Tiny Homes, Big Ideas

More than half of Americans say they would consider living in a tiny home, defined as large as 600 square feet. As traditional homes get more expensive the interest is increasing. Also, many see tiny homes as a possible solution to homelessness. Local efforts are underway to create villages of them.

Interview guests: Alam Graham, CEO Mobile Loaves & Fishes (Community First Village) in Austin, TX; Juan (John) Perez, Co-Founder and President Vista Village in Columbus, OH; Debbie Watts Robinson, CEO Miami Valley Housing Opportunities; Earl Crossland and Larry Plum, Co-Founders Tiny Homes for Humanity in Cincinnati; Clermont County Commissioner Bonnie Batchler

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Transcript

Ann Thompson:

There are more than 10,000 tiny homes in the US and their numbers are getting bigger. We found this one for sale on YouTube and the owner is promoting its collapsible roof.

Danny:

Welcome to our tiny house. The roof is 17 and a half feet tall stationary, but each roof is on a hinge and then the roof will lay flat for traveling on the road.

Ann Thompson:

How big are they? Not usually that big. Generally they range from a hundred to 600 square feet. That's six times smaller than the average home. One study found more than half of Americans say they would consider living in one.

Earl Crossland:

They can be built less expensively faster. They can be sustainably built so they're energy efficient.

Ann Thompson:

Three local efforts are underway to build tiny home villages for the chronically unhoused. Some get their inspiration from Community First in Austin, Texas. 

Alan Graham:

We are going to have to return back to this type of housing units for people that live in extreme poverty in our country. That's the bottom line,

Ann Thompson:

And local organizers are already thinking about how many more they could help.

Bonnie Batchler:

I'll say it. We want this to be a start. We don't want this to be the end. 

Ann Thompson:

Today on the pod tiny homes, how much they cost, who lives in them and how they can house people who live on the streets, some of them veterans. Let's get into it. This is Brick by Brick Solutions for a thriving community.

Ame Clase:

Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to leading support from AES Ohio Foundation, Greater Cincinnati Foundation and George and Margaret McLane Foundation, with additional support from Laurie F. Johnston,  Murray and Agnes Seasongood Good Government Foundation, The Robert & Adelle Schiff Family Foundation, and more. Thank you.

Ann Thompson:

Hello, and welcome to Brick by Brick, where we're highlighting solutions for a thriving community in southwest Ohio. I'm your host Ann Thompson. Some say the poet Henry David Thoreau built the original tiny house in 1845. It was only 150 square feet. You can see the cabin site at Walden Pond in Concord, Massachusetts where he escaped to live a simpler life. Tiny homes don't have to be that small. They officially can be as large as 600 square feet and as luxurious or as plain as you want them, YouTuber Jenna Kausal built her own tiny home in 2014 and in her series, Tiny House Giant Journey asks why we don't see Tiny homes built by their owners anymore.

Jenna Kausal:

So what has happened to the DIY aspect of the tiny House movement? Well, tiny homes have become more legal and more areas and more companies have decided to produce them.

Ann Thompson:

She says that's good and bad, even though there are more opportunities for people to live in tiny homes. There are a lot of gray areas and legalities related to zoning like parking, and if you built your own tiny home, it may not have the certifications required to park in certain areas and you might find it harder to get insurance. In one episode, she highlights five people who did build their own tiny home, including Macy Miller. She spent just $11,000 including appliances. Here's Jenna again.

Jenna Kausal:

Now, this is one of the reasons tiny homes in the beginning were popular because people could build them extremely cheap and live debt free.

Ann Thompson:

Amazon and Walmart sell tiny homes for less than $16,000, but you have to have land to put it on, build a foundation and account for the cost of plumbing and electricity. Most tiny homes cost about $52,000. That's still 87% less than a traditional home. The top 10 states for tiny homes are in the Northeast and the Northwest for Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Wyoming, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Alaska. Women make up the majority of tiny home residents and their ages vary an equal number between 30 and 50 and 50 plus. In some parts of the world, tiny homes don't require you to have a permit because they are considered vehicles. Many see tiny homes as a possible answer to the affordable housing crisis and as a solution to homelessness, including Alan Graham who started one of the oldest and largest tiny home villages. It's in Austin, Texas.

Alan Graham:

We have 550 homes right now and nearly 500 people are living here. We will add to that over the next several years, 1400 more homes.

