different words. It's like, whoa, this is weird.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No. Well, I know it's funny because like before we started recording how we were joking about like the finance uh bro costume, like and it's it's funny because yeah, like I put on my collared shirt and stuff, but like before and after work, I'm like in I'll be like half naked and running shorts, running around the town, you know. But it's just and then on the weekend I'm either in my running clothes or like sweats and stuff or work clothes, like I don't know. It's just I guess it's it's cool though to be able to have this outlet as well. Um like I love being able to yeah, just take my mind off sport and focus on other things and have goals outside of sport. So it's actually been really valuable, and I think it's good. Like lots of coaches advised me and recommended, like when I was racing World Cup for skiing, like take online classes, like do something. And so um this this job's been great for that as well.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, dude, like you know, we you and I both know this. Like, you know, running and athletics has its place, but it doesn't last forever. And and you know, having you know career and all these other things to do, it's not just great for the mind, but as a long-term financial solution, like I think it it's it's the smartest thing you can do, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, that's that's super true. And that was like yeah, being able to yeah, just plug away at classes while ski racing and stuff like that. I was like, you knew you always know there's there's life after sport, so you gotta be ready for that. Um yeah, I feel I feel like these are pretty good jobs for it too. Like like I'd be a lot harder to train if I was like in high school, I was mowing lawns between workouts and you just be gassed. Or at least here I'm like, Yeah, you can like sit in a chair and I don't know, like massage my foot on a little ball if I need to, or whatever.
SPEAKER_03Uh do you get do you are you are you tired at all after because like you know, like after work you roll obviously, you hit a workout, go to work. Are you tired? At all when you get into that second session of the day? Like the are you are you are you just like a sip of coffee to wake yourself up, or are you is it pretty easy for you to just get out the door?
SPEAKER_01Um it's pretty easy. Like I feel almost like the morning workout kind of gets me energized for the whole day. Um maybe I would struggle if I get home and like sit down, that kind of thing. But usually I'm like the I don't know, obligations or whatever are tight enough that like I don't even have a second to think about it. So I just jump into that workout after work and then um then like yeah, you're good after like five minutes of gone for it. Um maybe the only thing that I found that just bothered me even when I wasn't working really is afternoon workouts because they're like kind of cutting in close to dinner. I'll get like weird like blood sugar feelings sometimes where I just like need like I don't know, like bag of fruit snacks or something just to like get through. But I'll be like my hands will be tingling or something weird like that.
SPEAKER_03That I know that feeling.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's the worst actually. Like that's that kills me more than being tired. Uh yeah. But yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Sweet. Well, dude, I don't want to take up too much of your time. I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate the conversation. Um, yeah, I can't wait till we do this again. And uh wish you the best of luck in in Snowdonia, and then it's gonna be fun to follow the rest of the season, too. For you know, go for the seventh Mount Marathon and uh continue to make history there.
SPEAKER_01Hey, well, thanks a lot. Yeah, hopefully I got a fun story for for you after Snowdonia.
Wrap-Up And Listener Discounts
SPEAKER_03Oh, I'm pumped, dude. I'm pumped. Listen, we'll be in touch. Uh have a great rest of your day. What'd you guys think? Oh man, always a fun episode, always fun uh catching up with David. Uh big fan of his. Guys, before we uh roll into some of the post-show stuff, just remember CDUS USA uh is the presenting sponsor of the show. Head on over to CDUS.us and use code SteepStuff. That's gonna get you 20% off your cart. Uh definitely want to throw that to you guys as the listeners for uh go get yourself some discount on uh or a discount on some socks and some insoles. Good stuff in there. Um yeah, want to thank David so much. You guys can find him on Instagram, it's gonna be linked in the show notes at Grandmaster Norris. Uh probably one of the best uh handles in the sport. I kind of like that one. Grandmaster Norris. Yeah. Um, yeah, lots of good stuff coming on the horizon. Appreciate you guys for tuning in. Thanks so much.
