The Partovi Effect
Creating the Consensus
"The Partovi Effect: Creating the Consensus" is about navigating the sea of disinformation and exposing the lies in healthcare, education, and politics that have left Americans sick, defeated, and divided. As political and economic divides deepen and media censorship clouds the truth, our podcast brings in fresh perspectives from experts outside the political realm—engineers, doctors, scientists, and more— to reconcile divergent perspectives and offer innovative solutions to today’s most critical issues. Our commitment is to create unity and connectedness— building a new consensus rooted in common sense, mutual respect, and the shared wisdom of our human family, and we believe challenging and intense conversations are necessary to fulfill our mission. Welcome to The Partovi Effect—where truth leads to transformation!
The Partovi Effect
UBI: Freedom or Dystopia? The Debate You’re Not Hearing
“What if AI takes all our jobs—and instead of collapse, we end up in a world where everyone’s basic needs are met? Is that freedom… or the perfect setup for total control?”
In this clip from The Partovi Effect, Ryan Partovi, JD, NMD, MIFHI, and Mrs. Madi partovi dive into Universal Basic Income—the utopian dream vs. the dystopian fear. Would UBI actually unleash creativity, entrepreneurship, and community… or would it hand the government ultimate control over our lives? This gets real fast—AI, capitalism, the human spirit, and why Star Trek might hold the answer.
- Why UBI could spark more entrepreneurs and creative breakthroughs than ever before
- The dark side: control, surveillance, “15-minute cities” — is that the trade-off?
- How spirituality, community, and informed choice fit into this bigger conversation
We love hearing from you! Do you have questions or want to suggest a future podcast topic? Email us today at office@drpartovi.com — your input helps us create content that serves you best.
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Introduction and Welcome
📍 Welcome. My name is Mrs. Madi Partovi.
And I'm Dr. Ryan Partovi.
And welcome to this episode of The Partovi Effect.
Which episode is this? Do we know like the nu Do we keep track? We don't really count, do we?
No.
Yeah,
we're over 50, I think.
Really? Wow. That's exciting. Close to it anyway.
I have no idea. You
have no ideas.
Current Events and Vaccine Schedule Controversy
There's so many current events that have happened. There's so much. Okay. So much news, so much Anything. There's nothing that's like burning that you're like, oh, I need to talk about this. 'cause if you don't, I have tons to talk about, but, well, okay. I'm more than happy to let you go first, as I usually do.
I acknowledge the group of pediatricians that is suing the CDC for their vaccine schedule. Childhood vaccine schedule, which still has COVID, no COVID vaccine on it. The American Pediatric, what is A P?
You're talking about the American Academy of Pediatrics?
Yes. Yes. They have put out their own vaccine schedule.
Really?
Yes. That also has the vaccine. No, wait a minute. Maybe the CDC doesn't have the COVID vaccine anymore. So the a P has put out their own, which includes a COVID vaccine
for infant, yes. Just to show how corrupt they truly are. Wow. That's sad. Okay.
Yeah.
All right. I don't have a whole lot to say about that other than, par for the course.
Anything else you wanna say about that?
Yes.
Pediatricians and Vaccine Incentives
I've been listening to this so we have Dr. Joel Gator who reached out to us requesting to be a guest. And in, in, I'm listening to his book. And in his book he notes that he himself as a pediatrician, he's not profiting off of, the O off of giving vaccines to children. And he knows all of the, like the overhead of the office and having to pay people, the staff. And so he makes a hard point, for pediatricians that they're not out for profit.
Well, and I don't know about him and I don't know about his practice, so I can't speak to his practice and I'm not gonna respond to that until we have him on the show.
Managed Care Networks and Vaccination Policies
But my understanding is that doctors who are part of Managed Care Networks works receive incentives if they have fully vaccinated patients that are on the schedule and kept up with the schedule and that those incentives are financial and that they are provided by the Managed Care Network and they are subsidized by the vaccine manufacturers.
Now, I've heard this over and over again from many different people. Everyone from Dr. McCullough to Dr. Merrick, to Brett Weinstein, and everyone in between. It makes sense to me. But the point is that you have to be part of a managed care network and you have to you have to have a hundred percent vaccination rates.
So if you're giving vaccine exemptions, if you're just taking PPOs, these things don't apply to you. And that may be a little bit of a fine point 'cause people don't really understand, like on the doctor side, what difference is it if I have a PPO or an HMO or that kind of thing, or if I'm part of Kaiser.
But basically it's the idea that if the doctor has a set role of patients, which is how it works, when you're in an HMO typically, and certainly in managed care organizations like Kaiser, or I don't wanna pick on Kaiser, but like Kelsey Seabold and there, there's others that basically they're fully self-contained medical systems.
Where you can only see if you have that type of insurance. You could only see doctors that are part of that system. Because it's that closed loop. They have more strict rules. I know that even in with Cook's Children's, there are many doctors, if not most doctors at Cook Children's who will not have pediatric patients in their practice unless they are fully vaccinated according to the CDC schedule.
And I guess my question is, and you hear about that all the time which Cook Children's is in Dallas-Fort Worth area in Texas which is where I'm from. We have a lot of experience there.
Parental Concerns and Pediatric Practices
But my question to pediatricians is if you're not financially benefiting from having a fully vaccinated practice, then why would you insist upon having a fully vaccinated practice as if it was like a religious requirement for you, like for your salvation that you had to have all of your patients be fully vaccinated?
It's literally how it comes across. Like you have doctors who will literally fire patients if they're not willing to if their parents are not willing to have them fully vaccinated according to the CDC schedule, which to me begs the question of like, well, why do you care so much? I get caring for your patients.
That makes sense to me. In which case, I would say you educate the parents to the best of your ability. If the parents are not enrolled in, in having their child fully vaccinated, then you say, okay, well. I'm gonna need to see him more often. If he has a fever, I need to see him right away. Don't wait two days and see, I need to be more vigilant and stay on top of his care or her care because they don't have that extra layer of protection that I, as a P member, pediatrician believe that vaccines provide my patients, and so I need to be more vigilant in taking care of them.
But they don't, that's not their approach. The approach is literally to fire the patient. Let's punish the patient. Let's punish the child for having parents that are vaccine hesitant or vaccine skeptics and, or straight up anti-vaxxers. Let's punish the patient, the child, because of his parents.
That doesn't make sense. If what you care about is your patients, your, if you care about children, and that's why you're a pediatrician and you care about your patients, and that's why you're a pediatrician, then firing your patient, the child, because the parents are, incorrigible in your mind, is exactly the wrong approach that you would take.
It's the opposite of what a conscientious, loving, concerned pediatrician would do. Instead, it would be no, I need to see you more often. Does that not just make common sense to you? Like, I just want to check in. Does that, is that landing? Do you get what I'm saying? It does
to me. Yeah. And I am a part of various Facebook groups where, parents have been, or their children have been fired from being patients.
'cause they're questioning everything now. They're actually thinking critically Yeah. About the injectables that go into their child.
So how do you explain that, coming from this supposedly loving, caring, concerned pediatrician who went into pediatrics 'cause they love children and they care about children and they want children to be as healthy as possible.
How do you explain that kind of a behavior, that religious zealous behavior on behalf of a person of science, of medicine. How do you explain that behavior if not for some perverse incentive, like, well I'm not gonna get my $20,000 bonus if I let this person stay in my practice. It's the only way I can explain it.
So lemme make a distinction. So you're saying that a doctor, a part of man managed care may be getting these incentivized in Incentivized
Yeah.
But a pediatrician, why the managed
care organization,
Yeah. And so they, they don't know that it's coming from the vaccine manufacturer. And that's the confusion because I have.
Talked with pediatricians and they're like, well, I don't get any incentive from pharma. It's like, okay, but your incentive comes from your employer. You do get bonuses, and you do get incentives from your employer to meet certain measures, one of which may be vaccinated fully, because guess what?
They don't tell you, but they get an incentive from the manufacturers for doing that. So they pass some of that incentive onto you? Not all of it probably, but go ahead.
As is would be the case for a pediatrician in private practice, right? With no strings attached, they would be receiving the same,
no.
How could they be
from the pharmaceutical companies directly?
No, they don't do that.
Okay.
They're not that dumb, at least as far as I know. I could be wrong, but in my understanding, that's not something that they do. That's one of the reasons why the physicians in private practice, the few handful of pediatricians that I have ever met in private practice to a person, every single one of them, is fine with children in their practice who are not vaccinated or choose to slow roll the vaccines and do an alternative schedule.
They're, they may encourage their patients to receive vaccines, but they're not dogmatic about it. They're not, religious about it. Which makes sense because they don't have that financial incentive that the managed care doctors do.
Well, I, I think
the ones that are part of the big hospital systems
financial incentive might be driving some, I think others there, there's a large group of them that, that are saying that they're really have the interest of the child, the health of the child in mind.
Yeah. But that just doesn't make sense because if you're firing patients because they're not getting vaccinated, you're actually not serving their best interests. Because I'm gonna tell you what happens in, at probably at least half, if not eight out of 10 of those cases is they just don't have a pediatrician.
They never see the doctor. You, do you doubt that?
No.
Yeah. We do see some of them, naturopathically, we see some of those people because we tend to be more open to the idea of treating somebody, naturopathic pediatricians tend to at least be open to the idea of treating somebody or having patients that are not fully vaccinated or choose not to vaccinate or their know, their parents choose not to vaccinate them.
