Brick by Brick
This regional community affairs program is about exploring solutions to complex problems in Southwest Ohio. This podcast is a companion piece to our larger project. Visit https://www.cetconnect.org/BrickbyBrick/ to learn more.
Brick by Brick
Can Bipartisanship Lead To More Housing On The State Level?
At the current rate of construction, estimates predict it will take seven years to close the housing gap. The U.S. is still short about 4 million units. The problem is hitting home. After more than a decade of inflated home prices, states, including Ohio, are realizing they can enact policies to accelerate the building process. State Representatives Dani Isaacsohn and Adam Mathews talk about it on Brick by Brick.
Interview guests: Ohio Minority Leader Dani Isaacsohn, D-Over-the-Rhine and Rep. Adam Mathews, R-Lebanon, talk about the state’s new pro-housing legislation they got passed.
Please give us your feedback: https://forms.gle/UjrZ1jYdtvRjgKqT9
Ann Thompson:
Ohio doesn't have enough housing and that's driving up the cost of buying and renting
Adam Mathews:
And it is very difficult for any single earner, even your average income earner in Ohio, which is in the $60 to 80,000 range to afford anything there that is a starter home.
Ann Thompson:
Last year, Greater Cincinnati built 4,500 homes, but that's less than half of what it did 25 years earlier.
Dani Isaacsohn:
It is hard to build In some communities. There's onerous regulations. It costs a lot of money. It takes a lot of time. There's hoops you have to jump through.
Ann Thompson:
Local state representatives, Dani Isaacsohn, a Democrat representing District 24, and Adam Mathews, a Republican, representing District 56, are shining a light on the problem. They've worked together to pass new legislation that incentivizes communities to build more housing with the hope prices will fall.
Dani Isaacsohn:
This is something that should not be a partisan issue,
Adam Mathews:
It's a generational issue and we are some of the younger members here. I think this is going to be something we are going to be working on for a long time
Ann Thompson:
Today. A discussion of solutions, finding support on both sides of the aisle. We'll talk about the idea how they got it into the budget and what's still left to be done. Let's get into it. This is Brick by Brick: Solutions for a thriving community.
Ame Clase:
Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to leading support from Greater Cincinnati Foundation, AES Foundation and George and Margaret McLane Foundation, with additional major support from Laurie Johnston, The Robert & Adelle Schiff Family Foundation, Murray and Agnes Seasongood Good Government Foundation and more. Thank you
Ann Thompson:
Hello and welcome to Brick by Brick, where we're highlighting solutions for a thriving community in Southwest Ohio. I'm your host Ann Thompson for the extremely low income. Greater Cincinnati is short an estimated 50,000 rental units. In Dayton it's about 34,000 and statewide it's 264,000. For Ohioans who can afford to buy a house, they're paying at least 50% more since the pandemic, an increasing number of lawmakers are recognizing this is a problem and trying to come up with solutions that includes two Southwest Ohio representatives who work to pass new legislation that incentivizes communities to build by giving them money if they do it. As you'll hear in this discussion, Cincinnati, Lebanon and Xenia were early on the list of interested cities. Ohio House Minority Leader, Dani Isaacsohn, a Democrat representing District 24 in Cincinnati, and State Representative Adam Matthews, a Republican representing District 56, which includes Lebanon and Mason, have a bold idea and join us to talk about it. Welcome to Brick by Brick.
Dani Isaacsohn:
Thanks so much for having us.
Adam Mathewws
Glad to be here.
Ann Thompson:
So guys, how did you join forces on this?
Adam Mathews:
Representative Isaacson came with an idea looking at the red state of Utah, having ways that we could get rid of overly burdensome regulations to allow developers allow municipalities to build more homes and coming together we had been speaking together on different types of policies trying to do what's good for the whole institution of the general assembly as well as Ohio. And this was something that as he's mentioned in other conversations, that we have so many problems in housing that we can have bipartisan solutions before we can even get to the types of ways that we may disagree with one another.
