THE SCIENCE BEHIND SETBACK | Ep071 | Off The Clock with B Scott

The Off the Clock team dives deep into the science of boat setup, weight distribution, and finding the perfect balance point for optimal performance on the water. From jack plate selection to proper trailer setup, this episode tackles the physics behind what makes boats run efficiently and how to fix common performance issues.

• Finding your boat's balance point is crucial for optimal performance and speed
• For every inch of setback added, you need to raise your motor approximately a quarter inch
• The weight behind the transom is often more important than the inches of setback
• Rather than focusing solely on prop selection, ensure proper boat balance first
• Properly adjusted trailers are essential to prevent structural damage and improve boat longevity
• Porpoising (bouncing) when trimming up indicates weight distribution issues
• Four-stroke motors typically need different setup considerations than two-strokes
• Consider your full loaded hunting weight rather than empty boat performance
• Trailer bunks should properly support the hull's running surface without stressing the chines
• Proper tongue weight (70-80 pounds) helps maintain trailer stability during towing

If you've found this information helpful, check out our gear shop for performance props and other equipment to help you get the most from your boat.

Transcript

Introduction and Boat Setup Fundamentals

Speaker 1 0:00

It's five o'clock and you're off to Cogglebee Scott and today I got Daryl Moore, michael Shockley and Tim Scott and what we're going to be doing is we're going to talk about boat setup. So we build 40 to 50 boats every week and, with that being said, there's tons of boats and new customers out there, you know, every day. So we're going to try our best to educate everybody and get everybody informed on what setups are for what and how to maneuver the different models, because there's a lot going on. You know, in a month we may have 160 boats out there, so constantly new customers, new kids getting into boats for the first time. There's tons of information that people don't know. So we're gonna do our best.

Speaker 1 0:38

You know this is our second one. Because of the return of information and all the people that called in last time, we said, hey, maybe we need to do this more often. So I think we're going to start making this. A regular ordeal is us just talking with the customers and people call in and just helping people? You know, the best we can. So we're going to get right into it, but before we do, make sure you leave a like, subscribe and hit the bell for notifications. Don't forget to check out the gear shop. Let's get in it. Check out the gear shop, let's get in it. We got a call coming in. Let's go ahead and answer it. Hey, what's going on? You're on Off the Clock with B Scott. We got Tim Scott here, daryl Moore and Michael Shockley, who are?

Speaker 2 1:18

you and where are you calling from? Hey, how's it going? This is Brody Boswell. I'm calling out of south side of Indianapolis.

Speaker 1 1:24

I'm from Bargersville. Awesome man, what you got. What kind of boat you got.

Speaker 2 1:28

So I don't have a boat right now, but I'm looking to get into it Alright, so the plan that I have going is so I plan on getting a DBST 1860. Okay, and putting a kickin' jack and put in a kicking jack.

Speaker 1 1:49

And then I was trying to decide whether I go with a 75 Tattoo or a 90 Yamaha. Okay, and what are you planning to do with the boat? Are you going?

Speaker 2 1:56

to hunt out of the fish out of it.

Speaker 1 1:57

What are you doing here?

Speaker 2 1:59

Yeah, so main thing is hunting, but also using the summertime for just ripping up and down the river, going to the lake with my buddies on it, uh, but main purpose will be duck hunting with it I got you but uh, so plan to put a kicking jack on it and do all the bells and whistles that I want.

Speaker 2 2:17

But main thing that I was asking, uh, or wanting to know, was, if I did put a tailor like that on it, one, how fast would it run? And and two, how shallow of water could I get into?

Speaker 1 2:29

Well, you know, with the 1860, you're going to be able to draft shallow because with a wider surface area boat and it being 18 foot long, it's more of a flatter sitting rig, unless you were to put some kind of astronomical amount of setback on it or something crazy With the low horsepower. Yeah, I, I mean. So you're gonna, you're gonna be able to draft really well as far as performance goes I mean, what have you seen, shockley?

Speaker 4 2:53

um, I haven't. I ain't had too many run-ins with the 1860 dbst. Uh, what's that?

Speaker 5 2:58

that boat's ready for 75 right, you know I actually uh that actually fish out of 1860 dbst. It's called the till. You know, I actually fished out of an 1860 DBS, it's called the.

Speaker 5 3:05

Teeler Cat Remember that, yeah, oh yeah, okay, so it was an 1860. And I had a 115 Pro XS on. Of course, the boat don't rate for it though, but you know that's what I put on it. It handled the 115. It was awesome on the boat. It was a Pro XS, I believe. I don't know. I don't know where it was. Yeah, it probably exists, I don't know, I don't know. But anyways, it was definitely a 115. But the problem is that just had tiller torque and the boat sat really kind of deep in the back you know, because I was fishing down in it.

Speaker 5 3:36

so I wanted something that sat a little more flatter and I didn't really like the tiller torque. So I went from that to a 60-horse Mercury and the boat sat a lot flatter and it was easier to drive For me. I was wanting to fish out of it, so it was just a cowlack. But you would need a little more setback. You need a heavy setback. You know we talked about this earlier. I think a lot of people get confused on setback versus weight of the setback.

Speaker 1 4:12

You would probably need a little bit of weight, especially with a 60 horse. You would need a heavy, heavy jack plate to counterbalance the boat.

Speaker 4 4:15

But you're asking would you go with a 70 horsepower or 90?

Speaker 2 4:17

is that what you're asking, 75 or 90? Well, biggest thing I was asking is what you would recommend um to go with the 75 or a 90, and then, if I did go with that bigger 90, would I be able to run it less shallow water with it?

Speaker 4 4:30

you probably won't be able to tell much of a difference as far as driving between the two modes I wouldn't think there'd even be a noticeable difference.

Speaker 5 4:35

The boat does it right for a 90. So I mean we can't recommend. I mean if you're gonna put a 90 on that tiller in the boat. You know the 90 shows awesome motor. It is For the power and the weight of the motor and what you can do for that motor. It's truly badass.

Speaker 1 4:52

It is.

Speaker 2 4:56

It's an animal.

Speaker 3 4:58

And then do you guys have a guess about how fast it runs? Wasn't my Marsh Runner?

Speaker 5 5:01

1860? Are you going to run mid-50s?

Speaker 3 5:02

Yeah, I would think so. Are you you gonna run mid 50s? Yeah, I would think you're gonna run my 50s.

Speaker 5 5:05

There's actually a guy it would at least be 50 there's actually a guy on the internet right now. His name is bubba and he's running an 1860 with a 90 show and he just sent me a tiktok video of him hitting 60 with a 24 laser 2 prop yeah, it's gonna all come down to setup to get your max speed out of it for sure you Do.

Speaker 1 5:22

you remember how much setback that guy had?

Speaker 5 5:26

He's running an 8-inch Magnum jack plate. He's running an 8-inch jack plate, really yeah.

Speaker 1 5:30

So you're saying, with the right prop and stuff, you can get up there. He's running a 24-pitch prop. Right you can get up there to 60, but you're probably going to see, with your standard stuff probably low to mid-50s.

Speaker 5 5:43

Well, he just sent me a TikTok video of him running 60. He finally hit 60 with it, and he's also going to run a turbo prop. He's going to try a 24-pitch turbo prop and he feels like he's going to be a little bit over 60.

Speaker 4 5:56

Cool With a 90 show. Yeah, that's rolling. Yeah, that is rolling.

Speaker 5 6:01

That's an 1860 DBS T2.

Speaker 4 6:02

That's also an 8 degree hole. Yeah, I was fixing to say it's not going to float the nose, it's going to run out, but he just sent me a video.

Speaker 5 6:08

Matter of fact, he just sent me a text message, so it's awesome.

Speaker 1 6:14

Absolutely, absolutely Any other questions about the 1860s or what motor you and I was put on there.

Speaker 2 6:19

So is 2025 the first year they're going to start being foam filled?

Speaker 5 6:25

uh, yes, sir, they always had basic flotation but now they're more. It's more of advanced foam it's yeah, yeah, it's, it's blown foam. It's uh, you still got your storage boxes in the back. It's less storage, uh, but they are they. They are filled with foam in the rear, in the front as well, but but but I don't think that's a bad thing either no, I don't think it's a bad thing um the boat.

Speaker 5 6:49

The boat is solid, it feels solid um it sounds solid. I really don't think foam is a bad deal no, I don't either especially I don't either no, yeah, no, it's not a bad deal and you still have the story.

Speaker 1 7:03

a lot of a misconception is they think that because they're foam now you lose storage. That's not the case. You know, we still got those C-option rear deck where you know they have pans in them now, where they have kind of boxes, so they're a little bit shallower, but you still got some storage in the back.

Speaker 4 7:17

I was going to say you lose a little bit.

Speaker 1 7:19

But you still got got storage? Yeah, it ain't too bad no, it's, it's, it's still doable for sure. No, yeah, it ain't making that much of a difference, but uh all right, well, I think that's all I got.

Speaker 2 7:32

I appreciate you guys and I love the show so oh man, I appreciate it all right, dude.

Speaker 1 7:38

Yeah, you have a good one man yeah, y'all as well.

Speaker 2 7:41

Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 7:42

All right, you don't get too many calls with the 1860s. 1860?, dude? I'm telling you 1860. That's a waterway. To start the show, I'm telling you 1860 is a.

Speaker 5 7:51

I eat some fish out of 1860.

Speaker 1 7:53

It's an absolute Cadillac.

Speaker 5 7:54

I love it man.

Speaker 1 7:55

All right, here we got another call coming in. Where does this go? You're on Off the Clock with B Scott. I got Tim Scott, daryl Moore and Michael Schalke with me. Who are you and where are you calling from?

Speaker 4 8:07

Tanner Hoven from Grove Hill Alabama.

Speaker 1 8:10

Awesome man, you got a Havoc.

Speaker 4 8:12

Yeah, I got a 1656 MSTC with a gator tail and it runs good. I'm trying to get a little bit more out of it.

Speaker 2 8:22

I've ran a beat-up CO57 and then a boat DR prop and.

Speaker 4 8:30

I just got one of the Merck Rapid 3-blades and I just want to wish I could get a little bit more out of it without getting it built.

Speaker 5 8:41

Well, it just depends on how the boat's running. I mean it's a boat running. I mean it's hard to really do a performance on mud motors. I mean, daryl, you might can get it on on this.

Speaker 5 8:52

I mean, I know you run mud motors all the time, but uh, for the boat part of it. Um, that boat really runs flat. It's it's really designed to stay on top of the surface as much as possible. The way to get a boat to really pick up speed is to lift the boat. It's going to take a really good prop to do that. Of course that's what you're experimenting with.

Speaker 4 9:17

You probably know, I've ran built motors and turbo motors and it's hard to get any lift with a mud motor.

Speaker 5 9:27

It's almost like it's pushing. I mean, the prop is at the surface so it's it's hard to get any lift it's almost like it's pushing I mean the prop is at the surface so it's pushing the boat. Yeah, you know, it's not like it's an outboard motor.

Speaker 1 9:31

Yeah, it's not gripping and leveraging the hole up anyway, it's kind of just skimming the top. But as far as what?

Speaker 4 9:36

you're asking about props. When I when I experienced with my mud motor, I loved the mercury three blade so.

Speaker 3 9:44

So last year I ran that 656 with a gtr 40 and I was over here looking up what profit was I got, but I put a marine power two blade on there and it picked up a little bit of speed, so I definitely checked that out so props that I have ran it with like most.

Speaker 4 10:02

Most people are getting, like, I think, around 30 miles per hour. The most I've hit with all those props is 26.

Speaker 1 10:10

Yeah, 26. And how? I mean, how do you feel like the boat's running, like, do you feel like you're dragging, or Is it?

Speaker 3 10:16

like the nose of it's going down in the water, Like how does it feel when you trim out with it? No, I mean it runs good. What RVMs are you turning like? What's it when you look back at the, the gauge on the mud motor? What's it saying?

Speaker 4 10:29

like running it like yeah, yeah when it's full throttle I have it a little. Can you bang it? Can you bang it out on the rev limiter? Yeah, that's what I always do. I always banged it out and then bump the trim all the way up to like, where it blows out almost even push down one trim button.

Speaker 2 10:43

That's what you do yeah, just one or not.

1860 DBST Performance and Capabilities

Speaker 3 10:45

I would okay. So I'll give you a couple things to look at, because when I, when I first got, uh, mine, one of mine I said we set up it was not hitting the full speed like that, and, um, what it was was that it wasn't getting full throttle. So I had to go back and get it, uh, and get it adjusted, um, from a gator tail dealer, because the motor wasn't hitting full throttle. So then that's why I was saying what RPMs are you getting? Because you may not be getting all your RPMs.

Speaker 1 11:08

Yeah, that could be the case. If he's banging out, he is.

Speaker 3 11:10

Yeah, yeah, more likely, but I would look at the RPMs because he could bang out without looking if he trims up before, if he doesn't know.

Speaker 4 11:16

Yeah, that is true.

Speaker 3 11:25

That, yeah, I definitely would put it in the water and look at the rpms are and? Um, it'll be gauge props too, yeah, and it'll help you gauge props. But I definitely check out that the prop I told you because, like that helped me out, because I mean mine was running.

Speaker 5 11:32

Last year I was running 33, yeah with you know, yeah, which is pretty standard, and also, too, something to look at too on the boat side of it, because it takes both parts, you know know, the boat and the motor. From the factory the boat comes with a little extended weld all across the transom. You could clean that weld up just a little bit.

Speaker 4 11:53

But be careful, but be careful, don't overdo it.

Speaker 5 11:57

The boat is designed to run flat because you want the boat on top of the water and not necessarily digging the transom in the water, because you want the boat on top of the water and not necessarily digging the transom in the water, so you can look at the boat and clean the well up just a little bit across the whole bottom of the boat. Mscc is the only boat we go all the way across the bottom and we do that because we want the stern up in the air.

Speaker 4 12:17

And what we mean by be careful is don't take it all the way off.

Speaker 3 12:21

Do it a little bit and then run it yeah do it a little bit all the way off. Yes, do it a little bit and then run it. Yes, yeah, yeah, because you do too much.

Speaker 4 12:25

The one of those deals where you do it at the boat ramp.

Speaker 5 12:26

Yeah, little adjustments make a big difference For an example, if you had a really, really, really hot mud motor on there and these turbos, and it was a really hot, hot motor and you had left, the further you drive the bow in the water.

Speaker 4 12:42

That's right. Does that make sense? 100% correct.

Speaker 5 12:44

So you need to look at the boat as well, because from the factory they're set where it's just normal, normal use. You start putting performance prop, performance parts on your motors, you put more power to the prop and it could drive a bow down, causing you to over-trim the, and it just, you just lose its power yeah, you just lose its speed, so it could be a boat issue yeah, I definitely feel the bottom is your rpms.

Speaker 4 13:11

I mean, it's not what's worth a tail is your motor mounted all the way down on the transom?

Speaker 2 13:17

yeah, it is yeah, some people mount them up a little bit and some people move them one inch too.

Speaker 5 13:22

And they move one inch to what? To the left?

Speaker 4 13:24

to the passenger side. That is my signature move. There's one inch to the right.