But I would say that's not something that, most people, well, most naturopathic physicians are not covered by insurance and, but they don't take insurance, I should say. And the other thing I would say is that we have a tendency to fly under the radar in the sense that a lot of people don't know about us.
Yeah.
And I'm I say us, I'm not an naturopathic pediatrician. I treat all patients regardless of age, cradle to grave. But I don't provide primary care anymore. I used to, we, we did that for, oh, probably eight, nine years and
not anymore.
And it absolutely just, with the time that you spend with people, yeah. Up to two to three hours for a lab review is just a completely different model than the five to 15 minute model.
Yeah. It is not typical that two to three hours, maybe that's an initial lab review, I would say. But like follow up lab reviews tend to be more like an hour and a half.
But I would say that, I think that's true. I remember being in insurance-based primary care practice and still, had mother mothers come in and sit down and we would go over the vaccine information statements from the CDC, and we'd look at the pros and the cons and the benefits and the incidents and mortality and morbidity of the disease, and also the vaccine and the potential side effects and, and then it would be their choice to get the vaccine or not.
And I didn't really, I didn't really do much more than just go over it with them and answer any questions that they had. And I can't remember anybody who then followed up from those visits and said, yeah, I want to go ahead and get the vaccine for my kid. But the thing is that those people were, they actually had informed consent.
They were fully informed, which is not something that 90, probably 90, well, at least 80% of people are just not,
yeah.
Either because they're not given the information or they're handed a piece of paper as they leave to walk out the door after their child has already been vaccinated. It's like, here's your informed consent for what you just did.
It's like, no, that's not really informed consent. But yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting thing. I'd be interested to talk to some pediatricians because I've heard. And I, again, I don't doubt that based on what you've told me of this gentleman's practice that he's not financially incentivized.
But if he has a private practice where he's not part of a big hospital system or he's not part of managed care organization, very possible that there's no financial incentive for him to have a fully vaccinated practice.
Well, we'll find out. And I just, I'm heartened by the rise of pediatricians, MDs who are standing, who are really standing for the education of parents.
Like the true informed consent of parents. Yeah. There's more rising in number. Good. And it's something to pay attention to.
Yeah. Well, I think the biggest challenge, and I think this is gonna define the next, oh, 20 years in general in society, and, we may want to talk a little bit more about this, but I think the biggest challenge is gonna be, do we retake institutions that have become totally biased in their approach?
Or do we create new ones? For example, just on like the medical side, do we try to retake the American Medical Association by having, the same doctors go ahead and pay for the membership of the organization and then vote out the current leadership, and do like, essentially a hostile takeover of the A MA or, do we prop up the American Academy of Physicians and Surgeons, which is the, frankly more conservative leaning, but also more integrative, holistic, natural medicine, welcoming and accepting alternate organization, which has been around, for a few decades, but I think probably is doing better now.
They were excellent during COV and they were really a voice of reason during COVID. And I think we have, they're more relevant now than they've ever been. And so is this the trend? Is the trend to understand that every profession is now going to become a bastion of political disagreement.
And we're gonna have a, a sort of ified leftist version and a conservative I don't know what a similar term the, whatever the opposite of woke is, conservative version. Are we gonna have that? Is that gonna be the alternative? I guess maybe traditional or non woke?
Or I guess no, see, that's the thing. Woke is a tricky term. I, for many years hesitated to use it, but I more become more and more comfortable using it because I think that I understand what it means now. 'cause I've listened to a lot of James Lindsay and I've actually met him and he's talked a lot about it, and it's pretty clear to me what it means.
And I think truly the idea of anti woke doesn't fully encompass what I'm describing. I'm really talking about what I think of as being non woke, which is the way the world has been for most of my life. Before you see some of the more culturally radical ideas like critical race theory, gender theory, queer theory a lot of the neo-Marxist.
Ideologies diversity, equity, and inclusion. Not to be confused with diversity, equality, and confu and inclusion, which I'm all for equality. I'm all for diversity, and I'm all for inclusivity. I just can't really get on board with equity. And actually, I'd love to do a whole episode on why equity is so problematic, because I had I have some really important thoughts on that, I think, which everybody needs to hear and more and more.
And actually why equity is doomed as a goal. Because in the pursuit of equity, what you end up with is the race to the lowest common denominator. And that will inevitably result in the decline and destruction of society. So more on that in a future episode when I come prepared with the receipts to discuss that.
But I,
well, it's just a quick analogy. You're a man, I'm a woman. I don't want equity between us. That's, I don't want that.
Yeah.
You are designed
well and just so we're clear, equity is like sameness, right? And so what you're saying is you don't want, you don't want us to basically behave and act the same.
No.
Yeah. Well, I think people in their heart of hearts, if they really listen to their heart, which a lot of people do, and some people don't would agree with that.
I think there's a a master design in which each of us plays a part, that that is very important to the inner workings of society and of
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that gets back to, the cultural front that we've been describing is only part of the picture. You also have the economic front.
And on that, as I've explained in the past, I couldn't be more of a radical leftist when it comes to economic issues. And that's actually a great segue. Well, maybe not more of a radical left is 'cause I do have some friends who are communist and that's not me. But I do think that it's a great segue to something that I wanted to talk about today.
If you're complete with the vaccine conversation,
I am. I'm just gonna harken back to something that I said on another episode. Oneness, not sameness.
Sure. Yeah. Well, oneness is something that we can all experience with each other because there's no place that I end. And you begin where do my Adams stop?
And your Adams begin. Can you tell?
No.
Yeah.
Universal Basic Income (UBI) Discussion
Okay, so we got a great question. I got a great question. And this is a question from Carrie.
Okay.
And it's about UBI universal basic income, and let's just take, it's a long one, so let's just take a portion at a time and when I wanna respond, I'll interrupt.
Okay?
Yeah. And do your best to make her sound good.
Oh, man. I think it can be spun to sound idyllic. No work. Just money coming in for free, just for breathing time to spend with your kids and family. Time to develop hobbies and interests. Taking life low and slow, if that's your preference. No pressure, no stress, no worries.
First of all, but first of all, this
money, hold on before you get into the first of all. Yeah. Okay. Because I wanna, I want define, because that's a great sort of utopian, idealistic view of maybe what people think of when they think of universal basic income, which a lot of people, for those who don't know that was something that I think will give Andrew Yang credit for in the, I guess that was the 2020 election where he introduced that idea and ran on the idea of UB. I said, look, AI's coming, our jobs are gonna get more and more automated. Robots are gonna take your jobs, AI's gonna take your jobs. Your job is basically gone. And Jeremy Rivkin wrote the end of work, 20 years ago now.
And I think that to some degree that was maybe a little premature, but I think we're headed there. And I think that AI is going to continue to displace more and more jobs. And I think that robotics is going to really kick it into high gear as soon as those become readily available, affordable, et cetera.
So I think it's a real thought, and I think that the framing that I wanna really give, and I have a conclusion I want to give to our I think probably based on what Carrie said but I'm not gonna give it yet, but the basic concept that I would want to put forward with regard to UBI as I see it, is that it's founded on the idea of a post scarcity society.
So it's a society where resources are so plin, plentifully available that it would really be considered to be. Unethical to allow anybody to be unhoused or homeless is the traditional term to describe the unhoused. And it would also be unethical to allow anybody to go hungry in such a world. And, some argue we're already there.
And certainly I think even among those who say we're not quite there, they would say, we're almost there. So given that either say something or proceed, whatever you wanna do.
No, keep going.
No I'm ready to hear more of the question. Okay. Yeah.
Economic Implications of UBI
But first of all, this money coming from the government, where are they getting it from?
Okay, pause there. 'cause that's a great question.
AI and Robotics Impact on Employment
The answer is they're getting it from the corporations that have fired all these people and replaced them with AI and robots. So these corporations we're talking about companies that are gonna have billions upon billions of dollars of profit and a dwindling number of employees with which to pay that money.
So you basically, you could see how, for example, back in the day you might have had a company like Boeing or Lockheed Martin, and they would employ thousands and thousands of people in order to make the latest cutting edge advanced technology right. Which was, jet planes and spaceships and that kind of thing.
Now you have companies like Google or Amazon, well, Amazon is different because they have delivery people, although those are gonna get replaced with drones. But let's say Google, PayPal, a lot of the startups literally was like, three to six guys and in, in some cubicle little space.
And they started up this company that ended up becoming a multi-billion dollar company. And still, let's just look it up. I'm actually really curious. So let's see. Lockheed Martin, total employees 2025. They have 120 1020 24. Okay. 121,000 employees. Let's look up Google. I'm just curious.
Well, they have more now. Okay, well, fair enough. Eight, 187,000. But if you look at their capitalization, like how much of the money that they're producing, I actually so they have a little bit more employees. Lockheed Martin, total profit. Yeah, Google's definitely expanded since the last time I looked at this.
So Lockheed Martin's 6.6 billion in profit. And then let's look at Google Total Profits. 115.57 billion. So that's the last 12 months. And that's net income, which is what we're looking, but then they, it's interesting. They list gross profit and then they net income. I'm assuming net income is the sort of apples to apples comparison there, but I don't know the difference is gross profit, gross income.
What do they mean by gross profit? It's a strange term. I'm obviously not an economist.
Yes.
You think that's gross income? Okay. All right. Well, so 115 billion compared to 6.7 billion. This is actually great 'cause it does prove my point. So let's run some quick math. So we have 115 divided by 6.6, so that's 17.4 times as much money that they're bringing in a year.
