Taking A Mistress: The Epitome of "Willingly Guided"

When you think of a champion reiner, the words "chill, sweet, and forgiving" are probably not at the top of the list to describe them, but that's exactly what "Romeo" is! He is the perfect blend of talent and temperament to juggle his non-pro owner Bevin Zimmerman and Open trainer Jesse Gentile without batting an eye. As the "picture of 'willingly guided,'" Romeo does exactly what he's told and nothing more, but as Bevin has learned, that has its challenges for someone who is learning! But when things click, magic happens and Romeo shines.

Transcript

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(Kaitlin) Welcome to Inside Equine Minds, a podcast where I, Kaitlin Hendry, meet with trainers, riders and grooms to dive deep inside the minds of the most successful horses in various disciplines. We'll take you behind the scenes from the horse's perspective to learn about how these horses are trained and managed in a way that strengthens their mental game and fuels their success. This podcast is brought to you by EqPI, or Equine Performance Identities, which is a personality profiling tool to help you understand your horse at an individual level. An EqPI profile provides information about your horse's individual needs and motivations so you can manage and work with them in a way that brings out their best. An EqPI profile can also inform breeding and sales by providing information about temperament to ensure the best match possible between either horse and rider, or stallion and mare. 

In today's episode, we're going to be talking about Romeo who is known in the show ring to his competitors as Taking A Mistress. He is a 2017 Quarter Horse stallion who, for the last few years, has been making a very regular appearance in the top 10 open horses with the National Reining Horse Association. His top and most recent placing was in 2023 where he was the NRHA Reserve World Champion open horse. He is owned by Bevin Zimmerman who also rides him in the non-pro classes and then her trainer Jesse Gentile shows him in the open. I am fortunate enough to be meeting with both of them in this episode to be talking about Romeo's personality, but before we do, so let's do a quick overview of Romeo's personality profile. In this instance, both Jesse and Bevin took the EqPI assessment for Romeo, and I combined their inputs to create Romeo's profile. The EqPI profiles measure four Spectrums of behavior. These four Spectrums are the Independence Spectrum which is the horse's preference to control or comply, the Extraversion Spectrum which is the horse's preference to interact or isolate, the Stability Spectrum which is the horse's preference for predictability or variety, and then the Structure Spectrum is the last one which is the horse's preference for clarity or flexibility. By using Bevin and Jesse's inputs, I'm able to determine where Romeo falls on each of these spectrums of behavior, and then in addition to looking at the individual spectrums, I also look at how the horse’s spectrums and where they fall relates to each other, because that will give the overall picture and the kind of nuances of that horse's personality. On the Independence Spectrum Romeo falls on the low side and Low Independence horses are just really sweet, willing, and they really want to please. They don't tend to have as much self-confidence and so they don't like conflict. They just want to kind of be part of the team, want to please you, etc. Tor the Extraversion Spectrum, Romeo is situational and so for situational spectrums, we have to look at how it relates to other spectrums in the horse's profile to really understand how it's going to show up for him. So for Romeo, because he is also Low Independence, and therefore his Independence is lower than his Extraversion, he is going to be more relationship-oriented. Like, he won't be super standoffish. However, he is also High Stability, and because his Stability is higher than his Extraversion, he's not going to be super “in your face,” so he's going to be very pleasant to be around and have that sweetness from the Low Independence, but he's not going to be pushy and in your face and really eager to approach people and horses. He's just going to be more mellow and chill about it. Speaking of his High Stability, he is considered Very High on the Stability Spectrum. This is his strongest spectrum, meaning it's going to influence his behavior the most, and High Stability horses are just so calm and mellow and predictable. They don't really tend to build up energy. They can be labeled as “lazy,” because they are just much more kind of even keeled and easy to work with, and this is especially true because Romeo is also Very Low Structure. It's not quite as extreme as his Stability Spectrum, but this is his second strongest spectrum. And so, Low Structure horses… we talk about High Structure horses a lot in this