The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
Christian "Slim" Allen - Pre UTMB OCC Interview
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Sierre Zinal doesn’t hand out gifts, and neither does a season that starts with a stress reaction, rolls into a posterior tib strain, and then keeps whispering from an irritated Achilles. We sit down with Christian Allen fresh off a huge European stretch to talk about what finally clicked, how he stayed consistent enough to stack results, and why his best racing shows up when he resists the urge to force the day early.
We get specific about the realities of pro trail running training: when to shut things down, when to lean on cross training to keep your engine, and how you decide whether pain is “manageable” or a warning siren. Christian shares how he navigates limited certainty without perfect health insurance, why trusted PT support matters, and what a hydrodisection injection did and did not change. If you care about injury prevention, Achilles tendinopathy management, or smart return to running, there are plenty of practical takeaways here.
Then we pivot to OCC at UTMB week. Christian explains why OCC feels like one of the sport’s most meaningful sub ultra wins, how he thinks about pacing a now longer 60K distance, and why “run your own race” is harder than it sounds when the front of the field lights up from the gun. We also talk Golden Trail World Series selection, the balance between road speed and trail skill, and his longer arc toward Olympic Trials marathon goals before stepping up to 100 mile racing.
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SPEAKER_01This is the podcast. What's up, guys? Uh hey, before we get started, if you haven't already, whatever platform you're listening to this on, please hit that subscribe or follow button, whether that's Apple, Spotify, or YouTube. Uh those subscriptions go a super long way in being able to keep the podcast going and allowing me to continue to tell the stories of these amazing athletes and also do some of the race coverage and all the good stuff that we've been doing over the last few years. And also, if you haven't already, please give us a rating and a review if you haven't. Yeah, let us know what you guys think about the podcast and I hope you enjoy this episode. Thanks so much for tuning in.
Christian Allen Returns And Rebuilds
SPEAKER_01All right, Christian Allen, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man? Good, man. How are you doing, James? Dude, living the dream. I'm super excited to chat with you. I know it's been it's been a while. It's been like pretty close to a year. I think the last time we chatted was pre pre-world. So it's good to catch up. It's been a minute. Uh a lot has happened since then. And yeah, I'm just excited to uh to catch up
Sierre Zinal Breakthrough And American Record
SPEAKER_01with you. So uh I'd say first question, man. How are you feeling post uh a huge double between Plitz Alpin Glacier and series and all where you cracked both of them out of the park? How's the uh how you feeling post?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, feeling good overall. I think uh last year coming off a little bit of a low in the Golden Trail World Series, like uh I knew my potential could be in that top five, top, I think right around that top five uh overall in the final rankings. And so I just know I needed to get some pretty consistent showings, and uh it was great just to walk away with two top ten uh back-to-back weekends, and then gearing it for OCC, and then hopefully uh I can get two more strong showings in the Asia Tour uh later in September. So amazing. Amazing.
SPEAKER_01Specifically, I I have a feeling like series and all probably means a ton to you. I mean, this is your third crack at it, and you knocked one out of the park. Um how does it feel? I mean, especially the American record, dude, to to have done so well, uh, be the first American this year and be right up there in the mix.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it felt great. Uh I think it's like just such a historic race. It has such rich history uh and has had many Americans do really well there. And uh someone I've become acquainted and become friends with over, I guess probably about three years ago is Pablo Vihil. And so it's been funny chatting with him the last few years and not quite having the best races, but uh just chatting with him and kind of getting his feedback on the course and what he did and whatnot is like really inspiring. I was like, man, I gotta be like Pablo, you know. I wanna I want to contend for the win someday. So this year I didn't contend for the win, but it was nice to get an American record with so many greats running, like Pablo and uh Jim and others that have paved the path for us. And uh so it was sweet to get that and uh have just a good PR in general and kind of be close to cracking that that top five every year. It gets more and more competitive, so that top five uh time just gets faster and faster. But uh hoping for this next year around I can crack sub 230 and then just kind of continue to progress on that and hopefully uh compete for the win here in future years. So
Stress Reactions Post Tib Strain Achilles
SPEAKER_00amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I got a question for you. This is like not not related to you, but just in in general. Like it's funny, man. I've watched film and been beat. Like, I think you have probably beat him. Quite a few Americans have beat him. How what does he have figured out on that course? Yeah, like I don't know. It's so weird.
