Community Isn’t Automatic; Finding Your People Again

After talking about church hurt and the temptation to just skate by spiritually, the next question is obvious:

If community matters… how do we actually find it again?

Rebuilding community after disappointment can feel intimidating. It’s easier to stay guarded, keep things surface-level, or convince ourselves we don’t really need it.

But following Jesus was never meant to be a solo journey.

In this episode we talk about what healthy Christian community actually looks like, why midlife makes meaningful friendships harder (and more necessary), and how to take small, brave steps toward belonging again.

Because you don’t just stumble into real community.

You awkwardly out yourself out there and build it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello and welcome to Kind of Preachy. I'm Steph Moore. And Oh, she's on the jump. She's excited today.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

I was really excited. I'm Casey Bryant. I was on the jump. Maybe because it's Saturday morning and I'm more awake than We are we are awake.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

We are having coffee. Is this your second coffee of the day or is this the first?

SPEAKER_01 0:23

This is my second.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

This is my first.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

I'm gonna be brutally honest. Yeah. I had a coffee because I had a weigh in, so I was trying to poop. Come on. I'm not the only person who thinks about that. You are not? But it did not work. So all I did was drink calories. Oh. So I still lost three pounds this month. I weighed in today as well. Yeah. I gained a pound.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

I don't know how. I don't know how. But you know what? It ebbs and flows. It's all good. It's all fine.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I and my three pounds was the two pounds that I gained, and then one pound that I lost. So in two, in two days I'll probably lose two pounds. It's it's not the end of the same thing. It's fine. But yes, this is my second coffee.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

What does it say?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

You shine. Oh, I thought that was a W. So I thought You whine? You shwine? You shwak you.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

But I think that is an N. I think it's a you shine. It is. And I'm I'm a star. Oh, isn't that nice? Thanks, Starbucks. Yes. I've heard that they have to write something on everything now.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Oh, that would annoy the crap out of me.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

I mean for them, like as a worker. Yes. Mine has always been like enjoy. Like it's been nothing. This is the first time I've had like actual. Which is really kind. I I would say that I am not qualified to work at Starbucks, not based on my coffee making ability, because I make really good coffee, but my handwriting is garbage. So no one would have any idea. Same side. Someone would say you're a swine instead of you shine. This lady's handwriting is not good. It's horrible. There's gonna be a lawsuit. I'm I'm trying to give compliments and you're it's actually backfiring. I know. Well, you pulled in this morning, you're in a different car.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

I am in a different car. I am in a different car because my son took my van, my minivan, to Florida, and he is driving him and four other guys, and they're meeting a bunch of other people.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Okay, and can I just I let me just tell you why I was in a full panic mode for her. I was breaking out into a sweat because she is not a Life 360 mom.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I am not a Life 360 mom. Not even a find my iPhone. Not even a find my iPhone. So my I know yes. In the in the day and age when, well, you know, we always joke about we we grew up with a commercial at the end of the night that said, you know, parents, do you know where your kids are? Do you know where your children are? Go look that's that's where that's the age we grew up in.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

And you would think that I would be the exact opposite and and stalking, but I couldn't be more thankful that nobody knew where I was, even though I I don't really think I got myself into much trouble, but I did love the freedom of it, the anonymity and not no, that is not how you say that word. It's a big word. Anonym anonymity?

SPEAKER_01 2:58

I'm not even gonna try to say it because I know I'll butcher it. I am just again, words are hard for the five. But yes, so I so he is on his way in my van to Fort Lauderdale. We did have to clear out the car of alcohol because I had some alcohol in my car, and he thought I was going to forget about it because it was in the backseat that we just had received, and I just put it.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Received, not because she carries alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Not because I carry on the wrist. It was a gift, it was a gift, and it was just in the in the trunk of my car, and I just hadn't gotten it out yet because it was you know, not it in a place where it was safe. And Torin knew that. And so when I pulled it out, Isabel said, Oh, mom ruined your plans because there it is. Because it was like moonshine from from Tennessee, like the Oh, yeah. So yep, I'm like, yeah, you're not I'm not that stupid. I I was the mom, yes. I was the mom. Oh yeah, I was the person who hid all the alcohol to try to get out of the house and did. So I know all the tricks. I know how to get it. God love them. But yes, I still don't do 360.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Yeah, that's wild to me. Okay, so building off of you know, another week, I have really enjoyed the last few weeks because I feel like there has been some like internal progress being made for us both personally.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Absolutely. I said I was gonna go try church. I did not try church this weekend, though. This past weekend, really honest. I am this weekend. I am tomorrow. Yeah. Going to try church. Very excited. Yeah. That was some more progress.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

