Tools To Preserve Affordable Housing

The U.S. housing stock is old and getting older and its deterioration is causing health, safety and financial concerns. Saving it is cheaper and more sustainable than building new. But preservation is still expensive. How do we preserve housing before more low-cost rental units are lost? 

Interview guests: Executive Director Ohio Community Development Corporation (CDC) Association Torey Hollingsworth, Dayton Housing Inspection Division Manager James McDaniel, Chairperson Dayton Home Repair Network Aileen Hull, and CMHA CEO Greg Johnson

Brick by Brick Website

• Feedback Survey

Transcript

Ann Thompson:

What's cheaper than building new housing? Preserving what you already have. Dayton is trying to do that, rating the condition of all of its homes.

James McDaniel:

We took a look at it and we said, where do we have the highest concentration of threes? Threes meaning that we had to write them a legal order and we're asking them to repair their property.

Ann Thompson:

Preservation in Southwest Ohio is key because the housing stock here is some of the oldest in the country. In fact, Ohio is number six in the U.S.

Torey Hollingsworth:

If we allow a lot of our existing homes to deteriorate to the point that they're no longer habitable, we're going to be in an even deeper hole than we already are.

Ann Thompson:

But fixing up a place takes money and in some cases outside agencies have to step in to help.

Aileen Hull:

People don't have the income to be able to afford the maintenance that is needed on these houses that are constantly aging.

Ann Thompson:

Public housing also needs to be preserved. Most Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority buildings are 80 years old and CMHA is in the process of renovating dozens of its properties before it's too late.

Greg Johnson:

We need to preserve it because there's just not enough supply.

Ann Thompson:

Today on the pod, preservation. The cost to do it, the cost not to do it, and how it can protect renters in the lowest income brackets. Let's get into it. This is brick by brick Solutions for a thriving community.

Ame Clase:

Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to leading support from Debra and Robert Chavez, Greater Cincinnati Foundation and the George and Margaret McLane Foundation, with additional major support from The AES Ohio Foundation, Laurie Johnston and the Seasongood Good Government Foundation, Diane and Dave Moccia, The Robert and Jean Penny Endowment Fund of The Dayton Foundation, P&G, the Robert & Adelle Schiff Family Foundation, and more. Thank you.

Ann Thompson:

Hello and welcome to Brick by Brick, where we're highlighting solutions for a thriving community in Southwest Ohio. I'm your host Ann Thompson. Much of America's housing stock is old and getting older. The median age of a home now is 41 and of U.S. homes built before 1940, nine percent are considered to be an inadequate condition, meaning loss of repairs needed that same survey using Census data shows Cincinnati 17th with a median housing age of 46 years old. There's an interactive Cincinnati house age map@ctconnect.org and think tv.org. If you're curious and want to explore. If you're looking at the cities with the most homes built before 1940, another study lists Cincinnati eighth amongst smaller cities. Dayton is ranked seventh. Tory Hollingsworth is executive director of the Ohio Community Development Corporation Association.

Torey Hollingsworth:

1940 is usually the dividing line between what is considered more modern housing and historic homes, and we have lot of the homes that fit into that historic category, which often need pretty substantial repairs to continue to be habitable and safe for people to live in.

Ann Thompson:

Many point to preservation is playing a key role in solving the housing crisis. Intervene before a building is too far gone to repair because the cost of preserving affordable housing is just a fraction of building new. According to the National Low Income Housing Coalition, the U.S. lost more than 3 million low cost rental homes between 2012 and 2017. Dayton, like so many other cities, is losing affordable housing. The city is tearing down over 1,000 structures beyond repair. Another 5,000 are on the brink. Dayton is trying to save them. Last year it finished a housing survey inspecting every residential structure in the city limits housing inspection. Division manager James McDaniel was in charge of it. You graded them one to five. What is one, what is five and where did most houses fall?

James McDaniel:

So one to five, one being the best we would say, whereas there's no chipping paint, all the gutters are intact, the roof is intact, all the exterior basically is sound. When you move to five, you're looking at something that was fire damaged. The roof may be collapsed,

Ann Thompson:

Threes might need some paint and the gutters, reattached fours are structural nuisances. The homeowner must decide if they can rehab it or if it has to be torn down. We go to the border of Miami Chapel in Lakeview, where on Randolph Street, two houses did have to be torn down.

