Interview with former Board President, Joan Fitzpatrick

In this episode of ESSSuper's Exploring Super podcast, we sit down with Joan Fitzpatrick, ESSSuper’s former Board President. Joan tells us about her time with the fund, along with the changes and the challenges ESSSuper has seen over the last decade.

Transcript

00:00:02 

You're listening to Exploring Super, the exclusive podcast for ESS Super members. 

00:00:11 

Welcome to Exploring Super, the exclusive podcast for ESS Super members. 

00:00:16 

I'm Felicity Brasher, Group Executive of Member Engagement, and today I'm welcoming Joan Fitzpatrick, who until recently held the title of President of the ESS Super Board. 

00:00:27 

Welcome, Joan. 

00:00:29 

Thanks, Felicity. 

00:00:30 

So Joan Fitzpatrick was appointed President of the ESS Super Board on the 8th of February 2016 and served her full 10-year tenure. 

00:00:40 

Joan is an accomplished company director and successful business leader with over 40 years of experience in the corporate, government and not-for-profit sectors. 

00:00:51 

She has an impressive track record of achieving strong engagement and successful business outcomes in complex change environments. 

00:00:59 

Joan is the Chair of Catholic Church Insurance, the Hardman Group, 

00:01:04 

and RAF Hargrove, the Chair of AFL-PA Injury and Support Fund Board, the Chair of the Australian National Research Organisation for Women's Safety, and the Non-Executive Director of the Defence Bank. 

00:01:20 

In addition, she runs her private consulting business, Alviarium Proprietary Limited, and provides pro bono consulting to various charities and causes. 

00:01:30 

She has a particular focus on mentoring women and championing 

00:01:34 

Women's equality in society. 

00:01:36 

Joan is also a fellow of the AICD, member of the Association of Superannuation Funds of Australia Limited, Customer-Owned Banking Association, and Women in Super. 

00:01:49 

So Joan, to begin with, we'd love to help members to get to know the person behind the role of the president of the ESS Super Board. 

00:01:58 

So can you tell us a little bit of a story about yourself? 

00:02:01 

Well, Felicity, I was born in Belfast and I grew up during the troubles and all the violence and the fear and the bigotry. 

00:02:10 

Yes. 

00:02:10 

I mentioned that A, because I still haven't lost the accent and B, because it really shaped who I am. 

00:02:18 

Of course. 

00:02:19 

I think. 

00:02:19 

for the better as well in terms of thinking about justice and equality and lack of any type of prejudice or bigotry. 

00:02:29 

It also encouraged me to do a law degree. 

00:02:32 

And so I left Belfast a couple of weeks after my 18th birthday and went to England to university, did a law degree, and then went into London to the bar, not the alcoholic drinking bar, but the bar of the law bar. 

00:02:49 

the legal bar and did all my barristers training. 

00:02:54 

But by the time I'd finished the qualification, I knew that I didn't want to be a barrister. 

00:02:59 

It was not for me. 

00:03:01 

In those days, it was incredibly difficult to be a woman barrister, a female barrister. 

00:03:06 

And it was, you know, you ended up doing sort of family law or divorce law. 

00:03:11 

And I wasn't interested in any of those legal areas. 

00:03:14 

I had been temping in London to sort of keep 

00:03:17 

the wolf from the door and pay the rent and put food on the table, et cetera. 

00:03:21 

And I ended up just having a really big stroke of luck. 

00:03:25 

And I started work at 20th Century Fox in just on the outskirts of London. 

00:03:30 

Had a fabulous time with them. 

00:03:32 

They trained me and educated me in terms of how to be a people manager and a leader. 

00:03:37 

And then from there, I had a really sort of eclectic career. 

00:03:41 

I sort of worked in large 

00:03:44 

project development as project directors and big multi-million dollar developments builds. 

00:03:52 

I was into building. 

00:03:53 

And then from there I went into engineering, insurance and risk management. 

00:03:59 

And that role was an American company and that saw me traveling all over the world with that, in that role. 

00:04:07 

I ended up living in KL, Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia, building a Southeast Asian business for them. 

00:04:13 

It was just a really amazing experience. 