We're gonna do it. Yeah. So how was your birthday speaking of that? Oh, birthday? It was fine. Have I ever shared no, you probably wouldn't know this. I do not like my birthday. Oh. I'm someone who does not enjoy celebrating my birthday. Like, you know, like it's my party, I'll cry if I want to. Yeah. I feel like there are some people who like get like birthday blues, and I don't really understand why. I am one of those people. Oh. But I didn't cry on my birthday. That was a that was a big deal for me.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah. I don't know why. I think birthdays are just as we get older, birthdays are just birthdays. Like, I don't take off work people, which I great if you if you want to do that, but I never understood that like taking off work or taking off the whole week for to celebrate your birthday.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Oh gosh, my husband has always been big on it's my birthday week. And then it was like birthday month, and I was like, this is insane.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

I think there's like there's two types of people either people who are who are like that all four big birthday celebrations, celebrate all the time, and people are like, eh, it's just yeah, I'm not super into my birthday.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

A couple years ago, I had like a really horrible experience. It had nothing to do with my birthday, it just happened on my birthday. Yes. So put a little damper in it. I yeah, I just there's a lot of self-reflection, and as I said, I don't think I'm a bad person, but man, I'm my heart at myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

All that to say, that's why we didn't, because we were gonna try to come with your birthday. We don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Okay. I'm I'm glad it doesn't come around for another year. Thankful to have another one, but yeah, birthday time.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Oh, it just means you're closer in age to me now, only a year apart.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

This is true. This is true. You're not you're not so old to me. I'm not so old. Until another two months. Oh, well, so we were talking about, you know, just kind of this whole community thing has been a big deal because I feel like there is either the people who have their community or they don't, or you, or you don't. Yeah. And we have come a long way of what does it look like to need it? What does it look like to already have it? And what does it look like when you need to be the one inviting? And what does it look like to be the bold, a bold person to be like, I'm gonna put myself in situations to help myself find it? Okay. And what does that look like for all of the places and specifically church? I mean, I feel like you and I have community outside of church, definitely. Oh yeah, yes, I agree. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Well, in my case, you have to be going to church to have community in church.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

And I definitely go, and I have had seasons of having incredible community at church. Yeah. And I'm not in one of those right now.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

And I we were talking about that before, is like the ebbs and flows of of community, because the very first small group that Doug and I ever got in, a couples group, that small group was amazing, and it lasted for 10 years.

unknown 7:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Or it felt like 10 years. Maybe, maybe it wasn't, but it it was close to it where we were connected for a very long time, and then it just kind of on its own, just kind of, you know, disintegrated. And then we've been in small groups that were not the best small groups. Like, you know, sometimes you have that person who is a who is a one-upper.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Well, not just a one-upper. It's small groups, churches, all these people are made up, like they're awkward people. Yeah. And if you don't know any awkward person, people, I'm sorry to tell you you are the awkward person. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But listen, I there have been times where I have probably been the awkward person. There's been times I've been like, okay, I'm gonna smile. I'm hope it's not too much engagement today. Yeah. I, you know, different strokes for different folks. I mean, like the people are gonna bond with who they bond with, but man, I putting yourself in situations to grow with mutual people going for the same goals doesn't necessarily mean you jive personality-wise with everyone. And you probably shouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Probably not. And that's and that's fine, but I think as long as you have within that group some people who are who are your core, and I think that's what's that's sometimes is a struggle. And you know, I was talking with a friend this week and she was talking about, you know, how she was in a great small group and then kind of got kicked out, but for for reasons because they were just in different circumstances, different life circumstances. And that isn't doesn't feel great, but also completely understand, and then trying to move forward and find another group is just so hard when you're in depending on what life stage you're in.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah. So we switched churches many years ago when I left my last job. I stayed at that church for a few months. My youngest was a baby, and I wasn't forced to leave. I left of my own volition, but all of that being said, of I knew for the program that currently was there to succeed, I couldn't be there.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Yeah. And that's a hard decision to make too. When when you have to opt out, when you're like, okay, my time is done, not only at the church, but the the the group.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Yeah. So I knew that I was not supposed to be doing that job, but also that didn't mean my volunteers, my kids, my parents understood that. Yes. Um, they understood I had another baby, and it was like, okay, well, she just, you know, needs to be mommy mode. But the truth is there were so many more internal things that were happening. It was like, I gotta make big moves in my marriage. I, you know, I do need to focus on my family. I mean, yes, there was, there were those things, but it wasn't just like, I need to go be a stay-at-home mom now. Yeah. So we stayed for a few months, but it was hard. I mean, I mean, I was in children's ministry and kids were come up and hugging on my leg. When are you coming back? And you have these like a new person. Well, I guess it wasn't necessarily a new person, but somebody else was trying to grow that role. Yeah. And it was my responsibility to let it happen in the best way it could. And for me to be there and watching it probably wasn't the best thing. But we had an incredible small group at that time. So while even though I was attending another church, I was coming back on I believe it was Wednesday nights at that point, to go to that small group. And we continued that for a few years. Oh, did you? Yeah. But that was as much as it was a great small group, was doing a disservice because we were never going to get fully involved in the new church that we were. That's what's hard.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

