April Clemmer on Style Clarity and the Old Hollywood Star System

In this inspiring episode of Style POV, personal stylist and fashion and film historian April Clemmer unpacks the original “style system” that Hollywood perfected. April shares how film studios engineered star power through wardrobe and image strategy, and how we can take those same timeless lessons into our everyday lives.

We explore what classic stars like Audrey Hepburn understood about clarity, identity and presence on screen and how that translates into getting dressed with intention today. From avoiding the cookie-cutter effect to knowing the difference between a look that is classic versus dated, April offers a grounded and empowering path to style evolution.

If you want to elevate your wardrobe and confidence without losing yourself in the process, this one’s for you. Watch the full episode to learn how to use Hollywood wisdom to tell your own story through style.

Where to Find April Clemmer

Website: aprilclemmer.com

Instagram: @aprilshollywood

Sign up for April's Audrey Hepburn class {free}: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/create-your-iconic-style-a-masterclass-inspired-by-audrey-hepburn-tickets-1974315208937?aff=oddtdtcreator

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Disclaimer: The Style POV Podcast content is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. The views expressed by hosts and guests are their own. Gabrielle Arruda is not liable for any errors or omissions, and listeners use the information at their own risk.

Transcript

Transcript

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Gabrielle: [00:00:00] Today on Style POV, I'm joined by the amazing April Clemmer, a personal stylist and fashion and film historian who helps women connect timeless Hollywood lessons with modern personal style. April's background explore how studios once shaped star images, offers such a fascinating lens on how we can shape our own.

We'll talk about what Hollywood got right and wrong. How icons like Audrey Hepburn created enduring legacies through their style, and what it means today to balance authenticity with aspiration.

So let's get into it.

Thank you so much April for coming on. I am so excited to dive into your depth of knowledge all about old Hollywood and fashion history. Do you want to get us started and like talk a little bit about the image making that was there? Because there was so much thought and process behind creating an old Hollywood icon, right?

April Clemmer: Yes. It's so interesting to me to study classic Hollywood style. Because it is this controlled environment [00:01:00] where there are people dedicated to creating like the very best version of this character, when you got to the star level, the best version of you, although some of it was the character they wanted you to be, but the really smart stars and the ones that are, we call style icons, people like Grace Kelly or Audrey Hepburn, those were able to take in that image making and tweak it so that it was part of who they were, so it was completely authentic. They weren't acting anything out, and so they were able to create this connection that I think went beyond just like actress to audience. And went into like person to audience. And I think that's why they remind in the zeitgeist, you know, decades later.

Gabrielle: Yeah. Obviously the old Hollywood system was so deliberate with all of these choices and those stars that remained in the zeitgeist, you think [00:02:00] there was really a connection between their authentic selves and how they were portrayed.

Do you think that was accidental? Do you think that, like how did that old Hollywood system work? How would they take someone like Audrey Hepburn and transform her into the best version of herself? What was that process like?

April Clemmer: Yeah. Audrey Hepburn is a little bit different example because…

Gabrielle: Okay. You can choose a different example if you have someone in mind.

April Clemmer: Yeah. Well, she kind of had a different process and I would love to talk about that. But let's take Lana Turner.

Gabrielle: Okay.

April Clemmer: A little bit more someone who went through the process and was very obedient to that. So she came into her early career, I mean, technically late thirties, but really late.

The forties is when she gets started. They take her in and what does the forties look? You know, it's busty, suits the little tight sweaters. That's how she got the moniker sweater girl. But they did her [00:03:00] hair. Famously they ripped out everybody's eyebrows and redrew them.

Hers never grew back.

Gabrielle: Oh no.

April Clemmer: So forever, she was running around with this eyebrow pencil. But she was around at the time that Jean Harlow passed away, who was the original blonde bombshell. And I think that a lot of Lana Turner's look was influenced by, oh, we have a gap that we want to try to fill with a, and they probably had multiple starlets that they did this for.

They're, like, okay, blonde bombshell, so we're going to bleach your hair. There was a very uniform definition of beauty back then. So they went with, you know, makeup and contour and, rumors say, plastic surgery, for different people to create this standard of beauty that was very uniform back then.

Then with the clothes, they were like, okay, we want an hourglass, so we're going to [00:04:00] pad you out in these places. We're going to escort you to the commissary and make you eat soup every day, like Judy Garland, because you're too big in the wrong places, you know?

Some people were too small, and they would make them wear pads to pad out their bust. It was very formulaic in the sense that we want to fill a certain hole or a certain character in our system. They took you and remade you into that.

Gabrielle: What do you think is the magic behind the people? Because obviously they did this with a lot of people. They weren't like Lana Turner is the only one who can fill this new slot. They probably spread out their kind of a 'we're going to try this with a couple different starlets and whoever makes it you big is going to be our blonde bombshell now.'

April Clemmer: Exactly.

Gabrielle: So what do you think was the magic behind the people that did make it? Was it something about there was an authentic combination? Was it just kind of luck? Is there any narrative connection [00:05:00] between the person and the success that we can pull out?

April Clemmer: I think there definitely is. Luck is always a part of anything. To me it's not just in the star system, you know? Luck is in life and you can do things to make that happen for you. Yeah, and what I notice in some of the stars that do really stand out is that they didn't completely go along with this whole system. Maybe because they were just a contrarian personality or, they just had some sort of, authentic thing they couldn't let go of, that couldn't be bleached out of them or plucked out of them, or patted out of them.