And if we could go back and look at their number of employees, it's 121,000 versus 187. So see if I go back to my calculator let's see, 187 divided by 121. So they have one and a half times as many employees, but they're making 17.4 times as much money.
It just goes to show you that these industries, these dot coms and tech industries are incredibly profitable, but they don't pay nearly as many people, per dollar, right? They technically pay a little more in terms of the total number, like one and a half times more basically.
But they have a lot more money to pull from, which is why they're so profitable. Well, just imagine as they fire more and more of those people and replace them with ai, which, Google's gonna be doing, they've already started doing it. Then that number is gonna get that, that profit number, even if the profit number stays the same, the number of employees is gonna go down to the point where, you know, the amount of profit per employee is gonna be astronomically large.
Redistribution of Wealth and UBI
Obviously we need to redistribute some of that money through the rest of the population because it's just two things. First of all, well, really three things, but first of all, the people that got fired and replaced by AI were still necessary in the creation of that profit. Just because they got replaced by the machines and by the software that they created, it doesn't mean that they don't deserve to share in some of the value that was created by them when they created those things.
Second of all, the people who are still employed by the company, who are basically the owners of the company at that point need to pay their fair share of taxes. And if they're, if their great skill is managing a company or starting a company or running a company, et cetera, then they really, to me, have an ethical obligation to share some of that gift with the rest of humanity.
And the third thing I would say is that by consuming their products, the people, the consumers also have an essential role in the entire system. And if you basically don't give them any money, then they won't be able to provide that value. Or they won't be able to consume the value that's being created by Google, and then the whole system will collapse.
So it's basically acknowledging all of those different elements by saying, Hey, we're gonna take some of that profit and we're gonna give it to the people so they can actually consume this product and we can keep the whole machine churning. Does that make sense?
It does. It's a whole lot of responsibility and accountability for that machine, though.
Which machine?
It's almost an about face to like our capitalistic roots.
Well, it's a great, it, I love what you just said because notice what is accepted without sort of an argument. People hear that and they're like, oh yeah, our capitalistic roots. What about those capitalism is really like a invention of the late 19th century. You have to remember before that we had mercantilism.
There was a lot of trading, a lot of ships going back and forth. People taking goods and selling 'em somewhere else where they were less common. That wasn't capitalism. Capitalism is a product of the industrial revolution where you were able to have factories, you were able to have machine works that were able to do the work of, several people that would take them a week or more to do it and do it in a day or an hour, and it was because of this technology that you had to require.
It was a lot of investment upfront to buy all the machines and that kind of thing. You had to have capital, right? It's where the term capitalism comes from. You have to invest that capital and then you get a return on your investment. It's the whole nature of capitalism. That kind of thing didn't really exist prior to the late 19th century, not in the way that it does now.
That's when true capitalism began. So our roots don't, are not sunk that deep. Okay. Our roots are pretty new, relatively speaking. If you really want to get into the nitty gritty of the history of capitalism, so don't get too attached is, that's all I'm saying.
I'm not attached to, what I'm really speaking to is an individual's opportunity to create. Yeah. To create their wealth.
And
well notice two things about what you just said.
Number one, the fact that wealth is tied to money implicitly in what you just said, which I don't agree with. And number two, and I suspect you don't agree with that either.
No, I don't. And number you're about money. And number two, notice how well are we though, I would argue we're talking about freedom but the second thing that you said is notice how you are tying the opportunity to create with, again, money. So let's keep going because I suspect that our friend Carrie, is going to bring up some of these
Sure
concerns and I want to address them.
Okay. So are we paying taxes out of our UBI?
Well, people who are making a lot of money on top of their UBI will still have to pay some tax, obviously. But people who are just doing the UBI and that's it, that's all they have. Why would they pay taxes on top of that? It doesn't make that much sense.
We could do that, but I just, I don't know. That's. We could negotiate that. I'm open. I'm open to a conversation there.
She says, even if we do that amount wouldn't be able to keep up with everyone's EBI
that amount wouldn't be able to keep up with. I think that you're underestimating the amount of value that's gonna be created by artificial intelligence and robotics and how astronomically large that number is.
You have to remember this, okay, we were just talking about this week. The Walton family in Walmart, the Walton family, one family has more wealth than the bottom 40% of our country. Okay. One family. Okay. So the money's out there. That's what I would say, but go ahead. Okay.
Second of all, I believe that we were designed by God to eat and drink and find enjoyment in our hard work.
And she cites, I would agree
with all that.
Ecclesiastes 2 24.
Yep.
These are gifts from God and don't you see, don't you see that in living color all around us? I know I do.
Yes. So that's a great point. I agree with it completely and here's what I'm gonna say. Absolutely. But hard work doesn't necessarily create value for others, which is what a capitalist system rewards.
So a capitalist system doesn't care about the intrinsic value of what you produce, it doesn't care about the value of what you produce to you or even to your family. Capitalist system could give a rats, what about that value? Capitalist system only cares about the value of what you are creating with your work to someone else and what they're willing to pay for that value.
Yes. I've spoken to so many nine to fivers, who I just think that's a form of oppression in a lot of cases that they, well, there's a
reason why we call it wage slavery.
Yeah.
Because it is a form of slavery, whether people wanna realize it or not.
Overworked and stressed and away from their families.
And yeah, there's I think there's,
Delighting in your hard work and finding enjoyment in hard work, I think if you take a poll, between a lot of people who are in the corporate world and exhausted and burned out, like, is that really enjoyment?
Not at all. Not at all. And I would say that there's a lot of work that people do and enjoy doing and wanna do if they had the time.
If they had the space, if they had the mental space, if they had the, their financial basic needs taken care of, who knows what people would create. I think we'd be amazed by it.
Yeah. And I was gonna say I, we run in a circle of entrepreneurs, right? But I used to be in a circle of like me, I was in corporate, but with my side gig, like really wanting to start up something creative and launch off on my own. There's a lot of those people, and that's where they, that's where they find enjoyment. 'cause I think through the hard work that comes from
something that, that you source, like from your own essence, your own creativity, your own of your own design, not somebody else's, is is fruitful, is an, and really quite the where the enjoyment is and where the initiation is. I think entrepreneurship is oh my gosh, it's such a, for me, it's such a spiritual initiation, and a portal through which you can experience elation and resignation and disappointment and celebration all in.
Maybe the course of 20 minutes.
Well, and there's no doubt in my mind that with UBI, you'll actually see more entrepreneurship, more entrepreneurs, more people saying, well, I don't want to just be satisfied with this UBI, although I am grateful for it, and I appreciate that I don't have to go, bow and scrape and, do put in my dues, quote unquote, at the local factory, whether that be a cubicle or a factory to get my meager needs met.
But I am now also grateful that I have or, and I now have the opportunity to go and create what I've always wanted to create.
I think it will lead to the like be a catalyst, for people to to discover that about themselves. Absolutely. Like for you to ask somebody, if you didn't have to do your, go to your JOB, what is it that you would create?
Yeah. Ask any child and they will tell you. Our son is always talking about like, mommy he just made some amazing grain free refined sugar free cookies last night. And he used like a bee juice food coloring. Said, mommy, I can sell these.
Yeah. And just like literally hands off, like we didn't even, I was like, oh, he is cooking something in there.
Like I didn't even get involved, I think I got asked what temperature to put the oven and like roughly how long to start checking the cookies.
And they were so beautiful and they were good.
Yeah. So I guess what I would just say is, to me I think that the goal here is to move not from a, society that we have now the is to move from the society we have now, which is the society of the haves and the have-nots to a society of the haves and the have mores.
'cause you're not gonna get rid of income inequality, you're not gonna get rid of that. There's gonna be some people who have more money than other people. That's inevitable. It's part of human nature. But the goal is to make sure that everyone is taken care of and provided for it on a basic level so that they have the opportunity to become their best self.
So again, society of the haves and have mores. That's what we're going for here with the UVI.
But I want to hear more of what she has to say. Go ahead. No you
first. With this catalyst, I think people will have an opportunity to rediscover themselves, to put away all the years of programming.
Okay. I go to school and I take tests and then I graduate and then I have to go to college. And then I find a corporate job, that I'm supposed to be happy with.
Well, not only that, but with easier access to AI and robotics, anybody can start almost any business with minimal initial outlay. Like you'll be able to probably rent a high powered AI system, by for, now you can do it for 20 bucks a month and rent a robot.
You can imagine this, like it's not that far off. And then you'd be like, we're starting a business. Okay sir, what would you like me to do? Like
you, the rising demographic that is using AI to start businesses. Can you guess
probably like Gen Z if I had to guess. Yes. Yeah,
absolutely.
And teenagers.
Yeah. That's fantastic. See, which is what I'm talking Yes. Which really
speaks to Yeah.
Yeah. While they're still under their parents.
Yes.
UBI is when they're like, okay, now let's do something.
Yeah. And they don't
have to, but they're doing it. Which proves my point, I think to some degree.
But let's keep going. I want to hear all of it.
Okay. There was all of her pushback there. There's more about the the gifts from God.
Go ahead.
I love that. 'cause I'm a hundred percent aligned with that.
Yes. Absolutely. 'cause everybody has a gift.
Agreed.
Everybody. A hundred percent. Everybody is like a something that they can massively contribute to humanity that would make a difference for people.
Yeah. Okay. People who, she says, people who work hard and find satisfaction or more in that hard work and who balance it with spirituality, a rich family life. What's it say?
