Brick by Brick
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Brick by Brick
Housing Choice Vouchers do a lot of good. Could they do more?
Housing Choice Vouchers are portable subsidies that low-income families can use to lower their rents in the private market. But is this 50-year old solution to the housing crisis working as well as it should? The Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and local entities like the Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority and Greater Dayton Premier Management, which receive the federal funds from HUD to issue the vouchers, are trying to make changes but budgetary constraints are hampering their efforts.
Interview guests:
HUD Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for Public and Indian Housing Rich Monocchio, Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority CEO Greg Johnson and Greater Dayton Premier Management CEO Jennifer Heapy.
Ann Thompson:
Housing Choice Vouchers have been around since the 1970s, but is the largest rental assistance program in the country working.
Otto Goodin:
That's the only thing that really kept me from being homeless. This has been vital and important part for me in my life.
Gwendolyn Barden:
They were great for me. I worked and I paid partial rent and they paid the majority of it.
Ann Thompson:
However, there aren't enough vouchers to go around and only one in four eligible families can get one. Plus, both Cincinnati and Dayton public housing authorities have temporarily frozen new vouchers due to federal funding.
Greg Johnson:
You're always planning a push pull game, making sure that you have enough funding to be sure that you can lease as many families in your community as possible,
Ann Thompson:
And when families are fortunate enough to secure a Section 8 housing voucher, they have as little as two months to find a place that accepts them.
Jennifer Heapy:
There's always a shortfall of landlords and so we're constantly trying to do outreach.
Ann Thompson:
Meanwhile, housing providers say they have their reasons for resisting participation.
Jeff Campbell:
It's not necessarily the people you're renting to, but the government bureaucracy and the politics that you have to go through
Ann Thompson:
On this episode of Brick By Brick Housing Choice Vouchers, how they work, who's benefiting, and what the evidence says about their success and areas for improvement.
Rich Monocchio:
It's not enough to say, here's your voucher here’s, 60 days,
Ann Thompson:
Let's get into it. This is Brick by Brick Solutions for a thriving community.
Ame Clase:
Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to leading support from the Debra and Robert Chavez and Greater Cincinnati Foundation. With additional major support from AES Ohio Foundation, Laurie Johnston; Susan Howarth Foundation, the George and Margaret McLane Foundation, Diane and Dave Moccia, The Robert and Jean Penny Endowment Fund of The Dayton Foundation, the Robert & Adelle Schiff Family Foundation, and more. Thank you.
Ann Thompson:
Hello, and welcome to Brick by Brick, where we're highlighting solutions for a thriving community in southwest Ohio. I'm your host Ann Thompson. Government assistance is an important part of keeping people housed. Without it, millions of families across the country couldn't afford their rent. Since we're solutions based, Brick by Brick wondered how well public housing is really working. Specifically on today's show, we're going to focus on the solution of housing choice vouchers as we always do. Let's set the table with some context. First, public housing oversees a couple of programs, project-based rental assistance and housing vouchers. The vouchers are portable subsidies allowing tenants to rent in the private market. To be eligible, renters must be at 50% or below area median income, but most are just at 30% making $30,000 or less. Here's how the voucher works. It pays all the rent minus 30% of the tenant's income. Without this government subsidy, millions of people couldn't afford an apartment. Quentin Drummer recently moved to Cincinnati from Savannah, Georgia and is looking for permanent housing. He's staying in a shelter right now and says Getting a job was easy, but the housing part is hard.
Quentin Drummer:
If someone is in need of housing, there should be an assistance to where people can go there and they can get housing within a month, not wait six months to a year. It is ridiculous.