00:04:17 

And then I came to Melbourne because I married a beautiful Melbourne man and settled here and became the CEO of the Australian insurance professional body. 

00:04:29 

So I was involved in membership association work and also in education. 

00:04:34 

We ended up educating in six different languages and spreading our professional education all over Asia. 

00:04:42 

So it was very, very interesting, very exciting, lovely experience to do that job. 

00:04:48 

And then I sort of decided that it was time, I'd been a CEO for a long, time and you sort of end up, sort of, I suppose, 

00:04:59 

it was time to move on and, have some change. 

00:05:03 

And I decided that I was really enjoying the non-executive director roles that I had. 

00:05:10 

I'd been a non-executive director since 1998. 

00:05:14 

Wow. 

00:05:14 

Even though I was working in full-time work, I was working in a charity. 

00:05:18 

I was working for the Victorian Managed Insurance Authority as a board director. 

00:05:24 

And so I sort of really enjoyed it and thought, maybe I can do this. 

00:05:28 

would be great. 

00:05:29 

But then I had a bit of a panic attack and thought nobody might want me. 

00:05:34 

So I then set up the consulting business and I've been doing consulting in strategy, governance, risk, leadership, helping teams work well together. 

00:05:46 

Yes. 

00:05:47 

And so I've been doing that dual role for since 2013. 

00:05:51 

Wow. 

00:05:52 

You've done so much. 

00:05:54 

I don't know how you fit that all into the, because you're only, what, 25 now. 

00:06:00 

But seriously, you've lived like 3 lifetimes, Joan. 

00:06:03 

What inspired you to join the *** Super Board 10 years ago? 

00:06:09 

The purpose. 

00:06:10 

Absolutely full answer to that is the purpose, the noble purpose of this organisation. 

00:06:18 

I'd always sort of promised myself I'd worked in my life for some listed companies, yes, and I'd always sort of set myself a parameter or a rule that when I was doing... 

00:06:30 

non-executive director roles, I would really seek companies or organizations that had really fabulous purpose and purpose that I could relate to. 

00:06:39 

So for me, the whole rational raison d'etre or the reason for being for EWS super is really powerful and resonates fully for me. 

00:06:51 

This idea that we would 

00:06:54 

work hard to ensure a really great retirement outcome for emergency services workers, for teachers, for all these frontline people, parliamentarians, everybody who serves the community so well. 

00:07:09 

So that was the real draw card for me. 

00:07:12 

Yeah. 

00:07:13 

And look, I think that's a theme that does run through the business. 

00:07:17 

And it's, you know, it's not lip service. 

00:07:19 

We really do. 

00:07:20 

It is what binds us together. 

00:07:22 

So you can really 

00:07:23 

feel it. 

00:07:24 

In the whole 10 years that I've been here, it's been an absolute core cultural moray, you know, cultural sort of rule and everybody just gets it, which is fantastic. 

00:07:34 

100%. 

00:07:35 

So you've contributed to several boards over your career, as you've mentioned. 

00:07:40 

How does the ESS Super Board differ from other boards you've been involved in? 

00:07:45 

It's got quite a significant difference and it's a very interesting difference. 

00:07:51 

mainly in that it is constituted by government appointed in inverted commons professional non-executive directors, people who bring a set of skills and some experience to the table in terms of being directors. 

00:08:05 

But it also brings to the table a group of member representatives, not actually representing 

00:08:13 

specific parts of the membership, but also, but because they come into the room as directors and non-executive directors and their job is to look after the best interests of the whole of the company and the whole of the organization. 

00:08:26 

So they're not pushing agendas at all. 

00:08:28 

No. 

00:08:29 

But what they do is they bring fabulous insight to our membership. 

00:08:34 

We have frontline, real life, current understanding of what our members are experiencing and what our members' issues might be through those people. 

00:08:45 

It's been quite an amazing experience to see how that works because in some contexts, 

00:08:53 

it doesn't work. 

00:08:54 

In other contexts, it doesn't work. 

00:08:56 

It can be quite sort of fractious at times. 

00:09:00 

I understand in other boards. 

00:09:02 

But for us, again, that unity of purpose, that strong belief in why we were there, why we were sitting at the table, what our goal and role was. 