Ann Thompson:

In the early 2000s, the CEO of Mobile Loaves and Fishes, which runs Community First Village, began lifting people off the streets and gently used RVs. The organization eventually transitioned to tiny homes. Graham says The biggest challenge for people trying to do this is the not in my Backyard mentality.

Alan Graham:

There are stereotypes and biases that have been perpetrated around men and women that are chronically homeless us that frankly scares people, and so we had to overcome that.

Ann Thompson:

He is overcoming that and making it easier to build is a lack of zoning outside Texas. Municipalities Community First is privately funded and has 127 acres. The previously chronically homeless who live there pay rent that's about 35 to 40% of their income. Community First has enterprise opportunities, allowing residents to work in an organic farming operation and onsite bed and breakfast in a wood shop, a ceramic studio and more. They can stay as long as they want.

Alan Graham:

Anecdotally, we actually settle people pretty profoundly. I mean 85% of the people move in are going to stay with us long-term,

Ann Thompson:

And when they die, the village will inter their ashes carving their name and granite on the property. Unlike Community First permanent housing model, Vista Village in Columbus is transitional housing where residents stay for up to two years before finding their own place. The faith-based Tiny Home Village, which opened in January, is the brainchild of John Perez.

Juan (John) Perez:

We serve five different population groups, including individuals living on the land who want to transition out veterans, people returning to society from incorporation, people in recovery from some type of addiction, kids aging out of foster care.

Ann Thompson:

The 41 tiny homes complete with kitchen, bedroom and bath are on 15 acres and are mostly privately funded. Some community members and businesses are even sponsoring a tiny house.

Juan (John) Perez:

The most warm, heartwarming aspect of it was when we had the first individual move in and we introduced her to the person who had sponsored her house and it was electrifying. I mean, they hugged each other. They were just kept talking and trying to get to know each other better, and the resident was so appreciative to have her own house.

Ann Thompson:

There is also a community center where on the day, brick by Brick interviewed Perez residents were planning a taco dinner. Perez is already thinking about phase two, which will serve single parents also using a tiny home model. Instead of the 420 square feet, like the current ones, the family model would be 660.  UniBilt Custom homes manufactured the Vista Village, tiny modular homes. Just three miles away from UniBilt’s Vandalia Plant north of Dayton is another planned Tiny Home Village, Brick by Brick’s. Emiko Moore checked in with the organizers of the Future Beacon Place Village,

Emiko Moore:

Leading a bold new plan to address the need for stable affordable housing for the homeless. Debbie Watts Robinson, CEO of the Miami Valley Housing Opportunities, also known as MVHO, is working to build a tiny home village in Northeast Dayton.

Debbie Watts Robinson:

So I see this as a cost effective way to be able to provide housing not just for the homeless, but for others. But we're starting out with a preference for people who are really living unsheltered in our Beacon Place Village.

Emiko Moore:

MVHO, which has about 50 buildings in Montgomery County, provides housing mainly for those who are homeless with a disability. Heather Wilson oversees the Street Outreach program.

Heather Wilson:

We are the only agency in Montgomery County that offers street outreach services to the unsheltered population and provides them with that case management and ultimately housing. There's nobody else in this county that does what we do, so we are very unique. Two years ago we saw a 16% increase in the homeless population. Last year that number went down ever so slightly. The 16% increase is the highest we've ever seen ever.

Emiko Moore:

According to the Homeless Solutions Policy Board on a single night in twenty twenty four, six hundred and eighty seven people were in shelters or sleeping unsheltered in Montgomery County.

Debbie Watts Robinson:

It's a whole lot cheaper to help someone stay in the housing that we provide than it is for them to be just out there in the system going to the emergency rooms, you name it, all the things that happens when people don't have a place to live.

Emiko Moore:

Robinson researched other tiny home communities including Community First in Austin, Texas and Vista Village in Columbus, Ohio. Before choosing a local home builder Unibuilt

Debbie Watts Robinson:

The houses themselves. They are about 450 square feet with about 50 square foot on our front porch, okay? They will include a kitchen. They will include a small city area, a bedroom, and a bath. We're also going to have, and we say a very robust community center because we want a place where people can come and provide services to the folks living in the community, and it may even be a place where some of the other folks who are living on the streets still might be able to come in and get some services because we'll have services on site.

Emiko Moore:

The 40 Unit Beacon Place Village would serve different housing needs.

Heather Wilson:

Some

People cannot stay with other people may be due to their mental health diagnoses or whatever the case may be, and then we've got other people that work better in a group, so to speak.

