David Zyla on Archetypes, Color, and the Power of Dressing Authentically

This is the LAST episode of season 2!  See you next season! 

Today’s guest is someone whose influence in the world of color and personal style is nothing short of iconic. Emmy award-winning stylist and bestselling author David Zyla joins Style POV to share his intuitive, story-driven approach to style—one that has helped thousands of people across the globe discover their truest selves through color.

From dressing political powerhouses and celebrities to guiding everyday clients through transformative style journeys, David’s work is rooted in the belief that clothing should not conceal who you are, but rather reveal it.

In this rich and expansive conversation, we explore the philosophy behind David’s signature color system, the artistry of archetypes, and how texture, movement, and tone all work together to express identity. Whether you’re already a fan of his books (Color Your Style, How to Win at Shopping), or this is your first introduction to his work, this episode offers a generous window into the heart of what makes his approach so enduring.

We talk about:
– The moment David fell in love with style and color
– Why the colors we’re drawn to often hold personal significance
– His unique process of identifying your Signature, Romantic, and Essence colors
– Using archetypes to align your wardrobe with your energy and values
– How to evolve your style during life transitions
– The emotional and energetic power of texture, fabric, and silhouette
– Listener questions about color fear, finding your “home base” hue, and dressing for presence
– Behind-the-scenes stories from the world of TV costume design

This episode is a masterclass in using archetypes, color, and clothing as tools for self-expression—an invitation to dress with intention, clarity, and authenticity.

Full Show Notes: https://gabriellearruda.com/david-zyla-style-pov/

Where to Find David Zyla

Website: www.davidzyla.com

David's Pinterest Boards: https://www.pinterest.com/davidzylastyle/

Watch the episode instead: https://youtu.be/i9_HiknzSb8

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Disclaimer: The Style POV Podcast content is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. The views expressed by hosts and guests are their own. Gabrielle Arruda is not liable for any errors or omissions, and listeners use the information at their own risk.

Transcript

Gabrielle: . [00:00:00] Today's guest is someone whose work has shaped the way thousands of people around the world think about color, authenticity, and personal style. And if you're listening to this podcast, chances are his name is already pretty familiar. David Zyla is an Emmy award-winning stylist, bestselling author, and a widely admired expert in the world of personal style and color. 

From launching his own evening wear label at just 22 years old to dressing some of the most recognizable faces in pop culture, David brings a rare blend of artistry, intuition, and precision to everything he touches. You might know him from his amazing books, Color Your Style, or How to Win At Shopping, or from his time as a head costume designer for shows like All My Children and the Young and the Restless.

His work has been featured in Vogue UK, the New Yorker, USA Today and The View, just to name a few.

But what I love most about David and what you're going to hear in this episode is how deeply he believes that style isn't about [00:01:00] trends or rules, it's about revealing who you really are.

We're going to be discussing how he developed his signature color system to what he's learned from working with clients like you and celebrities like Hillary Clinton and Neil Patrick Harris, to how you can start seeing your own style with more clarity. This conversation is rich, generous, and full of insight. So let's dive in. 

It is so exciting to have you on the podcast, David. For anyone who doesn't know, this is the amazing David Zyla and you have such an expansive and amazing career of work. From your costume design to your celebrity clients, to your wonderful writing of Color Your Style. So, what started your relationship to personal style and color, and how did it first take shape?

David Zyla: Oh gosh. So it started really early, , for me. When I was five years old . Um, I remember, shopping with my mother and she would always try to push [00:02:00] her colors onto me, of course. And I kind of knew that, like I knew I didn't feel right in them. I had this visceral reaction and, but while we were out and I was trying to manipulate her into buying sepias and oranges and so on, I remember I would point to a dress and say, that would be nice on Aunt Carol. And I would say that would be great on Grandmother Ruth. So from an early age, I just had this idea of slotting style with a person, and I think that's the best way to say it, is just connecting them and you know, and I always, had very strong opinions about what I wore.

I remember my favorite shirt as a little boy. That was the colors I'm wearing right now, of course. 

Gabrielle: Yes. 

David Zyla: And, over the years, um, I would experiment with different colors on myself and so on. And when I got to college, I went to NYU and I studied costume design. Mm-hmm. My teachers would, uh, come to the shows that I designed at school, and oftentimes they would say, well, why did you put her in the turquoise dress?

And [00:03:00] why did you put him in the rust colored tie? And I would say, well, I don't know, but it's just right. Mm-hmm. Which, if I look back, you know, at 18 years old, telling your professors who are Broadway professionals, it's just, right. It's kind of saying like, I just know, like, it's not the best answer.

I think there's a better answer out there. And so I thought, well, why is that? For me, it was always a click, you know? Mm-hmm. I'll be very honest. I didn't have a formula. I just said, well, no, this goes there and this goes there. And it was completely logical to me. And it was probably about a year out of NYU, I had the opportunity to meet a woman named Suzanne Caygill 

 I met her socially through friends, and I heard about her work and she told me a little bit about her work. And I went home that night and I could not sleep because I thought, oh my goodness, there can be vocabulary around everything I've ever felt. This idea of who you connect with, which color, which [00:04:00] style, fabric, silhouette, et cetera. And I spent the next two years, diving deeper into color theory, taking a lot of classes, as well as more art history classes, more than I took at NYU.

And then for two years, I experimented on all of my friends, and some of them are still friends with me, but I mean, we're talking 10 hours in a chair. It's like, oh, I'll buy you lunch. And like, and I tried every possible color on them to learn what it was that was clicking and where I was pulling the colors from and so on.

