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Zegama-Aizkorri Race Companion
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Zegama-Aizkorri is the race that turns a mountain into a stadium. One steep Basque climb packed with cowbells, one technical day where mud can rewrite the script, and a start list so deep that a “safe” prediction still feels risky. I sit down in person with Steve Taylor to build a true Zegama race companion: equal parts course preview, culture primer, and athlete scouting report for anyone following the Golden Trail World Series.
We start with what makes Zegama different. Steve shares firsthand context on the Basque Country, why the region’s identity shows up so strongly on race day, and how traditions like the Basque beret and the winner’s axe turn a finish line into something unforgettable. From there we get tactical: how pacing works on a course with sustained climbing, how the descents punish mistakes, and why weather forecasts matter as much as fitness when the trails go slick.
Then we dig into the contenders and call our shots. On the men’s side, we talk Kilian Jornet’s bid for another win, Elhousine Elazzaoui’s chances to disrupt the storyline, and why names like Davide Magnini and Manu Merillas can thrive when conditions get messy. On the women’s side, we weigh the hype around Tove Alexanderson against the local firepower of Sarah Alonso, plus consistent threats like Judith Wyder and tough, technical runners like Fabiola Conti. We also shout out the American athletes in the mix, including Taylor Stack, Nicholas Turco, and Sidney Peterson.
If you’re watching Zegama-Aizkorri live or catching the replay, this conversation gives you the context to understand every surge and every collapse. Subscribe, share this with a trail running friend, and leave a review with your podium picks so we can compare notes after the dust and mud settle.
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Welcome And Why Zegama Matters
SPEAKER_03What's up guys? Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. I'm your host, James L'Oreal, and today I am so excited to bring you a Zagama race preview episode, race companion. I am joined by good friend, frequent training partner, and trailrunner in the space, Mr. Steve Taylor, to talk all about Zagama. Steve's actually spent some time in the Bass Country and was able to lend some really good commentary and information, not just about the different athletes in the sport, but about the culture and what to expect from a race like this. And yeah, just some really, really good stuff there. So lots of exciting stuff to talk about too. We got into Killian's potential 12th win. Is Tovey Alexanderson the overall potential favorite for this race, or will Sarah Alonzo win her second in a row? We really got deep into the fields. And yeah, we gave our predictions and uh just what we thought. Lots of good stuff there on the American side. Americans, Nicholas Turko, Taylor Stack, and Cindy Peterson are over there to compete. So we sent a good little contingent over there. It's gonna be fun to see them uh all throw down at Zagama. Should be should be fun to follow along for uh our North American audience. So I hope you guys enjoyed this one. Uh Steve Zahoot. Uh the guy should be a voice actor. He brings uh all kinds of good commentary and information to the to the episode, and uh, I think you guys will get a kick out of it. So without further ado, uh the Zagama race preview, race companion, whatever you want to call it, with Mr. Steve Taylor.
unknownHey!
SPEAKER_00This is the game!
SPEAKER_03Steve Taylor, welcome to the Steve Stuff Podcast.
SPEAKER_01What's up, buddy? Nothing much. Thank you so much for having me. I am excited to be here.
SPEAKER_03Dude, I'm so excited to chat Zagamo with you. This is the first like in-person podcast I've done in like in a while. You asked me who I had before. I was trying to remember. It was uh it was Dan Vega, actually. Oh, no way. Okay, I fucking Dan Vega. He dude he brought the flu, and that's why I haven't. Yeah, he got me sick, and that's why I never didn't. Never again. Not once, not never. Never. I he brought something with him, and I got so sick. It was like two Januaries ago. That's how long it's been. So that's been a minute. I'm intimidated by this. This uh this is this is kind of crazy. It's not just because I'm six inches taller than you. I think you're taller than that, dude.
SPEAKER_01You're looking I I will give you a generous three buffer right there.
SPEAKER_03How uh yeah, dude, what do you welcome to the house, dude? Welcome to the house. Do you get the the light Joe Rogan experience? We we do have a sauna.
SPEAKER_01I mean, we can we can do the what what's the Cam Hanes lift uh sauna and hike or ruck or whatever he does. We can do that, but it's just what a cryo session right there. Yeah, yeah. Well come out. It's the poor man's sauna. Come out, two turkey based or nipples, it'll be great.
From Tennis To Trail Racing
SPEAKER_03So, dude, how's it uh how's it kicking for you? For the audience who doesn't know who Steve Taylor is, which is everybody.
SPEAKER_01Introduce yourself to uh yeah, my name is Steve Taylor. I originally from Baltimore, but moved out to Colorado back in 2018. Um I was formerly a uh a high-level tennis player, got was fortunate enough to play on my college team at got the trail running bug uh immediately out of college, um, more as a way to kind of keep myself active, but also prevent myself from getting into the continuous college lifestyle that a lot of early to mid-20-year-olds do. I I it I wasn't successful for a long time, and then eventually I found my way taking running more, running more and more seriously as I moved out to Colorado. Um, got really into doing some racing. Um, I would say for most people, if you've run into me, it's usually at a regional race. I do a lot of Colorado-based events, but I've I've been fortunate enough to go down and do some races down in Arizona. Um, run, I unfortunately had to drop out of TDS, but I've gotten the opportunity to run out at a UTMB course in France. And just uh I uh I like to think of myself as a pretty competitive guy on the regional scene, but just really, really plugged in and I just love running and love being outdoors. Um just there's so much to uh adventure into conversationally there. But I think for the most part, that's where where most people would if you know me, it's because you've run into me on trail or because you heard me talking too loudly at a restaurant or walking around downtown Colorado Springs.
SPEAKER_03And you're also, I mean, you could be mistaken for a voice actor, dude. You have a better podcast voice impressive.
SPEAKER_01All those hard years of staying up until three in the morning, doing putting in my hours to earn this voice. You know, I think what I've got a few friends in college who'd argue that I was wasting my time, but you we can see I've really fallen into the career path for me. Dude, I should have had you do my intro.
SPEAKER_00This is the steep stuff on.
SPEAKER_03Look, I'm not gonna take away Fight Night from you, Bruce. Right. Bruce Buffer does a good job. You know, dude, I got people were excited about that, dude. I I think more so less less by the fact that it was Bruce Buffer for the new intro, and more so by the fact that it was shorter.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think I've texted you that a few times. I was like, I think everything's great about the podcast, except for you could cut out about a minute, a minute's worth of time right there. Solid minute. You know what? I'm not gonna argue about the pro the end product too much because I still have ended up listening to, I don't know, probably 15 of your podcasts in the last three months alone, just on different either short runs with my dogs, because you the nice thing is you've got some bite-sized ones that are really digestible, and then you've got some longer format ones. So kind of mix and match, but you know, I'm not uh I'm not gonna complain too much because you also get you you do get a pretty official uh official opening to your podcast, and you get some inspiration porn music as well. It's true. It's either you were either about to do something really hard or you're about to sell me a Ford F-150.
SPEAKER_03I can't tell. Dude, I love that. I love that. That's uh yeah, it's the the the the ending music is is unique.
SPEAKER_01No, it's good stuff, and it gets me primed for about for what everyone's about to listen to. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_03Fair enough. Well, dude, thank you for coming. I'm super excited. I know we're five minutes into this already. Uh the audience is probably like, what are these guys doing? We're here to talk about Zagama. Um, before we get into Zagama, which it's kind of crazy, we're already in Zagama weekend. I feel like we, you know, had a few runs over the winter and and you know, time just goes by so fast, you know, and it's here we are. We're already in mid-May and you know, getting ready for the season. It's kind of like bananas.
Jemez 50K Recap And Lessons
SPEAKER_01I know. I mean, it we were fortunate here. I mean, fortunate in the sense that it took so long for us to get some snow and some rain. We got some good moisture last week, but because of that, in my head, it kind of prolonged like we're still in early spring or late winter, and we're very much out of that time frame. We the racing season is really upon us, and especially with the shorter distance Golden Trail series races that are taking place in the high alpine on some really rugged, cool courses. The time is now. Yeah. Yeah. Before we get into it, I know you raced last weekend, dude. Yeah. Give me, give me a little uh how was New Mexico? What did you think? I I have always been a fan of New Mexico. I've got some good friends that live down in the area. I my family went on a vacation that was kind of paired with my dad's work, uh work trip for him. So we spent some time in Taos and uh in Santa Fe when I was much younger. And I just always had good memories of the place. But I've got a good friend who lives uh just down the I-25 corridor in Las Vegas, New Mexico, I i.e. the real Vegas, as I call it. The real Vegas. Everyone who's in Nevada is they're living a false dream or a nightmare or fever dream, whatever you want to call it. But Las Vegas is the truth. Um and I got I was fortunate, got to stay with him before, and uh just got to really enjoy some beautiful mountains out in Los Alamos, um, kind of in the greater Santa Fe, Los Alamos area. Um, if you want, I can go a little bit more into that right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, however much you want to get into it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I mean it was a great race. I was uh running the Jemez Mountain Trail Runs 50K. Um wanted to give the 50 mile distance its proper due, and I gotten the opportunity to kind of check out the area a little bit and run still a really great run grassroots organization race down there. Uh and the 50K was I I can't say enough good things about it. My day didn't go the way that I had hoped. Uh it was, I think, uh a mix of a few different things, and I'm not about to spew off every uh every excuse in the books. I I think I was just riding the fine line of writing, racing the perfect race and then pushing a little too hard on the most prominent climb of the day. For anyone who doesn't know, there's the race um for the 50k has some rolling terrain for about the first three miles, and then it's got a 10-mile, 3,000-foot climb. So very much in that six to seven percent grade average over that time over that time period. So you just got to lock into a really good uh sustainable effort for that time. Um, just as a a little anecdote, uh, there was a guy that was kind of blocking a train of us and throwing elbows and really. Oh, yeah. He we there was a group of us at the finish line that were talking about like, so did the guy like try and uh deck you out of the way? And I was like, he didn't deck me. He's like, oh yeah, he threw an elbow and almost caught me in the nose. So there was there's someone who's taking it real seriously out there, and unfortunately that happens at races every now and again. But uh it was I just wasn't prepared for a race that one is typically such a a low uh a low volume in terms of there, it's very locally based. You're gonna see 60, 70% of the runners are New Mexico-based runners, or just or southern Colorado, even. But vast majority are from Los Alamos, Santa Fe area, and the really great community, really great uh race organizers. So I just wasn't expecting to have like an instance like that. Finally got around him, um, had a nice little downhill for section up to mile 15, and then the most prominent climb of the day, you get about a thousand to eleven hundred feet in one mile, and I was just pushing a little too hard to keep up with one of my buddies. Um, we were sitting in the back half of the top 10 and just kind of blew up my legs a little bit, and a lot of things kind of domino affected from there. But at the end of the day, not not any major injuries. Had a really wonderful time in some gorgeous scenery out there. I cannot recommend this race enough. Uh, and on top of that, I think it people are looking for races that are going to be affordable but also give you great bang for your buck in terms of entertainment value, enjoyment, and challenge. Um, everyone I talked to who said that they continued on from that point, that there was supposed to be a long 10-mile descent with that rev roughly the same 3,000 feet. And everyone was expecting it to be nice and smooth, but apparently it was just dicey footing the entire way down. People were running about a minute slower per mile per mile than they were expecting. So finishing times were about anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes slower than most people's expectations, and what I kind of drew up on timing charts for myself and for a few of my friends. So I think there were a lot of things that were sort of um unexpected, but I would I would happily go back to that race, you know, any day. If you gave me another month to prepare, I would love to go back. Unfinished business, dude.