Emiko Moore:

Tenants in the Tiny Home Village would be responsible for paying 30% of their income toward rent. One potential resident could be Keith Monnin, who grew up in Dayton and graduated from Meadowdale High School and went on to earn an associate's degree at Sinclair.

Keith Monnin:

Let me put it this way, when I was a kid, I always asked why, what? Finally said, why don't you reading encyclopedia? Literally, I did read Southern Encyclopedia.

Emiko Moore:

But over the years, his housing journey has taken many turns.

Keith Monnin:

I never say I am homeless because that's a noun. I usually make it a verb or adverb because at some point I know when I'm done with this. It's just this experience. It's a learning experience. That's all it is.

Emiko Moore:

We showed Keith some pictures of the design concept. What are your thoughts on that?

Keith Monnin:

Actually, I think that's a good thing because see, you don't want to, when you're in a multifamily, you just have a small space and that's your space and this way, this is your own space. If I actually have an address, this is my address, and I can say there's a sense of pride in that, whereas before you feel a sense of disconnect, and I think that's what happens when you become in a homeless situation.

Heather Wilson:

We don't want our people isolating themselves in their own units or in their own homes. We want people to have pride in where they're living. We want them to be neighborly. We want this to feel like not only their home but their own community as well,

Emiko Moore:

But to build that vision, they will have to raise several more million dollars. MVHO has secured the property on Needmore Road. The home builder and the construction company, Debbie Watts Robinson says they've raised 3.5 million of the eight to 9 million they need.

Debbie Watts Robinson:

We're very optimistic that we can have this completed within two years. Now, we have to admit as a community, there's always going to be people out there who really don't have anybody, okay, who needs somebody to make sure that they have a safe place to live. So here at NVHL, our vision is a community where everyone has a place they can call home, and that's what drives us every day

Emiko Moore:

For Brick by Brick, this is Emiko Moore in Dayton.

Ann Thompson:

It seems the city of Dayton also believes in what Miami Valley Housing opportunities is trying to do with its Beacon Place Village Development. They, along with the Ohio Department of Mental Health and Addiction Services, as well as the Federal Home Loan Bank of Cincinnati are some of the initial funders. We'll, of course keep an eye on their progress and bring you updates here on the pod or on the web. Plans for a tiny home village are also in the works.

 In Cincinnati, retired architect, Earl Crossland and his friend Larry Plum have launched Tiny Homes for Humanity to help veterans who are unhoused. Right now, they're focused on finding a place to build the village. Plum is talking to The Port and others.

Larry Plum:

The big problem is so much of the land is committed to other uses, and so we're trying to work through that and just talking to other organizations that may have two or three acres that they'd turn loose of, and that's all we need. Once we get that, then we can start expanding into other things.

Ann Thompson:

Crossland hands over a sheet with a long list of names he and Plum have met with already, including the mayor, Hamilton County Commissioner, Denise Driehaus, the Metropolitan Housing Authority, veterans Groups and activists like Kevin Finn, various shelters, habitat for Humanity and others. He says they're all supportive.

Earl Crossland:

So our initial concept or prototype is a 253 square foot tiny home. That's the inside Square footage, and that is based on the city of Cincinnati has a minimum standard for a dwelling of 250 square feet.

Ann Thompson:

Crossland estimates two dozen tiny homes with a 3000 square foot community. Building on two acres would cost about four to $5 million.

Earl Crossland:

Each home would be about $60,000. We're also thinking that this might be developed in phases so that we wouldn't have to do all 25 at once, but that would be the goal.

Ann Thompson:

Crossland and Plum are confident that once the land is identified, the other pieces will fall into place coming up on Brick by Brick. How well do Tiny Home Villages serve the unhoused and why this model seems to work.

Bonnie Batchler:

Well for veterans? I see them moving on finding work and realize there's more to life than the way they've been living

Ann Thompson:

Just ahead. The Claremont County Veterans’ Village planned cottages slightly bigger than a tiny home

Ame Clase:

Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to the generous support of so many, including Diane and Dave Moccia, P & G, The Camden Foundation,  The Stephen H. Wilder Foundation, Rosmary & Mark Schlachter, a donation in memory of Frank and Margaret Linhardt, The A. T. Folger Jr. Lowe Simpson Fund and more. Thank you. We couldn't do this work without you.