And so I did that for about two years, maybe three. And then I started working with clients as a result of that. So it's kind of a story of, you know, it's the opposite of a traditional education, if you will, where you go and you learn something and if you're going to be a dentist, you go to dental school.

Yeah. And then you do an internship, and then you probably get a job in an office and at some point you probably [00:05:00] open your own office. But it's fairly linear and there are things that you learn along the way that you check off. And for me it was, I had an ability and then I had to figure out, well, , what is this ability and, and how do I talk about it and how do I teach others to embrace it for themselves?

Gabrielle: So when you were in school and you had this kind of innate eye for those colors that other people couldn't see, were you starting to get into like color psychology or was it just always something in the back of your head? Because obviously you have this more deep dive into it with your friends and they're all getting all the analysis, but do you think that that was ingrained in you or do you think that, um, really looking at costume sprouted some of those new eyes or it expanded what you could see color could do? 

David Zyla: Color can tell a story, you know? Mm-hmm. If you look at a Van Gogh painting. And then you look at a Mondrian painting. Mm-hmm. And if you were to take both of those paintings and just blur them so you don't know exactly what they are, [00:06:00] you could literally say to me, this one tells this story. This one tells that you, you're going to feel something different from each of them. 

And I feel that costume design can impact a scene, an entrance, the perception of a character, so specifically with color. And so, yes, I did learn a lot, you know, thinking about, okay, well when she enters, this is when she's, uh, how to say, the end of the play, and she's come into herself and, we're gonna put her in her version of red, let's say.

Mm-hmm. Which I call the romantic color. So of course, like that was something that I learned along the way so that when I was, fortunate enough to put out a book about my theories, that I took things like that experience. And named the colors in such a way, because when you think about it, it's like when we go to a movie or see a play, a character can come on stage or on screen and before they open their mouth, [00:07:00] there's a story told.

Yeah, about them by how they're dressed. Of course, the underscoring and the lighting will help with this, but basically there's a color story that is helping sort of very quickly brand who this is. Um, so yes, I, I learned a lot through costume design, in terms of communicating the material.

Gabrielle: Yeah, it's like a narrative. You know, you have these raw materials and before she speaks a word, she's telling you where she is in life. Is she the heroine? Is she down on her luck? Is she coming into her own? You know, and it has so much language to it. So, let's get a little bit into your eight true colors and how you categorize that because, it's really interesting to me that you started with the drapings of your friends and experimenting with them, and then you kind of found these patterns, or you just started to really kind of categorize what you naturally and innately see. 

David Zyla: So, the various color [00:08:00] groups, uh, came together because I felt that everyone in their closet needed to have certain categories. What does one wear to a very formal event or a funeral or a business meeting?

And so that would be your quote unquote version of black. What would you wear every day in terms of a shoe, a bag belt? And that would be your version of brown quote unquote. And then what would be the color that you would wear at the beach? That would be the informal neutral. So I thought everyone has those colors and then everyone would have a red, you know, if we think about, many women wear lipstick, not all, but many.

Mm-hmm. And so the idea of having a red is very useful. The idea of having a color that commands authority would be very useful. A color that connects us in the most authentic way I thought would be useful, and also [00:09:00] one that would, make us as supportive as possible, et cetera, et cetera. And, so that is how I broke it down.

And I thought, well, these colors all come from us. I look at people as subjects of great portrait paintings. And so you've been painted already and you have certain colors in you. And then if we wear certain colors, we can pull that out and forward. I like to think about the work, like we're just turning up the light a little bit.

The spotlight on you just glows a little bit more or mm-hmm. There's kind of a gentle hand at your back pushing you forward and you're just noticed a bit more. So the idea is we're enhancing and pulling out what's there. 

So, if Mona Lisa we're painted against neon orange, we would get a disconnect. We would not get the harmony that we do with her painted against sepia and brown and moss, et cetera. 

Gabrielle: Yeah, it's [00:10:00] kind of like a wash. You know, when painters start a painting, they wash it with a certain color and that color bleeds through all the colors that you paint on top of it. It's this lovely base that allows all the other colors to either harmonize or maybe create contrast, right? It's so wonderful to hear you talk about all these different iterations and how you think about it in such an artistic and creative manner. I just adore it and I love how you talk about the colors too and how to use them. 

Because I think that sometimes people get so hung up on, well, I can't wear red. Red isn't my color, or yellow is, oh no, I can't do that. And you frame it in such a lovely, like energy balance and power and kind of trying to find the right color, not only for you, but also for the situation. It's like storytelling to a way. so you have all these wonderful colors and your traits. 

Now, in your book, I know you talk about DIY-ing them and pulling them from your features. How [00:11:00] does that work when people come and see you? Are you getting the paint chips out or what, what's the magic? Can we get a peek behind the curtain? 

David Zyla: Well, I'll first mention that I have worked with so many people that do extraordinary DIY work and I'm, I'm floored by it. Like, it's brilliant, it's beautiful. Sometimes someone will come to me for a session and at the end of it they'll say, do you mind if I show you what I came up with? And they put it next. And it's beautiful. Um, there's some really, really good DIY work out there. I will say a lot of DIYers, when they've made, uh, an appointment with people say, okay, I'm gonna stop thinking about this. He'll just tell me which is, which is like, I would do that too, right? Like... 

Gabrielle: Yes. 

