The Steep Stuff Podcast
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The Steep Stuff Podcast
BONUS Episode - UTMB Predictions with Nick Tusa
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UTMB week brings out the most honest kind of sports conversation: we have a stacked start list, a million storylines, and almost no certainty once the race hits the high climbs and the long night. Nick Tusa joins me for a focused UTMB and CCC preview where we argue through the men’s and women’s fields, call our shots, and explain what we think actually decides Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc when everyone is fit.
On the men’s side, we dig into the big questions around Jim Walmsley and Kilian Jornet lining up after Western States DNFs and why UTMB is a totally different test with more hiking, longer climbs, and way less room for error. We talk about Caleb Olsen’s upside as a mountain athlete, John Alban’s winning profile, and why names like Josh Wade, Hannes Namberger, Zach Miller, and Theodore Diente sit right on that edge between a career day and a hard blow-up. Then we make a clear call on who we think wins, including the case for Ben Diemon and the mental side of “closing” when the podium is in reach.
On the women’s side, it turns into one of the best matchups in trail running: Ruth Croft returning as defending UTMB champion against Courtney Dauwalter, who is always capable of rewriting what we think is possible. We also hit the depth behind them with Marianne Hogan, Abby Hall, Rachel Drake, and more, plus the wild card factor of limited UTMB experience across parts of the field.
We wrap with a CCC preview full of redemption and breakthrough potential, including why certain runners look ready to finally get over the hump. If you love UTMB predictions, ultrarunning strategy, and smart race coverage, hit subscribe, share this with your trail crew, and leave a rating and review so more people find the show.
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SPEAKER_01This is the SteamStuff Podcast. What's up, guys? Uh hey, before we get started, if you haven't already, whatever platform you're listening to this on, please hit that subscribe or follow button, whether that's Apple, Spotify, or YouTube. Those subscriptions go a super long way in being able to keep the podcast going and allowing me to continue to tell the stories of these amazing athletes and also do some of the race coverage and all the good stuff that we've been doing over the last few years. And also, if you haven't already, please give us a rating and a review if you haven't. Yeah, let us know what you guys think about the podcast and hope you enjoy this episode. Thanks so much for tuning in. All
Why This UTMB Year Feels Wild
SPEAKER_01right. Nick Tusa. Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_00Heck yeah, man. It's going great.
unknownCool.
SPEAKER_00UTMB week on the come up and just stoked.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I wanted to so I wanted to do this conversation as just like a little separate um little separate breakdown for UTMB to discuss around UTMB and CCC. Just because like I feel like this is one of those years where things are just so wild. We have so many players or individual players kind of in this race.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you you you sent me the race list, and I was just scrolling through with CCC and um and UTMB, and I was just like, I just had a big smile on my face. I was just so excited to see some of these guys out here.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01It's crazy, man. I anything that sticks out to you as far as like I find it the most interesting that Killian and Jim. Courtney will be lining up two after like a dominant um you know, dominant hard rock. You've got Jim after, you know, there's some storylines there with Jim after DNFing Western states. Uh Killian as well DNFing Western states. And Killian, I think, was in more pain than Jim. So it's the battle of the old guys here.
SPEAKER_00Now, one thing I will have to say about Killian is this is such a completely different race than and same with Jim too. It's such a completely different race than uh than a Western, so much more hiking involved, and that is Killian's bread and butter. So I could still see him showing up and and really throwing down. So we'll see.
Men’s Headliners Jim Kilian Caleb
SPEAKER_00Uh, but one name that really pops out to me that I'm honestly most excited for, I think, out of anyone here is um is Caleb Olsen. I know he's coming off of um somewhat of an injury earlier in the year, but like this is his dream race. We know we saw what he did at Western States last year. Uh I just I know that this is his his heart is in this race. He's a he's a mountain guy at heart. Really excited for him. I think Caleb can can be the next American to do this.
