Off The Clock with B Scott

MARK QUINTON - PRO ARCHER | Ep069 | Off The Clock with B Scott

• Off The Clock with B Scott • Season 2 • Episode 69

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Ever wonder what it takes to become truly exceptional at archery? Mark Quinton, a 70-year-old archery expert who has cycled over a million arrows through his shoulders, pulls back the curtain on decades of competitive and hunting experience.

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Meeting Mark Quinton, Archery Expert

Speaker 1

It's five o'clock and you're off the clock with B Scott Now today we have as our guest Mark Quinton, who is an archery expert. He's old school, he's been doing it a long time. Got part of the Riggingham crew with us today. We're going to ask him questions. He's going to teach us he does a lot of coaching kind of the proper way to shoot. So he's going to walk us through that and tell us about his experience and you know urban hunting. So, guys, before we get into it, though, make sure you leave a like, subscribe and hit the bell for notifications.

Speaker 2

My God man, here we go. It's always a race car. That's why I'm with the Hoyt, because everybody on the dark side Listen, because everybody doubts Hoyt, I'm team, hoyt I don't think everybody doubts Hoyt.

Speaker 3

It's a preference man, I know it's a preference.

Speaker 1

I've shot Matthews my whole life and I do exceptionally well with it. I don't even want to change.

Speaker 3

I mean I could mess with any of them.

Speaker 5

I mean you killed seven spikes with it last year. I cut, cut.

Speaker 1

That's not true guys. Ask Tim if he's going to shoot a Hoyt Nope.

Speaker 6

Probably not yeah, probably not. That's my newest tattoo.

Speaker 1

Obviously you're set up with Matthews. That's correct, All right. What led you into building that with Matthews?

Speaker 4

Well, I had shot for Hoyt for 25 years, represented Hoyt and I had a bad shoulder injury that took a long time to get better and turned in my contract so that I'm not shooting anymore. All of us, you know that doesn't last very long. You get the itch again. I started to do some strength training. It's hard when you're 70. They bring everything back. But I got back where I thought I might be able to shoot and I made a phone call to Levi Morgan, who I've known for years, and Levi said I think I got something around here, I'll set you up. So not only did he set me up, but he sent me about $5,000 worth of brand new equipment, quad rests, all the sights and everything, brand new case and a contract. And he said that way, there you know, it's kind of like how they retire somebody from the yankees.

Speaker 4

Yeah, you know, they get them set back up again and I, I cycled a lot of arrows and won us, uh, the state, uh olympic, senior olympics with it. Not scores that I shot before, but enough to beat anybody in arkansas. Most arkansas shooters aren't that good. I found out so really, wow, so shockingly told me he was an arkansas shooter.

Speaker 2

I knew he wouldn't give a shot anybody in Arkansas. Most Arkansas shooters aren't that good I found out Really. So Shockley told me he was an Arkansas shooter. I knew he wasn't that good of a shot. You're talking about two different levels of shooting.

Speaker 6

I've been there.

Speaker 1

I know what they do. It's so crazy.

Speaker 3

He has the good enough shooting skills, so do you also bow hunt.

From Hoyt to Matthews: Professional Journey

Speaker 4

I do bow hunt and about arrows. I sat down one afternoon because I was bored and decided to find out how many arrows maybe I've cycled through my shoulders Over a million. So when you start doing that you're like well, no wonder why I'm having shoulder problems. But I also bow hunt. The days of running from tree to tree and climbing up a tree, those days are gone. I don't trust my body enough to do that, but I still hunt the urban hunt in the village. It's enough for me. The first year I donate every year for the urban hunt, second one for myself for meat, and then I buck hunt. After that I look for whatever's big. If I get one on camera. I try to get him when he's not coming out at 1.30 in the morning, which in the village usually is the way it runs.

Speaker 4

But yeah, I do bull hunt. I bull hunted my whole life in all different states. Never paid to hunt, except the $75 to be in the urban hunt, right. So you really like that urban hunting stuff. For me it's. It's. For me it's easy. I mean I can walk to my stand where one of my stands is. Uh, it's good because you're donating it, um, you can find places in the village that might not be, uh, next to somebody's house. You know it has to be 50 yards away, but that's too close for me. I don't want to know what time a guy um turns his lights on or what channel he's watching on his tv. I try to find a place that's too close for me. I don't want to know what time a guy um turns his lights on or what channel he's watching on his tv. I try to find a place that's a little more private, I understand, and there's areas there to do that. Is there big bucks in areas like there?

Speaker 3

is big bucks in there. What's your biggest buck you've killed in a situation like that?

Speaker 4

I'm a meat hunter, so I never counted a tine in my life, and I've never gotten a monster deer. I've hunted them. I've seen them over the years. I can. I could tell you 20 stories about big bucks that were were look like they were accessible from where I was standing. You just never got the shot off. So I'm I've never killed a really big buck.

Speaker 2

That I still got time right oh yeah, that's right, it's never over. It can be the first time in the hunt this year. You.

Speaker 1

I mean it seems to me.

Speaker 2

I don't know you went to Matthews, so I don't know. I'm shooting a raven right now. Oh okay, you'll get it. A raven is bad, yes.

Speaker 4

I figure I've earned it. Yeah, you earned it. I've had a lot of years where I've missed or maybe not made the greatest shot with a raven that just doesn't seem like it's ever going to happen you can stretch it further and further, and further.

Speaker 1

So fast, man. I mean, it's a game changer really.

Speaker 4

I've gotten uh 15, I think it's a number in the village with that raven and I've seen every one of them drop so it's just a lethal uh, lethal machine.