podcast so it's nice to have a Low Structure horse for once… they're just so adaptable. Like, they don't need the clarity and the black and white of a High Structure horse, and so they're just much more easygoing, much more adaptable… If there's a change in their routine, it just doesn't faze them as much, but they can potentially be not as sensitive, especially because he's also High Stability. These horses are just a little bit more casual with rules. Like, they probably have to be tuned up fairly regularly to keep them sensitive to the aids, but they make very amateur friendly horses. The last relationship between the spectrums that I want to mention that I haven't talked about, yet, is the relationship between Romeo's Low Independence and High Stability. When a horse has this relationship, they tend to wait a little bit more. Like, they're not as proactive in their thinking. They don't anticipate as much, because that Low Independence… they really want to please and kind of do as they're told versus make more independent decisions, and then with the High Stability, they're just more calm and levelheaded and easygoing, and so when you have that relationship together, that's a horse that's just going to kind of do whatever you tell it to do and kind of do the bare minimum unless asked. All in all, Romeo's personality profile is just one that is super pleasant, and if I get another horse, I think I'm going to be looking specifically for this type of profile because having just a sweet, calm, adaptable, easygoing horse, it just… it sounds so lovely. If you want to see Romeo's profile in more detail, it is available as always on the Inside Equine Minds Patreon account. Just a reminder that our Patreon members have access to all of the guest horse profiles for free, or if you're not ready to be a member, that's fine! You can still purchase the individual profiles on the Patreon, as well. Patreon members, though, also get discount codes for EqPI services and early access to the podcast content. Now that we are all on the same page around Romeo's profile, let's talk to Bevin and Jesse.

Thank you both for joining me today. I'm very excited to have you. Welcome onto my podcast! Jesse - can we start with you? I'm just really curious from your perspective as his trainer, what are the aspects of Romeo's personality that you appreciate the most? (Jesse) He's just very good minded. I mean, he's pretty forgiving in a lot of ways. He's got a lot of try. I mean, I think that's what made him special is that he's super consistent because of his good mind. You know, me and Bev have talked about it a lot, looking back at his three-year-old year, he kind of struggled with some things early on. He didn't make a great futurity horse, but he always had a ton of try. As a trainer, that always kind of supersedes everything else, even talent. You don't just want to give up on them, because they, you know… if they're trying as hard as they can and they show you that they care and want to do it, they just struggle with some things, you're very happy to keep going and working with them. You know, I always felt like that was Romeo. As a three-year-old, he kind of struggled to figure stuff out. Part of it was because he is a little lazy, but he always was just very good minded and had a lot of try. So when he did finally figure stuff out, then he really got confident about it, just kind of has gotten better and better. That, to me, I guess is the best quality. He's just extremely good minded. He wants to do well. He doesn't try to overthink, you know? And that's made him a really good horse for Bev, because he can go back and forth between, you know, showing at a relatively high level and then, you know, doing whatever Bev needs him to do… to kind of tone it down just one notch. And he's only ever going to do as much as you ask him, so that's nice, you know? And in some ways, it's been… like, in the beginning, it was a little frustrating, because you can feel that it's in there, and there's a lot of horse in there, and he's good minded, and he's got try, but he just, you know, struggled with some things. And you almost wish you had a little more ‘oomph,’ because then he'd be at an elite level, but at the same time, I think that same quality has made it to where he's just been a perfect horse for our situation: being able to go back and forth from the open competition to Bev showing him in the non-pro. (Kaitlin) And he's done very well! Like, it's not like he's not done well. (Jesse) Oh yeah, he’s been a heck of horse! But sometimes, those ones that are a little more, you know… have a little more spark. It can be a lot tougher to go back and forth to a non-pro or a rookie level rider right? I think that's been more important than anything. I mean, Bev can tell me otherwise, but it's fun to have a level four type open horse, but you know, I think for her, she was… first and foremost, he needed to be a