Speaker 1 13:28

Three quarters of an inch, and you know what that does is the tiller torque that's right, take the tiller torque out of you and it allows you to, you know, adjust everything yeah, but the first thing I'd probably check uh yeah, the number one first thing I'd check would be the the welds on the bottom yeah, yeah, I would definitely check there and if you feel like they're, you know there's a little, there's, there's a lot there, you can try taking it off, like you said, you know, all the way across the bottom, just a little bit at a time, and uh, yeah, I mean that will make a difference yeah, because if it picks your boat up, if it, I mean I mean if it picks your bow up one inch, your hole's drying out yeah you're getting air under it and you're when your hole dries out.

Speaker 5 14:06

You're gonna pick up speed, yeah, but you gotta be really careful is it.

Speaker 3 14:09

Are you running 26 with just you in there, nothing else in the boat?

Speaker 4 14:12

yeah, just me, yeah, you it should be running faster now.

Speaker 5 14:16

Should be right at 30 easily definitely check your throttle, like he said but he said his prop was beat up too.

Speaker 4 14:21

Yeah, that.

Speaker 3 14:22

Yeah, that makes a big difference. Yeah, and a mud motor yeah, a mud motor prop. Yeah, a mud motor prop is finicky, I'm telling you, but that marine power prop it makes. I mean, every time I get one, that's the first thing I put on there.

Speaker 4 14:34

I usually tell people to find a buddy. That's got some and just try them.

Speaker 5 14:47

Like I always ran a work prop. Even on my stock motor I ran a work prop, yeah, yeah. So check your throttle, check your bob and welding your boat mstc um, and also check your prop. Make sure it's not too that sand tears them up quick yeah, it takes the diameter off.

Speaker 4 14:55

When you take diameter off the prop, it's taking all your gains. It's not like an outboard prop.

Speaker 1 15:00

No, well, yeah, anyway. Well, let us know, you know, after you check all this stuff. Definitely keep up with. Let us know because I'm curious about it for sure in the future what you find.

Speaker 4 15:09

All righty, I'll keep in touch with you. Thank you all so much.

Speaker 1 15:12

Yes, sir, thanks for calling. Have a good one, all right.

Speaker 4 15:15

See you, bye.

Speaker 5 15:27

You know that's a double-edged sword, I think a lot of people don't understand the wear and tear on props. Yeah, like a mud motor prop will take wear and tear like crazy, oh yeah yeah, I mean one day in the woods, in the wrong environment, will tear a prop up yes, sand, sand is terrible and once that, once that props are skiing a little sharp points and it's terrible looking, but once it's done, it's done oh yeah, you gotta buy a new prop.

Speaker 4 15:54

I need to. Oh yeah, because once you take diameter off of them, yeah, I mean, that's all. You're only using half that prop. Yeah, half that props out of the water yeah, right.

Speaker 5 16:02

Yeah, that's right. So it's a big deal and I think a lot of people don't understand how important a prop is to a mud motor.

Speaker 3 16:07

I need to find my props. When we went to Oklahoma three years ago and one week I went through four props. Up there on that river you hit a sandbar, you keep trying to get out of it and every day I was having to change props.

Speaker 5 16:18

You know it affects you. You wasn't going fast enough. It definitely affects you. I was going fast enough. It definitely affects your performance.

Speaker 3 16:23

I was going fast enough that every time you stop, you just fly to the front of the boat you get to the same part.

Speaker 5 16:27

You just fly to the front of the boat.

Speaker 3 16:29

I wish he'd be out pushing. It takes four people to push.

Speaker 5 16:31

I wish I would have told that guy to adjust his boat after he got a new prop. Yeah, oh my.

Speaker 4 16:38

God.

Speaker 1 16:39

Yeah because you can't really do much to your setup until you have a good start You've got to have a starting spot, and that goes for every kind of bow. You need a good starting point before you can start messing around with stuff. Yeah like trim. Yeah, if you've got things that aren't working on your rig already, let's fix those first before you start trying to set them up, just have a solid base.

Speaker 5 17:02

Yeah, so this guy in 1860 DBSD. For everybody watching the podcast he's running a 24 pitch on a Revlimber of 58 miles an hour in 1860.

Speaker 3 17:15

DBSD. Yeah, that's pretty good, that's pretty solid, that's pretty legit.

Speaker 5 17:18

Yeah, has a rod box on the left side.

Speaker 1 17:21

I mean, it's a heavy, she's heavy, he's lifting, good he loves his boat got a gas tank in there too yeah, we have the gas tank.

Speaker 5 17:28

I see a gas tank in his picture. Uh, he's got to send me pictures all the time, videos all the time. But uh, and we, you know we learn from these, you know, we know we learn from situations like this.

Speaker 1 17:37

But, um, yeah, he's, he's running out pretty good, for sure anyways, we got a guy that called a minute ago that uh, while we were on the phone, we can uh go ahead and call him back like cope people. Yeah, let's go ahead and uh go ahead and give it a try. Let me get it going. Hello, hey, what's going on? Sorry, we missed your call. You're on off the clock with b scott and we got daryl moore, michael shockley and tim scott with me. Um, who are you and where are you calling from? Um, chris, and I'm calling Awesome, what kind of boat you got.

Speaker 4 18:26

I got a VJ 1653.

Speaker 3 18:28

1653. Vj. What motor's on there?

Speaker 4 18:33

50 Mercury Four-stroke.

Speaker 3 18:36

Yes, sir, 50 Mercury. Any setback on that boat?

Speaker 4 18:42

I got 10-inch action jack on it.

Speaker 1 18:51

Oh, I like it 10-, 10 inch, perfect what?

Speaker 4 18:52

how's it running? Uh, it's running fairly good until I start trimming on it what kind of issues you having. Uh, it's just bouncing even with 10 inches?

Speaker 1 19:02

is it a? Is it like a fast hop, slow hop? What kind of hop is?

Speaker 4 19:06

it's, I guess, about medium, more or less. As soon as I bump that trim, it goes to bouncing. Are you raising your motor up any? Uh, it's on three on my deck plate.

Speaker 5 19:19

Well, that's where I found best rides all right, so so the rule of is the rule of thumb on jack plates. So it sounds like you've got to counterweight back, but you also might have too much counterweight back on the VJ. How heavy are you? I mean, what do you weigh? I'm 220. 220.

Speaker 4 19:38

All right, so that's about what I weigh.

Speaker 5 19:40

All right. So you're going to have to go up on your jack plate for sure, but the rule of thumb is for every inch you go back, quarter inch up, that's right, okay. So that's a rule of thumb and then, once you do that, you need to go, you need to pick a prop that fits that application. So even if you go up with your jack plate for every inch you go back, you might be running the wrong prop.

Mud Motor Troubleshooting and Optimization

Speaker 4 20:07

You need to hold more water in your prop, okay, and I would say, next time you're running it you need to jack it all the way up until it blows out and jack it down about a quarter. Go in quarter-inch increments.

Speaker 5 20:21

And also, too a lot of people don't understand this too that a four-stroke the trim rate is slower than a two stroke. Sometimes you just can't get on a four stroke and just hold the trim button. Yeah, you gotta let that motor catch up. Yeah, that's where your power is.

Speaker 4 20:37

You can hold it wide open and you just your gains in your trim.

Speaker 5 20:40

Yeah, there's a lot of times where you can get in the boat, especially in a vj, because it is a lighter boat up front. Um you run it, you bump run it bump, run it bump run it bump. It's not like run bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump you gotta let that boat catch up, you gotta, you gotta, let that boat get balanced. You gotta build the rpms up. You gotta build the rpms up, exactly right. So, uh, the the four stroke is a slower, especially with that much setback.

Speaker 4 21:09

Did we ask him if he has anything in the front?

Speaker 5 21:11

No.

Speaker 4 21:11

Do you have anything in the front of that boat? No, sir, well, trolling motor, that's about it, but I don't. My battery is in the back.

Speaker 5 21:22

What kind of trawl motor you got in front Rip Tad's, I mean Cody. Yeah, yeah, that's a good trawl motor. That's a good trawl motor.

Speaker 5 21:29

Well you did the right thing with 10 inches setback on that particular boat. I believe you're 100% right. It don't sound like the balance point. The balance point is probably sitting under your butt somewhere on the boat. I imagine your tongue weight is fairly light. Um, I would say you probably have about 80 pounds on your tongue, probably maybe just guessing, I don't know. I didn't wait, I mean I haven't. I mean I don't know for sure, but you could check your tongue weight, see what your tongue weight is. Um, what trailer is your boat sitting on?

Speaker 5 22:01

um mcclain or mccain, okay. So I don't know where the tracks I mean, I really don't know where the axle placement is on that. I know our trailer axles are around 42 inches um, all of our trailers around 42 inches because it kind of gives us an idea how to balance the boat before they leave the factory. But uh, with our boat, uh, we want about 70 80 pounds on the nose. I don't know where you're at with that, uh, but the balance point of the boat is very, very important and we just talked about this earlier. 70, 80 pounds on the nose, I don't know where you're at with that, but the balance point of your boat is very, very important and we just talked about this earlier. It's not necessarily the inches you go back but the weight behind the transom. So you want to get your boat balanced. Normally, when a boat runs on the plug loaded down, she'll sit similar to that in the water empty.

Speaker 4 22:44

Yeah, okay, okay.

Speaker 5 22:45

Okay. So if your boat is just sitting there empty and she's pointing up in the air at a 22 degree angle, that's kind of how she's going to run. It kind of gives you an idea how she's going to run and what you've got to do next is just find the right prop.

Speaker 4 23:01

Okay, that was going to be my next question.

Speaker 2 23:04

What prop do y'all?

Speaker 4 23:05

recommend. I just gotta stop what come on the murder.

Speaker 5 23:11

So that might be the first thing you start with well, I mean, I mean he definitely, I mean I'm, I'm really surprised he has a setback. He has on it. That's awesome.

Speaker 1 23:18

No, he, you know, just listening to what you have yes up to this point with the setup, motor and size boat.

Speaker 4 23:25

I mean, everything's looking good. What prop are you running now? It's a stock.

Speaker 1 23:28

It says stock prop.

Speaker 4 23:29

Stock aluminum prop. No, sir, it's stainless.

Speaker 5 23:35

No, I don't think Mercury. Mercury don't come with a stock prop. Somebody put that prop on there.

Speaker 4 23:38

Yeah, somebody put that on there I mean, I don't know what it is. I. I mean, I don't know what it is.

Speaker 5 23:44

I just bought this boat from Quentin at ReShorts. Well, he's the man. I think he's the man I don't know.

Speaker 4 23:50

Sometimes I wonder. He's actually the one that they recommended. To set back on it, absolutely.

Speaker 3 23:55

He's not that well-known, that's the reason it came so good. That's the reason why I mean exactly.

Speaker 4 24:01

I mean Quentin's, the man I'm going to say it needs to be a 15 pitch, because that's what I found runs best on Whitney's Hers is a 60.

Speaker 3 24:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you're probably right. So a 15? Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 4 24:12

I would run a 15. Okay, yeah, all right, fellas, I appreciate you. Yes sir, yes sir.

Speaker 5 24:19

Yeah, you need to prop the hose of water on there and reach back out to Quentin and tell him what you're experiencing and he definitely sets you in the right direction. For sure, for sure. There's not very many phone calls we get. That's even start like you have which is awesome you got a great starting point. For sure, most of the time people's going to call us and they're going to say I got advanced kicking jack, or I got six inches on there, or Bob six inch. You know, it's just a lot of cases.

Speaker 4 24:45

That's just a lot of cases. That's just not enough setback. All right, well, I'll try that with a prop and we'll go from there.

Speaker 1 24:51

I appreciate y'all giving me a call back yes, sir, yes sir, you have a good day you too. All right, bye so that's.

Speaker 5 25:00

that's good that that he started with us 10-inch. Yeah, you know his balance point is way back. You know he's weighing 220 pounds, so you know it's way back there. So his problem is he's just not high enough with the right prop.

Speaker 3 25:16

Yeah.

Speaker 5 25:16

You know, that's all. His problem is he just don't have the right prop. Yeah, Because you've got to think, man, You've got all that setback back there and you got to get the prop holds the water and keeps that boat balanced, and that's the key. That is the key. Everything has to work in harmony.

Speaker 1 25:31

Yeah and Quentin is definitely a good place to start for sure. Yeah, he got me in the right direction.

Speaker 5 25:37

If there's anyone, in South America, I mean South United States, to go to Quentin's the man. Yeah man, Quentin weighs what. 500?, 500?. Hey, I ain't never seen a 550 run as good With that much weight.

Speaker 1 25:57

He would come out of the hole and I'm talking about. He'd be running like this the whole way down the track.

Speaker 4 26:01

You're talking about which boat?

Speaker 5 26:02

I'm talking about back in the day when you used to run on the edge.

Speaker 4 26:05

That was a 547, wasn't it?

Speaker 1 26:08

Dude, I don't know what it was, whatever they called it.

Speaker 4 26:10

He was over the capacity.

Speaker 1 26:11

Oh well.

Speaker 5 26:11

Quinn said, boy, I'm fast. I said, yeah, you'd be a lot faster if you wasn't dragging the right side of your boat in the water. You and he never really noticed that until we actually sent him a video. I was like dude, I mean, yeah, you're fast, but you're running fast on the track crooked because you're so big. It was fast he could run it, but you know what was crazy about Quentin, though, is he made the boat run as much as he weighs, I was like dude to me.

Speaker 5 26:38

that was amazing. Oh yeah, you know. I said you're going to kill it in a 553. And he was actually. He was actually bigger than then. I think, yeah, yeah, he was the size of a volkswagen. Yeah, I think a lot, I think a lot of people don't understand that a big boat isn't slow. No, big boat isn't slow, you know. And and if you weigh a lot and you carry a lot of gear, I mean you need a bigger boat absolutely without a doubt. I mean the purpose for for it it's not slow man.

Speaker 1 27:05

Anyways, let's get what we've got a call from. Oh, speaking of the devil, guess who it is?

Speaker 4 27:10

His ears was burning.

Speaker 1 27:12

His ears were burning. It's Quentin. What's going on, Quentin?

Speaker 4 27:20

Hey Bo, hey man, You're on here.

Speaker 5 27:23

Yeah, y'all it's hotter than the sun of a gun down here. Oh yeah, I bet it is. We just got done talking to one of your customers, quentin yeah, like you're gonna want to see this one. Yeah, he, uh, he's gonna call you, but you put it. You saw him with vj, with a 10 inch bobs on there. It's running good, but I felt like he's trimming it up. He's trimming it up, trimming it up, and you gotta hop to it.

Speaker 5 27:49

I told him to give you a holler, but said he had a stock prop but, yeah, I don't know what stock prop means in the mercury terms but I mean, you set him up really great though.

Speaker 1 27:56

I mean it was a 653 vjst with a 10 inch action. Uh bobs on it and it's 50 merc. Uh, I don't know. He didn't know what prop he had, but I mean, to me his setup seems right you know what are you doing down there, quentin uh, I am currently installing a sea face and a boat.

Speaker 4 28:19

You know we got about uh 64 boats on the line for service.