Speaker 5

What broadhead are you shooting on that raven that's a swat.

Speaker 4

No, you're all going. What's that?

Speaker 2

it's it's.

Speaker 4

It's uh, uh um, mechanical that guys that are veterans make, and I picked it up one time eight years ago and haven't used any. Haven't really any problem, so you stick with what works. Who sells those? It's swat. As you know, swat is broadheads yeah, right from them, yeah. I got a question for you.

Speaker 2

So you know, you see, it's kind of controversial. You see a lot of people that are kind of like against crossbows versus bows. But, like in your situation, you know, it's not ideal for you to pull back a compound anymore. So do you think that they should have like some kind of on people that can use crossbows versus a?

Speaker 4

regular bow. That would depend on the deer population. I mean, take the urban hunt, for instance. The whole purpose of that is to reduce the deer population so there's less motor vehicle accidents with deer, and it's been done. We've shown great numbers. The numbers of deer hit by car has gone way down over the past eight years, and that's really what we're looking for.

Urban Hunting in Hot Springs Village

Speaker 4

When I say we, I'm on the board of directors of Hot Springs Village, so I'm inside of how everything works. I also was the one that organized to make the urban hunt come internally. It was run by Arkansas Bowhunters Association and I was sitting with a bunch of guys that were part of that and I said why don't we run it ourselves? They go. We don't have anybody that knows enough about archery to do that. Well, there goes a lot of my time because we set it up and now it runs like clockwork. All I do now is I run the shooting line because I know how to run a shooting line. I don't want any accidents there. So that answers your question. I want them in the village because I want to reduce the deer population. We had 237 kills last year that were turned in In the Hot Springs Village In the Hot Springs Village. Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 1

That's a lot of deer. Crazy amount of deer.

Speaker 2

And how long is that season? The?

Speaker 4

season starts September 1st and it runs through February 28th. Okay, so the good thing about that is the way the village most hunting places work. It's easy to get a deer the first day. 90% of people that really hunt are going to score one the first day because they're all stupid, yeah, but they get smart really fast and it gets harder and harder later and later, before you see them just like anywhere else but there's more pressure in the village because there's more people in the village um so more hunters or people, people, I mean.

Speaker 3

You're saying people.

Speaker 4

One of my stands I walk. I know everybody that walks dogs on several streets because I can see them go by and it's interesting to watch how the deer react to that. They don't. They may sit and watch till the person goes by, and then they'll just continue with their daily routine.

Speaker 3

It's become a pretty big deal.

Speaker 5

It has, you know, this urban hunting so for someone like me who doesn't know anything about that, what do you have to do to be like qualified to to hunt in the village? Like could anybody just go up there and buy a tag and hunt in the village, or do you have to draw for it? Or how does that work the way?

Speaker 4

it works is you have to be a homeowner or a guest of a homeowner. So for instance, I own a home or a lot and I have two, two different tags that I could use for that, mine and a guest the guest that comes in on the tag. If, let's say, I bring you in, you have to go to the hunter orientation which is on August 9th, and that's to talk about the urban hunt, the rules. You have to qualify, you have to shoot and qualify. So those are the two ways. So if you want to get in, go to the POA and buy a lot. You can buy one for a couple hundred bucks probably. Then you have to pay your assessments every month. But I don't know if you guys have ever been on a really nice lease. It's going to cost you a lot more to be on a lease than it is to do that.

Speaker 1

Oh yeah, Without a doubt.

Speaker 4

So you can buy a lot for like a couple hundred bucks. I'm not an expert on it but, there's lots at the POA that are unbuildable. You can't build on them because they're on a cliff.

Speaker 5

So yeah, some of those, they'll be glad to give away if you'll pay the assessments every month. So what about say for me, if I went up there and went door knocking and got permission and the homeowner let me hunt it as a guest, I would be able to do that as long as I went and shot the archery challenge or whatever you were talking about and the homeowner would have to attend the orientation with you, and the village does not allow solicitation, so you'd probably be arrested for doing that.

Speaker 1

Oh, okay, you're talking about if he didn't go that route, like if he just got permission from somebody and then just went into that dude's backyard.

Speaker 5

He can't wait. Solicitation. Like I wouldn't be able to ask the homeowners.

Speaker 4

You said door-to-door. You could ask me if you knew me. But the thing is the person that hunts has to have the homeowner with them when they go to the orientation, Because we want to verify the whole thing. That's going to work out good. I've got a cousin fixing to start building a house in the village well, there is a program.

Speaker 3

There is a program that we're involved with, you know, and there is, there is programs around the state to allow hunters to hunt these areas yeah um, so I mean there's definitely an opportunity for anybody to do this that's correct.

Speaker 4

There, a cherokee village does it. I don't even know where that is, but there's about five different sites around the state that do it. But the village is the biggest acreage, of course, compared to any gated. It's the largest gated community in the country, right.

Speaker 6

Now I got a question. Y'all, obviously y'all do the shooting tests before. That's part of the orientation, is that correct?

Speaker 4

Yes.

Speaker 6

Okay, do like you said earlieransas. Shooters aren't the best. Do y'all have residents that ever complain about wounded deer coming in? Uh, you know, laying on their?

Speaker 1

yeah, I just running on the property we have very few last year.

Speaker 4

Uh, hunters us usually in general, are very um observant to making sure that we're not noticed that way. You know orientation, which you know, you put your placard in a truck and don't park it right next to you know where people walk or just be more cognizant of what you do. Very few complaints about hunters. Uh, there's a. The village is full of a lot of people that maybe aren't happy in life and they'll find a way to complain about something oh, yeah, and we have those and if the complaints come in they usually go through me because I'm on the board of directors.