David Zyla: The appointment, you don't need to, you don't need to think, you don't need to work hard. He'll do it for you. 

Gabrielle: They wanna hear it from the master. Come on. 

David Zyla: Exactly. So in a session, it's funny, in the book, I write finding your colors in a very specific order that to me [00:12:00] make the most sense, because I've been doing this so many years. When I'm in a session, I'll often be, you know, I'll, be chatting throughout with the client and, oftentimes I jump around and I'll say, oh, I wanna work on their energy color right now, and I might start with that.

 It's not always that order with me. I I'll be like, mm-hmm. Oh, I really wanna do the dramatic right now. It's kind of like what's popping forward first? So anyways...

Gabrielle: You're an artist, so you're, you're painting and what sparks you? Right?

David Zyla: Right, right. , sometimes I mix it up a little bit. Sometimes I do it in the exact order. It's an interesting process and I think there are a lot of people who have artistic lives and hobbies and their process is very exact. It's sort of like, well, I'm going to paint this apple, this shade of red. And mm-hmm. They don't go far from it.

They literally commit, they're gonna capture that exact color. Mm-hmm. And I work a little bit differently. So, I will start throwing my [00:13:00] possibilities in front of the client on the table. I make a mess every time and I I like the colors to sort of breathe in front of them a little bit and then I fine tune.

So let's say that I throw out a darker periwinkle. Mm-hmm. Um, so I'll throw that darker periwinkle out, but then I might also throw out something slightly bluer and something slightly more purple, and I just kind of let it sit. And then within the period of the session, I will realize, I don't know, we're gonna go a little blue or, or a little more purple and I get rid of the other ones.

So , I kind of do a fine tuning throughout. Mm-hmm. As opposed to reaching into a drawer for color x, y 7, 8, 4, and put it down and that's it. 

Gabrielle: Yeah, you're really an artist. You know, you're painting a color and you're like, that's not quite right. Let's add a little more blue to it. Now we're seeing a bigger picture.

 What is the picture forming? Now we have to go and add more yellow to that blue, or whatever the case may be. [00:14:00] It's like you're kind of painting the full portrait and allowing people to see themselves in this new, powerful light. And I really appreciate all the language you use in your book about authentic style. 

 I absolutely adore how you use the archetypes and how you look at it from the lens of like you're almost building a character, right? Like when a filmmaker or a costume designer or a theater person when they're building this, this character in a play, they're talking about how does she enter a room? What fragrance is she wearing? How do people see her? It's like this inner power. And people start with color, which I love how you kind of say is like a mirror of the soul almost. But then, it moves past that and, and there's patterns that you obviously saw and applied, but then there's a customization to it too.

 Do you wanna talk a little bit about why you were so compelled to talk about beauty that goes beyond kind of a surface level? Because you really talk about it in such a deep way. 

David Zyla: You know, there is [00:15:00] a lot of information out there as to what beauty is, and I feel that beauty is many things and beauty is being the best version of you. There is no universal, there's no, how would I say, uh, jawline that everyone quote unquote should have. There's no haircut that everyone should have, et cetera. And I think that I wanted to put information out into the world that everyone is beautiful and everyone is beautiful in their way.

And, so many times over the years I would be out shopping, or at a makeup counter working with a client and I would overhear someone say to a friend, oh no, that's an ugly color. Mm-hmm. And I thought, well, to you it may be because it doesn't look good on you, but you are not objectively looking at your friend.

And I've also seen the opposite. I've seen people, you know, empowering each other, which is very exciting and wonderful to see. I really wanted to put information out there that it's all about being the best version of you and that everyone is [00:16:00] beautiful. 

And that, if you have certain features and certain coloring, dress to illuminate it and bring it out and don't fight it. I worked with a client just recently, who has this wonderful long body and my idea is keep it looking long. You know, don't try to truncate it. Like that's the beauty of her.

So, my idea is always embracing what's there. And just like with the colors, just everything about the person to bring them forward. So, if someone looks better and more, let's say they're a mischievous spring and they look better in a eclectic items like a fringed cowboy jacket over a calico dress and booties and socks sticking out, and a few necklaces, et cetera.

Mm-hmm. Go for it. That's you. Now, how do you translate that for a corporate job? There are ways to do it. But should that person wear a black suit with a white shell and a diamond [00:17:00] stud earring, no, because she's not gonna feel like herself. She's not going to appear authentic and she's not gonna appear trustworthy either.

Mm-hmm. And I think something about love, relationships, and business, ' trustworthy' is a really good word to describe who you are. Mm-hmm. And the minute someone looks like they're in a costume, people are like, I don't know about that person. And so my idea is, let's keep that mischievous spring looking like a mischievous spring, even in the corporate world, even at the fancy black tie event, et cetera.

And that she should always look like herself and always look beautiful and like her type of beauty. 

Gabrielle: Yeah. That's really empowering, first of all. And I think that it lets people be more kind to themselves. That if they don't look exactly like the beauty face that is currently in trend, that they can say, well, no, I can look just as good, but I'll look, I'll shine my soul instead of kind [00:18:00] of a copy and paste. And I really enjoy your approach to that. 

Now let's talk a little bit more about your archetypes, because it's so interesting to me that you built all these systems and you found all these patterns. How do you guide people? Because it is kind of like a guidebook, right? Like they get their colors, they get their archetype, they get these guidelines that can kind of shift them in the right direction.