James McDaniel:

When you're looking around, you see how it affects the rest of the community in the street. So when we actually do our paperwork, our rating, the structural nuisance legal, we do street scapes. So we actually take pictures of how the street will look and how the neighborhood will look without those properties

Ann Thompson:

And it looks a lot better and I'm sure that the people over here are pretty appreciative of that.

James McDaniel:

Yes, most of 'em come out and they actually thank us for actually demolishing the houses.

Ann Thompson:

McDaniel recognizes tearing down a house is the last resort. Now even though you have a long list of properties that have to be demolished, in some cases somebody comes through and says, Hey, I want to preserve that. I want to fix it up. And you had that in a different neighborhood. 

James McDaniel:

So, we had a property that was actually, we have several on the structural nuisance list and if someone says, Hey, I think that property can be saved and they want to invest in it, they'll show them the steps that they need to take to restore that house.

Ann Thompson:

The Dayton housing survey updated every two to three years, surprised some city leaders. 75% of houses were in sound shape, receiving the highest rating. Repairing a home can be very expensive and that's hard if you don't have the money, but Brick by Brick’s, Emiko Moore discovered one Dayton organization is helping.

Emiko Moore:

79-year-old Barbara Gruber has many memories of the house where she raised her family in the Trotwood neighborhood of Dayton.

Barbara Gruber:

My youngest son was only four months old when we moved here, and I remember that night we forgot to bring the fan because that soothes him at night.

Emiko Moore:

While Gruber worked most of her life at nursing homes and then over 20 years at McDonald's, she could not afford the many repairs her aging house required, including a leaking roof.

Barbara Gruber:

Had big holes in it, and when I knew it was going to rain, I'd get in my buckets and start putting them through my house to catch the rain.

Emiko Moore:

Deferred maintenance over time often has a domino effect with housing.

Barbara Gruber:

My furnace failed completely underneath. It failed completely. I had to get space heaters everywhere and my water froze up. Matter of fact, one space heater failed on me because it had to stay on all the time. I would go in the bedroom, close the bedroom door and stay in there and that's where I lived for one year one winter. This is the ceiling that caved in on me when I was, I was asleep and it had been leaking, but I put things up there to catch it, but it came down in on top of me.

Emiko Moore:

With water leaking. Mold is not far behind.

Barbara Gruber:

The mold was growing in the back. I mean it was thick. I would go and scrape it and it was killing me. I got to where I couldn't walk and I got real weak.

Emiko Moore:

Eventually, Gruber was able to get help from a collaboration of repair groups, which officially formed in the fall of 2023. The Dayton Home Repair Network, which includes County Corps and the City of Dayton, works to provide critical home repairs for those with low to moderate incomes. In Montgomery County, Aileen Hull is the chairperson. 

Aileen Hull:

One of the most important reasons we need to work together is because once you get into a house, you realize the diversity of projects that are needed.

Emiko Moore:

Barry Strayhorn with the Miami Valley Community Action Partnership says the alliance better serves the client.

Barry Strayhorn:

You realize the benefit of leveraging our funding. For example, each program, each organization have different levels that they could commit toward a particular project. Our effort is to have one application, streamline that and just make it an easier process for that client who may already have challenges living in a home are in need of critical repairs.

Emiko Moore:

But for some collaboration required a shift in thinking from competing for funds to sharing resources. David Mauch is the development director with Habitat for Humanity of Greater Dayton.

David Mauch:

I definitely went in with some skepticism, but then once I got a feel for it and got an understanding of what we were trying to achieve together, that's when it all made sense to me and I realized pretty quickly that we could help more people by working together.

