Brick by Brick
This regional community affairs program is about exploring solutions to complex problems in Southwest Ohio. This podcast is a companion piece to our larger project. Visit https://www.cetconnect.org/BrickbyBrick/ to learn more.
Brick by Brick
Solutions Sidebar: A Cross City Exchange of Housing Ideas
Thousands of people in Cincinnati and Dayton either can’t find a home they can afford or can’t afford the one they live in. Both cities are taking steps to address the housing crisis. What are they doing and is it enough? Brick by Brick hosts two city leaders, from Dayton and Cincinnati, to talk through possible solutions.
Interview Guests: Cincinnati Councilmember Jeff Cramerding and Dayton City Commissioner Shenise Turner-Sloss.
Ann Thompson:
Cincinnati and Dayton are at a housing crossroads. Both cities are short thousands of affordable units and each is taking steps to create more of it. Council member Jeff Cramerding is working to guide Cincinnati's housing strategy.
Jeff Cramerding:
Over the next year, we hope to see a number of really new market rate housing communities with retail underneath. So we're creating housing and we're also creating catalytic investment in the neighborhoods that need it.
Ann Thompson:
Dayton City Commissioner, Shenise Turner-Sloss promises to rebuild area communities one block at a time. And along with Council Member Cramerding is focused on solutions.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
The city administration, they're looking at quadrants of the city. And so right now we just repealed to pass legislation for the community reinvestment area to now include again, some more of those economically challenged areas that were not included.
Ann Thompson:
On this episode, we're back with a Solutions Sidebar, Brick by Brick talks to Cincinnati Councilmember Cramderding and Dayton City Commissioner Turner-Sloss about the need for more housing, what types might work best, how capital A affordable housing fits in, and what it's going to take to get there. My colleagues, Herns Laguerre Jr. and Emiko Moore join me at the end for some takeaways and a couple of quick notes, this uncut interview was recorded before the election. That's important because we speculated on a few federal funding sources. And there's an online video version of this conversation you can find on our webpage or on the PBS app. Let's get into it. This is Brick by Brick: Solutions for a thriving community.
Ame Clase:
Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to leading support from Debra and Robert Chavez, Greater Cincinnati Foundation and the George and Margaret McLane Foundation, with additional major support from The AES Ohio Foundation, Laurie Johnston and the Seasongood Good Government Foundation, Diane and Dave Moccia, The Robert and Jean Penny Endowment Fund of The Dayton Foundation, the Robert & Adelle Schiff Family Foundation, and more. Thank you.
Ann Thompson:
Hello to you at home or wherever you're watching or listening from. With me in the studio today are Councilmember Jeff Cramerding and Dayton City Commissioner Shenise Turner-Sloss. Welcome to Brick By Brick. Thank you.
Jeff Cramerding:
Thank you.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
It’s great to be here.
Ann Thompson:
As you know, people are suffering in terms of trying to find affordable housing no matter what their income level. And I know things have been done both in Cincinnati and Dayton, but maybe not enough. So I wanted to bring you here today to just get the latest information and also as a conversation just talk amongst ourselves just to find out what has been done. So again, thanks for being here. And City Commissioner, I'll start with you. If you could describe the state of housing in Dayton.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Well, like any other city across the state of Ohio, we are dealing with the challenges of the housing crisis. But I have to back up. A lot of people negate the fact that we are still recovering from the economic downturn. In 2008, we were hit very hard by predatory lending the foreclosure crisis as well as a lot of manufacturing jobs that left the Dayton area. So when you have what we're seeing right now in the housing crisis, again, it has been exasperated by a number of things. COVID-19, there were a number of tornadoes that blew through our area. So we're trying to right size our community all the while dealing with a number of dilapidated abandoned properties that we have throughout the city of Dayton.
Ann Thompson:
I'm glad you brought that up. You are certainly dealing with a lot.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
We are dealing with a lot as well as the growing unhoused population that we're seeing in the Cty of Dayton. And I will add too, what we're finding out as a number of things, one, some of the people that we're seeing in our community, they're not necessarily from the Dayton community, we're also seeing that with the crisis of mental health as being a major issue in a Dayton area, many people, they do not want the services. They do not want the help. And so you have those competing forces that we're dealing with the shortages of housing stock that we have available, let alone the quality of housing that we have in the city of Dayton. So we're rolling up our sleeves, we're looking at a number of different initiatives. I was proud to support and draft as well as introduce legislation for the priority set forth by the Dayton City Commission, looking at how do we really start tackling this issue head on and identify, excuse me, the priorities.