Ann Thompson:
Yeah, and so here at Brick by Brick we talk a lot about the housing crisis. In fact, we know that our greater metro areas are short, tens of thousands of additional units. What do you think are the main reasons that Ohio has been unable to jumpstart a large scale building boom when it comes to houses and apartments? Representative Isaacson,
Dani Isaacsohn:
We spent the two of us at least a year getting to know each other, building a relationship and before we were able to find something that we could sort of sink our teeth into together and really addressing the housing shortage, was that because it is something that should not be a partisan issue, right? Fundamentally we have a supply problem and we have demand either going up in some cities or staying at least constant and supply going down. So by the laws of supply and demand, that is going to increase prices not just for homes that you want to purchase but also for in the rental market. And so what we are trying to do with this bill is really address some of the housing, some supply shortages by making it easier to build, to construct new housing. We should be seeing housing construction everywhere given the shortage and how many families need places to buy their first home, how many seniors need to be able to downsize, how many people graduating in college need a place to rent? And so that is what we really are focused on and in, not just in a bipartisan way and hopefully what is a nonpartisan way.
Ann Thompson:
And Representative Matthews, you yourself noticed and pointed out that maybe in 2024 there were what, a hundred only a homes that were under $300,000 in Warren County.
Adam Mathews:
There were a hundred parcels that were under 200,000, $250,000 for the whole county when there's a quarter million people there. And if you took out just empty lots, there were points and months where there were only a dozen homes for sale and it is very difficult for any single earner, even your average income earner in Ohio, which is in the 60 to 80,000 range to afford anything there that is a starter home and I think median incomes should be able to get a starter home.
Ann Thompson:
Well, let's talk about the plan that you have that could lessen the housing crisis and give us the highlights of your initial plan proposed in April of 2024. What was included? What was it?
Dani Isaacsohn:
So the thing we were really trying to do was incentivize local government, cities, municipalities to update their laws and regulations to make it easier to build because one of the reasons why Ohio has a housing supply shortage, which has led to not just a housing crisis, but it's an affordability crisis, is because it is hard to build. In some communities, there's onerous regulations, it costs a lot of money, it takes a lot of time. There's hoops you have to jump through. It gets approved and it gets taken down. And so what we are really trying to do is use state dollars to incentivize local governments to make it easier to build
Ann Thompson:
Representative Matthews, go ahead
Adam Mathews:
And we went through this way. One because we believe there's communities that are looking to do the right thing, but also recognizing that Ohio is a local control state where you have cities, you have townships that have powers that we cannot tell them what to do, but we can show them what pro-housing policy looks like, that speeding up the permitting process, changing parking requirements, allowing different types of homes so that starter homes are not functionally zoned out, that downsizing is not eliminated because of the only homes that you allow to build in there, but we have to do it with a carrot method so that immunities that do care about their character, that do know what their citizens may want, respond while we also respect the constitution, the traditions that Ohio has.
Ann Thompson:
Representative Isaacsohn, how were you going to pay for this and what was the amount of money that you were hoping to have in a trust fund?
Dani Isaacsohn:
Initially we had some in an ambitious way in the hundreds of millions, which ultimately is I think where we will need to get to if we want to take this crisis seriously that people can't afford to live, they can't afford to rent, they can't afford to buy a home, then we have to have policies that match the level of that crisis. But state laws take a long time to get enacted. It's hard to do things in general. It's even harder when they're across the aisle and bipartisan, but that's how you know it's good work. And so we were very excited to be able to get in a sort of pilot version of this fund at 25 million in this budget, but the hope is that ultimately we'll see so much demand from all over the state that moving forward we'll be able to increase it to where I think ultimately needs to get to.
Ann Thompson:
Representative Matthews, you look like you wanted to say something.
