Solutions Sidebar – A Housing Hand-Up for the Formerly Incarcerated

For people with criminal records, research shows stable housing reduces their likelihood of committing another crime. However, hundreds of state and federal laws create barriers for people who want to obtain affordable stable housing. Ohio and a handful of other states want to change that and are offering a kind of guarantee to landlords.

Interview guests: Ohio Justice & Policy Center Director of the Second Chance Project Lindsey Baruffa; Second Chance staff attorney Ashley Ward.

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Transcript

Ann Thompson:

People recently released from prison often need a leg up to find housing.

Ashley Ward:

Research shows that stable housing reduces their recidivism or their likelihood to commit another offense, but there's hundreds of laws both Ohio and Federal that create barriers to people obtaining and affording stable housing.

Ann Thompson:

The nonprofit Ohio Justice and Policy Center recognizes that and help get special legislation passed.

Lindsay Baruffa:

We want there to be no barriers for people with criminal records, and this is a step in the right direction.

Ann Thompson:

We're just now starting to see change locally across Ohio and nationwide, but the Ohio Justice and Policy Center is not stopping there focusing on other measures that could help.

Ashley Ward:

We don't want it to just be limited to tenants. We do want to see people with criminal records to become home owners to increase our housing stability

Ann Thompson:

On this solution sidebar episode, we look at the importance of finding housing for Second Chance citizens, the importance for them and for a society as they get back on their feet. Let's get into it. This is Brick by Brick Solutions for a thriving community.

Ame Clase:

Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to leading support from Greater Cincinnati Foundation, AES Foundation and George and Margaret McLane Foundation, with additional major support from Laurie    Johnston, The Robert & Adelle Schiff Family Foundation, Murray and Agnes Seasongood Good Government Foundation and more. Thank you

Ann Thompson:

Hello and welcome to Brick by Brick, where we're highlighting solutions for a thriving community in southwest Ohio. I'm your host Ann Thompson. As we told you in an earlier episode, every year in Ohio, 18,000 people are released from Ohio Prisons in another 75,000 annually from county and municipal jails. That's a lot of housing needed. The Ohio Justice and Policy Center is playing a key role. The nonprofit does a lot, but one thing is innovative policy reform, which we're going to hear about from the director of the Second Chance Project, Lindsey Baruffa and Second Chance staff attorney Ashley Ward. Welcome both of you.

Ashley Ward:

Yeah, thank you.

Ann Thompson:

Ashley, let's start with you. People being released from prison face a lot of housing hurdles. What are they?

Ashley Ward:

Yeah, like you mentioned the statistics. One in 11, adult Ohioans have a felony conviction. One in six Ohioans have a conviction of some sort, and one in three Ohioans have a record of some kind. So for people with criminal records, research shows that stable housing reduces their recidivism or their likelihood to commit another offense, but there's hundreds of laws both Ohio and Federal that create barriers to people obtaining and affording stable housing. In addition, we already have an affordable housing shortage, but even people with criminal charges, even a conviction, face barriers to finding housing. We've had clients who've been evicted just because they received a charge for a misdemeanor, but while people are in prison, sometimes they have to find housing and secure housing before they are found suitable for release by the parole board. But it is extremely difficult for them to find housing while they are incarcerated, especially if they don't have family willing or able to house them. Some people even release from prison and jail without housing and they end up becoming homeless.

Ann Thompson:

Yeah, that's quite understandable because how are you supposed to line up housing when you're in prison and what are you supposed to tell the landlord? Well, from the landlord's perspective, Lindsay, what are some of their concerns?

Lindsay Baruffa:

Landlords have concerns every time they bring on a new tenant, there is always a risk. Is the tenant going to be a good tenant? Is the tenant going to pay the rent? Is the new tenant going to damage the property? So they're worried about all of these issues, and they're also worried about liability. They're worried that if they rent to someone who causes harm, they may be liable for renting the property to that person. However, in 2019, Wilder research concluded that conviction history is not a predictor of negative housing outcomes. It's just simply not a good method of determining whether someone is going to be a good tenant or not. People with criminal records can be good responsible tenants, but some housing providers just aren't willing to trust the tenant's word because they want to protect themselves, and that's completely understandable. They want to protect themselves, their tenants, their business. They want proof that someone will be a good tenant. That's where the CQH comes in.

