Fire Investigation INFOCUS podcast

S.2 Ep.16- Back in The Studio: Catch up with us on Fire Investigation Stories, AI Tools, and Generational Games.

• Season 2 • Episode 16

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Welcome back! In this episode our hosts return to recording live episodes together! Chasity kicks things off with exciting news about launching her own fire investigation company and shares stories from her incredibly busy first week, including four fires and some impressive networking at joint examinations. She takes us through fascinating cases, from a kitchen fire caused by cloth items accidentally left in a broiler to a massive carport fire involving 20 vehicles that initially had witnesses convinced arson was involved - until solid forensic work proved otherwise.

Scott shares his own intriguing cases, including a potential spontaneous heating incident from improperly disposed refinishing materials, and discusses the importance of witness interviews after sharing a gripping story about an apartment fire with suspicious Ring camera footage. The hosts dive into the challenges of single-resource investigation work and emphasize the critical balance between forensic evidence and witness statements in determining fire origin.

The episode features their signature movie quote game (with mixed results on Chasity's movie knowledge!), valuable insights about approaching experts at conferences, and Scott's mind-blowing demonstration of ChatGPT's new Agent Mode for research tasks. They also highlight upcoming training opportunities across multiple states and remind listeners about their upcoming appearance at the Illinois chapter meeting where they'll be teaching classes and recording a live podcast segment.

Throughout the episode, the hosts maintain their trademark blend of technical expertise, practical advice, and genuine enthusiasm for fire investigation, making complex forensic concepts accessible while sharing real-world experiences that showcase both the science and art of their profession. Whether you're a seasoned investigator or just curious about fire investigation, this episode delivers valuable insights wrapped in engaging storytelling.

Key Topics Covered:

  • Starting a fire investigation business
  • Kitchen fire safety and broiler storage mistakes
  • Large-scale carport fire investigation techniques
  • Spontaneous heating from refinishing materials
  • Witness interview strategies and timing
  • Conference networking and expert consultation
  • AI tools for research and documentation
  • Upcoming training opportunities nationwide
  • Fire pattern analysis and undetermined classifications

Upcoming Training Events:

  • North Dakota Annual Training Conference (Sept 24-26)
  • Nebraska Conference in Norfolk (Sept 16)
  • California CCAI Conference in San Luis Obispo (Oct 6-9)
  • Arkansas Fire Prevention Conference (Oct 14-16)
  • Alabama Conference in Orange Beach (Oct 27-29)
  • Illinois Chapter Meeting in Peoria (Sept 15-17) - featuring the hosts!

Note: The hosts will be teaching AI classes and conducting a live podcast recording at the Illinois conference - don't miss the chance to meet them in person!


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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Fire Investigation In Focus podcast, your source for origin and cause insights. Join

SPEAKER_03:

Scott Coleman

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and Chassidy Owens as we discuss the field of fire investigation and ignite your curiosity. Yeah, literally, it's insane. It's insane in the membrane. Okay, we're starting.

SPEAKER_03:

Are we starting?

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Yeah.

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Hey, this is good.

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Yeehaw.

SPEAKER_03:

It has been a minute since it's just you and me.

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Yeah, like that we're recording an entire episode all the way through live action, not at ITC.

SPEAKER_03:

Not that we didn't enjoy that.

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We did, but we missed it. But I missed

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this. So it was funny, we'd get together. Okay, let's do an intro. And we're like, oh, we're going too long. We have... the ITC to get in here. So we had to cut that down. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, our intros, we'd start getting into like 20 minutes and be like, crap, we got to reel this in.

SPEAKER_03:

So let's go over our last two weeks since our last time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, let's figure it out.

SPEAKER_03:

I know. Let's start with you. You had really big news.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I gave the really big news two weeks ago and now it's happened and it's going great.

SPEAKER_03:

My week was booked. Well, you got to tell the listeners who may not listen to every episode what's going great.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I have started my own fire investigation company with a business partner. I feel like it's so obvious, but oh well.

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Anyway. Well, we don't want to use this platform to promote anything for us. Right. It's more for what's good for the community. That's why we're being weird

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about it. Right. But this is my experience as myself. But we're not. We just don't. For those of you that know us, know us. Yeah. And you know what we're talking about. That's why we're not like being super depth because we don't want to be advertising. But anyway, this whole first week, the week of the fourth, I had four fires.

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Yeah, you were killing

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it. Yeehaw.

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I'm like, man, she is

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killing it. I had four fires. I was approached by someone at a joint exam. Two people, actually. I... I'm just wheeling and dealing and trying to do what I can.

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Can I just say something?

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Yeah.

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I think they know the quality of work and the passion you have for this job. Yeah. So I think that shows through. And I think that's why you're kind of hitting the ground running. Now, it's only been like a week and a

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half. Yeah, we can't jinx it. So we don't know what happens next week. For sure. Well, I leave for Kentucky on Thursday. Thursday night. Okay. To go to... visit friends and family. I do it twice a year. It happened to fall on one of my best friend's daughter's birthday. She's turning four.

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You can say your best friend's

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daughter's name. I'm so excited. The daughter's name? Her name's Adeline.

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Adeline!

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They don't listen so they won't even know that this happened. Remove her name right now. And then the following weekend I'm going to Montana for my old roommate's baby shower.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, Bree. Not only was it a busy week, you have busy weeks coming up.

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Yeah.

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That's awesome.

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With travel and hopefully with fires.

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Any cool fires that you covered?

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In this week, two of them were joint exams that I have been on for a little bit. So not super interesting yet, but... I'm at this joint exam with a couple people that we know. And there's a couple different experts. And my favorite thing about joint exams, when they get specific, is that you have those specialized people who come in. And it's like you're getting a conference for free.

SPEAKER_03:

And the expert you're talking about, because we don't have permission to mention his or her name.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, which we have mentioned him before, but because it's

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in work. But he specializes in commercial kitchens. Yeah. So I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but it wasn't just him. There was another guy there who another fire investigation company had hired to be there, and he specialized in that realm.

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Oh, wow.

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Holy cannoli.

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You're getting the science and the legal all at once.

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And he knew a lot about the science, too, but I'd never heard of him before. And so I walked right up to him, shook his hand. I was like, Hey, I'm Chastity Owens. I love this part. So anything that you want to talk out loud, please do. And hearing perspectives from both sides, because they, the person we know, and then this other person weren't representing the same thing. And that's always good. It was the, it was, I was like, so I was there for my client, obviously. And then So we had a position to where we were almost like an observative position because we're not really involved in the subrogation portion of this. So they just wanted me to be there in case something came up. To represent their

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interest.