That is what's hard, is switching churches or trying to and staying with small group. But yeah, you're right. You you probably won't be able to find community very easily if you're still within the same group. But then again, you're like, but I have a great group and I was still want to do community with them. So what do you what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

And it was really hard. And now that group has disbanded too. And I just feel like life is a very good thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

But I think that happens. I think it's very, very normal for groups to last, and some of them can last for a long time, and then they just kind of disband and move on. That's relationships in general. I yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

But I I would say in looking at finding, you know, community is hard because you're putting awkward people, quirks, belief systems, you're putting all of those socioeconomics. I mean, like you're putting a lot of different factors into a mixed bag and hoping like Yes. Okay. Get along. It comes out well. I hope you all get along together. But you have to have a willingness to move towards people even when it feels awkward.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

But I even think about like the disciples. They were all thrown together. They all had different backgrounds and different, even socio socionomical, right? There we go. Backgrounds too. And they also competed with each other too. Yeah. Which makes me laugh because I'm like, oh, they they try to one up. No, I I'm Jesus' favorite. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 12:25

And I also kind of look at some of the ages, you know, of like some of the most of these disciples were young. Yeah, yeah. Teenagers early 20s. Young, young, and they're building and all that kind of stuff. And I feel like maybe like at the time that I I had really great community, I was young.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

And it was such a I think you're more bold and and willing to put yourself out there when you're younger because you don't you crave it.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

But then life changes and you become a little more set in your ways. Yeah. And then I found my expectations of other people being higher. But also I wasn't necessarily willing to do it myself, which I was like, oh, I had to really call myself out on that. Of like, when did I I went from being the inviter to being like, I expect you to invite me now. I've done my I've paid my dues.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

And I also think for me, I think there's a comfortability about being alone. About oh yeah. Because I I don't know if you you saw this when we got Joe Flacco as our quarterback when when Burrow was hurt and he was at a and he was talking about how he was at a restaurant eating by himself. And he's like, you know, I used to look at these young guys. When I was younger, I wouldn't I would look at guys older who were eating by themselves. I'm like, oh, that's horrible. And he's like, no, I realize it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

It's amazing. And later that day, they were in a interview with Jamar Chase, and they asked him, they're like, hey, would you ever eat alone? He's like, no, I would never eat alone. And it makes me think because I'm like, oh, he's younger, so he craves commu community. Like when we're younger, I think we do crave community. Want to be around, want to be out, want to go do everything. And when as we get older, I am way more introverted now. Way more, I want to be by myself.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

I don't want to go out.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

But I am like a total full well.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

That would be a very long story that we can totally cut out too. See, look at me.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Okay. Keep going. I feel like you can be really comfortable being alone.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

But also become really isolated without realizing it.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah. I mean, which is where probably most of us are. But yeah. Am I am I comfortable being isolated? Kind of.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

So we talked about like kind of identifying ways that maybe we were skating by. And what are I I'm wondering if there are markers that we can feel like we have isolated ourselves. And I would say one of those is I mean, okay, this is gonna sound bad. No, say it. It's not bad. Okay. I feel like whether or not I showed up at church or not, no one would notice.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Is that a marker that you are isolating yourself?

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yes, because I agree. I because for me, that's still putting the responsibility of somebody noticing on somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

I would think one would be this is this is me, what I tend to do is you get invited and you continue to say no.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Oh yeah, they would have a better time without me. Or I just don't want to. I just don't want to. I'm more comfortable. I don't want to put, you know, nice.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

I don't want to have conversations. I don't want to have to, you know, have small talk or sometimes I don't want to put a bra on. Do you not want to put a bra on? And speaking of that, I need to find new ones because of course that's where you lose your weight.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Yeah. Well, w while you're just really setting us up to go in another direction, but I'm gonna try and I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

I'm all over like my mind is all over the place right now. Clearly. Clearly.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Well, I mean, okay, the truth is I feel like community gets a little harder in midlife because I think when you are younger and you're building things, you're all kind of building things together. And then when things start to branch off, marriages look different, how your children look different, the ages of which you have to your responsibilities look different, and then all of a sudden now you're you're coasting and things, and it's time you've got the ability to add things back in. Yeah. It almost feels easier to not yes, way easier not to add things back in. But it's not the wiser decision.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

No. The easier decision is never the wiser decision.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

So we are not meant to have solo journey. So why is it so much easier to feel like it's easier to do it on our own?