00:09:13 

was really unifying and it made for, I think, a great set of outcomes from the board and their decision making. 

00:09:22 

That's certainly been my experience with what I see dealing with the board too, and particularly on the benefits and services committee. 

00:09:30 

Yeah. 

00:09:31 

Someone from the outside wouldn't be able to pick, I don't think, apart from if people were wearing their uniforms, what membership people were representing. 

00:09:40 

Yeah. 

00:09:41 

So members often wonder, and I guess I used to wonder too, what does the board actually do? 

00:09:46 

So how would you explain the board's role and responsibilities to a member? 

00:09:51 

Because hopefully we've got lots of members listening to this. 

00:09:53 

The board's role is to, it's multifactorial. 

00:09:58 

It's to 

00:09:59 

set the strategic direction, not to actually implement it, that's the executive and the staff's job, but to actually play a really strong role in setting the strategic direction of the organisation. 

00:10:11 

It's about making sure that we comply with regulation and comply with the rules of participation in the system. 

00:10:20 

And it's about making sure that all of the financial elements of the business are 

00:10:27 

are safe and secure. 

00:10:28 

So it's a fiduciary duty as well. 

00:10:31 

It's having oversight, oversight of how the business operates and providing, I suppose, guidance and advice and different experiences to the discussions about any of the operational issues, but not again, getting involved in operations. 

00:10:49 

Again, that's for the CEO and the executive. 

00:10:52 

I think also one of the biggest duties of any board is to appoint the CEO and then to manage the CEO and her or his performance and make sure that those performance elements are fulfilled. 

00:11:09 

So it's sort of, it's a wise, wise counsel. 

00:11:14 

I think we're there to support the executive team, help and advise them, but also have an element of oversight and check and balance as well to make sure that all the right things are being done. 

00:11:28 

And I'm very happy to say that the board has enjoyed a fantastic relationship with the CEO, Robbie Campo, with the executive team, of which you're one, Felicity. 

00:11:39 

And there's a lot of really good collaboration there and still with enough distance for the board to sort of oversight as well. 

00:11:49 

So it's not too comfortable. 

00:11:52 

There's plenty of challenge goes on at the board table with the executive. 

00:11:57 

I think my greatest sort of goal when I chair a board is to make sure that there's a lot of calm, there's a lot of harmony, there's a lot of transparency, and that the CEO or the executive aren't frightened to come and tell us the bad news. 

00:12:17 

And you know, that the board behaves itself too, you know, that the board, it doesn't have a sort of a gotcha 

00:12:22 

Yes. 

00:12:23 

We pointed out that paragraph 32 is incorrect. 

00:12:28 

I think it's that sort of we're in this team together. 

00:12:32 

We've got the same goals, the same strategic objectives. 

00:12:36 

Let's work together and be strong together. 

00:12:38 

Yeah. 

00:12:39 

And I can certainly say that is absolutely what you created. 

00:12:43 

I've felt very, very lucky to be a part of that. 

00:12:47 

Now, I feel like this is almost a trick question, but as you would know, every board navigates difficult periods along the way. 

00:12:56 

All right. 

00:12:57 

So what have been some of the key challenges the board has faced during your tenure? 

00:13:02 

It's so obvious. 

00:13:04 

For me, it's obvious, but it may be different for you. 

00:13:07 

Look, I think we can't go past the big one, which was the 

00:13:13 

transition to a new administrator. 

00:13:16 

I mean, when I first came in here, just 10 years ago, it feels like yesterday sometimes, and it feels like 100 years ago at other times, we were sitting on, I think, five or six legacy platforms. 

00:13:30 

All of them, we'd been notified, we're not going to be maintained or sustained by the providers, the suppliers of the platforms. 

00:13:38 

And 

00:13:38 

we were in a lot of risk. 

00:13:41 

And so the board rightly considered what it needed to do. 

00:13:46 

It rightly went through a process in terms of what the objectives were to get ourselves off these old, ancient limping platforms and move to what we had hoped would be a highly digitized, really efficient, 

00:14:02 

easy for staff, beautiful running operative sort of administration option. 

00:14:10 

And of course, that's what we set ourselves up to achieve. 

00:14:12 

And unfortunately, we didn't get there. 