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I just got to absorb it all. Oh, man. I was just... soaking it in it was so much fun

SPEAKER_03:

it's so cool and i'm glad you shared that story and you didn't share it with me prior to this because usually we talk a lot but i know that we have this coming up now so we didn't

SPEAKER_01:

share stories we have to try to have something to talk about

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because i have a good little fire too we went on the other day but on this one we take these classes you understand the generalities of a commercial kitchen and then you get down into some specifics

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and

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But then when it's to a certain case and now you get to even more specificity, like this is exactly what happened. You're like, oh my gosh, like I'm so jealous right now.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I just love that. Fun. Um, little safety tip.

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Yep.

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Don't leave cloth items in your broiler.

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Oh, tell us

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about

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that one. That's a great

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one. Yeah. Poor, poor person. Um, so she was younger, but I'm not going to go too deep into it cause it's not fully closed yet, but kitchen fire is, looked a little weird at first, was trying to cook chicken in the oven. The chicken wasn't cooking. She couldn't figure out why. And then all of a sudden, there's a ton of smoke. She starts to see fire and exits the apartment. And turns out she had accidentally, she had either accidentally turned on the broiler or the fact that she just had the cloth down there. She had an apron and an oven mitt stored in the broiler. And that's where all of your oxidation is. That's where the melting was. And it spread from there out. And there was like a two-inch gap on one side of the oven.

SPEAKER_03:

Between the cabinet and the oven?

SPEAKER_01:

On the outside, yeah. And that area was just hammered.

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Really?

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But for a second, when I first arrived, it looked like it might be electrical.

SPEAKER_03:

So that's pretty common on the public side. Will go on fires... and I'm saying in air quotes, you can't see me, cooking fires, but a lot of times people will use the broiler as a storage and they'll put like Tupperware and stuff and then they'll accidentally turn it on or not understand. A lot of people will think it's like for storage.

SPEAKER_01:

Or like the pots and pans with the handles. Pots and pans

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with the handles. And then other people will keep like Pyrex, I don't even know if you know what that is, like a glassware in the actual oven.

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And

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then they'll be like, oh, well that created a lot of room. I'll keep a pan and pot in there with those plastic handles. And then they'll forget they're in there and they'll

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preheat.

SPEAKER_03:

And then we get these fires. And so it's really not cooking. It's just, I guess you would title it improper storage in a heating appliance or cooking. But yeah, so they're not uncommon, but it's, I remember getting some of those on the private side, but it's not uncommon to get them here on the public side

SPEAKER_01:

either. It was crazy too, because the person that I was talking to was like, It just doesn't make any sense that they would have an oven fire because the chicken's not burned. And I was like, huh? Because before I got there, I was like, that's so weird. What do you mean? So I was expecting to be there and be like, there's fire in the oven, but the chicken's not cooked. That's weird, but no.

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That is weird.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we ended up figuring it out.

SPEAKER_03:

So I have a pretty good little fire, and I have to be careful how I talk because we're still investigating it. However, I can talk about what is public. If you have time and you Google search a Santa Ana carport fire, it's all over the news. It gives you stories and stuff, but we're currently investigating that. So I have a newer investigator with me and it was my turn to capture like witness statements and video.

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Okay.

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And so we listened to the first engine companies on, this is like three 30 in the morning.

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Yeah.

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So they're like, Hey, we're on scene and, We have a huge header. We have about 20 cars on fire in a carport. Holy cow. I'm like, whoa. So let me describe the carport because you may be describing like where you're at where maybe it's like a concrete carport or like the ones where they're against the back wall of a property and then you just park in there.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. That's exactly what I thought.

SPEAKER_03:

This one is, so it's 10 on one side and then on the other side, there's a dividing wall. On the other side, there's 10.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh,

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okay. But it's covered with a roof, and it's at a peak. And at the peak of the roof, they've just taken that lumber from the walls and went all the way up, and that's where the peak meets. So it's 16-inch opening in between those studs. So it's just all well-ventilated. So everybody that we're interviewing is like, hey, man, we think it's important. They poured gasoline. There's no way it can do this. So I'm just really proud of my newer investigator. I'm like, hey, don't listen to them. Don't get caught up in that. You just do the forensics of it. I will handle it. There's so much damage. I think you're only going to be able to get so far. We're really going to have to solve this through witness statements, and maybe we'll capture some video. So all I can say is, sure enough, after hours of interviewing a lot of people, I've ended up working back to someone who had some camera footage. and someone who had snapped a picture early on in the fire. And I can tell you, my partner got it right on which side it originated, but we found exactly the car and where in the car it started. It wasn't gasoline. It wasn't anything like that. So just imagine if you have 20 cars, 10 on one side, 10 on the other, or burn cells. So when I do the burn cells and we just have a couch and like a love seat in there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

The amount of heat and the growth and the way that fire spreads through radiation and conduction convection. Imagine having 20 cars, which has a huge amount of heat release rate. It goes from one car to another. You have a peaked roof, so it's capturing all that heat. So I think what they observed...

SPEAKER_01:

Plus the ventilation.

SPEAKER_03:

Plus the ventilation. There's nothing keeping it from going to the other side. So it's going over the wall through that opening. So... one side was going, the other side, like it all kind of took off at once. Like someone poured gasoline. Well, that's the radiant heat and the convection bringing that hot gas over and then just igniting. So basically it was like a flashover on that side. So when they're describing that, you know, one of our hypothesis, like, yeah, someone could have done that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Cause you have a fire that everyone's noticing that where there was no fire earlier on. So, but I'm like, Hey, don't, don't let that guide you. he's like, no, no, no. I'm just going to get out of here and I'm just going to do the forensics of it. I'm going to just see where the fire patterns take me. So he did, he just did really good.

SPEAKER_01:

It's so hard with where you're talking about like him. Don't let it guide you. Stuff like that. When on the private side, we often have the insured there at the same time, just talking and talking and talking and talking. When you're trying to do your process of elimination, they're asking you to tell them exact, like exactly what happened. And I had a conversation the other day where, And I was just like, I explained it. I was like, my process is process of elimination. So I've only been here for five minutes. I've got things to do. I've got to disprove myself on a lot of this stuff. And then I'll come back to you in a little bit. And they were like, oh, okay. But I lied. I have another interesting one that you're going to like.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, why did you hide it from me?

SPEAKER_01:

Because I forgot and it popped in my head because I was like, wait, that's a cool one too. I had a potential. There wasn't anything to collect and take samples of, but a potential spontaneous heating.

SPEAKER_03:

Self-heating. I love it. Okay. Give me the details.

SPEAKER_01:

So basically they were moving in and decided to refinish the floors and there was a fire the next morning. They finished that night.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

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Didn't properly dispose of things because they didn't know.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. No one really does.

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And yeah. They're probably a

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younger family. I

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didn't get to meet the people in person. I don't even know how old the male was who did the staining and stuff. But he basically was just like, yeah, I was just refinishing the floors because we previously had carpet. And we left at 830 and came back the next morning and there was smoke everywhere.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, was the fire department called or there was just smoke damage?

SPEAKER_01:

They called the fire department once they arrived the next morning.

SPEAKER_03:

So it just smoldered? Did it transition into like flaming?