They're finding these boundaries almost of like, well, you can go all the way up to here. But once you go here, we're gonna get a little bit of a mismatch. Is that how you view it or how do you advise someone who's opening up into their new archetype? Their worlds changed. 

David Zyla: Yeah. I will also share, I'm gonna add onto your question a little bit.

Gabrielle: Okay. Yes. 

David Zyla: So, I think right now it's really confusing to shop because we have every choice we could ever want. If right now I want to pull out my phone and look for turquoise leg warmers with [00:19:00] stars, I can find them. And I could probably have them here by tomorrow on top of it.

So the idea is you can find anything. In some ways that actually makes a purchase or trying something a little bit more daunting, just because there are more choices. So if one is, let's say between two archetypes, I would say do some visual research. I have Pinterest boards for the different archetypes.

I would look at those. I would go into a store and try some things on. Let's say that you're between dusky summer and Renaissance Summer, let's say. Well, they both wear texture. So, that's, something you couldn't, like, pull apart very easily. But perhaps, you try on layering a few necklaces and see whether one looks better or if three look better.

And I'm not saying for certain, but, I would say the three would go a little bit more renaissance. So I would try things like [00:20:00] that. Some of the markers that I've written about in the book or that you've seen on my Pinterest board, I would try some of those things out. 

Structure can be a really, great way to differentiate archetypes a bit more, you know, wearing something very flowy. Does it suit you? Do you look like yourself? Does the long flowing line kind of connect with everything in your face and body? Or, are you better in a very fitted, bandage dress to the knee, you know?

Mm-hmm. By creating that more extreme silhouette, does that just connect with everything else? And, so I think that's also a really good starting point. I would also say as a little trick, if you want to try things like that, oftentimes if you remove color from the equation, it's a great idea. 

 If you take a photo of yourself and make it black and white, it's a little bit easier 'cause you're just looking at the shape and not the color. 

Gabrielle: Yeah. [00:21:00] That's so fascinating. And because, my background is in fashion design and you know, when we draw, we're using different markers and different textures and different, mediums to like reflect back. Is this a textured boucle or is this a clean satin and I love how you paint people and bring their full identity to life, right? 

You talk about authentic style and how it's merging your true nature and that kind of attracts people and, allows you to get the job or allows you to, attract your best friend or go into a room and communicate what you feel in your soul. Do you wanna talk a little bit about how you view personal style? 'cause the way you write it is beautiful.

David Zyla: Well, thank you. I really, truly believe, and a lot of what I've written is based on personal experience. I know that when we feel good about ourselves, we walk into a room confident. Well, how do you feel good about yourself? There are a lot of factors as to why [00:22:00] someone would feel good on a particular day, but I really feel that style can be a huge help, and that if you feel like you are looking your best and as a result feeling your best, you put great energy forward and I believe that you then get it back.

Mm-hmm. I like to use the idea that if you are leaving your house in the morning and your neighbor over the hedge goes, wow, you look great today. Mm-hmm. Uh, and you get, you say thank you, and you get in your car and you go and pick up some coffee and the person at the window goes, wow, you look great.

You say thank you, you get to work. A colleague says the same thing. If that's the day that you are going in to ask for a raise, I'm not saying you're going to get it, but you are going to already feel seen. And so you are not going to be pushing. You're going to be confident and very powerful because you feel like you've been seen already that day.

 I love using that idea. I've had the [00:23:00] experience of I'm at a party, I. And, you know, there's someone across the room and you just want to talk to them. Mm-hmm. Because there's something about them. And I will tell you that that person is always wearing their true colors.

Mm-hmm. Because they're just looking like the best version of themselves. Again, it's like, you know, the lights have been turned up on them. They're just glowing or they're very quickly coming into the foreground of the scene. 

Gabrielle: And what's interesting about your system is that you're really finding that inner magnetism and that inner strength in these colors.

So, I know it's not just about colors. So where do the archetypes come into play with all of this? 

David Zyla: Over the years, I discovered that there were color palettes that were, how would I say, had similar harmonies to them. And I also discovered that those, palettes with similar harmonies had similar traits to them as well, in terms of [00:24:00] style.

Now, it doesn't mean that every Renaissance Summer should wear gauchos, let's say. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or every vivid winter should wear one shoulder. You know, it's not universal. Um. Mm-hmm. God, it would be so easy if all this were universal, but then again, you wouldn't be doing this interview would you? 

Gabrielle: Yeah. Then we would lack those. 

David Zyla: Wear the same thing, right? Yeah. So even though I have 24 archetypes, it's not like one size fits all. It's not every, um, high Autumn has this necklace. It's like, no. Mm-hmm. No, I, I think it's more fine tuned than that. But again, when I first started doing this work, , I knew some people who had gone and experienced some color systems where you were one of four palettes that were ready made and so on. I learned very quickly that the people that I knew that did that, went out and bought t-shirts in their colors. Mm-hmm. And, not everyone looks [00:25:00] good in a very flat cotton. And that's really what's shone a light on the importance of fabric and style along with color. I for instance, always need some texture going on.

If I wear aubergine, it just doesn't do it. But if I wear a crepe or a flannel, everything looks right. I very early on discovered this and thought, okay, well why is that? Why is it that the color's right, but the fabrication just looks flat against that person or looks too textural against that person.

So that's when I really started seeing these patterns over and over again. Why is it that the buoyant spring looked better in the smooth fabrics? Mm-hmm. And, and so on and so forth. And I, over time, fine tuned that.