00:14:15 

And we had some really terrible troubles. 

00:14:19 

in terms of the vendor and the supplier and the promises that were made and the promises that were broken. 

00:14:24 

We won't go into all of that now, but that's still a matter on foot and it'll be very interesting to see how that plays out to the end. 

00:14:32 

Yes. 

00:14:32 

So I think that would probably have dominated. 

00:14:37 

the last five years of my 10 years. 

00:14:40 

So, my bad. 

00:14:42 

So carrying that and sort of trying to navigate a proper journey through that and keep the members safe, keep everything operating and running was a big, big challenge for us. 

00:14:55 

I think the other one was the sort of very sudden departure of the CEO, which caused an enormous sort of 

00:15:06 

especially just before we were about to go live, it was really pretty awful. 

00:15:09 

And I loved, in a way, when I reflected on this question, I was just remembering how everybody rallied around the board and around our, our CEO appointee that we put in to hold the fort for us. 

00:15:25 

And the whole executive team was marvellous. 

00:15:28 

Staff were marvellous. 

00:15:29 

So again, I think everybody pivoted. 

00:15:33 

to that, we've got to cope with this and we've got to secure and make sure that the members don't feel anything about it and they have a great experience from us. 

00:15:42 

And so that goal was always great and I think we fulfilled it and managed the risk and did well. 

00:15:49 

And then we appointed, the board's most important thing to do was to appoint a great CEO and to appoint Robbie was fantastic. 

00:15:56 

He did a magnificent job. 

00:15:57 

And then I think the third thing I'd call out in the 10 years was COVID. 

00:16:00 

I mean, I think that 

00:16:03 

One of the things I'm so proud of in here is that we actually moved to working from home reality very quickly. 

00:16:12 

It was almost seamless. 

00:16:14 

It was amazing. 

00:16:16 

And again, the customer service area, Felicity, big pat on the back to you. 

00:16:21 

Thank you. 

00:16:21 

I mean, just amazing. 

00:16:23 

So I think that was a very difficult time for everybody in the world, in Australia, in Melbourne. 

00:16:30 

I think we managed that very well. 

00:16:31 

So I was very proud of that. 

00:16:33 

It is almost a. 

00:16:36 

Bit of a blur and it was the best part of two years. 

00:16:39 

So yeah, it was a tricky time and I remember the contact centre because that was our main drama. 

00:16:47 

I know. 

00:16:47 

I remember it, Felicity, all that you went through. 

00:16:49 

We were lucky that we just transitioned them to a cloud-based service not long before, so it was kind of like Kismet. 

00:16:59 

We were quite lucky. 

00:17:01 

So 

00:17:02 

Thinking back over those last 10 years again, what have been the biggest changes you think you've seen since you started? 

00:17:12 

Well, I think the power of the superannuation industry in Australia has been just the grossest, been amazing over the past two decades. 

00:17:21 

I mean, we're at 4.5 trillion now. 

00:17:24 

That's a lot of money. 

00:17:25 

And of that 4.5 trillion, I think 

00:17:28 

3.5, don't quote me, although I'm saying it on this podcast. 

00:17:32 

I think 3.5 is, you know, is upper supervised and, you know, it's pretty well regulated. 

00:17:39 

I think the projection is 2035, we will be the second largest superannuation pension system in the world, second only to the US. 

00:17:48 

Yes. 

00:17:49 

United States of America. 

00:17:51 

And so for me, the momentum around that was in the past decade has been really amazing to participate in and to also observe. 

00:18:00 

There's been a lot of push for scale and for consolidation. 

00:18:07 

And I think that presents its own challenges for a small, unique boutique sort of fund like ours. 

00:18:13 

And I think, you know, there's been some amazing 

00:18:18 

outcomes. 

00:18:19 

And really, I think in the end, the wealth, the non-property, non-household, non sort of property owning wealth of the country is phenomenal. 

00:18:29 

And I think we forget about that. 

00:18:31 

So, so for me, those are the I think it's just gone from strength to strength. 

00:18:36 

And it's been an amazing thing to witness the growth and the system growth has been amazing. 

00:18:43 

Yeah. 

00:18:43 

No, I would agree. 

