Seasonal Color with Cate Linden

In this episode of the Style POV podcast, I speak with Cate Linden, a personal color analyst, color analyst trainer, and stylist. We dive deep into the surge in popularity of color analysis over the past five years, largely driven by social media and the desire for personalized style. Cate explains the benefits of working with a defined color palette, addressing common misconceptions, and how to find the right analyst. We also discuss the nuances of different color analysis systems, the potential of DIY attempts, and the transformative impact of finding the right colors. For those contemplating or preparing for a personal color analysis, Cate offers invaluable advice to ensure a successful experience.

Find Cate Here: https://www.catelinden.com

Full Show Notes Here: https://gabriellearruda.com/seasonal-color-with-cate-linden

Chapters 

00:00 Welcome and Introduction

00:18 The Rise of Color Analysis

01:00 Benefits of Knowing Your Season

03:17 Addressing Common Concerns

04:47 Personalizing Your Palette

07:05 Misconceptions in Color Analysis

14:37 Choosing the Right Analyst

23:46 Addressing Client Concerns

25:11 Understanding Different Color Analysis Systems

28:37 The Impact of Color Analysis on Self-Perception

32:03 Preparing for Your Color Analysis Appointment

34:10 Celebrity Color Analysis: Myths and Realities

36:58 Navigating Your Color Palette

44:43 DIY Color Analysis: Tips and Advice

47:19 Training and Consistency in Color Analysis

49:41 Final Thoughts and Farewell

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Disclaimer: The Style POV Podcast content is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. The views expressed by hosts and guests are their own. Gabrielle Arruda is not liable for any errors or omissions, and listeners use the information at their own risk.

Transcript

Gabrielle: [00:00:00] Hi, everyone. I'm Gabrielle Arruda, host of the Style POV podcast, and I am so excited to welcome Cate Linden to the podcast today. She is a personal color analyst, a personal color trainer, and a personal stylist. So welcome, Cate. Thank you so much for coming on. 

Cate: Hey, thank you for having me. I'm super excited.

Gabrielle: Let's just get into it. Why do you think that color analysis has basically exploded over like the past, I don't know, five years, maybe? I feel like everyone wants to know their season. 

Cate: Yeah, and people didn't know what it was. For a lot of people, even five or six years ago, like, when I started, doing personal color analysis, people had no clue what that was.

Cate: I would have to really explain the whole process. And now when I meet people, and they ask what I do. They're like, Oh, I saw that on Tik Tok. I saw them on Instagram. I'm so curious about it. I think social media is like a huge reason. I think, especially during COVID people were really bored, people were in their houses.

Cate: There was just a lot of room for people to explore things on the internet. And I think color analysis just happened to be one of those things that got very [00:01:00] popular. But I think that a lot of people just really see the value in working with a defined color palette. I think that we are exhausted.

Cate: Collectively by like constant makeup releases the makeup world is so explosive compared to what it used to be like, it's just, it's nonstop and there's so many different product types, so many different colors. I think that's very, tiring for the average person, like the average woman I find just wants to have Some good makeup that she feels good in.

Gabrielle: Absolutely, the amount of lipsticks that you buy before you know your season. I remember going like very dusty rose and blue red reds And I was just like none of these are looking great And I don't really know why and it's exhausting to try things to spend money on them And then just have them not have the same effect That you're hoping for.

Gabrielle: Do you think that people are hoping to look their best with color analysis? Or what do you think that most people come in? 

Cate: I think it's two things. I think for some people, it's definitely looking their best. They have had that experience where they bought a lot of lipstick. They bought a lot of clothing.

Cate: They [00:02:00] don't, like how it looks. But I think a lot of people just want to make their lives easier. I do think that we're, trying Also collectively exhausted by just like the demand of modern life, our teachers like pulled so many different ways that, for me, like the last thing I really want to do in the morning is be standing in front of my closet, like wondering what to wear, and if I have a closet where everything goes together, there's still some thought put into it.

Cate: Like I wouldn't wear literally every shirt with every single, Pair of pants or skirt, but it's a lot easier than trying to have to think about the color pairings as well. I find it's just easier. You can have your go to makeup that always looks good together because it's like the same type of temperature.

Cate: I think a lot of people just want things to feel more effortless. And then I do think that there is an element of. Sameness where there's, the Instagram face and like this perception that everyone's trying to look the same. And I think there is almost like a counterculture craving for like the individual look, like the individual identity to look more like yourself that color analysis really taps into.[00:03:00] 

Gabrielle: Yeah. So let's talk about that. I totally agree. I think that we're all craving. Our own unique place and that's why all of these things have started to research because it's really tapping into your inner self, your inner coloring, your inner style, what are you communicating to the world let's speak to the idea of boxes.

Gabrielle: Some people still feel like, oh you have 12 seasons, like you're still putting me in a box. Would you say that's accurate or do you actually see it as yeah a tool that someone can use to really bring the, their own voice, like two bright springs are going to communicate two different things with their palette

Cate: yeah, I think that's like a big fear, with color analysis is that, you're going to be limited and you're only going to have six types of things you can wear. But I do find, there are some people who I think would feel really limited, people who are naturally very fashionable or like really enjoy, you intentional disharmony.

Cate: I think there are definitely people like color analysis is not really meant for, where they might still benefit from having one, but they wouldn't necessarily put themselves like all into the palette. But I think [00:04:00] that the average woman is actually going to, or man, is going to wear more color when they're working with a palette, because one of the main things that, my, my coaching clients come to me with is this.

Cate: Fear that they're going to just get it wrong. They're going to pair things badly. They're just not going to understand how to put outputs together. And I think when you're working with a palette, it's a huge confidence boost for a lot of people like they know the works already done for them to a large degree.

Cate: So I think for some, it could be limiting, but I think for most people, they actually end up being more expansive with their color choices. Like they feel a little more free to take risks within the palette. And then I think people learn to like, how far outside the palette can I go, and still look good.

Cate: Because I do think there's a misconception that like the second you step out of your palette, you look terrible. And it's not at all how that works, even though a little bit of wiggle room. 