And in my book, I give you a full, yes, that's it. I give you a full rundown of each of these archetypes, including a fragrance and a motto and so on. [00:26:00] And these are based on the research that I did working with clients. And my idea of the book is that if in each archetype, let's say you're thinking about two archetypes and you've sort of nailed down your palette, you're not quite sure, you might have a few choices there too.

And the idea of all of that information for each archetype is that hopefully not, if you think about each one like a climbing wall, hopefully nine of the pegs out of the 10 will get you close to the top. That's the idea, to give you as much information. Because again, objectivity is hard. I know it's hard.

I should have written that book first. if only I knew how to write it. But no, seriously, and that's literally why I put in all of that information to help people get a little bit closer if I just said, you know, this archetype is edgy. Well, what is edgy? You know? Yeah. Um, but if I give you an example of a flower and a [00:27:00] fragrance and some specific items of clothing, hopefully we can, you know, DIY a lot closer and get where we want to. 

Gabrielle: Yeah. It struck me at, when I was reading it that it was like this beautiful exploration, like what filmmakers do or costume designers. They're kind of marking up who is this person? How does she react when she gets her, what's her morning routine like? What fragrance is she using? How does she walk into the party? You're thinking about all these layers to this person, so it's not just, here are your colors, now go buy a chartreuse T-shirt, you know? 

David Zyla: A great starting point to think that, right?

Yeah. It's like, oh, I'm gonna buy something in my color, but mm-hmm. Then there's another layer.

Gabrielle: , so it's interesting because in fashion design we use different mediums to express different lines. Sometimes we use a sharp sharpie line to mimic a vinyl or a lovely charcoal to mimic a beautiful knit. And it seems like all these puzzle [00:28:00] pieces just came together in your brain.

It's really interesting. , how does line, texture, and movement fit into all the archetypes? Because it's so expansive what you've created. 

David Zyla: Each archetype has specific fabrics and specific, references that connect with them. So I would say that an iridescent summer looks best in an unbroken line, head to toe, kind of like, I like to think about their soul.

It's like a may pole where you're just wrapping ribbons around till the bottom, so there's no hard break throughout. I think that's really important. Facial features definitely connect with neck lines, the toe of the shoe, et cetera. We can take every clue that is in us and pull it forward and put it into our personal design package.

Gabrielle: So, I mean, you have such an eye, like you have an eye, you're an artist, obviously. You see these things and you connect the patterns. For someone who's not as [00:29:00] attuned to all of these things, where do they start? 

David Zyla: So very simply, I would say in terms of line, look at the shape of your jaw. Is it angular? Is it round? What does it end in? Does it end in an oval? And my idea is that shape is always then going to be a great neckline that will just emphasize that shape that's already there.

It's very easy. If you have, a chin that ends. , more square, a square neckline is gonna be great on you. If it's more of a point, the V is gonna be fantastic. And so that's a great starting point. And as I mentioned, taking that shape and repeating it throughout is a great idea. so if you wear a V-neck, I would say wear a pointy toed boot. As well. Mm-hmm. Because we're just echoing what's already there. We're not adding something alien. 

 It's very funny, whenever I have seen, someone who, looks best in chocolate [00:30:00] browns and velvets and really deep textural fabrics. Whenever I see something like what I'm gonna tell you, I always giggle a little bit. I was out and about and I saw this woman and she definitely was, you know, coming from working out and so on.

So she was not dressed up or anything, and she had like a Mickey Mouse watch on her wrist, and I just thought, and it was round and there was nothing round in her at all. Everything was very angular and quite beautiful. And, I saw her get to the corner and she met her teenage daughter and then took the watch off and handed it to her.

And I was like, oh, thank goodness. Because it was one of those things where it was like, oh, this doesn't, it really didn't belong, you know? Mm-hmm. This woman would look best in like an oversized jade ring that's more angular as opposed to, something very high contrast of a Mickey Mouse watch that's very novelty and round on top of it.

And sure enough, her daughter, had a very round face and [00:31:00] she put that watch on. I was like, oh, thank goodness we're putting it in its right home right now. So I think that, , just following what's there. And again, objectivity is hard, so I would say take a photo of your face and maybe it's easiest if you make a few copies of it and draw, a v under it or a square under it or something round under it.

Maybe it's easier to do it that way than even putting it on you in front of the mirror that might be, 'cause it's kind of one step removed and you're just looking at a shape there. 

Gabrielle: I love the art references that you have as well, because it's kind of like, are you gonna be the Mona Lisa? Are you maybe even a Greek sculpture? Or are you a Monet painted in a style? And it's this beautiful thing of how are you naturally showing up? What is your art? How would someone paint you? What would they use? What would they layer? And that's why I love your color story so much because you are kind of just pulling out all these natural colors that exist within you. It's so [00:32:00] cool. 

So how do you feel that, people should navigate changes in their life as they go from, let's say, a college student to a career? How do they use their archetype? Does it grow with them? 

David Zyla: That is an amazing question. One that I'm very excited to answer.

People's lives change. If you are a, attorney in New York City and a year later , you have a daycare center in, Oregon, you know, somewhere in Medford, Oregon, let's say . Should you be wearing that boardroom suit to your daycare center?

No. No, but should you be wearing something that is a costume on you? No. So I would say that about every two years, it's a great idea to do a style checkup with ourselves. Mm-hmm. So I think people should look in their wardrobes. If you are not wearing something, maybe it goes on probation for a bit and maybe you ask yourself, well, why am I not wearing it?