Support probably and enjoyment. Support and enjoyment
of friends and of course spirituality and whatever else interests them on this big, beautiful planet are the happiest people I know.
Yeah. You're right about that.
I agree.
Okay. People who do not work. And remember I am a social worker of many years, so I feel deeply for people who cannot work. So I am not talking about the ill, the disabled, the aged, the fragile, but people who are well able to work, but just plain don't.
And in my new career these last few years as the hiring manager at a medium sized steel mill, I see a plenty of those.
Interesting.
Yeah. And these people are just plain lazy. Capitalize and with a period at after letter. Yeah. So which by the way is one of my pet peeves.
Okay. But pause there.
I want to address that a little bit. Okay. I'm gonna I may be, first of all, I'm gonna say I may be wrong about this 'cause I don't know. 'cause I can't read people's minds that well. Madi's always saying, I'm a mind reader, but I'm not that good of a mind reader. So I'm not sure that I can tell the difference between someone who is, mentally ill.
They've got a lot of emotional trauma and maybe even has physical illness that they're not present to. And someone who is lazy.
Because I think, and this could be my rose colored, bleeding heart liberal glasses. But I truly believe that people want, in their heart of hearts to contribute to the world to make a difference. I think they feel often feel thwarted. And like that they can't make a difference and that nothing they do or say matters and they get resigned and cynical and hopeless.
I get that. But I would say that's part of like a mental illness, frankly. It may be, if you wanna label it, you could say it's a mild form of, maybe dysthymia, which is like a mild form of depression or, it, if you wanna label it, you can label it.
I'm not crazy about labels as but I would just say that, I would say that if I can take someone, anyone that you think is lazy, and I can, if I can first address their fundamental wellness, make sure they're getting high quality sleep at the same time every night, seven and a half to nine hours of sleep every night at the same night, if I can get them optimized, healthy nutrition for their physiology, if I can get them eating organic whole foods, for their blood type, et cetera. If I can get them moving their body on a regular basis, 20 to 40 minutes, four to six times a week, if I can. Depending on the intensity, right? 20 minutes high intensity, 40 minutes low to moderate intensity. If I can get those things in place, if I can get them a friend, right?
Which a lot of people need a friend, they need a coach, they need a champion. They need somebody to support them. 'cause they don't have anybody. If I can get them an opportunity to do something that they love and en and enjoy, that they really love, just love doing that's, it's playful.
It's not for any particular end. So it can reignite their spirit. And then I can also get them in, either probably a combination of like transformational work where they actually get that they're not their past, that anything is possible for them. That any of the limiting beliefs that they've made up over the years that constrain them, constrain their way of being, constrain their way of acting can just if they can actually start to develop themselves in the tools that help them put that stuff aside and come from possibility and live from possibility.
And then they can also work with someone who's, facile in, for example, things like E-M-D-R-E-F-T, ways to deal with trauma and PTSD and phobias and things like that, that are on more of the mental health side. And we take this really holistic approach. Maybe I just believe that anybody that you know, that, that occurs as like lazy, we could probably transform that person into somebody who's actually out to make a difference for the planet.
I just really think that's possible. The biggest impediment I would say in my experience, in my 15 years of practice and just, 45 years of life at this point, is people's coachability. Are you willing to be contributed to? Are you open to contribution? Are you willing to be coachable because, you could have all the money in the world available to someone.
And if they're not willing to take on coaching, if they're not willing to to do all the things that I just mentioned or to, like let's say for example you had, forget about UBI for a minute. Let's say you had unlimited money to work with a particular person on that as a social worker, right?
And you had unlimited funds and you could do all the things I just said, and I know that the limiting issue there would be their willingness to take it on and actually do it. And that's the one thing I have to say. There's motivational interviewing, which is something that we learned to to help address that to some degree.
And possibility has a very short shelf life. So really I think the most important part of that is that accountability partner. Who is right there with them being like, okay, well how did today go? And that's why the people who succeed in those 12 step programs that, have such a low success rate, I think it's like 15%.
But the 15% that do succeed are the ones that really have a great, relationship to accountability. They have a sponsor that they're in communication with. They go to meetings on a regular basis. They, when they're struggling, they lean in. And I don't know the magic, I don't have a magic pill that has people lean in and be coachable.
And be compliant. If I did, I think we could solve all the world's problems. But I think that did you have anything you wanted say about any of that? Yeah, go ahead. It's such
A beautiful template for all of life, actually.
Not just for
even spiritual, frankly. Yeah,
absolutely. Yeah. For really empowered marriages and any relationship anything that you want to do, like parenting and entrepreneurship.
You have all of those blocks in place. And I would add just one more. If you plop that person into a community that is supportive, and that also calls you out for your bs. And. And is that environment that will create that, that you can source, for that, for your own transformation, then any, anything is possible.
Yeah. Excuse me. You could have the wildest, marriage of your life. You could have the the abundance, that you've always dreamed of, financially and also in your relationships and friendships. Yeah. You could be a really present and loving mom and dad.
Yeah. Wouldn't that be great? Yeah. For the future of humanity,
it would surely like clear the space for so many things.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah.
Community and Social Support
Well, and I think that, what you just pointed out, the community is, it's essential for human thriving, and that's one of the things I think that we learned through COVID in terms of what was missing during COVID the most is community.
And I think that's and it really does need to be in person. It can't just be online.
Yeah.
COVID-19 and Social Isolation
So co COVID, speaking of COVID there's like a biochemical happening that isolation causes
well, we're social animals. We have to be social. That's part of our essence, our nature.
Yeah. It actually does something. It impacts your brain function.
Yeah.
It's like cooping up a mom, to raise her kids alone. With no community support. We're talking about, we're so isolated these days. And in, in other cultures, you're raising your kids with your mom, your grandma, your aunts and your uncles, and everybody's around.
Yeah. It's interesting because
You're having adult conversations. Correct. Which stimulate your brain.
Correct.
Yeah.
Yeah. People think that the traditional wife is like the wife from the 1950s, and it's like, no, that was an aberration that came out of the post World War II world where, there was like this picture
perfect.
Well, but it was like a, it was almost like a, I forget the word, but it's basically like people going off into their own little silos. And that was weird. My mom was sharing with us the other day about how my grandmother would complain about the fact that my mom moved. Three hours away and then her sister moved three hours away and everyone was so far away.
Was my grandmother's comment because when my grandmother grew up, they had all this family that was just right there around them in Houston.
Yeah. And then I think with the advent of TV and like ads, like people saw, like just these single family homes and it became ingrained,
Generation after generation. Yeah. Like this sub suburbia,
it's the ification. Yeah. There you go.
It's not,
yeah. It's
not normal.
Yeah. It's no more normal than capitalism, by the way.
Ah, you got me.
Alright, keep going. So you think,
And I think that UBI would foster laziness in an unparalleled way.
The WE FS 2030.
Well, let's just take a look at the, at, I want to hear what she has to say, but just if you just look at the small studies that they've done on UBI, the vast majority of people spend the vast majority of that money on groceries. So it's like not, like it's not and there were actually, there was also evidence, I remember listening to some of the reports on it where people did sometimes.
Get better jobs as a result of being able to like, have the breathing room to actually not take the first job that came along because I need to eat, but like, oh my God, I can actually get some food and survive and look for a job that actually works for me. Even if that's all you're doing, even if you're not doing the entrepreneurship thing.
Yeah.
So go ahead, keep going.
Yeah. So the wfs, and she says in parentheses 2030, so I know what she said, forum, you'll own nothing and be happy. Can Sure. Sound appealing. Who needs the struggles of owning anything when everything we need is generously handed to us?
Yeah, so I think this is a totally different topic, which I also think is an interesting topic and I tend to agree with Carrie here a hundred percent on that one.
I think that the decline in home ownership in this country is catastrophic. I think we should ban investment firms and foreign investors from purchasing property residential property in this country. I don't think that. I, and that's something RFK Jr ran on when he ran for president.
And I, it was one of the things I loved about his campaign and his platform. 'cause I thought that was so fantastic. And I was actually really bummed to hear he's not gonna run in 2028. So I don't know who I'm voting for in 2028 now. But anyway.
Oh, I'm gonna jump back. I was going to say something about you have, are we gonna take over the are we going to take over the a MA?
Is that what you said? Well, I was
saying that we have a choice right now as a society, which strategy we're gonna use. Are we gonna take over existing institutions and reclaim them or are we gonna create alternative parallel institutions that will eventually replace them? And the answer may be a little bit of both.
I don't know, but it'll be interesting to see what happens.
Seeing it, with the, okay, so RK Juniors doing his work, and it's having an impact on, what the CDC says. So the a p is going to like split and like say hey here's what we still recommend, including the COVID vaccine.
Ugh.
How much money do they get from pharma directly or indirectly each year?
Yeah. Okay. I'm
curious. I'm gonna look that up. Okay. So Molly Molly's gonna have to do a lot of trimming with this episode, but that's okay.
It's okay. We
just keep all this.
So
how much,
I think it's already arising, and then you have a lot of pediatricians and MDs, that are questioning the system that they're in, and they're they're giving voice to it.
So I think it's organically rising already. I think there are going to be different factions, different
yeah, well,
different fields of thought and this is what will happen. It will give the people an opportunity to discover for themselves what full informed consent is if they do the research.
Yeah, but I guess my concern there is the balkanization of society is just gonna keep getting more and keep getting worse and worse.