Adam Mathews:
We are looking to have where these funds will come from. The first was going to be leftover funds. Ohio is required to have a balanced budget, constitutionally required to have a balanced budget, and we had some funds left over at the end of the last general assembly. This time we had specific funds with an ask and do want to highlight the work. This wasn't only bipartisan but bicameral. Senator Reynolds over in the Senate did a lot of good work to make sure that this got done in the budget.
Ann Thompson:
So parts of it are included in the budget. What parts made it in and what's the timetable to build more housing?
Dani Isaacsohn:
So we initially structured in our bill where we were really listing out here are the various things that you can do as a municipality to make pro housing policy, right? And there was a menu of options that local governments could choose from for whatever fit them the best, whether it's lot sizes or single or duplex, family zoning or how wide the street has to be in the development. Whatever it was, we listed those in the law. What ended up going into the budget was putting a lot of that more specific policy work onto the department of development for them to determine when people submit for these grants. The department of development then is developing the metrics of what constitutes pro-housing policies as they're scoring the grant submission. So it was really just now it's shifted onto the department versus we were a little more prescriptive in the original bill
Adam Mathews:
And then we also are grateful for the work, why we had these discussions. One thing that got added to the senate amendment and then the final budget that was not in our original bill was making sure that you actually start a development project so that you build homes if you're going to get the funding, which I think is great, especially since some of our requirements are good pro housing policies like making water, sewer hookup cheaper, speeding up permitting, doing housing plans, all of those that you could do, but if you're not going to break ground and build homes, you're not meeting the intent of the legislation. So we're grateful that this is the way we got it done in the budget.
Ann Thompson:
So if I'm a community and I want to tap into some of this money then as you were referencing, there are a list of requirements and maybe Representative Isaacsohn, what are some of those?
Dani Isaacsohn:
So it depends the community, but really it's looking at asking the question what would it make it easier to build housing units in our community? And in some places that's going to mean speeding up the permitting process. In some places it's going to mean if we've already approved a certain type of development, we shouldn't make the exact same type of development go through the exact same process again, a faster approval process. In some places it might be making water and sewer hookups less or reducing the amount of parking that's required for that building. Every community is going to be a little different, but it's asking the question, how can we make it so that it's easier and faster and ultimately less expensive to build more housing here for people to live in.
Ann Thompson:
Representative Matthews, so as you take a look at the list, are there certain ones that you see that have the most value? I guess it does depend on the community.
Adam Mathews:
It does depend on the community because you'll have some rural communities that just need some way to make it easier for people to get a foothold in, and then you'll have some more built out communities where the only homes that they're currently building are $500,000 or more, and where you're looking at that variability is changing the zoning to make sure that the character is protected, but also allowing starter homes to be built.
Ann Thompson:
I do see one limitation and there is a requirement that you get the money. In order to get the money, you have to be near a major economic development project. So does that eliminate some smaller communities or what about that?
Adam Mathews:
The definition for that of being near a major economic opportunity is also has a mileage radius and it hits just about every county in Ohio along the 71/75 corridor as well as some of our energy producing in the southeast Ohio regions. So where people live, even in the more rural areas, it does cover just about everyone.
Ann Thompson:
So Representative Isaacsohn, there are a few other state programs like the Ohio Housing Trust Fund, LIHTC and Development Districts. I wonder how those are working and can they work kind of in collaboration with what you're doing?
Dani Isaacsohn:
The crisis is so vast, there is so much work for us to do in the housing space. Representative Matthews noted this. We like to say there's 10 years of bipartisan agreement before we ever have to disagree on certain things because there's so much work to do and all of those programs are great. I would love to expand a lot of them and they get at different aspects of this, right? A lot of this is supply, but that's not the only way to get at the housing crisis. We also need to deal with the role that private equity plays in a lot of our communities and buying up homes that could be first homes for people to buy and now there are rental units with a landlord who is out of state and doesn't pick up the phone. So there's other levers that we have to look at. How do we look at the lowest income housing? That's where the low income housing tax credit is so critical. That's a different type of intervention. So it's going to take everything we're doing plus a whole lot more for us to really bring costs down for people and expand access to home ownership and rent.
