Stop Being Busy and Start Moving Forward w/ Rick Tracewell

We unpack why so many owners stay busy while their practice stands still, and how awareness plus simple systems can turn a job you built for yourself into a business that runs without you. Rick Tracewell shares practical, shame-free ways to escape the “uncomfortable comfort zone” and build real momentum.

• defining the uncomfortable comfort zone
• why autonomy and ego fuel avoidance
• the myth of hustle and grind
• skills gaps that keep owners stuck
• awareness as the first lever for change
• building systems so the practice runs without you
• documenting operations and reducing single points of failure
• giving yourself credit and dropping shame
• resources, books and next steps

Get Rick's Book: https://uczbook.com/

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*Intro/outro song credit:
King Around Here by Alex Grohl

Transcript

Welcome And Problem We All Face

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Have you ever found yourself just getting busy with tasks that really are not all that important? Almost avoiding the things that you really should be doing in your business. Uh I know I am 100% guilty of this, and Rick Tracewell joins me today. He is the author of The Uncomfortable Comfort Zone, where he digs into why this happens and how we can overcome it just by simply being aware of why and what we're doing, and take that and then pivot our focus to grow our business in a way that we're not feeling guilty, we're not beating ourselves up, but we can actually really lean in and build a business that we love. My name is Craig, and I'm the owner of Daisy Financial Coaching. Our team is on a mission to make your therapy practice permanently profitable. If you own a solo or group practice, we're here to help you build a business that creates more time, makes more money, and serves more people. This is the Therapy Business Podcast. All right, Rick, how are we doing? Thanks for joining me on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Not too bad. I I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Defining The Uncomfortable Comfort Zone

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Yeah, I'm excited to dig in. I know uh we got a lot to talk about. So you wrote a book. It's called The Uncomfortable Comfort Zone, uh, which just the title alone, I'm like, okay, yeah, I I I that resonates. I feel that in my core. But tell us a little bit about you, what you do, about the book.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Uh well, basically the book came out of necessity. Um, a lot of people can relate to that. Uh you know, it's it was something that I, the uncomfortable comfort zone, which is my little kitschy way of describing it to myself. Never told anybody, of course. So, which I think most of the people who are the target for this book, as far as people who need it, uh, they can relate to that. Um, but uh it just became something that uh I'm I'm a marketing guy. So over the years, I mean I've been doing marketing since 1990. You know, see the gray. So uh so I I've dealt with a lot of my my clients who are similar to me in that you know, they're either they've either got they're they're the owner and there's a an employee or two or three, and that's about it, you know. Um, and uh and what I found was that most of them have either uh they're either going through it or they've been through this uncomfortable comfort zone, which is essentially it's it's uh it's a sense of being stuck where you're uh you really don't know what to do next, or you're you're just not comfortable uh in doing, you know, like with your own ability. And so you end up just staying busy, which I'm sure you can relate to that. Anybody who's a business owner at all, you're staying busy and staying busy. So to everybody else, it looks like man, uh Rick really, you know, kicking ass. He's just doing all kinds of work. And and yet internally I'm going, oh my God, oh my god, oh my god. So that's kind of what this is a book's about. It's just awareness. It's it's letting you know that you're not alone. Other people go through it. We're not all experts in all fields, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yes, man, you're you're speaking my language. I've been there. Um I I feel like I'm always in some kind of uncomfortable comfort zone. What you're talking about, where it's like, I know I should be doing something, I don't know what necessarily what it should be. So I'm just kind of right doing things to be doing things, and a lot of times they're not even that important. And so yes, oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's it's just I get stuck in the mundane, or it's like, oh, let me create some content for the sake of creating content, and there's no purpose behind it, maybe. Um, or yeah, there's just a thousand things I probably could be doing to move the business forward, but I'm just not sure where to go. And so in your experience, where why do people get stuck in that? Or where how do you think that happens, or where does that trap come from?