Sponsor Break Cetus Socks
SPEAKER_03You gotta do it. Let's do next. I'll go do the 15 mile. Interrupting this episode to talk to you guys about CetaSocks, the official partner of the Steep Stuff podcast. How much do you guys love your feet? I mean, I do. I love my feet. I really care about my feet. But I also care about your feet. But not in that way. Get your mind out of the gutter. CetaSocks, keeping your feet stable, protected, and in control since 1975. Bringing you guys an anatomical fit and superior hybrid composition materials. Cetus incorporates odor control, ankle support, and anti-slip grip strips into some of my favorite models. Check out the Run Anatomic Comfort and the Run Anatomic, two of my favorites, online at CDUS.us. C this is the official foot care partner of UTMB in Western States. CDUS, your foot company.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. Dude, the 15 mile was pretty legit as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've heard uh I've heard good things, man. I mean, this year, got it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, Jason Slarb went, uh Debo went. Debo was there. I I I'm hoping Debo's feeling better. I um I saw him cross the finish line. I think he was seventh or eighth, somewhere in that neighborhood. And um, I've chatted with him once or twice before. He he does not know me, but we are we we have crossed paths and had friendly conversations. So I was gonna go see.
SPEAKER_03How could you forget that voice?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I mean, how could you forget this face? No, but he uh he he walk walked through the finish line and I was like, oh, that's kind of uncharacteristic for him. I know he's training hard for hard rock right now. Immediately took himself to the med tent. Um, and then apparently, um, based on what I heard from his podcast the other day, he went to the hospital after that. So I was uh I was kind of I unaware of how hard he had uh pushed himself in that one because I had heard some reports of people that I was running with in the 50k kind of linked up with him and Schlarb, and they were working together to take down the young guns on the course. Dude, Schlarb's an angeless wonder. Yeah, oh man, he and he complimented how your big guns over there, buddy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for I I think I don't think I've ever told the story on the podcast. I was at a uh athlete summit with him, I think it was for Ultimate Direction, like three or four years ago. We were sitting in the van. Yeah, and he like looks over to me, he like looks at my bicep, and he squeezes my arm and he goes juicy.
SPEAKER_01I think that's the the accurate adjective for what you are. You see, I was thinking about getting you a pair of sweatpants too.
Zegama Weekend And The Hype
SPEAKER_03I mean it is kind of funny, like I don't look like a runner at all. I'm built like a ninja turtle. So like and it doesn't help me that I'm about to be shredder. I'm about two inches taller than the average Asian woman, so it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't help at all. So yeah, I don't know. Don't I really look like a runner at all, but hey, we can hey you prove people wrong every day. Um all right, so the reason the reason we're here, let's get out of business. Let's talk about Zagama after after 15 minutes. Um dude, I am so excited. I can't believe it's Zagama week. I'm so excited to preview this up to preview this episode, preview this race. Uh just uh one of the reasons why I did want to have you on and talk about it is I know you've spent time in the area. Yeah, you've got to immerse yourself. And I think obviously the competitiveness of this course and and this race year over year is super important and something to talk about as we'll get into the athletes, but I think the cultural aspect is equally as interesting as well, and just how much history this race brings and just how what what it what it means to the community. Maybe if you could like kind of help paint that picture of like what the community is like, what the area is like.
Basque Country Culture And Identity
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. So uh what James is alluding to is that I was uh fortunate in college to study abroad in Spain, not unique to uh to me, uh not unlike so many other people, but I spent time in this really small town just uh just east of uh or southeast of Madrid, just west of the Portugal border. But then we spent several weeks up in the north of Spain making our way from the Picos de Europa in a really small town called Sota de Sahambre, and then we slowly worked our way through making kind of stopping off at a lot of the major cities in the north of Spain and uh right next to the France Andorra border as well. So we went to Bilbao. Um we stopped off in this town that I'll revisit in a second called Mundaca. Um, if anyone knows, it's a uh formerly a world-famous surfing location, used to have a World Surfing League event there because it has um one of the best left-breaking waves in the world. Um, and then made our way over to San Sebastian, um, just incredibly beautiful country, but it is uniquely its own culture. Uh the in Spain, you have a lot of mixing of identities, a lot of mixing of cultures. If you go to any place where there's um any place with a historic value, you can find castles kind of located around, and you'll see that that based on the era of the occupation of different religions and groups, that there will be arc different architectural styles that are kind of built upon each other. So you can see from when uh it was more of a Muslim uh uh influence, and then when there was a Christian influence, and so on and so forth, you can just really see the layers of these different groups. But specifically, there are not only are were there historical mixings of these cultures, there are now currently three main languages and uh cultural identities that kind of live in tandem all throughout Spain. We've got very traditional Spain, um uh that you, if you're thinking of any city that is traditionally Spanish, most people within the country will say Madrid is like the most Spanish country or city that you can go visit. I I have opinions on that myself, but uh that that is what they believe. Over in Barcelona, they've got uh very different, um, they've got a very different culture over there. I feel like a ding-dong because I cannot remember the name of the uh uh Catalan. Um the the language and the culture is very Catalan or Catalanes, uh, I hope that's where Killian's from, right? That is where Killian is from. So hopefully if uh I I don't know if he listens, so hopefully I am doing him justice and doing everything justice here. But the third and uh inarguably the oldest culture is the Bass culture, which kind of takes up this region of central North Spain over to the border of France. Um so going over to the eastern side to just uh just uh west of Andalusia, I believe, or Galicia, one of the two. Um and it is a culture that is as old as I believe as uh some ancient Germanic cultures. Their language is has some elements of Spanish to it, but it is largely influenced from areas that are not endemic to it's not a Latin-based language. So you'll hear people who are fluent in Spanish there, um, some that are fluent in English, but the it is still a region where largely Basque is being spoken. Um I mean, you will you can speak Spanish with everyone there as well, but Basque is still the one of the native tongues of that area, and people have a lot of pride of for being from that area because for a long time they were trying to get pushed out, and uh they've they've just remained so uh steadfast in that area, and it's really its own, its own place. I mean, I don't think you're gonna find any mountains that are anything like it there. It is whereas so much of central and south uh southwestern Spain can be very arid in uh what's called the Days or the High Desert, very similar to what we are here, but with like kind of less uh grasslandy type areas. Um, this is like a very mountainous, very wet. Uh I I believe the statistic is they get 150 to 170 days of rain a year um in the mountains surrounding Zagama, but it is very much its own beast. The whole north of Spain is its own beast. Wow.
SPEAKER_03Dude, you painted a really good picture.
SPEAKER_01I heard they have great cheesecake too. They do. I'm sorry, I just wasn't ready for cheesecake after all of that. And grizzly bears. Yeah, I I never experienced any grizzly bears up there and I spent some. Brown bears, I should say, not before. I was like, I I believe that to be true. They have a lot of advertising around that, but I never saw one myself while I was out in the mountains there. I mean, I uh there's only two things I connect with.
SPEAKER_03Food and bears.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I look, I'm if you want some of the best food you've ever had, San Sebastian is like continuously rated as one of the best food cities in the world. Is it really? Yeah, I believe it's typically in the top 10 or 15 in the world for like culinary cities. They have the um instead of tapas, they call them pinchos, uh, p-i-t-x-o-s for anyone who is wondering how to spell that. Um, and there's a big culture, especially in San Sebastian, where starting uh shortly after siesta, people just bar hop and they'll get a drink and they'll get a pincho um with their uh with their drink, and then they'll just go to the next one and get a pincho. But every place is known for having phenomenally fresh seafood and really good, just really good food selection with uh every pincho that they hand out. And you can obviously get full dishes, but that there's just a really big culture around that as well. So interesting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, so with the pride of the area, I feel like it just makes sense for some sort of, you know, endurance event, right? For something like Zagama to pop up, I guess, in back in 2002. It's interesting. When I was doing some research into the history of this race, obviously there's a lot of historical prowess with the, I guess you could say with the course and with the people that create it, but the why. It was hard for me to understand and figure out the why. And I think that has a lot to do with it, is just a very proud area with some very interesting individuals. You know, the original course was 35k, and then they turned it into a marathon, which is Do you remember the year that they switched that?