Adam Mathews:
I echo everything he said as well as this is such a large problem. It's not a partisan issue, it's not a bipartisan issue, it's a generational issue and we are some of the younger members here. I think this is going to be something we are going to be working on for a long time because it's going to have to be digging out of this hole to start building these homes and we want people to have a commitment to the American dream and if they believe that they're never going to own a home. Right now, the average age of a first time home buyer is older than I am is 38 years old. People don't feel like they have a piece of the American dream if they can't have a place to go home to and whether that's a workforce issue that you do not have workers if they don't have a place where they can rest their head. You do not have little league coaches if people don't have neighbors and roots and connections and we want to have an Ohio where people can come and actually live here by getting regulations out of the way, incentivizing them to do that. We have a long way to go, but this is a good first step.
Ann Thompson:
We hope you're enjoying our conversation with state representatives, Adam Matthews and Dani Isaacsohn. We'll continue after this short break.
Ame Clase:
Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to the generous support of so many, including Diane and Dave Moccia, P & G, The Camden Foundation, The Stephen H. Wilder Foundation, TJ and Susie Ackermann, Patti and Fred Heldman, a donation in memory of Frank and Margaret Linhardt, and more. Thank you. We couldn't do this work without you.
Mark Lammers:
Hey, we all have a different story even if we grew up in the same neighborhood or city, especially if we're talking about housing stories. Hi, my name is Mark Lammers, executive producer for Brick by Brick. Growing up, I lived on the west side of Cincinnati in a single family home, but I've also experienced apartment life in good and bad settings in a number of different cities. I learned a lot from those times in my life and from my journey as a whole. Now we want to hear about your housing story. That's the new audience question that's live on our show pages at thinktv.org and cetconnect.org. Log in and hit the green button to share your journey and what you learned from it. We hope to share some of your experiences and lessons as we move forward on Brick by Brick so we can all get smarter together. Thanks.
Ann Thompson:
Welcome back to Brick by Brick. I'm Ann Thompson. Let's get back into our conversation with state representatives, Dani Isaacsohn and Adam Matthews and Emiko, Hernz and I will be back at the end for some reflections.
So here at Brick by Brick, we also look nationally and have recognized, reading an article by the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy, that statewide legislation to encourage pro housing policies is really gaining momentum and in not just in blue states, but red states purple. At least 20 states have adopted pro-housing policies aimed at some of the things that you were talking about, changing land use or development processes, removing barriers to housing production points to Florida, Colorado, Montana, Oregon, Massachusetts, and more. So were you looking at some of these examples when crafting this legislation Representative Isaacson?
Dani Isaacsohn:
Yes, absolutely. This is one where we can't afford to let Ohio fall behind any more than we already are. What makes Ohio historically so special is that it's a place where people can feel like they can afford to live a good life, and as soon as that no longer becomes true, and unfortunately it's been going in the wrong direction, we have a problem as a state and so we have to it and it starts with housing. It expands. Obviously there's other major expenses from childcare to food, but at the end of the day, if we can really make progress on addressing the housing affordability and access crisis, I think it goes a long way towards making Ohio more competitive with a lot of the states you mentioned and that's they're trying to address it too because it's not a problem unique to Ohio. The question is who is going to act the most quickly, the most effectively and the most efficiently to try and address it and hopefully this bill helps move us in that direction.
Ann Thompson:
Representative Mathews
Adam Mathews:
We are looking at other states, and as you mentioned, other states are moving in the housing policy realm and if we do not pass legislation, even if we're staying exactly where we are, we are moving backwards. So we have to continue moving forward with legislation like the one that we pass here in the budget and as other states work in this space.
Ann Thompson:
So let's drill down on your plan that has been put in the budget. People might complain like everything takes too long. What's happening now? Our community's already taking advantage of this. What's going on?