Things that don't fit should not [00:33:00] be at the front of the closet. They should be put aside because that is a tease. It's like, oh, aren't I beautiful? But you can't wear me, so why have that in front of you? My idea is that when we get dressed every morning, there should be great possibility in front of us and we should be excited about expressing who we are with our clothes.

And so the style checkup is a great way to just go, okay, well who am I right now? I've worked with a lot of people who go from, you know, let's say a corporate job to being retired, and all of a sudden they go from needing a lot of work wear to needing a lot of casual wear, and then maybe as a result of being retired, they go to a lot more parties and they need more dressed up, cocktail clothes and so on.

So do they need to keep all of those corporate suits that they used to wear? Probably not. If they wanna keep a few of them, sure. But the style checkup just kind of keeps us current. 

The same thing should be done with a makeup bag. If there's a [00:34:00] lipstick that you just don't wear anymore and every time you put your lipstick on, you reach for it, but you don't quite get it to your mouth , maybe there's a reason for that. Maybe, how would I say the, it's a little bold for where you are right now, or it's not bold enough. I also would say that our coloring does change as we get older. Mm-hmm. Um, our coloring gets more mellow as we age.

And I'll tell you a quick little story of how I discovered that. Okay. So, I grew up in Central New York and there was a woman down the street who every winter would have this big white parka and she would walk her giant white dog and it was always snowing and all you would see my brother and I called her the lips because all you would see through the snow were these hot, hot fuchsia lips coming at you.

You saw nothing else, just that. And years later I thought, oh my goodness. That is a perfect example of [00:35:00] someone not doing these checkups because I would imagine, when the woman was 19, that lipstick probably looked great on her. But as we get older, our coloring mellows and so I think she never objectively looked in a mirror and said, does this still suit me? Because it was too bright, it was too intense. 

Which is why when someone has a palette of colors going from dark to light, I will say that, you know, at a certain point you may want to not wear the brightest and just maybe. Go one down and wear the subtler, versions of it and I would also say that our second and third bases, um, can shift a bit as well with the changes. 

Gabrielle: Oh, interesting. So, what is an indication that we are in need of, a color or style checkup? 

David Zyla: , something profound that's going to happen to, to thrust someone into it, I would say just put it into your rotation.

It's a great way to get things out of the wardrobe that you don't wear. [00:36:00] Scheduling a style checkup with yourself about every two years is a great way to keep everything current in your closet. It's a wonderful way to say, okay, well who am I right now? What am I wearing? What am I not? Um, maybe you can get some rid of some things.

Maybe you can put some things in storage that are sentimental, but you're not going to wear. Because the idea is that, we want your closet to reflect who you are right now. And I also think a style checkup is a great way to say, I have these pants. I love these pants. They fit me so well. The color's perfect. I have nothing to wear on the top. 

So that can also generate a shopping list for you for that season. And my idea is, look at what you have in your closet. What do you need to activate the items that are there? And I would say, put that at the top of a shopping list before you start a new head-to-toe outfits.

Gabrielle: Yes. You also have a great book all about shopping, which I think everyone should pick up [00:37:00] a copy book for, especially in this climate because going shopping is such an overwhelming experience these days. I mean, it's a paradox of choice. There's too much and having this kind of guidebook of saying, you know, that's not your yellow, don't go in that world.

Or, you know that this type of line just like lights you up and makes you come into a room with power, that's really valuable. Now let's talk a little bit about, um, 'cause we've talked about shifting over time. Now, when someone finds their archetype and , they want to kind of be malleable about it.

Maybe the queen wants to be a little bit more playful for a day or the vital spring, the prom queen wants to be a little bit more serious. Is that when they play with the colors that you put together? Or how would you advise someone? 

David Zyla: I would probably say that colors would help with that. The idea of, you know, maybe instead of wearing black, or one's version of black, the first base, maybe wearing the third base and [00:38:00] doing something a little bit more casual can be thought of as a little bit more, lighthearted, um, and a little soft, or wearing the essence color is a great way to do that which is the color that unifies all of the tones in our skin. That's a great way to do something that's a little less intense. 

If there is an archetype that wants to become across a bit more serious, I would say, well, maybe you do your silhouettes and patterns, et cetera, in a first base, you know, to make it a little bit more formal.

Gabrielle: I love the guidance that you have in your book and all the clients that you talk about, especially the therapist who had her dramatic color as her wall, and it was beautiful color for her, but it maybe wasn't making everyone comfortable. I love how all encompassing this system really is and how you relate to the world and what does your painting look like.

So let's talk a little bit about what consultations look like with you today. You've honed and created this beautiful system. Can we get a little bit more info on what the artist is all [00:39:00] about? 

David Zyla: So I start every client with a personal color palette. Um, and that's kind of our, you know, our starting point.

And so I create, a palette for them and I discuss how to use it, the fabrications that connect with it. Um, I'll talk about silhouettes, I'll talk about makeup ideas. , I also talk about the metals they wear and the stones they should wear, and jewelry and the shapes, etc. Um, and I'll give them a lot of examples of uh, silhouettes and designers, et cetera. 

So it's basically a, a real strong, package, if you will. I also offer extensions on that palette. I like people to work with their original palette for a while, and then I extend the palette, um, cool to offer them alternates, et cetera. The reason I don't do it all upfront is because I want people to really hone in and learn the tighter palette first. Mm-hmm. 

I also have something called the ultimate style session where I drape people in various neck lines, sleeve [00:40:00] lengths, hem lines, 

Gabrielle: wow. 