good horse for her, and then it just kind of turned out that way that he's been great at every level. (Bevin) Yeah, right. I think that's the most important thing for me, was “good minded” in the sense that, you know, he'll go and he'll win the derby with Jesse on Saturday night, and then on Sunday morning, we'd saddle him up, I'd get on him, and we'd go show in the rookie or the non-pro and he'd win that without really having to work hard to get him to come back and slow his mind down. He'll do exactly what you tell him, every time you tell him. (Kaitlin) I'm hearing a couple of things. The willingness and the try and wanting to please is associated with his Low Independence. Low Independence horses, they're just very willing horses, and with the High Stability that he has, as well… I heard you say lazy, Jesse. They do often get labeled as lazy, but you know, only doing what they're asked to do… they have a much steadier, calmer demeanor. And so I can definitely see how that can help between going to the pro and then back to the non-pro and back to the pro, and he seems to just kind of handle that with ease. (Jesse) Right. I mean for the reiners especially, I think like lazy isn't necessarily a bad thing. You know, in general, that's kind of what I look for. I want a horse that's kind of naturally lazy. I mean, they don't really want to go anywhere on their own, but I also like kind of… the magic combination for me is one that's kind of lazy, but also has enough feel that they let you spark them up without, you know, getting upset about it. And that's kind of Romeo. Like, he's… if you just let him lope around like a pleasure horse, he's happy to do that all day, but he also doesn't get mad or upset when you push him and ask him for more. He's very willing to do that, but you have to ask for it, so for me, I like that. And that's generally what makes a good show horse that lasts a long time is one that they're not too forward thinking, and they're very willing to wait for you to tell them. You know, the only counter to that is that you do have to ask him, and you have to ask him correctly, or he'll be like, “Nah, you know, I don't really feel like it.” And I think Bev’s found that out. She's had really good runs where Bev's on point and she's just, you know, she is really in the zone and doing everything right, and she's had some really big runs. And then other runs where, you know, she's distracted or nervous, and he just kind of… he just won't fire, you know? Because she didn't ask him hard enough or didn't… you know what I mean? But there again, in the grand scheme of Romeo, that I think, that's what's made him a really good horse for both of us, you know? Because I can push on him, and go ask him to give me all he's got, and Bev can take him right away and learn on him. He's going to teach her a lot, because she has to ask him right. But also there's plenty of horse there that when she's doing her job, he'll step up and doesn't fight you. (Kaitlin) So Bev, as his owner and as the non-pro rider, which aspect of Romeo's personality would you say is the most challenging to navigate as somebody who's learning? (Bevin) So it's actually probably the same trait that's probably my favorite that makes my life so easy with him but also is the most difficult… So it's his Stability. It's the fact that he doesn't do more than you ask him to do, so it's great! Like, he's never going to run off with me in a rundown. That'll never happen. And that, you know, you'll see reiners that have been shown a lot - and he's been shown a lot - that'll turn the corner in the rundown and just take off. He'll never do that, but if I'm, you know, had bad week at work, and I just can't focus, we're going to go in there, and we're going to give a really average run. Then… it's really hard then to, you know… it's on you right? He did exactly what you asked him to, exactly how much you asked him to, and you didn't ask for that extra. You didn't focus well enough. You weren't on your game. So that can be, you know… it's wonderful, and it's taught me so much, but it is also, you know… it can be a little humbling. Like it's hard to know there's a horse in there that can throw down, and you rode like a rookie, and you got a rookie performance so… (Kaitlin) Good teacher, though. (Bevin) Oh excellent! Amazing. To say like, I've learned so much and my riding has improved so much, because as soon as you do it correctly, and you feel that and you get that good score, you're like, “Oh my God, I want to do that again. Let's do this.” (Jesse) Right, but he won't just do it for you. (Bevin) Yeah, there are some non-pro horses and things that I think would just go out there and do it for you, and he's just… you have to ask him. You have to ride. (Jesse) Like generally, his uh… if you don't ask him right or don't ask him hard enough or aren't assertive enough, his thing is he just won't do anything. Like, he's likely