Emiko Moore:

Galen Curry, a neighborhood repair specialist for Habitat recalls Barbara Gruber using a walker to get around. When he first came to assess her home,

Galen Curry:

She said, well, we could go faster if you let me hold onto your arm. So I put my arm out, she gets my arm and we go walking. She shows me every place. Six months afterwards, once the roof was put on and the air started clearing up in here, I came back to get some updated pictures and I said, Ms. Gruber, we need to take these pictures again if you don't mind. I stuck my arm out. She hopped right up and took off and I was like, wait, you need, I don't need your arm. Let's go. Come on, keep up. 

Emiko Moore:

Hull sees a strong correlation between poor housing, quality and health.

Aileen Hull:

A lot of people also, it's very interesting, they don't recognize they're dealing with chronic illnesses or they have other things that might not be one-on-one related, but their symptoms are definitely exacerbated by the condition of their home.

Emiko Moore:

If Habitat had not come in to take care of these things, tell us what would be your living condition today.

Barbara Gruber:

I don't think I would have a house and I would be dead. The mold was killing me.

Emiko Moore:

The repairs allow Gruber to age in place in her home and neighborhood of 44 years.

Barbara Gruber:

They gave me a brand new house, practically new ceilings, new furnace, new water heater, new pipes, gave me a new life.

Emiko Moore:

Other cities are starting to take notice of what the Dayton Home Repair Network is doing. Hull as thrilled the group synergy continues to innovate and hopes other cities can do the same.

Aileen Hull:

I will see people in Dayton are, in my experience, super willing to work together, which is fantastic and I've heard that's not normal for cities, so it might be different, but there's at least some of the steps we've taken that can be shared and we want to share. 

Ann Thompson:

This Emiko. This kind of one-stop shop program definitely would make it easier for somebody who needs more than one repair on their home. And who again is eligible and how do they get in contact with the Dayton Home Repair Network?

Emiko Moore:

Well, this program is for low or moderate income households in Montgomery County and they start the process with an eligibility screening so that you'll know if you're eligible before you have to do this whole long process. Their application combines five repair programs, so the applicant has a better chance of receiving assistance by filling out this one application. The network also performs weatherization work such as installation to improve energy efficiency of home in addition to home repairs. And as you know, heating and cooling bills can add up real quickly. Anyone can contact the network by phone at (937) 369-0654 or they also can email the chairperson of the network, Aileen Hull at Aileen, A-I-L-E-E-N dotHull@daytonenergycollaborative.org. We will have this information on our website as well.

Ann Thompson:

Thank you, Emiko. We'll talk to you later in the Takeaways.

Emiko Moore:

Okay, thank you.

Ann Thompson:

The nonprofit People Working Cooperatively is the Cincinnati equivalent of the Dayton Home Repair Network. It receives funding from the city and others to help homeowners make repairs who can't afford them. Every year it's skilled staff and volunteers are in 4,500 homes helping nearly 9,000 people in Southwest Ohio. This translates into more than 8,000 services annually. For eligible homeowners whose typical income is just $14,000 a year. Just like Dayton and so many other cities, Cincinnati is trying to minimize the number of homes it has to demolish. It says over the last nine years there's been a 53% reduction in the total number of buildings ordered to be vacated. Cincinnati wonders if this is a direct correlation to new and revamp city ordinances. The Cincinnati Real Estate Investors Association wants to partner with the city to save more houses. Spokesperson Deborah Collins recognizes the city shouldn't have to shoulder all the burden and wants the opportunity to review Cincinnati rules and regulations. Cincinnati REIA wants the city to make it easier for investors to rehab rundown buildings like what it's done for the port coming up on Brick by brick. The Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority takes steps to shore up its 80-year-old buildings and what if we've trained more people to fix houses and apartments?

Torey Hollingsworth:

We think that this is a really good model and something that the state of Ohio should look at because it does take those two elements, the actual home repairs and the workforce development issue and pushes them together.

Ann Thompson:

Why Pennsylvania may have the answer. Back in a minute.

Ame Clase:

Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to the generous support of so many, including Rosmary & Mark Schlachter, The Camden Foundation, Patti & Fred Heldman, DeeDee & Gary West, The Stephen H. Wilder Foundation, Judith & Thomas Thompson, a donation in memory of Frank and Margaret Linhardt, and more. Thank you. We couldn't do this work without you.

