Style Files: Lillian, The Artist vs. The Accountant

In this episode of Style POV’s Style Files series, I sit down with Lillian to talk about her journey from postpartum style confusion to a sense of grounded clarity. Previously, she was deep in online advice, surface-level color analysis, and style systems that promised answers but often created more noise. We talk about growing up, the impact of COVID, her first virtual analysis, and what it felt like to move through multiple systems while searching for harmony, formulas, and something that actually felt right.

Lillian shares how stepping back from social media, questioning rigid rules, and listening to her intuition changed everything. We dig into playful elegance as a personal style statement, building capsule wardrobes that truly work, and the moment when rules and intuition finally aligned. This conversation is honest, thoughtful, and deeply relatable for anyone who has felt torn between structure and creativity in their style.

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Transcript

Transcript

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Gabrielle: [00:00:00] Today we have an episode of the Style Files, which is a mini series within this podcast where I sit down with real people to talk about the evolution of their personal style. It's not about perfectional formulas, but what style systems worked, how they got to the answers, and what's feeling good about their style right now.

Today's guest is Lillian, a woman who's learned to balance both the accountant and the creative artist within her. A year ago, she was postpartum and deep in the world of style, confusion, chasing feedback instead of trusting her own instincts. Now she's found her footing in playful elegance and a style system that really helped everything unlock.

We'll talk about how she built capsule wardrobes that actually work. What helped her quiet, the noise of online style advice, which we all suffer from, and how she's learning to respect both sides of herself, the one that plans and the one that plays.

So let's get into it.

Hi, Lillian welcome to Style Files. I'm so excited to chat with you all about your personal style journey. So let's start at the beginning. When did you feel like compelled to develop an authentic personal style?

Lillian: I've kind of always [00:01:00] been interested in style. It was something I loved when I was a teenager.

I grew up in an artistic family, and so it was just kind of an extension of that but you know, as you get older, I went away to college and stuff, couldn't afford to go shopping as much, and style became more just, practical and functional. I really started thinking more about it and trying to develop a personal style probably around like 2020. I feel like there was kind of an emergence of style systems and stuff probably from COVID just on social media. Color analysis resurfaced and the body types and all kinds of systems. And so I think I tapped into that a little bit and that kind of spurred me forward.

I also got pregnant with my first kid at that time, and so I had a lot of downtime. That probably helped.

Starting the Journey with Seasonal Color Analysis

Gabrielle: I know, I think everyone found those systems and everything during COVID. Because we were all like bored in the house and wearing sweatpants and we're like, this is the time. If there was ever a time to deep dive into these nuanced systems, now is it. So what system did you first [00:02:00] start with and kind of what intrigued you to start there?

Lillian: Color analysis is what I found first. So seasonal color analysis. My mom is an artist and my dad is an accountant and I kind of have both of that competing in my brain all the time.

And so I studied art in school. I did art all growing up, stuff like that. And when I found color analysis, it just made my brain light up because it was my artistic side and then also the accountant side that loved the systems and the science behind the art and formulas and rules and stuff like that. And so my brain really latched onto that and I kind of went a little bit crazy.

Gabrielle: I think that is a very deep rabbit hole, to go down. now talk about a little bit like, were you wearing a lot of color before? Had you always been like a neutral black, gray, tan person or was that like artistic color enthusiasm always there?

Lillian: I think before that, well, like I said, like, through college and early adulthood, I kind of just wore whatever was functional. I adopted a lot of hand-me-downs, and so it was kind of just whatever I [00:03:00] got. I know that growing up, you know, all our moms and grandmas, they all know, a little bit about color analysis Yes when it was first popular.

I'd been told a lot that I was cool toned and you know, my hair was mousy and so I think I tried to stick with cooler, more muted colors.

Gabrielle: I relate.

Lillian: Yes. I know I wore a lot of gray, but I kind of just wore whatever came into my wardrobe. I hadn't really thought about style in a long time.

I don't actually think I ever wore a lot of color. I guess I've always kind of gravitated towards mostly neutrals just because they go with a lot except for bright red. I've always loved red. So that was the one color that I always kept in my wardrobe.

Gabrielle: Okay. So you're deep diving into color analysis. What's your process? Are you just consuming all of the Internet's opinions? Are you going to get analysis done? Are you joining Facebook groups? What's the process there and how are you feeling about it? Because it can be a, like people have strong feelings about color analysis.

Lillian: Oh Yes. And I was definitely one of those people [00:04:00] for a while and I still do have strong feelings about it. But

Gabrielle: Share them. Share them.

Lillian: I think when I first started getting into it, it was kind of just whatever, just everything I could get. I was consuming lots of YouTube videos, lots of stuff on Instagram. Lots of articles on the internet. I feel like when you first get into color analysis, you hear a lot about, you know, the vein test and the metal test and the, if you have this color hair, this color, eyes, then you're this season kind of thing.

I think the surface level color analysis can be very surface level.

Gabrielle: Yes. It's very prescriptive.

Lillian: Exactly.

Gabrielle: And it is really easy, I think, to have your biases come into play too. Like you mentioned you felt like you had mousey hair. Like I also felt like that, and it's only now after color analysis that I've gone with my natural hair and I'm like, this is not mousy.

Like we just have these kind of like scripts in our head, or like my eyes were muddy or whatever the case may be. So it's really hard to separate those out and be like, no, this is actually golden hair, or this is actually this. [00:05:00] So were you hitting those walls at all or were you just feeling boxed in?

Lillian: I was definitely hitting those walls. Like you said, everything that has been told to us over the years or that we had told ourselves, it's so hard to analyze yourself I think for that reason. All those previous ideas that we have in our head definitely get in the way when we try to analyze ourselves. And so, I'd always been told my, pink skin meant I was cool toned and, like I mentioned the mousey hair.