SPEAKER_01:

He said he saw flames, a little bit of flames when he walked in to see where the smoke was coming from, from my area of origin. He saw flames in that area and then shut the door and called the cops or called the fire department. But yeah, that was exciting too.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, if this is your first episode you're listening to with us and enjoying this, thank you. Go back and listen to Doug Byron's episode a couple episodes back. He talks about self-heating in depth, and I can't tell you how many calls and DMs I got from that. Oh, speaking of... Speaking of calls and DMs. Yeah, have you had any interesting contacts with any of our listeners lately? Has anyone reached out?

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Yeah, I would have to look on my phone now.

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so i had a really good one

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okay

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so i want to shout out to my new friend jamel he called and he's like hey i just want to get clarification so he sends me through dm so it's a written okay it's just basically i mean it's a long thing but basically summarize it he's okay i just want to get clarification of when and what's the best way and when is the best time to do interviews

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yeah

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and i'm like hey dude here's my personal cell phone number man

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Yeah.

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Because I can't, there's so many ways to answer that.

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Yeah.

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So we ended up talking for like an hour. This is, this is why you and I wanted to do this podcast.

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Yeah.

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This guy is passionate. He wants to get it right. He's stoked in the field. He's been doing it a couple of years. And I told him, I said, Hey, I need to know your setup. Like, how are you set up to do this? Are you a single resource or do you have two investigators? He goes, I'm a single. I go, okay. So if you look in 921 and, they actually say best practice is to capture the interviews first. And in my experience, when I was a single responding investigator, I agree with that because they're only excited about the fire and wanna talk to you for a limited time. So as soon as like the flames go down and it gets cold and it kind of gets boring, The people that have information just start going.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. The excitement has worn off. They're ready to move on.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. So if you can capture those key and nowadays everyone's got video and someone may have that video, like we just captured on this, the carport fire, like, Oh, it's right there. Matter of fact, it's right, right there. Yeah. So I'm like, Hey, even nine 21 recommends it. The only thing you need to be aware that it opens you up to now is bias.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Cause now you've had this, you've had that. So if you can articulate, yeah, I use the scientific method. Not only did I get this statement, I got nine other different hypotheses that people threw at me, like yours on that one you were just talking about. There's no way it's cooking fire. The chicken wasn't burned.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You're like, actually, that's a really good point. However, you hadn't seen the scene yet, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03:

So you have that information and you're like, okay, this is weird. You're going, you can't unremove that information. Mm-hmm. But you followed your process. Exactly. That would all make sense now.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't even go straight to the oven on that one. You have to start from the outside and go in, regardless of what your brain's thinking, because you'll get caught in a bias situation.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, let's talk about that. That would be a great way to challenge you. So we go to court, and I don't see any exterior photos. I don't see anything. What if, during your scene examination, the power's cut off and the gas is cut off? You've now eliminated any... way that oven stove was designed to operate now how are you having a fire in there

SPEAKER_01:

yeah exactly and

SPEAKER_03:

so you don't document that we can open that up you didn't document it well how do you know how do you know someone didn't put something in there and start those cloths on fire

SPEAKER_01:

exactly right

SPEAKER_03:

yeah yeah so that's if you just got to follow that process every way but jamel just thank you for the phone call i just what we've been attracting you and i Just people who are passionate. They love to talk at our level. Like, oh, let's dig in more. Well, let's find out

SPEAKER_01:

more. Just like going down the rabbit holes and challenging each other. It's just such a fun conversation. I,

SPEAKER_03:

I loved it. It just pumped me up. You know, we've been, you and I have been under doing a lot this week and last week. Plus we've just had an onslaught of training that we're involved in lately.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I've been like really just kind of like, all right, I'm feeling my age a little bit.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

First time I've done that. And then when he called and we had that conversation, he was like, hey, thanks so much. I appreciate taking time. I'm like, no, this is why we do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Because I had a bunch of guys that would always pull me under. They're like, hey, come here. We want to show you this. And I could ask any question and not feel stupid, even if in their mind they may have thought that's a pretty rudimentary question.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And that's

SPEAKER_01:

the worst when someone's like, you mean you don't know that or something like that? That's just not the attitude to have in a constantly learning industry. Yes,

SPEAKER_03:

it does note. I mean, sure, you can kick them in the teeth and then you may stifle someone that's really wanting to go and they're like, I'm not getting accepted in this field.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's like, what does that say about you? But anyway. Not everybody has those types of connections. And I feel like that's part of what we want, which we say this all the time, but some people you probably haven't listened or whatever. That's why we started the podcast because we want to help create those connections or be that connection or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_03:

And this is really, see, I wonder if you agree with me on this. We never meant to like promote going to IAAI or even NAFI, National Association of Fire Investigators or your local chapter, but we, That's a place where you can talk to professionals and at least the board members by design are there to help you. And whether you go to IWAI or NAFI or your local chapter, they usually wear a uniform or something where they stand out. And the intent of that is to I have a question. Can I approach you on that? And if he can't answer it, he knows nine other subject matter experts that do.

SPEAKER_01:

See, that's the intent, but it actually is a fear factor.

SPEAKER_03:

It does work in reverse sometimes.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a reversed fear factor. If you're not speaking from a student perspective where I was in college with all this and never had a fire background, didn't really feel that accepted because of that, all that stuff. When I would go to these conferences in the beginning, I would avoid those people. I didn't want to be... It's like... Oh, God. Because it's a sense... They look like authority, which is so weird because I'm on the board now. So it's like I'm one of those people. But... Respect my authority. Respect my authority. But it's like... Yeah. Now that I've been on both sides of the coin, you as a board member or you as the person who has the uniform on have to make an effort to talk to many people because... oftentimes they're too afraid to come up to you because they they know you're busy they don't want to bother you or take up your time or they think that you don't want anything to do with them or they don't know what the intent is to even have you there like are they just there to like keep everything in order and make sure nobody's out of hand or that everybody's listening because you come from a school background like me and we're like you know, be quiet and you got to listen to the instructor and all this stuff and you'll get in trouble if you do the XYZ. So I'm like, are these people here to monitor if I'm paying attention?

SPEAKER_03:

Are they going to grade me? Is this going to be on my report card?

SPEAKER_01:

What's going on? So yeah, just know that the people, if you're at a conference, the people that are in the collared shirts and the matching outfits or whatever are very friendly, very well connected and are there to talk and they will talk with you.