And in doing so, we were able to create the housing policy framework, which was unanimously approved by all five council members. And so we're doing everything we need to do. In addition, I will add the $138 million from the American Rescue Act planet that we receive ARPA dollars. We like to frame it as the dates and recovery dollars. Out of that $138 million, we were able to utilize $55 million into our neighborhood. Now that is a drop in the bucket considering all of the issues that we have ongoing. So those are just some of the things that we're looking at and looking at, again, best practices across the state and beyond.
Ann Thompson:
Yeah, thank you for that. And we'll get into some of those things a little bit later. Council Member Cramerding, for a long time you chaired the housing committee, equitable Growth and Housing. What are things looking like in Cincinnati in terms of state of housing?
Jeff Cramerding:
Yeah, in Cincinnati, we are growing. People want to move back into the City of Cincinnati after many decades of decline and people moving out of the city. So we're seeing a reverse, all of that trend. Many of our neighbors are neighbors of choice, which are growing quickly, which is a good thing. But with that comes associated problems. When people want to move into a neighborhood, it means rising housing values and rising rents, which are also good things, but it does create issues of displacement and people no longer being able to afford to live in their neighborhood. And this is neighborhoods in Cincinnati like Madisonville and Kennedy Heights, which are now very, very popular. So what we need to do is build housing to meet that new demand. I mean, people with money are going to move where they want and we need to have housing for those people or else they're going to be moving into other apartments, other houses and be causing displacement.
Ann Thompson:
So in the most recent budget then Cincinnati Council allocated 10 and a half million for additional housing. What does that look like?
Jeff Cramerding:
Yes, I mean, our housing plan is also multifaceted. We passed our Connected Communities initiative last year, which makes building housing in Cincinnati easier, especially along our main thoroughfares, our major corridors. So that makes development easier. And then providing the cash to make some of these connected communities happen. It's going to be very exciting. So putting 10.5 million in, we've got a number of housing projects in the pipeline. So over the next year, we hope to see a number of really new market rate housing communities with retail underneath. So we're creating housing and we're also creating catalytic investment in the neighborhoods that need it.
Ann Thompson:
Yeah, good news. And we'll talk about Connected Communities a little bit later in the conversation. Commissioner for Dayton, the budget includes about 35 million as efforts to remove blight and repair housing continue. And then in March, 2024, voters approved issue six, extending a quarter percent income tax renewal, which will bring in an estimated $650,000 per year for eight years for the city to invest in housing. What's the latest?
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
So thank you for bringing that up. So very excited to add that additional bucket, as we call it, to housing the 650,000. The voters unanimously, I think it was like 71% of voters supported this income tax levy. And we are using that as a model. In fact, to leverage the dollars that our land bank was able to receive from the Ohio Department of Development, the $7 million I might add. So that 650,000 will be used to provide additional housing opportunities and options and access to those who are interested in home ownership as well as assisting existing homeowners. So again, we're trying to utilize what we currently have again, so what we have been awarded, whether it's through the state, the federal government. So we're using those dollars again to address some of the housing concerns throughout the city.
Ann Thompson:
You mentioned the Land Bank, so let's talk about that a little bit further. Ohio awarded Montgomery County the most of any county in Ohio, 7 million to buy and rehabilitate properties for income eligible residents. I think I was reading that this was for 40 new properties and two dozen to be renovated. Is there any further information about this? I don't know if you're still taking bids, and when would these be built? I know this the county and you're the city.
Speaker Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Yes, that is correct. So right now we are in the process of developing the MOU so that we can in fact leverage those dollars to 650,000 over to the Land Bank too for the additional resources. So we're in conversation as to what that will look like, and also the partners that will be utilized to distribute those funds out into the various communities that are aligned for this particular project. So we are very excited about it. As you mentioned, Montgomery County was the largest award of the $7 million, and we believe that this is the shot in the arm that we need to start getting a number of those dilapidated or reelect properties back online to provide access for future home ownership.