Media Influence and Society Division
Where basically, people are gonna be getting more and more divided depending on their media source that they, I'm already experiencing that with some of my family members. Yeah. Where, they don't listen to our podcast, they don't listen to any of the same media we listen to.
They're still listening to like, NPR and M-S-N-B-C and, which, I did for many years, so I get it. But I also now know that those organizations are totally beholden to pharma and probably other industries as well. 75 plus percent of their ad spend comes from pharma. Let's see here.
Well, the choice will be before you
and whether you choose to look or,
well, literally what they'll say is like, oh, independent media is known to le to lean right wing. But literally when they say that the sources that they cite are from M-S-N-B-C and it's like, well, but M-S-N-B-C is known to lean left wing. And so of course they would think anyone that's to the right of them on any topic is right wing.
But it's not necessarily that doesn't make it true. You have to evaluate the veracity of their claims independently. Yeah, so basically the a P does not have to disclose how much money they receive from the pharmaceutical company. And then we have listed several different historical examples.
Like, in 2017, Pfizer gave them 150,000 says companies in the President circle that contribute 50,000 or more each year, including Pfizer, Merck, Sanofi with Regeneron, Genentech, Eli Lilly, et cetera.
Pharma Companies and Vaccine Advocacy
So they don't disclose exact totals, only tier ranges. So most of the pharma companies are giving at least $50,000 or more, and they don't tell you exactly what the or more is.
So basically what we would expect. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm gonna finish reading Carrie's.
Go ahead. Sorry. I just, I felt like that was, 'cause it was it's germane to the comment to this whole issue. You brought up a couple times about that they're saying, oh no, you need all the vaccines. Be sure to get 'em all.
Don't leave one out.
Yeah.
It's like, okay, well we know who's buttering your bread.
Yes.
Government and Conspiracy Theories
So who needs the struggles of owning anything when everything we need is generously handed to us or sent by drones to our lovely residents? But do we think the government is really just going to happily support all of us?
I don't let the conspiracy theories out of, let the conspiracy theories outta the box here for a minute, but clearly, hold
on a second before you get to the conspiracy theories. I just wanna say one thing about what she just said, which is we get to decide what the government is going to do. We're, we, this is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people at least as far as I checked, most recently.
Knock on wood. And it's up to us whether it stays that way, we get to choose and if we wanna let it and that's one of the things that I feel frustrated with about our political system as I feel like that, and maybe she's gonna get to this with her conspiracy theories, but I feel that we as a country to easily surrender our our vote essentially in, in the sense that, we're too willing to believe that our vote doesn't count, or that our vote doesn't matter or that we have to vote for, one of the two major parties or, any, this is like a constant struggle.
I have, this is my frustration with the. Not only what happened with Bobby Kennedy, but also what happened with Ralph Nader, and also what happened with Ross Perot and, any third party candidate that runs in this country. The research on the Ross Perot, for example, is that if everybody who wanted to vote for Ross Perot had voted for Ross Perot, he would've won.
And we have that. Now. It's, you can look it up, just Google it. So it goes to show you that our limiting beliefs, getting back to limiting beliefs are what constrain us as a society. Not, the powers that be. As long as we have the right to bear arms in this country, we have a government that should fear us and not vice versa, but please proceed.
Okay. Let the conspiracy theories out of their box here for a minute, but clearly the government is corrupt and does not have our best interest at heart. Do we think that will miraculously change?
Not miraculously.
And regarding our government, many people believe, that, are they actually just sock puppets or some other evil faction?
The elite. The globalists. The cabal them. And if you believe some people, they think that useless eaters will be dumbed down by video games and drugs. Others think that the masses simply won't be welcome on planet Earth in the possibly sc near future.
Well, let's pause there. So
Nutritional Concerns and IQ
drugs are a real concern, but not just illegal drugs. I would say also pharmaceutical drugs, also pesticides. Also, we know fluoride in the water decreases iq. What's the other thing that nutritionally the push toward having the push toward, eating a lot of fake processed products.
Like they're doing this manufactured meat stuff now, which,
impossible.
Yeah, impossible meats and beyond meats and all these kind of things. I don't think that those are healthy foods, even if they are vegetarian. I think that they're. Heavily processed and, impossible is in fact genetically modified.
They own that and they actually advertise that it's, oh, this is how we're able to achieve such yummy product. I think that what is the other thing? I remember listening to Jordan Peterson the other day, and he and his daughter Michaela were talking about IQ and health, environmental determinants of IQ and DHA supplementation increases iq.
But, factory farming of animal products removes the DHA from them. So you have to get deep sea fish, grass fed meats and things like that if you want your DHA from your diet, other than fish oil supplements. But I have all of my pediatric patients, including our own children on fish oil supplements for that reason.
Breastfeeding and Child Development
Oh, breastfeeding. Breastfeeding increases IQ by seven points on average. Huge. It's the largest benefit we have from any single intervention. And I believe that's breastfeeding for up to six months at a, sorry, a minimum of six months. We really recommend, and I'm speaking for you, but you can feel free to pipe up.
We really recommend minimum two years. And then beyond that ideally you let the child self wean so they decide when they're done breastfeeding sometimes, you have to say, okay, you're done. Certainly by the time the child loses their first tooth, they should be done breastfeeding.
But most children will wean somewhere between, ages two and four on their own. Anything else you wanted to say about that?
Yes, I just wanna acknowledge myself for having a cumulative seven years of breastfeeding.
Yes. Alright. Well, our children can thank you for their iq, but and that, that actually points to the catastrophic reality of trying to do stuff like well, not breastfeeding number one and doing like fake breast milk, which is, I think this is the one of the latest Bill Gates projects.
Yeah. Which I like to sing the song from the it's a Tim Burton classic, the Nightmare Before Christmas, I remember before Christmas. And it's the inimitable who's the composer? Eric what's his name? That's gonna annoy me. Well, Molly, you're gonna have to, I gotta look this up. That's gonna annoy me.
I'm gonna have to trim this, Molly.
It'll probably come to me right as I find it.
Oh,
Danny Elman,
Daniel El,
Danny Elfman is also the composer of the Wednesday soundtrack, by the way. So they're still working together, but it's the song that goes Making Christmas. But I like to say making breast milk
because it's like this creepy song where they're like making these Christmas gifts and they're like these horrible, frightening things. So to me that's like, that's just, I imagine all like that, all those characters with like Bill Gates head replacing their heads and it's like a bunch of Bill Gates, creepy creatures, and they're like making breast milk
and
assembly line.
Anyway, go ahead.
Okay. Just a
little aside there. Okay.
Universal Basic Income (UBI) Debate
So Carrie says, and at what cost would the UBI come with? It could come with total control of where we go, what we do, what we wear and eat, who we spend time with, and what we do with our time.
Now, that I would actually say is the biggest concern that I actually agree with.
A hundred percent. That is like the first pushback where I'm like, yes, that's a legitimate concern. And that would obviously have to be dealt with. And it literally, the way that it would have to work would literally be the same way that like, EBT food stamps work now, where it's like, here's a credit card, here's a debit card.
Money is gonna go toward, into that, that account every month at a certain day. And you can spend that how you wanna spend it. Now, I do asterisk. I do believe that it would be permissible and we could have this discussion. I'd love to have you on the show, Carrie and we could have this a live discussion.
But I would say this, I think that the, because this is a really, a lot of great questions, a lot of great feedback here. The question becomes how are you going to restrict people, say, using it to buy a bunch of illegal drugs, right? Or, in the case of food stamps, a bunch of soda, I'm a big proponent of restricting refined sugars from food stamps.
I think if a product has more than 10 grams of refined sugar per serving, it should not be purchasable using food stamps. Absolutely. Because you have to look at like, what is, what are things that every nutrition expert agrees on? And that's the standard. It's like if there's a nutrition ex, there's a, if it's divided, and it's like, well, some people think meat's healthy and some people think meat's not healthy.
You gotta let people buy meat. It's like that's, you can't argue with that. But if it's like every single nutritionist agrees that too much sugar is bad for you, which they do. I've never heard anyone credible other than like people working for the sugar industry, which I don't consider them credible, and I don't think anybody does.
Like everybody agrees that refined sugar is not healthy. So if it's too much refined sugar, just no, you can go make your own money and spend it on that if that's what you want. So I think this is something where I'm in favor of a little more restriction and I think with UBI, there would have to be maybe some restrictions along those lines where it's like, you can't use this to buy illegal drugs.
You can't use this to just buy a bunch of GD sugar. You can't use this to. I don't know. Those are the main things that come to my mind. Alcohol, maybe, maybe we say, look, if you wanna drink alcohol, you've gotta go and or buy cigarettes. You've gotta go and make some money.
'cause those things are not something we wanna subsidize as a society. Alcohol industry's gonna hate me for saying that one. So it's the cigarette industry, but whatever. I don't know. What do you think, what would be things that you would restrict, if any, on a UBI system?
Just thinking of all the bureaucratic red tape, that, that would require I would restrict nothing. Okay. Yeah. I would restrict nothing and leave it up to the evolution of the self.
I don't see anybody.
Yeah. I would restrict nothing and leave the leave it to evolution.
Well see. There you go. You're more of a, Darwinist and libertarian than I am perhaps, but that's funny. And that's fine. That's great. I love that. I love that we disagree on some things, and I would say that it makes, our relationship more interesting that way.
But
and at the same time, I think, entrepreneurs would like come out of the woodwork, and they would start contributing to society and make a difference for people. And I think when we have so much of that, when we have more of that, people will, they'll want to evolve, especially with your template, especially with what we do.