SPEAKER_03:

That is the design now. Also, you'll see Atlanta we tend to we would cluster together and at every meeting so if you don't know most of your boards will arrive a day or two early they'll have board meetings and on our board we'd be like okay everyone don't cluster together

SPEAKER_01:

go out and meet people pick different spots at the table bring someone with you to the table yeah

SPEAKER_03:

but we all start we're working on like 19 different projects and then you get a lot and then another guy sits down hey what about this project and then all of a sudden we're kind of in this group and you're like oh crap we're supposed to be helping people yeah so but yeah make sure you approach those people and you said something really interesting you said something about like a student right well first of all i want to comment the fact that you think that they were looking after you tells me what kind of student you were you probably were you a troubled child

SPEAKER_01:

no i was a an anxious child that wanted to be the perfect student so if i was doing anything out of the ordinary or something i was Like if I have whispered too loud or if like my pin dropped or something, I'd be like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03:

Just keep the class going.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll just leave right now. I was a very like, now this is me, like young, young me. I was very quiet, put together with severe ADHD, quiet into myself and was just tapping my feet basically like to get the energy out of me. But in college, um, I was also quiet until I started making friends because I had such a busy schedule. I couldn't make friends in class because I was running to dance after. Yeah, I

SPEAKER_03:

remember you telling me

SPEAKER_01:

that. Yeah, so I was technically a really quiet, would occasionally answer a question student until I got friends. And then I kind of changed into like... Not necessarily a troublemaker, but I would make jokes at the instructors, and we would riff off each other. Yeah, it was fun.

SPEAKER_03:

I can't imagine you quiet. It

SPEAKER_01:

was a very strange time for people to see me that way.

SPEAKER_03:

Leading into the two things, you said college and stuff. One thing I forgot to mention, this month, I'm enrolled in OSU, so I'm going for my master's.

SPEAKER_01:

That's this month? It starts this

SPEAKER_03:

month? It starts the 18th. So for any of my brothers and sisters starting, let's hook up and get some study groups going or something. That's exciting. I think Rick Jones, you need to know from IWI, I think he's starting as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, you guys should make a little study group message or something. There was someone else I feel like. I

SPEAKER_03:

know. There was someone I cannot remember. Someone super cool. So sorry if I don't remember. And then the other thing I forgot to mention is two days ago or yesterday, two days ago, We did, me and myself, along with Sean Miller, who's an investigator with me where I work, we did a two-hour class for IAAI students, which you promoted very well. Thank you. You're welcome. We had a very good turnout. But can I just say that Sawyer and Taylor?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

They are killing it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03:

You guys, even if you're not a student, sign up for that thing. They are making connections for you to make connections with. They proctored that class. They brought it together. This is one of many trainings

SPEAKER_01:

that they put on. Yeah. And I think there's one every two months, I'm pretty sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

In Sawyer's voice, you can hear the passion. Yeah. Taylor's just like super friendly and like, hey, let's do that. I'm like, man, you guys.

SPEAKER_01:

And she's challenging them. She'll call their name out and have them answer the questions because they have a good working relationship with them.

SPEAKER_03:

In a very cool way. Not like you should know. It's like, hey, why don't you try it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And so I kind of. vibed off that. You fed off of it. I'm like, hey, it's just us. So if we don't answer it, no one's grading you. We're here just to learn. It

SPEAKER_01:

cracked me up when you were like, is that Rick Jones? There was a guy that had a similar accent to Rick Jones and it was so funny. I was dying laughing on the other end.

SPEAKER_03:

Not only the accent, but that delivery Rick had. And I'm like, is that Rick Jones?

SPEAKER_01:

He had a similar twang and everything. It was so funny. I was cackling. It was so good. But he was rifting off the answers.

SPEAKER_03:

Every question in there was good. The one guy who said, hey, what are you doing for respiratory protection in wildland?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm like, that's funny. You say that we're currently looking at, we hooked up the clean space people, which we are sponsored by, but that's, that's the nature of, we truly did this. And we try, we hooked them up with the doctor who is currently doing that cancer study through Arizona, where they found out I have a bunch of PFAS in my blood. And what they were talking about is they're going to get 10 firefighters at or around involved in a brush fire that we can probably set and and then 10 with a clean space and see how much of that was absorbed through however, whatever, I don't know if it's a blood test or whatever, but how they do it. I'm like, man, that would be a really good study.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that really would be. I mean, this is a good place to insert clean space ad. Perfect. Oh,

SPEAKER_03:

let's talk about clean space.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I haven't opened the box yet.

SPEAKER_03:

I know. But just tell them. I mean, so... So Chastity, since we just mentioned Clean Space, what's a new product that you have?

SPEAKER_01:

I have officially gotten my Clean Space unit in the mail. I have not opened the box yet, but for good reason, because I'm going to do an unboxing. So I'm going to do an actual video of everything that comes in it so you guys can see it. I'll post it on our Instagram so you can see what everything entails and how it works and all that jazz.

SPEAKER_03:

So one thing I think you're underselling When I got my trial one, which I have to send back because our agency just bought us all, so we're going to repackage them and send them back. You just make it sound like a box. Mine came in just a small cardboard box.

SPEAKER_01:

Our box is different. What's different in our box? No, it's like a full-blown Pelican case that's chargeable. So you can plug the Pelican case up and charge your mask in there. Or you can set up your own situation if you want to. But you've got the full face, the half mask. You've got the filters that come in a separate box. It's just a whole... They make it look really good.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm excited. I'm excited for the unboxing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. It'll be so good. I had another story that I'm going to insert because you were talking about interviews. Yes. And I want to say, speaking of interviews, I was on a fire like last month or something where I had a client that I was working with that you don't often get a hold of the person, especially if it's an apartment client. You can't often get a hold of that person to get into their unit, so you really heavily depend on your neighborhood canvas. And so I go around this apartment complex, and I'm knocking on doors and taking statements, and two of the people had ring cameras. And they're like, we have the time stamps. We were waiting for a fire investigator to come around. Nobody has come and asked us about anything. And turns out that... The person who lived in this area had worked for that area, for that building, and was fired.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_01:

And then was being evicted and was in the process of moving out. And then a fire happens. And there's video footage. This part is kind of like gory, though.

SPEAKER_03:

We're getting true crimey here.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. There's video footage of her leaving before the fire with stuff in her hand, like weird, comes back. The alarm goes off. She leaves again without her dog. Her dog died.

SPEAKER_03:

That makes me sad.

SPEAKER_01:

In the apartment. She left her dog in there, full-blown knowing the fire's in her apartment.

SPEAKER_03:

Have you ever interviewed her?

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_03:

There's

SPEAKER_01:

video footage. And they were like, what do we do with it? We have these timestamps of her coming and going and leaving and leaving during the fire alarm, not panicked.

SPEAKER_03:

I have so many hypotheses in my head right now.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And one of them is not good.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. There's ways that I could play devil's advocate and make it seem like maybe she just thought it was a drill. Like maybe she didn't know. But you could already see smoke.

SPEAKER_03:

Ugh.

SPEAKER_01:

So... Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Brutal.

SPEAKER_01:

Interviews are important because I would have not known any of that if I had not knocked on anyone's door.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. While we're on that, that's why it's important to understand your forensics sometimes can only take you so far. Mm-hmm. On the Carport Fire, the best we were going to do is which side did it start on.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Like in your head, you were like, we're just going to get one side.