Speaker 4

But very little problems last year because we make sure they know why we're doing this. We're doing it to reduce motor vehicle accidents. And the feed, the hungry program on the donated deer, which works it works.

Speaker 1

It does work in the last eight years.

The Mechanics of Good Shooting

Speaker 2

You're ever running to the problem of. It's like, let's say, I shot a big buck, all right, and I have permission on this piece here and it goes to my island people usually pretty good about like my crossover just to grab the deer, they kind of like they are. And let me just say you can't knock on doors to listen. So if you had the dead deer, how would you go about that?

Speaker 4

let me clarify that where you can hunt in a village is on common property or private property that you own. So common property is what cooper set up when they originally built the place, which is to keep areas where they didn't build houses and there's a lot of common property there, um, but you're talking about 200 something hunters in there. You got to put some work in, maybe sometimes to find where somebody doesn't already have something set up and you can't set up until august 9th.

Speaker 1

So it's kind of a free-for-all so everybody shows up and like dang, there's eight other people in the spot right now.

Speaker 4

As far as crossing property, you can. If it's going on a piece of property that's not with a house on it, I don't think anybody has a problem with you going and getting it and dragging it off. But if it's laying in somebody's pool, that might be a different story.

Speaker 1

You keep saying dying in the pool. I mean I got to ask has it happened? Have y'all had a deer die in somebody's?

Speaker 4

pool. That's what deer do when they're shot they go to water.

Speaker 1

They somebody's pool. That's what deer do when they're shot.

Speaker 4

They go to water. They go to water. So let me tell you where that comes from the vision in my head. There used to be a show a reality show, where these guys had an urban hunt. They hunted in New York State, yeah, and that's what happened to one of the guys. He shot it and it died in the pool.

Speaker 2

So swimming dude, you got. You got a bug floating your pool. I think the bugs floating like I'd be, like I can't even swim to get it, brother.

Speaker 1

You're terrible, daryl, so go, go and go into your raven that you're using now. You know whenever you're in this, you know your urban. You don't want to run far you know, do you go for, like a safe you know double lung? Do you try to put it right there in a pocket, try to clip the heart? I mean what? What is your approach when it comes to shooting these deer to where you don't want them to travel?

Speaker 3

far, I'm going to spine them. That's what you would do. That's what you would do on accident.

Speaker 4

I'm going to spine them. So I picked an area where my main hunting is along a power line that runs through the village so I can park my truck to put my feeder and my stand up 30 yards from where my truck is. And when they come in, the average shot is under 30 yards and with a raven. If you can't put it within a three inch circle, you need to have your eyes tested. So I go for the heart long shot, double long shot. I just watched. Just watched one in your room there where it looked like a double lung shot on a nice buck and it took about five minutes before he dropped. And I don't hunt anywhere in the village where there's hills because you can't use a four-wheeler and I'm opposed to dragging a deer uphill anytime, no matter what age I was?

Speaker 1

Oh, absolutely no, I'm 24. I don't want to drag a deer uphill, you know so.

Speaker 3

So you guys realized that the deer population was out of control, and y'all, y'all came up with the plan to control the deer population. How many people in hot springs village that fights that? The fight that fights your program based off of animal rights or whatnot.

Speaker 4

We had one. One that's good, do they live there still? Yeah, she actually ran for the board of directors. Oh good gosh.

Speaker 3

Of course she would.

Speaker 4

She had the least amount of votes Unpopular vote, but anyway. Yeah, we had one that was saying common property in our declaration is to be used for everybody. Anybody can use it and she said we were restricting her right to use common property during the urban hunt. Why is she being like that? Well, my response to her was you have the right any time you want to put up a stand next to mine during the year. She's in the bird watch. I have no way to stop you. You have the same rights I do.

Speaker 3

But she didn't understand the reason why you guys are doing this.

Speaker 4

There's just some people you can't make everybody happy you can't keep the conversation going with people like that, because I always say don't feed the bear, right, right.

Speaker 3

Because if you do it, just continues, it'll never stop. It doesn't stop. Those people are definitely different yeah.

Speaker 1

So let's go back to when you're uh competition shooting. You know you were with hoyt for a long time shooting competition. What was that like traveling around doing that?

Speaker 4

it was uh something that I really miss. The uh, the camaraderie is the thing, as you all know. That's what fishing is about. That's what going to a 3d shoot is about. It's a camaraderie when you're having uh dinner with d wild and rio wild and um levi, morgan and dave cousins and you get to meet all these people on a level basis. It's kind of a nice thing. And if you want to get better, you hang around people that are better.

Speaker 4

That's the way you get better that's right and as far as winning competitions, when I was younger, in 1989, I was in the final, uh, the final group at the nfa nationals outdoor, nfa national outdoor. You guys are probably too young to even know what a field round is because it's uh, something that's gone by the wayside, but it's 28 targets, set yardage. So if you you shoot here, it's the same 28 targets, maybe in a different order. If you go to another shoot, it's the same 28 targets from 10 feet to 80 yards. Anyway, I shot with Frank and we were one or two points apart going into the last day and Frank came up to the first bale bail, forgot to change the setting, shot over the top of the bail, his first arrow. So that's five points right off the bat. Now I got the lead. I'm like I got this. Well, frank cleaned it from there the next 28 targets he never missed. So frank pearson won the nfa field target.

Speaker 4

Uh, one of the best, uh, it'd be like one of the best Tiger Woods rounds anybody ever shot. It was just incredible. It's held in Watkins Glen, new York, which is very elevated, uphill, downhill. You might be on an 80 yard target using a 40 yard pin because it's so elevated. That messed me up pretty good. That's before you could get an app to tell you all that stuff. Now you can get an app on your phone that will tell you what you should set your adjustment at. It's kind of cheating, isn't?