SPEAKER_01Uh couldn't find it. I know. I was because I saw that information as well, and I was trying to figure out when they increased the length of the course, but it is also amongst other things that we'll talk about with the race, there's a lot of history, not only with the race. Obviously, this is its 25th year, long time running for such a high caliber event as well. Um I think that there I I'd love to see what the original course looked like because as it stands, I think it's one of the most logical routes that you're gonna see on the Golden Trail World Series as it stands today. And I I think everyone can kind of speak to the aesthetic value of having a logical loop or having a point-to-point that just uh you get to experience the full range of the area that you're in. And I think this region deserves nothing less than that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. No, there's no doubt about it. It's definitely uh, I think it's a very aesthetic loop. I don't know, man. I feel like contrived courses are a very uniquely American thing.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I why is that? I don't know why. I don't know, but I will tell a story of one of the better races I've uh been a part of. I and I mean this from the standpoint of the organization was phenomenal. The volunteers were great. And I also ended up having a pretty great race out there, and I was happy with it. But um there was a Hundred Mile, which unfortunately no longer exists because it was affected by uh Hurricane Hugo, and the community was in the westernmost portion of Virginia. It was called the Cloud Splitter 100.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, Kurt uh oh gosh, what's it? Kurt uh not Kurt, I'm blanking on his name. But one of the Speed Goat. Uh what's Oh uh missed Kurt Metzger. Yeah, that's a comedian. Right Ryan Metzler. Uh no, Ryan uh I am blanking on his name, and this is this is one so we call ourselves armchair professionals. Yeah, I don't know. No, but regardless, uh he's run that the speed goat has run that race. There's a few big names that have come through and run that race, but it is a hundred miler with about 20 that had 21 to 22,000 feet of the city. I should notice.
SPEAKER_03I can't look it up though because my phone's recording us.
SPEAKER_01Uh and it was three out and backs. Carl Melter. Carl. Carl Melters.
SPEAKER_00Jesus. Oh my God. That was the door there.
SPEAKER_01I can leave whenever you need me to. But um, it was three out and backs up to the same high point, which was at like 5,500 feet, and you'd go down to about a thousand feet, and you just do that same out and back three times, and then they had a little lollipop loop that you did twice, and then you would go back the same way up to the high point and then drop back down to the finish. It's the most contrived course I've ever been on. That being said, it was one of the most enjoyable races I've ever done. I mean, I think I'm a little biased. I ended up running a very good race, and I uh, but I also got humbled by Mika Thews shortly before she had uh a historically good year at Cocodona 250. Or yeah, it was the year before Kokodona 250 that she came in second at, I believe.
Course Personality And Crowd Energy
SPEAKER_03Damn, I would ask you about Cocodona, but at the risk of going off into an entirely different time for another podcast another time. Um, back to Zagama. Yeah. This course is amazing. I mean, it's gonna climb for 16k up to Spirit of Santo. And dude, Spirit Asantou. What do you think about that little? It's a 180-meter section. Uh, I think it's 180-meter climb, average grade of 30% for all these people. This is what I want to create in America at like Pike's Peak. Like, we need a section with like a thousand or like give me a hundred, give me a hundred people just like on the side, just like cheering with cowbells and like absolutely all involved, you know.
SPEAKER_01I think I think Pikes Peak is a great event to have some an atmosphere like that. But I whenever I tell people about the electricity that exists in European or you know, international races, because they can get different types of permitting. And I'm not here to complain about the American permitting system. I I do believe that we're there are parts of the country that are trying to do a good job about protecting our wild spaces. Uh, but there is just no environment that matches that. There like you said, there's hundreds of people lining the trail, if not thousands, I would imagine hundreds, but but it's just people yelling at you. It feels like the closest thing that uh the uh that trail running can get to the Tour de France in terms of people are touching you as you're going by, people are trying to actively raise your spirits. And I think this is what uh ultimately gets someone addicted to this sport.
The Beret The Axe And Tradition
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, dude. It's just nothing better than it. Like I feel like this is uh Zagama is to me just like the kickoff of the summer trail running season, you know. Um it's always, you know, and and sometime, and especially it's like very springish, especially on a wet year. It's rainy, it's muddy, it's disgusting. I mean, even dry years are are still pretty gnarly. You know, the course itself is gnarly in its own right. Um I wanna I want to pivot a little bit. I want to ask you about the Basque Beret. Okay. How do you pronounce this word? Let me see. It starts with the T.
SPEAKER_01Where's this at? Uh oh yeah. I I would imagine, and I'm sure someone will be complaining. I would say Chapel. How did you get that from oh my god? Because the the T X is similar to a C H. Okay. Um, and that's if you're to uh when I was describing Pinchos earlier, it's spelled very similarly. So uh I would imagine again, someone scream at me online, find me on Instagram. You can tell me how poorly I pronounced it, but I it would sound uh to me it would be Cheppez or uh Chip Yeah, Chippez.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Cheppez. Okay, all right. So that is the Basque Beret.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There's photos of Killian with it all over the place when he obviously when he was so when you win this race, you get a beret, which is pretty dope, and you get an axe. Yeah two of the coolest things I've ever seen. You know? Um which I think are kind of neat.
SPEAKER_01Oh, sorry to cut you off, but I think that's the uh, you know, Americans have the belt buckle for doing a hundred mile or and that obviously has its own history ingrained in Western states. But I think places that have traditions like this and they're sharing part of their culture, again, even if it's only going to the winner, people are seeing that. And it's just cool that they're trying to share a part of their culture with someone else, even if it happens to be the same person who's won it 11 times. What do you think about killing going back to share? I think it is it shows how much he cares about this race. I think it also shows that he is obviously working to be faster. And uh and I I know he put Western states on his on his grid, and he can he's one of those few uh at the risk of sounding uh like everyone else who said it. He's a genetic freak. The guy is one of the only people who can simultaneously train for hard rock, but then also go out and throw down some of the fastest times out of Sierras and all at uh a Zagama and be competitive in everything that he does. But I I think it shows that he's giving respect to a race and it shows that he loves it truly.
Men’s Field Champions And Matchups
SPEAKER_03It is interesting to have him back. I mean, it's interesting and exciting to have him back on a 12th victory. I mean, a 12th victory here for him. I mean, I I I'm not sure it like means a ton other than the fact that like it's you know, because at that point in time, with all that all you know, with the course record, with all this greatness with winning, it's like uh, you know, how does that feel to someone after all that time? I've always wondered, you know, it's an interesting, interesting thought process. Uh the men's, I think the men's field is interesting too, man. I think it's super interesting, yeah. Four champions. Yeah. You know, Remy, who's won it in 2018. You have Killian back who's won it 11 times, obviously, most recently in 24. Manu. Manu. Manu is one of the best downhillers on planet Earth.
SPEAKER_01One of the best technical runners in general in the world.
SPEAKER_03I mean, he's got a faster time than El Husin. I mean, I have to look at uh Subhub did a great job on their Subhub headlines of putting like what year was a wet year versus a dry year. Yeah. Um, but El Husine won on a dry year, and Manu also won on a dry year. And Manu's was a little bit, a little bit faster than El Husine.
SPEAKER_01So my thought with El Hussein, though, is that he is he's more well-rounded. He's very well-rounded, but he is always fighting for a win and less so about a time. Yeah, he's he's a gamer and he knows how to win. So I when I see that he hasn't doesn't have the fastest time, that's not something that really sticks out as a red or yellow flag to me. I think he is doing not just enough to win, but he sees the effort that he needs to put in and he's not wasting resources elsewhere. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It is exciting to have Remy back as well. He hasn't captured the Magic since 2018. It's been an eight-year layoff. So that's interesting to me, especially given the success that he had a few years ago. I think he's still kind of, you know, he did drop from a UTMB race a few weeks ago. I can't remember the specific race. Um, but yeah, I mean, we'll see.
SPEAKER_01I mean, and inarguably at the moment, the best uphill runner in the field. Oh, yeah. Um, and in the world, generally speaking. Uh, but he is the question is, will he be able to run uh as well as he does on the uphill on the downhill? You know, and or is he going to be able to at least match the field in that regard? I don't know. We've got some really experienced and well-rounded downhill runners, especially technical runners. And I'm not saying Remy is any slouch in that regard, but when you've got people like Manu Marias, that guy is an absolute crusher on anything downhill, as well as, I mean, you can't overlook Killian. You just absolutely cannot. And then Elozine doesn't seem uh phased by anything, but I also don't want to overlook the uh the small American contingency we have out there.
SPEAKER_03Shout out to Taylor Stack, yeah, our great American hope, along with Nicholas Turko as well. Yeah. Uh and Sidney Peterson. I believe of the elite women, it's just Sidney Peterson. I do believe Lauren Gregory is a scratch, unfortunately. I saw that earlier today. I was really bummed about that. I know.
SPEAKER_01I was trying to see whether she had put out any information as to why, but she has also been racing a lot lately. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I almost wish, you know, she would have held off on Gorge and went for you know Zagama as well, but whatever. You know, dude, she went that was an epic race that she put on against Taylor Tuttle. I was like, that was oh my god, like that was fireworks.
SPEAKER_01I'm loving the fact that women's races are getting their due right now. And way more interesting as of late. They have been the most interesting fields we have seen this year and a lot of last year. I mean, I think everyone can say that the women's fields have been competitive, but I think now that there's more attention being put on it, we can really focus on how amazing these women are. And it's been really exciting to get to watch that. Oftentimes I catch myself going, okay, well, the men's race is going on, but tell me what is what the hell is going on back here. I want to see the moves that are being made. They're gonna, they're cleaning the clocks of half of the men's, uh half the men's elite's fields right now. So it's just been really fun to see how electric that side of the sport has been.