Speaker 5 28:24

That's good You're staying busy down there Staying busy. I was just so glad that somebody called and said I got a 10-inch jack plate on my VJ and it came from Quentin.

Speaker 1 28:36

Somebody listened.

Speaker 4 28:39

Oh that's badass.

Speaker 1 28:46

Did he say? He just?

Speaker 5 28:46

bought it. Yeah, he just got it. Yeah, he said he just bought it. I just got it. Yeah, he said he just bought it. I don't think he's had on water a few times, I just think he needs some setups his name chris.

Speaker 4 28:52

Yeah, it was yeah, he literally just got it yeah, yeah, he picked it up friday yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah salary run, that's good yeah. So the biggest thing you you know that I've realized a lot of people don't understand the Mercury's. You know they kind of like have a limit in them until they hit a certain amount of hours and then it's kind of like a safety fail. You know what I'm saying? That Guardian, whatever.

Speaker 5 29:19

It's 20 hours, isn't?

Speaker 4 29:20

it Guardian mode?

Speaker 5 29:21

yeah, I think Quentin told me 20 hours yeah, he did tell us how long he's was in it. Guardian mode yeah, I think Quentin told me $20. Yeah, he didn't tell us how long he's tapped about it. He just said he's a customer.

Speaker 4 29:27

Yeah, well, there's no way, he's got 20 hours on it.

Speaker 5 29:30

I forgot all about that.

Speaker 4 29:31

I'm glad you reminded me on that.

Speaker 3 29:32

Yeah, that makes a difference.

Speaker 5 29:34

Yeah, just a good. I always tell everybody.

Speaker 4 29:38

I always tell people like hey, look, this motor's going to feel a little weak. You need to get 20 hours on it and then it'll start to. You know, give you some up. You know, just kind of a general idea. I sold one to a buddy of mine and he said after 20 hours he picked up six or seven mile an hour. I don't remember exactly. That's a lot. Hey, loose as fast. You know that's like Changing nothing. I'm finna. Put Whitney's in the pond tonight. Let it idle all night. Hey loose is fast.

Speaker 5 30:13

You know, when B-Sky was starting to beat everybody At the boat races, we always knew his motor was about to pop. Yeah.

Speaker 1 30:21

You can always tell when it gets nice and loose. He just ran a.

Speaker 5 30:23

Nine, nine old shit. It was about to pop. You can always tell when it gets nice and loose. He just ran a 9-9 and all that shit is about to pop.

Speaker 4 30:31

Yeah, man, I just made a big old mess.

Speaker 1 30:36

I don't doubt it one bit, dude, you sound like you're busy man. What?

Speaker 4 30:38

in your pants, was it? No, I just got a. I'm draining bad gas out of a fuel tank too. I hear you, man so we're y'all y'all on podcast, or what?

Speaker 5 30:49

yeah, yeah, we're on the podcast right now. You're on the podcast. I've been seeing all your tiktok videos. Man, you've been killing it, you have been working.

Speaker 4 30:56

I can tell you I used whenever. I first started doing that. So the reason what made me start doing that was I had a customer. I sold him a db, uh I don't know, like right before hunting season last year, and then one day he comes across my tiktok and, you know, he had a few hundred followers, 500 followers, something like that. Then a few days later he came across my tikt again and he had like 5,000 followers and I was like damn, what the hell. And then a couple days later I went to his TikTok and he had like 20,000 followers. So I called him and I was like dude, what the hell are you doing? Like how are you getting all these TikTok followers? And he told me he said, man, you just got to be consistent on your posting. He said you really need to post three times a day. Yeah, he said. But you really, he said, but you have to post once a day.

Speaker 4 31:49

So whenever and that was about the time whenever we got the first freedom and so I started posting about the freedom and people start chiming in and basically, like every time somebody comments, according to what he's telling me, is like he kind of throws it on to whoever comments, therefore you page and it's just like a is like he kind of throws it on to whoever comments their For you page and it's just like a snowball effect and next thing you know I mean I've had people reach out to me about those things from overseas and stuff, like they're messaging me on. Tiktok I don't even know their. Like. I can't even respond because I don't know their language.

Speaker 5 32:24

Yeah, we had a guy contact me uh last night from switzerland switzerland.

Speaker 1 32:30

I need some havocs man, and you find out a way to get one. Get some of them over there. I think that's a big market over there, switzerland oh yeah, you know it is, it's gotta be.

Speaker 4 32:39

it's gonna take a big havoc to get a big havoc to get them over there A big havoc to ship them over there.

Speaker 1 32:45

Yeah, I don't know about that now, that's a big endeavor right there, but anyways, man, we got people calling in dude. It was good talking to you, quentin, always dude.

Speaker 4 32:57

Yeah, hey look, while y'all in there soaking up that air condition, just think about my big fat ass I'm down here pouring in sweat.

Speaker 5 33:00

Hey, I'm sorry I missed out on the bow fishing hunt a couple weeks ago with you man, I was really wanting to hang out with you.

Speaker 4 33:08

That's all right, I'll get up there sometime soon.

Speaker 5 33:12

We'll hang out a weekend or something.

Speaker 1 33:13

We'll see you in bow season man.

Speaker 4 33:17

He needs to come deer hunting with us man. Yeah well, you know, it's just, sometimes it's possible sometimes it ain't.

Speaker 5 33:24

I get you.

Speaker 4 33:25

I get you could take care of the customers that's right, man well well hey, y'all be good, I'm gonna run all right man, we'll holler at you suck it easy oh, queen, suck it easy.

Speaker 2 33:38

I never really said that before, that's pretty cool suck it easy.

Speaker 1 33:41

He's been saying that for a couple weeks now I've been saying it for years.

Speaker 4 33:44

Most of the time you say, all right, suck it either.

Speaker 5 33:46

Okay, man, see you lateruck it easy he's been saying that for about a couple weeks now, I've been saying it for years.

Speaker 3 33:51

Most of the time you say, all right, suck it easy. Okay, man, see you later, suck it easy.

Speaker 5 33:54

I just want to tell B Scott's mama suck it easy, oh my.

Speaker 1 33:57

God. She can say probably not, probably not. She can say probably not. I got a call we missed. Let's see if we can get them back on the phone.

Speaker 3 34:02

I'm getting a tattoo. I'm going to start to sleep.

Speaker 5 34:04

Are you? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 34:06

We will call this guy I'm going to start to sleep.

Speaker 4 34:10

Boy Hayley's going to whoop you. Boy Hayley ain't going to go for that is she.

Speaker 3 34:13

Yes, she is. She has tattoos.

Speaker 1 34:19

Does she? I'm Michael Shockley and Daryl Moore with me. Who are you and where are you calling from?

Speaker 4 34:25

I'm Andy Skipper and I'm calling from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

Speaker 1 34:27

Myrtle Beach. What you got going on man, what kind of boat you got.

Speaker 4 34:31

Man, I got a 2045 DBST.

Speaker 1 34:35

DBST.

Speaker 4 34:37

Yeah, with a 60 Mercury. Okay, full stroke on the back, okay.

Speaker 1 34:40

What size is it? What size is it, what size DBS-T you got?

Speaker 4 34:43

16, 656.

Speaker 2 34:45

656, all right.

Speaker 4 34:46

That's an 8-degree R. Yes, sir, and that thing bounces like nobody's business.

Speaker 1 34:52

Oh yeah, what's your setup. What kind of jack plates you got.

Speaker 4 34:56

I got a Bob's kicking jack, all right, and I had a friend of mine tell me to try another 4-inch offset with it. So I put another 4-inch like a teenager's offset on the back. It helped it some, but it still, man, if you touch the trim very much, it's bounce.

Speaker 5 35:13

All right, b Scott, you got this. You want me to take this, because this is right around.

Speaker 1 35:16

Yeah, this goes back to what we were talking about earlier. You know before you called. So we're discussing the weight versus setback in general.

Speaker 5 35:26

And the balance point of your boat. This is really, really, really important, especially on an 8-degree hull.

Speaker 1 35:31

Okay, so it's not only the inches of leverage, but it's also the weight that it is.

Understanding Boat Balance Points

Speaker 5 35:37

And there's a reason why it bounces because you over-trim, you know, if you want to get the nose up in the air. So let's everybody know that you don't have to trim the motor until she bounces. She bounces because it's trimming, trimming, trimming, trimming. There is a point where the boat doesn't bounce and the boat is riding on the water right. So let's everybody, you know, we want to make sure everybody knows that the trim unit on your motor is there for a reason. You can run the motor flat, the boat flat, you can trim it up to get the bow up, to get more speed, but if the boat isn't set up, the trim to the maximum, that's where you get the balance. And the balancing is not a situation where, uh, it's a bad bow, bad setup, bad motor, bad motor, bad prop situation. It's just an out-of-balance situation.

Speaker 4 36:26

Yeah, it's falling on its face.

Speaker 5 36:28

And I always tell people. It's like this man you go out there and buy a $6,000 set of mud tires and you take the $4 weights off the tires. What happens? The tire starts bouncing right. Oh yeah, so basically you take it from here. Mathematically, the weight behind the transom is the issue.

Speaker 1 36:47

Yeah, I mean it's. It's definitely. Getting a heavy jack plate that has the inches of setback that you need is very crucial for more, for more than one reason. You know, as an example, we had a boat that we were throwing on a scale, getting the tongue weights out of earlier today, out on the plant and you know we put in 48 pounds worth of fuel right under the back deck and it only changed the balance point of the boat by seven pounds, and the reason being is because it was closer to the balance point, the weight wasn't exactly transferable. I don't know how to make that make sense.

Speaker 4 37:26

It wasn't behind the balance point Right. It wasn't behind the balance point.

Speaker 1 37:29

But if I took that 48 pounds and say I moved it back six inches, instead of seven pound difference.

Speaker 1 37:36

It could have been 20 pounds or 25 pounds. You know what I mean. It would have been more of a transfer of weight to help you leverage the whole and get the balance happy. And one thing Dad's talking about is, you know, getting a heavy-duty jack plate that has the proper amount of weight and setback. You know, because I see people putting you know spacer plates or whatever it may be, and, yeah, they might be giving you another four inches but they're only giving you leverage, say 10 pounds worth of weight.

Speaker 4 38:10

But if you can get that four inches and 20 pounds or 30 pounds, I mean it'll help you out when I put the four inch on it it did calm the bouncer down and since I did put a uh, like when I'm running by myself or my son's running by himself, we take the trolling motor off the front.

Speaker 4 38:28

But I did put a trolling battery in the back okay and it was like all the way it was to the starboard side of the boat okay so I took the uh, I took the um storage hatch, the plastic storage hatch, off the uh port side and cleared a little bit of the foam out and put the cranking battery on one side and the trolling battery on the other side so it kind of evened the way down the back of the boat Right. So it didn't ride. So you didn't ride going down the river because you got all the way on one side of the boat and that helped. But it's like it's a dog coming off the line. It's got a 15-pitch Vengeance prop on it 15-p. A 15 pitch vengeance prop on it, 15 pitch.

Speaker 1 39:11

Yeah, and I've got the uh mercury um bluetooth box.

Speaker 4 39:13

Well, I think what you call it smart connect or whatever. Yeah, I've got it on the motor and it turns 5700, 55, 5700 rpm, depending on the current and where I'm running. But it's just like sometimes it's like when my son's in the boat because I've really bought the duck hunt out of and I'm building a duck line on it, right I don't want it to bounce.

Speaker 4 39:29

I don't want it to bounce, but I also needed to tote some weight, yeah, and like when me and my son get in it, it's like a dog coming off the off the off a plane, and like you touch the trim very much and it's going to bounce. So when you put your blind and add weight to it you might have to drop down to a 14-pitch prop. Would you go with a 14 on four-blade? Or I wouldn't go no less than 14. I mean, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't go less than 14.

Speaker 4 39:58

Yeah, four blade is going to pull more weight.

Speaker 1 40:00

Yeah, it's going to definitely be able to haul more gear with a four blade for sure.

Speaker 4 40:07

I will say that the boat, my son. He weighs 150 pounds and with the app it controls by the GPS. It shows the speed. He has got it 40 to 41. I wish I could get a little bit more out of it it's a 50 mercury, correct?

Speaker 5 40:23

yeah, 60, mercury, 656, that's dbst, that's a big heavy boat.

Speaker 5 40:27

Well the thing about it, though, if if the bus not completely balanced it's hard to get to let the motor push the boat forward, if that sense, because your motor is kind of fighting your prop, is fighting the bow, it's fighting the boat. It's kind of like taking your AC off of a drag car. You know you want all the power you can get to your motor so everything has to be in sync and that's going to be your weight and balance. It's going to be your weight and balance, your counterbalance.

Speaker 1 40:55

Yeah, the hop that you have, that you're talking about, is it like a fast violent?

Speaker 4 41:03

hop, or is it a slow drawn out hop? No, it's, it's fast, you start it. When you start trimming up like you only get probably a quarter trim, it starts bouncing fast.

Speaker 5 41:10

So every fast hop you get out, there is a weight and balance issue. It's no different than taking the weights off your tires. Okay, that's what it is. It's a weight and balance issue. So you know. I mean, um, the jack plate, the weight behind your transom, is the point. I mean, did you discuss I have to step up for a second but yeah, did you discuss the weight off, the balance point of the boat? Yeah, so you know, get your boat back in the. You know, at the house, look at the boat, get it balanced and that's going to be your first step. You know a lot of guys will go in and they'll start buying props, buying props and buying props. But you know, on the 660 track we can run 10 props and be within four tenths of a miles.

Speaker 4 41:55

Four, yeah, and you got a good prop, didn't you say vengeance?

Speaker 1 41:59

You do have a good prop.

Speaker 4 42:01

That's a good prop.

Speaker 5 42:02

So I mean we spend thousands of dollars on race props and it'd be within four-tenths of all of them, if that Sometimes two.

Speaker 5 42:10

Yeah, sometimes it's two. So a lot of people get hung up on props. But if the boat is balanced right and you got the proper setback in the boat and let the boat do its job, then the prop is the last thing you worry about. You know, that's the biggest problem. We see this all the time and the six-inch is probably the six-inch kickbacks or everybody makes some bobs advances. That's the biggest issue right now. That's the biggest issue I see everywhere is because it's just not enough setback. Unless you buy an rdb or a mod 40 or a marsh runner that's designed for less setback. Um, you're just not gonna get it. You're just not gonna get the performance. You're not not going to get it. You're just not going to get the performance. You're not going to get the performance that you see on TikTok and Facebook anyways.

Speaker 1 42:58

Without adding more setback, without having the extra weight and inches of setback back there in combination to balance the boat out.

Speaker 5 43:13

Yeah, we have a 2,000-pound center console running on a drain plug. Yeah, we have a 2,000-pound center console running on a drain plug. But it took a lot of weight, a lot of counterweight, and it took a 250-horse motor to counterweight that hull to get it to run on its balancing point of the boat.

Speaker 4 43:29

Mm-hmm, I got you. I know this. When I sit in the front Like when I sit in the front seat he drives and it won't bounce as bad, but it's just like. Like it comes off the line. Good, but it's just.

