Rewriting the Narrative around Separation with Jillian Grover

When the paths of love and partnership take unexpected turns, how do we find our way? Join me on a heartfelt exploration with my dear friend and repeat guest, Jillian Grover, as we share our own divorce and separation stories that challenge the usual narratives. This conversation is a balm for those seeking solace in times of uncertainty, separation or change. Jillian and I emphasize the importance of therapy, friendships, and maintaining respect and love, regardless of how the relationship has changed.

This episode isn't just about the end of relationships but about the beginning of self-discovery and trust. If you’re questioning whether to hold on or to let go, or how to honor the voice within you that whispers of new horizons, this episode wraps its arms around these topics with grace and trust.

In this episode, we discuss:
- the stories of our separations and divorces
- challenging the stereotypes around divorce
- how to trust your own inner guidance
- the Enneagram, Human Design and Astrology
- support and championing your people

Guest Bio:

Jillian is the CEO of Jillian Grover Podcast Solutions, a podcast agency that helps women entrepreneurs use the power of their voices to inspire others by helping them manage their podcasts with ease. Jillian prides herself on being proficient and conquering any task she is given. She loves being a cheerleader for women entrepreneurs and watching them change lives!

Connect with Jillian: https://www.jilliangrover.com/
Follow Jillian on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilliangroverpodcastsolutions/

This episode was produced by: Six-Two Studio

Mari Roberts is an Energy Healer, Psychic Guide, and Lifestyle Mentor with over 15 years of experience in the corporate and non-profit world. She helps high-achieving women rise above the grind, find deeper meaning, and live into their most fulfilling life possible. Through energy healing, coaching and private mentorship, Mari places focus on healthy activations that welcome more balance and joy.

Resources:
Life Activated Course
Radiant Life Program
Community Energy Healing

Find Mari:
Website - marirobertslife.com
Instagram - @marirobertslife
Linked In - @mariroberts

Transcript

Mari Roberts:

0:02

You deserve to have the life that you desire. Your passions are a part of you for a reason, and when you don't follow your passions or listen to your call, things can get rough. You don't have to take some massive, intimidating leap. One small step each day leads to lasting change. So let's get started by accepting our passions are here in the first place, because this is life activated. I'm your host and guide, Mari, here to help you recenter life on your passions and purpose, so you can feel good inside because you deserve it.

Mari Roberts:

0:45

Hello everyone, this episode of Life Activated is going to be a conversation with one of my favorite humans, who you will meet in a moment, but we're going to talk a little bit more about the update I gave you around divorce and separation and both of us sharing about our journey and you know I'm giving so much away, but one of the things that we wanted to discuss and share was how divorce can be, not what you think it's going to be. So, without going into the details, I want to first dive in by having my favorite human and I know I realize I say this a lot, but if you're on my podcast, if you are on Life Activated, it's because you are a favorite human of mine and you have something to share with the community that is important. So, Jillian, if you could introduce yourself and tell us who you are, what you do and, of course you know, share a little bit more of the details, Human Design or Enneagram, any other way that people can get to know you and relate to you.

Jillian Grover:

2:04

Sure, of course, and of course you are one of my favorite humans too. You are so magical. I just love chatting with you. I'm Jillian. I am a podcast manager, I own Jillian Grover Podcast Solutions and I help people sound amazing on their podcasts so they can get their message out. I live in upstate New York, I have three kids and I am straight fire. I am a sun Aries, a moon Sagittarius and a rising Leo.

Mari Roberts:

2:33

Yeah.

Jillian Grover:

2:34

Straight fire, Enneagram one. I'm a generator in Human Design, so I'm a little bit of a control freak, but I've embraced it. I'm proud to be a control freak.

Mari Roberts:

2:52

I love this and I think I feel like I don't remember this. So Jillian's a two-timer on the podcast. Yeah, actually, I think you were my first two-timer. Oh, that's amazing. So one of the things that we have in common, we both are Leo rising. I don't know that. I realized that we were both Leo rising from the last time. So I think that's pretty interesting actually, and what I find interesting, you know, when, something that I've been trying to embrace and learn about a little bit is, you know, our Leo rising is also. Oh, that's not what I wanted to say. Actually, I lied to you. That's not what it is. I was thinking about our North Node and South Node, anyway, but, leo, I think Leo rising is an interesting element because it's also how people are seeing us right, so I just think that's interesting.