Gabrielle: Let's talk about that. So how do you direct someone who says that? I know there are people who obviously like crave novelty in their fashion, and they're going to use intentional contrast to achieve that.

Gabrielle: So those people aside, how would you advise someone if they [00:05:00] came to you and said I'm a true winter, but I love X, Y, and Z season? How would you advise them to work with both elements? And I'll let you choose whichever two seasons you'd like. 

Cate: Yeah, it depends, what season. So if you have a true winter who loves, Autumn colors, which is a pretty common one, that I see where they just love autumn colors, but they often know they don't look good on them, even pre analysis.

Cate: They're like, I look terrible, but I love them. One thing I direct people to do actually is decorate their house and those colors, which isn't specifically clothing related, but I think there is sometimes a tendency in color analysis spaces to surround yourself with your season entirely.

Cate: And for some people, I think that's great and they love that, but other people, they just want to have an autumn color house, even if they're a true winter. And I think there are ways you can get almost like an autumn vibe with certain seasons. Like I think for true winter maybe they wear some dark winter reds, maybe they wear some dark winter blues.

Cate: The average person, around them is not going to know if they love light spring or something, that's a little bit of a different scenario, but I would [00:06:00] advise them to, either work within their palette. They can wear a lot of icies. They can wear like their true winter yellows or, if they want to wear light spring, sometimes it's not the end of the world.

Cate: I sometimes advise people to buy pajamas in seasons that they like. But don't feel like they actually look great in because the only person seeing you is you or your family 

Cate: and 

Cate: they don't care if you're a true winter wearing daffodil yellow, think that sometimes like letting go of the perfectionism of it can be the answer, but then I think that there can also be really creative ways that you can make your season fit the vibe of another season.

Gabrielle: Yeah, I love that. I think that's usually what I tell people is why do you like that? What about autumn are you being drawn to? Is it that it's grounded and more natural or has a more carefree vibe than maybe you associate with true winter?

Gabrielle: Maybe there's textures you can bring into play. Maybe there's an overall style lines that are a little bit more casual than we would maybe recommend for a true winter, but that would achieve that kind of relaxed groundedness that maybe you're craving. Do you [00:07:00] think that there are some issues with how we perceive as a culture currently

Gabrielle: each of the seasons. Do you think that people are a little too rigid with them?

Cate: I think some of that is like the conflation of body type and season. That's like a big one that, I'll see where someone is a winter and I feel like they have to dress like a classic, but if they're not a classic, that's just not going to really work for them.

Cate: And I think there's like a big misconception too, that not only can you just identify a season, like walking down the street, but that, that each season looks drastically different from each other. And I find people look, Very similar. There are small variations, obviously, on how people look.

Cate: We have different hair colors, different skin colors, different eye colors, but like most people don't look drastically different from one another. And so I think there's this perception that, you can just pick out a soft season, pick out a light season, pick out a bright season. Or even that you could tell us someone's warm or cool.

Cate: I think some people are maybe a little better at that than others. based on context clues. If someone looks really orange and they're warm stuff, they might not really be that warm, for example. But I think there's just a [00:08:00] lot of misconceptions around color analysis, especially because it's gotten so popular, 

Cate: now I'm just 

Cate: trying to make sense 

Gabrielle: of it.

Gabrielle: I would put myself in that category. I was convinced I was cool because I was pale and everyone was convinced I was soft because, I'd been told, oh, your eyes are muddy looking or, you're not blindingly bright. You don't have black hair with blue eyes. You can't possibly be bright.

Cate: Neon skin, 

Gabrielle: yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting you bring up context too, because that's essentially what we're doing, right? When we're draping, we're putting clothes, removing them and removing the context and putting it back and seeing which one is better. So certainly there are people who are going to be able to pick up that up on that in real life.

Gabrielle: But Christine always joked that when someone wears the right colors, you're not being like, ooh, their chroma levels are so in line, or, wow, they really nailed that temperature. You're saying, wow, they just knew what to wear. They just had this effortless presentation. And I think that's what a lot of people are craving right now, is to be seen and to stop the hedonic shopping of just I'm [00:09:00] gonna consume and none of these pieces are working and I don't know why.

Gabrielle: Would you say there's any other misconceptions that kind of end up happening on in color communities or in seasonal color analysis as a whole? 

Cate: Oh, yeah, so many. One of them is, if there's any red in the hair, the person's warm. Often that's not the case. I see plenty of cool toned people who have red in the hair and, all red hair is different, just like all brown hair is different, all blonde hair is different, you can have very warm looking red hair, whether or not the person is warm, we don't know, but it can look very warm, it can look cool.

Cate: Another one is that there's one true perfect lipstick for each season. Someone brought this up on my Facebook page recently and, I thought it was a great topic of discussion because I know in some of these groups, there's this idea of the litmus test lipstick you're not a dark winter.

Cate: If you can't wear this, I think so many people get scared completely wrong by just trying like one. Item that's supposed to work for everyone. And a lot of the time it's a very extreme iteration of the season as well. In the dark [00:10:00] seasons, it's usually something like super dark.

Cate: And for the light seasons, it's often something that's looks like a peachy white out or something like that. Just not an ideal lip color. And then I think, one thing people don't think about when they're trying on lipstick too, is that lipstick will often look weird if you're not wearing it with that season's clothing.

Cate: So you could try on actually lipstick that you might think is awesome worn with that. Season's clothing, but if you're trying it on with something totally different, it's just going to look weird, but our inclination is to blame the lipstick, I look terrible. I can't wear that, but. That might not be the problem.

Gabrielle: And it's also people's baseline, too, as someone who who wears a lot of lipstick but doesn't wear a lot of other makeup, if you give me a full face of bright spring, full eyes, lips, cheeks, I even I was like, whoa, that's a lot, I'm not used to seeing myself that way. Yeah, it's just 

Gabrielle: I don't recognize my face. And that's a big hurdle, I think, for people to get over sometimes, is when they go from thinking they were soft and wearing very muted lipsticks to all of a [00:11:00] sudden giving bright fuchsia. They're like, oh my god, who is this person staring back at me? I almost don't recognize them.