to just stop, you know? If he's confused or doesn't know what you're asking, he'll just stop. (Kaitlin) Does the minimum. (Jesse) Yeah, yeah. (Kaitlin) Well I know, with reiners, you're evaluated on how “willingly guided” the horse is, and so I would imagine a profile like Romeo’s aligns with that really well, because he doesn't anticipate, and he just does exactly what you say. And so from a reining perspective, how do you feel his personality has impacted his success as a reiner? (Jesse) I think a lot, just kind of more of what we've been saying, is that ones like him and with his type of personality, I think that's what makes him such a good show horse for such a long time. I mean we've shown him a bunch. He has no right to be as honest and as good in the pen as he as he is, but I think just given his personality and like we say, he's a little on the lazier side, but he's super stable and super good minded and just, you know, very forgiving in so many ways. That's made it to where he's had a lot of longevity. Me and Bev were just talking about it the other day. He feels better now than he did last year, you know? He's just… he's getting better and better in the show pen, and for reiners, that's hard to do when they've been shown that much, you know? There's only so many patterns. They know what's coming. You know, that's what makes them good is that you know… I've always told people and it's kind of a common saying in the reining, it's controlled anticipation. Like… disciplined anticipation. So that horse has to anticipate what's coming next, because they need to do things very quickly and be very reactive. Like I said, if they're not expecting what's next, they’re probably going to be late or it's probably going to be a little sloppy. It’s… you know what I mean? They have to know what's coming next, but the trick to that is that… well then, we don't want them to start anticipating it and doing it before we actually ask them. So that's where Romeo really excels is that he knows what's coming next. He knows what you're doing as soon as you go in there, but he's quiet and good minded enough that he's going to wait until you actually tell him. I think that's been the key to his success and for as much as he's been shown, he's always right there and waits and is just so honest and… and it just makes it really fun. Like, for me, he's so fun to show, because it's kind of just… put your hand down and see how fast you can make him go. And you know he's going to be there, which not all horses are like that. Even really good show horses that have won a bunch of money and done all kinds of stuff… that doesn't necessarily mean they're the easiest horses to get shown, because they do tend to anticipate. But that's what's made him special is that he knows what's coming, but he's not going to do it until you ask him. (Bevin) I really think he is the definition of willingly guided. You know, when we read that in the reining handbook, that's what I see when I watch Jesse show Romeo is willingly guided. Ears are, you know, ears up going around the arena, hand down, loose rein, just a pleasure to watch. (Kaitlin) I see that in his personality profile, because I mean, we've talked about both of these Spectrums a number of times now, his Low Independence and being really willing and wanting to please, and then his High Stability. When a horse has both Low Independence and High Stability, they're more responsive instead of proactive. Like, they're not the fastest minded horse, but they're very willing and so, yeah, you don't get as much of that proactive, independent thinking. They're kind of just like, “Whenever you're ready!” (Jesse) Yep. (Kaitlin) Have you tried any other disciplines with him? I'm just curious. (Jesse) Uh no, not really. We've trail ridden him a bunch just because I think that's good for all the show horses just to get them out of the arena a little bit, but that's not really a discipline I guess. (Kaitlin) Does he like it? (Jesse) Oh yeah, I mean he's a great trail horse. It's actually kind of weird. Like, he just… you'd think he’d been doing it forever and done it a ton. Like he's always just kind of been really quiet and relaxed out on the trail. (Kaitlin) I would guess that, though, in looking at his profile with how calm he is with that High Stability and then his Low Structure is pretty low, as well, and those are just very adaptable, easygoing horses. So I'm not surprised at all to hear that it's just like, “We're going to go trail riding!” And he's just like, “La dee da.” (Jesse) Yeah, for sure. I used to send Bev pictures and stuff or videos I got from him as three-year-old and she probably thought I was crazy. Like, “This is how you're prepping my futurity horse? You’re just trail riding him?” (Bevin) Between that and they used to play ball together when we first got him as a two-year-old. Romeo would throw the ball out and Jesse would throw it back in his