Mari Roberts:

3:40

Okay, I pulled a card for us, not from the normal deck. I pulled a card from a deck that I normally use, just for me. It is Rebecca Campbell. It is the Rose Oracle. I actually work with Rose Energy. I don't ever really talk about it and I'll say that actually, I don't want to say anything about it. I work with Rose Energy. Leave it at that. I work with Rose energy.

Mari Roberts:

4:05

And the card I pulled beforehand is sub Rosa, hidden in plain sight mysteries, learning and teaching. So I'll show the card to you. It's a really beautiful card. Rebecca Campbell's cards are very detailed, always very beautiful. She always has diverse images of people in them, which I really appreciate.

Mari Roberts:

4:30

And I'm going to read part of the actual message from the Oracle guidebook, because I think it's really important for us, especially as we go into this conversation around divorce and separation, this conversation around divorce and separation. So this card represents the great mysteries that are available for us to uncover and remember, secrets that are waiting to be found, teachings that your soul might be ready to learn. Look beyond what your eyes can see and dig a little deeper. You're here to uncover lost wisdom, ancient secrets and deep mysteries. Are you being called to study the great mysteries, to live the great questions and to step into your role as teacher, guide or mystic?

Mari Roberts:

5:22

Are you being called to question things and unearth the truths unknown, which I feel is such a great message for the conversation around divorce and separation? I feel like it's such a great question for us to connect with and to remember that maybe, in this time that we're in, it is for us to not only experience and see this process in a different way, but for us to share and to teach about our experience so that others can learn and see. I heard and hear how unfolding can look and feel, and also what I am, what we are learning and unlearning about relationship and how relationships end or how they mend. So, wow, isn't that kind of interesting what comes up? Yes, the cards never lie. The cards never lie.

Mari Roberts:

6:30

So how we got to this point? Uh, jillian and I were chatting and getting caught up on life and I was sharing. Actually, I think it started because I noticed your background was different. And I said oh wow, you're doing your. Your background was different and I said oh wow, you do.

Jillian Grover:

6:47

your space is different and you said I've moved into my own place because I separated from my husband.

Mari Roberts:

6:53

And I said, oh, my goodness, wow, interesting, guess what's happening in my life. I said I'm I'm actually getting divorced, and that led us to having this conversation and, around you know, nothing's bad, nothing is horrible, but nothing is nothing feels the way it should. Nothing feels. I don't want to say this, I know it's hard to put into words yeah, and there's like that missing element. Yeah, I felt like something's missing. Yes, yeah, and that sense of this is going to sound very generatory, but that and I feel like I want to cry, which is funny is that sense of satisfaction wasn't there, isn't there. And what I love to hear from you because I know that things are a little bit different where you are right now in your process but how has the process been for you of getting separated or being separated or even just getting to this point?

Jillian Grover:

8:01

Yeah, just, it was really hard just to get to the separation point, because making that decision is very big and it did take me 10 months once the from my first thought of it to actually doing it. 10 months to pull the trigger, so to say. Because you don't know, like your relationships, my relationship wasn't bad like he's he's a good guy, like he's not abusive. Like I felt like I have no reason to want to leave because he's not treating me horribly. You know, like I felt like why would you leave? Most women want what you have, like, they want a guy who loves you and who takes care of you. That's what I had.

Jillian Grover:

8:39

But I just felt like something was missing. You know, like, and I couldn't pinpoint it like, and I just kept hearing you need to leave for those. You know, that inner voice that I ignored for 10 months Just kept saying you need to leave, you need to just physically separate yourself for a while. So I finally pulled that trigger and having that conversation was amazing.

Jillian Grover:

9:03

That was very, very hard, you know, because you know he I don't know if he saw it coming he knew things were kind of changing the way I was acting and things like that, but I don't know if he actually saw that I was actually going to do anything. So I just yeah, it was a very hard conversation. And then we have kids. We had to tell the kids and that was hard because my um daughter, she's a senior. She was good, she's going to move this summer, so she didn't want to move twice, so she wanted to stay with my husband and then my son came with me so like I was separating my kids, I wasn't going to live with my daughter anymore, which was hard, like it was a lot.