SPEAKER_01 16:48

I think that's just human nature to say that we can do it on our own. Pull so by our bootstraps, like a don't worry about me. I'm fine.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

I feel like for me, it's protection to not put myself out there to get hurt. If I don't put myself in a situation, they can't hurt me. That's from from if I'm being my most authentic, vulnerable self. Yeah, there are situations and groups I don't put myself in because I don't want my feelings to be hurt. The same way when we turn this camera on every day, we're adjusting ourselves to be like, oh, how do I not look, you know?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Our first 10 minutes is always about what what we look like on camera last week.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Which is, you know, but I I know No one else cares. Only only we do. There's been things I've been invited to throughout my entire life that I'm like, you are better suited for that appearance-wise, physicality-wise, conversationally, like you may be closer to this other person, I would feel awkward. Like, how do we get past that is going to be awkward? We're gonna do it anyway.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

That's a great question. Other than stepping out and just doing it. That's the only that's the only that's the only thing I can think of. But I'm I'm a little different. Where I think my whole life I've been so extroverted. From high school, college, you name it, I was always the one going out five days, six days a week, all the things, and even my jobs having to be extroverted. Yeah. Where now I am completely introverted, and I would I don't and going out and having to have conversations makes me want to like literally throw up. And it's like, did I reach my max?

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Did have I hit my high point on being being the extrovert? And I do think that like life circumstances change. If you have done like the the personality things, I would say my personality is different than we went when it was five years ago. Oh, I yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

I agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

So I am someone I love I want community, I create community, I love having conversations, but also I need alone time, like I need way more alone time than than I ever have. Yeah, I agree. And it's hard because I think I get comfortable in being okay with that. But I don't necessarily think it's the right place for me to stay there.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

No, I know, I know it's not the right place for us to stay. I know that, you know, we we we should go out and put ourselves out there and find community for me particularly. In order for me to find community within a church, I have to go to a church.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Uh hey, big steps, we're gonna make a move tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

We're gonna make a move tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

We're gonna make a move tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

We're gonna make a move tomorrow. Um I gotta figure out some and I guess I should try them all out.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

So I have to tell you, so this morning, as I was like gone and going through this, I was like, I'm gonna call my mom. Because she's older, she's very well established. She should be very wise. She is wise. I know she. And of course, my mom and dad are both retired, so they're both there. Like they're the speakerphone, like I can hear my dad. Because everything else.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

But then again, this next generation also uses her speakerphone when they talk. I'm like, people.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

I do it at home. I love, I love a speakerphone at home.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Earbuds.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Headphones. Go on. I don't talk to people. I don't I don't do it around others. Oh, okay, great. As long like I will go and I will go somewhere else in chat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Okay. But yes. Go on. I'm sorry. Digress.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Again. So let me okay. Before we start on like how do we do it? Let me just get out some of my fears. Great. How do I walk into something that's already established? Is there room for me? Is there? Am I gonna feel judged? Are they gonna ask me why I'm leaving? Why do I what did I do wrong that I need something new? Because I don't want to say anything bad about any places. Yeah, I agree. I think when you're moving on, it's not necessary. I don't think moving on and finding new things is necessarily because what you had was bad. It's just you might be into a new place. But what a conversation is like I am already worst-case scenario in my head of what do those conversations look like. Ooh. I've had 10 conversations of walking into a building before it's already happened.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Where I, walking into a building, don't want anyone to talk to me. I just wanna like walking into a new church. Is that okay? Don't talk to me. Just let me go.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Why is that? Is that because you what what is the fear there of don't talk to me?

SPEAKER_01 21:51

I just don't want to engage until I until I have a better understanding.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

But how in the world so but okay, as someone who's not Let a church, you would not tell people to not approach new people.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

No, it's the it's the exact opposite. It's the exact opposite because within, we always say that within the first seven minutes from the somebody pulls into a parking lot to before before service even started, it's the first seven minutes, they're they've already decided whether they like the a church or not. And I would say that just not even a church, like any type of business or building, within the first seven minutes, you're gonna know, okay, yes, I like this place, or I don't. And so it's always about that first impression. It's always about making sure that you know people are feeling welcome. And as somebody who who led a church, I'm now saying, uh, don't don't make me don't come don't come talk to me.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

But when I came, you can talk to me, I'll protect her.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

But I did that, I did that when I went to to my former church. Yeah. I I walked in and was greeted, and it was amazing. But I also after that first day or that first service, I sat in the back by myself.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

I don't think there's I think someone can gay, I think someone can be approached. I think you can approach someone and be friendly and you can get the vibe off of them of like, hey, they're not ready. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Maybe I can put my RBF on. Actually, that might give them more motivation to come to the club.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

I feel like mine's just always on.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

I is I don't know what, and maybe I should. It's not that I'm trying to not be welcoming, I'm just or want to feel welcome. And I know I will. I know if well, one, if they if they don't say hi to me, I'm probably gonna be like, eh, you know, this is probably not the best church. But I also don't want them to be like, what's your name? What's your address? What's your email address? Like that I think that in my mind is what I go to when I walk into a church. Like, if this is my first time, don't try to get all my crap. Like, just just let me walk in and say hi and see and just have a conversation and see if I like this. Yeah. And then, you know, if I do, then I'll give you all my crap.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

I just want to give you their first time welcome gift.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

I don't I I have all thoughts about those.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

I don't think they're bad. You know, I I don't I don't think they're bad, but also I understand because I walked in a church the last time I walked into a church trying to find a new place. I was like, thank you, Lord, for having a newborn. I'm gonna go sit in this cry room even though she's not crying. Yeah, I get it. Do you want to carry a fake baby in?