stall. (Jesse) Those Jolly Balls. (Kaitlin) Yeah, that's funny. I love that. You've been training Romeo for a long time, right Jesse? (Jesse) Yeah, Bevin bought him as a yearling. Yeah I mean really from day one we… I, you know, started him. We saw him… I'd been sending her some different colts and stuff, just to kind of see what she thought. Because she'd been doing it for, I don't know… a year and a half or two years with her first horse, her first reiner. And then after that, she was kind of ready to… she's like, “Oh let's maybe get a prospect. Kind of either build him for me and if he's, you know… if he's enough to go be competitive in some of the open stuff, great!” But yeah, so I saw him online and someone commented on somebody else's post looking for yearlings, and I saw him. He was a brown yearling, and I just… something about him. Like, he wasn't bred super popularly. He wasn't anything overly flashy, but he just kind of had a certain look to him. I ended up getting some more pictures and videos and sent him to Bev, and I was like, “Hey, I really like this one. I mean, he's not like… on paper, he's not anything all that special, but he's just kind of got a really cool look.” And Bev obviously ended up pulling the trigger and like, “Yeah, let's go ahead.” And he was even advertised… the people we bought him from told us, “Yeah, he's not really an open horse type prospect. He's more of a non-pro/rookie type horse.” Just because… I mean they could tell back then, he just was kind of a little on the duller side as far as yearlings go, and not, you know… not overreactive. So you know, they told us, “I don't know that it'll be an open horse.” But he has since kind of proved otherwise. But there again, I think that goes back to just him being good minded. (Kaitlin) Just super willing. (Jesse) Yeah. (Kaitlin) As a young horse, training him, what sort of tips did you figure out worked best for him from a training perspective in alignment with his personality? (Jesse) The biggest thing I struggled with, I would say, was just… I say “lazy,” but that's not necessarily a bad thing, but he was on the lazy side. So getting him, you know… Everything in the reining is forward maneuvers. Even though we want him relaxed and quiet and all that, anytime you teach them anything, even the stops and the turns… they have to go forward. And so that was always kind of a struggle, just to get him forward enough and have enough momentum to get him to really figure stuff out. And that's I think partly why it took a took a while to get that and for him to figure that stuff out, because he just… anytime he was confused or didn't understand something, his natural instinct was to just kind of stop, right? Not because he wasn't trying. He just… he would kind of suck back and just stop, because he's like, “I don't know what you want, so I'm not going to do anything.” So that that was kind of my biggest struggle with him. Continuing that, the biggest thing I had to kind of adapt to him, which has actually since - like he's helped me on a lot of my other horses since then, just kind of getting him figured out - was that I couldn't fully stick to exactly how I wanted things to feel. I had to learn to just let him do what he could, and then leave it alone for a while, and then maybe come back to it a little later and try to get it a little bit more towards how I wanted it. Because I found that if I just really harped on, “Hey, you got to do it this way, and, you know, this is how I want it done, and this is how I want something to feel.” Especially as a young horse, he didn't have the confidence to take it and be okay with it. He, like I said, he would just kind of shut down and quit. I had to learn to let him half figure something out, even if it wasn't exactly how I wanted it, but it got to where he was doing it, and then I had to kind of back off and let him do it that way for a while. And then I could kind of come back to it and get a little better or a little more how I wanted it and kind of go from there. That I think's been the biggest thing for his whole career. I mean, even now, there's things that he doesn't do everything exactly how I, in an ideal world, want one to do it or want it to feel, but it works best for him. If I try too hard to make it exactly how I want it, the whole thing just kind of suffers a little bit. So he's really made me learn to just be as adaptable as possible and understand that the best way for that horse isn't necessarily exactly how I want something to feel. (Kaitlin) Is that the same with preparing him for different shows? (Jesse) Yeah, so with him… preparing him for shows, it was always kind of less is more, because he… you know, he doesn't have a ton of air. He just… you run out of horse pretty quick. (Kaitlin) Yeah, that High Stability is not the most energetic horse. (Jesse) Right. So there again, that was something I kind of had to learn as especially, again, as