Ann Thompson:
Very good. Councilmember Cramerding, the zoning changes that were passed this summer, Connected Communities, you briefly talked about what that is. I'm wondering what can we expect to see? So I'm assuming more dense housing and when would that happen?
Jeff Cramerding:
It's a multi-part plan. The Connected Communities was the first part to make the development easier, which was very, very important. Our zoning code was very outdated going back to the 1970s where cities were dying and we changed our zoning code so that the city would look more like the suburbs, single family houses, restaurants with large surface parking lots. And that strategy of making the city look like the suburbs failed, not. So this change connected communities was to go back to our roots, denser housing, retail, restaurants on the bottom, housing on top, less parking requirements, and putting parking behind buildings so that connected communities makes that possible. So that was the first step. The next step is providing the cash incentives to make a lot of these big developments happen in neighborhoods that need development. Things are going very well in the city of Cincinnati and other urban areas, but development is still harder and it still needs an incentive. So as we talked about, we put 10.5 million in during our carryover process. That'll be a bridge. And we also had the Cincinnati Futures Commission, which we had labor leaders, business leaders, civic leaders, looking at the city's budget. And they identified a need for us and said that they thought a 0.1% earnings tax is necessary to make these development continue. So there'll be definitely a lot of talk about that Cincinnati futures and our housing earnings tax this year, which will provide the financial incentives to really make connected communities happen and build them out.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
That's great. May I add please? Yes, please. We're actually doing the very same thing in terms of updating that zoning code. You hit the nail on the head. Our zoning code is outdated for about 20 years there. So again, the staff is, they're very committed. They're dedicated, if you will, to updating the zoning code. We're also looking at, just recently, matter of fact, I think it was last week, week before last, we expanded our noise abatement definition to include vehicles, large drums, outdoor storage, anything that is wasteful and harmful to the environment, tires included. So we're looking at various mechanisms to address those issues. And they always say the State of Ohio, we travel impacts always the many of the municipalities we follow, each other's lead. And so that's exactly what we're doing.
Ann Thompson:
That's great. I'm glad that you were mentioning that because that was actually my next question. It seems like Dayton has a more low key approach to zoning changes. They kind of just make things without one huge big zoning change. And I was wondering if density is a key concern or a stabilization.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Absolutely. It is a concern across the state. As you've mentioned, many of us are having those various challenges, and so we are looking at more of our economic distress and challenging areas. For instance, we have just expanded our community reinvestment areas to those more distressed areas to entice and increase development to also provide an tax abatement for 15 years over a hundred percent. So we're trying to find ways to attract developers into the urban core as well as providing those mechanisms for our existing homeowners.
Ann Thompson:
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that also. And what about, isn't there talk of a housing fund too, a trust fund?
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
So it's interesting that you've brought that up. So I have been working very diligently to bring that forth. My hope is that I'll have the support of the rest of the members so that we can get something passed. The housing trust fund is definitely needed, especially with all of the investment that we're making, the 650,000 that you mentioned with the income tax renewal. That is an opportunity for us to expand the use of those dollars and to really start addressing these issues that we're seeing in housing,
Ann Thompson:
The community reinvestment areas, how many areas are there and where are they?
Speaker Shenise Turner-Sloss:
So they're all throughout the city of Dayton, but once upon a time, they were very fragmented, if you will. So what we've decided to do, thanks to our law department as well as our planning and neighborhood development department, the city administration, they're looking at quadrants of the city right now. We just repealed to pass legislation for the community reinvestment area to now include again to more of those economically challenged areas that were not included. So now again, we're looking at the southwest quadrant of the city, the northwest quadrant of the city, looking at those various areas so that we can make sure that we are expanding those opportunities across the city.
Ann Thompson:
Let's talk about Cincinnati's Housing Fund. So as we alluded to before, for a while there was a chunk of it we couldn't use. And how will this evolve in the future? You mentioned that some of this new money is going to be going to that.