Speaker 1

it, so you're like guesstimating in a way it's like live scoping, you know for example, say you're here and your target is, say, 80 yards, but it's downhill, and you say, like you're shooting using your 40 pin, that's I guess. I guess that would be because of just you know, it's got less resistance going downhill, going with gravity, so it carries further, which means you wouldn't have to actually use the 80 on your on your site.

Speaker 4

That's correct. And also uphill is is less. Uphill is less yardage. You think the opposite. Why is that see? That the apex apex of an arrow arrow goes like this when you're shooting uphill, it goes like this.

Speaker 1

So it's a different yard it's not dropping dude, because it doesn't work like that that makes sense.

Speaker 3

It doesn't make sense no, I get it.

Speaker 1

That's crazy.

Speaker 2

I never even thought about that arrow, the arrow for shooting flat ground. It's gonna go up and it falls come back down but if you're shooting, uphill it instead of going down.

Speaker 1

It should be going up, but it eventually goes down. I mean, at some point it would stop going up.

Speaker 2

But yeah, that's crazy, it's further. It would stay on that up further because it's going up.

Speaker 1

What's the furthest target you've shot? When it's falling, it's still going up.

Speaker 4

Well, outdoor NFAs there's an 80, 70, 60, 50. 80, 70, 60, 50.

Speaker 1

Four arrows so yeah, 80 yards.

Speaker 4

And now that I'm older I shoot Senior Olympics, of which I've won gold in seven different states for Senior Olympics and set the 900-round record. And the 900-round is 60, 50, and 40 yards, 30 arrows each. It's a marathon. I mean it's really a marathon. Don't you get tired shooting all that? I get really tired, especially now. When I was younger it wouldn't have bothered me so much. But when you're a professional archer, it's not only that, it's the arrows you shoot before you start and it's the letdowns. One letdown will be like shooting five or six arrows. It takes that much out of you. I can see that. And on, let let's say, a 90-year-old round, I'll probably let down 10 times because the vision just didn't set up right.

Speaker 3

I never got to the spot, whatever it might be Right. So so so you shot a lot. You know one shot about your tattoo. What does that tattoo mean?

Speaker 4

It just means catches, if you can so you shoot a lot.

Speaker 3

I used to shoot a lot I don't shoot much anymore you didn't know you had tattoo like that.

Speaker 1

I did not. I did not know he had that dude, that's thought out. I feel like that's that's your most thought out tattoo you got that's kind of why I wanted him on the podcast.

Speaker 3

You know, I was like he has a tattoo. If you can't, I like that dude so, so, so, uh, shakley, you shoot a lot, right? I used to. Yes, yeah, you don't shoot no more. I bow hunt. Obviously you bow hunt, but you don't shoot no more. Not tournaments, how?

Speaker 4

come.

Speaker 3

There's not very many of them around here anymore, we need to get an attack it. When B Scott was younger, we used to shoot tournaments.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we won here in Florida.

Speaker 3

We should go to one of the total archery challenges they have now.

Speaker 2

So how?

Speaker 3

does shooting tournaments? How does shooting like you guys do? How does?

Speaker 4

that improve bow hunting? Just the round of shots you're taking.

Speaker 1

Repetition.

Speaker 3

Right right, it does make you a better bow hunter? Do you think it makes you a better bow hunter it?

Speaker 4

does. I never shot much 3D. I was a professional spot shooter when 3D first came around.

Competition Shooting and Target Panic

Speaker 4

This was back on 1980, I guess and it took over because guys at Bowhunt had more fun shooting in 3D and it is more fun the problem I had was back then it was unknown distances only, and no matter how much time I put in, how much practice, I never got to be able to judge distance on a professional level. So I just never really went that way. But I spot shoot and spot shooting makes you a better shot, a better shooter, a better technician on how to go through the sequence of a shot. Most people don't put any thought into that and you're not going to get better unless you do that when you say sequence, can you walk me through that?

Speaker 1

like what you mean by that.

Speaker 4

Well, the sequence if you're doing it right and you're on, if you're spot on, you're Scotty Shuffler, where you can hit anything anytime and not even think about it, it just happens. But when things start to go wrong, you start to lose that edge. If you don't know the techniques to bring yourself back, you're not going to get back. And how many of y'all ever had target panic once in your life? I?

Speaker 3

panic every time I call back.

Speaker 2

That's why I wouldn't quit, because I still have it.

Speaker 1

I mean, I mean we all do target. Panic is in like you're on the deer or you're on the target and you're just like, uh, now Is that what you're talking?

Speaker 4

about, or you're on the target. You're trying to acquire the target.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 4

And you don't have any control of when it's going off. It just goes off, it's not. You're not setting up, you're swinging into the target or you're not being patient.

Speaker 3

It just seems like a lot of times when I shoot at a deer or something. After I shoot at a deer I'm like, okay, did I even aim? It happens so fast.

Speaker 1

That's not a good thing. No, I don't feel like it's a good thing. No, it's not.

Speaker 3

I mean, I shot a good deer this year with a bow. Tyler Stewart shot a good one too. How big was your deer this?

Speaker 5

167, 12 points.

Speaker 3

Do you remember if you aimed?

Speaker 5

I remember not aiming for very long.

Speaker 3

That's the problem. That's what I'm talking about. So just you know, shooting 3D, shooting, this competition, keeping yourself at that level will help an everyday person, because obviously, tyler doesn't shoot 3D, I don't shoot 3D and me and him have something in common. I don't remember amon, uh, I'm like golly.