SPEAKER_03I totally agree. This in you know, dude, this is a very interesting women's race. Like there's a lot of people, I mean, with Tovey, yeah, you know, a newly minted Solomon runner. And given some of the you know, the performances that she's had, specifically Short Trail at Worlds, a lot of people think she's gonna walk away with this.
SPEAKER_01I know, and I I mean, I gotta just say former teammate Tove Alexanderson, she doesn't know me, but let's look, Icebug was equally sad when I left their roster, and then salt on the wound, Tove next. No, I all jokes aside, um, she is truly one of a kind. I think if there's anyone that is gonna stand out as a favorite on the women's side, that uh is I I you can tell me, I do not believe she has run Zagama in the past. I I I had checked and I just could not remember. But if anyone's gonna come come sight unseen and throw down, she's the person to do it.
SPEAKER_03Do you do you think that's disrespectful though to like our like Sarah Alonso, who's the 2025 champion?
SPEAKER_01No, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_03And I it's her, it's bash she's Basque, dude. It's her, it's her turf.
SPEAKER_01I my thinking is that obviously the all of the women that we're gonna be talking about today, they are absolute crushers. And I do also believe that the Spanish, uh, the Spanish contingency of women have the upper hand here. This this race really does seem to favor the locals or the people who have been able to get eyes on the course, which is why I don't think that this race is going to be as clear-cut as Tove running away with it. Yeah, I think that if I have not taken the time to take a look at Tove's Instagram, I meant to do that earlier today to see if she's been out there projecting the course. If she's been doing that like she did out at Confranc, it's a different thing. It could be it could be very different because she is someone who is very meticulous about her prep for races. And that's the only way I see her gaining the advantage, a clear advantage over the rest of the field. I think uh Sarah Alonso and Malinosa are gonna be two names that I really want people to keep an eye out on to uh really push in areas if Tove is not recognizing how to meter her effort during the day. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think that's an actually you make a very good point there. Tovey beat Tove kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, versus uh, you know, it depends. I mean, Sarah races very aggressively. Yeah. A lot of athlete, you know, I mean, most Europeans are more notorious for that, I guess you could say, going off the front very quickly. We're gonna find out. I I uh back to the men's side. Uh I I brought up our great American hope in Taylor Stack and Nicholas Turko. Nicholas is a friend of the pod. Nicholas performs very well in some of the longer, longer short trail stuff, if that makes sense. Kind of the the marathon distances, your your broken arrow, 46Ks, things like that. Um, that's a name. Don't be surprised if he's in the mix. And I do think Taylor Stack, um I if Taylor Stack can pick off where he left off from last year, I I see no I see no issues. I see an easy top 10 for Taylor Stack, uh, potentially top five. I that's that's a lot to say, but man, I Taylor Stack, I believe in a lot.
SPEAKER_01I I really do believe in the truth that is Taylor Stack right now. I think he's only gonna continue to get better, better as long as nothing's hampering his progression. So I I think I've got a very similar prediction for him, and obviously, again, we'll get to that when the time comes.
SPEAKER_03I haven't even made my top five yet.
SPEAKER_01I mean I'm slacking, dude. I you know it's uh I someone's probably gonna roast me for this, but I haven't played uh free trail fantasy in a very long time. But I do Robert's gonna be so upset with you. I ow. Shout out Robert Prosser. Uh if it if anyone needs to learn how to make some informed decisions, you can listen to Rob Runs Round as well, uh, friend of the pod over here. But uh yeah, I haven't played Free Trail Fantasy in probably a year and a half at this point, but that does not stop me from going and looking at all of the resources pre-race for, I don't know, about three quarters of the season that they utilize.
Course Records Weather And Pace Reality
SPEAKER_03Dude, I mean it's a great, I have to say, like, at least for doing conversations like this. I mean, I have it up right now on my laptop. I'm looking at it. Like it's it's just so good for breaking down, especially the the insider information that they're able to get of like it just saves me so much time of having to text Lauren Gregory and be like, hey, are you gonna be at Zagama? When like tell me why they're yeah, exactly. And they're already it's already done for me. So yeah, it makes my life a little like significantly easier for these conversations. Uh we should probably talk about the course records. I think that's something probably very important to chat about. Um, Killian Journey, course record holder, 2022. He's at the record, 33640. Uh, and then Nikki Brinkman, who I've heard, and she is on the start list for Broken Arrow this year at the 23k. She will be making a return to trail from what I've seen.
SPEAKER_01So was there was she injured for quite some time? Yeah, okay. I figured that was likely the case, and I remember something about that. So I my apologies for not staying up to date on her health, and I am excited to see her return to the sports. So if that's true, that's gonna be an electric race at uh at Broken Arrow.
SPEAKER_03Big deal. Um, and yes, so she's a course record holder again, also from 2022, 41643. That is stealth time, dude.
SPEAKER_01Only only sub 420 on the course for the women's side.
SPEAKER_03So maybe while we're on that topic, uh you had said this to me before we even started recording about the possibility of a woman running under four hours this year. Or sorry, under yeah, under four hours this year. Do you think that would that would go down?
SPEAKER_01I with this field, there is a chance. Um the I think in terms of anyone being able to do that, from a physiological standpoint, I think Tovey Alexanderson is potentially the best chance someone has to do something like that. Now, under four hours, I think that might be a little heavy-handed. I would say that's not happening.
SPEAKER_03I would say 415 is probably the the the record.
SPEAKER_01If the weather is gonna hold off, which will we can talk about weather, I was looking at the reports for this. I don't think with the weather as it is, I don't think that we're gonna see any records broken this year. It's looking like at the moment, based on what I saw, mid-40s, which is great temperature, but there's at least a 60% chance of rain throughout the day. Potentially lower chances of rain for the two days leading into it. But uh that being said, I mean, you can correct me if you saw a different radar report. I look, I'm not taking your word for it. Yeah, no, I'm not a knacky weatherhead out there. Appreciate your due diligence. Yeah, but it's looking like there is gonna be some rain starting around seven, uh six, seven, eight in the morning, um, depending on which reports you're looking at. So I'm thinking there's gonna be some particip precipitation out there. If it ends up being a lot, obviously I think we're gonna see some much slower times and it's gonna be uh end up being a m a battle of attrition out there. But if we uh end up getting treated and things hold off and it's just some light precipitation, I think the weather uh temperature-wise is in a good spot where we could see a time go down. But with the moisture, I don't see I don't see the record going down. This would have to be a dry year with some cool temps.
Dark Horses Americans And Depth
SPEAKER_03It's 336. What did Killian run last year or in 2024? Al Husin ran 343 last year. Killian ran 338 in 2024. Yeah. So he was about two minutes off, or about a minute 30 off of his course record from 2022 in 2024. And was that a Killian? See, Subhub did a great job with this. They make my life so much easier. Uh it was a so he's about a minute 30 off, and it was a wet year in 2024. Yeah. Um, and El Housine, who's got the fourth fastest time, it was a dry year. You know who we're not talking about? Who I find it's very interesting that like it's completely slept on? Davide Magnini.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you mean the first name written down on my list? Is there really I he is for lack of a better term, he's not a dark horse, but he would be my pick to be someone who could really upset a lot of people. I think he has a better opportunity to win than um than probably Manu, in my opinion. I I think so too, and I I might be throwing uh unnecessary shade towards Remy just because he obviously has the Manitou incline speed record. Um and we someone on the American side's got to reclaim that. But I would say Davide Magnini is uh a slightly more round well-rounded runner than Remy. But again, we're talking about world-class athletes who all have the abilities to do something incredible on any given day. But I do think Davide Magnini has the ability to handle uh an adverse situation like the impending moisture exceptionally well. I mean, I think uh I have distinct memories of watching Remy on the the wet year, was that 2024, um, going out and leading the race really hot and and watching watching that live stream. And he was leading so hard, and then I just, you know, unfortunately he didn't close out the day that he wanted to, but I I just know that there's some there are gonna be some good names that can handle hard weather really well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's interesting. Uh there's gonna be so I mean, dude, I'm excited for like some very key matchups. I think I I'm I don't really know how Remy fits into this field because I know Killian Killian likes to sit back a little bit and be within the front mix and then take control of the late race later on. Whereas Remy's very aggressive, he takes it out very hard. Manu is another one who kind of kind of sits back. Uh El Husin kind of reads the room very well. Yeah. Uh he's a chameleon. I don't know, man. This is uh the key matchups that I find very interesting. Uh I'm very curious to see where Taylor Stack fits in this field. Yeah. Um, and I know that's home cooking because you know, hey, we're Americans here. We at least that's our great American hope right there. Um wish there was like Christian Allen in this field.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that would be really exciting to see.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know who is a name that we're not really talking about? Antonio Martinez Perez.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a that's another one. I I'd love to hear some more. You probably have more background on him. I've got another uh another name on this list that I'd love to discuss more, but I tell me more about him, please.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so he's a multi multi-time OCC podium finisher. He's on the A6 team, another Spaniard from southern Spain, I think like outside of uh Madrid. And um yeah, he's just very successful, very consistent athlete. Yeah. Um, you know, very dominant in the 50, like in this like 40 to 50k distance. Um, you know, I I don't know. In my opinion, I think he's I think I think he gets a little overlooked when there's other athletes like your Killians and um, you know, your Remis in the field and things like that. But I think he has just as much an opportunity to perform very highly here.
SPEAKER_01And I think you bring up a really good point that we haven't discussed yet. That especially if someone is doing well in that 40 to 50k range, this is the one of the longest courses, if not the longest course on the Golden Trail calendar this year.