SPEAKER_03:

And as typical with newer investigators. Mm-hmm. He's like, well, I want to get down. I think it could be here. I'm like, I agree with you. I see why you say that. But you're over committing because I can argue 19 other ways why it's maybe started here. I go, what are we sure of that I really can't out argue on? He's like, I know it started here on this side. I'm like, I am with you. If you go any tighter than that, it's going to open up to a lot of challenge. I go, let me work the interview side. Because remember, what three things do we need in order to determine origin or that we're allowed to use to determine origin in 921? Fire effects, fire dynamics.

SPEAKER_01:

And witness statements. And witness statements,

SPEAKER_03:

right? Yeah. I say fire effects, but it's also fire pattern, fire effects. But witness statements. And witness statements include video and stuff like that, right? Surveillance is so convenient. And it's so prevalent. It's everywhere. Yeah. Just today, even though I'm off duty, I'm still getting texts from some of the property managers like, hey, I think we found some more video. Hey, I think we found that. So we're like, okay, cool. Let's check it out. Let me see it. Is it clear? Is it better? Yeah. But yeah, the fact that you canvassed the apartment complex, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's

SPEAKER_01:

awesome. And then we got some answers. But I was going to say something. Oh, yeah. To your point of area of origin, I mean, even on the private side, it's like that. It's just sometimes I'm like, it's this half of the apartment. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

It's as far as you can

SPEAKER_01:

get. I can't talk this in without having witness statements or video footage. And either they've cleaned the scene before I got there, which is so inconvenient, or... They

SPEAKER_03:

destroyed the scene. The fire guys have destroyed the

SPEAKER_01:

scene. Yeah, or the fire guys have destroyed the scene. But oftentimes, if the fire department hasn't thrown it out and it doesn't get thrown away, I can usually try to reconstruct my way back if it's still there for me to see. But a lot of the times, they throw it out. So the property owner throws it away thinking it's throw-away-able. And that leaves me in a tough spot.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know if that's a word, though.

SPEAKER_01:

Throw-away-able.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, I guess

SPEAKER_01:

I understood what you meant. Can you use it in a sentence this week? Throw-away-able.

SPEAKER_03:

Throw-away-able. Speaking of wacky, weird stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I saw another trend on social media. I just wanted to try it with

SPEAKER_01:

you. Trendy. Okay, let's go. Let's see.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm going to name just a couple movie quotes.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

And I want to know... if you can tell me what movie this is from. Just a couple, nothing big. They're older movies, but they're classics. And this one goes way back. Not a chance you were even close to being born at this time.

SPEAKER_01:

I

SPEAKER_03:

was about five.

SPEAKER_01:

You were about five when this movie came out. But I

SPEAKER_03:

know it, if you know this movie. And the quote is, I think we need a bigger boat.

SPEAKER_01:

So I just got to preface right now that... I was not a movie person growing up. My parents didn't show me movies. I didn't watch movies. I watched TV shows, but the only movies I watched... Not very many. Not very cultured in movies. So anything that I've seen has been like as an adult. I'm often the friend that people are like, you mean you haven't seen that movie? Well,

SPEAKER_03:

this is not going to work very well then.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. I just want to preface that right now. So, okay. I need a bigger boat. No. I think you're

SPEAKER_03:

going to need a bigger boat.

SPEAKER_01:

I think we're going to need a bigger boat.

SPEAKER_03:

What if I do this? Oh, is it Jaws? Jaws.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, okay. Very good.

SPEAKER_03:

They've

SPEAKER_01:

redone that a million times, so of course I know Jaws.

SPEAKER_03:

But you didn't get the line.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. Here's another line. Because

SPEAKER_01:

I haven't seen that

SPEAKER_03:

one. You may not have seen this one, though. This is a family classic. My sister and I used to watch it growing up all the time. It's great.

SPEAKER_01:

What year?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm moving you forward into the 80s now. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Still not born. And it's playing on

SPEAKER_03:

a TV in the background, but it's a famous line because then this person uses it later on during the movie.

SPEAKER_01:

I can tell you right now what it is.

SPEAKER_03:

What? Home Alone. Oh, my gosh. What's the line? Hold

SPEAKER_01:

on. Let me think. Because he's sitting there and he's like, keep the change, you filthy animal. That's the line. Oh, I didn't think you were going to get it. Oh, that's one of my favorite movies. Oh, yes. I love Home Alone.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

How did I...

SPEAKER_03:

You

SPEAKER_01:

literally just said it's on in the background on a TV. And I was like, I already know the movie.

SPEAKER_03:

Beautiful. Next. I was panicky. You weren't going to get that. I doubt you're going to get this one.

SPEAKER_01:

What year? Oh,

SPEAKER_03:

you'll get this one. I know it because my wife loves this show. A movie. I'm sorry. It was a big popular show back then. And I wouldn't have caught the line, but now I know it because my wife says it. But the line is, no one puts baby in a corner.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah. Dirty dancing. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah,

SPEAKER_03:

I didn't really. I would have never caught that if my wife didn't.

SPEAKER_01:

I've only seen that movie. Actually, I don't know if I've ever seen that movie all the way through. But I just know it because people quote it all the time.

SPEAKER_03:

What about... I'm just going to test your nerd here. Hold

SPEAKER_01:

on. I feel so good about the Home Alone one, though. That was like some telepathic stuff.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Very, very popular movie. What year? Early 80s. Okay. I'm just going to start. If I tell you more, you're right. Let me just say it then. So, there is no try, only do it.

SPEAKER_01:

It's Star Wars. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03:

Which one?

SPEAKER_01:

Yoda. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

So

SPEAKER_01:

the reason I know that is I've seen when I had my ACL surgery I think I watched four of them.

SPEAKER_03:

Let me ask you before you go on. Because your boyfriend wanted to or you just wanted to watch them?

SPEAKER_01:

I wanted to watch them because I had never before And I just was like, everybody's obsessed with Yoda. And I think Baby Yoda was coming out or whatever. Anyway, neither here nor there. So fun fact is my college dance team, our nationals quote my junior year on the back of our shirt was that.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh.

SPEAKER_01:

So I had to know it.

SPEAKER_03:

All right. Yeah. Then we'll stay in that genre.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

And the quote's going to be, Live long and prosper.

SPEAKER_01:

I know that. But I know the quote. Joe

SPEAKER_03:

Bermatino is going crazy right now when he's listening to this episode. Say it again. Live long and prosper.

SPEAKER_01:

What year?

SPEAKER_03:

Joe is screaming at you right now. What year is the movie from? Well, it was a series. Then it went into movies. Then it went into movies. Multiple movies. Then there was another series. Then another movie. So it's a whole franchise.

SPEAKER_01:

And you know it? Have you seen it?

SPEAKER_03:

I've seen a lot of them. Yeah, when I was growing up.

SPEAKER_01:

Was it like Star Trek or

SPEAKER_03:

something? That was it. That's it. Do you know who says it?