Speaker 4

So it has to improve a shooter absolutely 100 and I can tell you a story about uh shot sequence and timing. Um, it was in. I was in vegas and I was right next to levi morgan. You've got 18 inches in Vegas on the floor. That's your entire. So if you're a left-hander it's really uncomfortable.

Speaker 3

What do you mean? 18 inches?

Speaker 4

18 inches on the floor is your spot.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's where you have to stand. Load your arrow. 18 inches, 18 inches, yes, I think my waist is 18.

Speaker 4

Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 4

Your feet got gotta be in 18 inches, your body ain't gonna go in 18 inches in vegas you shoot three shots at a time on a line and then you go up. Well, I shot my first shot, levi. I looked at levi, he was already off the line. He had already I had one shot. He was already off the line to my three shots. I cycled through my next two shots. I come back and I shot and he was already off the line to my three shots. I cycled through my next two shots. I come back and I sit down and I says why do you shoot so fast? And he says what do I got to wait for? He says when it's on the dot, I shoot it.

Speaker 4

Well, that's a good story because he's the greatest 3D shooter ever. There's never been a better 3D shooter than Levi. But he struggled a couple times in his career with target panic. At one time it was so bad that he couldn't bring it to the bale without it going off. He had no control over the shot and there's a sequence to get back from that and it depends on your brain how long it takes to get back. But my opinion is that if you shoot too quick, if you're really quick to shoot, you're setting yourself up for problems in the long run.

Speaker 3

You should be able to pull back and hold and run that pin around that bullseye and let it down and not ever think about shooting it but it takes a lot of shooting to do that, it?

Speaker 4

no, it takes the right kind of shooting to do that discipline it's good practice, yeah, so what is? Good practice for our viewers Good practice is I shoot a back tension, release a deer hunt, no.

Speaker 3

I tried that once. It didn't work out too good for me.

Speaker 4

It's not easy to get used to it.

Speaker 3

But once you get used to it, it's the easiest way to get clear. You shoot that he don't even know what back tension is Okay.

Speaker 4

So, back tension is on a gate and it goes off when the angle changes. All you do with back tension is you tighten your shoulder up because you're changing that arc a little bit and it'll go ahead now. Every time you shoot your bow. It's supposed to scare you to be a true shot, and it does. It does?

Speaker 3

It scares me.

Speaker 4

So one of the things I do when you're talking about that to train somebody that's learning how to shoot, that's having trouble, that has the death finger release that y'all probably use. Yeah, we do use that. Yeah, so what I do with them. So I'm not going to coach any of you guys, because I'll give it away, but I say, okay, I want you to draw back and get set.

Speaker 3

We need coaches.

Speaker 4

They get set and I'll sneak up behind them and just tap the trigger just to watch what they do. I would hate that.

Speaker 6

It's scary as shit. That's just like back tension. That's what it does.

Speaker 4

That's the feeling you should have to make sure you're not influencing the shot. That's right, and most bad shots come from when the arrow's still in the bow. It might not be on the string, but it's still in the bow. It might not be on the string, but it's still in the bow and you don't have the proper grip or you're peaking which is death to a good shot. It's a couple of things, but that's the feeling you should have. If you're pounding the trigger, you're influencing your left and right, up and down, you're influencing everything.

Speaker 3

It makes sense.

Speaker 5

That's what I was saying.

Speaker 2

You said you shoot like yeah, you're influencing everything it makes sense like, yeah, punching the trigger, you're just hard to be accurate.

Speaker 5

Yeah, yeah, I had my thing. There was a time where I was like when I was drawback, like when I would get set up, um, like my trigger, I guess, wasn't touchy enough, you know, or hairy enough, whatever, whatever term you would use for that and like when I touched the trigger, I was so bad about letting all like the bow would almost jerk out of my hand if it didn't go off when I thought it was going to go off. So like you know what I'm saying, so like your drawback.

Speaker 1

Ain't nothing worse than that, dude.

Speaker 5

And then you end up hitting the trigger and your arrow goes wherever it's.

Speaker 2

Tyler, have you done that on a deer? That's not a matthews, that is a matthews bro. I've never had that bro, never done it on a deer.

Speaker 1

Well, you guys shoot animals it worries me because I've done that before. It worries me when I'm on a deer, so I feel like I'm like pulling extra hard overextending it. Just making sure I don't do that, because I've done that before. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, that's called target panic, yeah it is target panic. I'm ready for our shooting competition I don't feel like I'm a bad shot at all. I mean not shockingly, You're not a bad shot.

Speaker 3

It's just like when you get up in the moment when a deer walks out, you're like pick a spot, pick a spot and shit, it all blends together and then you put every pin on the deer.

Speaker 5

Yeah, I was like there's no way I can miss because everything is on the deer I'm shooting.

Speaker 3

When I first started shooting.

Speaker 1

Speaking of that when I first started shooting tournaments that happened to me and I'm real loose in my hand and the bow came back really wow and a 3d tournament I bet that was about. Yeah, I bet you for the whole rest of the tournament. You were overextended.

Speaker 3

I don't remember I bet you tried to get that tattoo off your arm then it was before tattooing Catches his. I didn't get tattooed until I was three years old.

Speaker 1

So speaking of early days, early day target shooting. Did you start out on a compound bow?

Speaker 4

or did you have a old, so compound bows came around.

