The Steep Stuff Podcast
All Things Trail, Mountain & Sky Running
The Steep Stuff Podcast
Finlay Grant - Pre UTMB ETC Interview
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
A race where the “course” is more like a suggestion sounds fun right up until you’re waist-deep in a peat bog, freezing, and trying to decide which ridge will get you to the next checkpoint fastest. That’s the world of UK fell running, and Finlay Grant joins us to explain why it creates a uniquely durable kind of mountain athlete.
We talk about Finlay’s path from school cross-country into fell running, then onto the European skyrunning scene, including his build toward ETC and the longer skyraces on his calendar. He breaks down what training looks like when most of your runs are already technical and steep: elevation-heavy weeks for leg durability, three to four hard sessions when he’s sharpening up, and just enough faster running to keep speed online without living on the track.
Finlay also tells the story of racing well in broken shoes held together with duct tape and how that moment helped open the door to working with Scarpa. Along the way, we compare the grassroots culture of fell races to the big production feel of modern trail events, and we get into the real logistics of balancing work shifts with travel, recovery, and racing ambitions.
If you’re into trail running, skyrunning, mountain running, or you’re simply curious about route choice racing and the toughest terrain traditions in the UK, this one will expand your view of what “technical” can mean. Subscribe or follow, share the episode with a mountain-running friend, and leave a rating and review so we can keep telling these stories.
Follow Finlay on IG - @fingrant456
Use code SteepStuff for 20% your cart on Sidas.us
Follow James on IG - @jameslauriello
Follow the Steep Stuff Podcast on IG - @steepstuff_pod
Follow Sidas USA on IG - @sidas_usa
Quick Subscribe And Review Ask
SPEAKER_01What's up, guys? Uh hey, before we get started, if you haven't already, whatever platform you're listening to this on, please hit that subscribe or follow button, whether that's Apple, Spotify, or YouTube. Uh those subscriptions go a super long way in being able to keep the podcast going and allowing me to continue to tell the stories of these amazing athletes and also do some of the race coverage and all the good stuff that we've been doing over the last few years. And also, if you haven't already, please give us a rating and a review if you haven't. Um, let us know what you guys think about the podcast and hope you enjoy this episode. Thanks so much for tuning in.
Meet Finlay Grant And The Weather
SPEAKER_01All right, FinLight Grant, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast. How's it going, man?
SPEAKER_00Uh I'm good, thank you. Good. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. Uh nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, nice to meet you as well. Stoked to chat. Yeah, I was going through uh the ETC start list and uh I was just looking at like guys and gals that I haven't had on the podcast yet or haven't chatted with, and you were one of the first ones that came up and was like, you know what, let's you're you're a potential favorite for the race to do very well. Uh you've had success there in the past. So I was like, well, this is a great opportunity for uh for a conversation. So how's your uh how's your day going so far?
SPEAKER_00Uh good. Um very soggy as it always is in England. Um I've been doing a sort of shortish long run today. Uh I've got a day off work. So yeah, I've been enjoying the best of the English weather in mountains have to offer.
SPEAKER_01How is it? Is it uh like what are your summers like kind of over there? Is it always just kind of like soggy and wet?
SPEAKER_00Do you get a lot of uh dry days or previously there was a lot of soggy and wet days. Um in like as I was growing up, it's getting more and more dry and hot continually nowadays. Uh I've just moved to the northwest corner of the UK though, which is regardless of whether it's a drought everywhere else or not, it's it rains three, four days a week here anyway. Whereas back where I've been growing up, sort of two, three hours south of it, I don't think we've had rain in two, three months now. So there's a bit of a divide in the country between where I'm living and where I have been. So it's it's still very wet here, but hasn't been very wet in general for the UK and whole.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. So for when it comes to racing and training, the worse the weather, the more comfortable you feel. Like, do you prefer bad weather?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I guess. I mean, I spend so much time in bad weather, it does kind of suit me. I'm perfectly I'm not phased by it because yeah, I spend a lot of time in bad weather. Um I do tend to race quite well in the heat. I'm not really sure why. It just seems to happen quite well for me. I've got a good feeling of what I can do without blowing up. So I tend to pass quite a lot of people late on in hot races because they've overdone it.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. Uh yeah, that dude, that's probably genetic, especially because it doesn't get super hot where you are.
SPEAKER_00So no, it's not like I'm doing any heat training or anything. So that's that's interesting. It's a good tool.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I'm quite happy about that. Going in going into ETC for 2026, I mean, especially after having you know success here, you had an eighth place finish last year. Yeah, um, you've beaten some really, I mean, fantastic at like Dan Kurtz, who I revere, he's an American on the Brooks team that I revere is like one of the one of the best young athletes that we have in our country. Uh so you've had a lot of success at this race. Um, what's the Stoke level and how's the body feeling kind of going into this race specifically?