Then I found Carol Brailey on Instagram. That's when I first learned about draping. She does mostly virtual draping on her Instagram, but she does in-person stuff too.

Gabrielle: She's talked about spending many years doing in-person before she ever considered, from what I understand, doing virtual. And I think that's like a really important kind of caveat to the process.

Because she had that, she's had so many decades where she's had hands on and she's like, I know what I'm looking for, you know? Yes. She's become an expert.

Lillian: Yes. And she was one of the few people that I found out there that had been doing it for a really long time and went in depth about her process and, you know, showed before and afters and stuff like [00:06:00] that. And I really ate up her content.

Then for my birthday I decided to get virtually analyzed by her and I told myself,

Gabrielle: Wait, I have a question though. Before you got analyzed. What did you think you were?

Lillian: So I initially thought I was a summer, just like, you know, from back in the day when there were only four seasons.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: Then I started diving in, I was like, oh, I must be a Soft Summer. And then at one point I was like, wait, maybe I'm warm toned. So I thought it was Soft Autumn for a while. And then I think somewhere in there I went back to summer. That was kind of where I was at when I was waiting for my analysis from her.

I told myself the only season I didn't think I was, I was like, I guess I could be any of the seasons, like I wouldn't be surprised except for Spring. That was the one I was like, I'm sure I'm not a spring.

Gabrielle: I feel you on that. I also was like, I thought I was a summer and I was like, there's just no way I am a spring. So continue. I have a feeling I know where this might be going.

Lillian: It always happens this way. But yes, I got my results back and I was [00:07:00] a True Spring.

Gabrielle: Okay.

Lillian: I was very surprised, obviously when it first came back. But then I started looking back through outfit photos because I think by that point I had found your channel and was taking outfit, photos, and I was looking back and I was like, oh yes, I guess, you know, these muted colors don't look so great on me.

Especially after watching her content and seeing, you know, when you wear the right colors, you light up your skin, your hair, your eyes, everything lights up. I think I had previously thought you're trying to match your coloring.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: Which isn't always the case because we're all made up of earthy tones. That's nature.

Gabrielle: Yes. People really think you want to like, blend into the colors. that's like the opposite. That's like a melting effect that makes you just kind of bleed into the color and have no definition. We actually want like the opposite. We want it like lifted and supported and very vibrant.

So what was your first reaction? You're like, I'm a True Spring. I trust Carol. Like she's got this history, this very strong education and experience level. What were you thinking though? Were you terrified? excited?

Lillian: [00:08:00] I'm sure I was stunned for a bit. And I was like, I think I had never really tried brighter colors either. I had just kind of stuck with, you know, more muted colors, cooler colors. I think there was a part of me that didn't ever want to stand out, and so that's why I didn't ever gravitate towards the bright colors.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: But once I started trying them, it was so obvious that they were so much better on me than, the grays. Gray is my worst color.

Gabrielle: I know. Me too.

Lillian: I knew that.

Gabrielle: When I looked back. Yes.

Lillian: I knew that before I got my analysis and I just couldn't figure out why. I'm like, this is supposed to work, but it's not.

Gabrielle: I had that same thought. And I remember all the heather tones. I'd try heather tones and I'd be like, why does this look so bad on me? Like, this is supposed to be a good color. So you got this True Spring analysis, maybe you're playing around with it. Are you exploring other systems as well? What's happening? What's happening next?

Lillian: Yes. I think once you get into one of the systems, it's kind of a springboard into all the others.

Gabrielle: Yes. Because you see the power of [00:09:00] it too. And just like, Hey, there's a world where form and function, creativity and logistics can all kind of come into one, which is exciting, especially given your background as you mentioned.

Lillian: Right. And it's so cool to see that. I feel like it's a tangible way to see how there are so many different kinds of beauty out there. And how you can work with your own features and your own beauty to really capture that in yourself rather than just trying to look like everyone else. So I really liked that.

I think the next system I found was probably Kibbe.

Gabrielle: Okay.

Lillian: I never went too deep into Kibbe. I've kind of just dabbled in it throughout my journey. I've kind of always intuitively known the types of silhouettes that work well on me. I think that's the artist in me that just, you know, can notice, okay, this isn't working so we'll.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: You know, we'll get rid of that. And so I remember taking a couple quizzes and always coming back with theatrical, romantic. And I know that's really common for people to find that one initially. So I didn't.

Gabrielle: But it has to apply to some people, right? Some people do get it right.

Lillian: Yes.

Gabrielle: [00:10:00] Why do you think you weren't drawn to the system? Was it just kind of, you already saw things like that? Because as artists, I think we have an intuitive eye for color and proportion and some element of form and how it relates to the form it's building on and under. Did it help at all? Did you relate to the theatrical, romantic recommendations or was it just kind of like, oh, this is interesting, let me move on to the next?

Lillian: I think that it just didn't really do anything for me. I kind of already had, you know, that style information in the back of my head. I did kind of pocket it for, you know, later reference. I used it in mood boards sometimes. I feel like he had like specific archetypes or styles for each body type at the time.

I don't think he does anymore, but I'm not sure..

Gabrielle: Yes, it was, femme fatale, right? Yes. Was a theatrical romantic. And, he does still have them, but I'm blanking right now on what the new theatrical romantic is. So we'll move past that.

Lillian: Yes. So I know that didn't particularly resonate with me, and there were some things about the recommendations that I was like, eh, that's not quite right for me. And so I just kind of [00:11:00] kept it in the back of my head, but I didn't need it and I didn't notice as much of a difference when I tried to apply it. It was kind of more confusing than helpful, I think.

Gabrielle: Okay.

Lillian: And so I just kind of, you know, put it on the back burner and moved on.