SPEAKER_03Correct.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So if someone has that ability to really turn on some high speed in a marathon to 50k effort, they're gonna excel in an environment like this where some uh some of our really great athletes in this sport do focus on that sort of 15 or you know, 12 to 20 mile range. So having a little bit more longevity and durability in the legs for these longer events, that could open up a big window there for someone to have a gr a big uh top five day out here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Another name I was excited for is Shen uh Shang.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Dude, I uh so newly minted Solomon athlete, came over from the north face, more of your your UTMB 100 miles CCC runner. I think he's run Western States as well. I think this is obviously this is a golden trail race, Solomon race, right? So they want their athletes there. It makes makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I I mean I'm very excited to see him mix it up in a in a in a race like this. I'm always happy to see more of the Asian contingency come out and really show us what the heck is going on over there. Because there is no doubt in my mind that we still haven't seen everything that the all of the Asian athletes uh have to offer. They are, I think, some of the most underrated or in a lot of cases, since we live in uh a very westernized view of the sport, Europe to America. We often overlook these South American and these Asian athletes that are crushers. Yeah, it it you know, they've already started to show how good they are. And I think it's only a matter of time before we're starting to see more people like Shen Ji-Shen really, really show us what uh what we're missing out on over there and what what we can do to start catching up with them because I think we're gonna start seeing them really, really starting to beat out some big names here. Now, obviously he's been focusing on some really long stuff for the last few years and very successfully, we uh we can all add. But I'm really intrigued by him. I think he is probably the biggest toss-up in my mind in terms of di is he going to have a day that's gonna shock the world? And I I don't think he's in my opinion, I do not think he's going to be the one that is going to uh I don't think he's gonna break onto the podium. But could he have a top five day? You know, he he certainly has the work ethic for it.
SPEAKER_03No, 100%. I mean, and just for folks that you know are are interested, I mean, Western States he was eighth in 2024, CCC in 2023, he was second, so just on the podium, fourth at Western States in 23, fourth at CCC in 2022. Like the dude is is a perennial contender. And he's a he's a coop athlete, right? Coop?
SPEAKER_01Jason Coop athlete. Oh, I don't know. I think he is. Um, if I'm remembering correctly, I could be wrong, but I believe he is. And I mean, if that is the case, there's no doubt that he's working with a high-level coach, but Coop is one of those people, he's worked with Katie Scheid, who obviously threw down one of the fastest times on a golden trail series race. And he knows how to modify the training for someone so that they are capable of meeting the demands of the day. So I'm not gonna put it past someone who's got someone in their corner capable of coaching them to success like that.
SPEAKER_03Dude, yeah, it's a really good point. I shout out to Jason Coop. That's a name I haven't heard in a while. Even though he lives right down the street from me. Did he still live here? I thought he moved out to France.
SPEAKER_01Oh, did he? I he may at least he used to. Yeah, I used to see him on the bottom.
SPEAKER_03I'm in my little bubble, dude.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, your little OCC bubble. You forget that I exist five miles up the road. No, I'm just kidding.
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Women’s Field Favorites And Threats
SPEAKER_03Oh God. All right, let's let's talk about the women's contingent. I think there's I mean, I think there's there's probably just as much, if not more, here for the females than than the male field. So we talked about Tovey. We didn't talk about Judith.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yudith is, I have a few uh a few names written down right here that I think are all gonna be really strong contenders. Tovey is obviously the biggest uh question mark, but I think with a guarantee with a almost a guaranteed level of success at the race. But Yudith, Sarah Alonzo, Malinosa, Fabiola Conti, I think these are all really big names that can that can end up on the podium, if not potentially winning. And Yudith is one of those people where she is so consistent, year over year, race after race. You do not want to bet against her. And especially now that she's got one year of Zagama under her belt. Um, she's only, I believe she's only run it one time, correct? Correct. Yeah. And now that she's got the experience of doing it, this strikes me as a course that favors the people who have the knowledge and the experience to run a smart race because we've got uh one long climb and then one big climb, essentially. And if you're not metering your effort effectively throughout that day, and then also understanding that you've got a bunch of terrain that can chew you up and spit you out if uh on the downhill if you're not careful, then I you're at a severe disadvantage. And her having finished so strong uh previously, she was on the podium last year, is that correct? Yep, yeah. She is she is primed to run another great race. I think she is she is in the contention to win this, but if uh if Tove's having a day where I think she's gonna be untouchable, I think she's in heavy contention for second place with that Sarah Alonso, Fabiola Conti, and Malinosa uh content uh team. I think. I've used that word ad nauseum at this point. I cannot, I can't say it anymore. Someone's gonna say they're getting semantic satiation.
SPEAKER_03Sorry, I was researching uh so a name that came up that it you know that used to be a probably a perennial mainstay in the Golden Trail World Series, uh, and she's since kind of done more UTMB races and Skyrunner World Series races, at least uh Elise Ponchette.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um and I was just looking at her her background, and she's done series in all a bunch of times, obviously a bunch of Golden Trail races, uh, but has never done has never done uh Zagama. So interesting contender there. What about Martina Valmasi?
SPEAKER_01I think that's also an I mean again, we're talking That's like your Shin, more or less I we're talking about people that have the capability of ending up in the top 10 no matter what. Uh if and but given the day that they have, they could be top five or podium really easily. And I think Valmasi is one of the same is one and the same in that regard.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. It's uh just looking at her, you know, scrolling through all the way back to 2012, 13. She's another one who's never done Zagama's well. So a lot of newer, newer face, fresh faces to the to the elite field.
SPEAKER_01No, and it's it's good to see that too. It it's always nice to have maybe not the same 10, 15 runners that we get week in, week out at a lot of these Golden Trail series races or having seen uh season over season. So it's nice to have the competition mixing up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. It's very true. It's uh yeah, it's you know, not much to say other than like this is gonna be this is gonna be a good one.
SPEAKER_01What are your what are your thoughts on Anna Terasova? I think that's an interesting addition to this.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01Uh, and I would love to hear what you what you're thinking about her because again, much like a Shen has kind of focused on the longer distance stuff as well and been very successful. She she was what third at CCC last year? I believe so, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Third at CCC, she won the Lavareto 80K. Uh she's a, if I remember correctly, I believe 12th at OCC back in what is it, 24? And then uh, so she's a Nord athlete as well. I don't know. This is a we this is a unique race, right? It's longer. So it's anybody's game. Mistakes are gonna be made. Um, and it is it's this kind of like dichotomy where you're gonna get your longer trail athletes that are gonna be able to um, you know, kind of fit into this race. This isn't like a series in all. This isn't like a um, you know, maybe a Pikes Peak Ascent, which are significantly shorter. This is gonna, you know, this is gonna really beat you up. And it's gonna take some more, maybe some ultra legs. Yeah, you know, it's possible. So I I don't know. I don't really know where she fits in. I listen, I I my few up front that I see being Sarah Malin, Fabiola, Yudith, and Tove.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But I'll be damned. And I didn't realize Anna Terasova has an 810 itra rating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's pretty high. Very, very strong. I mean, numbers don't mean everything. I hate the ratings, by the way. See, season over season, we're gonna see people who put in the work in the long, dark hours of the winter, and they come out and they are beasts when they start off the season. So, you know, anything can really happen, especially since this is the first race of the year on the calendar. And it it'll be exciting to see who put in the work for this long race and who's ready to get themselves beat up. And I would be remiss if I didn't say, uh, I apologize, Martina Velmasois, uh, for saying Velmasi, which makes it very Italian.
SPEAKER_03Uh, I do want to go back to Aaron Anna Terra Sova because I did make a mistake there. Like, she did race um Zagama back in 2023, and it just kind of shows that you know, listen, an athlete from 2023 is not the same athlete from 2025 nor 2026. She got 20th place. At least she gets to know the course, she has a better understanding. I mean, that's still a great result, don't get me wrong, but that's not what did she run? Uh 525. It's not what it's gonna take to be able to perform well here. Um, and that's just kind of the way it is. Like the same series and all, she was 43rd at series and all. I mean, I'm not gonna lie, like her CCC from last year is no freaking joke. So yeah, there's a lot of opportunity that she's probably improved immensely.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And again, if this is her, is this her first race of the season?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean as far as the UTMB index. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01So if we're I mean if we're gonna give her the time to really prepare uh for a Zagama in the offseason and she knows exactly what she's gunning for out here, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna doubt someone with that type of resume.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Look, I'm I I'm not here to get riddled with bullets from people going, oh man, you you really underestimated this person. I'm like, look, any of these people can have a spectacular day.
SPEAKER_03I couldn't agree more.
SPEAKER_01What what's your take on Fabiola Conte? I think Fabiola Conte is a boss. Is is just and hopefully this comes off in the way that I intend it. I think she's a tank. I think she's just one of those people that she can she can she's fast, she's incredibly strong. Um she I think her third or fourth gear is higher than a lot of people's. And I but I think her consistency and her strength are what her biggest, uh, biggest upsides are going into this. So I think she's gonna be one of those people that maybe she's not gonna be the fastest on the uphill, maybe she's not gonna be the fastest on the downhill. But you throw something chunky, sloppy at her. I think we're gonna see some. I think she's gonna challenge a lot of people out there, especially if the weather is not in everyone's favor and they're gonna have to run on some wet course. I think she kind of emerges as someone that I would heavily look for, look out for on the top end of that podium.
SPEAKER_03100%. She was fifth in 2022. Yeah. And ran 436. Yeah. That's legit.
SPEAKER_01That is exceptionally legit. You're looking at a top five or a top 10 if you're running under four four forty, and you're looking at a podium if you're running under 430, more than likely.