Gabrielle: What advice would you give to people then trying to sort through their makeup or sort through seeing themselves in a new light after color analysis? 

Cate: Like after they've been Yes. I think one, one thing is like not to I guess not try to like stuff yourself into this like mold of what kind of makeup you think the season should do.

Cate: That's a really common one that I see, especially like for brights. They're like, okay, I'm a bright season. I'm going to put on everything. And sometimes that looks really great, but sometimes the technique is just off or sometimes it's just too much, artificial pigment being applied to the face.

Cate: Even if it's in someone's season, like there is such a thing as like just having too much makeup on. And so I think sometimes like people feel like they have to do. Everything all at once, but like you said, you tend to prefer lips more than other makeup types. Some people prefer blush and I think zeroing in on what actual makeup.

Cate: Look you [00:12:00] want is really important like even within your season like I just think a lot of the time we think of if you have a true summer woman and then another true summer woman They're gonna do the same face and that's just not really, how it works and I think like people sometimes You know once they're in their season could actually stand to be a little more picky about the specific Makeup products they have like I think that people sometimes have a narrower Best range and makeup than they do in clothing.

Cate: The products, I think some people are very sensitive to want to look like just a little on the cooler side for their season or like a little on the darker side or warmer side that doesn't make you less of that season. It just means that you're very discerning about your lipstick and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Gabrielle: Now, would you say that comes in play learning that information? Because we view it as a spectrum, right? So you can be a bright spring that leans slightly more towards bright winter, or you could be a bright spring that leans slightly more towards true spring. Do you think that can be a clue on, like, where you might be able to borrow from a little bit easier, whether it's clothes or makeup, or would you not correlate those two?

Cate: No, [00:13:00] I definitely think that can be like a thing, I think that, if you have to use your example, like a bright spring who feels like she gets blue and shadowy and bright winter, like she may just want to be more careful with those like cooler toned lips, even if they're bright spring, there may be a point where it goes too far, and on the other side, you could have.

Cate: You could have a bright spring actually who can go down to light spring a little more successfully than another as long as like the pigments still very clear and juicy. So I think that like actually matters and I think that's one of the benefits of having an in person color analysis is that it helps you, figure out where your wiggle room is a little bit like I think that's one of the issues with online analysis is that even if it were to be accurate, the person hasn't seen it so they also don't get all of that, tangential information that comes along with it.

Cate: Like how far can I take it? What should I like really maybe not wear? Because it's not like this is great, everything else is horrible. There is like a range of stuff you can believably wear. 

Gabrielle: Yeah, I think that what online lacks is that you see it, and you understand the [00:14:00] process, and you really understand what we're looking for.

Gabrielle: I think one of the other misconceptions people have, and I was guilty of having this too, is that when you look at a photo of someone, a clearing of the skin is like a positive thing, right? You're like, Oh, I'm so clear. But in real life, that color is actually like draining your life and you look a little bit like vampiric, which is not what we want.

Gabrielle: We want like the fully finished painting, the definition, the lines. And I think that most people walk away after color analysis. In my experience of being like, now I know what I'm looking for. Now I know what we're actually bringing me to life and why it's bringing me to life. So I think that context is so important.

Gabrielle: , let's go back to people choosing an analyst. I think that is so crucial and with so many options today, it can be really hard for people to understand is this worth the money? Like, why is this one expensive?

Gabrielle: Why is this so cheap? Can we just talk about the range and what they offer and, like, how you think people should decide what type of analyst is right for them? 

Cate: Yeah, of course. I think that's a great [00:15:00] question. When I first started doing personal color analysis, a lot of people had to just go to whoever was closest to them.

Cate: There just weren't that many options. You often were going to be driving a few hours. And now for a lot of people, that's not the case. Some people have, two, three, four analysts like within the easy driving distance. My kind of first. Step would be figuring out what system you want to be draped in.

Cate: I think that is a hugely important thing. Is it important for someone to have 12 seasons, for example, there, are they going to be fine with four? So people are totally great having a four season system. They just want another parent season. They're happy. They can totally work with that.

Cate: And I think that can actually be a good place for people who are particularly worried about being limited. 

Cate: If 

Cate: they want to work with a broader palette, that's totally fine. And I think people who want more specificity often benefit from like a 12 season or even maybe like a 16. Then I think looking at other things that may be important to you, like some systems don't control the environment with lighting or backdrop.

Cate: Some people, that [00:16:00] doesn't bother them. For me, I think that's integral. Like for me as an analyst, it would really stress me out to wonder, did I put this person in this season because it was an overcast January morning? Or, did I put them in this season because it's July at 6 p. m.?

Cate: I don't want that on my conscience. It makes me nervous. But some people don't care about that. 

Gabrielle: I think that's where sci art derived systems really shine, though, is that how obviously it's science and it's art, and we're at taking artistic interpretations of things, but there's a lot of experimentation that is formulating the experiment's results.

Gabrielle: We're not just jumping to the conclusion you have black hair, so you're a winter, or we're just gonna guess sometimes, I see in some of the groups, I was, like, one analyst her photos were really strangely lit. And she just said, oh I just have such a good eye, I can see through it.

Gabrielle: And I was like, really? I can't. I wouldn't ever trust whatever results I gave without the proper lighting and the context. You put a golden light on someone, they're going to look more yellow. That's going to affect things. Do you want to talk a little bit about what makes SciArt derived Systems like your natural design and 12 [00:17:00] Blueprints so unique in this space?

Cate: I definitely think, controlling the environment is a huge factor, use the neutral gray backdrop, the analyst wears a coat the lighting is specifically calibrated. I think the drapes are also really important. There's a huge variance in drapes. And I think that's something that we don't necessarily think about, there's not just one big drape store, where we're all shopping.

Cate: You're like. At the mercy of what's in the store to a large degree, and then they are a huge pain to put together. I commend, terry and Christine for making these drapes because it takes a lot of hands on harmonizing, a lot of time, a lot of double checking to make sure that not only are they good representations of the seasons that you're testing, but that they're going to test well against each other.