Speaker 5 43:38

I got so much weight in the front, you know well, the reason why that is is if your balancing point is below your feet, it's not. It's not below your feet, it's in front of your feet, the way you're sounding, okay. So what happens is your boat, your motor, is your prop is trying to pick that boat up. Okay, your balancing point is in front of your feet, okay, so it has to pick your boat up past the balancing point and that's your hop yeah, it's basically like a rocking chair yeah that's your, that's your hop you got.

Speaker 5 44:05

if your balancing point was behind your feet or where your butt was sitting in the boat, your butt would pick it up, naturally. But you're actually trying to pick that boat up in midair with your prop. And then what a violent hop is is when your prop releases the water. Okay, boom, boom, boom. I mean she's trying to grab it. She's trying to grab it. She's trying to grab it. The nose is too heavy, the prop can't hold her up and that's where your hop comes from. And when your boat sits on the water, there's a point in your boat where it's weightless. So if you put 25 gallons of weight, like if you put 25 gallons of fuel in the nose of your boat, that 25 gallons of fuel is going to weigh more than 25 gallons because it's 14 foot from your balance point in your boat. But if you put the same 25 gallons of fuel at the balance point of your boat, it's weightless.

Speaker 1 44:59

Does that make sense? It doesn't have a negative effect or a positive effect on the balance point.

Speaker 5 45:05

Now this is the tricky part, though. If you take the 25 pounds on the balance point, it's weightless, but if you take the same 25 pounds and you move it 3 inches behind your balance point, it might not be 25 pounds, it only might be 15.

Speaker 1 45:19

Yep, and that's what I was saying earlier about the seven pounds. Yes, 48 pounds of gas yes, only changed the balance point. Tongue weight yes, seven pounds.

Speaker 5 45:29

And what I'm seeing all over the internet is people's like let's add weight, let's add weight. Add weight Bullshit. Don't add weight. It's add weight. Add weight bullshit, because don't add weight, move weight around. Yeah, you guys got this complete backwards. You can't add weight. Don't put a band-aid on the scar, put some antibiotics on it. You know, I mean, don't just band-aid it. And that's the problem. I think a lot of people's overthinking the stuff. They try to counterbalance the problem instead of figuring out what the problem is and it. It's basically simply this simple when you buy a set of tires and don't balance your tires, you don't get good performance, and boats are no difference.

Speaker 4 46:08

Your fuel tank is in the back right. Yes, Fuel tank, both batteries in the back of the boat.

Speaker 5 46:15

Yeah, I mean you got the counterweight back there, but your counterweight the weight on the back of the boat. Yeah, I mean you got the counterweight back there, but your counterweight the weight behind the back of the boat. It may or may not be within 12 inches from the balance point of your boat, it doesn't matter so the weight's not really as much weight it's not as much weight as you think. It is yeah right, because if you.

Speaker 4 46:34

If you were to throw a power pole on, it probably drive perfect yes, yes, exactly.

Speaker 5 46:39

You could take the battery out of your bow and put the power pole on your jack plate. That kind of power pole may weigh 100 pounds, but it will weigh 130 pounds because it's 12 inches from the bounce point of your boat I guess, If that makes sense.

Speaker 4 46:56

Oh yeah, it makes lots of sense.

Speaker 5 46:58

Yes, and a lot of people don't understand that A violent hop is not a slow boat, a violent hop is not a bad boat. A violent hop is an unbalanced boat.

Speaker 3 47:07

Yep.

Speaker 4 47:09

I got you. I just wish I could get that mercury turned up like you can turn the Yamaha's and stuff up and get a little bit more power out of it.

Speaker 1 47:16

You if you turn it up, like you can turn the Yamahas and stuff up and get a little bit more power out of it, you and me both, brother. More power is always better.

Speaker 5 47:19

But you will be surprised though this is what all these people don't understand You'll be surprised what that 60 Merc can do when that boat isn't holding it back. Yeah, when it's happy. That boat right now is holding that motor back and the reason why it's holding it back is because it just ain't balanced. She don't know where she needs to run. She's. She's on her secondary pad, primary pad, she's pushing water, the rakes cupping water your valley, and not only. Not only that. A lot of people don't understand too, when you have a kicking jack or a jack plate that moves, that when that boat is hopping that prop is moving in a water column. It doesn't give the prop an opportunity to hold the water, it releases water and it just magnifies the problem. I mean, you never see a race boat with a jack plate that moves.

Speaker 2 48:08

Yeah.

Speaker 4 48:09

How long have you had that?

Speaker 2 48:10

boat Three months.

Speaker 4 48:15

How many hours do you think you put on it? It's got over 20 hours.

Speaker 5 48:19

Yeah.

Speaker 4 48:21

So I got a 15-year-old that whenever he's not at work and he's got a chance, he's hooked that boat and going to the river. Yeah, I hear you I hear you.

Speaker 5 48:30

That's awesome, dude, that is awesome. But yeah, I mean, that's one reason we're doing these podcasts is because you know it's really crazy how boats work and how all that works together to prop jack plate and counterweights and all this stuff, and I think a lot of people just don't understand that a boat is like a seesaw Yep.

Speaker 3 48:50

That's it, I got you.

Speaker 5 48:53

It runs like it sits.

Speaker 4 48:55

I got you so I start. I need to start practicing and, uh, try and move a different weight around in the boat, maybe getting the batteries more to the back of the boat and see if that don't help it out a lot you can move.

Speaker 5 49:07

You can move a battery in your trunk three inches further back and it makes a difference where your boat runs it does, it does, it's all the uh.

Speaker 1 49:15

Basically it's just the distance from the balance point. How can you get your weight located, you know, corresponding with the balance?

Speaker 5 49:23

and I always tell people too I mean, go ahead, weigh your tongue, your boat, put your tongue, your boat, on the bathroom scale. If it's 200 pounds, and you need to figure out a way to get that 200 pounds down to 70 pounds- and you said you had a battery in the uh compartment.

Speaker 4 49:38

Right, yeah, which doesn't help.

Speaker 5 49:40

There's which doesn't help if it was a lithium battery, though no, I mean, but really though it'd be more weight in the back it's so close to a balancing point that 50 pound battery might only make a change of 20 pounds yeah, but you know, I doubt even that.

Speaker 4 49:53

But if it's in front of the balance point it's gonna going to make it worse.

Speaker 5 49:57

That's right, and I always tell people too I get so pumped up about this shit, I love this shit, but check this out All right. Check this out All right. If you get a buddy that picks up the tongue of your boat, okay, he's strong enough to hold the tongue of your boat and you get in that boat. There is a certain place in that boat that you can stand, that he's not strained, he can hold that up.

Speaker 4 50:18

Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 50:19

That's the damn point you've got to find right there. Yeah, that's what you've got to find, and you've got to put that point on the water. That's the deal. So you think about this. You hold that tongue up. You hold that tongue up. You take two feet in front of the bouncing point.

Speaker 5 50:36

That guy can't hold that boat up, no more okay, he takes three steps back, he can hold that boat up. That's how that boat, that's a sweet spot you're looking for and that boat runs and that's gonna put all the power to your prop.

Speaker 4 50:46

And that's when you smoke ass yeah, and you can do this with a scale. Just put your your jack on a scale again and, uh, you can do all this I mean we'll get our race boats down to like 10 or 12, 16 pounds, our rdb drag was like negative 14, you know 14 pounds on the pile.

Speaker 5 51:04

I'm like, oh shit, I don't know. I don't know if this is gonna work yeah, my mod 40 with 80 inches setback.

Speaker 4 51:09

You can hear it back here on a tongue going down the road, oh horrible pulling, but hey, hey we pulled the boat out of the plant the other day.

Speaker 5 51:16

It's a new model we just built. We just pulled it out and old B Scott, I was backing up to the truck and old B Scott was putting that tongue on that ball and I was thinking, hey boy, is she heavier than I thought she goes. She's pretty damn light.

Speaker 1 51:29

I'm like this son of a bitch is going to run, boy.

Speaker 5 51:40

Yeah, I can, yeah, I can grab that trailer and tell you what she's gonna do. And you know what, if that thing is? Hey, if that thing is too heavy, I said let's put some power poles on it. You know what I mean. And and once we put the power poles on it, then we match the prop to the weight. We match it. We might need a bigger diameter prop when he might need less pitch. Like shockley said earlier, we need to keep that motor in this power band. We need to keep the motor pushing at the peak of his power and that's where you adjust a prop to your balance point of your boat and that's when. That's when she'll wake up. Yep for sure I got you.

Speaker 4 52:06

Well see, what you just explained to me makes a lot of sense, because I used to move furniture, I used to deliver. Uh, back in the day, when I was younger, I used to deliver furniture and appliances, and whenever you put appliances on the cart, there's a balancing point on that cart.

Speaker 3 52:19

Oh, yeah, you can hold it with one finger.

Speaker 4 52:21

You can hold a 400-pound refrigerator with one finger and move it around just as long as it's in that balancing point. But if it ever comes towards you, the key, if it ever got away from you, it's going to fall.

Speaker 5 52:29

That's right. So that makes a lot of sense. What you see, same scenario, it's the same thing, and the only difference from this situation to you is you're actually the Mercury motor. It's a lot easier for you to push the product on the balance point, as if you're not pushing on that balance point. Yep. I guess, you can work a lot longer.

Speaker 4 52:51

I need to start working some weight around and see if I can figure it out.

Speaker 5 52:54

And remember it's the balance point of the boat, with you sitting in the boat.

Speaker 3 53:00

Yes.

Speaker 5 53:00

All right. So you need to get in the boat, get your wife or buddy or something, watch the scale, figure it out, make adjustments and move that 40-pound battery three more inches. Not just moving the battery.

Speaker 1 53:14

And for an example, we weighed a boat this morning more inches, not just moving. And for an example, we weighed a boat this morning and with the, with the motor battery, empty gas tank, jack plate, everything on there, we had 70 pounds on the tongue. Well, when I got in the boat in a position where I was going to drive it, the tongue weight went down to 42 pounds. So you know, we lost just under 30 pounds. Now I weigh 200 pounds, but if I weighed 280 it it would have ended up weighing less. So I mean, it's a little different for everybody also, uh, why we're on this?

Speaker 5 53:46

let's explain the trolling motor, the light bars. Okay, so when you're setting a boat up, the idea is getting the as much less weight you can on the bow to cover the trolling motor. You know you want a boat that runs on the plug, runs on this tail end with a trolling motor in your fishing load, right? Well, a lot of people what they don't understand. They don't adjust the boat for that. So if you know your trolling motor is going to weigh 100 pounds, you need to build your boat accordingly. So you have to take all that weight off the nose before you start building the front end of your boat. Okay, and if you do that first, then your boat will perform really nice loaded down with the fishing equipment yep you know, that's.

Proper Jack Plate Selection and Setup

Speaker 5 54:32

That's what people don't understand. They'll get a boat. They'll put a damn six inch jack plate on it, which is crazy. They'll put this on there because everybody sells them right. And they'll put this trolling motor, They'll put the screens on their front deck and next thing you know, their boat's going to run and their props are blowing out. Well, you know why their props are blowing out Because they can't pick up the damn boat.

Speaker 1 54:59

And the boat worth of leverage is more than 100 pounds.

Speaker 4 55:01

But that motor's got to fight against because it's 13 foot from the balancing point yep nice man explains a lot, so I wanted to get to working on some adjusting some weight around weight weight is your friend.

Speaker 5 55:14

Setback, is that setback? A lot of people get confused on setback and weight counterweight setback. The only reason why you go from 6 to 10 to 12 inches is you actually using the motors counterweight. Yep, that's the only reason why you have the, the options. But you can also get a gen 3 uh bobs. That, uh, you get a gen 3 bobs uh. Hydraulic jack plate with a six inch that weighs as much as a 10 inch standard bobs. You see what I'm saying, so yeah, so you.

Speaker 5 55:47

You take the gen 3 action. Uh, bobs, that weighs way more or less setback. You're going to improve your whole shot. So there's a lot more to it than what people think yeah, I mean it.

Speaker 1 55:59

There is a lot to it. You just gotta play with it and, man, keep us updated, dude, I mean, if you got any more questions, do feel free to call us and, and you know, we'll definitely help you work through your setup.

Speaker 4 56:08

Man, keep working with you I appreciate it, I really do.

Speaker 1 56:11

I thank y'all guys for a lot of your time. Have a good one.

Speaker 2 56:16

Bye.

Speaker 5 56:19

That was a really good call and it's so, like, I think, a lot of these people. It's like that guy right there, dude, as soon as he clicked in his head, he clicked in his head, you know, and like you just don't know how to show people or give them examples, but for him it was moving furniture, it's the same damn thing. It's the same damn thing Until you realize what clicks. What clicks? I mean to get you to understand it. To me it's fun, it's like a puzzle.

Speaker 3 56:50

It really is.

Speaker 5 56:52

The next thing in all this is dead rise. What is the dead rise of the hull? How does it affect the balancing point of the boat? Because you've got 8 degrees, you've got 4 degrees, 6 degrees, you've got 10, 20. You've got these bass boats out there that run 20-degree dead rise. You've got these Allison's that run a lot of dead rise, but the boats weigh 260 pounds. We're running a 780 boat. You know 800 pound duck hunting boats. So you know, how does the dead rise affect the weight? And can the motor actually clean the hole up to run efficiently? Um, there's just a lot to it. Um, only thing I know to do is just keep calling and keep helping people.

Speaker 5 57:30

You know, but isn't that crazy? Isn't that just crazy?

Speaker 4 57:36

how simple it is oh yeah, it is, you know when you start thinking about it. It's just like a race car. You have to scale a race car, you do you do.

Speaker 5 57:44

I just think maybe people doesn't think that uh, boats are that complex, like it's just aluminum welded together, you'd be surprised at the amount of boat owners that are that's it's their first boat yeah, it is they think you're.

Speaker 4 57:56

You buy a boat, throw a motor on it yeah ride, and it's just not that way I get caught.

Speaker 3 58:01

It's crazy too, because some people don't like that's what they want. They just won't, they don't care, I ride.

Speaker 4 58:05

Well, they need to put it in there.

Speaker 3 58:06

Just I just want to put, put down the river, you know well, they need to buy a mock one yeah, yeah, I mean you, you can literally dose anything on that and and I think they'll just ride. And maybe we've got to tell people more or less like hey, like I still see that people are still trying to start to learn what model does what. You know what I mean.

Speaker 5 58:24

Yeah yeah, I get lost in the whole situation. I'm 47 years old. A lot of these guys just not getting their first boats. They were born when I was getting into boat business and I get caught up in that shit. You know, I get lost.

Speaker 5 58:36

People really don't know yeah you know, and my wife gets on me all the time because she's like tim they just don't know what you know. I'm like what do you mean? You don't know what they don't know? I mean it's freaking common sense. I mean, this is what you do for a living. But it's not, you know. You know, this is what I do for a living, you know? Yeah, we were talking about that earlier.

Speaker 1 58:53

It's kind of like fishing.

Speaker 3 58:54

You go to a lake you'd think you would know. If somebody tells you something you'd be like, wow, why didn't I think of that? It happens all the time, at least to me, I know it does.

Speaker 1 59:04

A lot of times it makes perfect sense. Yeah, tyler tells you something and you're like well, daryl.