You can look at a Marilyn Monroe and you think, oh, she's such the blonde bombshell, she's such a studio product. But she did a lot of crazy stuff for the time and that made people fall in love with her. Just the fact that she was different. She did a nude [00:06:00] calendar and she refused to apologize and say she was embarrassed about it. She misbehaved all over the place, and so people love that.

Clara Bow is the same kind of example. She was Brooklyn, you couldn't take that out of her. You wouldn't want to because that was her charm. It just glowed and radiated from her. I do think a charisma is part of that. But then you have, you know, just little things like Ava Gardner was one that wouldn't let them pluck her eyebrows.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: She's like, oh, I kind of went along with stuff, but then they were going to do that. And I was like, absolutely not. And she just didn't have this like fire personality. And all of those people, I think just were able to somehow hold onto a bit of authenticity. And so when you look at a row of things that are all alike, there is a quote, and I am going to not remember exactly who said it, but I'm sure somebody listening knows.

It's not an unusual quote, but it says ‘There's no beauty without some strangeness in the [00:07:00] proportion.’ When you make something too perfect, it's too uniform and there's nowhere for your eye to go, and it's a little boring. And there's nothing for you to grab onto.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: A lesson that you can take from stars that were iconic and stuck with the audience is that they had something unique that they refused to let go of.

Gabrielle: Yes, absolutely. I love that. That's the interesting part, like the studios were trying to check boxes and they wanted you to fill these boxes. They wanted you to have the hourglass. They wanted you to have the perfect cloth hair. They wanted you to be in vogue that women would want to aspire to be this person.

But at the same time, you have too much of a cookie-cutter. There's no interest, there's no spice. I'm sure for the stars themselves, it was more confining too. The people who were able to be empowered by the system and say, 'I'm going to be my best self, but I'm also going to be myself' probably were able to use the system to elevate themselves to become the Marilyn Monroe or the Rita Hayworth's.

Some [00:08:00] of them I think. Like, I think, Rita Hayworth did try to reclaim some of her narrative too at some point where she was like, I'm going to have my own style now. Like, you guys got me here but now I'm going to go here.

Let's talk a little bit more. Because I love the point you brought up about what people today can learn from the icons about the balance between image and authenticity. Because I think a lot of us struggle with that today, right?

April Clemmer: Yeah. Three things I work with clients on are style clarity, style creation, and then style curation. Okay. Style clarity is knowing who you are as a person before you drop yourself into a mold. So I believe the stars that really knew themselves just knew 'this is not going to work for me. I'm not cooperating.'

Those were the people that threw a fit on set. You know, if they had to. I'm not saying you should go to work and like throw a fit about the dress code tomorrow. I don't do that. But they had a sense of who they were, a very strong sense of [00:09:00] who they were and they brought that into the roles that they embodied. They brought that into their everyday life.

I can illustrate all of this with Audrey Hepburn in just a second.

Gabrielle: Yes, please.

April Clemmer: Like, for Audrey Hepburn, like coming into Roman holiday was just really what blew her up. Such a good movie, and she is just glowing in it.

That's the movie where, she wasn't going to be top billing. And then as they were shooting her co-star said, 'You know what? You really need to put her.'

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: She's it.

Gabrielle: Like, come on guys. this is what it means to be a star.

April Clemmer: Yeah. That was, I believe, 1953 and 1953 is we're in full bombshell mode, you know?

Yeah. If we started with Lana, like now we're in, like Marilyn is also coming up around this time. She is the blonde bombshell, you know?

Gabrielle: She is, yeah.

April Clemmer: This time. You couldn't get farther away from that than Audrey Hepburn. So she's coming into this system where she knows, okay, this is what they're going to try to do to me, and I'm [00:10:00] not this. I'm never going to be this. And so

Gabrielle: I can't compete with the Marilyns. Like that's not my role, that's not my path. And if I tried to do that, I would probably have a really poor showing. And it's kind of like an embrace of her own beauty. Because she's stunning.

April Clemmer: Yeah. She was very confident in that and she never tried to, and that's where a lot of people go wrong. Let's say you're in corporate America and like I show up to these events and society says like, I wear a suit. Yeah. That you a maybe you don't look great unless it's very specifically cut or maybe it just makes you feel very confined and uncomfortable, but just for whatever reason it just doesn't represent you and it even stifles you.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: Like Breakfast at Tiffany's, that was supposed to be Marilyn Monroe.

Gabrielle: What a different movie it would be too.

April Clemmer: It would. It would. And just the vision that Audrey Hepburn, you know, what she was [00:11:00] able to bring to that as a total opposite of what the character originally was.

It's just she had so much clarity and confidence in herself, but she wasn't trying to be that she had done Vallet, you know? She brought in elements of that, and these are just examples. Like there's so many ways you can do this. You know, as a person, and it kind of depends on you, which is why it's such an important step when you're styling someone to really know them.

She brought in like kind of the slim long lines because that's how she was shaped. She knew that's what looked good on her. She did the ballet flats. She felt more comfortable walking around like that. And I think her moment is going to Givenchy and Edith Head was going to design and probably did.