Ann Thompson:
And that's the crux of the problem. Nationwide, 2.3 million households have a voucher, but at least 10 million are eligible and can't get them. Unlike entitlement programs like food stamps or Medicaid, which automatically grow with need, Congress each year sets the amount of rental aid and runs it through the Department of Housing and Urban Development or HUD. This year it's $30 billion. That's not enough to cover everyone. That would take an estimated 100 billion. There are families who can't get help locally. The Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority has 3000 families still on the waiting list from 2022. Greater Dayton Premier Management. The Housing authority in Dayton says in Montgomery County, the wait list is 4,000 and the need is still growing. While rent continues to go up, wages are not equally increasing for everyone. The Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies did a national survey for the New York Times and found eligible households for vouchers grew by 25% while the assistance declined to its lowest level in a quarter of a century. Brick by brick went to Cincinnati's West End neighborhood and talked to some people who either have a voucher or used to have one. They didn't have any major complaints. Otto Gooden says the voucher system is a great thing.
Otto Goodin:
Some things is bad, but they doing the best they can.
Ann Thompson:
Denise is homeless but used to have a voucher.
Denise:
I think it's a pretty good Program, kind of hard to find nice places to live, although I was lucky and Found one.
Ann Thompson:
Sometimes it can be difficult to find a place to live in the private market using a government housing voucher, but Brick by Brick’s, Emiko Moore found a Dayton resident who did it and is making a better life for herself and her family. Hi, Emiko.
Emiko Moore:
Hi, Ann. Yes, you're right. It can be challenging. Vouchers are a highly prized commodity since many are on a waiting list for several years and those who are waiting are often rent burdened paying over 30%, sometimes up to 50% of their income on rent, which in turn leaves a lot less money for needed food, medicine and other necessities. Let's take a listen.
Dayton resident, Kaneika Lovett is a proud mother of two successful adults, but her journey was not so easy. Lovett who works as a server and bartender at Olive Garden relied on housing vouchers to provide a stable environment for her children when she was pregnant at 22 and working various jobs.
Kaneika Lovett:
My mom told me, and I didn't understand it back then, but create a life for yourself before you make another one, and that is what I've been trying to instill in my children because I didn't understand it at the time.
Emiko Moore:
GDPM, greater Dayton Premier Management, the local housing authority provides resources for housing to more than 4,000 low income families in Montgomery County, but the demand is even greater when the wait list opened. This February for Section eight vouchers, another 4,000 people applied, CEO. Jennifer Heapy says.
Jennifer Heapy:
Some people can wait 3, 4, 5 years before they get called that a voucher is available to them.
Emiko Moore:
After a year and a half wait. Lovett found a place in West Dayton, one of the few areas that accepted vouchers, but over time as her children were growing up, concerns about safety education and access to food began to weigh heavily.
Kaneika Lovett:
If everybody you see is struggling to eat, struggling to live, just struggling to make it, then you don't know that there's people out here happy. There's people out here eating two, three times a day. There's kids that's play in a park.
Emiko Moore:
According to Heapy healthy neighborhoods are building blocks for generational change.
Jennifer Heapy:
Research has shown that if you have a family, particularly with young children and before the age of 12, if they are moved to an area of opportunity and that could be better schools, again, better access to healthcare, transportation, those types of things, that the cumulative impact far outweighs the cost of the subsidy,
Emiko Moore:
But finding landlords in the private market to accept vouchers in an area of opportunity neighborhood is challenging.
Kaneika Lovett:
They look down on the people who have vouchers because they think we're getting a free ride or we don't try hard. A lot of us work hard. We have jobs. We pay rent just like everybody else. It is just a little security that we do have in order to make sure that we have somewhere to live.
Emiko Moore:
While not all landlords think this way, many just don't know about it. Joan Ulloth owns four rentals in Kettering and was unaware of the voucher program. She thought Section 8 was a complicated government program.
Joan Ulloth:
I've been in this business for close to 20 years now. I've had people say, do you take Section 8? And I just said, no, and I didn't look into it at all because it seemed like it was too big.
Emiko Moore:
When a tenant brought it to her attention, Ulloth decided to take a closer look. After reviewing it, she found the paperwork manageable and agreed to participate.