SPEAKER_00It is very interesting. Uh I've raced uh film on quite a few times, and ironically, I don't want to say he struggles, but like VKs, um, I'm four, four and one against him on VK's. And last year, just this last year at Broken Arrow, like was the last time he beat me, and I was just so early in my stage. Like the VK I did there was literally my second uphill workout I've done, like of the or I maybe like second or third. Like my first uphill workout was at Sunipe. Um, and then I did like a small workout the week before, and then it was like that workout. So I just felt like with how close I was, and I was starting to gain on him towards the end, I was like, oh man, Philemon beat me. But like overall, like Philemon is good at VKs, but he's not like as good as he is about these up-down circuits. So, but he really crushed that one out of the park, and I don't know. It's crazy, yeah. Dude, guys got series and all figured out.
SPEAKER_01I it's it's it's kind of wild. He shows up for that. Um talk to me a little bit about your because your build's been interesting this year. You won um, what was it, the uh trail Charles Calts? Is it 50k? And then, but it's been like uh I don't want to say a slower build, but you had to go through Sunnipee and then get through Broken Arrow. And you had just said it's been um you only had so many, you know, uphill workouts. Were you working through injury coming back from that, like kind of through there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I mean at the start of the year, I it kind of funny and ironic. Last year is the same thing. I was actually getting ready for Boston, and then I ended up having a stress reaction in my shin again. Uh luckily I caught this a little earlier in the uh earlier out from Boston from last year. Um, and so I was able to kind of shut things down and get back to running a little quicker. And even last year's stress reaction took forever. It was like the longest I've ever had with a bone injury before I could get back. It took like a full six weeks of no running. And and this one I was able to turn around in like I think three or four weeks because I caught it a little sooner because I was able to feel like, okay, this feels a lot like last year. So I was building back from that, and then ironically, just building back from my stress reaction, I think I was like subconsciously like compensating. I was like tentative to land on my right side. So ironically, my right side of my shin started having issues. Um, and this was like early May, late April when I started having issues. Um, and I was like, oh my gosh, I thought I had another stress reaction because it just kept getting worse, and it was like, or it had very similar symptoms, and it was just kind of bothering me. So I went and got an MRI, and luckily it was just I'd strained my post-tib. Um, and so I think what had happened is I did like an uphill workout and on a treadmill, and I was just trying to do like low impact, like kind of stuff like that. And maybe I just hadn't warmed up the calves enough. So I had a post-hip strain there, and then while I was kind of nurturing that, this was like pretty close to my 50K uh that was coming up. So I was doing a lot of supplemental like biking and and art trainer and then just trying to get some more of my key sessions running. Um, but my right post-tip was bothering me, and then uh like literally the week before I flew out to France for this this 50K, and the reason I had pushed the envelope so hard to try to get back for this, it was like my last chance to qualify for uh UT or OCC this year. So I was like, man, I gotta do this, or like I'm not going to OCC this year. So, but ironically, as I was coming back from that like post-tip stuff, like my Achilles flared up on my left side, and then my left Achilles has been bothering me. I still have a little bit of issues, but it was funny. It was bothering me all the way through broken arrow. Um and the week of broken arrow, I got this thing called a hydro dissection injection. Um, it's supposed to just kind of like balloon the area and help like lubricate it so it's not rubbing as much. Um, and I was hoping that would just kind of get rid of the pain. And it didn't get rid of it, but it did make it go from like maybe a five out of ten on the pain scale to like more of a two or three out of ten. And um, after broken arrow, I'd been cross-trained so much, like the most I'd ran in the last four months was like 60 miles, and I just do 60 miles in six days. I just do six day cycles. Um, but uh I was like, man, this is like so low. Like I'd love if I'm usually healthy, I'm around like the hundred mile range, give or take, um plus or minus 10 miles usually. And so after broken air, I was like, you know what? Like it's not getting any worse, it's not getting any better. Like I run on it or I take like a few days off and then come back to running, it doesn't seem to get really any better. So I just kind of like started running full, uh fully on it. And I was like, if I'm doing some of these uh golden shell races and OCC, I really gotta just get like time on feet. Like, don't get me wrong, I think supplemental training can go a really long way, and it's been it helped me get to that 50k and I was able to like win that and do really well, but like it's just a little different, and so uh since then I've just been running like more fully, and my Achilles for the most part, like occasionally it'll like kind of swell up and balloon back there, but like it's still more of just like a two or three out of ten, and most days it's pretty good. And um, so I just been running through it. It's been good, and I can't complain, but it's just weird because it won't officially go, like it won't completely go away, but it doesn't bother me uh enough to like stop doing anything that I am. So it's just good to be back to like healthy, normal mileage for the most part. That's crazy, dude.