There's so much lore in stories.

Gabrielle: I know. Who designed her biography is fantastic. I see it in the back of your eyes.

April Clemmer: Yes. I love her. No shade on Edith Head, we're not like nitpicking

Gabrielle: No.

April Clemmer: On that. Of course. Yeah. But Audrey Hepburn to go to Paris and she went to the Givenchy showroom, and they were expecting [00:12:00] Katharine Hepburn.

Gabrielle: Oh, no.

April Clemmer: Because they just said, we're sending Hepburn me this new Hepburn girl. Yeah. And so of course, like, who was the Hepburn? It was Katharine, so they get there and he's prepping for a show. Nobody knows who she is. Yeah. So just to shut her up, they said, look, just go in and, you know, pick out three things.

She did, and she comes out and she's a totally different person. The minimalist, like those structured lines. She just had studied what looked good on her. What do you wear if you're a bombshell? It's like clingy. It's super tight, you know it.

Audrey didn't do that. She had a totally different look. And so she had selected these outfits. You go back to Hollywood, she does Roman Holiday and she's created this look for herself. Yeah. And it is totally different, but it's totally her.

She's able to pull it off and essentially start this whole new trend and this whole new way of looking at [00:13:00] beauty, especially in Hollywood. And then she goes on to continue to work with Givenchy over the years, which is kind of the style curation part because I think you evolve and she evolved, you know, her career went into the sixties, I believe into the seventies. And she never looked dated.

Gabrielle: I know.

April Clemmer: But she had people around her. She had people advising her, people that understood her. And understood how style could enhance what she was around her advising her.

Gabrielle: I know, and for all of our Audrey fans, I want to mention this now and we'll talk about it later, but you have a masterclass all about her style which we will make sure is linked there. Because her style is really something to study because as you've mentioned, she just has this ability to take her lines, her beauty, and amplify it, and put a spotlight on 'I'm not Marilyn Monroe, but I could take a Marilyn dress and make it work for me in this way, this way, in this way.'

She had this ability to see something and apply it in her own lens, which I think is really hard to do nowadays. Which do you want to talk a little bit [00:14:00] about your process with clients and how you find style clarity? Because there's a lot of noise these days and it seemed like Audrey's magic in enduring decades of style and keeping up with the times was yes, she had a whole team behind her.

We're not discounting that and Givenchy and beautiful people working for her to say, let's help you. But there was something about her knowledge of herself.  Her loyalty to that, that she wasn't willing to say, 'Well, let me try blonde hair because that's in vogue, you know? So, talk a little bit more, if you don't mind, about style clarity and how we find it.

April Clemmer: It's really knowing who you are and embracing that. A key part of it is allowing space to evolve. You first find yourself. A lot of people are maybe in late teens, early twenties, you know, you have this kind of idea of who you are, but then you move on and you like every, they, I think they say like every seven years, like you have a big evolution. And [00:15:00] so you need to allow for that  with your look. Because it's two-way communication. Like your clothes are obviously like kind of your visual cue to the world, but there're also a cue for you as to who you are. And there have been studies done on that where they give people different garments and they literally are told.

They'll give them a white, I think most people know this study, but it's like the white coat study where they give people white coats. Half of 'em, they tell them they're painters, half of them, they tell them they're doctors. And the doctors took on these qualities of a doctor of like being very accurate. Like they'll performed better on tests. They did like a…

Gabrielle: Some version of an IQ test and they had scored higher. The people who were told they were doctors. So there was a general correlation that what you wear and what you're told, what that means is that, you know, and it's a, it's a way you embody that.

April Clemmer: Yeah. It's like you identify yourself with certain groups. People identify you that way. It's a really holistic thing to gain style clarity. [00:16:00] So, you know, you're thinking about colors. It's really fun. It's really inspiration. It's like examining your relationship with rules that you may have.

I don't wear this color, or I don't wear this type of garment , or I don't wear makeup all the time.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: It's self-examination. It's like, why are we thinking about that and not judging those things?

I think what's really freeing about being in the world of style right now is that you get to make the rules. As long as you're being true to yourself. Like we have lost so many of the societal cues that tell you how to behave in specific ways. There are good and bad aspects to that, but one of them is you have a lot more freedom to express yourself and be who you are.

It has to be authentic. And so I think like going through and like doing the work to find yourself authentically. Taking in, you know, who am I at work? Who am I at home? Who am I with my friends? There's something I call, like a style through line. [00:17:00] That when you find that kind of clarity, it creates this through line to where you become someone like if you go to the grocery store or if you're at like a huge meeting, obviously you're wearing very different things. It's like a through line and it's hard to nail down because it can be different for different people.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: It could be an accessory, it could be a color, it could be like the line of your clothes, just the way you present. It makes people trust you and you know exactly who you're getting.

Gabrielle: Yeah, there's a self identifying. I don't even think other people have to understand it. I think it's most important for you to first understand it.

April Clemmer: Yes.

Gabrielle: Like what makes me, me, when I'm going to the grocery store? What makes me, me, when I'm picking up my son from school? What makes me, me when I'm going to a fancy gala? Where's the element of me that I feel stable in, that I feel authentic in? And that is something that the Star system helped people create because they dove into that and they said like, what are we doing with this person? What boxes are we trying to fill?