SPEAKER_01Really? Yeah, I don't know, man. Yeah, I was very iffy about Caleb. Um, I think he needs one, in my opinion, because um didn't have a great broken arrow, but that's not really his jam. I think it's still part of his build. We don't really know like where he was at. I know he was coming off an injury and then kind of working his way through things. Um, you know, ACG sponsored broken arrow, so I'm sure that's like, hey, come out and we'll, you know, we'll we'll put you up and you get to kind of hang out and do your thing. Um so I don't know. He was kind of back there in the VK, he was kind of back there in in kind of the whole thing. So yeah, I don't know. It's gonna be interesting. He's all had great finishes at CCC in the past before he became who Caleb, you know, Olsen is. So I think he's he's a mountain athlete, has the ability to do really well here. Um, it's just not just about who's the fittest on the day. I think there's a lot of aspects that go into this race. Right, right.
SPEAKER_00Um, another name, too, that I I gotta mention here, and I really think that again, we were talking last episode about um uh about how good UK athletes are out here. I mean, John Elban. I mean, yes, he did DNF last year. I think he figured some things out. That dude is a winner. If you scroll down his his DTB index and you see all uh he the dude wins, that's all he does. Um he's gonna be pushing for the podium. There's no way, there's no way he's not.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. I I don't know. So my pick of the men who kind of be in the orbit of who can do really well here. I think Jim. I think if Jim figured out his knee-hip thing, I think he he has the ability. Uh, because remember, he only has 60-something miles of western states in his legs. If it depends on how fast he got over it and was like, okay, I can put this behind me and I'm gonna get into mountain training. Um because it's a whole different modality, it's a whole different ability to do really well at a race like UTMB. But if he transitioned quickly, which we don't know, nobody knows anything. He doesn't keep his training public, he doesn't talk to anyone, uh, no one really knows. So, yes, in my opinion, I think Jim, I think Jim could pull off another year. I I I think this would be much harder fought than his uh 2023 win. It's hard to believe that it's already been since 2023, dude. Uh that he's done it. I don't think Killian's gonna I think Killian's gonna drop, in my opinion. I think Killian makes it maybe to uh I don't know. Let's see how he does on the the steep like because you go over La Fragère and you go through these steep ski descents, like almost like kind of like a cat track road. Um and you can see them in the live stream, like before they kind of hit La Frage. And uh are they gonna go through I can't remember if it's before or after, but anyway, you run before they run through the streets of La Fregère, um there's this whole uh you know ski descent and stuff like that. And hopefully his knee doesn't blow up by then. I I'm very curious to see like what happens with Killian. I I don't think he makes it past Cormayer, in my opinion. Uh maybe I'm full shit, but I I just don't I don't see it, you know. But he's gonna start. He's gonna start for sure. Why risk it? Yeah, I'm just really surprised to see him even like sign up, dude, or continue.
SPEAKER_00He's just he's so committed. He's well, I guess he didn't show up for uh tiers and all.
SPEAKER_01So I think we've gotten to the point where unless like does Jim need to be a hundred percent to win this race? Does Killian need to be a hundred percent? I think yes, I think you need to be very close to the Ben Diemon is coming for that ass, dude. He's coming to win. I don't know how much you follow Ben Diemon, but I mean obviously second place last year. Uh he got pushed to the brink by Christian Monogio
Podium Pressure Ben Josh John
SPEAKER_01at the Mont Blanc 90k and came in second. I think the dude has all the tools to win. I think the only last piece that he needs to figure out is a mental game because he hasn't been able to close. You know, Tom kind of got away from him last year and put 30 minutes into him close to the end, and you know, he was kind of in no man's land. Uh same thing, Monogio beat him by like 20 seconds at the Mont Blanc 90k. Um where can you find those 20 seconds, right? Like uh and same thing he had, I think Trans Vulcania, David Sinclair spanked him, um, and quite a few others. They all went under the course record. Um, so he's obviously very fit, but I think um it's it's this is the time you need to figure out a close. This is the time to win. Whereas Jim just has that ability, dude. I don't know what it is about Jim, but he has that like that it factor that he can close out a race. Um same thing with Hannes Nomberger. Like I think Hannes is very good. Um, but is he a top five guy or is he a podium guy? You know, will he take can he take that step forward into the podium and and we're or potentially you know win a race like this? It's a good question, right? You know, right.