00:18:44 

So anyone who's worked in super would have seen that the expectations on super fund governance continues to rise. 

00:18:53 

Which area of governance do you think super funds will most need to strengthen over the next, say, five years or so? 

00:18:59 

Oh, yeah. 

00:19:01 

I mean, this is a big question in terms of, I mean, it's, I mean, it's very broad. 

00:19:06 

The answer could be, I could go on and on and on. 

00:19:09 

Yeah. 

00:19:09 

But thinking about it, 

00:19:11 

I think the biggest challenge of all will be artificial intelligence, the deployment of it, the use of it, the benefits that it brings and the risks that it brings. 

00:19:24 

And I think it'll be transformative and it'll be transformative within five years. 

00:19:30 

Yes. 

00:19:30 

I think the value of it is really exciting because it can give us deep, deep insight into our members in a way that 

00:19:41 

the normal sort of data analytics just can't do. 

00:19:45 

I mean, it'll just be exponential, the sort of depths and breadths and sort of value of the data and the insights that it'll bring, which will allow us to service our members even better. 

00:19:58 

I think it'll bring efficiencies. 

00:20:01 

I think 

00:20:02 

everybody gets frightened by that word because everybody goes, gosh, it's my, it's my job. 

00:20:06 

Yeah, of course. 

00:20:07 

That's it. 

00:20:08 

But I think that it won't, it'll just change the nature of work for all of us. 

00:20:13 

And that might be a good thing because we do work very, very hard and we do work very long hours. 

00:20:20 

And, you know, maybe it will mean that, you know, there'll be a sort of resettlement of the number of hours people work generally per week, et cetera, as a consequence. 

00:20:30 

People always want to talk to a human being. 

00:20:32 

People always want to look at somebody in the face and have some connection. 

00:20:38 

So I don't think we'll ever replace the need or the desire for, you know, a trusted advisor. 

00:20:46 

And I think that AWS Super will always have a role to play. 

00:20:50 

And people always want that connection. 

00:20:52 

So I think AI is probably one of the biggest things that's going to be 

00:20:58 

the next five years. 

00:20:59 

I think so too. 

00:21:00 

And it seems like the superannuation industry changes to some degree nearly every year. 

00:21:07 

Where do you see us heading and what role should a mission-driven emergency services fund like *** Super play in that future? 

00:21:16 

Well, where do I see it heading? 

00:21:18 

This is another big question. 

00:21:20 

I think the macro statement is that it will become, it's ripe for AI transformation. 

00:21:26 

So that's going to be, that's going to dominate everything. 

00:21:28 

Yeah, absolutely. 

00:21:29 

And governing that is going to be a challenge for all boards. 

00:21:32 

There's no two ways about that. 

00:21:33 

Yeah. 

00:21:34 

Where do I see the superannuation industry heading? 

00:21:36 

I think it's going to have enormous power in the economic system in Australia. 

00:21:42 

Yeah. 

00:21:43 

And it will have to 

00:21:45 

be very careful and deft with how it exerts that power and how it influences the economic well-being of the whole country. 

00:21:54 

Yes. 

00:21:54 

I think that it's on track. 

00:21:56 

I think there's very good thinking going on. 

00:21:59 

There's... 

00:22:00 

powerful, good meaning in terms of most of the practitioners in the super industry in terms of what they're doing. 

00:22:06 

I think the question about how we service the disadvantaged is going to have to be addressed. 

00:22:16 

I think women in particular, there's a lot of inequality in terms of how women fit into their super outcome at the end of their, you know, working lives when they've not been working consistently. 

00:22:30 

when they might be divorced or they might be in a course of control environment. 

00:22:35 

there's all sorts of issues around women's disadvantage that I'd really love to see the super industry deal with. 

00:22:42 

Same with First Nations people, you know, such disadvantage. 

00:22:46 

It's crazy that we've allowed it to continue. 

00:22:49 

So systemically, I'd really love to see a lot of change around how women are equalized. 

00:22:56 

and how First Nations peoples are also equalised. 

00:23:01 

I think the other thing that I would love to see is that we do a better job of educating our young ones. 

00:23:11 

You know, I sort of often reflect that we use the word superannuation, but actually what we really mean is it's savings. 