Joan Ulloth:
It's detailed, but it is no more complicated than applying for a mortgage.
Emiko Moore:
And during Covid, when some of her tenants lost their jobs, Ulloth went without rental income for a year, vouchers for her ensured steady payments.
Joan Ulloth:
I've got a guarantee that you will get paid every month. That was a safety net for me.
Emiko Moore:
Only 43% of those who receive vouchers in Montgomery County are able to secure a place to rent. GDPM recognizes landlords are vital partners and recently hired a landlord liaison to streamline communication.
Jennifer Heapy:
We fully acknowledge we need landlords or this will not work, so we try and do as much as we can for the landlords, be as efficient as we can be during the process.
Emiko Moore:
Many landlords are advocating for improvements in this public private partnership, including greater flexibility in inspections and less delays.
Joan Ulloth:
I did think that the expectation that I needed a smoke detector in every room was a bit ridiculous. That’s okay, we can deal with that. Those are not deal breakers.
Emiko Moore:
To help tenants build towards independence and self-reliance, GDPM also offers a home ownership program.
Jennifer Heapy:
We work with the families and if they complete it, we have some partner banks and they know how to use the voucher in the mortgage calculation and they can use that to purchase a home.
Emiko Moore:
The program helps tenants navigate a pathway to home ownership.
Kaneika Lovett:
It made me focus more on my goals. What do you want? I want a house. You got to get out. You got to get it.
Emiko Moore:
Lovett is now a proud new homeowner and her Yorkshire Terrier Cocoa is happy to play in the backyard.
Kaneika Lovett:
I am a homeowner. I'm a homeowner. I'm not just a voucher holder. I own this home. I worked hard for this and I'm going to continue to work hard for it.
Ann Thompson:
I liked hearing the success that she was able to have Emiko. I'm wondering who is eligible to participate in the Homeownership program?
Emiko Moore:
Well, just like the housing choice voucher program, it is voluntary, but you do need to be a first time home buyer. They will then be referred to a home ownership center by GDPM where they learn to set goals for home ownership and improve their credit scores. They're also enrolled in a family self-sufficiency program, which puts money into an escrow or third party account for a specific goal, which for home buyers is typically a mortgage. The family self-sufficiency program can also be used to pay for a car, tuition or even credit card debt as long as the goal is working towards independence and self-sufficiency. Not all public housing authorities have these programs, so be sure to check with your local housing authority to find out if they do
Ann Thompson:
Interesting information. We'll check back in with you for the takeaways.
Emiko Moore:
Thank you.
Ann Thompson:
You just heard from Greater Dayton Premier Management CEO, Jennifer Heapy who says only 43% of families who get a voucher can use it. One problem is discrimination. In the 40 plus years that vouchers have been around local zoning boards and property owners sometimes make it difficult, people with vouchers to live in certain areas, he defends our clientele.
Jennifer Heapy:
Over 80% of the people that we serve are either working or disabled, but they've got some type of earned income. These are not individuals who are just sitting back and not working.
Ann Thompson:
The City of Dayton prohibits source of income discrimination, meaning landlords cannot refuse choice housing vouchers. However, many Montgomery County communities don't have an ordinance like that. Another challenge Heapy Faces is rising rent. A recent report lists Dayton as the fourth highest city nationally for rent increases of a one bedroom apartment. Since 2019, it's gone up 44%. More housing choices could help lower prices. Heapy says she tries to get at least 50 to 60 new landlords a year. South of there, The Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority is also on the lookout for more housing providers. Jeff Campbell and his partner Caroline Cartier accepts Section 8 housing vouchers. Campbell grew up in public housing and knows there's a stigma that comes with it.
Jeff Campbell:
Oh, you're lazy, you're this, you're that, and I saw these people as people and I said, you know what? If I'm going to do this, if I'm going to do real estate, I'm going to also do it the right way and not just try to make a quick buck or what you would call for profit.