SPEAKER_00And then you mentioned too earlier um when we were chatting uh Josh Wade, he was third last year. I mean, he's got it, he's right there.
SPEAKER_01I think I think this is a pivotal moment for guys like Josh Wade, right? Or and I think Ben as well. Will you take that step forward or will you let the moment get to you and take that step backwards? And you'll see a lot of guys have these great results, and then the next year they drop. And it's like, did you let the moment get to you? Did something, you know, was it more mental? What was it? Um, and so whereas I don't I think Ben is too good. Um, I don't know enough about Josh yet to make that call, you know. Um and I am interested in John Alban as well. I don't know if John Albin uh I don't think he can like screw up twice. Like last year was a really hard year for him at UTMB. Um the weather got to them going into corner.
SPEAKER_00The weather got to him.
SPEAKER_01I listened to his podcast, yeah. Yep. So which is crazy to think that a guy that lives in Norway Right Like that I mean for us, dude. We'd be totally fucked. Cooked, yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, I don't know. And Vincent Bulli Boulevard, I don't think Vincent, like, is he just in the race to just like show up because Hoka wants him to? Or is he?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'll see. What a story that would be, though. I being first person ever to win back the board.
SPEAKER_01Imagine he's the one to win the double. Jim's left, that's what it would be, dude.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. Uh, another person I did want to mention too, shout out Boulder, um, Boulder Boys, Drew Holman, you know, third last year at CCC. He that dude shows up when when it's time to show up, too. So I'm I'm really excited. And he was fifth at CCC in 2023. Um, he knows how to race out there uh in Shamini. He's been going out there every single year. Um, this is just another business trip for him. Um, so I think he can be right up there.
SPEAKER_01Like super. Oh I met him at uh Broken Arrow. I got a chance to chat with him for a bit. Um yeah, he's a super nice dude. Where does Zach Miller fit in all this? I I think uh I I have my prevailing theory on a lot of these guys that like cooked it at Western States. I just don't see it happening, dude. You're not running. I'm sorry. Sorry. Uh you're not running that fast, and uh, I'm sorry. Like, and also like I don't know, I peeped Zach's Strava, he's been in the springs. Um, his box's been okay, it hasn't been like spectacular like the last time where he got second to gym. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I mean, looking at his results, he's never done two big events this close together before. And you can probably guess why he doesn't do that because he burns every bit of the match when he's running. You see how he crossed the finish lines, he leaves it all out there. That's just the Zach way. It's it's incredible, it's so inspirational on how he runs races, but I just don't think it's fit for hundreds within two months of each other. Uh it's a great way to get rid of it.
SPEAKER_01Well, we'll see. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh do you know who Theodiente is? Theo diente. He was the race last year through 100k. Uh and fell back. Tom passed him, Ben passed him, ended up in third, then Josh passed him, he dropped. Um man, I don't really know what he's doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and here he is, there he is. Frenchman. Yep.
SPEAKER_01He dropped, I think it was after the Grand Cole for Rey. Like once they touched down. And uh, it's that area. It's a beautiful shot that you always see by kind of the lake and stuff like that. Um Diodiente is an interesting guy. He's uh I think done very well at the Mont Blanc 90k before in the past. Obviously, race. Um someone that has all the ability in the world. He's kind of uh like a cocky guy, he's like very uh kind of a trash talkie. I like him. Is that Sabrance for Brooke? I think Brooks bad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, look, look at his results. It seems like he's like he's really um done his career, it has just been a perfect trajectory. It's just been starting out with like the the lot shorter 20k races, winning there, and then just making the jump each year and each year. And who knows, he could be ready. He's he's done enough hundred milers now, I feel like, where we will see.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00What's funny is you just said he's cocky. I'm just looking at his UTMD profile and it says intelligent, humble. It says humble.
SPEAKER_01So I I just like people that have personality and uh absolutely in the sport.