Speaker 5 59:14

Why were you not thinking that I know?

Speaker 1 59:15

I'm a firm believer in it. I've said this for the longest time you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, you don't even know, you don't know it Like a crankbait ride Like remember. Yeah.

Speaker 3 59:33

You know, I could be 710, it'd make it a lot easier.

Speaker 5 59:36

That's right, Anyway y'all want to get on the call? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, let's get caught up on some calls. We got like 10 or 15 calls. I still brought my first boat.

Speaker 3 59:43

I brought it back to the boat point and you set it up for me. Yeah, my very first one I bought. You're right, here you go, is that Mississippi?

Speaker 1 59:57

Hello, hey, what's going on? You're on Off the Clock with Beast Guy. I got Daryl Moore, Michael Shockley and Tim Scott with me. Who are you and where are you calling from?

Speaker 4 1:00:06

Hey, yeah, I was calling. I had some questions just about the setup.

Speaker 1 1:00:10

Yeah, go ahead. What kind of setup?

Speaker 4 1:00:14

It's a 7.56 Marsh Runner 7.56 Marsh Runner.

Speaker 5 1:00:18

Is it gen 1 or gen 2? Gen2?

Speaker 4 1:00:22

sorry, what was that?

Speaker 5 1:00:25

is it gen 2? No, it's a gen 1 okay what you got.

Speaker 4 1:00:31

I've got a 92 stroke on the back of it all right. I was just wondering how does moving weight around in the hull itself affect it, like if I was to have another person sit on the back with me? Should I jack my motor up down?

Speaker 1 1:00:47

What kind of jack plate do you have on the boat? For one I got a Bob's. A Bob's Like kicking jack, six inch.

Speaker 4 1:00:54

Yes, I'm running 10 inches of setback on it. I got four inch spacers and jack six inch. Yes, I'm running a 10-inch setback on it, I got four-inch spacers and a six-inch jack.

Speaker 1 1:00:59

Point, okay, four-inch spacers.

Speaker 4 1:01:00

Okay, all right, it should actually ride better with her in it or with somebody else in there. Yeah, you don't think it should have to move up or down at all. Yeah, she will have to adjust it some. Yeah, it's not as much as you would think. I would say maybe an inch.

Speaker 5 1:01:18

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Speaker 2 1:01:22

What you got going on.

Speaker 4 1:01:23

Usually it's down. Usually you go down when you're at a person.

Speaker 1 1:01:25

What you got going on. How's the rig run with just you in it?

Speaker 4 1:01:29

Oh, it runs fine with me. I can pick it up and make it run Smooth as butter.

Speaker 5 1:01:34

Yeah, you just have to adjust your jack plate up and down also. It might be a prop selection too yeah, what's it doing with?

Speaker 4 1:01:40

oh, somebody's sitting in there with you. It likes to hop around. Yeah, that's just.

Speaker 5 1:01:45

Your motor height needs might need to come up if it's hopping yeah, yeah, yeah if it's single, yeah if you're by yourself, raise the motor up, get some weight in there, drop the motor down yeah, I just wasn't sure how it affected like having somebody else, because I know I got it out here, just me.

Speaker 1 1:02:00

I just wasn't sure what it did when you actually put somebody else in it with yeah, a lot of times, you know, as far as balance points definitely not hurting your balance point, you just might have to jack it up some.

Speaker 5 1:02:09

The problem, the problem that I see with this and, being honestly truthful, I know the boat runs good and everything, but I just gotta put my two cents in. I still, you know, I still I still want to get an idea that, yeah, setback does help, but you could go to a solid jack plate and get more benefits with less setback with that particular boat and get better performance. Yeah, I just gotta put my two cents in there, because I'm not a big fan of of, uh, of legos. I hate legos and I hate legos on a boat too. So when you start stacking jack plates with spacers, that you don't get the true effect of the weight of the jack plate, and I think that's a really important part of your setup and I think I just feel like in our situations, we've always got the best performance with a solid unit. Yeah, and and the proper balance point of your boat even though your boat runs good, it doesn't mean it's the best it could be.

Speaker 4 1:03:06

It could always be better yeah and I got a 12 gallon tank up front. Y'all think I should move a six gallon to the back oh my gosh that's terrible yep for sure that'll help a lot that you probably won't even have to move your motor with her or whoever besides you, if you move it to the back.

Speaker 5 1:03:25

That'll help a ton so you might can run your gas tank in the back and go with less setback. With a heavier setback. Then you improve your whole shot and it would carry a load better in your rear deck that's a.

Speaker 4 1:03:40

That's a hundred, almost 100 pounds of fuel alone, plus it's past your balance point, so it's actually more weight than that absolutely yeah, absolutely, and think about it is too is like you know.

Speaker 1 1:03:49

You're running right now 10 inches total, but you don't have setback, and it's a marsh runner that has a six inch built-in setback, so you really run 16 16 you're really running 16 total inches of setback when the when the boat's on its primary pad and you could probably move that gas tank to the back. We'll put a six gallon gas tank in the back and you might could take those. Uh, you might get away with taking those four inch spacers off.

Speaker 5 1:04:16

That's what I would do. It's off, that's what I would do. It's going to lift that's what I would do. I would move your gas tank to the back, take your spacers off and your bus will run better.

Speaker 4 1:04:23

You can tell a noticeable difference when you're running it, when you get low on fuel, can't you? Yeah, I can tell a big difference when I run. Like three gallons of sun put like three gallons in the tank, yeah, it's because your price is still you move your tank to the back. It'll run like that with a full tank. With a full tank.

Speaker 5 1:04:38

Yeah, that's right, Absolutely yeah because the balance point of your boat is somewhere under your butt, somewhere, I'd say, maybe under your knees. Yeah, then if you move your gas tank from the front to the back, you're only going to move it three, four inches past your knees. That you're only going to move it three, four inches past your knees and it's really not that much weight for that boat. So if you run all your way, if you run that gas tank but near your balance point about boat, it's weightless. But if you run all that weight to the front you're adding a lot of strain to your prop, your motor. If that makes sense, you really, you really leave a lot of money on the table there.

Speaker 1 1:05:15

Oh, yeah, like once you move that stuff around, dude, you're gonna leaving a lot of money on the table there. Oh yeah, once you move that stuff around, dude, you're going to have a hell of a running boat. It's going to be running.

Speaker 5 1:05:20

good yeah, she'll really enjoy it.

Speaker 1 1:05:21

You thought it ran good before.

Speaker 4 1:05:24

It's going to run faster. It's going to be running cleaner.

Speaker 5 1:05:30

And it's probably going to float the nose a little bit more and more likely you're not going to have yeah with your passenger in the boat, because at that point you can adjust everything with your jack plate.

Speaker 4 1:05:37

Yeah, I bet you, I bet Bay Scott's right, I bet you won't even have to touch your jack plate once you move that weight around.

Speaker 5 1:05:41

Yeah, I didn't know. He had a gas tank up front.

Speaker 1 1:05:43

I didn't either. That makes a lot of sense, yeah.

Speaker 5 1:05:46

No man.

Speaker 1 1:05:57

Only way I'd ever run a counterweight up front and I ran really shallow water or I was running an mstc or something. You know. In that situation you, you got a specific hole you're running in mind and you know it's a specific setup.

Speaker 5 1:06:03

For that one thing, yeah, if I'm running flood timber, you know we get the boat. Needs are just shallow, shallow, shallow. I would disperse the weight across the bottom of the platform and that will help your boat run shallower yeah, but if you're doing that, you're not trying to float the nose anyway, so that's right.

Speaker 4 1:06:19

Well, nowadays, everybody tries to float the nose I don't want.

Speaker 3 1:06:26

I want to see my boat flat when I'm duck hunting.

Speaker 5 1:06:29

Yeah, I want it like this I want to see.

Speaker 3 1:06:30

I hate riding like.

Speaker 5 1:06:31

A lot of people don't understand. The rakes is what turns the boat yeah, that's.

Speaker 3 1:06:35

That's the steering wheel, right like you know, people be driving, like you know, some boats maybe like this, and I'm like how can you see going through the woods? Yeah, yeah, that's crazy, but, but, but but your situation.

Speaker 5 1:06:44

But I would, uh, I would try to move your weight around and I would reduce the amount of uh setback you got. And if you did want to go back to the further setback, I would go to a solid jack plate instead of the Lego term, pretty much, because just because you have inches you go back inches. You need girth too, you know you need weight. It's not always about length. You know you need that girth and the setback is what really the weight of the setback is the key when it balances the boat.

Speaker 1 1:07:18

All right, I think you know. Yes, sir, man, you have a great day.

Speaker 4 1:07:20

Yes, sir, you too All right man, bye, you start talking about girth he got off the phone, didn't? He. Here's the deal. It's just true. You don't have to have length, I think a lot of people don't understand that length isn't everything.

Speaker 1 1:07:33

It's girth and length.

Speaker 5 1:07:34

You know what?

Speaker 1 1:07:35

I'm saying it takes both, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 5 1:07:37

Yeah, Both terms. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 1:07:39

You don't want to have just length In real life or just girth. You need to have length and girth.

Speaker 5 1:07:46

It's just the counterweight. You know what was those things back in the middle? You know rocks and stuff, catapults.

Speaker 1 1:07:55

Catapults. Trebleshays what was it called? I think it's Trebleshay, isn't it? I don't know what it's called Is that where they are.

Speaker 4 1:08:02

I've never heard the term Trebleshay Me either.

Speaker 1 1:08:04

Somebody look up a Trebleshay, don't have my guys make that up.

Speaker 3 1:08:06

I know a Trebleshay, a Trebleshay.

Speaker 1 1:08:10

I can. That's B-A. I don't know how you spell it, though that's some of that Malvern shit.

Speaker 3 1:08:16

Malvern, shit Y'all never, like Triple O Sheaf.

Speaker 5 1:08:20

I graduated high school from Texas. Oh, he's right. Wow, oh, that's it See, you see the counterweight back there.

Speaker 3 1:08:26

That's crazy, he actually. You see the counterweight yeah.

Speaker 1 1:08:31

That's how that works. Arm. That's the leverage. That's the leverage.

Speaker 5 1:08:34

That's what is there any way we can get a picture of that? Because that's basically how a boat works, the type of catapult, trojan shit. You know that's that's basically how a boat works. There's your motor, there's your value for boat.

Speaker 1 1:08:45

See that and that long arm is more leverage for throwing the projectile.

Speaker 5 1:08:50

I think a lot of people don't understand that. It's that damn simple. Where's the balancing point of? And you know, these guys figured this out freaking? How many years ago Was this freaking?

Speaker 1 1:08:59

100, 200 years ago, A long time that's for sure. Anyways, we're getting a phone call. Boom. I know what Troubleshay is. Y'all can suck it.

Speaker 3 1:09:09

I thought you made that up honestly.

Speaker 1 1:09:11

Hey, what's going on, man? You're on Off the Clock with B Scott. I got Michael Shockley, Darryl Moore, Tim Scott with me. Who are you and where are you calling from?

Speaker 4 1:09:17

How's it going? My name's Trey. I'm calling from Minnesota, Awesome man.

Speaker 1 1:09:23

You got a Havoc boat.

Speaker 4 1:09:26

I used to, but now I got a low-side edge.

Speaker 5 1:09:30

What's going on with your edge?

Speaker 4 1:09:34

I just got this thing. I had a VJST before I just got this thing. I had a VJST before. I just got a stock Mercury 40 on it, a two stroke and a Bob's kicking jack and I'm having a little bit of problems like low speed hop, so like when I'm going slow it doesn't want to do nothing but just go fast. Laughing.

Speaker 1 1:10:00

That sounds like a good problem to have Don't sound like a horrible problem.

Speaker 3 1:10:02

All right Okay.

Speaker 5 1:10:06

So what does that mean? So are you like a super heavy guy? What do you weigh? You're over 200 pounds. I'm like 240, 230.

Speaker 4 1:10:14

Okay, that's what.

Speaker 5 1:10:15

I thought that's what I thought. I imagine it's pretty heavy. I weigh 220. I'm heavy too. So what happens is I knew that route the bat because you got a low side edge and they're going to be able to 15 foot or so you're bouncing 47, right.

Speaker 4 1:10:31

So, wow, that's a small boat.

Speaker 5 1:10:33

That makes even worse because of on the boat, so I knew exactly where he's going with this, and your problem is your balance point is too far back.

Speaker 2 1:10:41

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 5 1:10:43

Your balance point is too far back back because you now, if you weighed 180 pounds, it wouldn't do that. Yeah, okay, so you're a little too heavy for the size of the boat, so you need to move the counterweight forward you know just a little bit to let the boat ride and it might not be that much like you might only have to move it.

Speaker 1 1:11:03

You know, eight inches or so worth of balance point in your hole to be able to actually be able to run those low speeds without hopping like that. How much setback is that you had.

Speaker 5 1:11:14

Just a six-inch kicking jack. Yeah, it's just too much.

Speaker 1 1:11:17

It's just a small bug.

Speaker 4 1:11:20

The thing I was worried about was it so, like on my VJST, the transom angle is I can't remember off the top of my head, but it was like 20 degrees, and then this one it's like right at 11. Yeah, so I'm really not getting enough like negative trim out of it. So I was thinking about throwing some wedges on it and see if that would help.

Speaker 5 1:11:41

Wedges will help it. Yep, wedges will help it. Yep, wages will help it a ton. I was about to say that that's a. That's a common thing with edges. Is you gotta have transfer wedges? Um, right, uh, that's not a bad thing. I mean, I get, I got this really big ass bass boat that I run. I got wedges on mine too, so it's not a bad thing. Um, so, yeah, you need some wedges, needs a positive trim. But also, you know, like I said, you're a heavy guy, you got a small boat, small platform. It's because it's kind of like putting a big guy on a small ski, you know so you need to adjust your.

Speaker 5 1:12:11

You know your balance on your boat. Get your boat to run more flat does it need positive, it needs negative.

Weight Distribution Principles

Speaker 4 1:12:19

He's gonna be trying to go real fast. He got me hopping a five mile an hour. Yeah, no, he definitely negative yeah, my bad, I'm planning on putting a mega on it eventually yeah, but do you do you think it would be too much weight if I put my? I got a six gallon gas tank. Do you think it'd be too much weight if I put it in the sun? No, I was gonna say that while I go no, no, that's probably what you need, that probably what yeah well to be with you.

Speaker 1 1:12:44

If you're putting a mega on it, you're going to save some weight on the motor side.

Speaker 5 1:12:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:12:48

Which means, like balance point-wise it might be right. That's going to probably balance it out to where it might be right with you having a mega on there.

Speaker 5 1:12:58

But if I was on the size of your boat, with the dead rise of your hull it's, you know, it's eight degrees, um, it's a 15 foot boat, it's a, it's not a wide boat, so it's not. It's just not as buoyant and you in your, the size you are, uh, I would not. I would put the gas tank up front. I would, I would and I would put the gas thing up front and I would run the wedges to get a little more tuck. And you should be golden man, right I?