Ann Thompson:
But there have been some hiccups as Campbell rents out his single family homes. So your organization, the Real Estate Investors Association of Greater Cincinnati sent us a chart and it showed one of the problems that housing providers have to face, and that is having your property vacant for a couple of months showing what can happen and what you can expect.
Jeff Campbell:
There's almost like a two week lag for the inspection in some ways, and then in order after the inspection, the tenant has to qualify on paper by applying for the unit background check, credit check, things of that nature.
Ann Thompson:
To help move the process along. Sometimes he even shows up in the middle of the day on behalf of his tenant to wait for hours as the government paperwork gets approved. Campbell says the process would be better if it operated as a cash card, like SNAP benefits so tenants can get the money they need to shop for a place to live. He also would like the inspection process streamlined. He says There are inconsistencies. Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority CEO, Greg Johnson has a lot on his plate with rising rents, more people looking for housing and tenants making less, he faces a deficit and because of it, CMHA is not issuing any new vouchers.
Greg Johnson:
What we're projecting is that we may have a shortfall in funding based on what the PUC cost is and what the program is running of maybe about 200,000 low over $200,000 at the end of the calendar year.
Ann Thompson:
Johnson says during this voucher freeze, his agency is working with families who are looking for housing to hold down costs. Much of Cincinnati's government managed public housing is concentrated in the West End where nearly half the population lives in poverty and life expectancy is just 71 years old. In Mount Adams, it's 88 years old. A group of property owners and community council leaders there have submitted a complaint to the Department of Housing and Urban Development. The inquiry reports the group alleges Cincinnati is violating both the Civil Rights Act and the Fair Housing Act by steering low income housing tax credits and federal housing funds into the West End and other poor black neighborhoods and its hurting their communities. The group wants the city to stop putting subsidized housing in these neighborhoods. The city has no comment and over the Ryan Community Housing told another outlet. WCPO, the complaint is off base like landlord. Jeff Campbell Johnson also grew up in public housing and wants voucher holders to have choices.
Greg Johnson:
Is the city of Cincinnati directing people? No. People are making a choice on where they feel comfortable, where their family is, where their roots are, and all of those things on where they would like to live with the voucher.
Ann Thompson:
Johnson says, tenants can now submit information through a portal so they don't have to come to the CMHA office. He says landlords have been able to do this for a few years now. He also acknowledges there could be a way to better streamline the approval process coming up on Brick by Brick, how the agency behind Housing Choice Vouchers response to local criticisms and economist Raj Chetty proves the portability of vouchers works to improve education, health, wealth and more.
Joan Ulloth:
I'm engaged in a series of projects that will explore what conditions lead to greater equality of opportunity
Ann Thompson:
That's ahead as brick by brick.
Ame Clase:
Brick by brick is made possible thanks to the generous support of so many, including Murray and Agnes season. Good, good government foundation, Rosemary and Mark Schlater, the Camden Foundation, Patty and Fred Heldman, DD and Gary West, the Steven H. Wilder Foundation, Judith and Thomas Thompson, A donation in memory of Frank and Margaret Lenhart and more. Thank you. We couldn't do this work without you.
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
Hey, it is Herns Legger Jr. One of the team members behind Brick by Brick. Our new show is about solutions for a thriving community, but if you think about it, we all have a different perspective of what a thriving community should look like. That's why we need to hear from you. We want to know what a thriving community looks like to you. Maybe it's more housing, more parks or stores or even safer sidewalks. Whatever your vision, we hope you'll share with us. You can do that by heading to the Brick by Brick show page on CT connect.org or think tv.org. There you'll find an audience question button. Just fill out the survey and that's it. We look forward to sharing your hopes and dreams with the rest of our neighbors in future episodes. Thank you.