Picks And The Ben Diemon Case
SPEAKER_01All right, I'm gonna go picks. I'm just gonna say I think I I think Ben Diemon wins it this year. I don't I don't know if Jim if Jim can get out of Cormayer, Jim can win the race. Question is can Jim get out of Cormayer? Um but I do think it's gonna be very hard to beat Ben Dieman this year. I think Ben Diemon is gonna be the guy. Um, I think the fitness looks good. Dude, his Strava is beautiful. He did a Chick. Did you look? Check this out. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna glaze Ben Dieman right now. Uh I don't follow anybody on Strava except for Ben Diemon. Um that's awesome. Dude, he did this run. Uh where is it? No, hold on, hold on, everybody. Sorry, deal with me here. He did a 46.7 mile run from Chamani to Cormayer. He ran it in eight hours, eighteen minutes, 46.7 miles, 15,354 feet. Wow. Yeah. That's a run. Yeah, pretty dope, dude. Pretty dope. It's all an ibec too.
SPEAKER_00When was this? When was this? August 9th. Last week. Okay. That's that's perfect. Yeah. Looks like one, two, three weeks out. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then he didn't what looks like the Mont Blanc VK route to s today. Uh just casually. In Chiang? The Sham VK? It was not the Sham VK, it's the Southern VK or the other speed uh thing. It looks like he was just chill hiking. So climbing legs. Ben is yeah, Ben's a beast, dude. Um so I'd say I'd say Ben Demon wins it. I mean, I'm very curious to see where Jim fits into the whole thing. I maybe we're just discounting him because of Western states, and and you know, maybe he's able to kind of like pull up.
SPEAKER_00It's we have no information. What can we do? We're just shooting at the hip here. I mean, he hasn't said a word, right?
Women’s Race Ruth Versus Courtney
SPEAKER_01All right, let's check out the women. Um really good female lineup, dude. Riff Croft returns after her first win last year, coming for the second championship, and she's in the race with Courtney DeWalter.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Ruth versus Courtney.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, Courtney, I don't know, dude. Courtney had a great hard rock, but like hard rock's not really competitive. I'm just gonna put that one out there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's just really hard to execute that race. And I feel like if your fueling is down at that race and you I know she went through some lows, but man, if you can figure out that race, I think UTMB is a lot easier of a race than hard rock. You know who else? It's so much more altitude. Rachel Duncan. Oh finally, finally.
SPEAKER_01I think we're and Rachel Drake better short trail runner, Rachel Drake as. But I mean, yeah, Rachel Drake had a great western states. Like, I think I would think Rachel Drake would be a block for top ten for this race. Yeah, and Blandine. I mean, this is yeah, Marianne Hogan as well. Uh foregoing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Abby Hall. Yeah. Fu Zhao, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, Marian Hogan's had I mean, I think she like broke her ankle foot something, and still was able to like finish the race after like catching uh this was like the year Jim won. Um I think it might have been Katie Scheid's second win, something like that. Uh it's either Katie Scheide's first or second win, but it was the year Jim won 2023. And uh yeah, Marianne caught her on the cold uh call uh uh called Grand Cole Foray. Cold crowd. Yeah, Grand Cole Fore. And uh I think past her at one point in time, Katie was able to retake the lead, but Marianne like ran a great second place in that race. So Marianne's very good, you know. So that I think last year was a little uh thin, a little thinner, if you will, but I think this year is is is pretty stacked women's field, in my opinion. Yeah, wow, Riley Brady, uh Fujiao Zhang, Ruth Croft, Marianne Hogan, Abby Hall, Blonde Dane, Lucy Bartolomew, Shao Colano, Fiona Pascal, Martina Bellomosi, Henrietta Albin. Henrietta's won TGC before. Yeah, she's not um crusher. Jasmine Latin.
SPEAKER_00Well, one thing one thing I'm noticing here based off of all these people, there are not a lot of like not a lot of experience here. There's not a lot of people that have actually ran this race, which is kind of surprising to me.
SPEAKER_01Well, people that have run and kind of dropped before.
