When Punishment Outlasts the Crime: Tyreem Rivers’ Story

In this powerful episode, Tyreem Rivers, who has spent 30 years behind bars for a second-degree felony murder conviction, shares his journey from a troubled youth to a hopeful future defined by helping others.

At just 18, Tyreem was convicted of second-degree felony murder following a purse snatching that resulted in an elderly woman’s death. What’s staggering is that the fatal outcome was linked to anesthesia administered during surgery, a detail only revealed decades later. There was never any intention to kill. His story challenges us to rethink the harsh sentencing laws that condemn young, mistake-prone minds to life in prison. Tyreem reflects candidly on how his brain was still developing at that age and questions the justice of life sentences for non-violent, unintentional crimes.

You'll discover how early addiction and negative environments shaped his path, but also how education, mentorship, and resilience sparked his transformation. Tyreem earned a GED and graduated with honors from the University of Scranton. 

Now, with a recent landmark Supreme Court ruling declaring life sentences for second-degree felony murder unconstitutional, he’s poised to finally reclaim his future.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:46

And has been incarcerated at the state correctional institution and for the past 30 years. Welcome to the podcast I mean.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Thanks for having me and good morning, Lori.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Can you tell the listeners um where you are right now and how long you've been there and what brought you to be incarcerated?

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Okay, so I'm currently housed at SCI Dallas. I've been incarcerated here at SCI Dallas since 2004, and uh I've been incarcerated in general since 1996. I was convicted of second-degree felony murder in 1997. Sheesh, it's it's been a real long time, Lori. What brought me here, again, I was I was charged with for second-degree felony murder. My case involved an elderly woman whose purse was snatched, and as a result of the purse snatched uh robbery, she passed away, and uh I was convicted of second-degree murder following that crime.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

How old were you when you were arrested for this crime?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Uh I was 18 years old when when the crime occurred, and I was 19 when I was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. How old are you now?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Okay, so I'm 47 and I'm pushing 48 years old. Tell us who you were at 18 years old. What was your life like back then?

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Well, one thing's for sure, two things for sure. I'm not the same person I am today. I was a a kid uh struggling, struggling in in the world of addiction, criminal activities, a lack of education. I was a a a a stupid kid at that at that age. I was young and in no direction, misguided, and um hanging around the wrong people. I wasn't the person I am today. Where were you living back then and who were you living with? Okay, so I was living in Philadelphia. I was living with my mom. I was living with my mom at 18. I was I was a young kid.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

And what part of Philly were you living in?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

South Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Were you in school at the time that this incident occurred, or had you dropped out at that point?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Right. At that particular point in time, I wasn't really doing this the school thing. I was showing up, but in terms of like having an interest. Physically, I may have been there, but like mentally, I was I was always checked out. I was constantly failing at that particular time. I had failed ninth grade, I think, three times straight. And um, I was just showing up. I was just going through the motions. Yeah, it was it was it was a real bad time for me in life between substance abuse, hanging with the wrong crowd, just like a string of bad decisions. School wasn't really on my agenda.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

So did you have any support, like with either adults or mentors or teachers, anybody who saw what you were going through that would support you and guide you in a different direction? Like, was that available to you at that time?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Well, that's a that's that's a good question. Now, my grandparents, I come up under like like like like old school. My grandmom and my grandpa, they were like really old school. Like my grandpa, he was one of them guys who believed in like hard work and doing the right things and staying out of trouble. And he always, you know, gave me that that push, that encouragement. But um at the time, you know, I wasn't really taking heed to, you know, his words of wisdom, you know what I'm saying? So it it took it took for me to to go through a hard lesson to really understand, you know, what he was trying to teach me at that particular phase of my life. My mom, she went through some some struggles with substance abuse as well, and and and and things was was hard on her at the time. And I thank God today she she's overcome those struggles and she's been in sobriety and recovery and doing phenomenal for over thirty years. But uh at that particular time, um, I did have people like my grandparents um trying to put me in the right direction, but uh I think the streets was was more overwhelming in uh in terms of like criminal activities and and anti-social thinking and antisocial behavior and things of that nature. I think as a kid growing up in those environments, I think sometimes the environment can be overwhelming. It's a blessing that I'm still alive, you know what I'm saying? Because at that at that particular at that particular time in my life, I didn't see myself living past the age of 18.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

It's wild, Lord. It's it's it's it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

You talked about addiction and and the streets. Like when did all that s in your start in your life? How old were you and what led to that?