Jeff Cramerding:
Yes, $10 million is going right into the housing fund, which is administered by our community partner, the Cincinnati Development Fund. We're very excited. Our community development staff at City Hall is wonderful, but we found that being able to shift dollars out of City Hall, getting them a little farther away from the politics lets them move more nimbly. So we look forward to what they're going to do with this next round of money, and we just are determined to keep the money going and to keep these housing projects going with our partner at CDF and our other partners as well.
Ann Thompson:
Yeah, you were shaking your head. I guess you realize the importance of having partners.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Absolutely. They make us do our job better, if you will, and they are a necessary entity and for us to address the various issues that we're having in our community, community, excuse me, from the social services, from the housing developers that we have across the city of Dayton and beyond the businesses, our local union unions, excuse me. So it's an opportunity for us to build those partnerships to address the various issues that we're seeing. So partnerships are definitely a key. We have between the Montgomery County, Dayton area, habitat for Humanity County Corp, we have just the list goes on and on. In terms of the partners that we're seeing, east End Community Services, I cannot negate the work that they're doing in East States. And right now,
Ann Thompson:
I hope you're enjoying our conversation with Cincinnati Councilmember Jeff Cramerding and Dayton City Commissioner Shenise Turner-Sloss, there's more still ahead following this short break. This is Brick by Brick.
Ame Clase:
Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to the generous support of so many, including Rosmary & Mark Schlachter, The Camden Foundation, Patti & Fred Heldman, DeeDee & Gary West, The Stephen H. Wilder Foundation, Judith & Thomas Thompson, a donation in memory of Frank and Margaret Linhardt, and more. Thank you. We couldn't do this work without you.
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
Hey, it's Hernz Laguerre Jr. One of the team members behind Brick by Brick. Our new show is about solutions for a thriving community, but if you think about it, we all have a different perspective of what a thriving community should look like. That's why we need to hear from you. We want to know what a thriving community looks like to you. Maybe it's more housing, more parks or stores or even safer sidewalks. Whatever your vision, we hope you'll share with us. You can do that by heading to the Brick by Brick Show page on cetconnect.org or thinktv.org. There you'll find an audience question button. Just fill out the survey. And that's it. We look forward to sharing your hopes and dreams with the rest of our neighbors in future episodes. Thank you.
Ann Thompson:
Welcome back to Brick By Brick. I'm Ann Thompson. Let's get back into our conversation with Cincinnati Councilmember Jeff Cramerding and Dayton City Commissioner, Shenise Turner-Sloss, and then Emiko, Hernz and I will be back at the end for some reflections. So these are all great ideas like housing fund connected communities. Some people might say, well, these solutions are going to take forever. How am I going to see housing people who are struggling to find housing? And based on reports we've heard over the years, we're short tens of thousands of units. So what types of housing do you think would make a difference? Would it be single family homes, middle housing, large scale apartment buildings, and what are the challenges to each of those?
Jeff Cramerding:
In Cincinnati, our emphasis is going to be on larger scale, denser developments. Along the corridors, we did pass a transit levee, so our bus system has totally been revamped. It's much more vital, a lot more frequency, a lot more options for people. So we think our corridors have a chance to grow, and we're talking about mixed use housing. That's just an opportunity to really provide, to catalyze and change and revitalize a neighborhood. I mean, we've seen in many neighborhoods, if you get a new restaurant in two, maybe a brewery and housing on top, and it's a new development, people are like this neighborhood's moving in the right direction. And when people feel confident in their neighborhood, they are willing to stay. People are going to move in and people are going to invest. So it's those types of projects that we have seen have the most dramatic impact. I will say that sometimes for people, those are the most scary because they are dense. Some people have got negative perceptions about apartments, renters and large scale developments. So we definitely are going to be overcoming that. That's why in Cincinnati, these first round of model connected communities that we're going to be building are going to be critical. So people can see that their success and say, oh, I want that in my neighborhood.
Ann Thompson:
And what do you think about?