Ann Thompson:

Well, the CQH is something that can help with that. You guys fought for this. How did you convince lawmakers to pass the CQH and where did the idea come from, Ashley?

Ashley Ward:

Yeah, so the CQH, first of all is a certificate of qualification for housing or A CQH for short. It's a court order recognizing that a person impacted by the criminal legal system is rehabilitated, is fit for housing opportunities and has a need to overcome housing barriers. So one of the reasons why it was able to get passed is because it has benefits for the tenant, but also for housing providers. It helps minimize the risk of housing providers. It can limit the liability for negligent leasing. So the housing provider can't be held responsible if something were to go wrong on the property, and there are no disqualifying offenses. So anyone can apply for this certificate regardless of what their offense is. They just have to have a waiting period. So back in 2022, former representative bill sites union representative Latina Humphrey, recognized there was a need in Ohio for housing relief for people with criminal records, and they approached OJPC asking for feedback on the bill.

Former representative Sietz had helped with the employment counterpart CQE bill in 2012, so they wanted to mirror that relief for housing. So OJPC, we helped provide feedback on best practices, what other states were doing and how to best do it in Ohio. We were able to help convince lawmakers to pass this because there is no other law in Ohio specifically geared to overcoming housing barriers for people with criminal records. And this is just a one step forward. The record's still going to be there at the end of the day. It doesn't expunge or seal the record, but it does provide benefits for the tenants and the housing providers.

Ann Thompson:

I know that it took a while for this to get going. Ashley, how many have been filed so far and do you know, have there been in any in Hamilton, Montgomery, or surrounding counties?

Ashley Ward:

Yeah, so CQH became effective in September of 2024, but just recently last year summer, the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction finally published the application process and the administrative code rules. So OJPC has helped file one in Hamilton County so far, and in counting, we have no numbers on how many have been filed in the state because the statute doesn't require data to be kept. So we're unsure of how many in total, but I know there's been at least one granted in the state.

Ann Thompson:

We hope you're learning a lot from the conversation with Lindsay Baruffa, Ashley Ward of the Ohio Justice and Policy Center. We'll continue in just a moment.

Ame Clase:

Brick by Brick is made possible thanks to the generous support of so many, including Diane and Dave Moccia, P & G, The Camden Foundation,  The Stephen H. Wilder Foundation, TJ and Susie Ackermann, Patti and Fred Heldman, a donation in memory of Frank and Margaret Linhardt, and more. Thank you. We couldn't do this work without you.

Ann Thompson:

Welcome back to Brick by Brick. Now more with Lindsey Barfa and Ashley Ward with the Ohio Justice and Policy Center on efforts to get people recently released from prison help when it comes to housing. Montgomery County is one of a handful of cities and counties that are working with New York University's fur and Center in a pilot program where experts will help gather the necessary data and identify the partnerships needed to achieve their goals. And then the phase two of the program that was launched in 2025 in the spring last year, the center in the lab will help each team create things like a community court and navigation systems to help individuals transitioning locate housing. And then in a previous episode, we interviewed somebody from Toledo and they're doing something kind of unique. They were trying to get a master leasing program off the ground. It's a renovated house where the landlord holds the lease and then brings about four recently released inmates into their own bedroom and they would share a common space with other justice impacted tenants. So I'm wondering what are some good examples around the state of counties doing things?

Ashley Ward:

Yeah, I think the master leasing program is a great example. A lot of different counties are implementing this program because it does minimize risk on housing providers just like the CQH, but transitional housing and halfway houses are also great housing support for people being released from prison, but they still need to secure housing after the transitional housing is complete Housing. Returning home Ohio with a corporation for Supportive housing is another great program with lots of success stories because they're providing supportive housing services and it doesn't necessarily have a time limit. So there's a lot of great success stories happening in Ohio. We just need the resources to extend them long-term increase eligibility and just have more funding so we can expand the success.