Speaker 4

You look good for 70s, early 70s, early 70s. The first year I killed at 16 was with a recurve ben pearson recurve um compound bows came about to me first time. We had a uh indoor shooting range club and we're all in there with our c2 wings and you know shooting our targets. You know like like Fingers Olympics, and this guy comes in with this thing. It looked like something made in a machine shop. It had all these brackets hanging all over it. It had wheels all over it. It was one of the first Allens that ever came out. I mean this was like two of 100. I mean it was that new and we were just having a laugh about look how stupid you look with that bow. And he took it and shot it and the noise was incredibly loud Like a Hoyt.

Speaker 4

But it was 100 feet per second, faster than anything we've ever seen, and it probably wasn't but 190 feet a second.

Speaker 3

Oh man.

Speaker 4

But I knew at that time they had something and one of the guys that we shot with was a mechanic and he went home and said we don't need brackets on the end, we can make it so it's inside the limb, and he was the guy that got the patent for having the first one that was inside the limb. Of course, anybody ever shoot one with a big bracket on the end like a Darton NSL-50? They're loud, they were slow compared to ones today, but that's the first time I saw a compound. And as far as graduating up to being a competition shooter, it started with an instinctive shot on a deer that didn't go well and I missed or wounded one or the other and I go, man, I can't do that. I got to get better at this, so I put a pin on it and then, after I put a pin on it, I probably did the same thing again. And because you start shooting a little farther out, the next thing you know, I got a release in my hand. The next thing you know, I got magnification and a stabilizer because I think it's going to make me better. None of that makes you better and I'll tell you equipment.

Speaker 4

Dave Cousins' story. Most of you are too old to know who Dave Cousins was, but he was one of the best shooters in the world back in the 80s. He was a great guy and I was with a seminar with him and somebody brought up the fact. The only reason why you guys are so good is you get all that free equipment and you have better stuff than we do, and that's why you're a better shooter.

Speaker 4

So Dave took this guy's bow that arrows were coming out of it about sideways and he shot five arrows with that bow inside of a three inch group. Never shot it was. I mean, it was not tuned, arrows were going down off the bow bed and he gave it back to the guy and he said it's not the equipment, it's the guy shooting the bow. That's right. So that's a good point. Now this stuff does help you. Paper tuning by far is the most important thing, even though most shooters can't paper tune their own bow because their shot sequence isn't good enough to really know what the arrow is supposed to do coming out of the bow. I've had years where guys, I can't get a good tear, I'll take it, shoot it perfect tear every time. And it's the difference that my shot sequence is not coming off sideways or up and down, so paper tuning has to be done by somebody that has a good shot sequence. I got you that makes sense.

Speaker 1

Perfect sense. It does make sense. I probably got bad shot. Sequence on Will and the Bet.

Speaker 3

Well, I think we all do, because we don't shoot.

Speaker 1

I'd be Will and the Bet Mine's probably not that great.

Speaker 4

Well, shoot, yeah, I mean I'd be willing to bet that mine's probably not that great.

Speaker 4

Well, another thing that that may shock everybody is that a tournament archer for the most part there's some levi's that go out there and a minute they acquire the, the target, the arrow's gone. A shooter like me, when I acquire the bullseye let's say a three inch bullseye at 20 yards I will float that pin in that bullseye and it runs back and will float that pin in that bullseye and it runs back and forth across the X-ring. I'm in the center but it's running back and forth across the X-ring and then I'll start the shot sequence, not waiting for it to get to the center, because it's always going back to the middle. You're always going back to the middle, so if it's out a little bit when it happens to go off, you're going to have more shots in the middle than you are out. So in other words, I don't shoot. It say okay, let's shoot. I acquire the target inside, get it inside the target and then start. Just back, tension, just tightening my back up. It changes the angle of that release.

Speaker 3

I have no idea when it's going to go off, I got. I got something for you. Who's better hunter? A bow hunter or a gun hunter?

Speaker 4

I believe I never killed a deer with a gun until I was 35 years old and I was on a lease and they had extra tags. So I said, okay, I'll go kill one with a gun.

Bow Hunters vs Gun Hunters

Speaker 3

I didn't care for it yeah, do you believe that a bow hunter has better basic uh procedures in killing an animal than a gun hunter?

Speaker 4

I don't know the, I don't know the gun hunter, but I think, let me put it this, let me turn it around and put it this way bow hunting makes you a better hunter if you didn't ever hunt with a bow and you're a gun hunter. There's a lot of things that are off the table that you don't know about.

Speaker 3

I believe, right, I believe that a bow hunter, I believe a bow hunter is a better hunter. The reason why I believe that is because you practice way more with a bow than you do a gun. I think a lot of gun hunters, a lot of hunters, will take a gun for granted. You see, you see hair and crosshairs, you pull the trigger. You know I'm personally a better with a bow than I am with a gun. Now, if you, if you, if you put me on a range I can shoot, and david and daniel seen us shoot six, seven hundred yards and you know we shoot one in the way. We can dial up and do all that fancy stuff out to a thousand yards. We can shoot good, we shoot targets good, but if you put in there, you know you put something living, an animal out there. I think a bow hunter can process information better and make the better kill shot.

Speaker 4

And I agree with that, because now, because of injury, I hunt with a crossbow, yeah, and I don't get the heartbeats and the chills and all of that like I do with with a bow because I know I have to. Once I see it with a raven and he's in the crosshairs at 30 yards, the hunt's over. Yeah, with a bow. I still got a lot to do yeah, everything has to go right.

Speaker 3

I just think a bow hunter, focus about everything well, about the draw. Even even though a normal person, you put a bow in their hand, they're going to practice way more than a gun.

Speaker 1

Well, even beyond that, think about this. All right, say, you've got a bow hunter here that's been bow hunting his whole life. He's good at getting in position to be able to be successful bow hunting. You. Put a gun in his hand.