SPEAKER_01Do you do you is it stress you out a lot having to like plug and play and just kind of like make sure you're I guess you have to be on top of all this stuff with these little things that like kind of pop up. Does is that stressful for you?
SPEAKER_00I think at times when you don't know exactly what it is, like uh I don't have great health insurance this year, and so like um luckily it's not like awfully expensive, but it's like three or four hundred dollars for like an out-of-pocket MRI. And I was like, oh man, do I get I get do I get an MRI or like has very similar symptoms to like my other stress reaction, or is it, you know, so sometimes it's kind of annoying, but I also have like a lot of great resources. Like, shout out to Hammond, Foot and Ankle and run a lead program in Utah, along with Africare, like, and uh there's just a lot of great resources with uh Nike that allows me to see some of the PTs in there. So I've got a lot of uh great people around me that I will see and kind of brainstorm with and and uh you know do some dry needling and grafting or other modalities. So um a little plug and play, but I feel like once you've been in the game this long, you kind of get to know your body pretty well. Like you're like, okay, this is probably not as serious of an injury. Um, and sometimes there's a little like plug and play. You're like, okay, you test it out for a couple weeks, you're like, okay, maybe it is worse than I thought, but um I think everyone kind of goes through cycles like that. It's just part of running, you know. Um non-contact sport, but it seems like a lot of things pop up. So it's a contact
Trail Season Versus Road Season
SPEAKER_00sport, dude.
SPEAKER_01You get beat up. Do you do do you train a ton like mostly on the trails, or do you spend a lot of time on the roads? I honestly did not peep your Strava before this. I was just very curious.
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, I do uh usually from April to October, November. I'm I'm mostly on the trails. Uh and then that kind of more November to April, I'm a bit more on the roads. Um, just inherently the trails in Utah aren't as runnable as uh even like a boulder or stuff like that, where they get a little more direct sunlight and the trails are a little more dry. But I'm also just doing marathon training that that block as is. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's one of the things I find so impressive about you is you have this range that a lot of trail riders just don't, like even at the highest end, like to be able to compete and run such fast marathons and then also compete on the golden trail scene that it's it's kind of crazy. There's not a lot of people kind of like still like you in our space, which is interesting.
SPEAKER_00Uh oh, thanks. I appreciate it.
What A Great OCC Would Mean
SPEAKER_01Yeah, dude. Um all right, let's get into OCC and talk a little bit about this. Um obviously, this is your second crack at it, right? So I that's what a research-wise shows. Um dude, what would it mean for you to to complete the not just complete the race, but have a good race? Because, dude, when you I think you when you ran a wood in 2024, dude, you were leading the race for for a nice solid chunk of it. Um what what do you think you've grown? I mean, I I'm I'm sure you've grown a ton uh between now and then and have changed a lot as an athlete. Uh what would it mean to you to do well here and what do you think you will change going into this race?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it mean a lot to me. I think on the sub-ultra scene, um, I guess this is an ultra, but like I kind of can consider that like 50k distance and blow is kind of like my sub-ultra scene or whatever. Um uh I feel like it's kind of like the pinnacle that like slightly dipping your toe into the ultra scene slash subultra. It's like if you could win a Syrah Zenal or an OCC or a Zagama or for some of those like big races like that, like they would mean a lot, or Marathon Mount Blanc, or you know, those are just like some pretty historic, like big ones that would mean a lot. Um, and so OCC I think is kind of like uh one of those stones I would like to collect and kind of put on the shelf, so to speak. Um Golden Trail races, I think if you're able to win a golden trail race or or compete for like uh a podium at those races, it it can uh it means a lot and they're very competitive races. And OCC is very similar to that. Like um, and maybe even more so just because I feel like a lot more people know about OCC. It just seems like kind of like the Super Bowl weekend of trail running or you know, ultra running, so to speak. So um I've had a few 50Ks now that I've done. I uh I finally kind of completed the success rate a little bit more. I'm like two for four. So I'd love to uh knock this one out of the park. And um, I think it just takes like being a little more patient and smart and uh having done so many sub ultra and coming from a college background, like it's easy to be like, oh man, this feels so easy, and I go out super hard, and then like halfway through, you're like mile 20, like I'm I'm not feeling so hot actually. So just want to play smart and be uh conservative, but also put my put my nose in it to compete for a win.