SPEAKER_00Uh good at the moment. I've had a good kind of quiet six weeks, two months or so where we've been kind of got back to training again. Um yeah, ETT and then a few sky races later in the season in Europe. Um yeah, I remember Dan last year. Uh we were quite close together through a lot of the race, and then I was uh fortunately not to get past him in sort of the last kilometre, a few hundred uniters or so. But yeah, we were quite close the whole way around. I didn't know who know who Dan was at the time, but uh yeah, having since sort of followed him afterwards, it's he's yeah, he seems like he's quite good on the US scene.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah, he's a like one of the most talented athletes that we've got kind of on the short trail scene. So he's uh yeah, so for anyone to do really well against him, I'm always uh always has my respect and and uh I think it's quite cool. Um all right, so the body's feeling good, the block is going
How Finlay Became A Mountain Runner
SPEAKER_01well. Maybe maybe give me like uh, you know, because I I don't want to get too much into like the boring stuff about like pre-race sensations and stuff like that, but maybe give me the back your background story. Like how did you get into running? Um, how long have you been running with Scarpa? Give me give me some of the uh the background on that.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Uh I've been running since I was nine, ten or so. Uh started how a lot of people in, at least in the UK, yes, and started sort of like school cross-country and stuff. Then discovered I was alright at that, so joined my local athletics club, did a few years more of that. I was maybe 15, 16 or so, realised that I was kind of good at the longer, hillious stuff as far as cross and track were concerned. So tried what in the UK the equivalent of that is fell running as opposed to mountain running mainly. So realised I was quite good at fell. Once I got to sort of 18, 19, then you got the opportunity for international best at Europeans and worlds for mountain running. I was fortunate to make a few of those teams and just kind of sort of kept chipping away and snowballing and getting a bit better each year. Um so then now I do quite a lot of sky races and stuff on the European circuit. Uh still do a lot of power running when I'm at home in the UK. Um yeah, that's kind of sort of my background story, I'd guess.
Duct Tape Shoes To Scarpa Sponsor
SPEAKER_00Uh I was picked up by Scarp uh sort of end of 2023, roughly. Um I done the YCC actually, which is the same course as ETC. Uh and I was uh second overall and first from the 23 or whatever naming category they had for it back then. Um and yeah, I was running in a pair of a battery pair of Merrills that because I'd been out in the outs interrogate for about a month, I'd broken them on my first race, but not brought any other shoes with me. So I was holding them together with duct tape. Uh so I I finished finished the RTC in yeah, sec second, I was quite happy with that, and then I had to sort of take my shoe off and pull the safety pin out with my teeth because it had like dislodged near the end of the race and sort of to like sort of jab into the side of my foot. And I don't know who was watching, but obviously somebody was watching and sort of went, eh, he's run quite well. He also appears to be in a particularly knackered pair of shoes that he might like some shoes. Uh so Scarfa then got in touch and yeah, tried some of that stuff and decided, yeah, I'd quite like it. And then I've been with them since. And yeah, they like the stuff that they've made and they do do very well by me in general.