Mark Lammers:

Hey, we all have a different story even if we grew up in the same neighborhood or city, especially if we're talking about housing stories. Hi, my name is Mark Lammers, executive producer for Brick by Brick. Growing up, I lived on the west side of Cincinnati in a single family home, but I've also experienced apartment life in good and bad settings in a number of different cities. I learned a lot from those times in my life and from my journey as a whole. Now, we want to hear about your housing story. That's the new audience question that's live on our show pages@thinktv.org and cetconnect.org. Log in and hit the green button to share your journey and what you learned from it. We hope to share some of your experiences and lessons as we move forward on Brick by Brick so we can all get smarter together. Thanks.

Ann Thompson:

Welcome back to Brick by Brick. Portland State University looked at the effectiveness of tiny pod villages as an alternative to shelters for people experiencing homelessness in 2022. Specifically, researchers studied Dignity Village in Portland by doing 80 in-depth interviews and more than 2000 community surveys. Here's what they found. Residents appreciate having a voice in their tiny home community, and this had a huge impact on villager satisfaction. 86% were largely or very satisfied with their pod. Most neighbors who reported concerns about the village at first said they no longer had those concerns. Additionally, villages have disproportionately served white men. Only 17% identify as BIPOC, black, indigenous, and people of color. The people interviewed made some suggestions. They include integrating tiny home villages into emergency preparedness plans and designing villages to better support parents. In a separate study, the A-Mark Foundation funded research by Pepperdine University graduate students to determine the effectiveness of the Village for Vets in Los Angeles.

They found the low barrier to entry housing is essential in helping get some veterans off the streets, and it's preferable to other housing options. In part because of its close proximity to healthcare on the VA campus, the students were unable to get comprehensive funding and budgetary information from the VA and could not conduct an accurate cost analysis. Between 2020 and 2022, there was a 6% decrease in veteran homelessness in LA thanks to efforts like Village for Vets.

A veterans project with cottages is front and center in Clermont County where construction is scheduled for later this year On Veterans Village just outside Felicity. There are over 12,000 veterans living in the county, and about 6% of them are homeless or on the verge of being homeless. Alicia Morlatt is executive director of the Clermont Metropolitan Housing Authority.

Alecia Morlatt:

It is a whole huge community endeavor. It's amazing how Clermont County embraces their veterans and right now, because we don't have a homeless shelter, a stick and brick homeless shelter, a lot of our veterans and homeless in general are basically told we don't have resources here in the county because they're very limited. But you can go to Hamilton County and Boone and Butler County, so a lot of our veterans, while they're not currently living in Claremont County, they want to return to Clermont County, and this is going to allow them a vehicle to do so.

Ann Thompson:

Morlatt explains that honorably discharged veterans facing homelessness and having a physical or mental disability are eligible. They can use HUD-VASH vouchers or Veterans Affairs, supportive housing for homeless veterans to pay rent. County Commissioner Bonnie Batchler has been instrumental in Veterans Village.

Bonnie Batchler:

I've said it many a times. No veteran that has served this country should have to live in conditions like that, and if we can do something that will give them a new start on life, give them a place to live to get their life back together, I think we owe it to 'em.

Ann Thompson:

The furnished cottages on 10 acres in Franklin Township near Felicity are a little bigger than tiny homes at about 700 to 1000 square feet. Economic and community development administrator, Desmond Maaytah explains the reason these houses are a little bigger is to allow for wheelchairs and service animals.

Desmond Maaytah:

The plan is to start with 19 units and get those under construction by the end of the summer. Most of those will be one bedroom units. There will be some two bedroom units, and again, fully furnished units. Internet access, the utilities are included in what the veteran pays.

Ann Thompson:

Veterans Village is walkable to town, but commissioners are looking into getting more public transportation. There are plans for a dog park raised garden beds, even pickleball. One of the biggest advantages will be having a community center with medical care on site. Clermont County funded phase one with ARPA money. The Clermont Metropolitan Housing Authority will own and manage the village plans are already in the works for phase two. There are some limitations for tiny homes, be it a single structure or a village zoning before you build one check to make sure it complies with local ordinances. Some people put these on wheels. In most California counties, tiny homes on wheels are illegal, but one county now allows them, you have to apply for a yearly DMV registration and get proper inspections. Yes, they do cost less than a traditional home, but know that they are going to be more expensive than what you might see on Amazon or at Walmart because you need to take plumbing and electricity into account and build a foundation and the most obvious limitation there is less space. Can you live in one of these or if you're used to having more stuff, something to consider and something we'd like to hear from you about.