SPEAKER_01So it's interesting because like we don't get and and this is not me just uh glazing you, but like we don't get too many athletes like you in the sport where people come from such high pedigrees. Like we'll have our Eli's that come around every now and then, and then you uh and athletes like yourself, and even Mason Copi now that's really kind of grown into his own. Um, but you'll be on the start line with someone like Eli. Will you key off of him? Like, how do you race a race like this? Do you just kind of strategy-wise, uh like you said, you'll kind of hold back a little bit, but will you watch to see what they're doing, or are you just gonna play your own game?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, honestly, that's probably something I'll chat with my coach a little bit more. I think since I know it's hard because you see, like last year, like Jim went out really hard and pretty much led from like gun to you know, like from the when the gun went off to the end, so to speak. Um but I mean there's some good people. Like I actually think Eli's not I think Eli's in the C in CCC this year, but like you got I'm pretty sure he is, but you got like you know, Remy Bonnet and Francesco Poopy and uh Daniel Pattis, and there's all kinds of names. I mean, there's a ton of like great international and Americans in there as well. So um it's hard. I feel like the alarm bells go off in my head a little bit, and I think maybe that's why I've raced, I've been like uh only half successful at these 50k distances. Pretty much every 50k I've ran, I've been with the leaders or led the race, um, and either imploded or like won the race. Um I think it's hard for me to dec to like be like, okay, conserve and like just like let people leave and be like, oh yeah, they're going out too hard, like they'll come back to me. But especially this year where the race is like almost 40 miles, it's like more, it's a 60k this year. Um, and I've never gone anything over like 32 or 33 miles, like so it's just even like five, six more miles more than I've done. Um I think just being smart and conservative uh can go a long way. And having ran like a a Sears and all, I it actually is kind of like a good precursor for this because I really had to kind of like run my own race. Like it's easy to get sucked out going too hard in that beginning climb and then just implode. Um and I moved pretty well after we hit the climb, and obviously I wasn't able to quite reel back in those leaders, but I think um it can go a long way for just running your own race and not getting sucked into what others are doing. So interesting.
SPEAKER_01So I love seeing you on the short trail scene. This is, I mean, I feel like you're you're our guy, especially on the US side. Um, does it interest you to like do the ultra stuff, like the real, like the like the go the gym route and eventually do this hundred mile stuff? Like, does that interest you at all, like long term in your career, like years down the line?
Olympic Marathon Goals Before Longer Ultras
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, I think for sure. I think every time I watch Western States, I'm like, oh like the next day I'm like, I'm doing Western next year is what I say. But like it doesn't really make sense to, I think, at this point in my career. Um, granted, though there's like younger and younger people hopping into it. You got like Hans, I think he's like a year or two younger than I am. And um, I mean, there's a plethora of other people that are just like kind of younger, starting at it more in like their mid-20s instead of like, you know, the early 30s. But uh a big overarching goal for me, like the next year and a half, two years, is to try to make that Olympic trials team and uh try to make the Olympic marathon team. So that 2028 Olympics is like a big like goal of mine. And I really don't want to go anything over kind of like that 50k distance until after that, just to uh mess with the speed, so to speak. Like I don't know if it will actually do anything to that, but I just get a little worried about going uh farther longer and and what that could possibly do to like just uh your muscle um breakdown of you know like quick twitch, slow twitch stuff, and just kind of like maintaining some of that uh I guess quick twitch integrity or s or stuff like that. So I'm just kind of putting uh a pause on that. I jokingly said, hey, Western States 2029, so maybe after if I made the Olympics or something, I could check that off the box. Like maybe I'd give it a shot for Western States the following year or something. But first I gotta qualify for that, so uh that's that first has to happen anyways.
SPEAKER_01But what what calls you more? Are you do you consider yourself more a road athlete or a trail athlete? Like how do you uh kind of decipher that in your head?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm definitely more trail, I think, but I love to just like compete and put my nose in all things, and I still feel like I'm like uh I still feel like what I'm capable of running on the roads is is far away from what I ran. Um like I feel like I was feeling pretty good going into Boston, and I I want to run like a 206 flat is kind of my goal. And so and Boston was like the prime year to do that. Like everyone and their dog PR'd perfect like tailwind, like perfect weather, the course record went down, laddie laddie law. So it was like card like not being on that star line, but trying to find a a fast one to run this December, and it's still kind of TVD on what all uh what marathon I'll end up running, but um hoping to get like a fast one in before the end of this year and then target a few more things next year. But super cool.