Why Owners Drift Into Busyness

SPEAKER_00 3:42

I think part of it, I mean, there's a ton of things, but I think a big part of it is that when we're when we're the owner, we're the head honcho, right? So we don't, and we and we probably got ourselves there for many, a myriad of reasons, right? So we either hated being told what to do or we, you know, whatever it was. Um, but the thing of it is, is that we uh we're the master of our own domains, so to speak. And there isn't somebody standing behind us tapping us on the shoulder, going, um, are you supposed to be doing that right now? Nobody. So we have it's it's all on our shoulders, which kind of adds even more pressure to some people, you know, to a lot of us. Oh, yeah. So you end up, you know, I mean, I mean, it sounds like you've been through the same thing. You work your butt off for 12 hours, 16 hours sometimes, and you get to the end, you're like, I don't feel like I accomplished anything. I mean, I got stuff done, I was busy, but I didn't really help the overall business like I I wanted to when I started it, or uh where it's at right at the moment, or whatever it is. You know, you just so I think that's part of it is that we, you know, we're we're too in control.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Man, yes. And I I I tell people a lot who are not business owners, you know, that's that that's kind of the plus minus. I'm like, you know, I get freedom of time, I get to dictate my day, but at the same time, it's really tough because I get freedom of time and I have to dictate my day. It's exactly right. Yeah, no one telling me where to go. It's it's really up to me. And if I feel like slacking off or, you know, without intention, I'm all about a big appeal, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

I mean, that's why we did this. That's why we started doing stuff on our own, but it's a catch 22.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

It is a catch 22, and I I've personally learned I'm going the times where I feel bad about myself is when I'm avoiding work by slacking off or doing those things versus baking time off, which I think is super important as well. Um, but I do feel like there's this innate pressure out there to do the whole hustle and grind. Um, you know, if you're not working 12 like hours a day, then you're you don't you don't care about your business. Have you seen that?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, yeah. And I just don't, I think that's a misnomer. I think that it's too it puts people in a pigeonhole situation, you know what I mean? I mean, I think that people uh, and this is what I say in the book, because I'm as you can tell, I'm not an expert. So the stuff in the book is not specific because uh somebody could be reading the book that that is a mechanic, somebody could be reading the book that is a podcaster, somebody could be reading the book that's a uh a landscape uh expert. You know what I mean? We all have our reasons for starting our own business, and usually it's because we think we can do it better or we find uh that there's a need for it. That's pretty much the basics of being an entrepreneur. And so uh so what ends up happening, and I I'll use myself as an example. Um, I'm I'm a marketing guy, I'm a creative guy, I do all kinds of things. And so um, but being a finance expert is not one of them. Hiring and and running people, you know, managing people is not one of them. So it's not it's not that I can't, it's that I don't, I'm not an expert at them. So I end up doing all the stuff, like I said, like we talked about, keeping busy doing the things that I know, but you know, it only goes so far.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yes, getting trapped in that of yeah, these are the the almost low-hanging fruit and the other things can can for me overwhelm is is sometimes it, or just I don't even know what it maybe there's a bit of fear in there, just um it stresses me out trying to do something that's just out of my comfort zone or that might take extra energy or extra thought. So I get do get stuck trapped in my, you know, oh I know how to write a blog, I'll just sit down and do that real quick instead, because that's that's in my wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

It's so easy to do. And and so just to make sure everybody understands the uncomfortable comfort zone is my way of saying or my way of describing a situation where uh it's comfortable because we know what to expect, because we're doing the things that we are comfortable with, right? But it's uncomfortable because it's not we're not doing what we should be doing, but we're in that comfort zone because we're doing, you know what I mean? It's like this this horrible uh circular cycle that's yeah, it's it's so yeah, that's that's that's why that's what I described.