Speaker 1

I would be willing to bet he can kill a deer you know what I'm saying I'd be willing to bet he has a better chance than if you took a gun. Hunter, never bow hunted. And tell that hunter to go. Not only get in a position to shoot a deer with a bow, yeah, but also make it happen. Not get busted when he's drawing, but and make a good shot also a bow hunter.

Speaker 3

I mean, we all know we all bow hunt. Right, we all bow hunt here and but but when you're bow hunting, we, when you go out to a piece of property, you have to get closer to the animal.

Speaker 5

Yes.

Speaker 3

You've got to make a better shot. Everything is more serious. You can't get busted either. Yes, and I think it's a lot harder to kill an animal with a bow, and I think the whole hunt, from the start to finish, is more in detail. Don't you agree, shockley? I do. I mean, you know, I used to go to these old deer camps. Old Grandpa would go out there and he'd get an old pie plate out there. You know 25 yards. He'd get that pie plate. He says, oh, I'm good, I'm good for 250 yards. Shoot, you don't know what 250 yards look like.

Speaker 1

You know what I mean.

Speaker 3

Yeah, but you go out there with a bow and you're trying to cut arrows. You know what I'm saying. So I mean the attention to detail is what I'm trying to say. The bow hunter is like, he's quiet, he gets in his tree, he's looking at everything around him, he's playing the wind. I mean something about a bow turns you into a real hunter Because it takes more to do it. It takes more to do it. You have to pay attention to what you're doing and you know, I just think a bow hunter is a better hunter. I agree, it gets your like he said your shakes and your blood pumping way more Close and personal.

Speaker 3

I think the bow does a lot more for an individual when it comes to hunting an animal.

Speaker 1

You'll be humbled. Quick bow hunting. Oh yeah, that's correct.

Speaker 4

Or you'll be busted.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you don't play the wind right, dude. You won't even see the deer. Much less get an opportunity on one, and you know how that is, and I think a bow hunter is more of a disciplined hunter, don't you think so?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

That is more of a disciplined person. No matter what it is, he doesn't laugh. I think somebody who picks a bow up is a very disciplined person.

Speaker 2

I mean I feel like gun hunting is just like it doesn't matter what you do, you're going to kill one. There's no thought Like, if I'm going gun hunting, I'm like whatever, just give me easy, I'll be done in about two hours.

Speaker 4

The only time gun hunting gets me going is when a kid's shooting.

Speaker 3

Yeah, now that will get me going. Yeah, or you're hunting a big buck. You know, sometimes you see a big buck. I mean I'm sure tyler's saying he hunts in kansas, he hunts all these big bucks all the time you know, of course he does.

Speaker 4

You know, we're always hunting these 120s.

Speaker 3

He's hunting 150s, 170s up there, you know, but anyways are you jealous of him I'm super jealous well, if you would have got drawn for a tag this year.

Speaker 5

I didn't get drawn for a tag, I didn't either.

Speaker 1

It's crazy, gray have got drawn for a tag. This year I didn't get drawn for a tag.

Speaker 2

I didn't either it's crazy, grayson got drawn, that's crazy.

Speaker 5

Grayson got drawn. Wow, cam got drawn too, but his card declined, so they almost didn't let him have his.

Speaker 3

That's so funny. That's so funny. But, man, that's awesome to get you up here. I think the Wigan Havoc crew and Harry the crew has signed up to do some urban hunting this year with Otis. I'm excited about it. Yeah, we are too. We're going to get Shockley up there in the tree and see what we can do. We still got that competition.

Speaker 2

Remember what competition. What are you talking about? The one from the group chat going to the 3D Archery Range?

Speaker 1

Oh God, dude, I'm down, I'm in.

Speaker 2

We have so many competitions man, we have so many competitions I don't remember, it was in the group chat everything we do is a competition. Yeah, I'm ready dude, I can't remember what the bet was, but it's some while what was it?

Speaker 1

what was the last matthews? You, you, bowhunter, because I gotta have a phase four. He has a phase four, the lifts the new one, but it's having a lot of new ones the limbs cracking a lot, that's right, I'm just telling you, that's, that is a proven fact.

Speaker 3

Matthew's putting a post up themselves about it. We don't even know what's wrong with Hoyt, because nobody here shoots a Hoyt. That's the thing, so don't even bring that up.

Speaker 2

The greatest is always quiet. I'm just saying Quiet.

Speaker 1

Quiet. Yeah, dude, I heard you shoot. It sounded like you had a text.

Speaker 3

You were shooting in the garage over there at the house. It's insulated and it was knocking off everything.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's that power, that's that power.

Speaker 3

You were shooting and my wrist started vibrating. My wife was in the kitchen because she does limbs break. No, that's just a Hoyt shooting.

Speaker 1

Carbon fiber right there.

Speaker 3

But your hands won't get cold, but your hands won't get cold. That is nice about the carbon fiber though that is nice carbon fiber, it doesn't get cold. I guess that's a selling point.

Paper Tuning and Equipment Debates

Speaker 4

I tell you, Matthews, the Target boy had TRX. It took 15 minutes to paper tune it to get it to shoot. Perfect. The Matthews did, the Matthews did. I've never had a Hoyt that I could paper tune to zero Boom.

Speaker 1

We're talking about years. That's some factual stuff.

Speaker 3

I bet a $100.

Speaker 2

Bill D Darryl's never paper-tuned.

Speaker 5

I do every time. Oh, you know that I take a serious shot at this the whole way to the target. My boat is so dialed in.

Speaker 2

You'll never see me miss a target, darryl, I've never seen you kill a deer.

Speaker 1

But you've never seen me miss a target.