Ann Thompson:

So Lindsey, what are other states doing? Are they, do they have forms of the CQH and how is it working? Do you know?

Lindsay Baruffa:

Other states are doing something similar, but it's a little bit different. For example, Colorado, Illinois, New Mexico and Vermont have similar certificates, but they're not limited just to housing relief. They also provide relief for employment education and even public benefits. In some states, Ohio is a little bit different because the CQH is based on the previously passed CQE certificate of qualification for employment law more than it's based on these certificates in other states. So we don't know a lot about how well this is working in other states because they're all still new. So like Ohio, CQE and CQH, we really need to review these policies every few years to check in on their effectiveness.

Ann Thompson:

Ashley, another goal of yours is to make it easier for a client to buy a house. How is that effort going and are you able to get bank partners on board?

Ashley Ward:

Yes. The CQH is specifically designed to help tenants, and the limited liability is only for housing providers leasing. However, I would like to see it be used as evidence of rehabilitation for people with criminal records to get approved for mortgage loans as evidence of them being able to pay back their loans. It wouldn't provide them any limited liability, but it would just be more evidence that they were going to be a good homeowner, they are fit, they're all going to move forward. So we are definitely working hard to get more partners on board with this so we can expand the CQH. We don't want it to just be limited to tenants. We do want to see people with criminal records to become home owners to increase their housing stability.

Ann Thompson:

So it sounds like that is still in the early stages.

Ashley Ward:

Yes, we are still working on that. The work never ends.

Ann Thompson:

All right. Well, there are states that make people with criminal histories a protected class. Could that ever happen in Ohio? And what would it take either Ashley or Lindsay?

Ashley Ward:

Yeah, I think it's possible in Ohio. It would take us to continue educating people, especially lawmakers about the benefits of leasing to people with criminal records. There are financial benefits to the housing providers. People with criminal records can be good tenants. So we need to make sure that we properly, we make people aware of what is actually happening and we reduce the risk and liability of housing providers, so they are willing to get on board. We also need to make sure we have the ability to enforce the anti-discrimination law if we were to get this passed, because there's going to be a cost to investigate any potential discrimination and to litigate.

Ann Thompson:

So that could be sometime down the road, if at all, in Ohio?

Ashley Ward:

Yes, it would definitely take more time. But OJPC, we're definitely working towards different policies that are going to be effective. We don't just want to stick to one policy. We want to make sure, well, we do have work, so we're always open to exploring new policies.

Ann Thompson:

Let's go back to talk about the CQH for a minute. So I know there was one here in Hamilton County, I don't know if you know this or not, but I was just wondering what the reaction of the former inmate was who got this, or if you've talked to others who have been on the receiving end, and I'm sure that they are glad that they got this and are hoping for the best.

Ashley Ward:

Yeah, I haven't talked to anyone who's been granted one yet. I've only helped someone apply and we're still waiting for the court process to finish. But even the clients I'm helping apply, they are extremely excited about the promise of a better future. They have had to accept inhabitable housing. They've been forced to work with housing providers who are always the best towards them or make them pay more for the security deposit. They might be forced to accept housing that is re-traumatizing to them. They just want to become tenants just like everyone else and be able to have a choice of where they can live and not just accept whatever accepts. So they're very excited about the potentials and even hoping to be able to use this in the future to become a homeowner.

Ann Thompson:

Lindsay, what would you tell landlords who are becoming familiar with the CQH? What are they responsible for if they have a tenant that has one of these, if they get into a fight with a neighbor, what are they liable for?

Lindsay Baruffa:

The CQH is great because it reduces the property owner's liability in the case that the tenant with A CQH does anything that might otherwise make the property owner liable. So as long as they know about the CQH and accepted the tenants, it means that any action the tenant does while on their property, the landlord will not be liable for. I think that is really something we need to educate property owners about because it's a great benefit to them.