SPEAKER_01:

No. If I

SPEAKER_03:

said Spock, would you even know who that is? Yeah. Oh, that's who says it.

SPEAKER_01:

But I've never seen them. Okay. I've not seen one Star Trek. Sorry, Joe. I can put context clues together, though, and guess things pretty well.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, okay. Okay. I got another one. This one. I saw this in a drive-in. It's

SPEAKER_01:

so funny because I could do this with you, too, with newer

SPEAKER_03:

movies. I'd be like, what is that? I saw this. But these are people culturally would know these. They left an impact on our Americana and beyond that, some

SPEAKER_02:

of these.

SPEAKER_03:

My parents had taken us. We were driving through a movie. My sister got scared of it, although it's not a scary movie. And the famous line is, I'm leaving a little part up, but it says, phone home.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, E.T. Oh, jeez. I've seen that.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I don't know. I don't know. Because Drew Barrymore.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

She's iconic in that movie. All right. Little baby. Of course I know E.T.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't think you'll get this one.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Yeah, give me a challenge. Jeez.

SPEAKER_03:

Every guy on here is going to know it.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, then I'm probably going to know

SPEAKER_03:

it. No.

SPEAKER_01:

I had a brother.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I have a brother. He's still alive.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm just going to give you the quote. I'm not giving you any context because you're using the context more than the quote.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm going to say it in my voice.

SPEAKER_01:

Can you give me a year, at least? Or the

SPEAKER_03:

year-ish? Probably like 80, because I didn't see it until guys in the firehouse were like, you haven't seen it? We're watching it tonight. And we had a party thing. Say hello to my little friend.

SPEAKER_01:

I know that.

SPEAKER_03:

What is it?

SPEAKER_01:

I know the quote, though.

SPEAKER_03:

What is it? Name anything, the movie, the person who said it, the

SPEAKER_01:

actor. It's Scarface.

SPEAKER_03:

Well done. Do you know who said it?

SPEAKER_01:

The actor? Yeah, I can see his face. Well, that doesn't tell me anything. It's an Italian name.

SPEAKER_03:

Al Pacino.

SPEAKER_01:

Al Pacino, yeah. I about said Tarantino. Close enough. Wow, I'm good. Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

I know you're going to get this one. Okay. I feel the need... For speed. What movie?

SPEAKER_01:

Need for Speed. I mean, Fast and Furious.

UNKNOWN:

What?

SPEAKER_01:

No? No. What is it? I can see why you would

SPEAKER_02:

think

SPEAKER_01:

that. I know that I feel the need for speed because I used to play the video game Need for Speed growing up. No. Wait, hold on. Let me think. No. Is it cars or is it planes?

SPEAKER_03:

It's planes.

SPEAKER_01:

Is it Top Gun? Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. Oh, so good. I could see why you would go there. You're just so darn logical.

UNKNOWN:

I know.

SPEAKER_01:

Hope you guys are having fun, as much fun as we are.

SPEAKER_03:

I'll do one more. I saw this. This guy was trying to talk to his younger daughter, and he said, my baloney has a first name. It's O-S-C-A-R.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. My baloney has a second name. It's Meyer. Oscar Meyer has a way with the O-L-O-G-N-Y. Her

SPEAKER_03:

response was like, because he wouldn't finish the last sentence, she's like, you guys all named your baloney back then? What?

UNKNOWN:

What?

SPEAKER_03:

Anyway, I just want to have a little fun with you. We haven't had a game for a while.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that was fun. I enjoy those things.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know if our listeners do. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we will see. You want to know how long? You're all

SPEAKER_03:

not shy on telling us what you think.

SPEAKER_01:

For real. No, and you know what? When you said that you've had interesting interactions from listeners, I've had a lot of good interactions when I posted that I'd started the business online. A lot of the people who commented and said thank you, or not thank you. A lot of people who had commented and said congratulations were like, love the podcast, by the way. Oh,

SPEAKER_03:

good.

SPEAKER_01:

Like would add something in about the podcast. Like I've been listening or blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh my gosh, thank you guys for listening. So we are very appreciative of everyone who's listening. Everyone who has been listening since day one or day, whatever day we're on. What day? How long have we been doing this? A year and a half? A

SPEAKER_03:

year and a half, but interesting. I ran the analytics the other night just to see what's going on. And if we keep the pace at which you guys are listening to and you keep giving us the five stars, which we always appreciate that. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

because AI can't do it. Yeah. So you guys have to do it.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, by the way, remind me of something AI. But we really appreciate it. And according to the analytics, we may be in the top 10%. of all podcasts that are hosted by Buzzsprout, which we're like, what? How is

SPEAKER_01:

that possible? So crazy. Because we're so niche. It's just crazy that we're in top 10%.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think we are. We have to wait to the end of the year. But right now, it's like if they run the numbers now, you're between the top 1% and 10%. I'm like, what is happening right now?

SPEAKER_01:

You guys, that's all thanks to you.

SPEAKER_03:

So thank you. Well, let's talk about what we are actually known for, and that's FIRE. FIRE

SPEAKER_01:

investigation. I feel like we had some really good... stories in the beginning though so it pulled us through but do we want to get into some of our segments or are we talking about something that you had an idea about

SPEAKER_03:

well this is part of a segment i guess you're right huh

SPEAKER_01:

yeah i didn't know because usually when you go to your paper it's a segment okay what is it tell me what it is

SPEAKER_03:

i did something really cool with ai the other day

SPEAKER_01:

what was that thing that you told me to remind you about ai what was

SPEAKER_03:

oh you guys so As we're broadcasting this, ChatGPT 5 just came out. But prior to that, there was a button on there that if you click it, you can use the agent mode. You guys, I'm telling you, I've used it about five times now. It's amazing. I would go to ChatGPT. The only thing I don't know is because I do pay$20 a month for that because I teach on that so much. I don't know if you get access to agent mode if you use the free version. It may be worth going up to the$20, but let me tell you what I did. I had a question. So the agency I worked for, we were absorbed by the current agency I work with. And what happened is those of us that have pensions from that agency, California does spot audits every once in a while. And one of our guys got audited. And they said, hey, we've looked at everything. We see that your uniform allowance is doesn't have any backing on why it should be included and wrapped up into your pension, we want to work with you. But if you can't find documentation, we're going to have to remove that. And everyone who's gotten that since he retired is going to have to pay that money back.

SPEAKER_01:

Holy cow.

SPEAKER_03:

And that's not the first time that they've done this. So I got a phone call, a panic phone call. Hey, dude, they're doing this. I'm like, all right. I said, I have a MOU from 17, 18. We went over in 2019. And someone had the MOU from 2009 to 12. And I remember we negotiated and we just extended the 12 contract over to 15 or something. Bottom line, I didn't have the addendum or the resolution saying that our uniform allowance was pensionable. I couldn't find it. I called other past presidents and board members like we couldn't find it. So I went to agent mode in chat GPT. I clicked on agent and I go. I want you to search the entire internet for any and all documents for local 2005 Garden Grove Fire Department. And I want you to provide me a link. Once you're done, let me know. It says, okay, I'll do it. So what it does, it takes, you'll see a screen pop up and it starts using your internet and it shows you in real time. It's like, Okay, Scott asked me to do this. Okay, I'm looking for this. Okay, that's not Garden Grove. This is the one I

SPEAKER_01:

want. And you can see it doing all that.