SPEAKER_01 24:31

I'm gonna carry, no, no, no one would believe that. No one would believe that. And so I I want to try all different types of churches, small, large, yeah, multi-site. You know, I've already been through a site with with screens and all that. So I'm like, okay, should do I need to try a different one or I don't know. I'm I'm gonna try them all.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

I'd love to try different things, but so one of the things I asked my mom, like of luck you were you just ran it back in. I did. Well, because I I said, you know, you are people who are very established in your church. Um, you've been there going there for a long time, and you have community in church because they're both heavy servers, but they also have a lot of community outside of church, they have incredible balance. And I said, you know, what does it look like when somebody comes in? What responsibility do you feel to make somebody feel welcome? Yeah. And my mom was great. She was like, Well, of course, being kind, you always invite. Yeah. Because there could be somebody who is absolutely needing that. So I think it's okay to judge the vibe on, you know, what somebody needs right now. But she, I said, Well, she, her and my dad both leave set lead separate Bible studies. And they both said in their current Bible studies, they have people who have been both attending for maybe around a month who have not decided, but decided like to give the church a try. I'm gonna get involved in something right off the bat and see what it has to offer.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Yeah. Which I've a lot of people have done that. And I think it goes both ways.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

So they said you need to give it a few weeks. In fact, one said weeks, one said months. And if you could have seen my face, I was like, I can't. Wow. I don't know how I would give anything three months before you jump in. Before you jump in. But then my dad jumped in because I called my mom, so my naturally my dad jumped in. Because, you know, he's got and he is on speakerphone, so he can hear. It's I he's wise too. Um so he said, you know, if you're in this journey of look online, listen to their sermons, don't go in just like because everybody, you know, like oh yeah, everyone recommends it. I mean it's a you know, do your due diligence, make sure it's backing up biblically what you believe to be true. Actually, let me rephrase that. Backing up biblically to be what biblically says it's true. Yes, not for your own justifications of what you do. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

So I'm sorry, I the Bible should not justify you.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Yes. Yeah, yes. Look at you.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Look at me with a little tidbit every once in a while.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

I love it. So uh yes. So I think it's okay to walk in and have something surface level. Yeah. And I don't think that should be a detractor of whatever. I think when you come back the next time, maybe it'll look a little bit different. Things can build. Community is not gonna happen overnight. No, you're not gonna walk in and be like, this is the place. I don't know if church has ever felt like true love for somebody of like, this is my soulmate church, this is where I belong. I've never walked in somewhere. Actually, I don't even think I've had that with anybody ever. Oh. Like immediate?

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Uh Doug and I, yeah. Wow. We dated, no, well, when I met Doug, I was in E at Eastern and we met. I packed up all my stuff because we just graduated and moved in with him. We were engaged four months later.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Uh I was 17 when I met my husband. I did I we did last. I but it wasn't like Yeah, you guys dated for years. Yeah, we dated for five years. And but we still but we dated for four months. Okay, we dated for five years, still babies. We got married when we were 22. I got married we were still babies. I was twenty four when I got married. Yeah. Still baby. Now that my baby is 22, that's still a baby.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

It is still a baby. Yes, yes. I I agree. What were we going with that?

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Oh no, you that the I'm just saying, like, I I don't know if you can walk into a place immediately and be in like, this is the place.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

I yes and no, because Doug did like when he went into to our our the church we were at first service, he crying whole thing new right away.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Okay, but let me just say if you don't have that experience your first time, that doesn't mean that's not your place.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

True, because I did not. I mean, meaning that I didn't get it, like it took me a long time to understand, but I just kept coming back because I I was intrigued.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

I was also intrigued, but my husband adapted and felt welcome, like this is my place right away. Yes. I did not. It became my place. Yeah. But it took me a lot longer to warm up. Yeah. So I just want to give clearance whether you have like an incredible experience right off the bat, like I think there was wisdom in them saying it needs you need to give it time. Oh, I agree with that. If the things align biblically, you're getting receiving something from the message. But also true, I mean, like, not all messages are meant to be feel good, like hype you up. Like if that's what the entire service is, then you're probably not in the right place because No, and I think that's like the first couple years, like everything is so exciting and new, and you're learning new stuff.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

And then when you've been going somewhere for for a while, you start to hear the same things over and over again.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

And and there's nothing wrong with it. That I mean, that's just actually normal, totally normal. And at that point in time is when you have to be willing to grow your you can't just depend on a 60-minute service to be the one that's only fueling you and your growth with God.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

That's when you have to continue to to find that, which is why you need to be in community because that's where you're gonna go in depth more into the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Yes. And I just I I don't want anyone to fall into the trap or the lie that, well, community's easy and it'll just feel so natural. It is not, is I mean, community is relationships and it's not easy. No, you have to put work in and that that's intimidating.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Yes. Well, yeah, it's intimidating because you like you said before, are they gonna like me? Are they gonna judge me? If I share this story, are they gonna think differently of me? How how open and honest and vulnerable can I be with these people?