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Oh man. So it started it started early on. It started maybe 12, 13, where like the ex experiment and like it it became like a experimental thing. So when you that young, um, I think uh like drinking bear. It starts with, you know, drinking bear, and then you smoking the reefer and the weed and stuff like that. And before you know it, um popping pills and taking the xanax and the volumes and next thing you know, you you know experimenting with cocaine and heroin and PCP. And before you know it, you know, you you know, you you you just in a bad place and and and it started young for me. It's it started young for me. It started young for me. And um I'm not gonna lie, I've been in in recovery for uh twenty eight out of thirty years. So as a young kid experimenting in drugs and and not going to school, like me coming to prison or or me getting killed in the in the in the in the streets, the likelihood of it happening was extremely high.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Was the criminal activity that and that you guess as a youth got involved in in any way? Was that to pay for the drugs and alcohol and that those type of things?

SPEAKER_01 6:54

I come from a real good family. I come from like a hard-working family who always was well off. My family was always well off. They uh had you know stores and my family owned property and my grandfather, you know, he sold aluminum and copper and iron, like that was like a side hustle for him. And um, we had like a variety store growing up. And I'm saying all that to say that it's always been in my it's always been in me to like be an earner, so to speak. Um I sold water ice growing up, I shovel payments, I bag groceries. Uh so I've always was accustomed to you know earning a an honest dollar. That kind of shifted when I moved from one part of the city to another part of the city in South Philadelphia, and I went from like a a a pro-social environment to an anti-social environment in which drugs was like a real big thing. Substance abuse was a real big world. Selling drugs was a was a real big thing. And um unfortunately I got swept up in that and and and and selling drugs became a thing at 12, 13 years old. And um dealing with my mom, she was, you know, struggling with, you know, her, you know, trials and and addiction. That actually me, I went from selling drugs to actually using drugs to actually, you know, committing crimes and doing dumb dumb stuff in the process. So that's that's when substance abuse was uh a real big factor in in my criminal behaviors and thinking. It gradually got out of control as you know the substance abuse got worse.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

So did your family, either grandfather, mother, siblings, or anybody else know what was going on with you? And did they try to guide you or help you or s in any way? Did they know what life you the type of life you were living?

SPEAKER_01 9:01

It's crazy because a lot of times, and I'm speaking from experience, people tend to hide like their ultra lives, like like their alter ego, so to speak. And um, I was definitely one of those those kids who was able to uh you know live, have a family life, go home to my family, then you know, be in the streets at the same time. But um, some red flags definitely had been raised, and I think that my family did what they what they could to try to intervene and and try to uh get a hold on me. But um unfortunately, like like like like the influences uh the streets and and and the peer groups, the people you're hanging out with and things going around, sometimes that stuff overwhelms you. And no matter how much you know the people try to, you know, pull you back, sometimes the street the streets is like undefeated. So you look up and um you find yourself in a bad situation, that's when it gets real. When a person hits ground zero, um, that's when it gets real. And for for me, ground zero was uh being sentenced to life in prison.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

So that was that was that was my game changer right there.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Now let's talk about the incident that led to your life imprisonment and what second-degree murder, felony murder in Pennsylvania means. Back when you were 18, there was no it's alleged that there was uh a purse snatched of of an elderly victim, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yes, the crime that I was convicted of is and involved uh an elder woman whose purse was snatched, and um as a result of the robbery, she she she unfortunately passed away, and um I was found guilty of that criminal homicide.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

So I just want to talk a little bit about that. During the snatch, did something happen, or was it afterwards uh from something medical that occurred?

SPEAKER_01 11:00

That's a that's a that's a good question. So with with with my particular case, it was it was a lot of things, and I didn't know about the case until like literally like 20-something years later. I was under the impression that um a robbery happened, the woman passed away as a direct result of the robbery. Um but 20 years later, as you know, it came out that the robbery occurred two days after the robbery occurred, the woman visited the hospital and um went under anesthesia, and um she never recovered from the anesthetics. So that was something new that that that we had learned like 30 years later that that that as a direct connection of the robbery, two days later after the robbery occurred, the woman went to the hospital to have uh surgery performed, went under anesthetics and never recovered from the anesthesia. Um during trial. At no point in time was the uh the the anesthesia uh anesthetic uh consent forms from the hospital that she passed away at none of that was presented to us during trial.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

The allegations about the robbery it wasn't alleged that you there was any intention to kill this woman.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