We offer that. So much of what you said
Mental Health and Personal Stories
we do, I guess what I would say is to me, there's a lot of people who have mental illness and it gets back to the whole conversation around laziness. I think to me people who have mental illness and especially substance abuse, which is a form of mental illness sometimes need some help.
And sometimes, and I look, I think we have to pair this with single payer healthcare. But that's a whole nother conversation.
I need tissue. Okay. I, there's something that happened this summer that totally moved me.
Just hold on 'cause we're gonna pause this section 'cause I don't want everybody to see I'm, so let's start over.
Okay. All right.
They don't get to see me from the waist down unless they pay, subscribe to their fees.
Okay. So you
obviously we're gonna cut that. Molly,
go ahead.
All right. You just said that people need support with their mental health, right? Yes. Yes. Okay. So it had me I got immediately moved just remembering something that happened over the summer. And I wanna talk about my own evolution over the summer. So I think a lot has had, a lot has happened, that I am making, I am having what happened, make a big difference for me.
And since you mentioned mental health I was at Natural Grocers and I met this young gentleman by the name of Tristan. and he was helping me with something. And I was holding my phone with a stand with the octopus, the big old octopus stand. And he said, oh, an influencer. And I said, actually, and we have a podcast.
And I I shared the he popped out his phone and I shared it with him. And he took a look at it and I shared with him briefly what we were about. And he said, it spurred something in him, like it inspired something in him. And he said that, he told me his story and he said that when he was 17 he held a gun to his, okay.
Do, am I supposed to say like trigger warning?
Well, yes, that would be appropriate. Okay. Given that this involves a potential suicide ideation, I think that's a good idea.
So thank you. It does
trigger warning.
So Tristan at 17 held a gun in his mouth and he pulled the trigger. And somehow, the bullet, like of
You might not want to use his actual name when telling the story without his permission.
Oh.
Especially 'cause you've identified where he works.
Oh, okay. All right. So let's,
okay. I'm just, I'm throwing that out there. 'cause I, yeah.
Okay.
Okay. Let me, what do I go back? Okay.
Just don't say his name. Just say, I met a gentleman, a young man at Natural Grocers, and
I was shopping at Natural Grocers, and I met this young gentleman who worked there, and I was holding my phone with a big old octopus, stand. And he made this comment, he said oh, you're an influencer.
And I re I replied, or I retorted right away. No, actually we have a podcast. It's called The Partovi Effect. And it's about, the navigating the sea of disinformation when it comes to health and education and politics. And he whipped out his phone and he looked up the podcast and then he felt moved to share his story with me.
And he said that, when I was 17 I put a gun in my mouth and I pulled the trigger and, somehow, I am, I lived. I was just like, first I was like, okay, I'm, I utterly shocked and moved by that. And he said, this county has one of the highest suicide rates.
And I've had this idea to start this movement called talk to me. Like, talk to me. Like imagine having a seeing those, seeing that phrase on t-shirts, seeing seeing it all over social media. Like, talk to me, a lot of people need somebody to talk to, like you said, they need a mentor or a coach, somebody that's by their side, keeping them accountable and providing that access to have them pull themselves out of the darkest depth.
Yeah. So he said I wanna start this movement.
And so this speaks to both like what we're talking about. Like, if this gentleman were to have access to that EBI, like, I know what he would do with it. I think
other people serve as a, like an inspiration or a catalyst, for others, like if you like in, in community, like we can get, we can accomplish a lot. So there were just the two of us in community right there. Sharing something very vulnerable. And then, it inspires him to see, oh, look at what we create.
Look at what we created within the time span of a year. Like a great podcast, where we share our deepest moments and our voice. So he was lit up by this and I said, absolutely. Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna look for that. Okay. I'm gonna look for you starting, this movement, that would really be a massive contribution to this county where this is happening.
Yeah.
Yeah. And this, I think this guy was not more than like mid twenties. Maybe early twenties.
So I think that story, that share touched on a lot of things
Yeah.
That we've been talking
about. Well, absolutely. And it points to, the, it points to the hopelessness, economic hopelessness that a lot of young people feel. It points to what would be available if they were to have. Based evidence met and the kind of things they might create and how they would help people.
It, yeah. It speaks to how they might, how people who've dealt with mental health and mental illness issues may be freed up to support people currently dealing with them, rather than maybe working at Natural Grocers. Not that we don't need people at working at Natural Grocers 'cause we do, 'cause I like to shop there, but more that if your true calling is to go and support people who are currently dealing with mental health or substance abuse or whatever issues, go do that.
And you shouldn't be constrained by frankly, needing to have, 16 letters after your name or needing to have, three different degrees or needing to have a bunch of money in the bank.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
It does.
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
Yeah. I completed that interaction by letting him know that, you're a miracle, I celebrate your life. I gave him a hug.
Yeah. Well, and I actually encountered this guy the next time I was at the, at Natural Grocers, which I didn't realize.
The background at the time, but he's like, oh, I recognize you're from the podcast. I'm like, yeah, that's me. I was wearing my like, medical misinformation kills or so, or no medical censorship.
Medical censorship. Yep.
Kills lit Phil Triple C shirt. Yeah. And he was like, oh yeah, I know you.
Like, well, it was the first time I've ever been recognized in person, like in the store by a fan. But, so that was cool.
All right. Well, yeah,
so I think that, I think just the moral of that is that I am constantly, I, when encountering people and having and hearing their most vulnerable stories I get that often, people share with me. And I am just utterly and thoroughly moved by humanity, by people.
Yeah. Like, and what's in them. And I think we have like the rope movements that we go through every day, but I think they're, that people do think about these things, that they do want to be, they do wanna make a difference, from something that has has transformed their life.
He is choosing to live.
Yeah.
Yeah. He's choosing to live and his life means something and it means a lot. And to people that really need that that support and that kind of that kind of outreach, he's gonna be that person.
Yeah.
Yeah. Heck yeah. UBI,
yeah. I
can tell you several other stories, that what people would be inspired to create.
Well, Joe Rogan has talked extensively about how he wouldn't even exist today if his family hadn't had, food stamps and Medicaid and other financial support at the time because that's, they had a rough time when he was a kid and that's what they needed to get through it. There's a lot of people like that.
So
yeah, like the resilience of the human spirit. And I remember, I, I remember back to the story of that Waldorf School in San Diego. And these parents would walk across the border every day so their child could go to that Wal Walder school.
Yeah.
I think if people really tapped in, like to the resilience of their human spirit, like there's a lot to be uncovered there.
There's just so much.
Yeah.
Yeah. I know you're. Constantly moved by that.
It's like
we have a whole stack of tissues here to prove it.
Does she say anymore?
I think so.
She does. Oh my gosh. It's a lot.
Okay, we better move through it more quickly then.
Okay. Well, all right. I love this. Okay, let me get myself together.
Yes.
Okay. What were we,
whoop. Okay. So there was, I would come with total control. That's,
yeah,
I remember that. Yeah.
And I think it just, obviously depends totally on the implementation.
Yeah. It could come with constant surveillance and intrusion. This displease them and your assets are frozen or locked or just disappear or worse, who knows?
15 minute cities.
Yeah. I sound
so warm and cozy, but what about the reality? Do you wanna stop there?
Yeah, I think it totally depends on, your conception. I think that the whole point of universal means that it's not something that could be withheld from anyone for any reason, period.
It's universal, right? It's a right, it would become a right, it would become enshrined, okay. In our society. Just like the right to vote, the only way that it would get withdrawn is maybe if you're like a felon in jail, that kind of thing. And even then, maybe not, like, I don't know, like I, I'd much rather, you're like, I'd rather not have any restrictions on how it gets used.
I'm like, I'd rather it not have any restrictions on who gets it than to have the wrong restrictions. So I think it's better to just give it to everyone no matter what. Once maybe they get to be a certain age, probably like 16, maybe 18, I don't know, but yeah.
Okay. 15 minute cities sounds so warm and cozy, but what about the reality?
What if everything you need isn't in that radius or or isn't in that radius? You're allowed it. Does that make sense?
It does. She's talking about what happened in China during COVID, but like I am, categorically opposed to all that kind of stuff.
Okay. And there, there's punishment when you move outside of it.
In my opinion, EBI would breed complete and utter dystopia. It sounds, if it sounds too good to be true and all that, or if it sounds too good to be true and all that, the potential ramifications are, in my honest opinion, horrendous. And I'm not even a sci-fi fan.
Well, I think that's why that they seem horrendous.
That's so great that she said that because I think that sci-fi gives us a sandbox, a playground to play around with these ideas. And actually, before we even got to this point, I, my, my ending we're gonna end on some sci-fi and a recommendation for her. But I would say that because you have not seen how it could go Right.
Your brain is like, this isn't gonna only go wrong. And I get that, but you have to see how it could go. So you have an opportunity to consider both sides, I would say. All right, go ahead. Okay.
Now don't read ahead. Just I was, you're reading ahead. I don't wanna do that.
A couple more thoughts before I end this rant. If it ever happens, I'm sure UBI would be presented and promoted as all lollipops and rainbows. The best life ever is now here, folks. But changes could be,
I imagine it being hotly debated and maybe passing by like three votes but maybe it will be all lollipops and rainbows.
I don't know. I think it's, I think it, it has to go through, this is all part of the process, this conversation, this feedback that she's provided. All of this is part of the process leading up to UBI and A UBI that we actually would want to have, not a UBI that would lead to dystopia. Great. Let's keep up the conversation.