Delving Next in the Kibbe System

Gabrielle: Okay. So what did you move on to and at this point, how involved are you in the style community? Because what I noticed is after 2020 when everyone started getting into these, everyone tried to find, you know, you couldn't go to your partner or your best friend and be like, have you heard about, especially back in 2020, people would be like, no, I've never heard of Kibbe, what are you talking about? We had to find these like-minded people and we had to join the groups or find the Reddit forums or you know, kind of find like-minded people in this process to share all the little wins with.

Lillian: Oh yes, for sure. So I have a close friend. She is in your group also. Her name is Shanna. I started talking with her. We actually barely knew each other at the time. Our husbands are friends and so we had met like at my wedding reception and I think we had had dinner together once and we just connected over Facebook [00:12:00] and we just happened to both be into it at the same time.

Gabrielle: That's awesome.

Lillian: We started talking, she's one of my like greatest friends now and so we definitely bonded over style over the years. And so I started talking to her and I know I joined a color analysis group, which I left shortly after because it was just driving me crazy.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: Some of the Facebook groups can get, well, I guess this is where my strong opinions kind of got in the way of like, you know, seeing people being so passionate about thinking they were a certain season when, to me it was obvious that they weren't.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: Was really hard to watch and I would put my input in. And sometimes they'd argue with me. And so I'm like, I can't sit here and watch. And so I had to back out.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: And I was looking at…

Gabrielle: Those groups get combative too. People feel very strongly and there's I think a certain like identity that becomes tied to it. They're like, I'm a Soft Summer, I'm a ethereal, I'm this. And you're like, okay.

Lillian: Yes.

Gabrielle: [00:13:00] Stepping back now.

Lillian: Yes. And I was also taking a color analysis course at the time through the International Image Institute.

Gabrielle: Oh, okay. Yes.

Lillian: And so I felt even more passionately about it. And so I was like, you know what? I don't want to argue with people, so I'm going to back out of this. But I also joined, I can't remember if that's when I joined your group or if I joined that a little later on. I know I joined the Truth is Beauty Essence group. Because that's when I started getting more into essences and I think I floated around there for a while and joined your group as well.

And like some groups I love, like I love your group. There are a lot of wonderful women in there, all supporting each other and I love that so much because like you said, it's hard to, I mean, I talk my husband's ear off about all this stuff, but he doesn't get it. He doesn't care as much as I do and so it's fun having a group of like-minded people where you can geek out together about your epiphanies and the things you've learned and stuff.

Gabrielle: Yes. You know, you're in deep when your partners and best friends are like, so is that a Bright Spring blue? And you're like, yes it is. Thank you for remembering.[00:14:00]

You're like, I love the chroma level. So, you know, you're like, wow, I've talked a lot about this now. So you've joined the groups. You're feeling a sense of community. Kibbe wasn't right for you. Is there an a system that you started with next or a process or framework that started to help with your journey?

Lillian: I did dive into Essences next. I think that was around when my first kid was born. I had heard, I think when I was initially looking into Kibbe and color analysis, I had heard about Essences. But my initial thought was just that like, their kind of the impression you give off.

And so, if you give off a sweet impression, you have Ingenue. If you look intense or if you could play a villain in a movie, you have dramatic stuff like that. And so, again, very surface level. and then, you know, I started getting deeper into it. I was in the Truth is Beauty group, but I mostly, it's interesting because there are a lot of essence systems out there that are very, very similar, but they all kind of tweak it a little bit.

Gabrielle: Yes. I actually think they're very different in a lot of ways, like how we define a [00:15:00] word becomes such a nuanced experience. You know, ethereal to one system can mean something completely different to another. It could mean other worldly and goddess, like in one, or it could be maybe strange, offbeat and alien-ish in another, unbalanced in another or celestial.

It's like all these little words that we have floating around the same feeling, but how we visually interpret them is really different. And I think that speaks to kind of like that overall impression, like what actress would play this role.

Well, lots of actresses can play this role, and that's their actresses. So they're changing their mannerisms. They're changing their facial expressions, they're changing what's on top of them to imbue what we're circling around with that word or with that essence category. so I totally agree.

Lillian: Yes. I think it causes a lot of confusion sometimes because Kitchener's kind of the name everyone knows as far as essences go. But there are several [00:16:00] different kinds of systems.

Gabrielle: Variations.

Lillian: Yes, exactly.

Gabrielle: Evolutions. And so artist interpretations, whatever you want to call it.

Lillian: Right. So I was hanging out in the Truth is Beauty Group, but I mostly resonate with Kitchener's Essences. Okay. And so I found kind of some disconnect there where I wasn't always agreeing with everything that was being said there. and I think that's probably around the time I found your group.

When I first found Essences, just like on YouTube, I think I saw one of Ellie Jean's videos or something, and I just kind of offhand was like, okay, I'm probably Classic and Ingenue just based off of what I know my impression is that I give off to other people. And then I joined Truth Is Beauty and started getting ethereal all the time. That was like the main essence that was suggested. And I was like, oh, okay. that's when I really started deep diving. I think I landed on ethereal Gamine and Classic for quite a while.

But then I really started getting bogged down. You know, the accountant and the artist in my brain. They battle quite a bit. I think the [00:17:00] accountant side kind of took over and was like, formulas. We love it. You know, rules, structure. And so really clung on to essences, and I can wear this, I can't wear this, just trying to figure out what worked and what didn't. And then the artist in me could see this is not harmony. This is harmony.

There was just like this kind of tug of war in my head of part of me trying to find the rules that worked and the other part of me saying, this isn't working, this is working.

Gabrielle: Was it easy or difficult for you to identify essences within clothes? Because I also think that's a big, pitfall for people that sometimes we're like, this is for sure ethereal. And you're like, actually no, that's like Classic romantic. You know? And we had these interpretations that maybe aren't true to life, so sometimes we might even get the wrong name, but the pieces that we're actually applying have some validity.