Hustle Culture And Its Trap

SPEAKER_01 7:44

So, and it sounds like what you're talking about uh in even in yourself, you writing the book itself, because you even going back to what you said, you're like, I'm not an expert in this, I'm just sharing what I've learned along the way. Uh, you writing the book is taking that step out of the comfort zone, it sounds like to me.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, in fact, the book was published on uh uh New York, I mean on uh Christmas Eve, because I don't know if you're like this, during that that uh December area toward the end of December where nobody's doing anything. I was I finally put my mind to okay, I'm gonna finally finish this damn thing, you know. So, and it's it's really it's not a book you have to read cover to cover by any stretch. And it's very simple to read. I kept it very not simplistic, but more general, you know, again, because I don't know who's reading it. So it's more about I have found anyway that uh acknowledging and recognizing things is the way to move forward in them. If you don't know what they are, then how can you move forward in that area? You know, so that's what the book is about.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yes, I think that's that's so key. And I find I get frustrated with myself when I get stuck in these cycles. I know a lot of business owners do, but um why do we why do we revert to that comfort zone, I guess? Um, or what's your opinion on that? Of I'm just gonna keep doing these, this playing this game and doing this dance and then complaining about how things are not changing or how I'm overwhelmed and stressed. And um, yet there's just something about not wanting to make that change or make that pivot. Uh in your experience, what what is what's the root of that? Do you even know? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Well, I think I think a lot of it is is we all have, I mean, everyone has an ego, right? So we even have an ego with ourselves. Like, like, I don't have a problem with that. I'll fix it later, you know, and then six months or or six years later is still not fixed, you know. So I think we just it's it's like we talked about at the beginning. We keep ourselves busy, we keep, you know, we it feels on some level, which is the uncomfortable comfort zone, it feels on some level like we're working our butts off, but we're just not getting there and we don't know why. And that's kind of the whole point I was trying to make with this book is that each chapter just kind of talks about a situation that you may find yourself in. Some people will recognize themselves in every chapter, some people will recognize themselves in chapter two and six. And they're just about different things in business that I have found. Um, and uh at that's kind of what it is. It's more about recognition. And hopefully by the end of the book or by the end of the chapter, you won't let yourself slip back into that uncomfortable comfort zone because once you're aware of something, it's hard to kind of go la la la la la, even though we're good at that too.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Yes, yes, no, 100%. And so it's not each chapter almost speaks to a different type of person. Is that kind of what you're saying? Or a different situation or a different reason?

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah, different situations. And and I mean, there's a thread that goes throughout all of them, right? I mean, we're all solo business owners. I feel uh I and this, you know, I'm a marketing guy, so I turn the book idea around and upside down just to make sure that I was I was being uh able to help as many people as possible, right? So uh so for me, it I think that anyone who is listening to this podcast, uh, who picks up the book, that kind of thing, they're already showing that they they know they're in a position that they should they want to get out of.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

So they're they're they've got that awareness, and now it's like, okay, this this is the next step into maybe I guess changing that direct the trajectory. Yep, yep. Okay, absolutely. Great, great. And so um even in, I guess as we're talking, I'm thinking through, okay, here's some of the scenarios I would find myself in. Uh if you can, or speak to, I guess, the different the different things you speak to in the book, the different chapters or the different snapshots of what that might look like.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

I would say probably the the one chapter that I have found uh is probably the most needed when it comes to solo business owners. Um, and it's a it's a very common thread through most super small businesses, which is what what I call them. Um uh I think that they're in the let's say the business industry, like financing, franchising, that that, you know, small businesses that are that are growing. Um in that area, when it comes to super small businesses, um, a lot of people don't realize that if you have a business, like if I asked you, let's say you're you're you know, you you have a small whatever cigar shop, whatever it is, uh, and I and I ask you, so uh, so if you have to leave for two weeks, not nothing no emergency, I'm not trying to make it weird, um, but uh let's let's say it's a a last minute thing, you know, uh, I don't know, you have a you have a second home and it and it gets flooded and you have to go take care of it for a bit. So if you have to leave your business for two weeks, what happens? And if the answer is, and most of it is, well, the business just stops. Yeah. If it does, if that's the answer, to the outside world who deals with businesses uh on a higher level, um, you really don't have a business. You have a job that you created for yourself, which is most of us, right? So it's really about uh putting together systems. I mean, uh, you ever read uh the uh uh uh emyth?