Mari Roberts:

9:42

Yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing that. And before I start to share my story and that same sort of journey, do you, did you go to therapy? Did you have that as a part of the journey to the decision, or was that not in the cards at that point?

Jillian Grover:

10:03

I was going to therapy. Once I started thinking about that, I started seeing somebody to try to figure out my thoughts, because I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay or go. And once we did separate, then we did start going to marriage counseling for a little bit.

Mari Roberts:

10:19

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So sort of similar not really similar Something that I find really interesting. I wish I could remember where I saw this, but one of the things I did hear is that people who are going to typically get divorced, they are usually thinking about it for around three years before they do anything. So you can be really thinking about this for a long time before you get to that place. And for me, I honestly don't remember when the thoughts started. I know that I wasn't happy and that things couldn't continue the way they were going. And again, same thing.

Mari Roberts:

11:07

John's a wonderful human being and you know, he is everything that I was hoping for in a partner, even, you know, back then, many years ago, and I even remember getting married, you know, and just like how, such a perfect day and just such a great partner. And you know, even if I think about our friends and people who see us together, we are great friends and really we were great partners and we are still good friends. But I just knew something wasn't right and I wasn't feeling fulfilled. And you know, both John and I were in therapy separately and I really struggled with how to bring it up to John because, you know, there's like John pre him going to get his support for his depression to John now. So I wasn't sure what I was going to get in terms of me sharing and how it would be received. So, finally, when I, my therapist helped kind of get me to the point of saying something and reminded me that I'm just saying something, just uttering words, the funny thing is he was also thinking the same thing, you know so, and he was having conversations with his therapist about it too, right? So we decided to go to therapy together and through that process is actually what brought us to the decision to separate.

Mari Roberts:

12:42

And it was very hard. It's very hard to be the person to say that. You know, I have to do what feels right for me, and what feels right for me is for us to separate, and I know that, feel supported and where we feel fulfilled in all aspects of our partnership, whatever that looks like for for us. And the one thing that I thought was great when you and I were chatting about it was that connection and understanding that it was for both of us. It wasn't that our partner cheated, it wasn't that our partner was, you know, a gambler or drug addict or abusive. And the other thing that I thought was really interesting for both of our conversations was that it wasn't this big blow up thing, it wasn't anything like that, and why I wanted us to chat and share is that it doesn't have to look the way you think it's going to look.

Mari Roberts:

13:56

And something I shared with you was, you know, in our last conversation with our therapist, our last session, I literally said is this what unconscious coupling looks like? I feel so bad for Gwyneth you know she, she coined something and got so much heat for something. But now I understand that you can uncouple and still do it in a way that is kind, courteous and friendly and still care for the other person and maintain a friendship. Yes, so what I'd love to hear from you is what have you learned through this process and I know that the process you're in a different position than I am, but I'd still love to know what you've learned through the process.

Jillian Grover:

14:46

I have learned a lot about myself, actually. So I started dating my husband when I was 17. So first boyfriend, first everything. So I've never lived on my own. You know, I I don't think I've ever really gotten time to know who I am, because we got married. I was pregnant when we got married, so I went right into motherhood, you know, and I've been a mother, and now my kids are older and they don't need me as much, and so I'm like who am I? What do I want?

Jillian Grover:

15:14

Like I thought maybe I was just going through like a midlife crisis, but I'm like I really need to find this out, though. Like I don't know if it's our marriage, if what the issue is midlife crisis, but I need to find out who I am. So moving out has really given me time to focus on myself, you know, find what I like, who I really am, outside of being a wife and a mother. Like who is Jillian? I don't feel I've ever just been Jillian, you know. So this has really given me that opportunity, just having the separation from all of it and having my own space, like I've never lived on my own. So this is all brand new. So it's been, yeah, it's been really eye opening, just to get to know me.

Mari Roberts:

15:56

What was the biggest fear for you, or is the biggest fear even? Yeah?

Jillian Grover:

16:03

that I was making a mistake, that I would get here and realize I don't want our marriage to end, but he, it already ended because I moved, or something you know, like realizing that I made a mistake, you know, cause I didn't really know what was going on, like you know. So that was my biggest fear was whatever decision I made, like if I did decide to stay, that that was going to be the biggest mistake. Like I realized, like 10 years down the road, that what did I do? You know, so either decision was very, very fearful for me.