Ann Thompson:
Welcome back to Brick by Brick, the Furman Center for Real Estate and Urban Policy at New York University studied 1300 public housing authorities in 2022, it found 90,000 households that got vouchers were unable to use them. That's about half. They couldn't find housing in the time they were given ranging from two to six months. Furman's analysis finds if renters have only two months, less than a third are successful, and USA today reports. HUD doesn't require housing authorities to track or improve high failure rates and instead treats them like airlines overselling seats. In 2022, the local authorities likely issued about two vouchers for every slot available. There have been calls to reform the housing choice voucher program since 2002. HUD has commissioned four studies to assess the performance of the housing choice voucher program. The most recent was in 2019 when the voucher success rate was 61%, meaning only 61% of the families who got vouchers were able to use them Brick by brick interviewed HUD principal, deputy Assistant Secretary for Public and Indian Housing Rich Occhio.
Rich Monocchio:
That's a concerning number for me personally. One of the most important things on my agenda is to make it so that every single person who perceives a voucher because let's remember, this is something that oftentimes you wait 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years for
Ann Thompson:
Occhio used to run Chicago's Cook County Public Housing Authority. Right now, the law says voucher holders have at least 60 days to find a place. Occhio says that's being changed in early next year. They will have double that time, 120 days. Something else he says will help getting the voucher value as close to the median rent as possible. 44% of vouchers are now set by zip code called Small Area Fair Market Rent. Cincinnati and Dayton don't have it this year but will have it next year. That would help the voucher be more competitive with market prices, possibly making it more attractive to area housing providers. Brick by brick asked Occhio about delays in inspections that cause landlords to lose money. He says that's unacceptable and cites his own Cook County where you could get an inspection in three hours. He says, housing authorities just need to focus on plumbing, electricity, and other safety measures, not graffiti and an uneven sidewalk.
Rich Monocchio:
We're looking for having safe, decent housing, not perfect housing. That's an important point because not every apartment is perfect. Most places do have a few things wrong, but as long as it doesn't rise to that level of life, health and safety, we're going to approve it.
Ann Thompson:
There is one public housing authority that some point to as a model of success, Boston, 88% of families are able to use their vouchers despite one of the most expensive and competitive rental markets in the country. According to USA today, Boston doesn't just turn people loose with a voucher. It connects them to somebody who helps them find a home. Partnering with schools, homeless shelters and other social service groups helps fill the gap, and Boston doesn't just open a wait list every couple of years. It relies on organizations to refer families in need. HUDs Occhio says this is important.
Rich Monocchio:
It is so important when the city government gets involved, actually take potential tenants out on the road to find a place. I did that in Cook County, so it is happening more and more.
Ann Thompson:
Cincinnati and Dayton public housing authorities also work with social service agencies to help voucher holders find housing, but possibly not to the extent as some others study after study shows children thrive when they can move out of poverty. Harvard economist Raj Chetty is studying the effects on kids nationwide who move to what's being called areas of opportunity. These are neighborhoods that have lower poverty rates, higher performing schools, and better access to things like healthcare, transit and groceries.
Raj Chetty:
Many people are concerned that there are large groups of the population that don't have a chance to succeed. I'm engaged in a series of projects that will explore what conditions lead to greater equality of opportunity.
Ann Thompson:
More than a decade ago, he explained to the MacArthur Foundation who named him a fellow that moving out of poverty improves college attendance rates and earnings for those who moved when they were age 13 or younger. He also found these children also live in better neighborhoods themselves as adults and are less likely to become single parents, and according to his research, they had an income of at least $3,000 higher when they were in their twenties. Chetty says there is more research to do
Raj Chetty:
When you have that view of the world. You might then think about how you create more integration, how you connect people from different backgrounds through residential desegregation, through programs that might bring different types of people into contact with each other. There are many different things to explore and I think that's an interesting area for further policy intervention For further work,
Ann Thompson:
Chetty says age is critical. He found moving to areas of opportunity as a teenager did not have any significant impact on earnings or other outcomes, so making the move when they are young is key. Remember, if you want to learn more about housing choice vouchers and how they are being used, there are plenty of resources including web articles, video and audio stories and online extras. Go to CT connect.org and think tv.org and while you're there, click on one of the big green buttons to give some feedback or answer our current audience question. We'd really like to hear from you. Let's now reflect on what resonated with us in this episode, and we welcome back Emiko.