Ann Thompson:

And also, Lindsay, what do you see in the future and what gives you hope?

Lindsay Baruffa:

I think the fact that we're having this conversation gives me hope. Our goal at the Ohio Justice and Policy Center is to work ourselves out of a job. We want there to be no barriers for people with criminal records, and this is a step in the right direction. And this is a sign that members of the General Assembly saw there was a need among their constituents to find housing upon reentry. And because they reached out to us, it shows they're willing to collaborate with subject matter experts. I think that is a really wonderful thing. I get a lot of hope just from working in this space, recognizing the humanity of people who have been involved in the criminal justice system in the past. And I think it's really great that we have the CQH in place because it really recognizes the statistical reality that people with criminal records are not worse tenants than the general public, and that this will provide an economic benefit to property owners in Ohio

Ann Thompson:

And they can be contributing members to the community.

Lindsay Baruffa:

Absolutely.

Ann Thompson:

Well, Lindsey Bafurffa and Ashley Ward of the Ohio Justice and Policy Center, thanks for being on Brick by Brick. 

Lindsay Baruffa:

Thank you for having us.

Ashley Ward:

Thank you.

Ann Thompson:

You can dig deeper into this conversation at cetetconnect.org and thinktv.org. That's where you'll also find links to the Ohio Justice and Policy Center and others, and you can explore a variety of topics on housing, health and the environment. It's important to acknowledge that people with criminal records sometimes need help in getting back on their feet. It's time for takeaways, and we introduce the team, Emiko Moore.

Emiko Moore:

Hello

Ann Thompson:

Multimedia journalist should have said, and multimedia journalist Hernz Laguerre Jr..

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Hey everyone.

Ann Thompson:

So as we go through our thought process, I wanted to mention that a big part, as you heard of the interview, what we were talking about with the Ohio Justice and Policy Center was the CQH or certificate of qualification for housing. Again, that is something that somebody being recently released from prison can apply to. There is a waiting period, but it is in a sense, protecting the landlord from any lawsuits that they could face by having somebody rent their apartment. And we don't know how effective it is because it's too early to study it. There's just not enough people who have this. So I looked at something else that Ohio has called the CQE or a certificate of qualification for employment. This was something that Ohio passed in 2012, and there've been nearly 2000 people who have received it, including almost 200 in Hamilton County.

And just like the CQH, it acts as a rehabilitation certificate for recently released inmates and offers protection, in this case, to employers against negligent hiring lawsuits. And as I look through a number of studies on the CQE that all focus on Ohio, because apparently Ohio is the only state that has a formal CQE, although other states might have similar policies. The most recent findings by a researcher in 2019 looked at people who had multiple convictions of varying crime types, basically drug and theft and applicants with A CQE, the study finds received significantly fewer callbacks than those with no records. Then other findings include when both were called back, they called the person with no record most of the time, and African-American applicants received significantly fewer callbacks than white applicants in all criminal record categories. In addition to those difficulties. Other barriers include costs. There are court costs, 50 to a hundred dollars and navigating the legal process. And as we mentioned, a waiting period.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Yeah, this conversation about CQH reminds me of a mention in the book Just Action by Leah and Richard Rothstein about how there was a study done in Columbus, Ohio with landlords, and it showed that landlords were more willing to offer an apartment to those with a rehabilitation certificate than those who were former inmates and they didn't have one. And I think it just shows there's the real issue is willingness, willingness to really accept someone with that record, with that history and how to incorporate them into a system. But the one thing I want to point out is the waiting period with the CQH, we see that there's a one year waiting period for those with felonies and a six month waiting period for those with misdemeanors those first couple of months after you leave prison. It's so critical to see whether or not you can land back on your feet and not fall under recidivism and going back into jail. So I wonder, what does the system expect for inmates to do during that waiting period?