Mark Lammers:

When we talk about thriving in our neighborhoods, I tend to think about sustainability because any improvements we make, we want them to endure. Right? Hi, my name's Mark Lammers and I'm the executive producer for Brick by Brick. And while our team stays focused on exploring and uncovering the next viable solution to what ails us, we're looking to you to help hold us accountable and keep this thing sustainable. And while a donation does go a long way at CET and ThinkTv, in this case, we're just asking for a little time and feedback right now. There's a big green button on our website and a link in the podcast show notes to our audience feedback form. We'd be so grateful if you shared your thoughts about the work we're doing so we can keep improving and connecting solution minded neighbors like yourself with the social responses that will move our cities in the right direction. Your feedback also helps us seek funding to keep this effort going. We appreciate your time and can't wait to hear from someone in every neighborhood. Thank you.

Ann Thompson:

Welcome back to Brick by Brick. The newest public housing units in the U.S. are over 50 years old and the oldest are nearly 90. Preservation is needed, 15% of public housing homes and 4% of units assisted by Section eight failed their 2019 Real Estate Assessment Center inspection. The Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority is taking steps to fix up its units as Brick by Brick’s Hernz Laguerre Jr. explains.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Thanks Ann. CMHA’s re-imagining affordable housing initiative centers on renovating properties they own with the biggest needs for upgrade, the agency hosted two press conferences at two of its properties, one at a single family home in Anderson Township and the other at the Marquette Manor Apartments in the English woods neighborhood. Take a listen.

Missy Knight:

1 2 3 (sound of a sledge hammers trying to break a kitchen counter)

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

CEO of CMHA. Greg Johnson and city leaders brought out the sledge hammers to symbolize a transformation to their subsidized housing.

Greg Johnson:

As you know, we've been working really, really hard as upgrading our offering to residents in Hamilton County and today is another chapter as we march towards $1 billion of renovation in Hamilton County.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

CMHA’s aim is to renovate its entire portfolio to benefit the residents and the surrounding community alike. At the Anderson Township Press conference board president of the Housing Authority, William Miles shared why it's a good idea when housing fits seamlessly into a neighborhood.

William Miles:

The local elected official pretty much gave me what could be my remarks today when just a few minutes ago, she shared with Greg and I that she is a resident of the neighborhood and that she never knew that this was a subsidized housing unit and that's about the best thing we could ever hear.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

The average cost of the construction to renovate the apartments like Marquette Manor is $20 million. Johnson expresses that these types of renovation projects are reliant on public and private partnerships.

Greg Johnson:

When someone's talking about affordable housing, you're talking about tax credit. That's your private partnerships. You have to use those dollars coupled with the public dollars that you have or grants that you get to make sure that the project comes to fruition

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

When you consider the demolition, the refurbishing, the replumbing, and then the temporary moving of residents to other floors while these things are happening and then moving those residents back in. These projects take some time.

Greg Johnson:

All of these are staged with a pretty tight timeline that we're trying to hit. So probably in the next we have 18 months, we try to get it done in 16 and a half or less, and we've been really good at meeting those benchmarks.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

CMHA is hoping to get out front before any of his properties are unsalvageable. The only thing standing in the way of these 80-year-old properties is the money it takes to fix them.

Ann Thompson:

Thanks for that. Hernz. These projects seem like they have lots of steps. Did Greg Johnson say what hurdles they encounter when tackling these projects?

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Yeah, Greg told me it was two things, time and money. When dealing with construction, you can deal with some unforeseen circumstances that may prolong the timeline if you prolong the timeline that increase the cost and Greg described that as volatile costs and you want to make sure you're still on time and you're dealing with partners who understand this and have the resources to accommodate for this increased cost. Also, you want to make sure investors are making back what they invested and you also want to make sure the residents are moving back into their apartments at the right time. So in short, projects like this are tough because you're dealing with multiple deadlines and multiple factors that affect these deadlines.

Ann Thompson:

Yeah, a lot of considerations. Thanks for explaining all that Hearnz. We'll talk to you later in the takeaways. 

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Cool. 