It sounds like even if maybe this wasn't the blend you finalized on, or have, confirmed to be, you were hitting on some notes and then others were a little [00:18:00] flat.

Lillian: Yes. I think that's a huge part of it. cause I think, you know, the artist in me could intuitively see these pieces are working and so it felt like it confirmed some things. Like I remember I never felt like collared shirts worked on me. Like the collar just felt too sharp by my face. That always confused me because I thought I had Gamine and Classic and so I was like, why is this not working?

Yes and especially, being in this truth is beauty group, but trying to mostly follow Kitchener. There was a lot of, there's a huge difference between, you know, clothing recommendations for each one. There was a lot of confusion going on at that time and

Gabrielle: Yes, I ended up, I also think the priorities on how they determine essences are very different too.

Lillian: And the process.

Gabrielle: I think, yes, Rachel's very much more intuitive and just kind of sits in, thinks and plays kind of paper doll style. And from what Kitchener seems like he does is he seems to have a very strict amount of like this plus this equals this, your eyes are this, your mannerism are this, this is this. They very pinpoint all those elements together.

Lillian: Definitely. Yes. I think [00:19:00] at that point I had to take a step back from social media because it was just clogging my brain too much. Those groups are great unless you let them become your thoughts, when everyone else's input replaces your own intuition, your own thoughts and stuff like that.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: I was just relying too much on what everyone else was saying and what I was seeing on Pinterest and stuff like that. So I had to step back for a while and kind of try to tune back into my intuition. And who I was. Cause like you said earlier.

Gabrielle: How did you do that though? That's hard.

Lillian: Yes. So I have ADHD and so I hyper fixate. And I find myself frequently having to take breaks from social media. Because I just get so distracted. I just delete the apps from my phone for a while.

Gabrielle: That's smart. Good for you. I think we could all use a social media break, you know?

Lillian: Yes, that was during summer of like 2024, I think. I was like, I'm got to, you know, kind of just step into my intuition. I had created a style statement by then. It was playful elegance.

I really paired down my clothes because I had [00:20:00] so many different, styles in my wardrobe. Some of them, my legs, some of I didn't, just from testing things and playing with things, my wardrobe was just like full of chaos and confusion. And so I only kept all the things that I loved and put everything else away. I just put it in a box, at the back in my closet and I focused on my style statement and roughly on my style roots which were mushroom, flour and sun.

Gabrielle: Okay.

Lillian: I just kind of rolled with that, just like this playful elegance. Just kind of going with what felt right, what felt like me and I just focused on that for the summer and that, that was like the happiest I ever was with my style. I was like, you know what? I have researched this to death. I'm just got to take the information that I've gathered and start using it instead of thinking about it more because that's all I was doing is just like running it through my brain over and over and over and over again.

Gabrielle: The accountant had to balance the books and things were needed to just have a little bit of time to do that.

Lillian: Yes. So I was very happy with my style at that time. I felt really good. [00:21:00] And then fall rolled around and I had to create a fall wardrobe. And things stopped working.

Gabrielle: Okay. Talk about that. Fall, it, can be hard to transition once you get one kind of formula or framework working. It's sometimes hard to say, I've been living in short dresses and now I can't wear short dresses. Tights aren't feeling right. Like, how do I switch this? What's going on there?

Lillian: And I think, part of it was just, I wasn't sure. It was like my intuition and the rules weren't lining up. And so my intuition was saying one thing and the rules were saying another thing. I'm honestly not entirely sure what derailed everything.

Actually now I think about it. I may have started getting back into social media again. And going back to Essences and I think I started exploring dramatic for a minute or something like that. But yes, something really bogged me down. And that's, when you had Andrea on your podcast.

I heard that episode and someone had posted on the group that she was doing analyses for people. And so that's when I booked with her and then I [00:22:00] think it was just before, winter that I got my analysis back from her.

Gabrielle: Okay.

Lillian: I had been mostly still playing with Classic, Gamine and Ethereal.

Gabrielle: Okay.

Lillian: And then she gave me Ethereal and Romantic as like 50% of my blend.

Gabrielle: Okay. So pretty heavy.

Lillian: I think I had like 15 each of natural Gamine and Ingenue and then like five Classic. Yes. Which really surprised me. Because I thought Classic, Classic was the one I knew from the beginning. That kind of totally flipped my style journey upside down.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: I've never really gravitated towards romantic stuff, especially when you do romantic and ethereal together. It's very soft, it's very fantasy kind of feeling.

Gabrielle: Yes. It's like the goddess meets the celestial fantasy being. I can understand why you were like, maybe this is a big switch.

Lillian: Yes. So I played around with that for quite a while. I tried so hard to adopt it into my style. I'm addicted to making mood boards, so I made so many mood boards. I [00:23:00] made outfit formulas and capsule wardrobes to capture all the elements of the essences in my wardrobe, just to somehow translate it into my style. I could make beautiful mood boards of what the style would look like, but actually translating it into my style was really, really hard.

Gabrielle: Like, what's the Venn diagram? Where do these two things overlap? And you're making mood boards and you're like, maybe this one making another one. Maybe this one, maybe this one. And are you getting some wins? How are you feeling about it? Or no?

Lillian: There were some things that I definitely had wins in there. There were some times where I would, you know, try to incorporate one of the essences and be like, oh, I see how this is working.

Like, I remember, intentionally incorporating some natural into outfit and be like, oh, this is what this outfit was missing. Or I left out romantic for a while because it's not one that was coming to me intuitively. I don't do ruffles and really feminine stuff generally.

I kind of just stopped adding it for a while and then when I did, I think I wore like a romantic necklace or something like that, I was like, oh, [00:24:00] this kind of brings the outfit together, like this is working. And so I did have some wins in there. I was like, oh, maybe I do like this. Maybe I do need this.