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Uh yes, yeah. I I because that's definitely where I am. And I think other people may be on the like, I just expect instant, I expect effortless, I expect chemistry.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

And I that's probably unrealistic.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

No, I yes, that is definitely unrealistic.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

But I can see where like you build yourself up of but I think we keep hearing stories of how amazing people's groups were, and so that's then that becomes the expectation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

So I think we hear stories over and over again of oh my gosh, we just we just signed up online for this random group, and it was amazing. And we've been to and my first group was like that. We were together for so long. And so you do hear these stories, which then in your mind that's the expectation. Yeah, and that's actually probably more rare.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Also, I I the last time that we probably joined churches, social media wasn't a thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Oh, yeah. Uh and back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Well, I mean, think about if we are checking out churches, we are most likely checking out their social media.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Oh, social media, their website.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

We're looking at their website, we're looking at everything they put out.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Because you're right. You're when your dad said, you know, check them out, look at their like research, listen to their to their messages or their sermons, whatever you want to call it, before you even go, because you're you're gonna know right away before you even walk in the door if you even like it.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

So you you kind of you've you've you've done your homework before you've come in. And I think that was really wise rather than just like let's pick this one. Yeah. You know, which I just thought was real that was really wise. But I I would just say in the social media arena, as someone who's a social media volunteer as well. She is. What it's the same way your social media, like in your real life, most likely you're not putting you're putting your best out there. You're putting your best out there.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

So your best, your funniest.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yeah, we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Or the most growth, you know, something we're probably not putting the clips out on here of where we felt like, man, we really flub that. Sometimes we do.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Well, actually, we do do that. Um but I don't feel the norm.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

We do do 13-year-old boy skimmer.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Sometimes it comes out every once in a while.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

It does come out every once in a while.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Well, I mean, real community takes real intentional effort on both parts. Yeah. But I think it at least on our end, there's a lot more responsibility on our end, not to, you know, what is it, you know, fight or flight.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Yeah. And put the responsibility on other people to make you feel welcome.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

You have you have to be willing to.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

I think I went on autopilot that community was working really, really well for a very long time. Yeah. And then all of a sudden I realized it wasn't. And I don't even know if I realized right away. But then when I realized the absence of it, it was like, oh, wait a minute. I got so stuck in how things just automatically went. We get up, we go, and I realized not only wasn't community not coming to me, I also wasn't providing it for anybody else.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Oh yeah, it's it's a it's a two-way street.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

It yes, but it took me a lot longer to find my own responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Because that's the other thing. If if you're if you're just somebody who's just taking, taking, taking and not, you know, receiving from a group and not and not giving back. Like no one wants to be in community. Not saying that's you, but I'm just saying, you know, if we have people who are who just want to receive everything and not give back.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

I don't necessarily feel that's where I want to. No, I don't believe that. But I can see that there were moves that I was making of welcoming and connecting people that it's somewhere not reciprocated down the line, I wasn't doing the same way that I was before. Yep. And maybe that's just because the rhythms of that particular community weren't set up for that way anymore. And I feel like that's probably very normal. You get just you you have a volunteer role and you meet with the people who are on your volunteer team and you see the same faces and then you start having conversations with the same people. It may be very surface level. How are you today? You know, like, you know, I hope you're having a good week, you know. My husband's in education, so there's always, you know, like, how's it going with the schools? Or like your sports team, or you know, like it's just very surface level. And I found that, like, wow, I'm really surface level with a lot of people. And not going deep with and not going deep, but also my plate was very full of surface.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Oh, yeah. Well, that can be annoying.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Yeah, and that's kind of where I realize I am right now of like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

So that does that mean you should take away stuff so that you can have more space to go deeper. So take away some of the more the surface level volunteer. I'm not saying you're gonna give up volunteering, but it just like it if you're looking to go deeper and you have all of these places where you're just surface level, where can you cut to have more room?