All evidence in the case showed that it was it was unintentional. Uh it was no assault, the woman wasn't uh assaulted. Um all eyewitness testimony uh states that it was just a simple personatch that occurred. So again, based on you know the the the common the Commonwealth witness testimony, um it was a personatch robbery that occurred and the woman fell as a result of the uh purse snatch, but again, it was no it was no evidence indicating that um it was anything intentional in terms of to c to intentionally cause uh the the woman's death.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

So that's a classic second-degree murder in Pennsylvania where someone intends to commit a felony, in this case there was a robbery, and not intends to commit a homicide, but at some point as an indirect result, even without an intention, somebody dies. Is that your understanding?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

And it's a classic, classic, classic definition of uh second-degree felony murder.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Um yeah, classic. It's it's classic. So even with so during closing arguments, one of my attorneys, he actually had asserted guilt towards me during closing arguments. And I remember the district attorney, okay, so I pled not guilty during trial, but during closer arguments, one of my attorneys he actually pled me guilty during closer arguments with the hope of lessering the degree of criminal homicide. And um, I remember vividly that the district attorney, he he actually caught, he caught, you know, my attorney, you know, making his his his his plea. And he went on to say that the only way that we would be able to find him of a degree of murder lesser than second-degree felony murder is if we change the laws. So he went on to say that if a person takes a pen from a person and a person dies during that that actual act, and a person is found guilty of that crime, they can be sentenced to second-degree murder. Um, and that would ultimately uh land in a life sentence against the guilty party.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

That's wow, that's pretty unbelievable. That that the penalty for for that. I mean, what are your thoughts on the penalty for a second degree felony in in such a situation, either your type of situation or the the the pen situation or anything where someone has no intention to kill someone?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm a thousand percent biased um with respect to my reply or my answer on that.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Um at 18 years old, when you look at you look at, I mean, you look at we can look at it from a a neural science standpoint, we can start there, right? So they say the human brain isn't fully developed to the age of uh 25 and mid-20. Some science say it's actually showing later ages almost at 80. But um, you look at that, the mindset of any 18-year-old kid that do something stupid, right, that that results in an unfortunate situation. And you give a young kid life in prison, right, based off of one senseless decision. It's like it's like it's like it's like it's like where is a sense of compassion? Like, like, like, you know, like was this like uh a brutal situation? Did a person deserve this? You know, like we understand that people should be held accountable for you know violating the laws. Like me knowing what I know now, at 47, I believe that we have laws in play to prevent people from committing crimes. And and I'm a person at 48 years old, 47 years old. Uh I believe that people should be penalized for committing crimes. Um but looking back at my personal situation, you know, when I was I was 19 years old when I was sentenced to life in prison. Um at that particular time in my life, I I kind of felt like, you know, I was I'm not, you know, uh I'm not Jason Voorhees or Freddie Kruger or anything like that. Like like like life in prison, like that was like uh kind of extreme. It was it was it was kind of extreme. But again, I I I do believe that people should be held accountable for uh, you know, you know, bad decision making and victimizing people and things of that nature. I'm not oblivious to that. But um I think it should be uh a careful uh case case by case evaluation when it comes to uh handling handling down those type of prison sentences.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

That's uh I wholeheartedly agree with you, and you put it very, very well after each indiv individual situation as opposed to a mandatory everybody who does any felony where someone dies, whether it's by giving them a pen and they have a heart attack or or taking a taking their pen. Or like your situation where there's no absol no intention for a homicide to occur.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

It was uh unintentional.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

So let's talk about where you've come in the last decade since you were 19 years old and incarcerated in a state prison. Tell us about how you were when you arrived and all the things you've accomplished over the the many years you've been there.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Oh man, um getting sentenced to life in prison, it was something that I'll never forget. It was literally like this the start of a new beginning. I remember I've one of the most vivid memories that I have in the courtroom is hearing my mother scream, like hearing my mother scream and the chills that she sent through my body hearing her scream and and hearing her pain. Behind me being sentenced to life, that like really, like really, I'll never forget those cries. And I remember being taken down before we went to to like the main uh holding cell in CJC. I went went to like a little small holding cell outside the courtroom and um I cried. I really cried and I was I was I was like shh like dang like what just happened, like you know, my life seemed to like just stop. And um I remember being getting on the elevator, going downstairs, and being back in the in the cell with a bunch of guys and they ever I just heard noises, people was talking, I was just like like frozen. And um I remember having that type of like like being frozen in in time for like at least eight or nine months um after, you know, being sentenced to life in prison. And slowly but surely uh I went went upstate, I wound up going to, you know, Camp Hill and my first my first prison uh was SEI Frackville and I I made a pit stop there. And um that's when I kind of like to phased out the fog uh of this belief of of having a life sentence and um started to get get myself together in terms of uh school and um programs and um start talking to God, like a lot of lot of a lot of things started to shift for me in in a in a good way. Education, education literally the thing that I ran from as a kid, I ran to as an adult. Um education um programming and DOC had a lot of programs. Um took advantage of them, took advantage of them early, and that literally set the stage for like my my journey. Like that really my journey to like rehabilitation and and and human transformation began to change, you know, early on through educational opportunity and and programming. So that that literally set me up for where I'm at today.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