SPEAKER_03:

It's doing it. So instead of taking over your computer, which would kind of freak you out, it makes a little window and it creates its own browser like you have. And you see it clicking through the website, going to the city of Garden Grove, and it's telling you exactly what's... And it's showing its logic. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, my Lord. I'm going to be using that all the time.

SPEAKER_03:

After 15 minutes... It came back and it says, here's the documents you have. Here's one specific. It has a resolution. I clicked it. It brought me to the document. And then I said, write a letter to CalPERS, letting him know this is a document showing the agreement. Please. Thank you for the time that it wrote this professional letter. I sent it to my buddy who was getting audited. He put his name and we send it. Boom. They're good. That's exactly what we needed. I'm telling you, that would have taken me, you know, maybe an hour. Yeah, it did it. And wrote the letter in 15 minutes. So I did it again the other day. I had somebody come over and they're like, hey, Scott, we're trying to see what this budget was for a certain section in our agency. I'm trying to compare the 2019 up till now. We have not been given the amount of an increase in budget relevant to everybody else when not keeping up with inflation. That's why our sections needs to. They're trying to argue like you aren't giving us amount of money that we should to keep up with what we're doing. Yeah. So I go, hey, can I show you something? They're like, yeah. So I went to chat GPT. I put in agent. So you'll see a plus thing in the sign-in sheet. I'm sorry, in the search bar. In the sign-in sheet. I know. It's not there right now as we're speaking because they switched to chat GPT-5. So I don't know where to find it right now because it literally came out. But you push it. You say agent mode. I said, find the budget for this part of this agency right Once you're done, take all that, put it into an Excel spreadsheet, show me the cost, and then calculate the percentages. Next to that, find what the average inflation was in California for those same times, put it there, and show me how it's not keeping up with inflation or if it is. 20 minutes, I walked away. Me and that person got coffee. We came back. It was done in an Excel spreadsheet. It gave you everything and it gave me links directly to the documents. You guys. You guys. You've

SPEAKER_01:

got to start using this. You should see my face. I'm like thinking about all the things I'm going to have this agent do for me.

SPEAKER_03:

It's like having a coworker. That's awesome. And everything so far has been accurate. Now, I always give my disclaimer. These AIs can hallucinate. So you always have to fact check everything. Go to the links, make sure they're the right links. I did something the other day and I think for the test for the students, for the IWAI webinar

SPEAKER_02:

we just did.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm like, hey, here's my presentation. Here's my content. Help me write 10 questions. Not necessarily hard, but that get drive the point across. And this is what I'm trying to do in these like 10 slides. So it wrote them and I'm like, make sure you give me the right answer. I want to verify which one and show me exactly in the PowerPoint where you did it. Well, I got some of them wrong. I'm like, oh, yeah. I'm like, okay. So it doesn't know everything. You have to double check your work. But it does 90% of the heavy lift

SPEAKER_01:

and then the 10%. It has its limitations.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. So with this chat GPT-5, they're saying the hallucinations have gotten down to like 1.9%.

SPEAKER_01:

You just said hallucinations.

SPEAKER_03:

Hallucinations. Anyway, that was my little chat GPT or AI fun for the day. As you know, we're teaching a class in September.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So I work that agent into our class. I haven't shared it with you yet, so that's why you're learning at the same time. So we're going to put that in the curriculum.

SPEAKER_01:

I actually pay for ChatGPT as well, so I'm going to go play with that when I get home.

SPEAKER_03:

The thing is they just upgraded it, so it's kind of different. Because remember, when you used to go on to ChatGPT, there was 4.0, 3.0, 4.0 Mini, so 4.0. anything with an O in it,

SPEAKER_02:

that

SPEAKER_03:

was research related. It would do deep research.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But if you went to three mini, four mini, that was just like straight, like, okay, here's what I know. So you wouldn't know which one to use unless you're kind of nerdy like me. Yeah. So what chat GPT five is supposed to do, you'll notice there's no more, you don't have an option.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

There, those other models are still there. They live there. But it has an internal router. So if you ask a question, it's going to say, hey, I'm not going to waste your tokens. Because, you know, even when you pay, you only get so many questions and answers.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm not going to waste your tokens using 4.0. This can be a 3 mini and almost use no tokens

SPEAKER_01:

at all.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And it will get the job done for what the level of research you're looking for. Yeah, that's really sick. It's real. I mean, yeah, it's good.

SPEAKER_01:

What I've been using. Daily AI right now is like an email assistant.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, which one? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01:

So I was using Fixer for a little while. Okay. But that's$50 a month. So I found one called Jace.

SPEAKER_03:

Spell it.

SPEAKER_01:

So I didn't pay for Fixer. I got the free trial. And then when it said$50 a month, I was like, no. So I find one. Jace, it's J-A-C-E.

SPEAKER_03:

J-A-C-E,

SPEAKER_01:

okay. It's only like$12.50 a month.

SPEAKER_03:

Let me ask you something. What is it doing for you?

SPEAKER_01:

It... it color codes my emails based off of if it's needs to be replied to if i'm waiting for a reply if it's an fyi type of email if it like it has eight different colors for different things that i need it categorized for okay it does my drafts for me so if someone's emailed me it'll make a draft already i'll go click on it read it if i like it i'll keep it if i don't i'll obviously edited or whatever, but it's just, it makes my life a lot easier.

SPEAKER_03:

So, you know what you and I both have Gemini in our Google account.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I played with that.

SPEAKER_03:

You didn't like it.

SPEAKER_01:

It's just, it doesn't label. Nope. It won't label your emails. It, and it's like the draft portion. I don't know. It's just like, which is why these places are making money. It doesn't have enough all in one. You're having to like do extensions and order it. it to be able to do certain stuff and this for 12.50 a month I'm like it does everything for me it's adapting to my language from my previous emails

SPEAKER_03:

so y'all and yeehaw

SPEAKER_01:

no not for work I don't do yeehaw for work but yeah so I like it so far nice

SPEAKER_03:

Scott yes ma'am what the What the we train frequently.