Dani Isaacsohn:
This is an example of trying to work as quickly as possible to get this money out into these communities and start this process. So last I heard from the Department of Development, they were hoping to have the grant process rolling by the end of the year, and so that's for this year's allocation and then there's an allocation next year. So the hope is that this happens pretty quickly because it is so important to prove that just because it's a government program doesn't mean it has to go slowly. We can have a government that runs efficiently and effectively
Adam Mathews:
Through the grant getting up and running. We'll also have rules going through our joint committee on agency rule review that is moving forward as well and scheduled to be up and we've already had different cities around southwest Ohio reach out to us. I've had representatives from Xenia that have reached out. I know Lebanon's reached out. I don't know if anyone your way has,
Dani Isaacsohn:
I'm meeting with the City of Cincinnati today.
Adam Mathews:
And so we have cities, municipalities that are ready to take advantage of this and hit the ground running once we provide it in front of them.
Ann Thompson:
As people have noted, you guys are working together and you've been able to find common ground, what is your ultimate hope about how bipartisanship can get us through the housing crisis?
Dani Isaacsohn:
We have to think bigger than just the housing crisis. The housing crisis is a great example that when you actually talk to people about what is keeping them up at night that they can't afford the rent or they'll never be able to buy a house, and you ask them, how could we help address that issue for you? The answers they give are not usually partisan or political, and we need more politicians in partisan roles to recognize that to actually meaningfully impact people's lives to improve the things they say they need improving. The only way to really get it done is across the aisle and the only way to get it done is in a way that doesn't put politics first, but puts people first and then you figure out the politics afterwards. And so that's really what we've been focused in housing, but there's more opportunities in health and education and transportation and childcare. There's a ton of opportunity to really focus on here's what people say they need and let's start there.
Adam Mathews:
Part is being firm and confident in what you believe. There's many things that reprise and believes that I do not, and we respect that and work together on the things that we do. 92% of the legislation we pass so far this year has been bipartisan and working through that 8% obviously does happen. Elections matter, but elections also matter. For those that want to serve the institution, that want to serve in a way that gets legislation, gets what things done that you can't really put on a mailer because it's just helping people in not a flashy way, trying to move the ball forward, trying to work across the aisle, try to solve these larger problems that are bigger than partisanship.
Ann Thompson:
And are there other bills, you mentioned health and other topics that you too might get together on?
Adam Mathews:
Right. Right now he and I are working on a bill in front of the judiciary committee on working on very small changes to the Uniform Commercial code. It is treating, I think crypto as something for tangible personal property for contracts, and again, this is something that does not have a partisan valence but does help people that are working in this space just like developers, just like homeowners to get things done so we can make Ohio better
Ann Thompson:
And as we try to make Ohio better. What does a thriving community look like to both of you? As we wrap out the interview,
Adam Mathews:
Lebanon in Ohio,
Dani Isaacsohn:
I think we can get back to basics on here, and this is what I think most people want out of our politics. I don't think you would ask the average person that they're feeling great about the state of politics at the moment and on either side, and so I think part of, because we've gotten away from what does make a thriving community, the ability to raise a family, send your kids to great schools that you are not paying for, that you feel safe when they're at school and when they're on their way to and from school in the neighborhood, that you can grow old and afford to grow older in a place where if you have to go into different types of care, you can get it or you can keep your home or sell your home. That when you have kids, you can afford childcare so you can go to work and know that they're getting great early childhood education rate. It's about every stage of life, feeling safe, secure, and that you have an access to opportunity for something better for the next generation. That's a thriving community. It's the type of community that people want to move to. It's why my parents moved to Ohio when I was two years old and have been here ever since because that's historically what Ohio has been able to provide and hopefully can get back there.
Ann Thompson:
Well, thank you Representative Isaacsohn and Representative Matthews for being on Brick by Brick.