SPEAKER_01I love it. It's a great brand. I mean, and they have uh it I like their their lineup as far as the team goes. Like they they uh they have a good mix of athletes, but a lot of good skyrunners. Like yourself, uh Luca Del Perro, like there's quite a few solid Skyrunner uh athletes or skyrunning athletes kind of on their team lineup.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they do quite a lot of yeah, generally more skyrunning focused athletes is I mean the brand's background is sort of more mountaineering and that style of equipment, so a logical extrapolation from that. If you're going to the trail team, it'd be through the skyrunning team, I guess. It's kind of how I imagine the brand has come at this from a long-term strategy point of view. And yeah, me, Blue Caniel Antelonley, uh Lorenzo Balchiami, and they have to there's women on the team as well who also do mainly skyrunning. Uh yeah, I I can see why they do that. They are expanding into more general trail running as well and the ultra scene with uh Petrafrano and stuff. Um yeah, I'd say sky running is definitely kind of the sort of core of most of the athletes that uh support the Buscalpha.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
What Fell Running Really Is
SPEAKER_01Would you say on your side, because I I guess uh you're probably the second, I'd say probably the second felunner I've had. I had George Foster in the podcast about two years ago, or coming up on two years ago now. Um, and he gave a great breakdown of felrunning and kind of talked about it. Do we would you say you identify more as a felner? Um, I know you say you do a lot of felunning, but maybe maybe talk to the audience about what felrunning is a little bit more. Um because to the American audience, they're like, what is that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh I'd say I definitely identify as more of a felrunner um at heart. Uh I would love to do more fell running uh if it was an international thing, it it very much isn't, it's very much within a few small areas of the UK. Um and I I like that most. Obviously, I can turn that skill set to things like Sky Running quite well. So I do. Um so yeah, fell running is it's a version of mountain and hill running in north, mainly northwest, but generally northern UK. Um in sort of our wet, muddy, boggy hills. And it's kind of halfway between mountain ring and orienteering, you could say. So it's often no set route. Uh you'll just have a series of checkpoints you have to visit. So they'll often be hill summits or river crossings or something to that uh for your kind of prescribed route. So you'll run between them and it's any route choice you like between the between the different checkpoints. So you often end up with people running great uh greatly varying distances or routes between points because someone might deem that it's quicker to go up and over or round something. Um yeah, it's it's a very small, non-commercialized local uh scene, so there's no like all the races are very cheap to enter, it's all kind of done by volunteers. It's it's a very nice community. Um it's it's a very different world when you go to a UTMB where it's all the bells and whistles, there's lots of money going around, lots of brands are putting a lot of marketing effort and designs into UTMB and releases. The far running world is very quiet, very small. Uh you'll you'll line up in a field that gives it dated time. Uh the arm the race organizer will shout go at a random moment, off you go, and then it's first one back wins. There's no there's no fame, there's no glory, there's no money. It's it's just a very nice, simple grassroots sport.
SPEAKER_01That's what it's all about. I like that. I like that. I almost like that better. I don't know. Like the uh all the bells and whistles are definitely fun. Yeah, they're fun for some things, like the bells and whistles, but at the very core of it, it's like, what's your why? Why do you do this? Yeah. And you know, and I think that's really cool. It's very noble. And you know, if it's no frills and it's just, you know, throwing down because that you love it, it's uh it's pretty
Bogs, Peat, And Strength Running
SPEAKER_01cool. Um talk to me a little bit about the bogs, dude. I've heard the bogs can be treacherous.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, there's certain areas that are very boggy. Where I come from originally is very hills that aren't as big as they are here. Not that here is big hills, they're just bigger. But where I come from is very boggy, very heathery. Uh it's peat, so it's sort of I'm not sure what peat is originally made of. It's like old it's it's acidic soils that hold a lot of water. Yeah, you're your canopy. It's like sort of anchor to shin deep mud for a lot of equivalent for a lot of it. You're randomly running along, and then it suddenly goes from shin deep to waist deep. It's bleak, it's misty, it's cold, it's wet. It's it's a very different style of running to uh yeah, anything we get on on the continent or America, South America, Africa. It's yeah, very different style of running. It's a lot more strength-based, I guess, I will say. Um I would quite like to see a lot of the big international guys come over and try it. It would be quite funny to watch.
SPEAKER_01They'd get wrecked.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't think they'd do too well, but it would be a good spectator sport.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No, I definitely would dude. I mean, I feel like it would be sick to have uh like a worlds or some sort of big uh event over in some way, shape, and form, to see, you know, to showcase some of the beautiful lands and areas over there. I think that would be very cool. That would be fun. Plus, yeah, to see guys get totally destroyed on the bugs, I think would be it would be kind of fun.
Training Style For ETC Speed
SPEAKER_01Um for a race like ETC, what has your training been like? Are you been hitting a ton of volume? Do you do a lot of workouts? Are you mostly on the trails and kind of uh running on more technical stuff? Because this is a pretty fast race. Yeah. Um what does your training look like for something like this? Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um for me personally, um, the way I kind of approached the last few weeks of this sort of training block is the race the scary's been doing after this, at least for the first couple of weeks, are definitely on the longer end for me, like more on the over 30k type of distance, 30 to 40k. So I've kind of been going with an approach of more volume and long runs for prepping towards those, and then the sessions I've been doing are uh higher intensity as that tends to find between balance that as a balance works well that I'm then sharp enough ready to do something like ETC, but I've then obviously got the base ready for uh the scarists that I'm doing in a few weeks. If I was a go train purely for ETC, probably slightly less volume. Um but I'm I do find I'm generally quite durable in a way whereby I can do quite a few sessions a week. So I usually do three, sometimes four if I'm trying to go for really sharp stuff, hard sessions a week. Um and then as long as the training I do is quite elevation heavy, I can get away with uh supposed way of putting this. Um if I do elevation-heavy training, it gives my sort of muscles a degree of durability to then handle um yeah, being able to do those sessions and absorb it quite well. I've found I'm not really sure how I've managed to end up doing this, but over the course of my various years of training, I've found that's quite an effective way. Um all the running around here is quite technical, so there's not very much uh faster running to begin with. Um I haven't done much directed speed, like road sessions or track sessions or anything. Um I just do a little bit when I'm doing a session, a normal kill session, I just do some faster bits at the end, maybe some minute reps or two minute reps or something on the road. And I find that just keeps my speed ticking over. Um but yeah, it's main mostly technical running because that's just what's available to me around here. And then I've done a bit more heavy on the mileage, but that's directed less towards ETC and more the races I'm doing in the weeks afterwards.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Do you do any cross-training? Are you like big on the bike at all or anything like that?