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
I think that is exactly right, Councilman. We're doing this exact same thing. We have seen rather, excuse me, a great deal of investment in our core, in our downtown area. And so now we want to expand that out into the outer ring into our neighborhoods where people are able to have the backyard, where they're able to have the three and four bedroom home with two and a half bath. We know those things are in place as well as making sure that accessibility is addressed. Our senior homes, we've had a great deal of investment in our senior homes that we've been able to provide with various partnerships through our date and recovery dollars, the upper dollars, the federal dollars that we were able to receive. So again, using those various tools and mechanisms, that's just one in our toolbox to address the issues that we're having. But again, just pulling on that thread in reference to the CRA, the community investment areas, expanding those areas and allowing developers and other businesses, whatever have you, to tap into that tax abatement for the 15 years at a hundred percent.
Ann Thompson:
So we've spoken with developers who sometimes get frustrated about all the red tape that they have to jump through. And I'm wondering if the cities need to ease that for developers who say that it's too hard to build with lots of restrictions.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
So that's the excuse of every developer, but you have to have safeguards in place because at the end of the day, our job is to make sure that we are working in the best interest of the residents. And so we cannot negate or ignore the concerns of our residents on behalf of a developer. They want to come in and swallow up all of the parcels, whatever have you, and not meeting the parking variances or the zoning requires, whatever have you. But we have to learn to work together and find that common ground, that compromise so we can address the concerns of the residents of the neighborhood as a whole. But all the while, whole firm too, the developer and their requests. And that's why with a number of our developing agreements, we have claw back clauses that are in place. Say, if you don't do X, Y, and Z, then these are the repercussions that would take place. So again, it's a very delicate balance, if you will. We want to make dates and attractive. We want developers to come into our area, but all the while we have to be firm, but fair, if you will. In terms of how we're doing business with the developers,
Ann Thompson:
What are some of those clauses? What are some examples?
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
So in terms of, I'll give you a prime example. With all of the development that we are seeing in downtown dates Dayton with the arcade, beautiful renovation of a beacon, a staple in our community, in the heart of our economic engine downtown, we were able to have in place a community benefit agreements where there is an agreement with our Dayton Public School district to provide opportunities for employment, internships, externships, whatever have you. We also are looking at fair wages and having those employed and those various clauses, making sure that we have recently we're in conversation right now, and hopefully we'll see that before us making sure we have project labor agreements in place. So looking at those various things to again, hold our developers accountable, but understanding that we are working for the better interests of our businesses, our residents, our laborers, and those who are doing business in the city as a whole.
Ann Thompson:
What about Cincinnati and any red tape that developers complain about?
Jeff Cramerding:
Yeah, I think it is a problem. In Cincinnati, we're fortunate that we have a model in 3CDC, the City Center Development Corporation, which has done tremendous work in Over the Rhine, I mean, it's really been, it would've been unfathomable 20 years ago to think about Over the Rhine and what it looks like today. So 3CDC has done tremendous work. They have had that balance where they've done tremendous development. They have kept the community happy. I mean, it's very difficult and can never keep everybody happy. But 3CDC has done a good job of community relations. They are focused on one neighborhood. So with the city, as we move through this year and talk about economic development and more resources, it's finding a model like that which will be different. This will be working all across the city and can we, working with the partners and tools we've in place like the Port, which is very strong like C, D, E, F, but find that structure where a organization can go into a neighborhood and do some heavy lifting and pull off a project and provide that support, get it done, and then move into the next neighborhood.
So that's going to be a topic and a reoccurring theme in Cincinnati this year.
Ann Thompson:
Let's take a step back and talk about preventing homelessness. Both cities are trying to do it right to counsel is the right for somebody facing eviction to have an attorney. As you know, there is a pilot program underway in Dayton. So how is that going?
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
It's going very well. Thank you for posing that question. And in fact, we just had a work session last week, if you will, the early midweek of October with a number of the partners from Learn to Earn as well as Omega CDC. The list goes on and on in terms of who are all part of it. Blue Meridian was one of the major contributors of philanthropists that contributed to this pilot program as well as Stout, who's doing a number of the research and the data collection, if you will. And now we're at a stage where they are conducting a cost benefit analysis. There will be 125, it sounds very minute at this state in the game, but again, it is a pilot.