Gabrielle: From what I've gathered, and maybe this is just my interpretation, I feel like romantic is one of the more flexible essences that can mirror back another essence really easily. When you combine romantic with, ethereal or angelic, it becomes this kind of celestial floating princess vibe, but it doesn't feel like romantic in the words we equate with, like sexy or feminine or glam.

When you it with natural, it can become very like boho goddess or you know, kind of have this beautiful feminine quality that adapts to the mold that it's in. So I think in some ways we misinterpret romantic essence a lot or we confine it to mean you are a femme fatale and that's it. You know, so like eyeliner and big earrings are your jam.

Understanding Style Rules but Fighting Intuition

Lillian: I think we do that with a lot of the essences. As I kept trying to study and explore the essences [00:25:00] to try and make my blend work for my style, I realized and learned just how much, you know, the percentages play with each other and the essences themselves affect one another when they're in someone's blend. I think I struggled a lot because I felt like I was fighting my intuition.

Gabrielle: Okay.

Lillian: I was trying to make this style work for me. And I knew that that could be a possibility because your face doesn't always match your personality and what you want to wear and stuff like that. And so I was like, if I have to figure out how to blend my essences, my face, how I look with what I like, what I do intuitively, stuff like that.

Gabrielle: So wait, talk a little bit about that. Like how did you feel like there was a disconnect? Because I think that's really important to pay attention to. How are you perceived out in the real world? I don't think we should even count Facebook groups to a big degree.

Lillian: Yes.

Gabrielle: Or the internet culture in general. Because if you asked my friends or my partner or any of the people in my life, my son, what I'm like, versus how the internet perceives me, they're like wildly different, wildly different. So, oh yes. How were you talking about that [00:26:00] disconnect? What was feeling right for you on how you're perceived?

Lillian: I've always been really drawn to Classic styles, Parisian styles. I love Parisian style and I've always kind of felt like a Gamine at heart. This romantic ethereal persona that I was trying to understand just like didn't feel like me.

I was trying so hard to formulate it and rearrange it and look at it in a way where I could then copy and paste into my style. that's also around the time that I found out that I had ADHD. And so I was like, oh, you know, I sit down in the morning and look at my wardrobe trying to get dressed and I get overwhelmed.

That must be because the ADHD, you know, there's too much in my wardrobe or it's just too overstimulating, too overwhelming. That's when I really kind of started getting into trying to create formulas and mood boards and stuff like that. I was letting the accountant kind of step in more to create a framework.

Gabrielle: We need some structure here. We need to understand what we need and what we [00:27:00] don't need. And I don't know about you, but I know a lot of people along their style journeys when they're trying all these things, they do tend to go through little shopping sprees too, so their wardrobe can like kind of grow and grow and grow to the point you look at it and you're like, wow, that was like six, six months ago I thought I was this. And that's this whole little era in my closet is my a mean phase or whatever it may be.

Lillian: Yes. I think there was also a part of me though, this was probably the artist in me, you know? I would put on like a romantic Ingenue top and to me, my yang just like popped out.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: But according to my essence blend, I was mostly yin.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: And so I was like, I have pretty prominent cheekbones. I have.

Gabrielle: Yes. Like I saw you have a lot of angles to your face.

Lillian: Yes. And so I was like this system is supposed to incorporate those things and enhance their beauty rather than making them stand out in a way that felt kind of disconnected.

We noticed this with color analysis, how, you know, the wrong colors can make you look disconnected from your clothes.

Gabrielle: [00:28:00] Floating head.

Lillian: Exactly. And so I was seeing that a lot, again, , you know, the artist was like, why is this not working? And the accountant was like, let's make this work.

Gabrielle: This is the answer.

Lillian: Yes.

Gabrielle: So you were trying to systematize things, trying to get the wardrobe in order. You've had some wins, but this blend just wasn't kind of evolving to the comfort level that you expected it to be. How are you feeling about your style in that moment? Was it improving with the frameworks and the capsule wardrobes? What came next? Who led the charge? Was it the accountant or the creative?

Lillian: I think eventually the creative got tired of it. Just kind of the accountant got burned out trying to control everything, and the artist came in and was like, you know what? We're done.

It was summertime. And I was like, I just want to lean into the vibes of summer. I want to wear fun clothes. I want to dress how I want. So I tapped into that for a while. A couple years ago, my friend Shanna and I, we did a little exercise where we picked apart our personality into personality [00:29:00] characters.

Because we're not, I don't know, like a lot of systems that have archetypes. It's like, you're this archetype or this you know, character. But I've always felt like there are different characters that make up my personality.

Gabrielle: Like, I could be the maverick and the girl next door, right? I could be, you know, like I'm a multitude of things.

Lillian: Yes. And so one of my personalities is the rock star.

Gabrielle: Okay.

Lillian: It's the one that wants to go on adventures, go to music festivals, wanted to play the electric guitar, wants to wear glitter, and, combat stuff.

Gabrielle: I love all of those things. Yes. Okay.

Lillian: So I kind of started tapping into that a little bit during the summer and that's also when I got pregnant with my second kid okay who I'm currently pregnant with now.

Gabrielle: Congrats!

Lillian: Thank you. That makes style a whole different adventure.

Gabrielle: Yes. It's like the time you want to feel your best, you know, and you want to glow and you want clothes to be easy, and then your body's just like, no, we're got to change completely tomorrow. So good luck.

Lillian: Yes. That was fun and [00:30:00] interesting.

Gabrielle: Well, it seems like you picked apart a lot of good points along the way and you pulled out some things. And here's the beauty, I think about learning about these things or even just like a surface level exploration is it just helps you see things in a new light.