a young horse… like when I was still figuring out, “Hey, I can't ask him to do it exactly how I want to do it.” I'd run out of horse quick, so it took me a little while to figure out, “Hey, just basically get him warmed up. Jog around, lope around a little bit.” And then he's more ready then than if I spend, you know, 45 minutes just kind of harping on every maneuver before I go show. So as he's gotten older and he's gotten more confidence and he's stronger everywhere, now he really is the easiest horse I've ever had to go prep to go show. I mean, it's literally just, pull him out of the… we've done it multiple times! Just pull him out of the stall, jog him around to get him warmed up a little bit, and he's ready to go perform. He is really pretty simple. Earlier on, you know, there was always, you know… there's always going to be a couple things you got to just kind of spark up. Like, his spins… that was something that the first couple years of showing him, he'd get a little lazy. So right before I go in, I just kind of make sure he was a little more responsive to that turn signal and all that. I mean overall, I… everybody always asks me how I prep him, and they don't ever seem to want to believe me, but I'm like, “I really don't do anything. I just get him out the stall, jog him around and go show, and that's when he's best.” (Kaitlin) His personality profile is not one that kind of builds up energy. (Jesse) Right. (Kaitlin) Like, I wouldn't imagine that you'd have to lunge him or anything like that. (Jesse) No no no no. (Bevin) Could you imagine? As a non-pro and as a weekend warrior, it's perfect for me, because I'm not exhausted Monday morning when I have to go to work, because I'm not riding for, you know, hours and hours at night and hours and hours before we go show. We're literally tacking him up and brushing him off and… (Kaitlin) walking in the ring. (Bevin) Yeah, yeah. Throwing down a decent score. (Jesse) Yeah. (Kaitlin) That's awesome. Is it the same at home, as well? What sort of things do you do at home that help bring out the best in his personality? (Jesse) I mean, at this point, he's on a pretty good routine. I mean, I know before he ever went to the breeding shed last year, you wouldn't know he was a stud. You know, now he'll talk a little bit and he's… you can tell he's been bred a little bit. But even now, he's not hard to handle at all. He's still very quiet, very good minded. You know, like I said, the only difference now is he'll talk a little bit when he's walking down the barn aisle, but before that, you would think he was a gelding. I mean, heck! We've trail ridden him with other mares walking right next to him. He doesn't care. So yeah, he's always been very easy to handle as far as his routine. Now it's honestly more… his home routine is more about recovery and just keeping him in good shape between shows and all that. At this point in his career, there's not like any major, hard work on his each individual maneuver. It's more just about keeping him in good shape, keeping him fit, but also trying not to overdo it in between shows so that we save his muscles, save his body for the shows. As Bev likes to call it, he gets a lot of “active recovery days” after shows. Early on, it was a lot more of rigorous training routine, as it is with most trainers as a two and three year-old, but as he's gotten older and all that, it has really become more about just trying to keep him in as good of shape as possible. Right before show, I'll maybe kind of try to spark some things up for the last couple rides before we leave, but other than that, it's just making sure everything's healthy and sound and feels good. And for Bev, she comes out a couple times a week and takes lessons and again, at this point, it's more… we're trying to work on her and making sure she knows how to ask him to do things correctly and all that. We try to keep him on as light of a work schedule at home as possible, but still keep him in as good of shape as we possibly can. (Kaitlin) And when you say spark things up, I'm interpreting that as making him more sensitive to some of the aids. (Jesse) Yes, yeah. As Bev knows, I mean I tell all my customers about their horses and Romeo especially to Bev, don't over ask him to do something. You're going to wear it out. If you bump him in the belly 10 times, eventually it’s not gonna mean anything, you know? So that's a lot of what we'll work on. (Kaitlin) Especially for a profile like his. (Jesse) Right, yeah. (Kaitlin) So he's a stallion, right? So have you been able to interact with any of his foals at all and to see if he passes on those traits? (Bevin) So he has one foal on the ground right now. So he's only been in the breeding shed for two years, so we have one foal on the ground, and I've met Boon, but I mean, I think it's a little early - he's not weaned, yet - for us to determine if the traits are passed on. (Jesse) Yeah and I haven't