Ann Thompson:

Since 2016, CMHA says it has renovated 10 properties with the hope of continuing with all of the units in the future research estimates, the cost to build and maintain the number of new units equal to those projected to be lost from the federally assisted housing inventory from 2020 to 2025 would be six and a half billion compared to just 4.8 billion to preserve and maintain them for 50 years. Besides the cost, another challenge to preserving old housing stock is the specialized skill to do it, and that can be hard to find. That's why Tory Hollingsworth's nonprofit, the Ohio CDC Association and others are looking to train more contractors.

Torey Hollingsworth:

Most homeowners, even if they're in great physical condition, are not going to be able to replace their own roof. So we're looking at folks with skills in the construction trades. Sometimes those are really skilled construction trades, so things like plumbers, electricians, people who typically have some kind of certification and have some additional schooling or have gone through an apprenticeship to be able to actually do the work. And then there are sometimes even greater requirements when dealing with things like lead.

Ann Thompson:

She and others envision a home repair program that would pair with workforce development. Kind of like what Pennsylvania has been doing for a couple of years. It's called the Whole Home Repair Program.

Torey Hollingsworth:

So the state allocated resources out to counties. Counties then can contract with nonprofit developers or themselves can administer grants to homeowners to do basic repairs, and it also allows for small landlords to actually access loans as well.

Ann Thompson:

The organization Home Matters to Ohio Coalition has been advocating for the 2025-2026 state budget to include funding for home repair and workforce development. It's unclear if this idea will make it into the budget that comes out in June, and if it does, it would roll out in the next year or two. An increasing number of people are seeing the benefits of preservation. It reduces the need for new construction materials, helps maintain a community's identity and heritage and is cost-effective. A 2022 Rutgers study found rehabbing historic buildings, created more jobs and generated more local economic activity than new construction. It also protects naturally occurring affordable housing. That's usually small to medium sized rental buildings over 35 years old and broadly affordable but not subsidized by any federal program. 75% of affordable housing in the US is NOAH or naturally occurring affordable housing. McKinsey & Company suggests states could contribute to preserving NOAH by creating tools and databases that increase the visibility of property preservation opportunities for stakeholders.

And by supporting targeted investment funds that incentivize affordability like the one in Minneapolis St. Paul, it is invested 25 million to preserve more than 1000 units. When considering preservation, cities and counties can ask, is the property located in an area where it's needed and desirable? Is preservation required to retain deep housing subsidies? Is preservation less expensive? How difficult is preservation? To what extent will each option require resident relocation? Will the redeveloped property meet the needs of residents and what happens without preservation? All of this requires a concerted effort from policymakers, developers, and communities. Only four affordable rental homes are available to every 10 extremely low income renter in Ohio. This shortage could increase as homes fall into disrepair. Will there be the political will to fix them? The National Low-Income Housing Coalition says Congress should expand funding to preserve existing affordable housing. And it says cities need to develop preservation strategies both essential to helping to close the affordable housing gap. This is obviously something we've tried to shine a light on in today's episode. Remember, if you want to learn more about preservation, its importance and challenges, there are plenty of resources including web articles, video and audio stories and online extras. Go to Thinktv.org and cetconnect.org, and while you're there, you can click on one of the big green buttons to give some feedback or even share your own housing journey. We'd really like to hear from you. It's time to put a fine point on this preservation episode, and we've gathered the team once again for the takeaways. We say hi to Emiko Moore. 

Emiko Moore:

Hello, Ann 

Ann Thompson:

And Hernz Laguerre Jr.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Hey, everyone.

Ann Thompson:

And as you always do, guys, I really appreciated your contributions for this episode and we can all realize that the US housing stock is older than at any other time in history and something has to be done

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

For sure.

Emiko Moore:

Yes, repairing homes is expensive, but not repairing homes is even more costly and the domino effect happens so quickly. I mean, if you're a homeowner, you know that one unrepaired area can quickly turn into five repairs if you don't take care of it. And if you don't have enough money to pay for your own basic necessities, this kind of repair can turn into a headache really fast.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

A hundred percent. And I think this preservation solution is perfect for a state like Ohio because of the old infrastructure that we have here. According to a study by the Chicago Tribune, Toledo and Akron have 33% of homes that were built before 1940. I know Ann in the pod, you said Dayton was number seven among cities with the most homes built before 1940, they have 37% Cincinnati, 40%. And do you guys know the city in Ohio that has the most amount of homes built before 1940

Ann Thompson:

Cleveland?