And it just helps you decide like, yes, that's for me, or no, that's for me, or this one element within this is for me. Like I may not use my True Spring palette all the time, but if I'm going to an event where I really want to shine, maybe I'm got to pull that beautiful, daffodil yellow dress out of my closet or whatever the case may be.

Or you think, you know what, I know that's for me, but I'm choosing to go this route. So, what did you feel like was the biggest takeaway from all this learning? Was it just the process? Did you feel like you understood that style could be personalized again, that expression can come through clothes, or where was your thought process?

Lillian: I learned from all that that even if you find all the things that [00:31:00] look best on you, you have to take into account your own brain.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: Cause I, felt like I was fighting my brain a lot of the time, and I think that's actually when I discovered Rita's system, well, maybe not discovered it, but looked deeper into it.

Because that's kind of what she focuses on, is, you know, working with your brain and how you intuitively get dressed and stuff like that. Because the way people think about style, the way they get dressed, their lifestyle needs is different. And if you don't accommodate that, then you're never got to wear the things that look best on you if you can't find a way to include it into your life and into your wardrobe.

Gabrielle: And two people could have the exact same style data and be completely different goals or expressions. I mean, that's kind of why I wanted to create the podcast is like a style POV. What is your point of view and how do you develop that using all the tools or none of the tools, whatever your choice may be, how do you tap into to how you view it?

Lillian: It's kind of all just information until you figure out how to apply it. And you got to understand your brain and how you do things to know how to apply [00:32:00] it.

Gabrielle: And that the stylist who gives you that blend or the color analysis person, they don't necessarily see your inner life, your inner goals, your desires. We all do our best to facilitate that.

And that's why some stylists have a better connection with a client than others because they tap into that a little bit better. But sometimes it's just about saying like, no, this is what I want. This is me. I'm got to take this information and use it with my own thoughts in mind. It's my style expression. Okay. So I don't think you're done with your style story yet, though.

Lillian: I'm not.

Gabrielle: You're at Rita's system. You related to the way that she talks about how the brain works and kind of your motivations behind style. I love her system for that. I think it's such a smart and creative approach to problem solving.

Lillian: I think that it is a style tool that everyone should have in their tool belt because it is so different from all the other systems and tools. Yes. It fills a niche that is needed that is not filled by other systems.

Gabrielle: I agree.

Lillian: Without it, we tend to just rely purely on the rules and we are [00:33:00] told that we should wear.

Gabrielle: And then we feel boxed in.

Lillian: Yes.

Gabrielle: She unboxes people I think in a lot of ways.

Lillian: Yes, I agree. I think I knew from the beginning that I was a moonstone, but I fought it a lot.

Gabrielle: Do you want to describe what that means? Oh yes. For people who might not be familiar.

Lillian: So Moonstone is one of the quadrants in her system, and it essentially means that the way you get dressed is you get inspiration from your surroundings, whether that's where you're going or maybe a show you're into at the time or an art piece that you really love.

Your inspiration comes from the outside world. A lot of it has to do with supporting yourself and making yourself feel comfortable. That's kind of the other part of it. That's the down element of it. So I knew that I fought it a lot because I really wanted to be the person that captured, you know, style was for capturing who you are and communicating who you are. Cause I felt like I was a shy kid. I am kind of more quiet, but my internal world is very loud, very creative, very interesting.

And so I wanted to be able to communicate that through my style. And so I wanted so badly [00:34:00] to be kind of that side of her system. That, you know, is all about your style is communicating who you are. I really liked her system. It's kind of hard sometimes to figure out where you are in her system.

There's a lot of self-discovery involved. And so I've kind of explored it here and there throughout my style journey as I've discovered new things about myself. I got to a point where she has an archetype within the Moonstone key. I think it's the explorer that says, you know, you're the kind of person you need a solid base in your style with room to explore. I was like, that sounds like me.

Gabrielle: Yes. So that's really sounds spot on so far.

Lillian: Yes. And so that really helped me. I was like, okay, I just got to create my base and then, have little ways that I can explore. I think that's when I started putting together my, style board.

Because again, the ADHD made it hard for me to keep track of all my style information. I had notes in my phone that were miles long and note was full of style information and so I wanted to see it all in one place. And so on Milanote, I just kind of created this board [00:35:00] of all my style information. I had my style statement, my colors, my most recent mood boards, and things that were important to me on there. So I could just see it at a glance.

Setting Your Style Framework

Gabrielle: It's kind of your toolbox or your framework, whatever you want to call it. It is like your dictionary. And also kind of what I liked about it is how you interpreted and personalized it.

It wasn't just, okay, so this is how I'm taking it. Like one is one, this is what I think of this, and here's how I interpret what this means for my style. it was very reflective and succinct, which I think is really important. Because again, you can have all the notes in the world, but if you can't reference them easily or you're trying to dig through your notes, that being like, what was that thing about Bell Sleeves that I liked?

You know? It doesn't really function for you when you're looking at your closet and you're like, what do I wear today?

Lillian: Yes. Well, thank you. Instead of putting, you know, all the different systems and where I fit in them, I had a box that I called accommodations of like, just things that I knew I needed to accommodate in my style.

Just like the most important rules to follow, essentially. Yes. So I didn't get [00:36:00] bogged down by the rules. And so I had, like, I know I needed my clothing to be narrow and fitted and I knew that, I needed some femininity in there and, you know, I had these accommodations in there. That kind of made it easier to digest rather than a list of rules.

It, you know, I had five things that I could reference and be like, okay, does this top I'm trying on fit these accommodations?

Gabrielle: Okay. So what's next? Moonstones feeling good. There's some elements really happening. Where is your style journey today?

Lillian: So shortly after that, my friend Shanna and I looked into getting analyzed in person by one of the people that Kitchener had trained.