Then, as we talked about the ones that were really successful, they [00:18:00] had this self-awareness to say, 'No, that one's not for me.' 'You can do this, you can do this, but this one's not authentic.' And I think with so much fashion freedom now that can be hard to figure out. The one line where we're like, no, that trend isn't for me or that style system doesn't work for me.

Do you have any advice on people trying to find that through line?

April Clemmer: It's hard. One of the most important things you can do that everybody knows, but people don't do, is to clean out your closet or edit your closet and you don't have to throw it away.

Gabrielle: No.

April Clemmer: But I don't care what you do with it. I just don't want anything you don't wear on a regular basis or that doesn't fit you, or that's more of a scrapbook item like your prom dress or you met your partner in this outfit, or, you know. Like, that stuff's got to go. There's so many choices and so many options. And when you keep things around because you maybe you feel guilty that you haven't [00:19:00] worn it enough or like someone gave it to you, or maybe it'll fit one day again, those convolute things. I have had this experience and probably most people have a wearing an outfit that just doesn't feel right.

All day you're like, it's just kind of off. So you should put that away and like, never do that again. But you're like, 'oh, I bought this and I've only worn it twice, and maybe it'll work in a different situation.' So just what that does is it's just like one of the many other options in your closet, and when you're having a meltdown, that shouldn't be there.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: Because you have lost your powers of judgment at that point. And you'll, go to that and you'll put it on again, you know, and you'll just keep making the same mistakes. So when you have moments of clarity of this works or this doesn't like, notice those.

Gabrielle: Yeah, I think it's fun to of go in your closet after you've cleaned it out And look at it through a Hollywood lens or a narrative lens or a movie lens. Yeah. Like who is this character? What is she doing? What would I think about her? What [00:20:00] adjectives would I use? What's her morning like? Like, she has a lot of lounge wear. Well, she probably has leisurely time, or she spends a lot of time at home and really evaluate, is this authentic to me? Does this shape the style that I want to have?

Now I want to talk something about that we touched on before. But I didn't get to ask this idea of timelessness, which I think is like very true to Audrey Hepburn and very true to a lot of these star image styles, is that they have very timeless style, but it's not just classic.

How do you think they're able to balance those two things? That it's not just classic pieces or they weren't wearing exactly what was prescriptive for the time. They were able to take a style and really create longevity within it.

April Clemmer: Yeah. I think you look at elements of line. The way something is shaped, the way that it's cut. The fit on you.

Gabrielle: Yeah. That one is so key.

April Clemmer: Yeah. And like the color. So if you look at a Grace Kelly.

Gabrielle: Yeah. [00:21:00] Okay.

April Clemmer: Like Grace Kelly's clothes were so classic. So many photos of her. You look at that and you think, oh, I could wear that today. You could wear it today, but what you would do is you would take this basic, let's say, everybody remembers that dress from is it to catch a thief

Gabrielle: Rear? No, I think it's rear.

April Clemmer: Rear. Window.

Gabrielle: Window. Yeah. The black dress.

April Clemmer: Yeah. Yeah. With the, it's for, if anyone hasn't seen it, it's like kind of this off, off the shoulder, black dress.

Gabrielle: Fitted at the waist.

April Clemmer: It's a huge white skirt with black embroidery. So it's a very fifties shape. Let's say if you were going to wear that today, you could. But I would look at what, shapes are people wearing now? They're not doing that kind of ballerina volume in the skirt.

It's just like adjusting for the time that you're in. You can keep the shape, but just maybe take the volume down in the skirt. Maybe take a little bit of length off. Because we're not doing that like fifties tea length as much right now. If you're trying to keep something that is very important to you in your style [00:22:00] through line.

Let's say this dress shape is sort of a thing for you, yeah, just make a few tweaks like that. and then it's fine. Minimalism is one thing, although I hate to make that a rule, I really hate anything that's a rule. But a lot of times, when you keep statement on something that is, maybe you are like, oh, I'm, I'm an Emerald Green person.

I just love to have a pop of that everywhere. And you know, you can change up what you're wearing, but you keep that, that can be like a line for you. I would say for taking classic clothes, it's just like little tweaks to the cut and the shape and kind of paying attention.

That's the difference in looking dated versus, classic or even vintage. Because vintage is a compliment usually.

Gabrielle: Yes.

April Clemmer: But dated is definitely not.

Gabrielle: Yeah. Well, I think the magic with Grace Kelly, I think too was that she wasn't afraid to take classic pieces, but still express parts of her in there.

They weren't just [00:23:00] safe. Nothing about her style was always just safe. They always had little flares and everything felt like those flares or those through lines felt very continuous. You know, like she always looked polished and put together from head to toe. She always had similar hairstyles. They were always very controlled.

The accessories were very pointed, but she'd always have one interesting thing within it, like in that dress, all the beading and the volume on the skirt. That's a pretty bold dress actually. It's not like what You'd say like, let's choose a moderate safe outfit. Like no, that dress had some punch to it, but it was still within the vein of her sophistication.

That blue dress that's always on Pinterest with the chiffon kind of cape over her shoulder. Again, it has this like element. Yes. It's just a fitted blue dress. Very evening. But then she has this cape that kind of billows and we get these through lines where she's like, I'm classic, but I have a twist.