You have to start somewhere. You have to start somewhere. So there are 125 families that will be assisted in the northwest quadrant of the city of Dayton. And that area was identified during with the review of the data and the eviction heat map that indicated that 4 5, 4 0, 6 particular zip codes, 0 6 0 5, as well as zero three were areas where we saw an increase in eviction. So again, one of the, if you will, negative rhetoric behind right to Counsel is that everyone's going to have an attorney and there's no defense. Well, there is a process in place. There is a process in place in terms of if you in fact have a defense to receive the counsel that is needed before eviction court. So again, they're identifying the families at this juncture, and the hope is that the pilot is a success so that we can expand those areas.
Ann Thompson:
And it doesn't necessarily mean that people with an attorney are going to be allowed to stay in their home.
Speaker Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Exactly.
Ann Thompson:
But maybe they don't get an eviction on their records.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Exactly. And then we've been able to do something innovative as well with our clerk of courts where there is a eviction still process that we have in place. So they're working in tangent, if you will, together to make sure that they are able to address the issues of the victims.
Ann Thompson:
I know you some mediation too.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
We have mediation as well. Yes.
Ann Thompson:
What's going on in Cincinnati? I know Cincinnati is maybe moving at a little slower of a pace, but there are things that are happening.
Jeff Cramerding:
Oh, absolutely. No, we are putting more money into our eviction prevention every month our capacity grows, including with our partners at UC law. So it's a tremendous program. My colleague, Meeka Owens has been leading on it, and we will continue to lead on it. It's been tremendous and it is so important. Homelessness touches so many people, but I've got school aged children, and when you're in school and kids, their friends disappear in the middle of the year and they're like, where did they go? And it's almost always a result of housing instability or an eviction. So it's critically important. And another thing we've learned is historically Ohio because of state law, I think has been very weak on issues to protect tenants. And that is a reason that some of these very large out of state institutional investors that are often predatory, sought out Ohio as an area to make a lot of money. And in doing so, they created a lot of turnover and created, as I said, sometimes they were predatory and sometimes they took advantage of tenants. So having these protections in place makes Ohio, makes our cities less vulnerable, these types of institutions that sometimes provide substandard housing and substandard living conditions.
Ann Thompson:
And one of them has a big presence in Dayton.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Yes, exactly. I'm glad you touched on that in terms of our state legislators in the state and the preemption of rent controls, as well as what you said to the tenants protections that we don't have in place. So you hit the noll on the head and finding ways and means to combat those barriers that we have across the state.
Ann Thompson:
Some might argue that capital A affordable housing has been left out of the conversation. A quarter of the population in southwest Ohio, I was reading, are severely rent burdened, and that means that people spend more than 50% of their income on housing. How can we encourage more subsidized development? And are you willing to relax the rules and restrictions to streamline city report support for any project that incorporates or qualifies for low income housing tax credit?
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Well, I will tell you, from the state tax credit, we are seeing a change in the scoring and the focus where it is more difficult in the urban core. And so we won't have that ability to utilize with the Ohio Housing Financing Agency. We won't have that ability to tap into the LIHTC, the Low Income Housing Tax Credits any longer because they're changing the formula, they're changing the model of the scoring. So that is something that we're going to have to pivot, if you will, and find other ways and mechanisms on how we're going to address this issue and providing those incentives to our developers in having the various use of income units across the various communities.
Ann Thompson:
That is a challenge. Your thoughts?
Jeff Cramerding:
Yeah, it is a challenge. I agree with the challenges that our federal partners provide. We're going to have to work with them, lobby them, lobby for more flexibility, use some local tools for more flexibility. So that's part of it. And in Cincinnati, we just need to keep in mind that the more housing we build, the more the housing crisis will relax. There are people, again, moving into the city that now have means and they're going to live here. And if we do not create housing for them, they're going to be displacing people. So every new unit we create that's alleviating the problem. To an extent
Ann Thompson:
In Bond Hill, there are going to be a number of apartments that are subsidized going to be built.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
That's great.
Ann Thompson:
That would be one example.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
But you're absolutely correct in terms of lobbying and having those conversations at the federal level, because what we have seen in Dayton is we're looking at a projected 16.9% decrease in our community black grant dollars.