Okay. But changes could be swift and sudden, or they could be insidious, but changes would come, how could they not? And just look at history. There's no shortage of atrocities that have been committed in this world, and in one way or another, they are all repeatable. I don't think it would be long until the rules stacked up mightily everywhere we go and everything we do, including our allowable or mandated medical care, our living conditions.
The resources we consume, every dollar we spend, our food, drink, communication, spoken words, and or even our thoughts, who knows, could be surveyed, monitored, and scrutinized, and all that information would go into a virtual plus or minus tally sheet. Sounding like a Black Mirror episode here.
Yeah.
Look, I think that maybe yeah, that sci-fi would appeal to maybe her because it would reflect her version of reality. But that's not that I don't like Black Mirror for that reason. Yeah.
I stopped watching that after like the
little, it's a little too much
second episode.
Yeah. I think there's a few things that come up for me from what she just said.
I think that or what you just read anyway, I think first and foremost, we get to decide how it goes as a society in conversation, it's not gonna be any sudden thing. And in terms of changing it, we get to decide how changeable it is and how accessible it is to change by how we do it.
If we did it as a constitutional amendment for example, it wouldn't be very open to change. Even if we did it as a law, it would be hard to change. 'cause you'd have to get political will to change it. It's not easy to change Medicare, we've seen that. They've been trying to raise the age and they can't do it 'cause nobody will let 'em.
'cause there's too much pushback. So I think that in general, it's harder to change things that are popular and this would be extremely popular. It's harder to change things than you'd like.
Privacy and Surveillance Concerns
The other thing that I would say is that, you get into the idea of surveillance and that's a tricky issue because and I have what's probably an unpopular view on that, which is that people should just not do anything that they wouldn't want the whole world to know and that they've done or seen them do.
And they should never be ashamed of anything that they do. So it's a two part thing, right? It's like on one hand, never be ashamed of anything you do, which is a mental state, right? Like, be proud of everything you do and say. And then the other thing is. Don't ever say or do anything that you're not gonna be proud of if the whole world knew or knew you said or did it.
And then that way you don't deal with all these work concerns about privacy because I actually think privacy is illusion. I don't think we've had privacy since the Patriot Act, at least maybe before that. But at least since the Patriot Act privacy has been, bye bye-bye gone out the window. And so I think it's an illusion anyway.
And so I think because of that, concerns about privacy are I think largely something to have you be anxious, but it's like not worth being anxious about, just don't do anything that you wouldn't be proud if the whole world knew that you did it. And I think if you're, you've quoted scripture a few times, I think that you find that principle is echoed through scripture in the sense that it's like, don't be, don't do anything that you wouldn't be proud to defend against, St.
Peter at the pearly gates. And you'll be fine. And I think that concept is the same for humanity. And, feel free to disagree or push back. 'cause I know that is a controversial take. What do you think?
I'm good. What you said.
Really. Okay. So maybe that works for more than me.
I just think that people put a lot of emphasis on privacy and worried about being surveilled. And if you
have a device, if you have a handheld device, if you have the internet your information is all out there and your devices are listening.
They really are. Yeah. And you know that because you'll be talking about something that you haven't talked about in six months and then like, it'll show up on your feed, whether it be Facebook or YouTube or whatever, later that day.
It's really
quick these days.
Yeah.
Try talking about something and then you pull up a social media app and the ad will Yeah. Be there.
No, there was one time I was yelling at, our, one of our oldest sons. I lost control of my emotions and I was yelling, and then I got like an advertisement for a Never Yell at Your child ever again, do our easy training program where we'll train you how to, be a better parent.
And I was like, oh God. I was like, oh, I can't hide. Like you can't, right. So like just own it, that's the other piece. It's like just own it. Whatever you've done, whatever you've said, own it. It's okay. Release the files. Okay. I'm done.
So I wanna say you did clean that up with our son.
Oh, of
course. As you always do. Always. A hundred percent. Yeah.
Yeah.
He knows how much I love him.
Okay. More of Black Mirror episode. Okay.
Okay, great. I love more dystopia. You can, yeah.
Carrie says that the obedient and compliant would probably fare a little better, though. Again, who knows who needs those useless, weak, and cowardly people anyway.
And as the,
I believe we are all needed, but that's perhaps my, semi utopian view of the word. Yes.
And as the rules stacked up, anyone stepping outside of their permissible box could swiftly suffer the consequences. And there's no telling what these consequences would be.
Well, and so for example, this is a good, this is a good example of why I said single payer instead of Medicare for all.
Because obviously I don't practice the way Medicare doctors practice. I'm not a participating provider for Medicare, because Medicare sucks in terms of what they cover. They cover of like the middle 90% of treatments. And if what you're doing is on the outer 5%, which all of my stuff is mostly, not all of it, but like, there's a lot of what we do that's specialized in terms of using repurposed drugs for cancer care or, doing fertility treatment that's not reproductive endocrinology, et cetera.
It's not gonna be covered, even if it was extended throughout the lifespan, which is what Medicare for All would look like. So what you need is you need single payer coverage that covers all licensed healthcare providers and all prescribed treatments from all licensed healthcare providers. And then you would actually, people would have to compete.
I actually think using some market forces is ideal. I think a true single payer where like you pay nothing is inefficient. And that in France where like people literally have like cupboards full of like half to use medicines that they haven't finished. So inefficient. So I still think people should have to pay something, but I think the way that it should work is you have catastrophic coverage for if fall off a cliff or get run over by a Mack truck or have a heart attack, that's gonna cover you a hundred percent.
It's for the big deals. And then you have a health savings account and the health savings account, you get to choose how you spend those dollars, whether it be at a naturopathic physician, at a conventional doctor's office, dermatologist, wherever you wanna spend it. Personal trainer and then you also can use that to buy nutraceuticals and that kind of thing.
Yeah. And then that money is basically subsidized for people who can't afford to put money in a self, a savings account. They would get a certain amount and then when they've spent that much, then it tips over into catastrophic coverage. And that way you still have market forces, you still have healthcare providers competing for healthcare dollars and incentivizing to keep costs low.
But then you have catastrophic coverage to help you out when things really hit the fan anyway, proceed.
We would be no longer the deciders of our own lives since everyone would be expendable at best. Less people equals less. UBI money needed to be a dissenter. Could cost you dearly, perhaps. Well, that's, so
that's an interesting point about less people equals less strain on the UBI system.
No. I think that particular line is worth responding to. Okay. Okay. Great. Would be my comment. Like, okay. So maybe people feel like they don't need to have as many kids. Maybe they can focus all their attention on one or two kids, and maybe population shrinks a little bit. Okay. I personally don't think that's gonna happen because I think people, there's some people who loved being parents like we do, I think that it will actually free up more people to be parents.
'cause the number one reason why that people cite for not having kids is because they can't afford kids. So I think that UBI would actually help people have more kids. I also think that as technology advances and we're able to colonize new worlds and there's new economic opportunities on other planets, you're gonna see people want to go to those planets and reproduce there as well and spread humanity throughout the stars.
But, you may consider that a little sci-fi for your tastes. But I would say, that's that's what I think we should do.
Okay. To be a, the center could cost you dearly, perhaps even your life or the lives of people you love.
Dystopian Fears and UBI
Yeah, a lot of really a lot of really catastrophizing at this point, I think.
And I would just say that while we don't wanna dismiss those ideas, we also want to be careful of just pessimism. For the sake of pessimism. Because I think humanity has infinite potential over time. And I think that the, I think that we are all of God and I think that, we have, that we have God in us and I think that gives us that infinite potential.
And I think if we truly nurture that and cultivate that, and express that through this, through the future that we're creating, then I think there's no reason why things would have to be what was the last thing she said? This sounded very
yes. It cost your life.
Cost your life that you love, people that you love.
Yeah. But that being said, I would say that is part of it, that's part of,
do you, are you picking up what I'm saying right now?
Christian Perspective on UBI
Like it's part of our job as followers of, so I'm gonna speak in the Christian context for a minute 'cause it'll make it easier for me. So if you're not Christian, sorry, you may not get this, but as followers of Christ, our job is to pick up the cross and carry it with him.
And that may mean challenges, it may mean sacrifices, it may mean death. And we're prepared to face that. Does that mean we should never strive to make the world a better place? Does that mean we should never strive to create the kingdom of God on earth? The way that Mother Hill, who I love citing says this, and I agree with her 110% is we are meant to be the examples of God's kingdom on earth for the rest of humanity as Christians.
That's our job, is to be the people that are the reflection of the kind of kingdom and the kind of world that God wants for us now, so that people are, that people see God and Jesus Christ reflected in our faces, reflected in our actions, reflected in our works and our, the fruits of our labor and our spirit as well.
So given that to me, it behooves us to go about doing God's work, which, he did say that what you do to the least of these, you do unto me. And I think part of how we do that is by taking care of the most vulnerable, the most oppressed, the most marginalized. That's really what he invited us to do over and over again and.
This to me is an opportunity to do that. And it may not be easy, and it may ha, it may come with some challenges and there may be people who, as Carrie points out is are inclined to try to abuse it and use it. Just like people have done that with the church for that matter. Over the centuries there's been people who've used the church to do evil, and does that mean that was, that the church is evil?
No, but it means that there are some evil people. And I would say the same thing about UBI, because I think ultimately, the first Christians shared their property in common. They took care of each other. They were always there for each other. If we go back and learn about the early church, you'll see what I'm saying is correct.