She knew where she could play with those things and she wasn't going to be doing like a crazy outlandish [00:24:00] hat with a novelty inspired thing that Audrey might have done because that wouldn't have fit her personality. So that element of harmony is really interesting, I think, in how they were able to create this timeless image.

April Clemmer: Yeah, I know. Stylists do, including me, will often ask people to come up with adjectives that describe them. Yeah. what I've found is, I did this as an exercise a couple of years ago. I found myself like writing the same adjectives down. Like, what do I want my outfit to say?

How do I want to feel in it, you know? And I found those words being the same. That's a great exercise. And what it kind of made me think about in everything you were talking about with Grace Kelly, coincides with is the star, when studios were creating an image, and the ones that really worked like an Audrey Hepburn or Grace Kelly.

After a while, if you're looking at a script and you're looking at this character, you're like, oh, Grace Kelly, this is what we want or this is an Audrey Hepburn, or this is a Marilyn Monroe and they don't need to [00:25:00] audition. Like, they're going to show up and be this certain thing.

Gabrielle: Yes.

April Clemmer: A big part of that, I think was their style. That's finding your three words or whatever. Those are ways, I was just trying to think of some practical applications, like a way that someone can come up with some style clarity. And then have things to go to when they're just kind of lost. It's hard, it's like, who am, who do I want to be at the grocery store? Like most people will be like, I don't want to think about that. Like, that's a lot.

Gabrielle: But the style cycle that they had is really interesting, which, what is what you're talking about? Is like, they were like, I'm not known to anyone. I'm fitting myself into this system, or the people are telling me who I have to be.

I'm choosing the boxes that I apply, right? Like I'm not doing the eyebrow thing. I'm not going to be like, you know, miss Modesty over here, or whatever the case may be.

They're infusing those boxes with their own personal style, and then eventually they become so big and so memorable that people are like equating characters with their vibes, which is such a validation, right? That they have [00:26:00] created this identity through their style that people can read a script and be like, that's a Grace Kelly. If we can't get Grace Kelly, we need someone like Grace Kelly. You know? Like it became a category, which I think is really interesting.

So, let's talk a little bit about like the tradition and like bucking the system because I think that some of the more successful people did buck the system a little bit. They were able to say like, no, this one's for me, or, no, this, or, yes, this is okay. No, you've pushed me too far. Like how do we do that in our styles today?

April Clemmer: A when you have that style clarity, it's easy to know when you can buck the system. I'm going to tell you a story about when I booked a style system and it's not dramatic Hollywood, but bear with me.

When I was growing up, I was in beauty pageants. And it was a very prescriptive thing, it was also for me, competition for someone who wasn't good at sports.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: But this was a time [00:27:00] when your shoes had to match your dress and you wore a business suit to the interview and you wore pantyhose with everything. And it was like, you check all these boxes. Then hopefully you check all the boxes, right. And then you win. So I was very obedient to style rules back then, so I was just trying really hard. I didn't do like the little girl pageants. It was like weird. I did like the miss my high school, miss my county.

It is my senior year I'm from Lincoln County, Georgia. They have a Miss Lincoln County pageant. I'm going to be in it. I was getting ready for the interview and I was so nervous. Like I hated and I hated suits. And I still don't really like suits.

I'm trying to get through this blazer moment that we're having. And it's just really hard. Like it just makes me feel constricted. If I really pay attention to how I feel in a suit, I feel suffocated and kind of stiff. I just had this moment of so much anxiety that I was I just, I just, something in me was just like, no, like I can't do this.

So, [00:28:00] I broke the rule and you know, I know it's a beauty legend. It's not like a rule, you know, but for me, it was that serious.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: I was like, what do I have that's nice? And I put on just this like blue shift dress, no jacket, no anything like that. I put on some high heel sandals and did not wear pantyhose and a scarf.

I'm just going to go like this. Like, I mean, I was, I was making myself late is how much anxiety I had. And so I think by removing the suit, I'm not saying I wouldn't have had a great interview in the suit. But I went in and I was just like, I'm here. Hello. And they were, you know, oh, what do you want to do after high school?

I had this little like, answer I was going to give, and I was just like, all that was out the window. I was like, you know what? I'm going to go to New York and be an actress. And they're like, oh really? And I was like, yes. And so I was just like. So free. I just had the best time and I thought, you know, I don't care if I win because that was really fun. Yeah. I go on and and I did win, but I think what was really winning about that for me [00:29:00] was like, oh, like rules or guidelines. I'm from the south, I have a sense of occasion. And so there are things that are appropriate and inappropriate, but in a high stakes situation for yourself, I think it's more important to really be who you really are.

Your clothes should completely support you. And so anything about what you're wearing, if it doesn't support you, then it shouldn't be there. So being creative, having like an accessory that makes you feel confident or bold or safe even. Just reexamining what you're expected to wear and how that aligns with you where those two things can meet in the middle.

Gabrielle: Yeah. It sounds like you found so much strength in your style, which is like a thing I love to tell people is to find strength through style like that that is there and it can help you be your best self and help you go after the things you want and free you from that.

I think that's what a lot of people are struggling with these days is that there's so much fashion [00:30:00] information, inspiration trends, and you have to be able to filter it through your own lens, your own internal rules, your own star system, kind of so that you can say yes to this, no to this. And this is why it matches my style through line. This is the next evolution.