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Exactly. Exactly right. Ann. And they have 50% plus of homes built before 1940. 

Ann Thompson:

So Emiko is laughing that I knew this.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

No, yeah.

Emiko Moore:

Yes, that's right. I was impressed. Wow. 

Ann Thompson:

Maybe some research was involved.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

For sure, for sure. But I'll say although we don't know the exact amount of homes amongst these percentages that are either abandoned or about to be abandoned because they're old and stuff, I think it is worth noting that preserving these homes could benefit the community. There's an Ohio University researcher named Brent Lane who studied the village of Chauncey north of Athens and said preserving old homes could be a large economic benefit to the community. New homeowners could save money on cost of homes, property values could increase, and the renovation work could provide local jobs to the community. Like I said, I think Ohio's prime for this solution.

Emiko Moore:

And repairing homes and apartments can be expensive. That's right. I think the Dayton Home Repair Network is on the right track for helping more homeowners because oftentimes a home needs multiple repairs. And the chairperson, Aileen Hull of the network told me that often individual repair groups, they would go into a home, but they would have to walk away because they couldn't fix a furnace, for example, if there was mold in the house and the mold needed to be taken care of first. But that's really an expensive thing to address, and they don't have the funds for that, nor the skill sets for that. So a lot of times those homes, they'd have to walk away, but the beauty of a network is the collaboration. A network can leverage up to five partners in one house, which they've done, and they can really help save a home. I've also attended one of their meetings, they have monthly meetings now, and it's really exciting to kind of watch the interactions that happen. They generate lots of ideas and I think they're going to continue to innovate, so we'll be keeping an eye on them.

Ann Thompson:

Yeah, it's great news. And I know that various national organizations and researchers are trying to elevate the need for preservation because it's so important. For example, Harvard researchers, they just put out a report. You can find a link on our website, and they're continually reviewing the state of housing deterioration and repair programs, understanding the challenges, and producing a set of recommendations for revised national and local policy framework. Thanks for your input, guys.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

No worries.

Emiko Moore:

Thank you. 

Ann Thompson:

And we'd like you to weigh in on this episode and others. Go to our website at cetconnect.org and thinktv.org, and tell us about your housing journey. Coming up on the next episode of Brick by Brick, a solution sidebar with Texas developer Monte Anderson. He's on a mission to transform neighborhoods and he wants to teach others to do it too.

Monte Anderson:

The project is not just the one building. The project is the neighborhood, and that is right. You drive down the street and you see something that's ugly, an old rundown, shopping center, empty buildings, things like that. And those are the opportunities.

Ann Thompson:

How he does it on the next Brick by Brick. 

That's our show. If you like what you hear, please rate and review our podcast. It helps make it easier to find. And don't forget the feedback link in the show notes. We hope you learn something, and if you did, please tell your friends and family about it. For Emiko Moore and Hernz Laguerre Jr. I'm Ann Thompson. We'll be back soon with more solutions. Take care. 

Our show is produced, hosted an edited by me, Ann Thompson with reporting and story editing from Hernz Laguerre Jr. and Emiko Moore. Our Executive producer of Mark Lammers. Our show consultant is Gloria Skurski. Gabe Wimberly is our audio engineer and mixer. Zach Kramer runs the lights and cameras. Derrick Smith is our production specialist and Jason Garrison is our production manager. Kellie May heads up our marketing and promotions, along with Mike Shea and Bridgett Dillenburger. Elyssa Stefenson handles the website and Steve Wright is our designer. Bill Dean and Andres Kruza are the engineers for the show and our Chief Content Officer is Colin Scianamblo. Our music is from Universal Production Music. Brick by Brick: Solutions for a Thriving Community is a production of CET and ThinkTV, Southwest Ohio PBS member stations.