SPEAKER_00Um I do do an amount of cross-training. Uh it varies massively week to week as to how much like cycling I'm doing. It's usually cycling if I am doing anything. Um I do quite like that, but like varies a lot as I don't like riding in the bad weather very much. So if there's a week where there's better weather, I'm more likely to do more bike riding. Um, but it also depends on what I'm doing work-wise and what sessions I'm doing as to whether I can work it into my schedule or not. But I do include craft training. It's not kind of a very varied basis to how much I'm doing. I don't have a scheduled two days a week, I'm only on the bike or anything.
SPEAKER_01Interesting.
Skyrace Plans And Long Term Goals
SPEAKER_01Do you um so what are you getting ready for then besides after ETC? Are you doing what do you have planned as far as uh what Skyraces?
SPEAKER_00Uh I'm doing Maggie Sky Race and Gulbenususium in September. And then there's the U23 Series final in October, which is very similar distance to ETC. So I'll probably do a sort of rinse and repeat of this last month in preparation for that in October. And then the senior Skyrim Skyrim World Series final, I can't remember the name of it now off the top of my head, but that's at the start of November, and that's season done for me. So into our season.
SPEAKER_01Do you like switching, like not switching back and forth, but do you like uh doing both, like the U-23 as well as the seniors and racing against both?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, I do to be fair. Um that's sort of like 10 mile distance, 10 miles to 15 miles, I do quite like the sort of shorter, sharper intensity you get from that. Um I'm learning to uh do better at the longer races. I quite like going out that sort of time and distance if it's a nice day in the hills anyway. But I've not done as much racing of that of late, but I'm sort of more longer term looking towards sort of the maybe the 40k race at worlds next year. And in future years, again, more likely to go towards the 40k than I will the classic in future editions. So kind of doing some longer sky races in preparation for that as a long-term goal, so I can be better prepared for that when that comes around.
SPEAKER_01Did uh does something like Kima or like old for instance, like old tracks extreme this week, like do either of those interest you? Because the old tracks I know is brutal, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh yes, they did interest me. Uh I didn't think I'd be able to get the time off work, so I I didn't even really try. Um I've done the course of old tracks. I've been around a couple of days before the race three, four years ago because I was in the area, and it is a really it's a really tough course, but it's a very strong course. I'd like to see that. Uh chemo, I've never been to that area or around any of the course before, but it does look pretty thick. Um I'm less I'd say I'm less good at the general sort of boulder hopping that you have a lot of in chema. Um my preference is for slightly more runnable terrain than that. But chemo being chemo, you you want to do it at some point. So at some point in my career, I'll inevitably end up doing chemo because it's one you want you want to tick off, really.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, and it's so few people can get into it and it's it's always a headache. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I feel like even if you like you don't like the stuff, like I would still I didn't realize that there was like shorter distances for it. Like I know there was like one lesser.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a while. I've got some friends doing the 20, I think it's 27k. Um I've got some friends doing that this year. Um that that was kind of on the cards of something I might do, but then sort of knocking my season when I was needing time off and stuff, I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be able to get it. It's it's not realistically gonna be something that can like wang wangle with work, so it'll have to wait for another year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
Balancing Work With Racing Travel
SPEAKER_01How is it for you to balance work with being a professional athlete?
SPEAKER_00Is it is it hard for you to be able to kind of do both or it was a bit of a challenge while I was working in uh as an engineering apprentice, because I've I had uh obviously just sort of standard amount of time off, which is better for me in Europe than it is than for you in the US. Um, but there's still only so many days and my boss wants me in for this, that, and the other. So there was a bit of difficulty trying to get time off for races. Um I'm working with post offices part-time and they're quite good with shifts. So if I need sort of Friday, Saturday, Sunday off to go and do a race in a quick whistle drop tour type thing, because I only work three, four days a week. If I sort of pre-arrange that with them, um I can usually wanna it so I'd work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then I go off and do my race and then come back and work next week. Um, so it's looking like it should be alright, uh, hopefully.