00:23:18 

You're actually saving for the future. 

00:23:21 

You're putting, and in the old concept of, where you had a piggy bank and you put money away as a child, I think that whole concept of saving has been lost in our children's minds, So I think we need to educate our young ones. 

00:23:37 

It's an absolute fact that 50% of Australians have no engagement with their super. 

00:23:45 

Most of them don't even know. 

00:23:48 

their supers with and it really ramps up that disengagement, that disconnect, that lack of understanding really ramps up between sort of 18 and 40 or something like that. 

00:23:58 

So I think we should do a better job and AWS super has a role to play with our own young cohorts coming in through the DB scheme and 

00:24:08 

emergency services. 

00:24:10 

So I'd really like to see some clever capacity to engage with them and show them just how amazing it is. 

00:24:18 

Yes. 

00:24:18 

Because there's still this narrative going on in the public domain that, you know, you should be able to access it so you can buy a house, et cetera. 

00:24:28 

And I think there's not enough clarity around why it's so critically important that they save and they get ready for a healthy, happy retirement. 

00:24:37 

So yeah. 

00:24:38 

No, I think you're bang on and my own children, I've... 

00:24:42 

really honed in on the savings part. 

00:24:45 

And even now that they're working, I talk about super all the time, getting them to change their investment options, getting them to understand it is so important. 

00:24:54 

But yeah, I think there's a bigger role to be played by educators. 

00:25:00 

Sean, we might finish up, but I don't want to end on anything other than you. 

00:25:06 

So I want to hear about what's next for you, because I'm going to miss you terribly. 

00:25:11 

I'm missing you all already. 

00:25:13 

It's terrible. 

00:25:14 

It's been such a lovely experience to be with you all. 

00:25:17 

And yeah, and to have made great friendships as well. 

00:25:21 

It's such a such a boon, you know, to have that. 

00:25:25 

So I am already missing you all terribly. 

00:25:28 

What's next for me? 

00:25:29 

Well, actually, I'm still quite busy. 

00:25:32 

Well, yes, I'm still sharing lots of boards. 

00:25:35 

I still intend to maintain my role as a non-executive director. 

00:25:41 

I'm loving the new role around women's safety, the research organisation for women's safety, which is a federal sort of government appointment. 

00:25:49 

And that's sort of trying to bring evidence around family and domestic and sexual violence against women and children. 

00:26:01 

And so it's a big research 

00:26:04 

house that does a lot of great work to help people put into action the right mitigants and the right preventative stuff. 

00:26:12 

So that's really a great... 

00:26:16 

role for me, but all the other roles that I'm on, I'm just love them all. 

00:26:19 

And I'm still consulting, believe it or not. 

00:26:22 

People still seem to want to employ me. 

00:26:24 

I don't know how you fit it all in. 

00:26:26 

Well, it's so interesting. 

00:26:29 

You always get out of bed when you're interested and you're enjoying what you're doing. 

00:26:32 

That's it. 

00:26:33 

Absolutely. 

00:26:34 

Joan, thank you so very, very much for coming in today and sharing a little bit about yourself and also a big thank you for all you've done for AWS Super and its members. 

00:26:45 

Thanks. 

00:26:46 

That wraps up our episode today of Exploring Super, the exclusive podcast for ESS Super members. 

00:26:52 

We look forward to producing more content for you at ESS Super, proudly serving our members. 

00:26:58 

If you'd like more information about our investments and products, please go to essuper.com.au. 

00:27:09 

This podcast is of a general nature only and does not consider your personal circumstances, financial needs or objectives. 

00:27:16 

Before acting on any advice contained in this podcast, please download and read the relevant product disclosure statement and target market determination found on our website, e00super.com.au. 

00:27:29 

The board recommends that you seek financial advice before acting upon this information. 

00:27:34 

Investment returns cannot be guaranteed as investment markets can be volatile. 

00:27:38 

As a consequence, returns can be positive or negative. 

00:27:41 

Past investment performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance. 

00:27:47 

Benefits in EWS Super's accumulation plan, income streams, and beneficiary account products are not guaranteed or underwritten by the Victorian Government or EWS Super. 

00:27:58 

Any institutions mentioned by name does not constitute endorsement.