Speaker 2

That is a factual statement.

Speaker 1

You've never seen Mr Target. That is a factual statement. You've never seen Mr Target. All right, well, we'll get to go to the target range. Maybe you can coach us up there you go. I feel like I need some help. I bet I can pull my bow.

Speaker 2

My bow is in a sickest suitcase, that's been thrown around. I bet I can pull it out right now and shoot it.

Speaker 5

I don't even have a case. I shot my bow the other day and it was still on.

Speaker 2

This is my suitcase.

Speaker 3

I had to run over to the truck and still be on. Hey, you know what I think we need to pay you to help him. How much was that going to cost us?

Speaker 1

A lot. Listen, listen, deer. Just see my bow and just fall over dead.

Speaker 4

So one other odd experience that I had about shooting techniques I lived in Colorado at the time and had my bow. It was set up perfect, man, I was all ready for the Senior Olympic National Games down in Houston. I get down to Houston for the practice round and the first shot I made was a two-and-a-half-foot low at 60 yards, and it wasn't. I transported it by vehicle. It didn't go anything. It's the difference in elevation, yep, and I had no clue and I started talking to guys oh yeah, we'd have to figure out that all the time if we go hunt colorado.

Speaker 3

So so the elevation there's thinner, right there's thinner.

Speaker 4

I would make sure you, make sure it'll drop two and a half feet, I mean at 60 yards I mean it?

Speaker 3

was incredible we experienced the same thing with muzzleloaders. Remember we went elk hunting in Colorado and I hit the dirt at the target.

Speaker 1

The air affects everything. Your motors.

Speaker 3

And the guy goes that's a miss. I was like holy shit, that's not a miss. I've been doing this for two weeks straight. There's no way it's a miss. It was a miss. We had adjust gesture size, remember. Mm-hmm, it was crazy.

Speaker 1

It was a bad deal. Always we had open-site muzzle letters.

Speaker 3

Always shoot your equipment when you go traveling. I know somebody who didn't miss that target. That's a good tip.

Speaker 4

Well, especially when you're getting ready for a tournament. One shot, you've got 15 minutes to get it tuned up.

Speaker 2

I, we're gonna smoke your ass on lake court next week. I'm telling you right now, dude you know, that's going down. You know, I want to tell y'all something. You know, my bow's black, your bow is black. What's that to do? Anything to do? Because you know you see some big, scary black guy walk by, you lock your car doors. Yeah, so that way, when they see my deer comes out, he just automatically just lays down and dies. I do know one thing I haven't seen that in person hold on hold on.

Speaker 3

I do know thing advantage of being black when you're hunting what's that? You hunted our spot last year. In our camera Ashley goes. Is Daryl in the stand? I said yeah, baby, he's in the stand. I said he had to walk right by the camera. I said, well, it's dark.

Speaker 6

You know what I mean, pick him up.

Speaker 3

He got in the tree. Listen here.

Speaker 5

He got in the tree. You still couldn't see him, did the camera?

Speaker 3

even take a picture of him. The camera almost missed him.

Speaker 1

You're saying he didn't read you or something.

Speaker 3

She goes. That's amazing.

Speaker 2

It is amazing. That's like duck hunting. Everybody's sitting there in face paint and putting their mask on and all that. And they're looking at me and I'm like y'all, keep y'all heads down. I'm staring at them the whole time.

Speaker 3

I'm watching this whole show when it goes down. If the ducks flare say, daryl, quit smiling.

Speaker 1

Quit smiling, Daryl.

Speaker 3

We have a good time, man. We have a good time, oh yeah.

Speaker 1

And definitely thanks for making the trip. It was great. I mean learning about shooting bows. I do need to get my bow set up right.

Speaker 3

I think it's almost that time. Start bow hunting you know there's it really is. Yeah, it's really exciting.

Speaker 4

The problem with june the problem with a lot of the local shops everywhere in the country is the bow mechanic they have there today. It may be different from the guy they hire to do it tomorrow yeah, I know so it's better to learn how to do that stuff yourself, because that way.

Speaker 3

You know, it's just why the society is nowadays. You know just like it's hard. You're like like you're a way you know it's still there. That's just the way the society is nowadays. You know it's hard, like you're a legend. You're the old guys that know everything. It's pretty cool to talk to somebody that's as old as you are and has been in the business. You know it's cool.

Speaker 4

For the young guys anyways, the young guys, people like Daryl.

Speaker 3

He needs to look up to you.

Speaker 4

The only time I can be where everybody's not younger than me is if I go be inside the gate.

Elevation Effects on Shooting Accuracy

Speaker 3

I'm starting to feel like I'm the old guy at the table too. It's coming around.

Speaker 1

Age is something. Always going Well, guys. I think that wraps it up. Thanks for coming.

Speaker 4

I appreciate you guys, I appreciate you.

Speaker 1

I'm looking forward to us doing some urban hunting this year.

Speaker 4

It's going to be big, just don't get anywhere near where I put my deer stand. That's right.

Speaker 1

Just drop a pin, we'll be there. Anyways, the ABA event coming up. A lot of good stuff. Don't forget to check out the gear shop. A lot of new items. Summer's here. We got stuff for the sandbars and whatnot. Guys, check it all out Before we get out of here. Make sure you like subscribe, hit the bell for notifications and don't forget, hey, don't forget.

Speaker 3

We got Havoc bikinis, we do so get them out of here. Hey, you guys, get the Havoc bows, get your ladies bikinis. We want to see it, don't?

Speaker 1

miss out. Stay tuned, check it out.

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Brandon "B" Scott

Host
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Tim Scott

Co-host