David Zyla: Et cetera. And then we do two zoom, uh, sessions after that. The first one is a Pinterest board that they create to show me where they're at and where, how they wanna manifest their archetype going forward. And then they, give me five scenarios and I draw five outfits for them based on the drapings we did. Um, 

Gabrielle: wow. 

David Zyla: So, so I do that, and then I do a lot of shopping with people and I do custom design, et cetera. It's, it's amazing, all of the components that are part of my work right now. 

Gabrielle: Yeah, you really help people kind of bloom. You know, they have this bud inside them and you help them open up and show the world kind of who you are. And it sounds like from your book, all your clients, it's all word of mouth.

The someone gets it done and then someone else's sister gets it done and then her coworker comes. So it seems like your system really works for people. They really find that inner power and that [00:41:00] magnetic self. 

David Zyla: It's wonderful. I mean, I have to say that, when someone who doesn't know what I do, um, meets me casually, they'll say, oh, you know, so you go shopping with people?

And I kind, I'm like, well, if you only knew there's, um, but I really feel that at the core, it's not even color and style that I'm working with. It's empowerment, you know? Mm-hmm. I, I really think that is the core of all of this work and leading people to be their best self, which is the easiest version of one to be.

Gabrielle: Yeah, there's a lot of strength in that too. And it becomes easier to shop and easier to walk into a room and you have that confidence you can go in and get that job because you're like, I feel great today. I know exactly what today is going to hold. 

So, if you'll indulge us, we have some listener questions and answers, would you be open to that?

David Zyla: Sure. 

Gabrielle: Okay, so the first one is how do you know [00:42:00] when you've truly found the right archetype? Especially if you've resonated with two or three. Is there like a key factor? Anything that'll just cinch it? 

David Zyla: You know, I would say that if one, uh, feels that they've got their palette, that they've got the archetype that connects with the archetype, I would say start wearing it and see what happens. And I think that feeling like yourself being noticed, I think that will tell you. If you are wearing something with confidence, I think, it's probably right for you. 

Like when you're saying, well, I'm gonna do this, this is my archetype. This feels right. And you wear it and you put it on, you look in the mirror, you go, this is me. This kind of completes my portrait. Um, and then when you go out into the world and people start noticing you a little bit more, and it might be subtle. And I also will say that a lot of times, like I always say that the best compliment that one can get is 'You look great.'

As opposed to great [00:43:00] bag or great dress. However, not everyone knows the difference, um, out in the world. So those are still good. But , the minute you start hearing, you look great. or, oh, did you do something different? , you look really good. Like you look very alive, or you look very healthy, or you look rested, or you look powerful, or you look, happy. You know? 

Gabrielle: Yeah. 

David Zyla: When you get feedback like that, I think that's testament to that you're completing the portrait correctly. 

Gabrielle: Yeah. , when people see you, they see you. And I think that's a really big power and fashion is low stakes day to day. It has obviously a huge power , on a larger scale. But try, you know, we all just need to play with fashion. It is a beautiful art. 

So the next question, what would you say to someone who felt unsure how to express or connect with their archetype right away? So it's a lot of new information, right? They get a color palette, they get this new world, and they might not have seen themselves this way yet. How do they begin? 

David Zyla: Sure. [00:44:00] I always recommend to everyone that I work with that when I create a palette that they spend some time in good natural light holding the palette up to them in front of a mirror and just getting used to what each color does and how it illuminates and how everything comes forward.

Um, and then I say, look at the things in your wardrobe that you don't wear that are completely different colors, and hold those up and start to discern that. So I feel that we start with the color and then I would say finding, accessories that connect with your archetype are the best way to start. It's a low level of commitment to buy.

Gabrielle: when you're selecting someone's individual palette, how do you know when it's enough? 

David Zyla: When I am working with a client, as I mentioned, , I throw out kind of the realm of possibilities. You know, like the rusty red, the one with a little bit more orange in it, the one with a little more brown and so on.

I've let it breathe in front of the [00:45:00] client and then at a certain point I test them all and I very quickly throw away the things that aren't as good. And I like to describe it that there's a click. It's sort of like I hold it off them. I'm like, boom. Like they're coming forward. Their facial features come forward, their coloring glows and comes, everything comes at me.

Um, 

Gabrielle: It's a fully finished painting. 

David Zyla: It is, it's kind of like, yep, that's it. Like it, it's kind of, um, uh, it's complete, you know? Uh, it's that it's kind of like, yeah, that's it. We've, we've, we've solved it. It's like it's, that is we've, unearthed, the treasure, if you will. It's like, it's all right there and it's all glowing and coming forward.

Gabrielle: Um, so in your process, does the archetype determine the palette or does the palate determine the archetype? 

David Zyla: You know, it's funny. Uh, everything. I've been working, in this world for a while, and when I meet someone, it all comes forward to me. Um, [00:46:00] but I would say generally speaking that it's the colors determine the archetype.

Um, I mean, that's what I really believe in. But again, since I've been doing this a while, when I meet someone, when I know I'm working and I've clicked it on, uh, when I meet them, it all sort of comes, it all comes forward at once. 

Gabrielle: Well, you're the master. You see the whole painting right away. For us DIYers, we gotta, we have to have a place to start.

Right. Um, but I, yeah, 

David Zyla: say the colors definitely are the place to start. 

Gabrielle: Okay. So people wanna know, do you have any plans to visit Europe anytime soon? 