Because he has a few people that he is trained throughout the US and we noticed there was one near us. And so I reached out to him. I was like, how do I get in contact with this person? And he was like, unfortunately, she's not doing it anymore. And I was like, ah, darn. Okay. But I saw that he was having kind of a sale on his basic essence package and there were still things that just weren't lining up with the blend that Andrea had given me. It [00:37:00] just like wasn't feeling quite right.

Gabrielle: It's important to listen to that too, I think. Like you really have to pay attention to this is how someone saw me, but I'm not seeing the through line. So you're collecting more info.

Lillian: Yes. I'm not seeing myself the same way that she saw me. And I think it's important to.

Gabrielle: Listen.

Lillian: Yes. And to feel like you are seeing what they are seeing. Otherwise you're dressing for someone else rather than yourself.

Gabrielle: Yes. talk about the Kitchener experience.

Lillian: Yes. So I am like eight months pregnant, waiting for my Kitchener analysis. I was like, cannot buy any clothes, just working with what I have trying to get through this pregnancy. I can buy clothes once I have my analysis and I've had the baby and my body's not changing so much anymore.

Gabrielle: Is yourADHD brain n struggling with that, patient creative mindset zen side?

Lillian: Oh yes. So Shanna also booked an analysis with him and we were just going back and forth every day over analyzing ourselves to death. Yes. What is he got to give us? I also found the Kitchener Reddit at the time, and so that's a whole new world of information and we would come [00:38:00] back. But we knew for sure that Shanna probably had romantic and Ingenue, and she'd come back and be like, maybe I don't have Ingenue. And I'm like, girl. There's no way you don't have Ingenue. And so we were just like questioning everything we knew.

Yes, and then I got an email saying that he could do it early, and of course I lost my mind. Because I was supposed to get my results like a week before the baby was due and he emailed me a month early and was like, Hey, I can do it sooner and I got my results on my way to a doctor's appointment. Oh. And of course, I, told Shannon I was got to call her when I got it. I was like, I have to wait till after my doctor's appointment. And so, you know, doctor's appointments take 10 years.

You're sitting in the waiting room forever. I had the email in my phone with the results. It was like the end all be all, like, no one's got to give me better than him, essentially.

Gabrielle: Yes.

Lillian: So I opened my results. Later on with Shanna.

Gabrielle: Oh, okay. You waited that whole time.

Lillian: I did wait.

Gabrielle: Oh wow. You are a very good friend. I would be like, I'm sorry, [00:39:00] Shana, but I need to know.

Lillian: Actually, my husband read it to me. He was like, how funny would it be if I opened the email and read it to you so you couldn't look at it? I was like, fine.

Gabrielle: Rip the bandaid off. Let's go.

Lillian: Yes. So he started reading it. Well, actually, so the email came in in like three emails, and two of them were like, give me recommendation or high spirited recommendations and on Ingenue or youthful recommendations.

It was like, so I know I have those two.

Gabrielle: Oh, oh yes.

Lillian: But then in the, it gave like a little preview of the email, it was like with only 10%. So I, you know, was sitting in the doctor's office knowing, okay, I have 10% youthful and 10% high spirited. What the heck is the rest of it?

Gabrielle: I know that's only 20%. There's still a big chunk missing.

Lillian: Right. It was driving me crazy. So he started at the bottom. Sorry. You're got to hear the whole breakdown of the experience because it is ingrained in my brain.

Gabrielle: Okay, I'm ready.

Lillian: So he started reading it from the bottom up and it was, you know, [00:40:00] 10% youthful, 10% high spirited, 10% dramatic.

Gabrielle: Okay.

Lillian: And then 20% natural, 25% romantic, and 25% Classic.

Gabrielle: Wow. No ethereal.

Lillian: Right. The first thing that like stopped us in our tracks were like, wait, dramatic. Because that was like the one I had ruled out. Of course. Like the spring color analysis. I was like, there's no way I have dramatic, like no one would look at me and say that I look dramatic.

Gabrielle: But 10% is like accessory touch. It's like a touch of the rocker that you talked about a little bit. Like maybe you're wearing combat boots or maybe you're wearing something like a little bit edgy, but you know, you're not going like, full share at this moment.

Lillian: Right, exactly. And that's why I mentioned, you know, percentages have so much to do with how it shows up In someone and And then the other thing was no ethereal. I was like, no, ethereal. When he read it off I was like, wait, that's it. He's like, that's it, like, no ethereal?

Gabrielle: Okay, so romantic and Classic. Those are the two top ones.

Lillian: [00:41:00] Romantic and Classic were 25 and then natural was 20, so they're very close. So yes, mostly romantic  and Classic, natural with, you know, a little bit of the Ingenue, Gamine and dramatic at the end.

Gabrielle: Wow. Okay. So how is that feeling right now? Because that feels like, from what you've explained, very close to how you see yourself, kind of the balance of the accountant and the creative and what I've seen of your journey in the Facebook group as well.

Lillian: Yes, I know initially I was definitely in shock. And I had a little bit of an identity crisis. Okay. Because I had claimed ethereal as one of my top essences for so long. Is like we talked about. It had become kind of part of my personality. I felt like, my style was ethereal.

Yes, exactly. and then the dramatic as well, it just, like, it definitely took me some time. But as I digested it, I was like, and it was funny because before I got my results when we were talking about it, I was like. You know, I think the only thing that would disappoint me is if I got a [00:42:00] bunch of tiny percentages and didn't have like a top three or, or anything like that.

Gabrielle: Yes. It's harder to address for that for sure.

Lillian: In some ways I did get a bunch of small percentages. I didn't get anything over 25. Because I was worried that I wouldn't get enough direction from my results from him that it wouldn't answer any questions or anything. It'd just be like, you can wear whatever you want.