SPEAKER_01Um, it's hard over here. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's tough in America, like because we have such limited time off, and it's like a the the culture's weird here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I'm happy I'm very much on this side of the pond. Although we still only have a limited amount of time off, we still get considerably more than it is in the States, and the culture's much better for the other.
SPEAKER_01I like how you I like how you guys call vacation holiday. It's pretty dope. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh man.
Bucket List Races And Winning ETC
SPEAKER_01Well, dude, any any uh probably last question. Actually, I got a couple more questions left for you, but I'd say a second to last one. Any any bucket list races? Like, do you want to do like Zagama series and all one day? Any of those figures? Or are you just more of a skyrunner?
SPEAKER_00I have a very long bucket list of races. Um I do actually have a list somewhere buried in my phone. Um the gamer is definitely on there. Uh I've I'm thinking I might try and have a go at Ziaz and L next year. Uh so I'm thinking of doing a bit of a speed plot through July for some other races anyway. Um I've done the junior race, I've won that at Ziaz and L, so I've I've done some of the course in a race before, and I've run all of the course in one capacity or another over the years. So it's it's definitely a race I'd like to try and have a crack at and do well. But I also know from many friends that have done it that trying to get it right is very difficult, so it might take a few goes. Um yeah, I definitely want to do the gamma. There's a very long list of sky racers. What do I want to do? I feel like they're they're roll escaping me now, but I have a very long list that I kind of look at each year and go, if I want to do this, this, and this uh this series, then can I do this one as well? So like I want to do Juliet this year, which is a um reasonably big race in Italy, that's sometimes part of the masterin' World Cup. Um so I managed to me and some friends usually go out and watch some of the last week of the Tour de France in the Alps. Um so that the race this year was at the very end of the Tour de France weekend. So that's perfect. I can go from we watched Alt Dues one day, I travelled to the race the next day, did the race, and then went home after that. So that was nice to take that one off the bucket list. Um so it's just kind of looking.
SPEAKER_01Alright, last question. What would it mean for you to win a race like this? I mean you've had a lot of success in a race uh you know here before. Um yeah, what would it mean to to get the dub here?
SPEAKER_00Take my hat off if I would we can buy any of them because they're all really that would be very favorite on that. I know how to face it and I'm reasonably confident we can imagine how to do it. I like it.
SPEAKER_01Well Finlay, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was great to finally get to meet you, have a chat, and uh we'll have we'll have to do a longer one sometime down the road. So I appreciate it. Nice talking to you. Yeah, appreciate it, man. Bye.
Foot Care Sponsor And Discount Code
SPEAKER_01Guys, how's your feet? Like seriously, uh huh. How's uh how are your feet doing? Um I'm sure if you're listening to this, you're a runner or an athlete of some kind, uh, in one way or another. And as most athletes do, everybody struggles with injury one way or another, and foot care is like one of the most important things when it comes to injury mitigation or just dealing with injuries in general. Um, everything from planar fasciitis, peroneal issues, uh, a lot of people deal with blisters in the sport. Uh kind of the list goes on. It's a great opportunity for me to talk about our partner, Cetus US. Um, I've been partnering with them for a couple years now, and man, the products have just gone such a long way for me as an athlete personally. Um couple months back, I'd been dealing with some peroneal issues and some planter issues on my left foot, and uh got hooked up with some of the Cetus insoles. Um the trail three feet, and man, it went such a long way in helping me rehab that foot and just helped a ton. Um, on top of that, big fan of the socks and big believer in the socks as well. I use them all the time because they're amazing. Uh, but in all seriousness, I'm sure you've seen like Jim Walmsley, Hidden Hawks, and then you know, some of the best women in the sport, like Robin Lesh, um, or even on the ski side, uh Jesse Diggins rocking uh the seat as feet. And um, for me personally, it's the run anatomic comfort. I absolutely love those socks. Um, it's got reinforced protection, it's got a great grip strip to keep the sock from kind of moving within uh the shoe. It's breathable and it's got great protection, especially for technical trails for your heels and your toes. And uh above all else, it's breathable, so it's not gonna stink too bad. Uh, my wife definitely gives uh thumbs up when it comes to that. So I don't have two stinky feet or stinky socks. So if you haven't already, go online, check out CDUS.us, and if you find something you like, use code Steep Stuff. It's good for one use only, it's gonna get you 20% off your car and uh giving you guys the hookup. So hope you enjoy it. Check it out, CDS.us insoles and socks, they've got the best in the game, and then you can't get it.