met him, yet. I'm really looking forward to it. And I know he's got hopefully a bunch coming next year so that'll kind of be the first true test. (Kaitlin) From a nature versus nurture perspective, when we talk about personality, it's kind of the chicken or the egg, right? Which one has more impact? Genes and parents or the raising and the training? And you made an interesting point earlier, Jesse, that his breeding was not all that amazing, but he still had all this try. And that's what has really kind of led to his success is that try, and so I'm curious, from both of your experiences, which one do you feel has the most impact on personality? (Jesse) Oh gosh, um… I think with most things, it's kind of a combination, you know? It always does amaze me, even to this day after riding a bunch of different horses from similar bloodlines and the same sires and all that… it always amazes me how many things actually do seem to get passed on, even things that you wouldn't necessarily expect like behaviors and stuff. But I do. I think it's a combination. You know, it's… their upbringing has a lot to do with it. You know, I think in Romeo's case, he's not bred poorly. He's actually bred pretty well. It's just, you wouldn't look at his papers, especially as a yearling, and go, “Wow! That's impressive!” It was more just like, “Oh okay, yeah. I mean, there's solid stuff on there.” But it just wasn't the hot thing at the time. I've ridden some colts that had very similar breeding to him and there's very similar traits, but I do think he, just as an individual, kind of had the perfect combination of his bloodlines and… I don't know! I think it's a combination. I think it's a… I think back to his two-year-old year and his three-year-old year, and like I told you, he struggled a little bit with some things, and I really had to learn. I mean it was hard! It was hard for me to be able to adapt to what he needed. I think there was always a risk that if you would just push him and push him and push him, I think he was the type that he would have… he would have just kind of given up, because he's like, “I'm not getting it figured out.” And his nature was to just kind of quit. I like to think that, you know, learning that he needed to just kind of take it at his own pace, helped him in the long run, and it built his confidence instead of destroying it early on. So to  that's a nurture type thing, but I don't know. Bev, do you have any other ideas? (Bevin) No, I think… I mean, I think it's helped... so Romeo's been in the same program with the same trainer from his first ride, right? And Jesse's really great with black and white. Like, this is right. This is wrong, and this is what I want you to do. And I think that helped build his confidence, and he's very confident in what is correct, and he knows what to do. So I think nurture plays a huge role in it. I'm proud of the fact that he's been in that consistent program and has had that consistent messaging from day one. I think that's been huge. (Jesse) He's just a good animal. I don't know. Doesn't have a mean bone in his body, and he's outgoing and friendly. But at the same time, he's one that doesn't really care if he's getting a lot of attention or not, you know? And to me, in my experience, that makes a good show horse. Ones that get too needy and too attention driven, they can have a little bit more mood swings I think. But Romeo, like if Bev wants to go pet on him and love on him, he's like, “Okay, that's fine.” He also doesn't care if you don't. (Kaitlin) Yeah, his Extraversion situational. He is relationship-oriented because his Extraversion is higher than his Independence, but it's… he's not a super extraverted horse. So I would imagine he's very sweet to work with, but just not kind of an in-your-face social horse. (Jesse) Right, yeah. (Bevin) I don't think I've ever seen him get upset ever. Like you said, he's not… there's not a mean bone in that body. He's just so chill. (Kaitlin) That's a great word, yeah. Very chill. (Jesse) He is very chill. (Kaitlin) Yeah, well, I mean, it sounds like a really great match between what you all do with him. I think it's awesome, and it's pretty unique to be able to find a horse that can do the non-pro and the pro in the same weekend and not be phased by it. (Bevin) That's what we love about him. I mean, multiple times in a weekend, he'll win for Jesse, and then the next day or later in the day, I'll take him out and show him, and he'll win for me. And he just takes it. He just does it. (Kaitlin) Yeah, super adaptable. I love that.

(Kaitlin) If you want to know your horse's profile you can get a profile at the EqPI website which is www.equineperformanceidentities.com. If you like this podcast, we'd really appreciate if you showed us some love by rating, following, and sharing with others. Thanks for listening, and we hope you tune in next time!

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