Ann Thompson:

Well, you might be relying on your relatives

Ann Thompson:

If they'll take you back.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

Yeah, that's assuming that people have relatives and there are relatives living locations that weren't the reason for them going to jail in the first place. You know what I mean? There's so many factors that are unknown, but that waiting period, I don't see how that's really effective for these certificates actually work.

Ann Thompson:

Yeah, there might be some tweaks that need to be made. Emiko? 

Emiko Moore:

Right? And we know that stable housing reduces the rate of recidivism for many of these people, and the correlation between the rate of homelessness for those who've been incarcerated is 10 times higher than the general public. So we're putting this really at risk vulnerable population for a year. If we're making them wait, we're making it even a little bit harder. And it does seem that there needs to be some kind of clear pathway for those coming out of jail, like in order the steps for getting stable housing, stable employment with livable wages and a stable path to new job skills because you might not have any of these things. So you're coming out, you're going to need that support system to of really get you going. I am hopeful to see about this pilot program with Montgomery County and a handful of other cities and counties that New York University Furman Center is doing, where they're gathering the data to identify the partnerships needed to help these achieve this kind of thing. Because I don't think it's just one thing. I think it's multiple factors that are going to be involved.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

And then I think also what does it say about our criminal justice system that when people are released back into society that there's a lack of trust, right? Isn't jail supposed to be a moment for rehabilitation in the first place and going back to the whole waiting period thing in the book, just action. They show that Vermont has an even longer waiting period about five years for someone to get a rehabilitation certificate. So once again, reissuing the question of what do they do during the meantime and stuff, but if we expect our returning citizens to be a part of our thriving community, I think we need to give them more of a bridge to make it actually possible for them to have access to the house and jobs and all that stuff.

Ann Thompson:

Yeah, I like your optimism. 

Emiko Moore:

There is an organization in Dayton, I don't know a lot about it, but I did see it's called X Factor, and it's about helping returning citizens feel purposeful and productive as members of the community. And they do volunteer work in the community, but they also get other life skills and job skills that help them kind of give a little bit more of that holistic approach that might be needed.

Ann Thompson:

It'll be interesting to see how Ohio's CQH progresses and if other states pick up on it, and if any changes need to be made to it. Thanks for your thoughts, guys.

Hernz Laguerre Jr.:

No problem.

Emiko Moore:

Thanks

Ann Thompson:

Thank you. Coming up on the next Brick by Brick infant mortality, Hamilton County had one of the highest rates in the nation a decade ago, but is figuring out ways to dramatically bring that number down.

Dr. Elizabeth Kelly:

All these people that came together started saying, how can we deliver social support, social care, address social determinants for pregnant women, and get those together with the medical drivers?

Ann Thompson:

The idea behind Cradle Cincinnati has been expanded statewide, and Dayton is also drilling down on more doulas that's on the next Brick by Brick. 

That's our show. If you like what you heard, please rate and review our podcast. It helps make finding the pod a little easier. We hope you learn something about what justice impacted people need and options available to them. And if you did, please share it with your friends and family. For Emiko Moore and Hernz Laguerre Jr., I'm Ann Thompson. We'll be back soon with more solutions. Take care. 

Our show is produced, hosted an edited by me, Ann Thompson with reporting and story editing from Hernz Laguerre Jr. and Emiko Moore. Our Executive producer of Mark Lammers. Audio sweetening provided by Mike Schwartz. Zach Kramer runs the lights and cameras. Derrick Smith is our production specialist and Jason Garrison is our production manager. Kellie May heads up our marketing and promotions, along with Mike Shea and Bridgett Dillenburger. Elyssa Stefenson handles the website and Josh Lusby and Steve Wright are our designers. Bill Dean and Andres Kruza are the engineers for the show and our Chief Content Officer is Colin Scianamblo. Our music is from Universal Production Music. Brick by Brick: Solutions for a Thriving Community is a production of CET and ThinkTV, Southwest Ohio PBS member stations.