That's awesome. You know, you've um achieved an associate's degree, so tell us about that while you've been incarcerated in in uh University of Scrand. Tell us about the courses and your degree.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Oh man, so in 2022, they started the program initially, uh I believe it was 2017, and um it was like yo, they got they got they starting a college program at SCI Dallas. And um, I'm like, I had all I had always, you know, thought about going to college, but never really had the means to go. Um just just to back backtrack a little bit. One of the first things I did within my my first year of incarceration um was to get my my GD and my high school diploma. In nineteen ninety seven I I got my my high school diploma. I earned my high school diploma and I earned my G D and um that literally that was something I wanted to do. That was something that I I couldn't get done when I was when I was a child but it was something that I that I was able to do as an adult. That led me to the educational journey right so when I just to backtrack a little bit I'm gonna get back to Scranton. I know I'll be bouncing around a little bit but while at Frackville I did the accounting I did business math I did business English I did all this all this stuff but when I came to Dallas and they told me that they was having a a a college program I was like oh man I I gotta sign up. So I believe it was 2022 and they they they opened it up they opened the floor up to maybe everybody in the state it's fifty fifty thousand something people in this in the state of it's incarcerated state of Pennsylvania and unfortunately only ninety people signed up through for the for the college program. And um and this is twenty twenty two matter of fact this is twenty one um that's when the the application started but um out of the ninety people they came from ninety they took after ninety they took I think maybe the top seventy then they did they dropped it from the 70 to the the top 50 to the top twenty and um I received my admissions uh my my admissions letter from from the university and I was thrilled to be accepted to the University of Scranton.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Um it was a phenomenal opportunity uh my professors to this day I I love them to death um I love the university um we had some phenomenal classes we hit we had uh we had everything we had uh theology one theology two public speaking uh sociology psychology so graduating from a university this friend was was hands down one of the one of the best things that graduating with honors too Lord I didn't just graduate I graduated with uh with a 3.7 GPA um I missed the Dean's list one semester because I had court back in in 23 I missed the Dean's list one semester but I I graduated college with honors and um awesome it was definitely congratulations I encourage thank you I encourage people to to take advantage of if you're able to get an education like that um we're talking about 70 thousand dollars a semester so we're looking at a hundred and forty thousand dollar you know education take advantage people people get it yeah it's it's it's pretty dope laurie it's definitely pretty dope yeah yeah yes and I know you really enjoyed it from our past conversations with different courses and they really you know world religion world religion yes yes world religion we talked talked a lot about Judaism me and you talked a lot about judaism and all other different world religions and awesome so besides your professors who obviously were very happy and and with all that you accomplished um is there anyone else through these years that have influenced your the the positive attitude that you have your mindset?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Oh man so Lori again my journey my my incarceration definitely entailed um a long journey of like change and rehabilitation and in terms of mentors I had some phenomenal mentors along the way um I had some good jobs while I was incarcerated I was a teacher's aide um I worked as a as a as a peer assistant working with the guys who struggled in in the world of addiction um I had a lot of good mentors uh I remember one one one guy who gave me a shot he got SEI Dallas named John Duffy gave me a shot and he hired me as a as a peer facilitator and um I'll never forget him I literally never forget him he was one of the first people here at the facility that really like took a chance on me. And um he gave me a job working in the uh therapeutic community dealing with the guys who struggle with addiction and every day I spoke to 50 people at like morning meetings and stuff like that. So go coming into this I had no like experience with public speaking. But um thanks to Mr. Duffy talking to people you know talking talking talking talking with those people literally allowed me to feel comfortable in going in pretty much any room and being able to talk to anybody. I don't care how many if you give me a subject and it's pro social and I think I can I think I can do it. I I'm almost certain I can do it.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