SPEAKER_00Um I think we're gonna see a really fun race as a result of that. I think some people are gonna go out a little crazy. Yeah, blow-ups. Yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh I don't know, dude. What do you think with uh like I where does Rachel Undriken fit into this race, dude? Because like she's really dominant and she's very good. She's just never raised. Because I'm not like a big 200 guy. Oh, no, just I've just seen bias because like she's obviously on the American scene. And what does she stack against like a Marianne Hogan, you know?
SPEAKER_00I think she's still a little bit below Marianne Hogan. Marianne Hogan just has so much experience, especially just racing the best of the best in the world, and where you know uh Rachel hasn't. She really hasn't. The only time she really ever did was was Tianti. And I mean she proved something there, you know, third is incredible there. But Corney did beat her there.
unknownYeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Courtney did beat her there, yeah. So that was I think that was her way of being like, hey, like I'm here still, like I'm I can compete with the best in the world. I think she wanted to prove something with that, and so I think she's gonna come into this race with a big time chip on her shoulder for sure, which that could benefit you or that could that could hurt you.
SPEAKER_01Well, I wouldn't happen last year because it seemed like she just lost all power. And was that a fueling issue? Like this, I'm talking about Corney, yeah, yeah. Was that a fueling issue? What was that? You know, like we don't know.
SPEAKER_00I think I think uh I think that weather was so brutal. I think that weather really like killed a lot of people. Um it seemed like going through the night after that is where it really really hurt her because she was in such a good spot, and then I remember checking back like the next morning, and I was like, oh no, she's she's like battling to finish at this point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she fell all the way. I mean, she was in the lead, yeah, and then got past, dude. Like, I uh this is another where I bring up the father time thing. Like, I think Courtney is over 40 now, Spoiler. And you can do well in your 40s. Like, I I think we've seen flashes though. We've seen flashes of old Courtney this year. So maybe last year was a fluke. I don't know. I can never doubt that Walter, dude. Courtney's too too. She's done too much and I have too much respect.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I feel like if she wouldn't have done maybe if she wouldn't have done Coca Dona, I don't know how much that was still in her legs or not. I I heard she recovered. I think she said on a podcast she recovered really quick from that. Or maybe if she did too hard rock, I'd maybe have a little bit more confidence in her. But I still have to have confidence in her. It's her, Ruth. It's gotta be. It's gotta be.
SPEAKER_01I think Ruth is gonna be hard to beat. And you gotta remember too, dude, when you win races like this, the confidence level you get. And I think Ruth is gonna come in. I think Ruth coming back is a champion. Way more confident uh going in. Like for instance, like Katie Scheid, you know, she came back and wiped the floor and did very well in her second, she did better than in her second try. Um after multiple times of trying. I I yeah, I I I'd hate to think that uh, you know, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Ruth looks like she's coming into this very fresh. She did a 58k in May, is what I'm seeing, and nothing this summer. So it's probably just been a full summer of focusing on UTMB. Yeah, probably.
SPEAKER_01They're like way of doing things with uh some of the weighted best stuff. And like I listen, man, like I've gotten, you know, you learn all that stuff from Jack Kenzel. Like there's some really interesting stuff that they figure out and put into it. So uh so yeah, I that's all I have for UTMB. I mean, uh if you want to pick, we can throw some picks out there. I don't care, it's totally up to you.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. Uh yeah, no. Um I think we touched on it pretty well. I I think it's gonna be uh Corney versus versus Ruth. And then throw Marian Elgin in there.
SPEAKER_01Do we care enough about CCC to comment?
SPEAKER_00Um let me take a look at it really quick here.
Experience Weather Fueling And Age
SPEAKER_00I know I was really excited when I saw Oh, Jen's lining up. Oh wow. Okay. That's exciting. Um Jen, lick her. I I didn't realize that. Oh. Like soon.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. Like, are they?