Speaker 4 1:13:26

mean like right now it's good, like on the top end it the water comes off the back of the boat and I mean it gets a little bit of lift out of it. It's a low side edge so I mean it's not gonna ride to the moon, but you can make it right, you can ride, you can right. That's what Quentin used to race exact boat. I didn't even really want to, I just wanted to run efficiently and just haul out water.

Speaker 5 1:13:51

Well, right now it is a run efficiently other than the low end. You're not getting your low end, kind of like what you're looking for, and that's why a lot of people get confused where they really want to have. You know, if you lift a bow way too much with an 8-degree hole, you're going to be shoving water out of the sides anyway and you're going to be super slow. You'll look really good on TikTok and stuff, but other than that, if you're not TikTok-ing, it's not.

Speaker 1 1:14:15

yeah, A lot of those guys don't talk about their actual speeds.

Speaker 5 1:14:17

Yeah, it's for good.

Speaker 4 1:14:19

I don't care much about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's pretty, you're one of few.

Speaker 5 1:14:25

Yeah, that's pretty.

Speaker 4 1:14:26

That's a new training day.

Speaker 5 1:14:28

Let's over-trim our boat, bury your stern in the water about eight inches and beat the crap out of your boat.

Speaker 1 1:14:33

Yeah, let's ride a wave. That you know.

Speaker 4 1:14:34

Yeah, no-transcript yeah, well that that helps me a lot.

Speaker 4 1:14:56

I guess I mean the only thing I really need is a lot more prop, because I'm running the same the same props I was running on my d, which is a little bit I mean, it's a little bit bigger of a boat so I was turning a 14 turbo at like rev limiter at like 41, 42 miles an hour, and then this one. I'm like I've got the rev limiter pulled on this Merc so I don't have a tackle stuff. But if I had, to guess I'm spinning way over six. Yeah, that boat's light, yeah, it's probably not very good for it.

Speaker 5 1:15:26

No, I would definitely go.

Speaker 4 1:15:27

I would say 16.

Speaker 5 1:15:29

I'd go 16 pitch because it's a light boat.

Speaker 4 1:15:31

Yeah, I'm wanting to put a 16 YBS on it or like a 16 turbo, but I just can't do it right now.

Speaker 5 1:15:38

If you hop on our gear shot. We do sell YBSs and they are pretty. You know they're priced right.

Speaker 4 1:15:45

Yeah, we do sell.

Speaker 5 1:15:45

YBSs and they are pretty. You know they're priced right. Yeah, you guys got them priced at, probably the best price I've seen.

Speaker 4 1:15:48

Yes sir, yes sir.

Speaker 5 1:15:49

Hop on there, get you one of them, and it'll definitely help you ride out.

Speaker 1 1:15:52

I think we just got you know. Yeah, we just got some more in, so we should be good.

Speaker 4 1:15:56

Okay, yeah, I'll definitely check that out. Sweet, awesome man.

Speaker 5 1:16:08

Yeah, I awesome man. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, maybe need more help. Just give us a call. Man appreciate you. Yeah, no problem, thank you all, right, later bye. Yeah, so it's crazy, man, you know you get all these boats different brands are all the same you know, and, um, I guess, what the difference is, how the boats are built and what you're built for well as an example.

Speaker 1 1:16:22

He's talking about low speeds and you know hopping or whatnot, and you look like the say the rdbsts right. Well, the performance box, the way it is, it's designed to have more surface area on the bottom of the boat at low speeds yeah and then cleaning up to running more efficiently with less surface area on top end on the top end so I mean that's just a prime example of the generations of how boats developed. Yeah, I mean it's been a long time since we built the edges.

Speaker 5 1:16:50

Man, we built the edges way back then and you know the edges were developed to run the timber. The main focus of the edge was to have a really tight beam, get in between the trees and have an eight-degree hole. You know it gets out whole quick. You run. You run six to eight inches on that bad boy and uh, most of the time back in the day it was cmc.

Speaker 5 1:17:12

Yeah, yeah, you know that was crap back in the day you know, we just ran like 36 miles an hour the dt25. We thought we were big dogs back there, yeah, and now look at us.

Speaker 4 1:17:23

You know what I'm saying? We was big dogs with the dt back then 36 37 miles an hour ain't, nobody could outrun us you know and uh until you hit something and break that little uh clip on the bottom of that pt-35? Yeah, then it flips over in the boat with you, you know uh, but you know it was really.

Speaker 5 1:17:40

It's really cool to see how the edges you know where where the performance dug boat went from went from that to where we're at today. I think we've got something going on with the earphones.

Speaker 4 1:17:51

Yeah, mine's going, my left one's going out, yeah it seems like.

Speaker 5 1:17:56

Houston. We have a problem. Mine's all good Help. I thought somebody said those DTs were running 51. I don't know. 51 miles an hour.

Speaker 3 1:18:03

You see that video that was on social media.

Speaker 1 1:18:05

No, I didn't see that. Who made that? Who was that Dr?

Speaker 4 1:18:07

Duck the video he did Dr Duck who's that. Did he have it on Vidometer?

Speaker 3 1:18:12

No, you remember he made that big video and they were running like body middies.

Speaker 4 1:18:25

There's guys out's running 51.

Speaker 3 1:18:26

Y'all ain't seen that video. It was like viral. It was like a big. It was a big ordeal because everybody would be like, of course it's viral.

Speaker 5 1:18:31

It's not true.

Speaker 3 1:18:31

Yeah, I mean he was being serious.

Speaker 1 1:18:38

He might have just been thinking is about you know, I'm bringing up our gear shop real quick, dude. We got props in there and a lot of people have a hard time finding ybs, especially for good pricing. Yeah, I mean, you are not going to beat our ybs pricing.

Speaker 5 1:18:50

No, we keep the ybs prices down pretty good. We buy a lot of them and and it's such a good prop out of the box you know it is the ybs out of the box for a long time.

Speaker 1 1:18:58

Even when we were racing, it took us a long time to be able to get props work better.

Speaker 5 1:19:03

I don't think if it wasn't for Quentin, we wouldn't run anything but a YBS. I mean, he kept telling us around here props, way to go. You know we just kept. We ran YBS, ybs, ybs, ybs. You know we was winning races, man man, we're getting like tons of phone calls here, but I don't think we should take any more phone calls.

Speaker 4 1:19:25

I think, called in. Yeah, let's definitely start calling back, but YBS is the best out-of-the-box prop.

Speaker 5 1:19:27

Absolutely, the YBS is the best box I would call him Absolutely.

Speaker 4 1:19:30

We keep going back to the races. How much money do we spend at the prop shops on some work?

Speaker 5 1:19:35

Thousands of dollars for props. I'm telling you, you get your bow set up right and I'll go back to this every time you set your boat upright, and you know it's not a big difference between 10 props.

Speaker 1 1:19:46

No, it ain't. Hello. Hey, what's going on? You're on Off the Clock with B Scott. I got Daryl Moore, michael Shockley and Tim Scott with me. Who are you and where are you calling from?

Speaker 4 1:19:57

My name's Michael Taylor. I'm from Orangeburg, South Carolina.

Speaker 5 1:20:01

Awesome man, You're up there by Wayne's Wood and Water.

Speaker 1 1:20:04

Oh yeah, you got a habit yeah.

Speaker 4 1:20:10

I got a habit. So I got a question about the get the shop truck. I got a question about the. I got a DBST with a 70 Yamaha on the back 70 Yamaha.

Speaker 3 1:20:28

Yep, what size is it?

Speaker 1 1:20:30

What size DBST?

Speaker 2 1:20:32

15-53.

Speaker 5 1:20:33

15-53.

Speaker 3 1:20:35

Okay.

Speaker 5 1:20:35

I thought it would be a little bigger.

Speaker 2 1:20:38

Is it a four-stroke South Carolina.

Speaker 4 1:20:41

Here we go. I got some GT25s too, okay, okay, they're not there, they're not coming out west. So I've tried six inches of setback and I've tried 12 inches of setback.

Speaker 5 1:20:56

What's the boat doing? The boat doing a lot of hopping, or what? Yes, hopping with six and 12, or what?

Speaker 4 1:21:04

Yes, it hopped with six and it hopped, yes it it hot with six and it hot with 12.

Speaker 5 1:21:08

the same amount, yes yes, well, there's a big gap between 6 and 12, you know there is so what I did was just trying to play with it.

Speaker 4 1:21:23

I had two breakaways.

Speaker 5 1:21:26

Let me ask you how did you get your 12-inch so?

Speaker 4 1:21:30

I mounted one breakaway and I have some plates to be able to lock it down. Okay, that's the problem. And then I added another one. Okay, that's the problem.

Speaker 5 1:21:42

That's the problem, the reason why I say it's a problem and I go back to this deal. That, I think, is what we call Legos. The more that I see these boats out there, they try to. I think they misunderstand setback. Don't you think so, b Scott? I do. I think a lot of people think setback is. They don't understand why setback works. A lot of people think setback is. They don't understand why setback works. And you know if you go into the bass boat industry, people say setback works because it gets clean water to the prop. That's always been a theory, you know, and that's a certain deal. But I think the big confusion of setback is not necessarily the setback in inches but the weight of the setback Does that make sense.

Speaker 5 1:22:26

So, um, majority of the problems we see. You know we build 40 to 50 havics we should have 40 50 havics a week and we get new customers every week and and and all we got to do is take data and put it together and try to try to figure out what is everybody doing. And the big thing on the Internet is setback, setback, setback. But they don't care how they get the setback, they just want a setback.

Speaker 5 1:22:51

And that's not necessarily the right way of doing it. If you get on Bob's website, get on these performance websites that builds jack plates and everything, they have 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14-inch setbacks. There's a reason why they build a 14-inch setback and a 12-inch setback. You know, if you look at, bob's is a very, very important website because if you get on Bob's website and I love they do this but if you look at the action jack plate they build, which everybody buys, it's a 4, 6, 8, 10 inch setback. The 4 inch weighs 46 pounds. A 6 inch weighs 49, 53, 58, 64 is 79 pounds. But if you go to their gen 3, they're all twice the weight. Okay, so they're twice the weight because they're ready for bigger horsepower motors. But what makes a boat run? It's the length and the weight in the back of the boat yes if that makes sense.

Speaker 5 1:23:52

So I think a lot of people's just not putting the right jack plate on their boat to balance their boat and what you have. So you call up, so you got six inch and you did, you did this, you did this, but there's a huge gap in between. But how you got to the 12-inch isn't the right way because you really don't know what balanced your boat and you need to figure out where your balancing point is. Your boat Get that balanced because your boat's going to ride on the tip of the balance point. So if you have an 8-degree hull and your boat is running, the balancing point is the tip of the deepest part of your hull, which is 8 degrees. It's going to run on a triangle of water. So the triangle of the water is going to be the tip of the balancing point. Point is in front of your feet, or six inches in front of your feet, then your boat will.

Speaker 5 1:24:47

Your motor will never pick up that distance between that and your transom because it'd be in the mid air. There's nothing to hold your boat up and the only way to change the point of the bouncing point is to have the proper weight behind the transom and you can't achieve that by adding. You can't achieve that by adding weight or setback, because you're only using counterweight of the motor at that point. Does that make sense? Yes, sir, so it's only 9 inches per inch. You go back on counterweight. So if you go back 9 inches, 10 inches, there's only 90 pounds of counterweight. Well, the front of your boat weighs way more than 90 pounds. So you go ahead to add weight to the transom plus your motor.

Speaker 5 1:25:31

Yeah, if that makes sense to you. So you got to get your boat rocking just right in the water. Then you got to put the prop to it, you got to put the power to it and the 70 is going to run a big prop anyway. So you got plenty of blade surface to run your boat. You just gotta get the counterweight just right and that's your problem. So going from 6 to 12 doesn't tell us anything. It doesn't tell you anything because you're still getting poor performance. It's just the weight, it's just your boat still ain't balanced because there's too much of a gap. So so basically, what I'm trying to say by you adding four inches of setback to your six inches, to say, by you adding four inches of setback to your six inches of just spacers or homemade lightweight material didn't do nothing for you because you didn't get your 10 inches the right way and all

Speaker 4 1:26:14

and and also when you did it that way whenever you built something or uh customized the adapter to make it work. There's really no telling where your uh transom angle is. That's right.

Speaker 5 1:26:28

It's two uh cmc breakaways mounted together well, that's even worse too, because those things move too much.

Speaker 4 1:26:35

Yeah, that's a lot of movement.

Speaker 5 1:26:36

And another thing too when you have that much setback, when you get off your throttle, that water pushes your prop and your prop is never set in stone, it's never set still. You know what I'm saying. If that prop isn't set still and holding that water pressure on your prop, it doesn't hold your boat up. So, for an example, we had a customer in South Carolina one time had a Gen 2. He had a 115 Mercury on the boat, ran like crap, ran like crap, porpoise, porpoise, porpoise, porpoise, porpoise, ran like crap.

Speaker 5 1:27:06

Me and B Scott gets in a truck. We haul ass all the way to South Carolina. We're like dude, this is terrible. What is wrong with this boat? Right? So we get in this boat. And then we get B Scott in the boat. Well, how we races and all that stuff, well, he knows how to drive a boat. He about wrecked it twice. What's going on? And so I tell the dealer I said man, I'm sorry. I told the customer I don't know what's wrong with the boat. I said we're going to get the boat, we're going to come back to the boat plant, we're going to check her out, right? So we get the boat back to the boat plant, we balance it out and everything. I said man, it's about nine inches in front of the box, it should be there. I said what's causing this thing? And we run it, and we run it and it's still. We tried so many different things.

Speaker 1 1:27:52

We tried everything, yeah.

Speaker 5 1:27:53

We tried everything, I said what in the world is causing this crap, this big? We found out that whenever we're running across the water and that motor was moving solid motor mounts versus unsolid motor mounts, right, and the motor moves so much. Well, on the tiller handle it's way worse. So what we found out is that when we pin that jack plate, when we pin the jack plate, she held the nose up and ran. Good, that's the only difference it was. And what happened was when that boat was going over chop and water and everything and that prop was dropping. When that prop was running, it Barely moving. Barely moving, you'd get off the throttle, get back on the throttle, get off the throttle, get on the throttle. That solid backbone wasn't there and that jack plate was moving at least a quarter of an inch.

Speaker 5 1:28:42

It was dropping the nose of the boat and we could never keep the boat on the pad. So we're losing his grip. It was losing his grip, so what we did was we took the uh, the breakaway off, which I'm not a fan of the breakaway. Unless you're hunting flooded timber, get the hell away from the breakaway yeah get away from it if you're not hunting flooded timber. Don't run a breakaway unless you absolutely have to have it right.

Speaker 5 1:29:05

Yeah, that's all the running I know, yeah, well, if that's the case I mean, if you want to go out and float the nose and play with the bow and set it up and perform it, just like a lot of people do in the summertime the best thing to do is figure out a way to pin or jack plate. Okay, because that's going to give you the best performance out of your prop is a pin or jack plate. But long story short, I know I'm long-winded here, but the fixed customer's boat. All we had to do was pin it and it stopped it. And it was that easy.

Speaker 1 1:29:37

Totally different boat when you pinned it.

Speaker 5 1:29:39

Yeah, and we tell people that all the time they're like that's bullshit, it's not going to work, it's because of the lower unit, and we tell people that all the time they're like that's bullshit.