Cate: We're looking for a reaction, during an analysis. So you wouldn't want to pick a bright winter blue and a bright spring blue that are like super close together. You want to push the boundary a little, see how far, can this person go into the season not to like an extreme degree where it becomes ridiculous, but you want to see which season is going to be more [00:18:00] versatile for this person.

Cate: Like where are they going to be able to wear the full range of the palette? I think that's really important. One way that we test is by just only looking at two drapes at once. I when you're looking at. Three, four different drapes like piled on the client. Like you can't really keep in your mind what the actual difference is, so here we're able to say, we like this drape because it's induced all of these color reactions compared to this other drape. And we know that it's because of, the chroma difference, for example. We know it's because of the temperature. We're able to isolate the specific kind of reason behind the drape because I think sometimes when people think about color analysis, they think we're just going in and being like, I like this.

Cate: I like that. This looks great on you. This looks bad on you. But there's so much more observation that goes into it than that. 

Gabrielle: Yeah, I spend like sometimes four hours with people just because I want them to be able to see it. I want to make sure that they walk out of there being like, We didn't just choose this because I thought it looked really nice on you.

Gabrielle: Sometimes we take breaks to rest our eyes, 

Cate: that's really important. 

Gabrielle: And I always tell people with the drapes, [00:19:00] I'm like, these are not the prettiest, quote unquote, colors within the season. They are the colors that give us the most information. The whites, not nearly as much information, in my opinion, as the yellows.

Gabrielle: The yellows, it's oh my gosh, okay. 

Cate: Yeah, yellows are very truthful. 

Gabrielle: Yes, they are. A huge part of why I think sci\art derived systems are so important is that we make no preconceived judgments, we don't guess people's season, there are no boxes, we really just stick to this very formulaic testing process.

Gabrielle: And I tell people we may start to hate a season, but we don't eliminate it until way late in the game, because. We have to keep it in and we have to make sure that data is repeatable in every test that we see. So even if we're still hating spring, we're still going to keep it in.

Gabrielle: Do you find that people are struggling to find analysts these days because there's so many more people out there? Or do you think that Sometimes people rush the process and they're like, who's ever closest?

Gabrielle: I'll just go see them. 

Cate: Yeah. I [00:20:00] think more, more the latter. Like I do have clients who, come to me after having already gone to other systems. And a lot of the time they're like, Oh, I just picked it because it was cheaper or I picked it because they were closer. And sometimes that's totally fine.

Cate: Your closest analyst might be like your perfect fit. But I do think sometimes people. As an impulsive person myself, I totally get this, but they're like, I just want to color analysis now. Who's the soonest person who can get me in? Who's the closest person to me? But I think that it is, a really impactful decision, like who you want to see.

Cate: And I think that in addition to looking at the system that they practice in I encourage people to. Take a look around analyst websites, see what kind of blog posts they've written, do they have any videos? Do you just vibe with them? I think that it is a relationship I don't think I'm the perfect analyst for everybody.

Cate: And I think that people should feel, empowered to pick the analysts that they feel connected with, and it could be just something little that you wrote that someone, really resonated with. But I think people should also pick their analyst based on. How receptive the analyst is to [00:21:00] conversation, like if someone emails me and asks a question, like I really try to like answer, their question to make them feel confident in booking the analysis or, confident that I'm not the right analyst for them and that they should seek someone else out.

Cate: It's just a very important decision because you're going to go make so many decisions based on this. You're going to go buy makeup. You're going to get rid of stuff. I think it's really important to feel comfortable with the person to, comfortable asking them questions.

Gabrielle: Yeah, you're spending hours with the person. You're staring at your makeup free face with your little cap on. Yeah it's a vulnerable process. And I think that people would do well to make sure that they like the analyst's approach to things, that they like how they explain things, that it makes sense in their brain, that they agree with the interpretations that analyst has done in the past.

Gabrielle: And I think that the beauty of in person is that you do develop a relationship with them and you're able to open up a communication channel. So what they have a question like, Hey, this isn't really working. They can reach out or they can book up a follow-up, up color session with you to go through the results and understand, here's how I [00:22:00] bring it to life.

Gabrielle: Because people are always like, I got the answer. I got my season, I'm done. I'm like, that's the beginning, . 

Cate: Yeah. Now you 

Cate: have to go work with that. That's a whole other process. 

Gabrielle: Now you have to deep dive into color and learn your fan and understand where you can scooch the rules or where it starts to fall off a cliff for you personally.

Gabrielle: What advice do you have for people who are looking for an analyst? What would be the one thing that you would tell them to do first before they book?

Cate: , once they've narrowed it down, say this person has three different options, I do think cost is important.

Cate: That's an important thing. But you also want to look at, what are you getting for that cost? What is the amount of time that the person is spending with them, for example? You may prefer a smaller cost and like a shorter session. That's totally fine. But like really pay attention to not just, the exact price tag, but what are you getting?

Cate: What are the resources you may get afterward? Is there a followup, are they open for questions? How long is the appointment? All that kind of stuff, I think factors into [00:23:00] pricing. And sometimes we'll just look at. The exact cost and not everything that goes into that cost.

Cate: I think that's like an important thing. And then I think really just like feeling is really important, like trusting your gut, and trusting the kind of vision of the analyst that you see, because. It's not really an industry where there's one exact right answer. Everyone's going to agree on like different systems do have, somewhat different aesthetic goals.

Cate: And as much as we try to streamline it as much as possible and make it very regimented, this is still an industry that is based on human vision, which is always going to be somewhat subjective. And so I think like you said, feeling comfortable asking your analyst questions, if you are struggling with it, like you don't want someone who you feel like might be like, Oh, go away, you want someone who's okay I'm sorry to hear that. Like, how do we work with that? I've definitely had people reach out to me who are like, Hey, I'm having problems with my season. And my first thing I usually ask is okay, what is it?

Cate: Can you send me some pictures? Sometimes it's an issue where. They're swatching and accidentally picking up the wrong season or sometimes they're like makeup's a little off, but I have had people where I've had them come back in and I'm like, Oh, [00:24:00] you know what? You're right. I got it wrong.

Cate: Like you actually are such and such season and then they're good to go, and I always feel obviously, very responsible for that as an analyst. That's something that, I think isn't talked about enough, but I always want to do right by my clients and make sure that. Yeah.