Mari Roberts:

16:35

Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense too. And you know, I really believe that. I mean, is anything really a mistake, right? Like if you decided to stay and realize that it wasn't right, you'd probably still leave, just at a different time. And if you left and then decided that you wanted to get back together and it was mutual, then it would work out, and if it wasn't mutual, then other pathways would open up. Yeah, you know, and I also understand, like I literally don't know I'm going to start crying Sorry, I don't know where I'm going to be living. You know, I don't know what's going to happen next and I also have to trust that it is the right thing, even though I don't know what's next. Yeah, exactly.

Mari Roberts:

17:33

Even though I don't know where I'm living. I have to trust that we're going to stay friends, and I also know that I have no control over that. I have to trust that, even though I don't know what's next, I'm going to be okay and going to be held and supported, and that unknown is far more important and valuable than being too scared to take a step in the direction. That is the words I want to say. That that's coming is like that is going to free my heart up, and I don't even know if that makes sense, but that's what's coming.

Jillian Grover:

18:17

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly how I felt. And that intuitive voice just kept getting louder and louder until it was like screaming at me, finally, like you just need to leave, and it was. And, of course, when we listened to that voice, it was the best decision. Now that I've done it and I've been what is it almost six months, wow, I've been here like, looking back, it was the best decision. So, listen to that little voice because she knows.

Mari Roberts:

18:43

Yeah, and you have support right. You have therapy. You know, for me, I'm not in therapy right now, I'm just trying to figure out who I want to work with, because we really did put most of our efforting into group. You know, counseling for coupling, coupling couples counseling but I also have friends and I, you know, I'm still. People are still finding out. A lot of people are going to probably hear this podcast and hear about it and know, like what the hell? Oh yeah.

Jillian Grover:

19:14

A lot of people are going to probably hear this podcast and hear about it and know like what the hell?

Mari Roberts:

19:17

What? Oh yeah, a lot of people don't know that we live apart. No, but also understanding that it's a journey. It's a private journey and you will be comfortable to share what you need to share with who you need to share, as it happens, and also what I found I don't know if you've found this, but when I have told people, their reactions are more shock and despair and that is really hard to handle because of their perception of our relationship and what that means for them and their relationships. I have found to be really interesting. So can you share a little bit about getting? I'm giving it away Can you share a little bit about where you are now in your relationship?

Jillian Grover:

20:06

Right now we are actually trying to work on things. We have been spending a lot more time together going on dates. We're doing trivia nights, just trying. I guess it feels kind of like dating, just trying to like, you know, cause he, he never wanted to split up, like he always has wanted to stay together. So yeah, just now that I feel like I I know myself a little bit more, like I feel like I could start pursuing this again and you know, seeing where, where it goes, it's really good right now. I mean, I still love him, so hopefully this is leading us to where we need to go. Maybe I just needed some time apart to really discover me.

Mari Roberts:

20:48

Yeah, and and I want to call out you know it's it's you said something I think really important is you still love that person and and I want to call out you know it's it's you said something I think really important is you still love that person and I still love my person and I will always love that person Right, and you're going to always love your husband, whether you decide to get back together or to go different ways. It doesn't mean that the love is gone and it may have changed, but I think that's really important. And I think you said something else really important is having the time to rediscover who you are and starting to get to know each other and date again in a new, as a new person. Essentially, date again in a new, as a new person. Essentially, you know, and that means also he has to decide does he like this new person? Does he want to date this new person? Does he want to stay with this new person? Do you like that person? Do you want to stay with that person?

Jillian Grover:

21:47

So yeah, that's where we are right now. Yeah.

Mari Roberts:

21:51

Yeah, yeah, which is great, you know, and I think I think that is another piece. This whole process is understanding that it's going to look different for everyone, but also to trust that, if you're feeling that something needs to change one, to not be afraid to give it the effort that it needs and then being okay with the final decision. What would you want others to know who are thinking about divorce or separation?

Jillian Grover:

22:27

That's hard because I do think it's a individual case by case thing, but really listen to that little voice. I wish I listened to her a little bit, but we everything happens when it's supposed to. But yeah, if you're feeling things are off, maybe go to therapy. If you need to move out, move out.