Speaker 1 1:29:45

It's not going to work. It's because of the lower unit. You know, it's just so big, catches so much water and pressure that I mean any time that you're hitting chop or waves or anything, it just changes it to the slightest amount. I mean what causes it to slam down and hop and do all kinds of crap?

Speaker 5 1:29:59

Well, you get back to solid motor mounts and solid motor mounts. Why don't they put solid motor mounts on motors, yeah, well, yeah, I don't know why we want to do that yeah, I mean, why is that?

Speaker 1 1:30:08

why is that a deal?

Speaker 4 1:30:10

I know why we did it racing. Why? Why, for when you hit it, there's no give, it just goes yeah, but why though?

Speaker 5 1:30:16

but why is it give? I mean, you don't want to give right, you want, you want to prompt, to stay connected you got to keep vibration, keep it.

Speaker 4 1:30:22

You want to prompt, to stay connected to the water.

Speaker 5 1:30:24

So that's what the solid motor mounts are for, and that's kind of what these breakaway jack plates are doing to all these people and he has two, technically two, two breakaways I would almost say that's definitely a lot of the problem yeah, so that's what I would do. That's what I would do, man, the main reason that I did.

Speaker 4 1:30:40

It was. So we've had a, we had had a 19RDB, and then we've had two 22s DVSTs and I was trying to try it out, for mainly because of the cutback, and I understand it's different, the whole design's different, the cutout's different, everything else Right. So I was trying to try to, I guess, homemade, just to try it to see, and I just haven't switched it back yet to try.

Speaker 5 1:31:09

Yeah, I would definitely switch it back. The RDB is going to give you a lot higher dead rise, so you're going to be able to tilt the bow and pick up top end speed more than you will an 8-degree hull. Pick up top end speed more than you will an 8-degree hole. The only way an 8-degree hole will actually float to nose and have fun with a float to nose kind of deal is you're going to have to bury the stern in the water just a little bit and you see it all over TikTok right now. You see everybody riding these big waves of water and their stern and their boat is six inches below the water.

Speaker 4 1:31:43

Yeah, that's not fast. No, that's not water. Yeah, that's not fast. No, that's not fast, it's not fast.

Speaker 5 1:31:47

It's not fast and they can hold a nine-degree turn on the plug, they say. But they don't tell everybody their plug is six inches under the water, so they're not really on the plug, they're burying their plug. It should be like turning your boat burying the plug.

Speaker 4 1:32:03

Right. So my biggest thing is I've never tried to set my boat up for just me. I know what it would run just me with 12 inches of setback On the big end. It does run better because at that point it takes a bigger gear prop, a bigger pitch prop, all that stuff and eventually I can get there. But that's not what I'm after. I'm after two people hunt, load fast as I can get it how I need it out the hole big in at the same time, which you can't have. That but you can. You can have somewhat of a medium and that's mainly what I'm looking for. But I just don't quite know where to how to get there Go with an 8-inch Gen 3, 8-inch Bob's or just a standard 8-inch jack plate.

Speaker 4 1:32:55

Or just a heavy one-piece yes, one-piece solid unit, yeah, but he's hunting loads, so he'll have to have a breakaway. Well, if that's the case, I mean a.

Speaker 5 1:33:01

Circle S builds a good breakaway. 8-inch manual jack plate.

Speaker 5 1:33:08

Yeah, they do it's pretty heavy and you know it's around 47 pounds, you know. And then move your batteries. You need to balance your boat. Figure out where your balance point is on your boat, right. Figure that out and move your batteries as far back as you can and that's where you're going to be. But you want to stay away from adding setback on top of setback on top of setback, even if you try, like a lot of people think that. Like a lot of people think setback is the key, but it's actually the weight on the transom is the key and people experiment with multiple setbacks. But in your case you have multiple moving parts of setbacks, which makes it even worse and it discourages you because you don't know which way to go.

Speaker 4 1:33:53

I can only imagine the frustration.

Four-Stroke vs. Two-Stroke Performance

Speaker 5 1:33:57

So get with Circle S. They got a good heavy-duty, 8-inch breakaway jack plate. You can run. That's a good option for you. You can go with a Vance or a Bob's and Bob's makes. These adapters are solid aluminum. That is way better than C-Channel or anything else you can buy. You want something solid and you can add that to your motor side, not on your transom side. You don't want to ever add extensions on the transom between your setback, because when the motor goes down basically you know what I'm talking about when you hole shot it, that water's coming off of the bottom of your boat and it's hitting the edge of your jack plate.

Speaker 5 1:34:42

So you want the shorter amount of setback further out towards your motor Yep Right See what. I'm saying so you can do that as well.

Speaker 4 1:34:54

That's kind of what I figured would happen. So much back there for one, the moving parts, and for two, the water spring obviously on the cavitation plate. Because I mean, once you set back so far, obviously the rule of thumb is for every inch back, every inch back, you go up. What a quarter of an inch? That's right? Yes, sir, right. So I mean I kind of paid attention to it and seeing that the water was actually hitting the cavitation plate, so obviously it's picking the back of the boat up naturally, yeah, just from the spray, yeah, just from the spray?

Speaker 5 1:35:25

Yep, it picks up naturally. Then what your biggest problem is getting the counterweight to lift your bowel abuse a little bit, right. So do you think eight inches is about where I need to be? I'm a fan of eight inches on everything.

Speaker 5 1:35:38

I wish I had everything, eight inches personally but eight inches, eight inches, yeah, eight inches is better on there, just personally. But you know, eight inches, eight inches, yeah, eight inches is better on there. Just about anything you can run. Unless you're running, uh arcs off the timber and you need to keep the boat flat, you know, and that's, that's a little different, that's a little different situation. But, um, eight inches is good on pretty much everything. Uh, based off of uh four stroke motor weights and what they're building nowadays, um, if you go two-stroke you get a little more power, you can overcome the weight of the motor.

Speaker 5 1:36:09

But eight inches is a good rule of thumb. I'm a big fan of the Gen 3s. I'm a big fan of Bob's the weight of their jack plates.

Speaker 1 1:36:17

A good solid heavy jack plate man.

Speaker 5 1:36:21

And if you want something, manual Circle s builds a good badass, one of the best jack plates you can buy for a manual jack plate. It's a rapid jack. I don't know if you're familiar with rapid jacks, but they're super awesome jack plates.

Speaker 4 1:36:34

If you don't want to go the hydraulic route, that's who I would go with no, I mean, I've seen 10 inches, haven't seen 12, and I don't see a lot of 8s. That's mainly why I was asking.

Speaker 1 1:36:46

Yeah yeah. I like 8s. Well, you know there's a lot of people that'll do just like you did. You know they'll put stuff together. They might have a 6-inch, they might put 4-inch spacer plates on and you know, in some situations you can get away with that. But you know, like, like dad's saying, you know the weight and the inches of setback together is what makes it work. You know you gotta have.

Speaker 4 1:37:11

You know, like, like you said earlier, you have to have girth and length you know, you can't just have wings, man, all right, I mean, if you're doing it all with racing, I mean just for I, I said I, I set up my stuff. For any of my buddies that that's asked for help, it's always been to try to set up for a hunt load, not to race. You know, I mean we don't. We don't really have a lot of those races down here. Besides I think there was one the other week, but for the most part I mean we don't. It's mainly on the river.

Speaker 5 1:37:44

Uh, uh, mean, we don't, it's mainly on the river Once we get off here. If you have some time, get on Bob's website. I want you to look at something. I want you to look at their action hydro, their jack plates, their hydraulic jack plates. Then also look back. Also look at their Gen 3 jack plates, okay, and compare the size, the weights of those jack plates. Okay, and compare the size, the weights of those jack plates and, yes, the Gen 3, look at the Gen 3 jack plates and also look at their standard hydraulic jack plates. And I want you to compare the Gen 3s with the action jack plates, the weight difference between a 10-inch and a 10-inch and an 8-inch and an 8-inch and a 4 and a 4 or 6 or a 6. And that will tell you a lot about that.

Speaker 5 1:38:27

A lot of people think that the weight of the Gen 3 is because it's a four-beater horsepower motor, but in our case it's counterweight. Okay, so you could almost get away with a smaller setback with the Gen 3, as you could with a longer setback with the standard action jack. You know, whatever you want to call it, bobs, and so that gen 3 would give you a better whole shot with a smaller jack plate and also give you the same effect. But but definitely check into that and a lot of people's not understanding that and they're not seeing it, because advanced kicking jack weighs 49.5 and, uh, you know, bob's uh, bob's six inch kicking jack weighs 49, so they're a half a pound within each other. But that's not your ticket. You know you're wanting to be up there in the 70 80 pounds on your transom, uh, and that's going to get you where you need to be. So, and do all that, check it out, get your boat balanced.

Speaker 1 1:39:34

Yeah, if you have any questions, man just holler back at us.

Speaker 2 1:39:35

Text us, holler us.

Speaker 5 1:39:36

Whatever I appreciate it, I hope we helped you out, man. Yes, sir, man.

Speaker 1 1:39:39

Thank you. All right, buddy, have a good one. Thank you, bye, bye. Thank you all right, buddy, have a good one. Thank you bye. We know like you. You know, in that situation in my mind, for a hunt load which I don't know, he might I guess he might be could be hunting a little bit different, but with a 553 dbst, with a 70 on it, it's gonna with a 12 inches. To me that seems crazy, because that four strokes heavy. You know that's a heavy motor.

Speaker 5 1:40:08

That's why I need to get on there and look, because I mean, that's what a lot of people don't understand. I mean you get on there. A lot of people I'm telling what I'm seeing on the internet. What I'm thinking on the internet is people think setback, setback, setbacks the key, but they don't understand why it's the key yeah, well, you know they don't understand that I mean you've raced for years with two inches setback two inches yeah no girth, you know no.

Speaker 1 1:40:30

All right, so two inches no girth we talked about skinny we're talking about skinny two inches here we got away with it with just power. We got a lot of power to the motor, you know, and even though the motor wasn't very heavy, we still had a lot of power. Yeah, so, with this situation, that 70 yamaha on a 1553 it's.

Speaker 5 1:40:55

I don't, I don't really agree. That's the best setup I don't think it's rest but I mean it is doable but that, but that's a lot of butt on that motor.

Speaker 3 1:41:05

It's a lot of weight hanging off of that. You really don't know, though you really don't. I mean I guess you don't.

Speaker 5 1:41:09

The 70 is a lighter motor than most of them. But you really don't know, because you really got to figure out where the bounce point of the boat is. We can sit here and guess all day long and what our advice is is based off of our experiences. Yeah, but we really don't know. I mean we would never put a 70 on a 553, so we don't have the data to back it up. So I don't know where the balance point of that boat is. I would say it's since the motor's lighter than most. It's about normal. You know the prop selection for that motor's going to be least. It's not going to be as much as a 59 cubic inch motor or the.

Speaker 4 1:41:42

Tazis, right, it's not going to be as much as a 59 cubic inch motor or the right two. So right, if you remember right, your uh banker had a 553 or 556, one of the two, with a 70 yamaha. Yeah, I absolutely hated that boat. Yeah, I hate that same scenario and

Speaker 5 1:41:54

and what we end up doing. We end up giving uh a beginner 1860 with a 70 yamaha and absolutely loves the boat yeah you know, um, it's almost like with that lower unit.

Speaker 1 1:42:06

You know it's like power to weight, got big gears. Yeah, power to weight. It's just an unhappy package you can make it happy.

Speaker 3 1:42:14

I think it goes back to what you're saying earlier, that a lot of people don't realize a big boat is not a slow boat yeah, right sometimes a big boat is the boat to go with. Well, you know and and exactly right.

Speaker 5 1:42:23

The more we dig into this, more we see this, we see that, uh, people think small is fast yeah it's not the case.

Speaker 1 1:42:29

No, it's not the case people think light is fast too, and it's not the case either it all depends on balance and setup if a heavy boat.

Speaker 5 1:42:39

If, if a heavy boat set up right, with the right prop and it's balanced right, it's gonna be just as fast as a light boat. Now, a light boat's set up right, with the right prop and it's balanced right, it's going to be just as fast as a light boat. Now, a light boat might get there faster, quicker, quicker, but at the top end it's going to be.

Speaker 1 1:42:53

I mean it's there and I will say in certain situations you take a 550. Say we had a 550.

Speaker 5 1:42:59

I'm talking about a production heavy boat, okay. Let's talk about the damn 200 pound 660 drag boat. I'm talking about a normal right, you're right day boat. Yes, okay, before all our people get on there say that's bullshit I ain't talking about that damn 150 pound yeah, heavier boat would have been.

Speaker 3 1:43:17

A heavier boat would have been nice, uh, last saturday at the races I mean, yeah, stuff that was going on there.

Speaker 5 1:43:22

Yeah, you run a 600 pound, you run six 700 pound race, but you will beat everybody oh yeah. Yeah, I don't know about last saturday, but yes, on good water yeah, yeah, good water, yeah, I mean, yeah, I want that you, you want to throw that boat cutting water, you know, pushing through it.

Speaker 4 1:43:40

It's bouncing all over the place, you know you gotta have the girth and you gotta have the throat. You gotta have the girth and the throat good lord make

Speaker 2 1:43:48

a happy boat now we got girth length and throat you gotta have all three and a happy boat.

Speaker 5 1:43:53

Yeah, what the fuck was that dude?

Speaker 1 1:44:01

hey, what's going on? You're on off the clock with b scott. I got daryl moore, mich Michael Shockley and Tim Scott with me. Who are you and where are you calling from?

Speaker 4 1:44:09

I'm calling from Benton.

Speaker 1 1:44:11

Oh dude, what's going on, man.

Speaker 4 1:44:14

Not a whole lot, man. I pretty much got set up figured out, but what I see a lot of is people with their trailers set up wrong.

Speaker 5 1:44:25

All right, let's talk about the trailer.

Speaker 4 1:44:27

That's a good subject.

Speaker 5 1:44:28

That is a good subject. Yeah, a damn good subject.

Speaker 4 1:44:31

I see bunks, you know, up under the boat.

Speaker 5 1:44:37

You're talking about the edge of the bunk too far inside the boat.

Speaker 4 1:44:42

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, or the front of the boat not touching the bumps? Yes, bouncing down the road. Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:44:49

Or you see bow eyes on top of the rollers.

Speaker 5 1:44:53

Well, this is a really good subject to talk about. I feel like I have the shot at me. Let's talk about the wishbone of the trailer, Brandon, and how it? Flexes and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 1:45:03

Yeah, man, trailers are super important. Uh, and a lot of times you see people you know they'll have their boat set up on the trailer and, like the runners, won't be flat on a space in between the keels, it might be kicked up on a keel or they might be on the very outside of the boat or your hands got the front end picked up a little bit yeah, I mean I'm pulling down on the bow eye and ripping the bow eye out, yep, so the trailer is supposed to fit the boat like a glove, as in.

Speaker 1 1:45:32

The boat's not being cranked down in the front, it's not being picked up off the bunks in the front, you know the bow stand needs to be the proper height, you know, so that whenever the boat is up on the trailer, the whole running surface of the boat, the flat part of the boat, is touching the flat part of the board. You know all the way up and down it. So what's?