Cate: They're in the right season and so I never want someone to feel uncomfortable, reaching out to me if they are struggling because sometimes it's a very easy fix. Sometimes it's Oh, I think that lipstick's like way too matte for you and it's making the color look way too dark. Sometimes it's you've been picking out true summer instead of soft summer.

Cate: So it feels a little bright, things like that. But I have had clients who have moved seasons before and, in the end they were just really happy to be in the right spot. 

Gabrielle: Absolutely. There is no world where everyone gets it right 100 percent of the time and an openness for an analyst to be like, Hey, we're going to check in three months and make sure that everything's going according to plan.

Gabrielle: Or if you have questions or concerns, I'm open for that. I think intention is a really important part. about choosing an analyst because some people are like I don't care about makeup. I don't care about hair I just want to know general season [00:25:00] boom done And then there's other people who are like, can you tell me what color to dye my hair?

Gabrielle: Can I buy your makeup? Are you gonna give me a style analyst too? And I'm like, okay that those are two very different services, right? Yeah, exactly. You brought up something interesting, and I think we should talk a little bit more about it if you're open to it. The idea that different systems across the board are looking at different things.

Gabrielle: Do you want to expand on that a little bit? Because I agree. I think as a whole. We are all trying to make our clients look the best, but maybe what we consider the best is subjective, or it absolutely is subjective. What one system may define as present and fully finished painting, another may consider it too harsh, or another one may consider it out of harmony.

Gabrielle: What do you think that a variety of these systems look for that might differ from a sci\art system or any others?

Cate: I think there are, definitely some differences. I do think that some systems prioritize blending, like, where they're blending the person. With the drapes where there's not a lot of distinction between them and [00:26:00] there's with all of this, a very fine balance, like I think it's almost like a Goldilocks kind of process.

Cate: Like you don't want to warm someone up too much. You don't want to cool them down too much. You don't want to over define them. You don't want to put someone in a season where they're going to look really harsh and everything's just too much, but you also don't want to put someone in a season where, nothing's going to show up on them.

Cate: And I think some systems, maybe prioritize that kind of like blending or I guess it can be perceived as a more natural look, although I think everyone can be. Can achieve a natural look in their season if they are that season but I think some systems also prioritize, definition, they're trying to get this really like high depth, like super sharp kind of look I think some systems are prioritizing overtone where they're really trying to match.

Cate: The drapes to the person's hair, their perception of the person's skin. I do think not controlling the environment makes that a lot easier to do because, for example, not covering the hair. I think that can be a really sticky subject, especially if the client has hair that's like.

Cate: A little outside of the norm. I [00:27:00] think if someone has bright white hair, there's like always going to be a tendency to stick them in a cool 

Cate: season because you're, 

Cate: you're subconsciously matching the hair and it's very hard, to get your eyes to not look at something. I think that's something that we don't really think about either is that, for the analyst controlling the environment.

Cate: Helps you not focus on the wrong things. Like for me, it keeps me from looking at the hair and thinking they have red hair. They must be spring. Like they might be, but they might not be. So I think different systems definitely have, slightly different aesthetic goals. And I think that's where like looking at, previous clients of your analyst or that system can make a huge difference because you can look at it and say Oh, look, that's not what I'm going for.

Cate: And I don't really align with. These visual results or, you might be really into it and feel like confident that person's going to get you where you need to go. 

Gabrielle: Yeah, I think that hearing how other people and seeing the results of the analysis very illuminating because you can say Oh, I totally agree with that.

Gabrielle: Or you don't want to get an analyst who you like disagree with every single one of their placements. Maybe they're not [00:28:00] right. analyst for you. And when you talked about it, I was thinking about, sometimes I use the analogy, at least I do of finding the right base for your face, like the right structure.

Gabrielle: So if you think about it as art, we don't want like this huge marble sculpture on this tiny toothpick of a stand. It won't feel balanced. It won't feel well supported. And likewise, we don't want this teacup sized sculpture on this huge marble base. It feels novel and interesting, but it doesn't actually bring like peace to our eyes and just say oh, that's so beautiful.

Gabrielle: I can see all of the art in its best glory. It's distracting. And I look at color analysis as the way to find that right support underneath you that really brings you to the forefront. And I think that, in my case, I knew that people, once I started wearing bright spring colors, were all of a sudden oh my gosh, I see you in a different light.

Gabrielle: Do you think that color analysis can change how you perceive yourself?

Cate: Oh, yeah, definitely. I think that, going back to the sculpture, analogy, I think like visual weight is a huge part of the draping process. I think that's something that doesn't really get talked about in [00:29:00] online spaces.

Cate: It's more of like a. I guess an analytical type of term, but it's not just, are you warm? Are you cool? Are you dark? Are you bright? But, like, how, how balanced are you with these drapes? The visual weight of them? Do they feel really heavy? Do they feel, they're about to float away from you?

Cate: And I think it can make a huge difference in actually how the architecture of the face and the body look, next to them. I've had. Clients who like came in thinking and telling me that they thought they were just really unattractive and they were not really unattractive, but, during the draping, sometimes we can see how colors are distorting the shape of the face.

Cate: The face can often look way more square and the wrong color or, more pinched and severe. And that's like a real, optical illusion of color. A lot of color is. Really illusion and that simultaneous contrast concept where when you put a color next to another color, it's going to change how they look and that does.

Cate: extend to shape as well. So I think getting that balance right is really important. And I think a lot of people, are unconsciously making themselves look different, [00:30:00] with their color choices. And when they see themselves in their season, they're like, Oh, I didn't know I could look like this.

Cate: Like I look so fresh or I look like elegant or regal depending on the person. I think like one place it can be a little tough for people is when they don't really want to look how they look. That's the thing that, I've struggled with in my life and a lot of mine is due to where, say you have a dark season woman who just really wants to look really light and pastel and, that may not be her most effective season, but that's not to say that she can't work with that.

Cate: Like we talked about earlier, she can bring in elements of that, like more ethereal types of fabrics and, qualities like that give her that feeling. But I think it can definitely, really impact people's self image and how they See themselves. 