Remember, if you want to learn more about tiny homes and other possible housing solutions, there are plenty of resources including web articles, video and audio stories, and online extras. Go to cetconnect.org and thinktv.org, and while you're there, click on one of the big green buttons to tell your own housing journey. We'd really like to hear from you. We welcome to the microphone, Hernz Laguerre Jr.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Hello?

Ann Thompson:

Hey, Hearns.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

What's up?

Ann Thompson:

It's just you and me for the takeaways, Emiko is on assignment.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Okay, cool.

Ann Thompson:

And in terms of Tiny Homes, you heard in this podcast that more than half of Americans say they would live in one of these.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Yeah, you know what? That's not all that surprising. I'm from New York, so although I wasn't familiar with Tiny Homes, I was familiar with tiny apartments. The city's littered with them, and although New York doesn't represent half the population, I think they are very similar. They cover tiny apartments and tiny homes cover about the same square footage, about 400 square feet, and one thing I realized is that you really have to maximize space. Your couch doubles as your bed, your kitchen table doubles as your work table. These are just some examples, but this online newsletter called apartment therapy.com, they really stress that to live in a tiny home, you have to be a minimalist. You can't really store a lot of things. You have to purge so that you can conserve space. There's lots of planning in regards to figuring out bathroom needs, especially for mobile, tiny homes, and also, you got to think about weather conditions. In short, if you're willing to deal with the price of seemingly varied inconveniences to save some money, tiny homes might be for you.

Ann Thompson:

I really like the name of that newsletter. Apartment Therapy.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if I were live in a tiny home, I would need apartment therapy,

Ann Thompson:

But if you lived in one of these tiny homes, you could prioritize things that you need. For an example, one of the TVs showed a woman who liked to cook, and she was like, but you don't think I have a food pantry? Well, I do. And so she carved out a space for that. What's really encouraging is that there are all these tiny home villages popping up, some of them around here, and just because they're in the early stages doesn't mean they're not already thinking about expanding. For example, Vista Village in Columbus, the next phase, phase two, they would like to include single parents, and they're going to make the tiny homes a little bit bigger community first in Texas, they already have 550 tiny homes. They're going to add more than 1400 in the next couple of years. Veterans Village here in Clermont County, they initially wanted to build more than 19. They're starting with 19. That's all they had the funding for, but they're already talking about other phases and tiny homes for humanity here in Cincinnati. They're still looking for the land, but they would like to do 25, so all that. Very encouraging.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Yeah. I wonder if these construction companies are more able to build these homes because they're using less material, so I'm thinking that's less cost for them, and it's more effective to build more of these tiny homes.

Ann Thompson:

Yeah, there's definitely a need.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Yeah.

Ann Thompson:

Then I just briefly wanted to mention that you'll be hosting the next episode, so I'll look forward to that. I know that we will give a short tease.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

For sure. I'll keep the seat warm.

Ann Thompson:

Coming up on the next episode of Brick By Brick…Housing Strategies in Northern Kentucky,

Seth Cutter:

What has the highest likelihood of working here and what will help really put a dent into this estimated 6,600 housing units that we'll need over the next five years?

Ann Thompson:

How will these ideas be utilized throughout the region? That's next time on Brick By Brick. 

That's our show. If you like what you hear, please rate and review our podcast. It makes it easier to find. We hope you learn something, and if you did, please tell your friends and family about it. For Emiko Moore and Hernz Laguerre Jr. I'm Ann Thompson. We'll be back soon with more solutions. Take care. 

Our show is produced, hosted an edited by me, Ann Thompson with reporting and story editing from Hernz Laguerre Jr. and Emiko Moore. Our Executive producer of Mark Lammers. Our show consultant is Gloria Skurski. Gabe Wimberly is our audio engineer and mixer. Zach Kramer runs the lights and cameras. Derrick Smith is our production specialist and Jason Garrison is our production manager. Kellie May heads up our marketing and promotions, along with Mike Shea and Bridgett Dillenburger. Elyssa Stefenson handles the website and Steve Wright is our designer. Bill Dean and Andres Kruza are the engineers for the show and our Chief Content Officer is Colin Scianamblo. Our music is from Universal Production Music. Brick by Brick: Solutions for a Thriving Community is a production of CET and ThinkTV, Southwest Ohio PBS member stations.