Speaker 5 1:45:53

your problem with your trailer. No boat's hanging off the back. You just want us to talk about the subject, or you got an issue or what. What's going on?

Speaker 4 1:46:01

No, I don't have an issue. I have before. But you know, I had to learn the hard way and I just hate seeing people having to learn the hard way. I understand yeah. We might put that information out there.

Speaker 5 1:46:15

You know, a lot of people don't realize that the trailer is the backbone of the, the boat is the backbone of the trailer, oh yeah.

Speaker 4 1:46:23

Trailers are actually weak until the boat's on right.

Speaker 5 1:46:27

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of situations where I've seen where it cracked transoms and cracked brakes because they got the uh, they got the boat strapped down with turnbuckles you know those trap buckles, where you call them and the trailer's flexing all over the place and when the trailer flexes it just puts that boat in the bind and it cracks the boat out. You know, I feel like go ahead I feel like.

Speaker 4 1:46:50

I feel like it's a lot easier to tear one up on the trailer than it is the woods.

Speaker 1 1:46:55

I agree with you on that and a lot of boats on the off of a trailer before I mean not only, but like we have a book video on Havoc YouTube that we kind of showed the proper setup of a trailer. But a lot of times you know you'll see a guy that might have a really flimsy trailer and, like you know, during duck season you're hauling ass down these dirt roads and your boat's bouncing or your trailer's bouncing or your wheel's coming off the ground and, like you said, you know, that's where I feel like most boats get damaged. Oh yeah, jumping medians. Yeah, I mean, without a doubt, who does that?

Speaker 5 1:47:33

I, I agree, I agree. I mean I mean a lot of the damage, the what, the what. You know when I tell people when they have an issue with a boat, no matter what brand it is, because they all bust up here and there, but you know that's not going to bust up sitting in the yard, that's right. So it either busts up on the road or busts up on the water.

Speaker 1 1:47:53

Yeah.

Speaker 5 1:47:54

And you've got to figure out where the trouble's coming from, and the majority of it is the trailer. Yep.

Speaker 3 1:48:00

Yep.

Speaker 5 1:48:00

You know the trailer, these trailer companies build these boats, these boat trailers, with the axle in the wrong spot. There's too much tongue weight, too less tongue weight. I mean, you see it all the time, you see it all the time and it's a battle. Some trailers got little rollers on the back, some doesn't. You see boats without transom savers. Some have it. Some trailers don't even have a spot for the transom saver.

Speaker 5 1:48:25

No it's ridiculous, I mean it is crazy and you know what's crazy about especially an Arkansas duck hunter especially an Arkansas duck hunter or South Carolina duck hunters are really bad too is they buy a really, really, really nice boat, but they buy the cheapest trailer out there.

Speaker 4 1:48:42

Especially in South Carolina.

Speaker 5 1:48:44

Yeah, south Carolina, yep, but they buy the cheapest trailer out there especially in south carolina, yeah, south carolina, yeah, yeah and uh, you know b scott had a mod 40 to.

Speaker 5 1:48:49

You know his race boat and you know it cracked out a couple times, right, and we're like, why is it cracking out? The snow should be cracking out, right. And so we went back and said, okay, let's, let's, let's order, let's build a really heavy duty torsion axle trailer. And the trailer was super heavy, had torsion axles on it and it was pulled like a dream. It was balanced right, it pulled really good, it was a super heavy trailer and our boat never cracked out again. Yeah, that was last time, correct.

Speaker 1 1:49:17

Last time it cracked and it was because the trailer wasn't flexing yep, I'll tell you what a good way to check your trailer is like whenever your boat is in the water and you go back. You go grab your truck and trailer, pull it, jump on your wishbone of your boat on one side. You will see how much your trailer will actually flex, unhook the bowline.

Speaker 5 1:49:38

With no boat on your trailer, unhook the bowline and jump on your wishbone.

Speaker 1 1:49:49

Then hook your bowline and jump on your wishbone. Oh then hook your bow up, then jump on your wishbone and tell me that that boat don't put strength in your trailer. Yeah, oh yeah, it does 100.

Speaker 4 1:49:52

It is insane the amount of flex these trailers have.

Trailer Setup and Importance

Speaker 5 1:49:53

I'm always talking to people about how important it is for your boat to fit your trailer right yeah nine out of ten times when a warranty repair comes to the boat plant, the first thing we look at is the trailer.

Speaker 1 1:50:02

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 5 1:50:03

And the trailer tells the story.

Speaker 4 1:50:05

It does 100%. You get out there, out east, they got some.

Speaker 5 1:50:12

I mean, I don't know where they found some, you just got back from out east getting a warranty bow and the bow got back here and the trailer was homemade.

Speaker 4 1:50:21

It looked homemade. I don't know if it was no it was homemade.

Speaker 5 1:50:24

It was homemade. It looked homemade. I don't know if it was. No, it was homemade.

Speaker 1 1:50:28

It was definitely homemade and the trailer itself was cracked.

Speaker 5 1:50:29

Yeah, the trailer was cracked. We got in trouble because the boat was cracked, but this old trailer was cracked.

Speaker 4 1:50:33

Yeah, I pull up like dang, I got to pull this thing back.

Speaker 5 1:50:35

10 hours he yelled at me because his boat was cracked, but then I got to yell at him because his trailer was cracked. I'm, I'm like back at you bubba.

Speaker 1 1:50:43

Yeah, I mean, it goes hand in hand. Man like you gotta think. You have an aluminum boat that's tied down in at least three spots on the trailer. If we're going down the highway and that trailer, if it didn't have a boat on it, would flex, it's trying to do that. Still, the boat itself being tied to that trailer in the three spots that it is is the structure in the backbone behind the trailer that keeps it square. Oh, yeah, yeah. So you got, you got to think that trailer's trying to do this on all them bumps and stuff. You're going down them dirt roads and your trailer would if your boat wasn't tied to it. Well, if your boat's tied to it, where's the, where's the wear on the boat at? Well, I tell you where it's at. It's at, it's on the rakes. Yep, it's on the four corners of the boat.

Speaker 5 1:51:27

It's on the transom, it's on the motor, it's on the transom itself, and I don't give a shit what you say. Those leaf springs don't take all the experience.

Speaker 1 1:51:39

They don't, man. I'll tell you one thing Going to the racesite, you know, all weekend long, I remember, on a regular trailer with springs on it, my ass would be so sore and my back would hurt at the end of the weekend. But when we got the torsion axle trailer, man, it was a dream man. It rode back there. I could sit back there in the boat and ride all the way back to the tent.

Speaker 5 1:52:00

You done got us fired up on these damn trailers, man way back to the tent.

Speaker 4 1:52:08

You don't got us fired up on these damn trailers, man. Well, I feel like I see so many on like marketplace that are for sale and the bunks are like up under the boat. And one guy was like I don't know how to get this rdb to lift and I mean I feel like he had a quarter mercury and six as a kicking jack. I feel like that was plenty.

Speaker 5 1:52:26

Yeah, it just depends, though you never know. I mean, you never know.

Speaker 4 1:52:30

I probably don't put a hook under it. That's another thing too. That's what.

Speaker 1 1:52:32

I'm saying that's another thing too. You never know If the back of your boat, like where the transom meets the bottom right, Say it's like this where the transom meets the bottom, If it's hanging off the end of the bunks, you've got to think it has to be beaten right there on the bottom of the boat where the transom's right here the only way it can move is in over time. So you see people beating hooks into their boats on the trailer all the time.

Speaker 5 1:53:03

I guess they might not know that or maybe their trailer's too short, not the right size I think, whatever it is, I think the people's concept is just buy a boat by the cheapest trailer, who cares, as long as it's moving and set up.

Speaker 4 1:53:13

They'll leave set up out.

Speaker 1 1:53:14

They'll buy the cheapest setup too, and then why don't it run cheap jack, play cheap trailer? It's all the same thing. You're gonna get the results that you pay for.

Speaker 4 1:53:23

See, I'm a completely opposite man Like if I'm going to mop the floor, I'm buying the best damn mop I can find.

Speaker 5 1:53:30

You know I don't want no shitty mop. You know what I'm saying Less drugs is, better man. It is. But you know, we see it all the time. We see it all the time. I'm glad we got able to call you back and talk about trailers. Absolutely, you're right. Some people don't think about the trailers. I know we do, because we have like $4,000 trailers to haul our race boats around, because we don't want to weld them up all the time, and it's not, you know. I mean you don't haul hay on a shitty trailer. You know what I'm saying. I mean most log trucks, you see, you run down the road their trailers are like shit, yeah.

Speaker 4 1:54:07

And the logs of the structure behind them too.

Speaker 5 1:54:09

Yeah, without logs and things are all over the place, you know. So it makes a lot of sense. I think a lot of people don't don't understand that how a trailer actually works and for people watching this.

Speaker 1 1:54:19

We have a walk through video on trailers on the happy boat youtube Boat. Youtube yeah, so it's on one of the Havoc Boat's how-tos. It's a great video. It kind of shows you. It's not real super crazy in depth, but it shows you the basics of what you need to have with your trailer.

Speaker 5 1:54:35

I think the most important thing is get your boat on the trailer, make sure it's flat on the bunks and adjust your bow stand to your bow eye where it keeps a little bit of pressure on, not only that.

Speaker 1 1:54:43

But when you're loading the boat, all right, how many people roll up and just smash their, their bow, stand with the, with the front of their boat. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'll see. You see it all the time. Those about their seat when they hit it. Oh yeah, I mean man. I mean, if your boat is properly, if your trailer is set up properly, you won't run into that kind of problem.

Speaker 1 1:55:03

Yeah, it's all on setup guys, trailer and boats and everything man, make your whole life easier if you just set it up so you're from benton, arkansas?

Speaker 5 1:55:10

yes, sir, it's cool man, that's cool. Well, we ain't too far from you no, not at all.

Speaker 4 1:55:16

Uh well, this past weekend I drove past y'all's factory cool yeah, uh, just what are you doing down here? I went to the same, or oh I had to leave early, I had to.

Speaker 1 1:55:32

I had to have a dog put down, but sorry about that yeah, sad, that's a what now I tell you, as that's one thing that sucks worse than sucky trailers and set up Dogs don't live long enough. No, they don't. They don't live long enough, man Well, I appreciate you calling man. You brought something up we hadn't thought about today, and that kind of stuff out there will help a lot of people.

Speaker 4 1:55:57

Yeah, it's a good subject.

Speaker 1 1:55:59

And I think that's going to wrap it up for us today. Actually, You're up to our last call. Yeah, we thought we'd call you back. Try to get you on the phone and see what you have. Man, I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 1:56:10

Me too. Y'all have a good one.

Speaker 1 1:56:11

You too, man. Have a good day Later. All right, you know, that's something we ain't thought about, you know. It ain't I mean it's something, but it's important.

Speaker 5 1:56:21

Nobody ever, no one ever.

Speaker 1 1:56:23

And a lot of people don't ask questions about that, they just assume it's okay. It's not, I guess, an important part, you know, to the boat, something that probably gets slept on, but it is, but it is.

Speaker 3 1:56:32

It's a very important part.

Speaker 4 1:56:40

It's one of the most important parts, I mean if they don't rough.

Speaker 5 1:56:42

it can be if you don't think it's important, try to build a house on a shitty slab. You know a shitty foundation. I mean you're not gonna build a not yet two hundred thousand dollar, three hundred thousand, our house on a shitty ass foundation, huh right, so it makes a big difference it does, man, why, guys?

Speaker 1 1:56:57

I think we're about out of time. That wraps it up. Uh, guys, if we weren't able to call you back or we couldn't get you on the phone, man, sorry about that. We have a lot of people calling at the same time. We try to do our best to get everybody taken care of, but when you see this video, drop a comment. We'll try to hit you up and get your phone number so we can call you on the next one. It's something we're going to try to do a lot of. Do it more.

Speaker 5 1:57:29

I would say we're here to help, but we always have been, so yeah, I think we should do this stuff more often. I don't think you see a lot of podcasts like this.

Speaker 1 1:57:32

No, we're gonna try to make it a regular thing. So, guys, we couldn't get you on this one. We're gonna try our best to get you on the next one and really be honest we.

Speaker 4 1:57:39

It educates us too, it does I think we should start taking more notes and keeping up with who's who and do a podcast of calling people back, checking on Follow-ups. That's good idea, Shockley, you know we're always learning too.

Speaker 5 1:57:53

We can always learn something. Yeah, you know, just because we build the bus will mean we're too good to learn something. So we you know, we have customers that teach us stuff all the time, prop selection setups and everything else. I mean they might be doing something we're not doing or we didn't try, and so you know. So podcasts like this really helps everybody and we're not.

Speaker 3 1:58:10

We're not afraid of criticism either I mean if you guys have something to say and they should think when two people can call and tell them why they think their boat's the best, whatever boat it is. Yeah, that'd be interesting, like tell us like.

Speaker 1 1:58:21

If you guys like to see people calling in saying they're making model what they got and why they think it's the best.

Speaker 5 1:58:27

I'd like to hear that.

Speaker 3 1:58:28

Me too. I mean, I feel like a lot of people want to know that It'd be a good podcast because like it educates. You know I'd be like. Why'd you pick it? Why do you think it's the best?

Speaker 1 1:58:38

And then we'd tell you know, whatever I would love, I think that would be a good one.

Speaker 3 1:58:41

Let people call us and tell us why.

Speaker 5 1:58:42

It don't matter what brand boat you drive, whatever call in.

Speaker 3 1:58:45

Call in, tell us why. Tell us why you like it.

Speaker 5 1:58:46

Let's talk about it, and if you drive something that we don't build, we'll help you fix your boat.

Speaker 4 1:58:50

Yeah, I talk to customers every week, that's hey. I listen to your podcast. I have a blanket, blanket boat. I think it'd just a custom boat.

Speaker 5 1:59:05

It won't run right, so we was able to help him. Unless you want to get past 60, 70 miles an hour, that's where Havoc really shines on certain models. That's kind of what we specialize in. The MSTC is a durable boat. It's a badass boat. You, the MSTC, is a durable boat. It's a badass boat. It gets RDBs and marsh runners. We definitely specialize in certain things in the industry, but overall, though, boats really work the same.

Speaker 1 1:59:36

Yeah, it's the same physics that go into it. It doesn't matter if it's bass boats we're talking about or if it's two-handle boats. I mean, you're always going to have water, you're going to have power and you're going to have balance. You've got to find a happy medium between all of them. And it doesn't matter what brand it is. It doesn't matter. If you don't have a Havoc and you have questions about getting a Havoc or you don't want a Havoc, whatever it may be, just call us and he'll tell us about it.

Speaker 5 1:59:55

Edge Ambush Excel Express. We don. We all love them. That's right.

Closing Thoughts and Future Episodes

Speaker 1 2:00:01

Give us a call, reach out and we'll be glad to help Guys, if you like this and you want to see more of this, you want to see this in a little bit different way, let us know in the comments. Don't forget to check out the Gear Shop too. Tons of merch, tons of props. We've got jack plates on there. We've got a little bit of everything, man, other than that we'll.