Dani Isaacsohn:
Thank you so much.
Adam Mathews:
Thank you.
Ann Thompson:
Remember, if you're interested in digging deeper into our conversation with representatives Adam Matthews and Dani Isaacsohn, want to learn more about Brick by Brick in general or share your own housing story? There are plenty of resources including big green feedback, buttons, web articles and videos. Go to cetconnect.org and thinktv.org.
Some bold policies here, team. Time for takeaways, wonder what you think, and we'll find out what you think. We say hi to Hernz Laguerre Jr.
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
Hello
Ann Thompson:
And welcome, Emiko Moore to the microphone.
Emiko Moore:
Hello.
Ann Thompson:
Emiko, what are your thoughts?
Emiko Moore:
Well, I really liked when Representative Isaacsohn said we need to put people first over politics, and that these two representatives are reaching across the aisle to work together to help Ohioans afford something as basic as housing, which is not affordable as we know for many. They both discussed that there are many layers to this lack of housing supply, which is driving up the cost, so let's hope they continue to get this conversation moving and find solutions to lower housing costs and rents.
Ann Thompson:
Hernz?
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
Yeah. To that point,, I think it was encouraging to see state rep Dani Isaacsohn and Adam Matthews acknowledge the seemingly unnecessary obstacles in creating housing. Seeing them both work on ways to build faster by eliminating the redundancies that normally delay the process looks promising.
Ann Thompson:
At least 20 states have adopted pro-housing policies aimed at changing land use or development processes to remove barriers to housing production, including Florida, Colorado, Montana, Oregon, Massachusetts, and more A broad mix of Red, blue and purple states and author Leah Rothstein who writes and speaks about housing and racial equity, who we interviewed for Brick By Brick. She says she's encouraged that these states through bipartisanship are enacting housing reforms, and recently she and dozens of businesses and nonprofits signed what is called Principles for Enhancing Housing Availability and Affordability. It calls for getting rid of inflexible mandates among other things.
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
Yeah, hopefully this is a trend that continues because there's no reason why folks on both sides of the aisle can join together to help create some movement, create some solutions that will help all the constituents, especially if it's affecting everyone.
Emiko Moore:
Absolutely.
Ann Thompson:
Thanks for your thoughts, guys.
Hernz Laguerre Jr.:
No problem.
Emiko Moore:
Thank you.
Ann Thompson:
Coming up on the next Brick by Brick Medical access on the decline.
Sarah Jane Tribble:
There's hospitals that are already financially at risk in rural Ohio across the country. When you see cutbacks in foundational payment programs like Medicaid, what happens is people lose coverage and then those providers shut down or they close down services.
Ann Thompson:
We'll take a look at possible solutions designed to increase medical access, including workforce training and school partnerships on the next Brick by Brick.
That's our show. If you like what you heard, please rate and review our podcast, and if you have ideas for people we should interview on housing, health or environmental topics you want us to investigate, please let us know at Brick By brick@publicmediaconnect.org. We hope you learned something, and if you did, please share it with your friends and family For Emiko Moore and Hernz Laguerre Jr. I'm Ann Thompson. We'll be back soon with more solutions. Take care.
Our show is produced, hosted an edited by me, Ann Thompson with reporting and story editing from Hernz Laguerre Jr. and Emiko Moore. Our Executive producer of Mark Lammers. Audio sweetening provided by Mike Schwartz. Zach Kramer runs the lights and cameras. Derrick Smith is our production specialist and Jason Garrison is our production manager. Kellie May heads up our marketing and promotions, along with Mike Shea and Bridgett Dillenburger. Elyssa Stefenson handles the website and Josh Lusby and Steve Wright are our designers. Bill Dean and Andres Kruza are the engineers for the show and our Chief Content Officer is Colin Scianamblo. Our music is from Universal Production Music. Brick by Brick: Solutions for a Thriving Community is a production of CET and ThinkTV, Southwest Ohio PBS member stations.