Last year we saw a decrease. There was a nationwide cut of over 200 million that was for home and for CDBG for 2025, we're looking at a $500 million cut nationwide. And so a part of that is because of additional 20 plus communities are now entitlement to these funds. And so as we're looking at the various challenges and getting more properties online, we also have competing forces that we're looking at from the cuts from the state, from the federal, as well as the other tight restrictions that we have in place. When you talk about the tax credits itself from the Ohio Housing Financing Agency,
Ann Thompson:
As we think through this housing crisis, I'm wondering if you guys are looking at other cities and saying like, oh, they're doing it well, and so who are you looking at and what are they doing?
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Pittsburgh, they have a number of models. I would say we cannot talk about housing if we're not talking about equity, wealth distribution. And we talk about the history of redlining and when you are looking at the black and brown community. And so Washington is doing something magnificent in terms of creating a fund, a covenant program they call it. So they can have low interest loans to assist with down payment assistance as well as the first, the purchase price of the home itself. So looking at Washington state of Washington, Pittsburgh, again, as I mentioned, Cleveland is doing some innovative things. Cincinnati is doing some great things. So again, just modeling after various cities and across the country.
Jeff Cramerding:
Minneapolis was a big model when we were looking at connected communities that Minneapolis showed that the changes in zoning can produce new housing. So that was success. We were looking at other cities too, trying to decrease regulation and see who's growing faster than us and why.
Ann Thompson:
I always like to end on a positive. So what gives you hope in Cincinnati and Dayton that we can begin to solve the housing crisis?
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
I would say conversations such as this. A number of people are invested in this conversation, they're invested in this work, and that's exactly what it's going to take. It's going to take work, it's going to take out of the box thinking, and the old way is not necessarily going to be the new way of addressing the issues that we are facing today. There are a number of issues, as we mentioned through this conversation, from mental health, from wage gap that we're experiencing, labor shortages, the housing voucher program, the shortages that we're seeing with that, and just people just don't necessarily have the means to maintain a home. So again, you are starting to look at a whole gamut of issues that we're facing right now, but it is that innovative spirit that you have to have and the ability to have these conversations and the ability to problem solve, right? You can't just have conversation and pass legislation, always say you got to have the programming and funding to go along with it. And so that's exactly what it's going to take.
Ann Thompson:
Councilmember?
Jeff Cramerding:
As far as ending on a positive note, I started at City Hall as a council aide 25 years ago. And just for years and decades, the population of Cincinnati was decreasing. And the theme, the mantra was, Cincinnati is dying, and you went in city hall every week and Cincinnati is dying. How are we going to turn this around? And that didn't start in the nineties. This started in the sixties and seventies. So for 30 years, the city's dying. So we've turned that around and people are moving back into the city, which is a good thing. And I think we as cities have not taken the moment to celebrate that and say, we are turning things around. People are moving back to the city that has created a number of consequences. Housing rents have gone up, home prices have gone up good and bad. I mean, when home prices grow up, that's how many people, many middle class people accumulate wealth, especially black and brown people, and especially union households. So those increased housing values are a good thing, but they also come with increased housing, and they also come with some displacement. So with good things, there are bad things that we're grappling with. So we are dealing with these effects, but overall, we are living in a very fortunate time when people are moving back to the city and we're dealing with the side effects as opposed to trying to turn around cities that were dying. So it's been a very fortunate time to serve on Cincinnati City Council.
Ann Thompson:
Thanks to both of you for being on Brick by Brick, Dayton City Commissioner, Shenise Turner-Sloss and Cincinnati Councilmember Jeff Cramerding. Thanks so much.
Jeff Cramerding:
It was an honor.
Shenise Turner-Sloss:
Thank you. It’s a pleasure.
Ann Thompson:
Remember, if you're interested in watching this conversation with Cincinnati, Councilmember Jeff Cramerding and Dayton City Commissioner Shenise Turner-Sloss, you'll be to find it cetconnect.org or thinktv.org or if you want to learn more about Brick by Brick in general, there are also plenty of web articles and videos online, and you can find videos directly through your TV on the PBS app. And don't forget to keep us honest by sharing your feedback via the big green buttons on our show page. We've come together, again, time to think about the challenges and solutions of both cities. It's time for takeaways with Emiko Moore. She joins us remotely.