SPEAKER_01And then as far as golden trail goes, is that something you want to continue? Because I know you know we talked about a lot about that. Um is that something you want to take a crack at? The only reason I ask is because like dude, you're right there. Like it's like you, Taylor, as far as like the American men really kind of starting to make it onto the golden trail scene. And I feel like it it can't you can't be that far away from you guys uh you know dominating
Golden Trail Series Course Tradeoffs
SPEAKER_01or getting these wins and and you know being uh kind of the top dogs in these races.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's definitely something I'm always aspiring for. Um it's like got heavy emphasis, I think, on the sub Ultra scene. Like it's just a really renowned, it gets a lot of spotlight kind of uh series. So I definitely want to keep competing in it. Um I think some of the races they pick are not my favorite types of races, though, so it's kind of hard. Like uh last year uh the race they picked was uh literally a sky race, and I was just joking, I was like, why is Golden Trail doing a sky race for their like final? Like this is a complete different series. Like if I wanted to do sky running, I'd go do the sky running series. But uh, I don't know. I think for the most part I enjoy Golden Trail series. Like some of the races, um, they try to add more excitement and have these like crazy technical ascents and descents. And I don't mind a little bit of technicality here and there. Like I think that's what makes it fun about trail running, is just because you're the fittest person, or or maybe you have the best red resume or pedigree, like it doesn't mean you're gonna win it because there's an aspect of uphill, downhill running, you know, all this other stuff. But um definitely the more technical downhill is just not quite my suit. So it's nice to have a little bit of technicality. I enjoy that aspect, but nothing like too crazy. So I kind of pick and choose my races for the most part this year, like just due to injury. Like it was like, okay, the only four races I can do are the last four, so we'll just send it and see what happens. And so far it's been good. Nice, nice, dude.
SPEAKER_01So on this trip, you've had your family with you. How how has it been traveling with the kids and and the wife and just having the whole the whole clan out with you?
SPEAKER_00It's been great. I don't know if you heard the hi daddy is what cue that question. They're uh I'm out here on the back porch and they're yelling at me from down below, but uh it's been a blast. So the last two years we've been able
Racing Europe With The Whole Family
SPEAKER_00to do this. We kind of make one big Europe trip. Last year we did uh Worlds out in Spain, and then we we had a little hopper flight over to Italy to do the Golden Trail World Finals. So we spent, I think, like maybe a little over three weeks, and then the year before it was like about four weeks, and this year it's gonna be about five weeks just because of the two Golden Trail and then OCC. So we try to make like one big family trip where we just come out here and have fun. And obviously, it's a bit of a sacrifice and it can be a bit stressful coming out with like three, four kids, uh, four kids the last two years and three the the previous year, but uh we make the most of it and we have fun and it's great.
SPEAKER_01It's gotta be so rewarding, dude. Like, and especially for them to get to see their dad like you know compete at the highest level and do really well at these races, it's gotta be inspiring for them, you know. And to see that at a young age, like who knows what they go on to do, you know, in anything in life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're uh I think we got some pretty talented kids. We'll see what they aspire and choose to do. Like we're not pushing anything in any direction. We we just want them to be active and enjoy what they do. But definitely they all love like to run. And uh they're always like when me and my wife are leaving the house, they're just like, hey, I want to run, Dad. And you just feel sad. You're like, I'm sorry, but I'm going uh pretty far. I'm going like, you know, 13, 14 miles. Like, I can do that. You're like, oh, I don't. But they love it. I think they've already got like the running bug in them, and uh, they really enjoy chasing around and cheering both me and mom on, and uh it's been super fun.
SPEAKER_01Will they be uh will they be like on course? Like will you have them like kind of hanging out with as crew uh throughout OCC or will they be at the finish line? How how do you how you guys set that up?
SPEAKER_00It kind of depends on the logistics of the race. Like in Austria it was nice because they were able to start at the bottom and cheer me on and then run over and take a tram up to the top and then cheer me on around the lake and then drop back down and watch me kind of finish. Uh Sierra Zenal, like man, it's like so crazy to try to get up and down that canyon. So um, oh, I don't know if that glitch. Uh up and down the canyon. So they just kind of hung out up top and watched uh flow track and watched whatever the live stream was. Um OCC, we'll see what they end up doing. They might try to like go out there and cheer a little bit, but um it's pretty hard when you're like a single parent. I feel like trying to get all four of the kids out and find somewhere to park, especially in Europe, just because it seems like parking is so hard in general, and we're in a big minivan that can fit all of us and all of our crap. So uh we'll see what happens. So nice, nice.
SPEAKER_01Well, dude, I don't want to take all your time. I I told you this wouldn't be pretty short and sweet, just a quick quick chat on OCC. Um, thanks for the catch up as far as everything goes. We'll have to do a long-term one. I really want to get like we'll have to do a long one so I get like your backstory and do like a full Christian Allen story one of these days. But uh I appreciate it, man. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thank you, James.
Wrap Up And Cedus Insoles
SPEAKER_00It was fun being on.
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