People like Brett Grote like attorneys like Brett Grote um you you know like I know about uh the changes that we just just witnessed in in in the Derek Lee case and people like Brett Grote definitely inspire um landmark decisions like we we just had in uh the Lee case so yeah let's talk about that Commonwealth versus Derek Lee um which is very very recent Supreme Court case in Pennsylvania that has ruled second degree felony murder unconstitutional tell us about how you felt when that came out and what your hopes are for yourself oh Lurie Lurie Lurie so quick backstory uh so on March 26 2026 I'm coming back to the housing unit from work I work in the kitchen at SCI Dollars South SEI Dollars kitchen um we got some some good people there but um I'm coming back from work and I'm going back to the housing unit that particular day and um it's a bunch of young guys they they like waiting in the hallway they like you know just waiting I don't know what the hell they was doing so I when I walk past they start talking trash to me and I'm like uh they was like yeah you know uh they actually asked me what's the name of your podcast gonna be right this is this is what they asked me what's the name of your podcast gonna be because you know we have a we have a uh a podcast here uh S CI Dallas and um I'm like uh what y'all talking about they said well you know they just changed the law I'm like man get out of here man we y'all start playing when we start playing those games so I I I I just walked right past them and went to the cell and um I heard people like hugging hugging each other and clapping and just the energy was just a little different on the unit.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