Emiko Moore:
Hello
Ann Thompson
And Hernz Laguerre Jr.
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
Hey, everyone.
Ann Thompson:
Hernz, why don't you go first?
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
Well, yeah, Ann, first off, I really enjoyed the cross city exchange that you had with both city leaders. I think it highlighted the importance of conversation and comparison across the country. Commissioner Turner-Sloss, she pointed to the very conversation that you guys were having as something that could lead to more solutions, and both brought up different cities throughout the conversation, whether it was the positive outcomes of zoning in Minneapolis or the low interest loans in Washington, and they brought stuff close to home when they mentioned eviction protection through data analytics in Cincinnati, or the pilot program of Right to Counsel in Dayton. There's no way one city could have or experiment with all these solutions. So I think seeing what works in different cities, maybe cities that's similar to the one that you're in, I think it could allow for people to try different things and see, okay, it worked here and we have similar demographics, so maybe it'll work here as well. And I think if you're able to do that, if we're all able to do that as cities across the country, we'll see exponential solutions happening in cities across the country.
Ann Thompson:
Thanks for that. Emiko, what are your thoughts?
Emiko Moore:
Yes, I agree. And I also think that you can get a better picture of all the challenges and the types of balancing acts that council members and commissioners do in order to adapt to the changing housing needs. You've got expected factors in housing, your housing, stock investment or disinvestment in neighborhoods, but then you also have so many unexpected ones. For example, in Dayton, it was hit by not only Covid, but a 2019 tornado, which took a lot of homes, a loss of manufacturing jobs and predatory lending. These were all big hits. So how well can a city pivot to address these and what makes a city more nimble to solve issues and adapt more quickly are significant? I think cities can learn a lot from each other, and I think we should bring them together a lot more to share ideas and have these kinds of discussions. And one thing that both cities mentioned, the impact of predatory lending, particularly in Ohio because of weaker tenant laws and how this has impacted housing instability and homelessness in both cities.
Ann Thompson:
Good points. Well, I was thinking about capital A, affordable housing and the frustrations that both Councilmember Cramerding and City Commissioner Turner-Sloss had with talking about the red tape and how they needed to think through and lobby people possibly complaining that the low-income housing tax credit was just too complicated, also known as LIHTC. Well, one thing is maybe they needed to look for the right developers. I was wondering if we could use the model of Marjy Stagmeier, who wrote the book, Blighted. We interviewed her for a podcast. She doesn't take subsidies. She raised $12 million to buy Summerdale apartments in Atlanta and found one bank to loan her the money at 2.99%. She says, you have to get the community on board. And that another example, incremental developer, Monte Anderson in Dallas. He doesn't believe in subsidies. We're going to talk to him for a podcast. He partners with some tenants, makes personal loans to others, and teaches them to raise the down payment needed from friends and family at a much smaller level. Thanks for your thoughts, guys.
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
No problem.
Emiko Moore:
Thank you.
Ann Thompson:
That's our show. Thanks again to City Commissioner Turner Schloss and Council Member Kramer for joining us. If you like what you hear, please rate and review our podcast. It helps make it easier to find. We hope you learn something, and if you did, please share it out with your friends and family, maybe even your city leaders or neighborhood organizers. For Hernz Laguerre Jr. and Emiko Moore, I'm Ann Thompson. We'll be back soon with more solutions. Take care.
Our show is produced, hosted an edited by me, Ann Thompson with reporting and story editing from Hernz Laguerre Jr. and Emiko Moore. Our Executive producer of Mark Lammers. Our show consultant is Gloria Skurski. Gabe Wimberly is our audio engineer and mixer. Zach Kramer runs the lights and cameras. Derrick Smith is our production specialist and Jason Garrison is our production manager. Kellie May heads up our marketing and promotions, along with Mike Shea and Bridgett Dillenburger. Elyssa Stefenson handles the website and Steve Wright is our designer. Bill Dean and Andres Kruza are the engineers for the show and our Chief Content Officer is Colin Scianamblo. Our music is from Universal Production Music. Brick by Brick: Solutions for a Thriving Community is a production of CET and ThinkTV, Southwest Ohio PBS member stations.