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Valet, I'm trying to figure it out right now.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

I I that's that's what I'm evaluating right now. Okay. A, am I in the right place? Am I in the right roles? Am I being effective in the same way? Am I receiving in the same way? I still love the messages, I still love the people. I d when I talk about like, you know, feeling, you know, it's never necessarily a reflection on other people's responsibility. Even when I'm saying like I was hoping community was it has been a progression of me to figure out what's my role and not feeling comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Yeah. And I think the same way that I we have talked about with you and with everybody. I mean, it's okay to realize there's an issue and start working on that internally.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah. You know, God always says, you know, in order to grow the brass fruit, we have to prune. So there's sometimes that we have to prune things that oh, and I 100% believe sometimes, you know, sometimes things are pruned for you.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Sometimes they they get pruned for you. And sometimes you have to do the pruning. Yes. And I think some things were pruned for you, and I'm having to do some pruning on my own. Yeah. Both are necessary.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

So yeah, uh that's that's yeah. It's an awkward season. And it's I think that's the other thing. It's hard to be in an awkward season of trying to do this when you see everybody else seem to it not be awkward. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Well, especially with us putting this out there. So people who are who who listen are, you know, are a few hundred people who listen. Hi, thank you. Love you.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

It's because I'm a self-conscious person. Yes. I'm working on it. I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

That you're now going in there with an extra layer of like, oh, did they hear the podcast? Oh, ooh, what are they what are they gonna think because I said this.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Well, I this is not to be like, oh my gosh, we are this famous podcast where people are people know who we are, but it would be funny if somebody walked in like, you guys are the ones who do a podcast who really dissect church hurt walking into a church.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Oh my gosh. I I got Oh, I I probably did tell you this that speaking of church hurt, that I got LinkedIn message by the same lady twice saying to me, Hey, I am an expert at church hurt and trauma and would love to talk to your congregation about church hurt and trauma.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

I also feel like an expert in church hurt and trauma.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

And I and so I just keep ignoring it, but she keeps showing up. I'm like, okay. I I no. No, thank you. No, thank you. Not right now. Not right now. I say that and be like, man, but there are people who are seeking that out.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yeah. Can I also just clarify not to sound like a goodie, you know, whatever. I said I'm working on it. The truth is I'm asking God to work on it in me. Look at you. No, I just I just I I do sometimes I have to be careful. I use a lot of eye language.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yes. I feel.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

I feel this. I you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

But that's good therapy too, instead of blaming it on somebody else. So we're not also blaming it on God, but it is it's both.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

I'm not blaming on God, I'm blaming on people. I I I'm taking ownership of my feelings, but also I am this isn't I think when we talk about working on things, like this isn't self-help.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

No. This is you have to ask God first.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

We have to ask, yes. But I just don't ever want that to be an ignored, like when I say I'm working on things, I'm not, I'm letting I'm I'm I'm doing the work to put have him do the work in me. Like I'm I'm showing up to let him show up in me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

And you know what I've never prayed for? No. I've never prayed for God to show me the right church. Really? And I just thought about that. When you said go to God first, and as I'm trying to to church hop, church shop, shop, hop, all the same thing. Like maybe I should go to God first and be like, hey God, show me the right church for me.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Yeah. And that may even be showing That's my face. That may even be showing you places to find what you like and what don't like. So when you do find the right one, it does. You know.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

I could end up back where I was starting where it all began. Absolutely. And and that's very, it's very it's that's a very distinct possibility. But sometimes you have to take journeys to figure out where you need to land. Yeah. I agree. Yes. I keep saying I agree. I'm not trying to say I agree again, but there we go. I just keep saying it. I don't even know. Like at this point in time, I have said I agree, I think at least a hundred times.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

I agree. We have been called out that there could be a kind of preachy drinking game of how many times we just repeat like buzzwords that we just latch on to. Hopefully, it's not in the morning, like right now. I didn't put anything in our condoning that. I'm just saying that you know we we do tend to latch on to words. It's fine. So okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

It is always Steph's job to bring us back online. Always. It is my job to take us off rails and go in a totally different direction and your job to bring us back.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Okay. So here's here's the next thing. Yes, okay. Here's the next thing. What do we think healthy community looks like? Assuming we're finding a place that's biblically based. Okay. Welcoming a place that we can see planting not only ourselves but our our our families. What would a healthy community look for? What does it look like? And I think this is for someone who's looking for something new, but also it's a good evaluation tool of if I'm currently in a place where I'm happy, is it also healthy? And what am I doing to make that a welcoming place for others so they can feel that too?

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Are you are you are you are you growing spiritually? Are they growing spiritually? Are you hearing truth? Truth might not always be the easiest thing to hear and not just fluff. Of course, as we said, Bipply based. And I think it's a place that has all types of genres and ages and intergenerational is really important to me. Yes. Where you hear everyone from in our age group from young 20s to you know, new in life to people in their 60s. Someone is vacuuming. I hear it. See? I don't think anybody else can hear it. Maybe they can. We'll keep we're gonna keep going. Okay, so what for you, what is yours? What is your for you?