And so in many ways this UBII see it as a form of ministry to society of bringing the love of God in Christ to the country at, to start out with. We could talk about the rest of the world eventually, but for now the country. So I see it very much as a spiritual call to fulfill on the kind of world that Jesus wanted for us.
And that to me is the antidote to the dystopian concern fundamentally. And I think if we. If we stepped over that or if we didn't address it, it would leave the conversation incomplete for me, because I very much see these as, as see it as an integrated part of the whole conversation. You can't have a conversation about UBI without having a conversation about Jesus Christ in my mind.
Now, some people may be able to do it, but anyway, go ahead.
All right, so Carrie further says, sure. Who wouldn't want to live in a world where their basic needs are covered without working 40 plus hours a week for 45 plus years of their lives? And sadly, all too often at jobs that are exhausting, stressful, unfulfilling, underappreciated or worse.
Yeah, so I think you you hear what's in there, it's like, gee, I wish I could have had that. There's almost like a, like, but if I, but then there's almost like a sour grapes piece to it, which is like, but if I couldn't have it, then nobody should have it. Which is like the same thing people say when they talk about free public college for their children.
It's like, yeah, but your kids will be able to have it, and if not them, your grandkids will be able to have it. Just because you didn't get to have good stuff doesn't mean that the next generation can't have good stuff. That's not a compelling argument for me. Like, I'm happy to work hard so that my kids don't have to work as hard, and maybe I got that from my dad.
Because he's very much that way. God bless him. He is very much that way.
And I pointed to this previously about, hard, hard work and what kind of hard work is it? Or this kind of work, this is not
right. So the idea that the idea that people wouldn't work if there was A-U-B-I-I think is a is you're right.
You're right to bring that up again because we did address that. But it's worth readdressing because she's bringing it up again.
Yeah.
That, that, I don't think that's true. I think that's a misunderstanding of what UBI does for people.
I wanna ask you, Carrie, like what would you do with a UBI?
Yeah. Yeah.
Personally.
Well, she said she's I think working part-time now, so maybe she's semi-retired, but,
But is there something else? Is there something more? Yeah. Is there something that you'd like to explore?
Yeah. Or that you'd rather be, or that you'd rather be doing part-time that you're not doing?
Or do you like doing what you're doing? It's a good question. Yeah. Yeah. Feel free to get back to us.
The UBI propaganda could promote the new allowance of precious time and energy to devote to friends, family, hobbies, interests, travel, creativity, and yes, even the joys and passion of entrepreneurship, if that is someone's calling, but I just can't see that rosy future, I'd love to, but I can't.
I see a world
more on that in a minute.
I see a world where autonomy and self-determination have become words of the past. I see a nightmare world of control and manipulation and dashed dreams. I see a world where there's no honor or place for the sick, the frail, the injured, the aged. But heck, I'm just a new conspiracy theorist.
Only five years now since 2020. I'm still,
I don't, I guess my only question about that is we've talked about how we feel that it would actually empower people to fulfill on their dreams. So I don't think we need to belabor that.
Yeah. But
I don't see how a world where. The sick, the frail, the injured and the aged would have access to UBI.
Why? That would be a bad for them. If anything, I think it would probably be a relief. But go ahead. New conspiracy theorist. We got that part.
Yeah. I'm still up behind my two suspicious ears. What do I know? Ps I wanna hear your thoughts on these thoughts too. PPS feel free to present any of my thoughts in an upcoming Yeah,
we, I think
so.
I do have to say something about 'cause I know that you have a legacy, Carrie, I know that you have a legacy like in, in your family.
Do you really s see the future for this kind of future for your family? And if you do,
what kind of future? When you say this, what does it mean? You're
talking about
Oh, the dystopian future.
Yeah. A nightmare. We control manipulation dreams.
I think what she's saying is if we were to do UBI then her concern is that would be the outcome.
Okay. Okay. I got that.
If you don't have anything else, I have something I want to conclude. Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. All right. And Molly, you'll have to tie this together and hopefully you can actually clip it so that people can actually see what I'm seeing and I'll do a screen share just in case.
Star Trek and Post-Scarcity Society
But the clip is from my favorite sci-fi show.
Star Trek, the Next Generation,
and it is about what we've been talking about.
Here we go. We can share this with everyone
so that they can get a taste of sci-fi. 'cause we've been talking a lot about it.
Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. Cut out this. It's like getting Batman and you need Batman.
Stop. Go slide.
I'm Captain Picard. Excellent. Now maybe we'll be able to get some things straightened out. We may Indeed. Those comp panels are for official ship business. Well, if they're so important, why don't they need an executive key about a Starship? So that is not necessary. We are all capable of exercising self-discipline.
Now you will refrain from using them. Now just a minute. We are in a very serious and potentially dangerous situation. I'm sure whatever it is seems very important to you, but my situation is far more critical. I don't think you are aware of your situation or of how much time has passed. Believe me, I'm fully cognizant of where I am and when it is simply that I have more to protect than a man in your position could possibly imagine.
No offense meant, but a military career has never been considered to be upwardly mogul. I must contact my lawyer. We've got it all wrong. It has never been about possessions. It's about power, how to do what, to control your life, your destiny.
That kind of control is an aloof. Really. I'm here, aren't I? I should be dead, but I'm not captain. I didn't mean to come on so strong. It's just that I've built my whole life on knowing what's going on for the first time. I feel completely out of touch making me crazy. You understand that? That's the first thing you said.
I do understand. I'll see what I can do and please stay off the compounds.
Then what will happen to us? There's no tracing my money. My office is gone. What will I do? How will I live? This is the 24th century material needs no longer exist. What's the challenge?
The challenge Mr. Often has is to improve yourself, to enrich yourself. Enjoy it. Would this make you buy a rich carryon? Two people could win a Lamborghini group.
You know to me, hold on, let me stop the sharing.
I feel like
maybe this is the one I actually wanted to play. Anyway, I wanna see all very confusing to you. Here we go. So I'll attempt to explain, you are on the Starship USS Enterprise America. No, it's a vessel in the United Federation of Planets and Earth is a member. Talk, give me a martini. Straight up with two olives for.
I might just get to like this place, but let's see if the Braves are on. How do you cut on this? Tv? Tv, yeah. The boob too. I believe he means television, sir, that particular form of entertainment not last much beyond the year 2040. Oh, what do you guys do? You don't drink and you ain't got no tv. Must be boring, ain't it?
That's what all this is about and lot has changed in the past 300 years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We have eliminated hunger. Want the need for possessions. We've grown out our infancy. Here's what I propose. You can't stay on the enterprise, but I have arranged for us with the USS, Charleston Bound for Earth.
They'll deliver you there. Then what will happen to us? There's no trac of my money. My office is gone. What will I do, how I live? This is the 24th century material needs no longer exist, and what's the challenge?
The challenge Mr. Often has is to improve yourself. Enrich your life.
Yeah, so just I would say use the first video. That was actually the one I wanted. I just wasn't sure. Okay. Let me go ahead and
cancel the screen sharing. I always forget how to do that. Oh, right here.
Okay. The reason why I wanted to share that clip from the Next Generation is because it's showing someone from, from basically the 19, I don't forget exactly when he's late from, supposedly from the nineties, two thousands, and he's been cryogenically frozen and now he's been brought back and he's come from our world into the world of the future, which is a post scarcity society where everyone's material needs are met and you see what they've managed to create in such a society.
And right now I see us as on the verge of having that same relationship to material needs as they do on Star Trek. And then really it's about what do we create with that and. I invite you as your homework to go and watch Star Trek, the Next Generation. There's a lot of different places you can find it.
I know for sure they have it on Paramount Plus or the Paramount Plus prime App. I don't, we don't get paid by either of those. Unfortunately. We should. But you can also get it in other places as well. It's classic at this point, classic science fiction, but it really shows you what's possible in a world where material needs are no longer present and what Captain Picard says there, which is that we be what animates people is the desire to be better than they were yesterday, to improve their life, to improve their way of living and their way of being and to make themselves a better person.
And yeah, I think that there's actually another really great clip, which if we had time, I would show it to you. Maybe we'll do that on another episode from another sci-fi show called Orville, which was actually inspired by Star Trek in which the first officer gives a very similar speech that is.
Equally, if not more powerful on the nature of humanity being about what we our attempt and our process in seeing who we can become and the greatest we can become, not just individually, but also collectively. And that is the project which animates a society that is post scarcity.
Anything you wanna say about that?
Be beautifully said. Thank you.
Yeah. Okay, great. Wow. Anything else?
Children's Perspective on Life
Yeah, I just wanted to close with a short story about our sons. Okay. I was on a walk with our sons they're age now, eight and three. And Colorado is just majestic. Anywhere you walk, you have that sky and the trees.
And I asked them three questions what was good about today? And our older one said everything. And his little brother, everything. Second question was what was hard about today? Older one said nothing. And the little one said, never got a friend like me. 'cause it was hard for him to learn that song.
Never got a friend, never got a friend from Aladdin. Never got a friend like me. Isn't that neat? And then the third question I asked them was where did you see God today? And the older one said, in the sky, in the stars. And the little one lifted up his shirt and said In my tummy, oh, God is inside you.
He said, yeah, Wawa.
📍 Yeah.
Conclusion and Farewell
So thank you for joining us for this episode of The Partovi Effect. My name is Mrs. Madi Partovi.
And I'm Dr. Ryan Partovi, be well.