SPEAKER_03I mean, she's had great results at Marathon Dumont Blanc and uh Trofochima, or sorry, not Trofechema, Marathon du Mont Blanc, uh fifth in 2025, obviously third at the long trail at Worlds. She's she's legit. I'm surprised she doesn't have like a like a Solomon sponsorship or something. She's like the only, at least from what I could find. Uh doesn't update her Instagram, by the way. So and I've tried. I I did some digging, like I just couldn't find much on her with like sponsor stuff. So I don't know. I mean, I would think for her dominance, like she would be, you know, like a highly touted prospect.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I would see her as sort of like a gale and rep where she's here to perform and the brands can jump on the ship and support someone who's here for performance.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. She did I I'm I know she just raced a sky race, but it's not in her results on the UTM B Dex for 2026. I freaking Skyrunner now putting those results. I have a lot of things. I think it was what was the race changes race? Um not Ledro. Uh damn. Was it uh was it Lavareto? No. No, no, no. It's uh man, that's gonna it'll come back to me at some point in time. I I know she was just there was yeah, anyway.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because they they didn't even have her on the elite starting line. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's kind of crazy. Uh all right. Do you want to get to we're already almost at an hour? This is nuts. Uh you want to get to um so we kind of did matchups. We talked about some of the individual athletes, and I hope we didn't gloss over anyone. Obviously, these are immensely deep field, so I I you know that we can only get to so many. Um, I do want to give one shout out to Sydney Peterson. Okay. I find that pretty uh Sydney uphill athlete. Uh she was on the world's team for North America or for the United States last year. Um obviously, great result of broken arrow, great result of worlds. Uh, I think that's our that's that's our American hope on the women's side. So big shout out to Sydney. We're we're rooting for you. Kind of a kind of a mentor to her. Um, just had her on the podcast, Stevie Kramer. Nice. Um Stevie Kramer was the only American to ever win Zagama back in 2014. So if you got anybody in your corner, that's a good person for advice. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01If you're if you're looking for the a wealth of knowledge, Stevie's gonna be the person to talk to about this on the American side. Yeah, dude.
Top Five Picks Men And Women
SPEAKER_03Stevie's Stevie's a boss back in the day. One of the one of the goats, man. Yeah. Um, all right, let's do men's. Do we want to do top five? Let's do top five, yeah. All right, all right. I'll let you go first. Give me, give me your give me.
SPEAKER_01This is this is really hard. I know. Uh, and please know that this is subject to change prior to actual race day. But um what I am thinking at the moment is I'm thinking for lucky number 12 out there, we're we're going Killian in first, Elozine in second. I think uh Davide Magnini is going to have a really strong day out there, finished third. Um I'm really a name that we didn't talk about, but I'm I could see getting in here is Robert uh Kemboy. Um and I'm kind of dancing between him and Manu. Um you know what? I'm gonna go Manu. Just gotta go with the previous champion, and then you know, raisin, the red, white, and blue, Taylor stack in fifth.
SPEAKER_03I dude, we have like all right, so very similar. Very I didn't go with any like crazy picks. I have crazy picks on the women's side. Okay, okay, I'm here for it. I'm in the same thing. I have Killian. Killian, I I don't think there's I mean, I peeped to Strava. Obviously, he doesn't put everything on there, and I think Killian just has so much experience and success at this race. There's a reason why he shouldn't win. Um, it could be one of those passing of the torch moments between him and El Housine. It's just I don't know how how much has El Housine improved in the last you know, last year. I think El Housine's great, but I I still see this playing out very similar to like a 2024.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Where you know, also, you know, uh Al Hussein might have some balls of steel if he wants to go and beat Killian. Like, you know, does he have the dog in him? Look, your employer too, you know? I would love to be wrong.
SPEAKER_01I and I would love for him to get fired. No, I'm just kidding. You asshole.
SPEAKER_03No, uh Davide, I think, is the third as well. And I think people need to understand, like, Davide, I'm pretty sure Davide has the third, third fastest time on that Zagama course. It depends on what Davide shows up. Yeah, it's which Davide are we getting out there? Yeah. Um, but yeah, I do. I think Killian, I think Killian's going Sizzler. I think El Housin second, Davide third. I'm going fourth, Antonio Martinez Perez. Okay, I like that. Um and then on fifth, I'm gonna go with our with with Taylor Stack. Uh dude, I think Taylor Stack has a little more to go, but I think that's I think it's either gonna be him, I think it it could be Christian, or it could be it could be Dan Kurtz. Those are my three that I think like have the potential to go over and and perform really well at these types of races. Um Christian's obviously world uphill, you know, on the like Christian's a boss. Exactly. Um Taylor Stack has had a lot of success in the Golden Trail series, and I think Dan Kurtz is all the uh you know ability in the world. So yeah, I think it's gonna be uh I think those are my three that are like those that's the men's future as of right now. And Mason Copi, whenever you know, we gotta get some support behind our our guy. Um but yeah, that's that's my that's my pick for the top five. All right. I think that's a really solid men's top five. It's safe, you know. I didn't really I didn't really swing for the fences on that.
SPEAKER_01See, if you can tell, I'm not really a uh I'm uh I'm not a Las Vegas Nevada kind of guy. I'm not a gambler. Not a gambler. No. I play I try to play the uh percentages on this one.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right, fair enough.
SPEAKER_03All right, let's go uh top five for the women.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I know I was talking up Tovey Alexanderson. I know that I think that she is potentially one of the biggest uh names throwing themselves into uh into trail more seriously this year. I think I've talked myself into a different lineup. I think I'm going Sarah Alonzo one, Tovey two, Judith three, Fabiola Conti four, and Malinosa five. And I think as long as the weather behaves, we're gonna see if the weather behaves, I think we're gonna see all of the top five women under four thir uh under four thirty. I could see that. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that makes sense. I don't think we're I mean, maybe I don't know, dude. It's hard to say with course records. It's always such a tricky, yeah, tricky thing, especially if it's gonna be an immensely wet year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if it's a wet year, I'm I'm throwing time predictions out the window and I'm not trying to nail myself down on that. How did I talk you into uh how did you talk yourself into Toby not winning the race? I think more talking about the amount of experience that goes into this race and sort of having a locals uh a local's knowledge of it. If you look at the results, I mean I know it's a Spanish race, but the top 25 is just littered on both the men's and women's side with Spanish names that you have never heard of just because they are so familiar and had a day that they are proud of. So I think the combination of being an elite level, an elite runner that has lived in this area and has also thrown down at this race before, I I think that Sarah Alonso can do something really big here. I know Tovey, if Tovey wins, I'm not going to be surprised, but I would love to see it's sort of like how you and I talked about um Molly Seidel. I love Molly Seidel. I root for her, I want her to do well, but I was also, we were both excited when she didn't perform by winning Black Canyon right off the bat. And rather it kind of got we kind of got to see really just really how good some of the people within the ultra space. Obviously, Jennifer Lichter is like freaking another genetic freak and just can kind of crush no matter what she throws herself into. But I think it's good. Uh I think it would be exciting to see something in the Golden Trail World Series where Tove actually has experience having run um Golden Trail previously uh and didn't win. You know, obviously, like we said, that was back in 2021, I believe. Completely different episode.
SPEAKER_03At the Azores, Azores, yeah, yeah. But Tovey made a lot of mistakes. Actually, it might have been before then. Uh a lot of some mental mistakes. I don't know. Do you remember I got this is a deep cut? And I listeners, if you guys found out about ice bug and got into contact with that. Are you serious? Yeah. So Tove was, I can remember them being like all frustrated with her from one race because she would go like it because it was a stage race. Yeah. And I can't remember if it was the Azores. I knew she was there for that one, but it might have been, I think it was that one. And uh yeah, they're like just them. You know how Golden Trail likes to create their drama bullshit. But like that was like one of their storylines, and it was about Tovey like just going too hard or something like that. Dude, she fucking crushed it, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she ran except she still finished first team all violence. Yeah. Dude, she was talking like at you can watch the video, it still exists online, thankfully for that. But like she's just talking about how she rolled, like she fell and rolled her ankle like four times on one downhill. And she's like, Can you tape my foot and just wrap it around? She's she'd she'd kill us. Yeah, she's a boss. I look, you do not want to see what I would do to myself if I was on the same starting line as her, but I can tell you my shorts would not be clean.
SPEAKER_03Jesus Christ. Uh all right, let's go. So you you made your picks. I dude, I have the same thing. I've I I had Sarah for the upside. Okay. I do think Sarah pulls off the double win and cements her name into history. Not a lot of women, I think maybe two other women have won the race twice. Yeah. And I think this means a lot to Sarah. Um, I hope to get her on the podcast this year. She's gonna she's coming to broken arrow as well. Oh man, I would be that'd be a fun conversation.
SPEAKER_01I would love to get the chance to speak to her as well, just to like absorb some knowledge and uh hopefully some skill through osmosis. But, you know, that's not unfortunately how it works. You know, last year she was attacked by a bull, dude. I remember that, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. I know. And but she is just someone who perennially you can watch videos of her just bombing downhills and she'll she'll fall hard and keeps on going. And I think that's the story of Sarah Alonzo as someone who is immensely talented. Immensely hardworking and also just has a lot of fight in her. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I agree. The fight. It's it's it I think this might be like one of those ones, you know, all of these races are like that. You know, most of the people showing up are immensely fit, right? A lot of it comes down to what's between the ears and how bad do you want it. And that's why I've got Judith in second.
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_03And I'm going, I'm going Sarah, Yudith, Fabiola third. I've got Toby fourth. I bet you Toby takes the wrong turn. Oh. I'm calling it right now. I you know what? I we can I bet you she leads the race most of the race, takes the wrong turn and makes a mental mistake. I just I don't know. Like I I something about it, like there's just something I don't know. It's a weird take to have, but I just see I see her falling out of the top three.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Maybe I'm crazy. I don't know. And I hope Toby wins. Whatever. But like look, we can hold hands and jump into the abyss together, brother.
unknownJesus.
SPEAKER_03And uh I'm gonna go male in fifth. I think she's a solid. I think those four or five women. Um you remember uhith has not raced this year, maybe once.
SPEAKER_01Uh I did I don't remember seeing anything on her calendar, but I could be misremembering.
SPEAKER_03She was second at Keanti.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she had a good day out there.