Gabrielle: So what do you do when someone says I already know I'm a blah blah blah, and I'm like, oh, okay.

Gabrielle: We'll see 

Cate: That's pretty much what 

Cate: I do We'll find out but I do like to ask questions like okay, like why do they think that [00:31:00] is it because Someone on reddit told them they were that like, you know it or is it something where they've Experimented a lot and like that seems to be working for them the best that's something that you know I'm really curious about like how did they reach that conclusion?

Cate: But yeah, I have that phone too. I'm like, oh no what is there not? Yeah, they are like some of you actually are that season then You know, I'm really proud of them. 

Gabrielle: I had this one client who was like, I know, in the form she's I know I'm a winter, I just want to figure out which one. I hate spring colors.

Gabrielle: And I was like, oh I hope she's not a spring. And she was so on point. I have never seen someone react so poorly in every spring drape. To the spring. Yeah, we were like okay, you're right. That, that's the positive outcome. But it is sometimes hard when someone comes in and says, I know I'm this.

Gabrielle: And you have to take the time to make sure that they see the evolution of what they can look like, but I think it's a really empowering thing and it really allows people to see their own unique beauty, following that, what do you think is the most important thing a person can do [00:32:00] before their actual color analysis day?

Gabrielle: Should they read up on the systems? And this is, they've already chosen the analyst, they already have the appointment. What should they do? What should they do next? Come out 

Cate: Not watch TikToks. That's my, 

Cate: that's my answer. I get so many weird like TikTok questions, like I saw someone say your natural hair color is not your best hair color and everyone should be coloring like just weird stuff, but I do think sometimes people get themselves like really turned around or they just absorb, a lot of information that just may not be relevant to the system that they chose or it may be, not really in alignment with their personal goals.

Cate: If you are going to watch TikTok, I do tell people like Please practice some discernment, with what you're watching because, anyone can get on Tiktok and say anything and that goes for anything I say to I want people to stop and ask does this sound reasonable to me?

Cate: That's important, but I would say for a lot of people, I think once they book the appointment, they actually feel free and they stop feeling like they have to buy a new lipstick all the time to figure out what season they might be like, I often [00:33:00] advise people to. Just do what feels fun, make Pinterest boards 

Cate: like sometimes people will come in and they'll show me their like personal style board or something like that on Pinterest. And even though we're not really doing style in the appointment, that really helps me see, what their aesthetic goals are, like what they're going for. And then that can help me give them advice, with their season.

Cate: If there's someone who, say they are a light spring and she's really into like rugged outdoorsy looks like we can talk about how to do that 

Cate: with 

Cate: clothes. So it gives me a better idea of how to give them direction than just like you're a light spring, go have fun with that.

Cate: It's okay, you're a light spring and you like this kind of stuff. Here's how you might want to work with that. Or people will often come in and tell me stuff like. I don't wear any makeup and I'm not going to, I'm like, that's fine, you don't have to, it's probably even more important, to be wearing your colors if you're not wearing any kind 

Cate: of makeup.

Gabrielle: Yeah, you get natural makeup then, but oh yeah, I totally understand the TikTok thing is interesting and everyone has opinions and I think the hair dyeing thing [00:34:00] comes from people explaining why a certain celebrity who they guess is this season actually looks okay With this hair. So let's talk about that a little bit.

Gabrielle: Celebrities. 

Cate: Celebrities. 

Gabrielle: Celebrities. I know. It's, I know. It's I don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole, but. 

Cate: Yeah, I have a lot of people that come in and they're like, What season do you think so and so is? I'm like, I honestly have no idea. They're wearing so much makeup, they have stylists.

Cate: And I do think that one thing, about celebrities too, is that, not only do they have full time stylists, people are doing their hair, people are doing their makeup, but a lot of the time, any look that they're wearing is harmonious with itself. Whenever you're wearing makeup and clothing, that's harmonious with.

Cate: Each other, even if it's not harmonious with you, it's going to look pretty good because everything's going together and that's very different from, everything's also going with you. And I think that for celebrities, it's just like impossible to tell which it is, I think over time, like there are patterns that can be gleaned, but we also never know are they [00:35:00] using self tanner, what kind of skin care is going on behind the scenes, that we're not aware of. 

Gabrielle: And just the editing of the photos sometimes I'll go through a celebrity in this dress and I'm like, I think it looks great here, but then I'll find five more other photos and the dress color is different and the person's overall appearance is different.

Gabrielle: They've been so edited that I'm like which one is the true? Expression of this color. Yeah. But yeah, I think that's totally true that you mentioned about the cohesion of the head to toe outfit, because I think a lot of people resonated even when I was exploring like summer or cooler colors, they were like, Oh, that outfit looks so good together.

Gabrielle: It looks so good on you. But really, it was just like the outfit connects with one another like the pieces all fit. I dyed my hair so it was cooler. So it was like they were like cool hair, dusty blue, silver. Okay, all these things seem like they go together. Yeah, but it was only when I started wearing Bright Spring that all of a sudden people were like, Whoa, I see you in such a new light.

Gabrielle: So it's definitely true that I think testing your way into a season is not necessarily an option [00:36:00] I don't think you can just try on clothes and just be like, does this outfit make me look like a bright spring? 

Cate: It's like the outfit is bright spring, 

When we talk about celebrities, a lot of the time they fall into that same trap of where, we're really just looking at how they visually present to us and trying to figure out what season they are based on that. And there are so many factors, celebrities.

Cate: As soon as you'll see a paparazzi photo where it's like their real self or something, it's still usually like weird L. A. street lighting for once. But it's I think a lot of the time we're just still trying to find that cheat code of here's their hair color, here's their skin color, they must be a this

Cate: and like you said we just don't even know what season the item that they're wearing actually is, like some colors. They're more obvious when you see them oh, that's definitely, a dark autumn green or something. But there are a lot of colors where you really have to get up close to them and swatch them to figure out, what they are.

Cate: Is it a spring purple or is it a winter purple? We don't know. Sometimes they look really similar. 