SPEAKER_00 43:17

What do you think is the I think you are I think you are 100% right. I also feel that the call for I think it needs to feel genuine.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Yeah. And I love places that if if they make a mistake or if they said something like, hey, we we are willing to own up to mistakes because no one is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Yeah, I think I'm looking for transparency. I think I'm that's the better word to use. Looking for authenticity. Yes. A big one for me is that as much as it's welcoming to that, I don't want to see people stuck in a victim cycle.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Because I think it's okay to come. Come in somewhere is like I'm in a really kind of a broken place. Yes, but if you never get out of that broken place. But I don't I want to see how you break out of that. I want to see, you know, like healing.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

And sometimes it takes a while. I was in a broken place for a while.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Now I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

I would like to not only hear messages on prayer and faithfulness and growth. I want to visually see it too. Yeah. A practice what you preach, if you will. And I want to see things that feel authentic, not business. Ooh. Okay. Okay. And I say that as, and I'm sure you understand this as some we've both worked in churches. Yes. Like we we've peeked behind the curtain. And I think that makes us a little more skeptic. Skeptical?

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Skeptical. A little? No comment. No, I mean, I yes. When you when if you work at a church and you see behind the scenes, you you realize that a church is is just like And they have to run.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

I mean they have to they have to run.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

I'm not saying it's just I There is a there is a business aspect to it for anything to be to run well. There has to be some type of business.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

I'm not denying that in any way, shape, or form, but I want to feel good about it. Yeah. I just want to feel good about it. I don't necessarily want to leave feeling good about myself.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

No, because sometimes, I mean, if if you walk out of there after a message, after a sermon, and it hits you and you're like, ooh, that kind, that kind of that kind of cut me deep.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

That's actually great. I want to feel challenged. Yes. I want to feel reflective. But I also want to feel like there's something to sink my teeth in after I feel challenged.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Like just not feel challenged and be like, okay, go.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Yes, go in peace, serve the Lord. And then it's like there's no callbacks to it. Yeah. Like if you do a huge thing on prayer, I'm not this is not an example of anywhere. I'm just putting it out there. And it's like, this is how you should be praying. This is, you know, and then you don't see those same elements of prayer like going forward. I'd be like, red flag. Yeah. I don't want a motivational speaker. No. I'm not into that. I'm not into motivation. I'm not into politics. I'm not into I I I want to be in for what the Bible says. I want to be in for what the Bible is saying to me, my current situation. I also want to be into what I need to be doing to follow.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah. And I love speakers who speakers. I love pastors who are who are very human. Yes. Meaning that they show their scars, that they aren't the people who say that they're always the hero. Because I've sat through messages from different people who they always are the hero in every story. They always are the ones who come through and save the day. And I'm like, man, that is Jesus' job.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Well, I yeah, I think you're right. I think we're looking for honesty. Yeah. I think we're looking for accountability. I think we're looking for grace.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Oh, yeah. Lots of grace.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

But there's also that element of hospitality.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Go right back to that.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

I don't want to run in and because what we need is not necessarily what somebody else needs.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

No, I yes, there has to be hospitality. Even if I'm running in and I don't want to talk to anybody, I still want someone to say hi to me and open up a door for me.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Because in two months when you are ready, I'm going, I'm going tomorrow. No, no, no, no, no. But what I'm saying is if we come in the building and we're not really, really ready to be approached, yeah, after a couple of weeks of going, of like, okay, this felt good. I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna go back. I don't really want to be approached yet. Eventually you're gonna want to be approached. Yeah. Or you're gonna want to approach somebody else. And know where to go. Yes. So yeah, these are all and listen, uh as I've I feel like we have to say so often, people will disappoint us. There will be things that like don't hit. Yeah. And we can be a part of that too. Yes. So I have disappointed a lot of people. And those things that we're looking for need to go, the, you know, the grace, the hospitality, the accountability, the vulnerability, all those things we're looking for in churches we need to come from us too.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Yeah. So but as I talk to other people who are in the same journey that I'm in, meaning that they're, you know, looking for for a church. It's it's fair always fascinating to hear what they're what they're looking for and what they want. And I'm like, 'cause everyone is so different. It is.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

It is.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

And I think that's what like when like my prayer for when we like maybe I should pray for God to show me.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

Not maybe, we definitely are now. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

But when I pray, like that specific prayer of okay, God show me the right church. I love what you said, the right church for me. Because the right church for me might not be the right church for you or for, you know, Sally Sue sitting over there. That's my mom. Sally Sue. But just to say there are so many churches out there, there's a lot of great churches out there, they're all different, and there is one for you.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Yeah. If you feel like you're in a season of I've got this on my own, I just want you to reflect a little harder that that maybe not maybe, I actually think you're wrong.

unknown 49:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Uh no, I mean, there's times for healing and there's times you got to remove yourself from situations, and those are valid. But if you've been in that place for a long time, it may be time to ask yourself if it's time to move yourself back in because we're not meant to do this life alone. I agree. I feel like that's a really good place to stop for the week.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

I think it is too, because I have to look at the time because girls get girls getting waxed. That sounded really bad. That's not how I want to do that. My eyebrows, okay, people? Eyebrows.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

But uh not today. I'm gonna get my nails filled. Okay. Um talons here. This is what I do. I take us off or else. Uh um I couldn't love you more for it. Hey, thanks for being with us another week. We'll see you next time. Bye.