Let's talk about someone who did kind of subvert the system or kind of what we can learn from people, who subverted the star system, like Katharine Hepburn did that in her time. Right.

April Clemmer: I'm so glad you brought her up because I was thinking, oh my gosh, we haven't talked about Katharine Hepburn, Marlene Dietrich and Greta Garbo, which were like the trifecta of women who wore pants before

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: It was okay.

Gabrielle: And reclaimed that power of their narrative. Like they were like, I'm going to be empowered by my success and my image.

April Clemmer: Yeah. You know, Katherine Hepburn is another person that I can't imagine her fitting into this bombshell kind of movie star, perfect persona.

She came [00:31:00] along when, you know, that kind of witty wisecracking kind of character was popular, and she was so good at that. But there are a lot of people that come into the star system, have their moment and then aren't able to continue it when one specific thing goes out of vogue.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: But Katherine Hepburn was another one who was really strong. She figured out who she was and what her style was early on, so that in through the forties and the fifties, when things looked different than her, she already was a Katharine Hepburn. So you would read the script. This is her. Yeah. She had already established herself, and that's really the magic of style and dressing like a Hollywood icon, like with that level of knowing yourself is that you're kind of creating this persona where people will cast you the way that you want in your life.

Gabrielle: I think that applies to like us as modern day people as well.

When you craft a space for yourself and you have an iconic style, people know what to expect from you. They associate certain [00:32:00] things from you. So if you want to be, it's not saying you have to dress in stereotypes. That's not true because Katharine bucked that system and she didn't follow the trends of the time.

She was like, I'm going to do this because this is what feels innate to me. We can do the same thing if you want to be an artist and you're, well, maybe I do need to eliminate the suit. Maybe I don't wear the suit to the business meeting. Maybe I wear exactly what I am, and people will know what to expect of me.

They'll know that this is my image. That this is my expression, and they'll start to form this narrative story around me. So when they need that artist, and I fit that box. That there's no one else in their head that pops up except me. And it's really taking that space and being like, here's what I am to the world.

Where do I fit in? You know, using clothes as that powerful thing.

April Clemmer: That's such a good point. That's so true. Yeah.

Gabrielle: You talked about your three steps with your clients, like how do you get them from the style clarity into outfits they love and feel empowered by?

April Clemmer: Like I said, we do a lot of work around the [00:33:00] clarity, and then from there it's pretty, I don't want to say easy, but I feel like kind of my superpower is watching something come into focus. Like on a kaleidoscope, it's like, you have all these pieces and then they just sort of come together. Um, we do an exercise where I put together a mood board for them and they get feedback on it. But it's not just clothes. It's not, like, I'm going to get you this pair of pants. It might be, you know, a style icon that they love. It might be music that they love. A photo of, or a piece of art. You take in all these different things to inspire color, texture, the cuts, and the silhouettes. You distill those very practical things out of how people want to be perceived or how they just are.

One thing that I was noticing with shape that's so important is my daughter was watching this movie and there's like a princess in the movie. I was noticing the shape of a princess. Where it's kind of like a [00:34:00] bell. Yeah. It's not quite an hourglass. It's more like a bell where it's very big at the bottom and it gets smaller and usually they have like a pretty little v-neck thing at the top, but it's all this volume at the bottom. And she's a ruler, she's an authority, but she's very benevolent, you know?

Then if you flip that, what do you get? You get the villain. Like the villain usually has like big and broad shoulders at the top. He's like you know, an inverted triangle. And I was like, oh, that's so interesting. It's just like two shapes. We just flip it and they mean two completely different things in these stories that we read.

So once you know, like the way you want to come across, and you know how colors affect people and how, fabrics and cuts, shapes, all of those things affect people. It's just like kind of putting a puzzle together.

Gabrielle: Yeah. And I love that thing. Because when you look at old animations, even the lines that they use to draw the villains are like sharp and pointed and heavy, and they had this intensity to them.

Then the princesses get these like much finer pencil drawings that feel [00:35:00] like lighter and more delicate and each like drawing. Like if you were to redraw Belle from Beauty and the Beast, you know? Yeah. She has this very soft. Her hair is soft and swoopy, you know, and like the beast has all these jagged pieces of hair coming out, and Gaston has all these sharp elements to his face.

April Clemmer: And not saying like, these are inherently good or bad and style.

Gabrielle: No, of course.

April Clemmer: You're evil if you like sharp.

Gabrielle: No, but it's interesting. What I'm saying is that there's a connection point to how we see certain lines and shapes...

April Clemmer: Yeah.

Gabrielle: …and understanding their impact. And they do this in animation. They do this in clothing, you know, even on the runways. And sometimes it's about combining those opposite things too, to create a more interesting thing. But it goes to speak to the fabric, the texture, the silhouette, and how all these things can elevate a look.

Do you want to talk about how someone might use their own kind of star system today? If someone wanted to try the Star system treatment for themselves, would they be able to do it?

April Clemmer: Yeah, I think you could. Looking [00:36:00] at, you know, the style clarity, you'd be really clear on a certain archetype that you want to be. And you would just study that and you would see, okay, this is the fabrics and the textures and the colors that I see with that. What shape do they tend to be like? Is it, like you said, like is it sharp edges?