Gabrielle: Oh, yeah. I think, let's talk about that, the nuance in the palette. I think there's a lot of [00:37:00] stereotyping of what is in a palette. Sometimes people be like, that isn't in your palette. I'm like, actually, look at this.

Gabrielle: It's right here. We all get lights, brights, neutrals, but it's so nuanced when you're choosing it in real life too. Is that like an icy purple or is that a slightly dustier purple? I don't know, especially in a photo, first of all. But do you think that people have a good grasp on what each palette is really consisting of, or do you think that Tiktok has also changed our minds where if you're bright spring you only get like yellow and orange and if you're Soft summer you only get dusty blue and gray 

Cate: Kind of both but I do think that, TikTok has brought color analysis like a huge audience and even like Instagram reels.

Cate: And there is actually a lot of great information on there about like makeup for the seasons and things like that. But I think it's just easy for The average person and even sometimes for analysts to just think of the season as like a very small snapshot of what their colors really are and I think sometimes we over focus on like [00:38:00] the wrong thing like you know the softs being a really good example people really fixate on like their dustiest colors and they forget that there's a lot of richness in those palettes a lot of colors that you would never just look at with the naked eye and say like these are Super soft and dusty, if you compare them to like a bright spring like yes, you can see that they're soft But I think that's just like human nature.

Cate: We're inclined to try to categorize things really quickly, so it's like the darks, they're not only buying the darkest dark colors to call them their outfits, but a lot of the time that's how we start to think of it Like they were dark colors. They were light colors.

Cate: They were like neon colors, And it neon is even like a thing where You know, technically, the Brights can't wear neon, they can wear it the most effectively, but it's not really part of human pigmentation, colors, but I think they may like nail polish, yeah, things like that. So I do think the seasons all suffer from stereotyping in different ways, or even just limited knowledge of what they really look like.

Gabrielle: Do you have any advice for [00:39:00] people who kind of start to get a little Startled by being put in, let's say a bright season or a soft season. If they're like, I love like the bright winters for instance. Usually they're the people who are like, Ooh, what do I do with this? I don't wear neons to work. Do you have any advice? 

Cate: It's hard too because the clothing that's popular right now is so muted and so warm and I do see a lot more colors start to enter stores like there are a lot more brights out there now than there were two years ago, a lot more just color variety in general, I often advise people actually just to take it really slow when they start with their season like I don't want people to go home and decimate their closets and get rid of everything you know I think enjoyed On one hand, clothes are expensive and it's hard to find them, but also they might have sentimental pieces that they want to hang on to, they might have something that's like the wrong color but it fits them really well and then sometimes your eye just isn't that great right away, so people may inadvertently get rid of stuff that actually fits their season because they are not used to looking at it.

Cate: I don't want people to go try to Blow up their color lives and I [00:40:00] advise people like buy a lipstick, try it out or if they don't wear lipstick They don't have to start wearing lipstick. That's like another kind of, misconception I think people have is that they suddenly have to become a lipstick wearer and For a lot of people they do because they're like, oh, I finally found the lipstick that looks good on me But you know if they don't want to wear lipstick, that's not something that color analysis is making them And so , I advise people take it slow, especially with a season that's very jarring as a result and, ask your analyst questions , I never send someone off the door until they have seen it we've looked at it multiple times.

Cate: If they end up being, say a bright winter, and they thought they were, like, a soft autumn or something, we'll often compare them at the end to see, how they each look, even though that's not a comparison that you would typically test together. But I'll often say now let's go look at the season that, you came in thinking you were, and now let's look at the season you are.

Cate: And I find often people, when they see themselves looking, better and more real and three dimensional and in their season They're very open to it because everyone wants to look better A lot of people I find don't [00:41:00] really care what the colors are as long as it's giving them the tinted effect But I do think the brights can be scary the darks I think are often scary for people too because they're Often imagining, that they're gonna be poolside wearing all black 

Cate: and 

Cate: Morticia Addams or something.

Cate: That's not the reality of being a dark season. 

Gabrielle: No, not at all. Yeah, I usually just ask them their favorite colors, their most worn colors, and then I'll cover up some of the more colors they maybe don't like within the palette. I'm like, doesn't this look so much more digestible?

Gabrielle: If you're not a yellow person, cover up those yellows. Now you have blues and purples and grays totally fine. It really is just Seeing the palette in a digestible way and I mean for me what I did is I just like I bought one sweatshirt that I was like wearing regularly and I bought it a bright spring color and I was like, let me test this out.

Gabrielle: Let me make sure I feel we see how I feel about these colors. And I like just all slowly started to reach for it more and more. And then all of a sudden I was like, okay, fine. I resigned myself to bright spring. But that doesn't mean that everything [00:42:00] you buy, even if it's in your palate is going to be a match, right? I've had clothing that I've bought that's my color palette that I've put on and been like, eh, actually, style essence match, style line match, yeah. Not my favorite. Doesn't match with my own expression. But getting to that point, how do you think that people should approach wardrobe building after they get an analysis?

Gabrielle: Because obviously the benefit of finding your color palette is that everything is more versatile. If you start to build that palette up, you have a lot of pieces that work well together. And you have your go to lipsticks that you throw on and you're like, man, I look good. I had my coffee this morning, 

Cate: I think, for a lot of people. It's like that tendency when you find a shirt you like to buy it in every color. I think a lot of people, when they get their palette, they're have to collect all of these colors. But, if you have I do feel sad for True Winters who don't like purple, because there is a lot of purple in that palette.

Cate: But if you do have a True Winter who, doesn't like purple, I'm like, that's fine. You do not ever have to wear this palette. Like it looks like it might be a little dicey. She'll wear the [00:43:00] pinks, but you don't have to collect them all. You don't have to wear every single shade. And I don't think every single version of a color within someone's palette is going to be, their absolute best, the palette itself, is really just a representation of the seasons like measuring tool.

Cate: And so I do think people sometimes get really fixated on trying to find an exact match to that color square, which is not really the most effective way to swatch. But I think people should give themselves room to not like things like I remember I was in. A Facebook group years ago where everyone took like a digital kind of picture of their palette and circled the colors that they really liked and crossed off the ones that they didn't like and it was really interesting to see, people of the same season just had totally different color preferences.