Gabrielle: Yes. And you're like, how do I mix 10% of all of these things together in one outfit? Right. Without it feeling hodgepodge, like an ethereal earring, a Gamine top, a dramatic skirt. It can feel hard to see the blends in their fully formed clothing, garments, you know?

Lillian: Yes. Like the whole picture.

Gabrielle: Yes, exactly. Much better way to put it.

Lillian: So yes, it took me a minute, but as I started to digest it, I was like, you know, this is great. Even though I think romantic, Classic and natural are three of the most common essences given out, I was like, this is so easy for me to dress for. My intuition kind of just came alive after that.

Okay. And, I realized that kind of my intuition this whole time [00:43:00] had been telling me what my results were. If that makes sense. Okay. Yes, because the way I had wanted to dress. If you think back to my style statement, you know, the playful elegance that is essentially how Kitchener described my style was, relaxed, elegant, feminine with this playful element that can make a statement and he explained it in a really long way, but Yes. it felt so much easier to get ready. And I was surprised. I actually had a lot of pieces in my wardrobe that would work for it. It's like we talked about earlier, these elements that I thought were ethereal, were actually were romantic.

And so these pieces that I had loved on myself still worked for my style, but for a different reason.

Gabrielle: And you being the Moonstone in Rita, it helps you to kind of understand that reason. It gives you a little bit more clarity. You know, we can all say it's wonderful to just like learn from the style system, but sometimes we do need the answer a little bit.

Like sometimes that answer really helps us formulate our style in a more concrete terms so that we can play because we have faith [00:44:00] in those results, you know? Yes. So when you looked at your wardrobe, you were feeling like it was a reflection of all those elements?

Lillian: Yes, to some degree. Where I fit in Rita's system, I already wanted a solid, easy base, which my romantic, Classic natural is perfect for within those areas that I can play, I can add, you know, like a hair scarf or some fun shoes or playful jewelry. And that is what my style has been this whole time.

It felt really freeing. I think I'd been trying to fit myself into this very specific style that wasn't me for so long that once I was given more freedom. because romantic, Classic, natural, you can take a lot of ways. Especially with like, the little touches of the Ingenue, Gamine and dramatic at the end. You can do a lot of things with it.

Gabrielle: Like giving a chef like three ingredients, like what they come up with is going to be so different from each individual flavor goal palette. Each chef is going to create their own creation, you know, and that's what I think it should look like as a recipe [00:45:00] that you tweak, that you customize, that you tailor to your tastes.

I know he gives suggestions, but it's up to you to say, this one resonates. I like this element. I tried it, but I actually want to do this one more step to it. Like, let me take it a step further. He gives you like a base recipe for you to customize and build and evolve. Would you say that's accurate?

Lillian: Yes, definitely. And I think that, throughout my whole style journey, my intuition had been saying one thing and I was trying out all these different elements and the artist in me was like, this isn't working, but I don't know why this is working, but I don't know why. And so, getting my results from him and him explaining, you know, his system explains why these different things work and don't, it was like a marriage of the accountant and the artist where like the rules matched the intuition.

Gabrielle: Exactly.

Finding Alignment but the Style Search Moves on

Lillian: Because this whole time I think I had been seeing things in my face, whether it was harmony or disharmony or whatever. And I could see that, I could tell that, but I couldn't understand what to do about it or why.

And so then [00:46:00] getting the formula that matched it was like things just started clicking. I was like, I put something on, I'm like, oh yes, I see the harmony. Okay. We need this to complete it or whatever.

Gabrielle: You've satisfied both the accountant and the artist creative. Okay. I love hearing all about this journey. So what's next? How are you feeling about your style journey? Give us a little wrap up moment of where you are today and how it's got to look in the future. Are you done with style systems? Do you have the answer for now?

Lillian: For now, Yes. I'm feeling pretty satisfied with where I'm at in the systems. I definitely want to explore more with my essences. I haven't been able to buy anything new because I'm eight months pregnant and won't do me any good.

Gabrielle: Maybe this is like a great little like pause and evaluate, forced evaluation, forced 'no buy'.

Lillian: Yes. I've actually found since I got my results that I don't need as much of the framework that I needed before. So a lot of what I created on my board on Milanote, I was able [00:47:00] to delete a lot of it. Because I didn't need so much rigidity. Because I can rely on my intuition again. Going forward I plan to mostly focus on creating my base mostly with the romantic, Classic natural. And then exploring, different playful elements, ways I can bring in the fun and, Yes.

Because I love having a fun, playful style and like I said, sharing some of my personality in there. I've realized that I, have to make specific goals for my style. Like, I want to try incorporating cheetah print somewhere in my style, or I want to try headscarves or something like that.

That's way easier for me than creating a mood board and just be like, that's what I want my style to be. Yes, and so that's how I plan on going forward is to work on building my base, which I don't think will be very hard, and then just letting myself play with various elements.

Gabrielle: That's awesome. It really sounds like that last essence analysis with Kitchener was really kind of like the key that unlocked everything and you were circling around so many good ideas before, but this [00:48:00] was just like, okay, this is it.

This is the recipe I need to follow. And now it's really about that customization. How do you see it? Can I play with this a little bit? Can I have that fun element added in the headscarf, the trend? Whatever the case may be, you now have that base to build off of it. And that's just amazing. thank you so much for coming on.

It has been a joy to talk to you and I really think that, hearing what worked and what doesn't is so important in style journeys. Because there's so much information out there and sometimes we feel like Kibbe worked for everyone. I have to listen, I have to find my Kibbe id. And it's clear that like it's a journey and eventually you unlock the door and I think that people will really resonate that took you a while to get there, but you landed on the right thing eventually. So thank you for coming on.

Lillian: Yes, of course. Thank you for having me.

Gabrielle: Okay, until next time guys.