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Maybe not then. Maybe, maybe, maybe this isn't. But last time this was updated, August 11th. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, I guess we're what? August 29th.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I guess they're well David Sinclair. I I'm super stoked for him. He's one of the best in the world. And he was second last year, and he's been knocking on the door. He's ready. Dan Jones. Dan Jones ran Western, didn't he? He did D D NF though at Western, so yeah, he's he's coming for some redemption here. I think he's gonna be right up there with him. Thomas Carden, he just ran Western too. Wow, he's got a lot of this back-to-back stuff. I I don't know who popularized this, but uh man, that's uh I mean Eli had me too. I'm so excited for Eli. Eli's gotta have this one. He's got to. He's gotta.
SPEAKER_01Do you think Eli can get over get over the hump?
SPEAKER_00I think he can. I think this is it. I think I think he learned. I think he's learned a lot. I think he's came a long way. I've been listening to him and Tabor on the podcast, and it's it's a really inspiring story. Like, I don't think people really realize like what those two went through. Um, they went through a really, really tough time just like trying to figure out their bodies, just trying to figure it out, not having answers. It's it sucks when you go to a doctor and like they don't have a diagnosis for you, and you have to try to figure it out and talking to so many different people. And I think he figured it out. I really think he did.
SPEAKER_01I he had uh podcast about the belt, belt versus vest.
SPEAKER_00Is that yes, yep, because I don't want to get it? Yep, that was a big thing. Yep, yep. But he did just run the Never Summer, was it the 60K or was it the 100k? I think it was the 60k. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he ran that really well. That's an extreme for people that are in the know in Colorado, really, really, really hardcore. Sure, the competition might not have been great, but I think it was a great um just a supportive effort for him. And I think that was something that he needed to kind of get that confidence back. It's like if you can race like that at that kind of altitude, coming down is just it's you have so much confidence, so much. Yeah. Um I don't know, dude.
SPEAKER_01Jeff Multi. I would have put that as far as like the American. David Sinclair is really good, dude. Yeah, I would say those. David Sinclair was supposed to line up for Western States this year and did not. So he's fresh. David Sinclair
CCC Names Redemption And Dark Horses
SPEAKER_01is true.
SPEAKER_00That's right. He got injured. That's right. He pulled out like last minute.
unknownDang, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, they still have Seth Ruin on here. He was literally just in the hospital, so no. Um David Liberty's there or something. Yeah, I think it was something like that. Anthony Castallis. Probably Wow, there's a lot of there's a lot of people from the doubles. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think people. Signed up for this way earlier in the year, and it's just we're gonna see a lot of these people maybe DNS.
SPEAKER_01The CCC double with Western States can be done. That can be done, absolutely. Yeah, and same with the code of your show. You know, and that's something I didn't talk about when we were talking about OCC was Francesco Poopy, and like I guess I I don't know, like I'm sure Poopy can can do it. I had something equipped here about Poopy, but uh who else we got here?
SPEAKER_00Eric Lapuma. Yeah, a lot of Americans are going out there. I'm seeing Ryan Becker's going out there. That's kind of fun. That's cool. Ryan Becker would be my dark horse. That's that's cool. He hasn't raised much here either. Oh no, he was injured. Yeah, he was injured and didn't end up going to world. That's right. Ryan Graph. Since Barry's still on here. Yeah, they need to update some of this. Get him out of the hospital, man. Come on. You can do it. Well, he's gonna be there, but he won't be racing, it sounds like.
SPEAKER_01Jasmine. I will say for UTMB, Jasmine has had a fantastic block. Uh oh, yeah, we didn't mention Jasmine. Yeah, I think Jasmine has a strong capability of doing a top 10 of top 10 performance there. I'm gonna have to trust him because I gotta feed my dogs. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay, yeah. Alright. Well, we can uh we can probably wrap it up.
SPEAKER_01I just want to go ahead and fun little CCC band too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Sweet. Nick Tusa, thanks for coming on, dude. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Absolutely. It was fun. It was good to talk. I'm not now I'm just more hyped on this than I already was, so when I talk about it, it just gets me stoked.
SPEAKER_01So awesome. All right, man.
Cetus Insoles Sponsor Break
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