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Uh yes, yep, I'm familiar with it.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Yeah, so most people have at least heard of it. And generally speaking, Michael Gerber, who who wrote that, genius guy, um, what he says in there is that if you have systems in place, that means you and I can step away for a day or or two days or two weeks, and at least the business people who are helping out know what to do when the phone rings, do step one, step two, that kind of thing. Um, and 99% of us do not have that. We may think we have that, but we don't have that. So that's kind of that that chapter right there, I think, will resonate with most everyone, even somebody who's not uh as stuck as as other people are, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Completely. And you know, I know it's uh there's a direct correlation if somebody's a solopreneur and they're the sole only person in the business. But even a lot of people who have a team, just like you were talking about, it's they may go and they may think they can step away, but they're taking their computer with them if they're on vacation and they're checking their emails and responding on Slack to their team, uh, versus being able to step back and just know that when you came back, it may be.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Their business phone goes to their cell phone anyway, right? Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, you want you want to be able to go and come back and be like, wow, we made more money with me gone than than we did uh last month when I was here.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Uh yeah. So that's what the chapter, that one chapter, it it basically says uh you don't have to sell or franchise your business, but if you make the operations as if you're going to, oh boy, can it help you? It helps you. I mean, you know, as you know and I know, being able to spend time with your family, being able to actually take care of ourselves, like take a break, uh, read a book, go to a movie, go to the gym. You know what I mean? It's like having systems in place, it just relieves a lot of the stress.

Awareness As The First Lever

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yes, very much. I I agree. Um, and I mean, I mean, there's I I need it, is what I I've we've been working hard at this for years, and you know, now I'm in a place where I can take a couple of weeks vacation and I know my team's got it, and I don't even have to stress. Uh, however, uh, I still don't feel like my business has um longevity in the sense of if I I was just talking about this recently. I was like, if I were to die tomorrow, what's what happens to the business? Does does anybody know how to access these things that only I've been accessing, or does anybody even know how to get in contact with my does anybody know who my clients are to even let them know that I'm I'm gone? And so um, and then what happens to that? Uh does it just dissolve? Is it just gone? And so even those pieces to mean that's probably the more a huge important thing I should be working on. And yeah, I just don't.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Well, that's that's what I mean, is that we we all, you know, and that's where it's that's where, and maybe I should have named the book La La La La La, you know, because we we all have to, I mean, we have to do that sometimes, right? But uh, but I think that's kind of what uh um without having somebody behind us going, uh, hey man, you should actually be working on this thing over here. Without that, what what do we do? We're we're not all perfect, you know? So it's just more of having that awareness. It's nothing you have to do overnight. It's nothing you have to, I even say in the book, it's not this book doesn't tell you you have to go get a loan, you have to go hire 10 people. It's none of that. It's more about just being aware of certain areas that we're strongest in and weakest in, but it's only to ourselves. We don't have to admit it to anybody else, right? It's just a thing to take a step here, take a step there. Don't don't forget you this is where we want to go, so we can take a week to handle stuff and then come back to it, that kind of thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Yes. Okay, so you're and to your point there too, like even going to what I was just talking about with if I die, what happens to the business? It's important, but it's not urgent. And so speaking to that, you're saying it's even just the awareness of knowing that's something that needs to be addressed, but don't put so much pressure or beat myself up so much for not absolutely dropping everything else and doing it right now, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Exactly right. Yeah, so it's not a it's a super easy read. And it, I mean, it's the things it's a six by nine book and it's only 49 pages, you know, and and and the ending of the book, just to let you know, um, I lit because it's not a specific book about your particular situation or Jim's particular, because it's general, at the end, I have a a chapter that lists uh um really good business books in different areas so that you know, and I I give reasons why and I give the name of the book and the author so that you can kind of if if somebody recognizes themselves, like one book might be about finance, one book might be about marketing, they can see within themselves and they can kind of continue their path to taking further steps. There's one about podcasts, and there's also one about uh really good YouTube channels. We all know you know there's there's really good ones out there. So it kind of gives them some direction, but they choose the direction, not me.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yes. Man, I uh that's perfect. And so going back to that awareness piece, um, I think I saw you you said awareness almost plays a role before anything actually changes. So what I guess what is awareness even doing? Because I think there is that key of like, oh, I know it's there, I know I have to do it, but I'm still gonna avoid it because it's stressful and overwhelming. Um, how is that shift in awareness a positive thing or at least count as momentum or motion towards solving it? Does that make sense?