Emiko Moore:
Hi Ann.
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
Hey everyone.
Ann Thompson:
Emiko, what are your thoughts?
Emiko Moore:
I think that getting more landlords on board with a program is key. If you have a high number of renters who wait years to finally get a voucher but then can't find a place that accepts them and has to return the voucher, then there needs to be more focus on removing the roadblocks for the landlord's participation. If the amount of time for inspections is an issue, then is it possible to hire more inspectors to reduce the time? Is it possible to reduce the amount of paperwork or is it possible to get a set shared of expectations for renters and landlords to avoid future issues? Montgomery County has recently hired a landlord liaison a point person for landlords, so we should be able to see if landlords are finding that helpful. All good questions.
Ann Thompson:
Good questions to ask Emiko, Hernz?
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
Hearns. To piggyback off of that, Emiko, no two choice voucher experiences are the same. Joan Ulloth that you interviewed in Dayton, she expressed how she had initial resistance to choice vouchers. It may have been because of those roadblocks, but she realized that the process really didn't take any longer than a mortgage filing was, but then Jeff Campbell in Cincinnati shared that the process could use some refinement to speed up the process, but I would say one takeaway that really left an impression on me was when Joan shared the misconception that comes with people with choice vouchers and how they're irresponsible with money, but she said in her experience, just like everyone else, there are a lot of responsible people with choice vouchers.
Ann Thompson:
It's easy to point out some negatives with housing choice vouchers, for example. There's not enough to go around. Only one out of four families can get one, but there are a couple of positives. HUD beginning next year is extending the time people have to find housing with a voucher from 60 days to 120 days, so imagine the difference that would make, and then both Cincinnati and Dayton are on a list where the voucher amount will be set by zip code beginning next year. This will get the voucher value as close to the median rent as possible and help the voucher to be more competitive with market prices, making it more attractive to housing providers. We have thrown a lot of information at you, we don't expect you to remember at all. You can go to the website, cetconnect.org or thinktv.org and it'll be all there. Thanks for your insights, guys. Thank you.
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
No problem.
Emiko Moore:
Thanks
Ann Thompson:
Coming up on the next episode of Brick By Brick, Nationwide, we're building new apartments at record rates after consistently under-producing new housing for decades, will more large scale Multi-families make a difference? It's helping to hold rent down in Minneapolis,
Meg McMahan:
Figure out ways to get those allowed in more places. Developers know how to build those and make money.
Ann Thompson:
We've spent time diving into the missing middle, so now let's take a look at another typology that's next time on Brick by Brick.
That's our show. If you like what you hear, please rate and review our podcast. It makes it easier to find. We hope you learn something and if you did, please tell your friends and family about it. For Emiko Moore and Hernz Laguerre Jr. I'm Ane Thompson. We'll be back soon with more solutions. Take care.
Our show is produced, hosted an edited by me, Ann Thompson with reporting and story editing from Hernz Laguerre Jr. and Emiko Moore. Our Executive producer of Mark Lammers. Our show consultant is Gloria Skurski. Gabe Wimberly is our audio engineer and mixer. Zach Kramer runs the lights and cameras. Derrick Smith is our production specialist and Jason Garrison is our production manager. Kellie May heads up our marketing and promotions, along with Mike Shea and Bridgett Dillenburger. Elyssa Stefenson handles the website and Steve Wright is our designer. Bill Dean and Andres Kruza are the engineers for the show and our Chief Content Officer is Colin Scianamblo. Our music is from Universal Production Music. Brick by Brick: Solutions for a Thriving Community is a production of CET and ThinkTV, Southwest Ohio PBS member stations.