David Zyla: Yes. Uh, I hope to be back there soon. Um, we are working on it. Oh, okay. 

Gabrielle: Take a nice summer vacation to Europe. You know, 

David Zyla: I think I was last there in August, I think.

No, December. I'm sorry, a year ago. December. Um, so it's time. It's time. Yeah. 

Gabrielle: You have some people They were, they're [00:47:00] asking for it. Um, oh, good. Good. So how do you assess someone's lines during a consultation? Do you mostly just like, look at their body or are you drawing lines? Are you, uh, examining their proportions?

David Zyla: So, uh, in the initial, uh, consultation, um, it's really color based and it's, it's sort of some general suggestions on silhouettes. Um, it's really the ultimate style session where I get into. The draping and we look at where the sleeve hits on the arm, but also how it connects to the rest of the body, et cetera.

So that's where we get into the real specifics of the lines. 

Gabrielle: Beautiful. And the last question we have for you from the listener q and a is, what advice do you have for someone who is trying to DIY? Like how literal do they have to be? Is like close enough, good enough? 

David Zyla: So you're asking that of a perfectionist.

Gabrielle: I know, sorry. [00:48:00] 

David Zyla: Um, um, I, so no, I, I'm joking with you, but, um, the, uh, I think that, um, you know, one of the things I would say in terms of DIY is that, um, brown eyes. Seldom really just brown. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I, I would say this, and I've done some videos on this in the past as well, when there is a light gray blue eye that has a, a little speck of gold in it, you could see it from two feet, two, three feet away.

Um, but if there is a darker eye that is lower contrast and there's a little green in it, yeah, it takes a little bit more, um, concentration to see that, um, because the contrast is lower and we see higher contrast more easily. So what I would say is when one [00:49:00] has a darker eye, um, to. Really like hold up greens, golds, um, rusts, purples, et cetera to see what else is there, um, and that, you know, and to pull that out.

Um, and my feeling is. Try not to be literal at the beginning because it closes you down to the possibilities. If you just say, well, what color is my hair? Brown? Well, well, what shade of brown? Mm-hmm. And does it have a greenish gold cast to it, or does it have. An Auburn or does it have, when you look really closely, does it have a little bit of an aubergene cast to it?

Um, so if you just say, well, my hair is brown, so here is, you know, chocolate brown, that must be it. Um, I think that that's probably not a good way to start. And I would start with what are the, the more [00:50:00] unusual choices? Um, and go from there and fine tune. 

Gabrielle: Yeah, it seems like we're looking at color in a much more precise way, but we're not, you know, we're trying to remove our subjective lens a little bit because if you've told, been told, you have like dishwater blonde hair, you are like, oh, I just have grubby blonde hair.

You know, you're not seeing all the golden wheat in it and the beautiful honeyed brown that is lying deep in those roots. You know, it's really kind of. Releasing yourself from what you told yourself that, well, I have brown eyes or brown hair. You know, I, I absolutely love it. Okay, so if you don't mind, I'm gonna give you two fun questions for the end of the interview.

Okay? Okay. So the first question is, what is your favorite color to wear right now? 

David Zyla: Oh, okay. Um, you know, I always love wearing my orange, uh, which I'm wearing right now. I always love wearing that. Uh, in the summer when I can find it, I [00:51:00] love wearing, a, uh, chartreuse green when I can find it. Mm-hmm.

Um, I just love that in the summer. It just feels very refreshing when I put it on. Uh, it's a pastel of my energy color. 

Gabrielle: Love that. And who do you, is there a media, either a character, a show, a film, a play that you have just been like, wow, they really bring, bring that character to life? 

David Zyla: Oh, oh. I think there are so many, I mean, we're such a, we're in an amazing era for television.

Um, the last 10 years, television has not been better. Uh, I think it's, there's so much extraordinary step storytelling, and I mean that through the writing as well as the design. Um, we've seen. You know, um, the sleekness of, you know, Madame Secretary, which has been, which really to me, that was a costume design. Plan that that really illuminated exactly who that [00:52:00] was, like brilliantly. , there are some other shows out there that have just captured it really well. , the Americans, which a friend of mine designed where, you know, when they weren't undercover, what would they like, who were they really like, that kind of storytelling through clothes has been incredible.

Um. Gosh, what else? And then, then of course there's a lot of wonderful, more flamboyance, um, that we can see, which is just, you know, eye candy and fun to look at. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think that there's, I think we're in an era, God, I'm mentioning all television. 

Gabrielle: It's okay. It's TV's great these 

David Zyla: days. Beautiful film design.

There's also. Great Broadway costume design as well, that tells the story. There's a, uh, few shows right now where the costumes, literally the characters walk out and you're like, yep, I know who that is. I know what the world is. I know where we're at. So Oh, I saw, 

Gabrielle: I saw Sarah Snook in, uh, the picture of Doreen Gray.

Wow. The [00:53:00] costumes. 

David Zyla: Yeah. Fantastic. 

Gabrielle: Yeah, really and 

David Zyla: unexpected, and I always use the, I like to say that unexpected is a great word, and I would say that that design was all unexpected. 

Gabrielle: Yes, it was a visual. It would just, it broke your imagination. You look at it and think, how can I have that level of creativity that is, it's amazing and I feel the same way about your work and I just wanna thank you so much for coming on.

It's been a pleasure to talk to you and I know that so many people find strength through your, through your system and through your archetype. So thank you again. 

David Zyla: Oh, thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure meeting you. 

Gabrielle: Okay. Until next time.