Systems So The Business Runs Without You

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Yes. So I'm a marketing guy, and literally while you were finishing that sentence, I thought of an analogy because I'm king of analogy. That's good. That's what I mean. So if if I'm if I'm if you and I are standing there and and you walk by me and I know you and I go, hey, uh, by the way, you stepped in some dog poop. Can you keep walking without I mean ignoring the fact that you have dog shit on your shoe? No, so that's kind of what this book is about, is that it's awareness so that you don't I mean you can keep walking a little bit until you get to some place where you can clean it off, but you're not going to completely ignore it. So that's kind of what I'm hoping the book does. Um, you know, that that you you know you got to take care of that. So it doesn't you don't completely ignore it for the rest of the day. You just maybe just for a few minutes or or you know what I mean? That's kind of a bad analogy.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

No, that's a great analogy. You're solving the problem of you don't know what you don't know, which I think is what I find and I think a lot of people find themselves in is I I don't know what I should be doing, and I don't know. So I should would show up to coaching sessions with my coaches, and they're like, What do you want to talk about today? I'm like, I don't know, but I know I need to we need to figure something like there's something to be done. I don't know what it is. Um exactly. So okay, so what are some steps that we can make or shifts we can make to start getting some momentum on this?

SPEAKER_00 20:11

So I think uh, at least as far as the book is concerned, I mean, I don't take an authority uh stance, like I said. So I'm not in fact, I even start the whole cadence of the book is hey, before you start reading this thing, give yourself some credit. Not, I mean, we both know this very well. Not everybody is cut out for this. Nobody, not everybody has the stones to go out on their own and be their own income. That's very tough. So I kind of tell people, you already, you already showed that you're tough. You've already shown that you can get through hard times. So give yourself a break. So I don't come at it like you're a screw up and you didn't know this and you shouldn't have started a business. I don't do that. So that's kind of the whole uh it's kind of like, you know, relax and just glance through this thing, look at one chapter, forward a bunch of pages and look at another chapter. And if you see stuff that you recognize, you don't have to tell anybody. You don't have to tell me, you don't have to fill out a workbook. There's none of that. So it's really just a way for people to relax a little bit and identify things on their own. What that I mean, we all know if you read a chapter that says something about exactly what you go through, you're gonna go, oh boy. What's nice about that recognition is that you realize first off that you're not alone, that other people go through this. And that's a huge thing because then you don't feel as bad about yourself. Like, you know, you know, some of us sometimes we go, oh, I'm such an idiot. There's none of that by reading this book. So I think that's the biggest thing is recognition, knowing where, I mean, we each know where we're where we need to work on things. And it's more of it's that kind of thing. It's like, by the way, you have dog crap on your shoe in this chapter.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yes. Now you're aware, you know, I've found uh, and this is our philosophy too, and we tell uh people on sales calls all the time, or even our clients all the time if they feel like they've messed up or it's almost they come just because we we work with people on profit, profitability, and managing money, uh, which no one teaches us in the first place how to do that when you get a business. Uh right. But we we go about it and they're almost speaking with shame of how they made this decision or how they got trapped in credit card debt or how uh X, Y, and Z fill in the blank, and it's just reassuring them, you know what? Like you should be just what you just said, pat yourself on the back, be proud that you did what it took to survive and to get you to this point. You know, you you did everything you had to do to get here. Were they all the best decisions? No, but they maybe were the best what you did the best you could with what you had. You didn't made decisions, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

It's not a decision not to do anything, it's a decision.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