Is it like a softer look? If it's softer, probably you're going to have more dainty fabrics. You know, is it clean and minimalist, or are there a lot of details or the details delicate, or are they bold? You know, but you can do your grooming and your hair. So studio system first, like they put you in and they evaluate you.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: So they put you on a screen test and this for you yourself, you would just be really honest and be like, what are the things I really love about myself? What are things I would maybe want to, I don't want to say, I hate to say change, but you know, clothes are the fastest way to transform something.

You can change your proportions with your clothes. So like, do you, do I like the shape [00:37:00] that I feel? Do I want to enhance it here or there? So you can kind of, create from raw material, then you go through like your grooming.

How are you going to style your hair? Are you going to wear makeup? If so, like, what is that going to be like? Then you move into like your basic shapes and colors, lines. And then, you put the icing on top. Put the like little accessories and the little unique touches yeah that make it you.

The fun part is you can keep evolving it. You know? As you go through your life and things change or you change. You can go back through that again and again, like, it should be fun, you know? Yeah. It's not that it's like serious, but it's not that serious.

Gabrielle: Yes. You know, you're not choosing your ghost outfit for the rest of your life.

April Clemmer: Yes.

Gabrielle: You're evolving, you're trying things out. You're having play periods. I mean, I think about if the star image was for someone like Marilyn Monroe, and I know this, not exactly how it worked, but like Marilyn Monroe versus Katharine Hepburn. They looked [00:38:00] at that starting point very differently, and I think what they did is they were like, here's the general box I fit into. But I don't fit perfectly into it. 'I, Katharine Hepburn am not going to try to fit into the blonde bombshell Marilyn Monroe box. Like, that's not my box.' I think there was an innate sense of, here's the general outline.

That's why I think fashion history can be such an interesting evolution of how you develop that style, what archetype, what that archetype actually means. Because they were forming those archetypes. They were kind of the exemplars of these archetypes, and playing around with where you fit in that system could be really just fun to play with.

Like, am I a Marilyn Monroe, or would that be a costume on me?

April Clemmer: I think you can trace almost any modern style people are wearing back to a decade between, I don't know, do we include the nineties? I don't know, maybe the nineties, all the way back to like the 1910s. Like that era, that's kind of where everything in our modern style [00:39:00] comes from.

It's fun to be like, where would I have fit in? Like what decade, you know, decades are another, like, what decade do I love?

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: How did they dress? You know, what kind of shoes? What were the fabrics?

Gabrielle: What was the energy? The adjectives?

April Clemmer: Yeah.

Gabrielle: Like the, what picture did it paint? What is sparking in my brain when I think 1960s? And how was that just a different vibe than 1930s? Do you think that celebrities today could benefit from a star system, or do you think it wouldn't work anymore? What are your thoughts on that?

April Clemmer: This is an unpopular opinion, but I think there were a lot of great qualities to the studio system, you know? Having a system, just in making really good films. Because it kept people that worked well together, together in teams. It kept people sort of in their sweet spot.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: We've been trashing like, the system and bucking the system and talking about those kinds of things, but I think the [00:40:00] guidelines were very helpful for a lot of people. Like, I don't know if Marilyn would've found her real, like that gentleman preferred blonde sort of persona with no help at all.

Gabrielle: Oh, yeah.

April Clemmer: Oh my God, the costumes in that movie are so beautiful. But like they are just, if you look at like her early modeling photos. Then you look at how she looked when she went through the system. It did polish people up.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: And I think, for the most part, like to their advantage. I mean, there's a lot in the studio system, this kind of starlet making system that I disagree with in terms of the way people were treated.

Gabrielle: Yeah.

April Clemmer: But I mean, no one's helping the, these days, you know, like no one's giving, like in the absence of rules which I don't love. But usually there's kind of a spirit of something that is going to help you present better. Yeah. And so when you have absolutely no guidance except for endless photos on Pinterest and like [00:41:00] influencers and then, or do they like this? Or are they just telling you to buy it because they got a paycheck?

You really don't know and so I think creating like a little archetype star. Like who are you as a star? Yeah. Like what are your qualities? Like what are the things that we hire you for? What do we love for you to be? What do you love to be?

Gabrielle: There's like a knowledge element and a self element and an execution element, and I think these things all have to kind of come into play.

You have to know knowledge about style, whether you apply it or not. You have to understand this is what this fabric does to me. This is what this cut does to my body. This is what I like wearing. And then it's the personal thing. I like wearing this, even if it's not my most in harmony and then there's an execution.

Taking the knowledge, taking the individuality and being able to be like, here's an outfit that feels completely like me, because I know the blazer isn't my best look. But if I keep it in a fitted satin, then it works for my style and I feel bold and dramatic and cool. So I'm happy with my look. So it's all these [00:42:00] things.

I think the star system really shows you. And this is something that I think we can glean from them, is that how to create an image, how to create that through line. Because it's not like Marilyn Monroe only wore one silhouette or only wore one type of fabric, or only had this, but her image was consistent.

It felt like it tapped on these different, whether she was wearing a like cutesy dress out in the woods and reading a book or you know, she was in Gentleman Preferred Blondes. They still felt like different sides of her personality, and they were connected. And I think that that's where understanding Old Hollywood and understanding those icons and their style through lines is so powerful.