SPEAKER_03Um at the Keanti Marathon. 40 actually 40. It was the 100k. Uh well, not the 100k, but it was 46.6 miles. Gotcha. A 50 miler. Yeah. Um, which is probably one of the longest races she's ever done. She DNF'd uh the short trail worlds back in um you know, back in September, but that was coming right off of OCC where she got second.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, and also, I mean, she's not a new mom, but she's got that mom strength. I I do believe in the power of parenthood, and uh when people can find the way to balance training and being a parent at the same time, you oftentimes uh see some crazy performances from people. So I I fully believe that Yudith is one of those people that she's just got everything really dialed. She is she's so controlled with all of her effort, and she is such a consistent performer.
SPEAKER_03I mean, second last year I ran 429 and then followed it up with another second place at Marathon du Mont Blanc. So I yeah, I I she's gonna be very hard to beat. Yeah. I'm yeah. I'm not one to bet against her. Yeah, definitely second or somewhere in there, maybe wins. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01These things are these things are so hard to predict. Oh, and you said who's your fifth Malinosa?
SPEAKER_03Malinosa. Okay, yeah, yeah. I think those are I think it's solid. I I think there's gonna be more swings in the women's field. I don't know. Something about me makes me feel like Toby's not gonna not gonna pull it off. But maybe maybe there's sheer dominance there and she breaks the course record. Who the fuck knows?
SPEAKER_01It it's one of those two options. She either has a strong day, still finishes top five, or she swings for the fences and does something that is unbelievable.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. I mean, dude, it's it can't be understated what she did at at the short trail worlds. Like just absolutely I could talk about that for a year. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was I think that was was that Free Trails performance of the year last year? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I I think it was, and I mean, deservedly so. I think that should catapult her so highly in people's minds that if she's ever on a start list, you you best have done your homework and your training to make sure that you're you're gonna do everything in your power to make sure she doesn't get away from you.
SPEAKER_03I mean, she beat Sarah by 34 minutes, dude. You don't think Sarah's gonna remember that and like be a little miffed about that? And there's no way Sarah's gonna lose on her own channel. There's a chip somewhere on her shoulder. There is, there's no way Sarah's gonna let that happen. At least I don't think so. But if that were me, I would, yeah, fucked up.
SPEAKER_01All of these competitors, I've I've talked to a few different women that are uh elites in the ultra and short trail space, and all of them are competitors. I everyone is we're fortunate to be in a sports sport where most people can get along pretty well and they are supportive of each other. But you talk to people behind closed doors, men, women, non-binary, doesn't matter. Everyone has the competitive instinct and they want to win. They're not trying to settle for second, they're trying to settle for getting what's best for them and making sure that they are on the top of that podium.
SPEAKER_03It's true. That's true. And I I don't wanna I don't want to overstate too. Sarah Alonzo, going back to it, has the third and fourth fastest times on the course. Judith has the sixth fastest time.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_03Uh, you know, we didn't talk about Therese Lebeau as well, uh, Swiss athlete, ninth fastest time. Uh I think she's a solid contender for top 10 as well.
SPEAKER_01On the on the men's side, we didn't talk about uh Coife. Um uh I don't I don't know how to pronounce his first name, my apologies. Locian um coife, uh French runner. Um he's had a lot of uh really really strong uh performances in the last year or two. He's someone else I I could look out for in the top five, top ten. So keep your eyes peeled.
SPEAKER_03I do think we get, I mean, this is uh I don't think this is too bold of a statement to make. I think our two our two American men in the race are top 20. Yeah. Like I do see Taylor Stock top, top five, top 10. And then don't, like I said, don't sleep on Nicholas Turko. I think Nicholas Turko easily top 20 performer out there. And then I do, I think Sidney Peterson as well. I think uh on the women's side, top 10. Uh, there's no reason why not, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I and look, we're talking a lot about the top five and the top 10 and what the importance of having that is. If you're having a top 25 day out here, no matter what, that is you're setting yourself up for success. I'm sure uh there's in the minds of a lot of these athletes, that's you know, they're looking for that top 10, top five performance. But if you're finishing the top 20, top 25, you are still in rarefied air. Still going to Sizzler. Yeah, you're still going to Sizzler, you're still getting yourself a nice big plate of fajitas and you're going home happy, baby. It's my favorite. People, I've gotten dogged on for that one going to Sizzler.
SPEAKER_03I'm like, that's like my favorite. It's like my fun fact.
SPEAKER_01Little little story. I had a teacher in high school, and if you got a uh if you got a good grade on a test, you go, oh yeah, baby, where are you going tonight? The Sizzler.
SPEAKER_03I forgot what movie is it from? I I forget what movie I got it from. It's definitely from a movie though. Yeah, and go ahead. It's been a long time. Tell me more. Yeah, no, I can't remember. Um I was gonna talk about tacky I don't even want to Takako Takamura. Tell me. Uh feed it, feed the dog. Just another, like, I don't know, just so many strong women in this field, dude. Um I think recently. Uh in 2024, just another one that's gonna compete, you know.
SPEAKER_01I mean, on the I know on the men's side there's 24 or 23 men with over 900 uh UTMB scores, and the women's field is equally dense. I mean, obviously, Tove's performance from last year really kind of catapulted her up to 850, I think. Next closest is 820. But we've yeah, we've got we've reasonably got 15 to 20 women on uh on that side that can pull out a really big day. So they're everything's up in the air. We're talking about some big names that have performed well here, but any, you know, any given day, someone it has prepared harder that than anyone else in the field that we've never heard of before. And that's when greatness is truly found in races like this.
SPEAKER_03Special race, man. Um yeah, I don't think there's anything too crazy other than you know, like Killian. I think Killian is the the very clear favorite.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh it's hard to bet against someone who has this much knowledge uh and this much experience just winning on this course alone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Dude, these mics did pretty good. They held up a full full battery the entire time. Dang. That's good. Pretty impressed. Shout out to the road. The road.
SPEAKER_01Shout out to me. Yeah, and shout out to my cleavage right here for and everyone who's paying for extra premium. People can't see it actually.
SPEAKER_02Your chest, your metals are just.
SPEAKER_03I have a qu I have a question for you. Yeah. What's your take on this on the UTMB indexes? I had I was on a podcast recently. I I was a guest on a podcast, someone asked me about it. And I I don't know, I just don't think they're that accurate yet.
SPEAKER_01I so growing up in a sport uh like tennis, where I know I gave a little bit of background. I was fortunate. I walked on to a D1 program and I played a lot of competitive um tennis growing up. Ranking systems have been um really inaccurate for a long time. You would get ranked based on how you did in tournaments, but uh I would go, I was ranked regionally in the mid-Atlantic in the top 20 with a few uh hundred or thousand kids in that um in that region. And there are days where I would lose to people who are ranked 150, and there are days where I beat guys who are ranked top five. There's now a a a rating system that is much more widely used because uh the USTA has a ranking system that if you have even ancillarily heard of tennis, you've heard of 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0 ratings. And people are do not fit in those rating systems at all. There's now something called UTR or the Universal Tennis Rating. Um, that is something that got developed way before this new updated UTMB system. It's been around for, I think, in the neighborhood of 10 years now. And it is the most accurate ranking system I have ever seen. It not only takes every sanctioned match you play, whether it's in a local league or in a tournament, and but it weights it based on what the other person's ranking is, how uh how easily you beat them or how difficult the match was overall, um, and then it it constantly updates after every single match. Whoops. Um so something like that where it's getting as as long as you're playing frequently and getting more and more feedback and more and more data points for it to utilize, it gets increasingly more accurate. And by the time that you've played 50 matches that are sanctioned, you're starting to see really accurate scores. Now, the issue is with the UTMB ranking kind of bringing this all the way back, is I think they're trying very hard to do something that is subjective uh or objectively very difficult to understand, especially when you've got people who may only race one to three times a year, and then you they come into a race next year, and let's say they have a Tovey Alexanderson type performance where they blow everyone out of the out of the water, they get injured, and next thing you know, this person's got, let's say, an 850 to an 875 ranking. Even on the men's side, that's a an exceptionally competitive ranking. But I there we do not have enough data points to kind of fuel the type of accurate ranking system because people are consistently getting better, getting sick, getting injured. And there's no way to track that unless you're looking at their Strava data, their coros, their Garmin data on a week by week basis. Essentially, if you're gonna be their coach, you're gonna know how good someone is. But the this ranking system, while it's great, I I I shouldn't say while it's great, while it is uh aiming to fix a problem that I think has kind of What's the problem though? That's my curiosity. I think the problem in their mind is that they're trying to create a system where they can delineate uh upper uh upper upper middle packers to elite runners. That's I think that's they're trying to delineate that line or delineate that those echelons so that they can more clearly say, okay, you get into the elite field, we're gonna give you the type of treatment that an elite athlete deserves. But then you've got someone like Jane Moss who has is one of the best athletes in the world right now, especially at that, you know, 25k up to 50k distance. She just absolutely crushes, especially if it's something that's super technical. She's gonna blow people out of the water, but she doesn't even get an elite sign-up for a Merrill sky running race. Like, oh, I didn't know that. Or uh what was that I what she was at a race and where they didn't even have her in the elite field recently, and then she ended up coming in third. Oh, calamaro, that was the name I forgot. Calamaro, yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, they didn't they they did she didn't get recognized early enough. And again, someone may be say screaming into the ether right now, going, Steve, you're so wrong about this. But uh, but I still think that what the what the issue that's gonna continue to plague things like this is we're never gonna have enough data points in a single season unless we're also factoring in training, which no one wants to be the best at practice, they want to be the best at performing on the day it matters. We talk about practice out here, dude.