Mari Roberts:

22:47

Just listen to whatever that voice is telling you, because that was the best thing I did, like trusting yourself and hearing yourself and listening to yourself, and not the thoughts of what other people will think or what it means to other people or what it even means about you. It means nothing about you, it doesn't matter what other people think you. It means nothing about you. It doesn't matter what other people think, and sometimes I think our own guilt or meaning that we put on it will hold us back from hearing what our souls are calling us to do and to learn about ourselves and our relationships, because I just think that it just came in as like this is also part of our journey and our growth and our power.

Mari Roberts:

23:42

And if we are stifling ourselves or holding off for you name the reason what are we one potentially teaching our own kids? What are we taking away from ourselves? What are we actually potentially taking away from our partners? You know, I think that gets me emotional too. What if staying actually means that you're also keeping the person that you love from experiencing the kind of love or life that they deserve to have, because you're too afraid to make a change that is in support of both of you, because of what others may think or perceived judgments or guilt that you put on yourself?

Jillian Grover:

24:31

Yeah, I thought that too, Like during that whole time. I'm like he deserves better than what I'm giving right now, because I was in such a state of I don't know what I want to do. But yeah, he definitely deserved better and I definitely had those people. I tried to talk to people close to me but they're too I feel like they're too involved in my relationship. Like I needed that outside therapist Cause you know they're like you're going to throw away all those years together.

Mari Roberts:

24:55

It's not throwing them away.

Jillian Grover:

24:57

They were good years. I didn't throw them away. I enjoyed most of it.

Mari Roberts:

25:03

Yes, I think you make such a good point there, right, because sometimes other people's perception it's like it's not throwing anything away. It is honoring what was what was and creating space for what is to come. Yes, yeah, this is so good. Is there anything else that is coming up that you want to share? Is there anything that you wanted me to cover or thought like hey, mari, I wish you would have brought this up before we, before we, before we wrap.

Jillian Grover:

25:37

Um, no, I think the most important thing is just to listen to yourself, what you're feeling, even if you don't know what you're feeling. I was so back and forth all the time, Like we'd have a good day and I'm like, oh, you know I shouldn't leave, and then I'd have a bad day and I'd be like I need to leave. So just like just getting quiet with yourself and really talking to a therapist, journaling, you know, maybe communicating with your partner is a good thing about your feelings, you know, depending on your relationship. So just really listening to yourself and figuring out what you want, you know, outside of your relationship too, yeah, of your relationship too.

Mari Roberts:

26:16

Yeah, what you want outside of your relationship, outside of what anyone else thinks or perceives, outside of even what you, uh. You know, I never thought I would get divorced, so like even outside of what your own thoughts could be about what's next?

Jillian Grover:

26:31

Yeah, cause even I feel like the word divorce sounds like such an ugly word, like the minute you say divorce, like my husband even said this to me. He's like when people find out we're separated they're going to look at me like I did something wrong, because usually they do. They think the guy did something wrong. He was verbally abusive or something you know. Something was wrong in that you know, most people don't think it can be mutual. You know, nothing could have happened.

Mari Roberts:

26:58

Yeah, with the person was only meant to be for a period of time. What if? And what if? That is also okay. What if there is mutual love and respect through the period of time that is meant to be, and when the time has come, the time has come and you can still maintain love, friendship and respect. What if?

Jillian Grover:

27:30

Yep, and then you're opening the door to other soul contracts, exactly you know when it's their time to come in.

Mari Roberts:

27:38

Exactly, exactly, oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for being gracious and opening up to share about this. I I really appreciate it and I hope that anyone listening takes away that this phase of life can look and feel different for everyone and to really trust yourself and trust that inner knowing and to give yourself grace as you go through this process and just know, know you're going to, you're going to be okay on the other side, whatever that looks like, whether it is in, you know, a separation that comes back into dating and possibly getting back together, to moving on and going separate ways. Just trust, rest.

If today's episode resonated with you, share your thoughts and feelings in any review section to let me know where you're at on your journey, sending you big love to bring those passions to life because, remember, you deserve it.

This was a 6-2 Studio production. Find us at six-two.studio for all your creative sound needs.