Because you see it in action. You see, I took this person and I amplified their look. Yeah. Not always in the best ways. I agree, and when I say not in the best ways, I mean not in the healthiest way, is that the stars definitely were put through the ringer.

April Clemmer: Yeah. But like you, I mean, they did for a lot of people, [00:43:00] amplify really good things. Raw material that helps them connect with an audience and have this career and be an inspirational figure for people.

Gabrielle: Yes, and an enduring icon and style, people that we revere for having this authentic expression. So I want you to talk a little bit about your masterclass on Audrey Hepburn because I think Audrey's style is unmatched, and we have so much admiration for her ability to be herself and always look amazing. Talk a little bit about that.

April Clemmer: When I thought about doing this masterclass idea, I didn't want to do Audrey Hepburn because I was like.

Gabrielle: Oh really?

April Clemmer: My gosh. Like, she's so done. Everybody talks about her, like, I want to pick someone different. But her style journey, like you said, it's just, it's unmatched in terms of people knowing exactly who she is.

Having this perfect picture of her that really communicates everything that she stood for, who she was, what you were [00:44:00] getting. And so I dove into her style journey of what was she like? What was raw material, Audrey?  What did that look like, and what elements of that did she bring in when she decided to acknowledge that she could try to be a blonde bombshell but that wouldn't lead to her being successful ultimately.

Gabrielle: No.

April Clemmer: And that's a very powerful ability. Number one, to know what you are and what you're not. And then to understand that even though you're not what might be the perfect thing, what you are is perfect for you and what you're going to be able to do, and there is something perfect for you out there even if you create it.

Her journey was so powerful with getting into a point in her career where, you know, she could have just been put into this mold that she didn't fit, and she could have just gone along with it, but she decided to take a risk. She did something different.

I would say she might have risked insulting Edith Head, which would be scary, you know, at the time.

Gabrielle: Yeah, for sure.

April Clemmer: Yeah, [00:45:00] they were fine. They were cool. But, you know, she took a risk. She knew that she needed to take. She went to Paris. But she still had to do the work.

They weren't like, oh, we're just going to dress you now. And so, you know, she went in and she created this look that was perfectly her. She pulled it off. Other people bought into it. And then she from there, was always able to stay true to this formula that she had created while evolving and keeping it fresh.

I just go through, in this masterclass, what that whole journey looks like for her. And then in a little more detail than we've done here. Like what it can look like for you.

Gabrielle: That's incredible.

April Clemmer: If you want to go. Similar journey.

Gabrielle: Yeah. Because her journey is a great example of successful style done on your own terms, and I think we could all benefit from that similar process of examining how this successful icon was created, you know, and then trying it out for ourselves.

What would be my icon? Where would I fall in this world? So we'll make sure that's definitely [00:46:00] linked in the show notes. I always like to end kind of on a fun question, so if you'll indulge me.

April Clemmer: Sure.

Gabrielle: If you could choose an old Hollywood actress, and you had to dress them for the modern-day red carpet, who would it be, and what would you be putting her in or him?

April Clemmer: Oh, wow. I've always wanted to dress Clara Bow.

Gabrielle: Oh.

April Clemmer: I don't feel like she was ever, you know, early on, like the industry was just getting started. So you had costume designers, but you didn't have this whole formula. And she would always, her clothes didn't seem to ever be comfortable to her.

In Wings, she had to wear this nurse uniform with a belt, and she would always be like, hiking it up, putting it in the, you know, they're trying to make her look, like, less sexual, but it's like Clara Bow. So, yes, she kept hiking the belt up to make her have this tight waist thing.

I would love to dress her and put her in something that's form-fitting, [00:47:00] but flowy. Like something that just really moves with her. Because she was so animated. And she was so unpredictable and fresh. And so I would love to, you know, maybe just have her in, you know, something very light and filmy and shimmery.

Just that, gosh, I like, wish we had color photos of all these areas.

Gabrielle: Oh, I know.

April Clemmer: I'm just wondering how, you know, like a kind of Tawny green fury fabric would look on her, but just something that moves and shimmers and kind of like is reflecting that luminosity in her eyes.

Gabrielle: Yeah, I love that.

April Clemmer: And then something that's freeing for her to wear and then just let her go. I just think she was such a treasure.

Gabrielle: She was.

April Clemmer: I hate how her life turned out. I just wish she could go through it all again, and just like experience, I think, all the love that people still have for her, and then people even had back then for her.

Gabrielle: Yeah. And it's so interesting that you picked up on like her adjusting the belt and how clothes can really be that [00:48:00] confidence for you. Or they can be that thing that you're just like, this isn't me, this isn't me and my skin. Obviously she was performing, so that's different. But still like to have her be in that billowy thing that mimics her movements and allows her to be a little bit more free in herself.

That's such a good example of just owning your space and having your clothes be that support system to you instead of that confining, I'm checking a box here, you know?

Well, thank you so much for coming on. It has been a joy to dig into Old Hollywood with you, talk about how you style people, and how you can bring that kind of star image energy into the modern-day world. So, thank you again for coming on.

April Clemmer: Thank you for having me. This was such a fun conversation.

Gabrielle: I know I can't wait to dig into your Audrey Hepburn masterclass. Okay, guys, until next time.