Why Trail Records Are Complicated
SPEAKER_03How many? Okay, hold that thought for one second about practice. And then we'll one thing I want to go to. I I think the one most obvious thing we're missing though is like, dude, courses also change, and you're talking about course technicality. Like you can't at all, like there's you would need your own index for a course technicality. It just wouldn't make sense. We should all just switch to ultra sign up indexes. I'm just kidding. Right, right, right. Get a little power ranking with ultra sign up. But no, the um well, dude, like think of Pike's Peak. I think Pike's Peak is a great example. I was literally just talking to Kieran Nay about this. Like the course that Matt Carpenter broke that record on is not the same course that we see today. We all know this. What's the what's the difference between the course? Oh, dude, the W's are significantly more technical than that. That's right, that's right. Okay, and I would even say the upper switchbacks above bar are way more technical than they used to be, and just like rot it out and more more rocks. It's just way, it's a completely different, like beat up course. Yeah. Um, now that there's those, and you could account for this because you just ran the marathon. Those stupid, especially as a short person, I don't like this. Those I gotta like jump. Um, those like uh the the log retainers. Yes, dude. What the fuck? Who thought about putting those fucking things in?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I can tell you exactly who it's Rimfee. So if you wanna find no, we we love the work of Rimfey. Ultimately, I don't uh so what he's referring to is they put in some log barriers to help um with erosion. Yeah, to help with erosion, and eventually they will uh create some uh semi-clear steps. We are in the first year of them getting uh installed on bar trail, and so right now they're just these huge log barriers that you kind of have to either step on or jump over completely. I'm fortunate enough that my legs are long enough that I just kind of long stepped over them and I didn't have too much issue. But I saw several bloodied knees and shins from people who were like, Yep, I caught a toe on that and because I was tired and uh, you know, I kind of ruined my downhill after that. Yeah, it was pretty I don't like those things.
SPEAKER_03But anyway, to make a long story short, the course is completely different. And when you start to apply that historically, when you look at races like Zagama, you look at races like Pikes Peak, uh, the Mumbang Marathon series and all, like courses do just change over time with erosion and you know, this isn't a track. Um, and I think it's really hard when you're starting to and even dude, like courses also change. Like, how many times has the UTMB course changed over the last decade?
SPEAKER_01I mean four times. And there's never going to be a fucking end to people just going, oh, well, this person didn't run the fastest time because X thing is different. I was like, look, they're all hard. We can say, like, honestly, I'm getting into the mindset more and more of like, who cares about historically fast times on courses? Because there is no way to guarantee you're running the same race. The only time that it really matters is if you're running a London marathon, a Chicago, a Boston, a road marathon where you're running the same course. The only thing that may change is the temperature outside and the whether it's raining or not, or snowing or something. But on trail courses, yeah, it might be, you know, we might have to think about all those things in just one part of our mind. But then we also have to think, okay, well, now that it's raining, like I'm not going to be able to run hill because I'm going to face plant on a rock because I can't get any traction on it. I'm running on a 30% upgrade with a thousand people yelling at me right now. And I'm uh I'm in 10th place. So this course is already slightly chewed up. You know, what is it? Yeah. Yeah, there's no way to do it. I think celebrating the win is big is, my, in my opinion, more important than celebrating the course record. That's my hot take for the day, but I don't know if it's that hot. That's maybe like, I don't know, a small fajat sizzler, who knows?
SPEAKER_03Now, my hot take for the day is I don't think the Matt Carpenter record will ever be broken. I don't think it will either on the Bikespeak Marathon. I'm the more time goes by, I don't think it will ever be cracked. I don't think people will even get close. Especially with the way the race is now, it's not as competitive as it's been the last decade. So we would need like I think the women's record will go down. Like there are people walking around today that like Jane Moss, great example. Yeah. I think Jane, uh Taylor Tuttle. I think there's a few people walking around in this, like Lauren Gregory's another one. Um Anna Gibson, who is coming to Pikes Peak this year. I'm gonna leak, I'm gonna leak that. Don't tell anybody. I won't. That gets me excited. Uh, but like there are people walking around that can that can break the women's record. I Maud, what did Maud run? 403, something like that. It was a very impressive time. Yeah. Um, what's the second fastest women's time? It's not a Tina record, is it? Could be. Tina's got the downhill record. I don't know what the second fastest women's time is. I could find that out, but it would take me a while to look at it.
SPEAKER_01Also, shout out local legend Christina Mascarenas. Uh, you she's won Pike's Peak Marathon three times now? Four. Four, yeah. And she, if you're ever running on trails out here, uh, she's likely taken um many of the men's records on section 16 and uh is just a crusher of a human human being. I don't know her personally, just know of her, and I've seen her multiple times out on trail. She's a good human.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. It's funny, she has that section 16 record, that loop, and uh, I run on that loop probably once or twice a week. And still, like uh I'm very impressed with how fast she ran. I think she ran at 44 minutes. That's that's I I like unless I was tapered, I don't think I don't think I could do that. Like yeah, she's immensely fast.
SPEAKER_01That's one of the that's one of those routes that uh I wish got more eyeballs on it, but I'm also glad that it doesn't. It's still one of the more traffic trails in the springs, but I we people listen to this. We gotta stop talking about this. I know. Yeah, don't move to the springs. It sucks down here. We don't have any good trails, especially cascades. People and uh people suck down here that no one wants to run with you. Yeah, everything's bad.
Practice Strava And Racing Priorities
SPEAKER_03Uh no, pra what I was getting to before we close out was practice. This is something that, like, man, I was thinking about this a lot lately. Uh, because I I I'm like on Strava, but like off Strava. Like, I I don't you are too.
SPEAKER_01Like, yeah, I I post uh private stuff on there. And it was funny. Before my race, I've got a buddy who's very, very good New Mexico runner. He's I mean, if he got thrown into any race, he'd usually be projected to be in the top five, doesn't really matter where. Um, and it was it was funny because he was like, So, what are you planning on running out there? I'm getting really scared with you being in monk mode for eight eight months at this point. I was like, oh, get ready for that for the rest of my life. Like, I'm I can utilize that for my own data, but I I also know that my watch gives me everything that I need. The only thing I truly miss is like seeing times on segments.
SPEAKER_03Yep. Yeah, that and that's why I keep it, but I just keep it uh just so I only I can see and I have everything muted. Yeah. Um yeah, I'm a psycho that way. But no, I was thinking about like practice in the sense where I come across so many athletes that like it's always about the Strava segments. Yeah. But like they suck at races.
SPEAKER_01I've got I I've I know a lot of people in my life that I've run with that are wonderful human beings, but yeah, they they put a lot of emphasis on on the Strava segment. And you know what? If your goal is to run FKTs is to do segments, that is great. But if you're also if you're also trying to go out and run run big races and do big things and but you get slurped into doing in a you know a segment, you know, KOM the week before, it's gonna be a lot harder to perform day of.
SPEAKER_03It's true. Yeah, the only person that's like not a pro that uh I I've seen like have success at both racing and uh Instrava is D Nable.
SPEAKER_02I got I got to give him his flowers. Yeah, like he's D Nable puts it.
SPEAKER_03And I'd say Ace too. Ace is pretty good at it, but like Ace, I know he's raced a little bit less in the last few years, but he's another one, dude. What one of the best downhillers on the planet. Are we gonna overlook maybe the biggest goat of all time, Joe? Yeah, he's the sandbagger. Nobody knows what he does on the strip. He would get so bad if I see nobody, but he does. He keeps his stuff, I mean, relatively private. I don't know. He's uh yeah. I'm excited for what he's gonna do this year. I I know he'll he's got some announcements to him. He's got some announcements to make. His shoe announcement? Not a shoe announcement, but I know there's a there's a sponsor announcement that he'll put out there. Um but like just even racing. Like, I'm sure you know he's gonna continue to do uh I think he'll go back to Pikes. Um, but and he'll go win six. Yeah, I was like told him I was like, you know, Jordan, Jordan's got six.
SPEAKER_01Well, do you yeah, do you think uh do you think Jonathan's gonna let him take that away from him?
SPEAKER_03Well, marathon versus ascent. Oh okay, gotcha, gotcha. You know, I it's uh I don't know. I I don't see John uh I don't know though, man. I I I I think John um you know, I I think he's uh he'll have what five this year if he wins? Something like that. Yes. And one of those is a short looking short year. Yeah, if John can pull it off again, I mean then he's in the uh like he's on Mount Rushmore for the marathon at least. I think he already sort of fits in that niche. I do as much as I love John, I want to see Kieran Nay get one. Oh yeah. And it took Jordan seven to win his first. Hey, hey, look, all it takes is one. Yeah, and it's a domino effect. Yeah, it's true. And I would love to see Brian like I I like I know Jacob Dewey's gonna be in the race this year. Uh I don't think Brian's coming back, but Brian's another one with the ability to win uh anything he does. But I'm that that would be the ascent. Um Yeah, we're putting together a good field so far. Things are coming together. A lot of like up and coming young names. Um Yeah, you got this guy, Steve Taylor, in the mix. Yeah, you got we gotta start getting you uh oh we'll have to start do some threshold work together. I know Mason.
SPEAKER_01Trust me, I already I already talked to Mason. The plans are planning and the the uh training's gonna get big and I'm excited for it. I I think despite my letdown last weekend, we're both excited that I can just essentially start, you know, utilizing the fitness I gained from that day. Gave myself like three or four days of rest and ran this morning. Everything felt good, and uh I you know I'm not I'm not anyone anyone should be worried about for right now. But uh I I think uh I think you know it'll just be fun to get out and get some training in with you, get some uh above bar camp uh up to A frame type work going on. I got some sandbag routes, we'll we'll I'll show you on Strava later. Springs suck.
Final Thoughts And Sign Off
SPEAKER_03All right, Steve. Uh thanks for coming on the show, buddy. Dude, this was a great this was a fun one. I love this in person. We got all right, so we'll start doing we'll start doing this more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this was actually a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it, man. Thank you so much for having me on. And again, everyone, I know this is the most cliche thing. Zagama is a gama, and we're both really fucking pumped about it. Uh, I don't think there's a more exciting race on the calendar, in my opinion, but I think this is just the best way to start the year, and I'm just so appreciative to be a part of this. I'll do love you, bro. Thank you. Love you too, man.