You made them. And so now we're gonna refine it and we're gonna get you a clear path to make the right ones or to figure out. you know, be aware of of those things. So I think that's huge. It's just let go of that that past and um give yourself credit. And going back to even what you and I talked about, I think before we start recording, which was just not being the expert in something and how I think that is it's okay. It's valuable.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Yeah. Well I mean we, you know, let's face it, when we're when we're business owners, there is a sense of pride of being a business owner. For some people, having worked as an employee forever and then becoming a business owner, it's kind of cool to be able to, you know, you're a chamber mixer and you go, oh, I'm I'm the I'm the owner. Yes. So there's a sense of pride, but I think that also puts a little pressure on ourselves, on ourselves, not nobody else, but on ourselves that we're supposed to know it all. We're supposed to know exactly where we are, where we're going, uh what's going to happen next week, how how much budget we have and what the profitability, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? And so I think we we uh have that sense of pride outwardly, but inwardly we're probably going, I wish I knew that. I can't tell anybody I don't know that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yes, feeling that shame or um you know and I I think about that's that's kind of what makes us stand out from the competition at least is that we we struggle I I say struggle. We need something like a money system in order for us to be successful. If we didn't have it and we need something simple which is why we can reiterate it in simplicity I I always go to the analog back to analogies my marketing friend uh it's it's yeah if I if I want washboard abs and I'm gonna go hire a personal trainer do I want the guy who is born with them and he's just like hey you just got to have good genetics and you can have let's change the subject this is too close.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

I'm sure I'm not mad about myself.

Stepping Away And Real Longevity

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Exactly see or do I want the guy who had to work hard to get them and he knows and he still has to work hard to keep them or you know so he knows the path and the struggle and the temptation and the all the pieces that go along with it because he's in those trenches too trying to get exactly what you're trying to get.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

And that's kind of what this book does it's giving you permission to chill out. This is not rocket science. This is not life or death it's really just like I said give yourself some credit for where you've gotten so far. Now it's just pivot. That's it. Pivot a little bit you've been through rough stuff before give yourself a break okay fine you didn't do certain things big deal now you know let's move move on to this area. And and again I need this book more just as much as anybody. So it's I'm not an expert telling you what to do.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

That's hey we we learn best when we teach and um you know and I think that's that's excellent. And if we all waited until we were perfect experts in something before we released it to the world none of us would have anything um to to learn from or to to pull from and so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Well you're you know doing coaching you I mean I'm sure you've you've heard this before and it makes perfect sense when people think about it.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Most therapists you know psychologists therapists they all have their own psychologists and therapists they go to right so that should kind of tell you nope I exactly and I think you know if it's if if you're a mental health therapist out there and your your marriage is struggling then sometimes going into a couples counseling session you might be feeling like who am I to be doing this but it's you know what they're going through and if or if you struggle with depression you know what they're going through. So you you have firsthand knowledge and that can create some empathy and some compassion and understanding that um we're all just we're all just humans trying to get through get to get through this together.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Exactly yeah perfect well how can we find your book so that everyone listening can go buy copies immediately okay so it's at most sex shops and liquor stores don't you can all right great so just next time you're rolling through everyone's stopping by on their way home from work I know like like everything else it's it's on Amazon um you know uh it's it's called Uncomfortable Comfort Zone um it's on Amazon it's also on Audible which is also part of Amazon so there's an there's a an audio book as well which makes it really easy to to listen to and I think the audio book is like an hour. It's not like a one of those 10 hour books that we never get through um so uh uh and I have a website for people who want to get a little more info about what the book is about there's even a sample chapter the opening chapter that kind of gives an idea of the book and so they can go to uncomfortablecomfortzone.com but that's really long they can use that but they can also go to it's it's uh uh an acronym of a UCZbook.com so UCZ Uncomfortable comfort zone ucczbook.com and they can reach out to me uh through that um they can there's links to get the book uh and like I said there's examples and you know things like that so it makes it it's a one page website doesn't go any further than that perfect we'll make it simple on everybody we'll link um straight to the website and straight to to Amazon as well so that way all you gotta do is look in the notes you can find those links and snag a copy uh listen to it while you're at the gym um read it whatever it is say I know I'm gonna get a copy I'm I'm super interested and invested but Rick I really appreciate your time yeah and sharing your wealth of knowledge thanks for joining us on the Therapy Business podcast be sure to subscribe leave a review and share it with a practice owner that you may know.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

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