Cate: And I do think a lot of the time that's based on. overtone, like how people present the naked eye, like what their hair color is, what their eye color is, like they may find a certain color in the palette lights up the eye better than another because they have very different eye colors or something like that.

Cate: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's like [00:44:00] amazing advice because ultimately, these are representations of what, the creators of Sci Art and Catherine viewed as the boundaries of each season but I think her goal was to push. As far as you possibly could out to those boundaries so it wasn't limiting to anyone.

Cate: And the idea that there's going to be colors that even if they look totally okay on you, believable, that they might just not resonate with you or maybe won't look as good as that red in your palette or that blue, that's okay. It doesn't mean that you got your season wrong. It's just that you shine even brighter in this, think that's really good advice. What advice would you give to people who are not going to do a in person analyst, but do want to DIY their season? Do you think it's possible? 

Cate: I do think it's possible. I have had clients who have come to me, after many years of experimentation and figured it out.

Cate: And, sometimes I'll have someone who just Looked at the pallet and said, I think I'm that, and that's actually what they were, you 

Cate: know, that's 

Cate: a bit rare, but I do [00:45:00] sometimes see it. I do think it's possible to figure out your own season. I think that you absolutely, 100 percent have to see a color analyst, but I do think that it has to be approached scientifically.

Cate: I think that it is beneficial to get at least One of the NDU harmony fans or something like that where you can make sure that the clothing you're looking at is actually the right season because when I was first in the color groups, many years ago, people will be like, I think this is a true summer green and if you don't know, you can actually be keeping yourself away from like the palette that is yours because you're mistaking what the colors are.

Cate: So that's like a big thing I would recommend is to have some kind of tool to tell like what kind of clothing you're looking at. What it is seasonally with makeup, I would advise people don't go spending thousands of dollars on lipstick, for example. Some companies have seasonal sample kits you could try.

Cate: I know 12 Blueprints was doing that for a while, and I think that there's some supply chain issues with the colors currently, but that can be a way to do it. But even with makeup, I think people [00:46:00] really over focus on this is going to be the perfect lip, or this is going to be the perfect cheek, and, individual color variation.

Cate: Among the seasons makes a really big difference. If someone, a light summer and they try one of those cool carnation pinks and they feel like it's a little cool, then they should try one of the more cool corals in the palette. Like maybe that's what they need in blush and they just don't want to go too cool on the face, but they can wear it in clothing.

Cate: There's just a lot of, kind of variation with that. And then I think that not over focusing on how the person specifically looks is really helpful. And I think that's one of the things that, Really confuses people in a lot of the online spaces is they're like, you know Making their photos black and white trying to figure out how much contrast they have and you know All these little tricks that I think actually just are really confusing I think a lot of the time not trying to put yourself in a box based on just how you present the photo is like one of the best That you can do look at Is this color lipstick really lighting up my eyes?

Cate: But like now my face looks like you said earlier, like vampiric or do they look really red? [00:47:00] What is happening to the skin? The eyes will often react to a lot of stuff and look really popping, but like the skin may be like languishing, far behind. So I, I feel like people who are trying to DIY their seasons, you have to be a bit methodical about it and you can't.

Cate: . Panic. Cheat your way. 

Gabrielle: Cheat 

Gabrielle: your way to the answer. 

Cate: Exactly. 

Gabrielle: Do you want to talk a little bit about your training? Because I know a couple people have come to me and be like, , I love sci art, who can I get trained by?

Gabrielle: And I'm like, Cate! 

Cate: Oh, you're sweet. 

Cate: Yeah I love training and, it's really important to me that, ideally that all your natural design analysts and, 12 Blueprints Analysts that we'd be able to reach the same result. I think that consistency is really important I do think sometimes analysts have a slight difference of opinion unless you think someone is a true autumn, the other person is a dark autumn, that does happen But it's important to me that We're all on the same page and like having good communication around it.

Cate: And so when I am, training students, I really try to communicate well and have a back and forth about [00:48:00] what they're seeing, what I'm seeing. I don't want to just be like, this is right. Here's what I see. I really want to hear their thought process. And I think a lot of, color analysis training is pattern recognition.

Cate: It's like teaching people like when this happens, often it's because the chroma is too high. Now this has happened. It's a lot of analytical processing of information. And then there's this photo review process, where we try to make sure that we're on the same page afterward, they get to do practice clients before they go, out into the world on their own.

Cate: And for me with training, it's just very important to that, all of my students feel very empowered to open their own businesses and go forward and serve their clients in their own way. Like I do think every analyst has. Their own like flavor, not every analyst is going to approach their business the same way.

Cate: Some analysts are really into makeup, some don't wear makeup really at all. And that's not like one of their kind of main areas of focus. . But, within the system, I want people to be able to reach like the same diagnostic result, even if the way that they.

Cate: Teach their clients [00:49:00] afterward is different. 

Gabrielle: Yeah, I think that's one of the beauties of the sci\art derived systems is just how formulaic everything is and how regimented it is and how the comparisons that like We're consistently having the same drapes, the same boundaries, and those steps to get there isn't just I think we're going here, so why don't we do this?

Gabrielle: It's no, that's not how we do it here. We have our little spreadsheet, and we have our steps, and then we take those steps one by one, and we make sure that the data is repeatable, and that the results are repeatable, whether it's in the first step of the draping process or After we get to the 12 seasons, I think that's really just such a wonderful way to approach such a nuanced topic.

Gabrielle: Thank you so much, Cate, for coming on. Do you have any last parting words of wisdom for anyone? 

Cate: Thank you for having me on. I love talking to you. I felt like I could talk to you for ages. I know. There's so much to talk about with cover analysis and so many different questions that crop up during the process and I really think it's important [00:50:00] to educate people on how to, pick their analysts.

Cate: It's really important. Don't rush it. But I just really appreciate you having me on. 

Gabrielle: Yes. It's been so wonderful. And we will make sure that everyone can find Cate at catelinden.com/ and she does personal color analysis, personal color training, and personal styling in general. So we will make sure that is all linked in the show notes.

Gabrielle: Thank you so much, Cate, for coming on until next time.