But um you know jail of rumors rumors start in jail all the time and a lot of times the the rumors be like unsubstantiated so I I went to the cell I laid down and um I was just waiting for them to clear account so I can come out and get on the phone. So I came out and I had law library at 115 so count cleared maybe about 110 and um I had law library at at 115 so you know I live in the law library so I I ran and jumped on the phone and I called my sister Yasmin and I asked I said um did you hear anything about the delay case and she said well I don't know and I'll I'll I'll look it up I said well listen I gotta go to the law library and I'll be back at 215 they only give us a lot an hour they need to give us more time too but I said I'll be back at 215 so she said okay so I came back at 215 and um I called her and she was like really really excited and I heard enough voice and I was like yeah they it's that's it's official um and that's when I started getting the emails I got I got the email from you got the email from Brad Grove I got the email from a bunch a bunch of emails from a lot of people man who who know my situation and um it it really it was like it was like a dream it was weird it was it was like a dream and it literally took me a few days to realize like what the magnitude of what had happened and um yeah so now we we we we we 39 days in with 89 days left on 129 oh excuse me on 120 day uh hold getting legislators uh some time to do what they want to do and um right we wait for you know we we wait in there we're waiting for the sense and the retroactivity and stuff like that exactly exactly right right and just for the listeners the legislature has 120 days from the time that the order came out to change the law in accordance to make it constitutional meaning that not everybody with felony murder is automatically going to get a life sentence that's unconstitutional now they have to consider each case on its own and if you if I may say are the perfect example of why that's just and fair and right in your situation is looking for that you've accomplished and I second that case came out you were the first person I thought you are you you it's enough 30 years is enough more than enough and I'm just very very excited for you and I'm I'll I just hope and pray to see you out on the other side as soon as possible and I know you're gonna make continue to accomplish all that you have I know that I feel it um Lloyd I want to I want to I want I want I want to thank you I want to thank you because you and I don't want to get too choked up but you always say that to me and I and I and I really I really appreciate you I really appreciate your motivation um you always tell me that and I want to thank you I want to thank you for for being one of those people in my life that that that definitely motivate me and inspire me to you know stay on the right track and um that means a lot to me like when you when we speak about mentors when I speak spoke about um the guy who gave me a shot at the TC program I speak about Brad Grote um I definitely I definitely have to speak about you as well like you always say what you say about me and it's it's definitely motivation and inspirational. And I want to thank you. I want to thank you for believing in me and um I I I you know thank you I I I appreciate you and um it means a lot to me like they to hear you talk like that about me it really really mean a lot a lot to me and I promise I won't let you down and I promise you know the best the best is yet to come uh I know it I know it's we will we will do some good Lori we're gonna do some good we're gonna do some we're gonna do a lot of good we're gonna do a lot of good a lot of people will benefit from absolutely me coming home yes yes and tell us about what your your goals are when you let's say when you come home because I feel that it's going to happen. I do and so let's tell what what do you think you you want to do when you come out all right so I wanna I want to help people I really I really really want to help people I I get a lot of uh like like self gratification like like like helping people and seeing people um better off than they were when when I came in contact with them we we we didn't really go into like all my educational accomplishments but I do have a diploma in drug and alcohol treatment specialist studies. Um and I really want to look I've looked forward to like working with people who uh struggle in the field of addiction. Um I wouldn't mind working in the recovery center and I also wouldn't mind you know you know having you know creating a recovery center for people centers for people to uh to get help and so I want to do a lot of I want to help people I also want to help people who come from environments that I came from in terms of like the the urban youth um those those those those bad neighborhoods I want to help put them kids in the position to experience uh higher learning on a on a on a on a on a collegiate level um I want to create uh just just this opportunity uh for people to do better for people to do better um I want to help people I really want to help people and who who better than you because look all you seriously of people in similar circumstances that you had when you were a kid yeah right you can they can you can relate to them they can relate you know and they can look at you as a mentor and someone to look up to yeah like really I've I've yeah yeah I mean I'm not a bad example I'm not a bad example I mean you know for me it was it was it was it was a story of my story is literally uh a story of turning the negative into a positive it's one of those stories in which people really can if you if you if you you you get into it early you'll be able to like learn early like I was I was talking to a kid the other day he was 21 years old I said 21 I said you're 21 years old I said man you got your whole life ahead of you you know I'm saying so you like yeah I'm like man you you you gotta come up with a plan you know I'm saying stick to your plan like if you can go to school right now you can literally like like you got your whole life ahead of you man like just don't throw it away don't mess it up but um I want to get them even earlier Lord I want to get them I want to get kids I want to start scholarship programs for kids while they in high school you know I'm saying and see if we can get more people uh more college graduates man fresh like like we get these kids an opportunity we give them an opportunity to go to college and and to become better people then they can be better people and they can be better family members they can be better community community uh members they can just be better off like you know like I want to we I just want to help I just want to do what I can man to be a part of the solution that's that's that's that's love it that's my thing I love that and also I wanted to mention um you received a very meaningful uh recognition in 2024 from the Pennsylvania Prison Society you were um incarcerated person of the year so I wanted to ask you to comment on that that was very I think huge accomplishment and huge recognition to you of all that you've done and accomplished so tell us about that that was that was that was that was that was magical that was um unbelievable um so it started off with so the Pennsylvania Prison Society they they do an incarcerated person of the year every year they do uh humanitarian the year uh what's that correctional uh person of the year uh incarcerated person of the year they do like four different uh nominations and uh my mom she had actually nominated me and I remember when she nominated me I was I was I had so much stuff going on I was doing doing I was in my sophomore senior sophomore year in college and I didn't really take what she was doing like super serious. Like son tell me a little bit about you know what you got going on and what you doing. So I remember um being in the top fifty and coming down to the top twenty and coming down to maybe like a top four and every time I would call she would tell me you know how the numbers was looking and I remember when I called and found out that um I had one incarcerated person of the year in in 2024 I was in disbelief. I was like wow this is crazy and um from that point from from from from there um they had the event at World Cafe Live. You were in attendance yes I was shout out to being in attendance yes yes shout out to you for being attendance and just the night just just just like looking back on that night and and and being honored like I never thought about being honored and um it it it really it really it was a huge compliment it was flattering flattering and um definitely a a humbling experience it's real real humbling and um an honor an honor to say the least it was it was it was a huge honor and um again that's more motivation to stay on the right track and continue to you know to be a a good person and try to be a good person.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

And I was very proud to attend saying that's my client I'm really my client I was so proud it was it was very very meaningful evening yeah and your mother was so proud for sure. Before we finish our wonderful conversation um is there anything else that you would like to talk about or say to the listeners about anything you know with your what you've gone through the last 30 years the criminal justice system anything you that you'd like to say before we well I want to thank you for having me on voices of the system say um it's an honor to to to be uh a part of this first and foremost thank you lawyer I really really uh appreciate this I appreciate this and I appreciate what you do and I encourage you to continue to do what you do you do a lot of good work and um so I want to want to thank you and um encourage you to keep doing what you're doing thank you I know I you know how much that means to me and um I am gonna keep doing it and highlight people people like you highlight them let people see you you Irene River as a human being not just an inmate in a in a prison that you will you you know your life matters and it will continue to matter and I I can't wait to see how your life continues as as uh as you you know move through your life it's I know you're gonna do some continue to do some great things I will and I promise I won't let you uh I know you won't I won't I'll I won't thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Voices of the System. If you liked this episode please be sure to subscribe for more information on the podcast and how to get involved in criminal justice reform follow us on our socials at Voices of the System