SPEAKER_01:

We do train frequently. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_03:

And our hope is that you do too. And if you're not, we're going to give you some places you can go. Actually, I have a couple of fun ones that I'm very excited for. And I'm very sad because I can't attend them. And in all seriousness, I'm not happy about that. So if you're looking to go to a chapter conference and you're in North Dakota, they are having their annual training conference September 24th. through September 26th. Nebraska, I think we covered it last episode, but we just want to make sure they get mentioned in September 16th through September 18th in Norfolk, Nebraska. Of course, in California, if you're here locally, it's CCAI and it's going from October 6th to October 9th, 2025 in San Luis Obispo. And the last two, if you're in Arkansas, it's Fire Prevention and Investigation Conference. That's going to be October 14th through October 16th. And the final one is in Alabama. They're going to have their conference from October 27th to October 29th in Orange Beach. And then there's some online training I wanted to make you aware of. And this is the one I was saying, I'm very bummed. And you're going to be bummed too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I don't know. You may be able to attend. I'm teaching class.

SPEAKER_01:

Online?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. Okay. So we've mentioned before fire findings. Yes. They're awesome. They're based out of Michigan. If you can take any class there, I would. Just even the classroom is made for learning, just on the walls. There's things hanging of things that went bad, and you have to kind of figure out during break what happened, and then they'll go over it later in the class. But September 9th, through September 12th, they're having a, I think it's called a gas appliance or post-explosion class due to like appliances and stuff like that. And one of the instructors is Dr. Gorbett.

SPEAKER_01:

This is online?

SPEAKER_03:

No, I'm sorry. No, you go in person.

SPEAKER_01:

This one's not online. Yeah, you said yes because I was like, I thought we talked about this and it's not online.

SPEAKER_03:

No, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

I would love to go.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, so it's in Flint, it looks like. Flint, Michigan? Yeah, but usually they're somewhere else. I would go to fire findings. Just Google that. And then go under their training and find it. Because I don't want to give you bad information. It is a group of money. It's$1,300. Okay. But the value and who's instructing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

If you're going to learn that or you're interested in that type of fire damage,$1,300 is totally worth it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And then the final one. It's going to be September 3rd through September 5th in Bloomington, Illinois. That's Steve Riggs. It's through LLRMI, which is Legal and Liability Risk Management Institute. If you go to their website, you can find it, sign up for it. It's a great class. I've taken that one personally myself with Steve, and then I think the other gentleman is Tim Yendel. I had a great experience. They do it right. When I do my training, I've borrowed some of the ideas that they do because the way they teach, it just really reinforces the right way to do it and how it can go sideways. So I don't know the cost on that, but once again, go to llrmi.com. See if you can get out there. It'll be in Illinois September 3rd through September 5th.

SPEAKER_01:

Did you do our Illinois one?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I'm going

SPEAKER_01:

to do it. I have one. I saw it on LinkedIn, so I screenshotted it. Go

SPEAKER_02:

ahead, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So in New Jersey, they're having their second annual fire investigation symposium. So it's presented by Superior Fire and Emergency Response Training, LLC. It's October 11th through the 12th from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. That's going to be in Point Pleasant, New Jersey. They're doing appliance fires, fill-a-side, by-fire fires, and John Orr Serial Arsonist Q&A on serial arsonists. And you can register at superioremergencytraining.com. That's going to be$250. So if you're in that area, that seems like a pretty cool thing to get into.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And then finally, we've said it before, but we want to get a big showing here in Illinois for their chapter meeting. Yeah. It's going to be September 15th through the 17th. And it's going to be in Peoria. Chastity and I will be teaching a class on AI on Monday. I then have a defense attorney from the Innocence Center here in San Diego. We're going to be presenting a class on how you can, more like a report format, kind of go through. She'll be able to show you how. If you don't just even have these basics, you're opening yourself up for a lot of really low-hanging fruit arguments. And then on Wednesday... Miss Chastity and I will be doing a live segment of the podcast there. We'd love you to say bye. We'd love you to jump on one of these microphones, say shout out to whoever. Last time we did it at the IAAI, we met a lot of cool people. So fun. And sometimes just grab somebody and

SPEAKER_01:

be like, hey, we love your show. Sit down with us. Let's talk.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

if we have time for it, it's a lot of fun getting to know somebody.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so we'll be there doing that. And that's all I have for WTF.

SPEAKER_01:

For WTF.

SPEAKER_03:

I so bad want to make a theme song, but I know you think it's stupid.

SPEAKER_01:

I do.

SPEAKER_03:

I know.

SPEAKER_01:

I do. I do. I mean, maybe you can prove me wrong. Show me a couple samples.

SPEAKER_03:

All right. I'll see if AI can make a theme song.

SPEAKER_01:

You never know, but we can't end. No, we can't. Without. Can you? Use it. In a sentence. Can you use it in a sentence?

SPEAKER_03:

So last episode, I left you with undetermined generated fire patterns. I really wasn't going to cover it because it explains what it is, but I think it's important that you have to understand that. Our forensics has limitations. And if you can't conclusively say what it is, meaning if I have two really good possible explanations, then that pattern is going to be undetermined. It could have been from this or it could have been from this. Now, maybe early on in your investigation, you may go, I have these two patterns. I'm not sure what's going on. but after you're done doing your complete scene exam, you start looking at windows or ventilation openings, you can go, oh, this is consistent with more ventilation driven, okay? But you may walk away not knowing. But in the book, that title, is in 6.4.6 and just basically it says undetermined generated patterns. If the fire patterns generated cannot be conclusively determined, then the fire pattern is noted as undetermined. There are times that the investigator cannot discern what caused the patterns due to the severity of fire damage or due to too many conflicting variables that could be attributed to more than one cause. So I say that because sometimes I assume we all know that there's limitations Maybe we can't answer every aspect of every part of a fire scene. As long as if you put undetermined, just to put why it's undetermined, like it could have either been a drop down and or it was in the path of a ventilation flow. Just be honest, because if you're not in a mixed trial, someone's going to challenge you on that and they can give the other reason for it. So that's why I put it. So next episode, I'm going to wrap all these together. And we'll just kind of walk through them and then how we use these to get back to like our area of origin and start using it for cause. But that was it for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeehaw. Yeehaw. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you got a word?

SPEAKER_01:

No, we're not doing a word. You're going over it all next week. Then we'll do a word.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, okay. Well, that's very good then.

SPEAKER_01:

Then we're done. All right. Well, yeehaw. That's our first episode back and we killed it.

SPEAKER_03:

We actually ran out of time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, you may have to trim down the game thing. I'm not sure if our listeners like it, but heck, we have a blast.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I've always heard that they like the dynamic and that they think it's fun, but if we get any hate...

SPEAKER_03:

We listen.

SPEAKER_01:

We listen, but we also are still going to do us. Yeah. But anyway, thanks for listening. Welcome back to the... in-person live episodes and we're excited to start recording these in real time but yeah

SPEAKER_03:

as we start to teach some of these AI classes and then the material has already gone through we'll start bringing them more into this podcast so you guys can use it as more of a research tool

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_03:

but We're still in the process of trying to switch this to video. What did you say? Would it be better for YouTube? What were

SPEAKER_01:

you talking about? Yeah, if we want video episodes where they can watch us, then... Yeah, YouTube would be best.

SPEAKER_03:

That's the key. We want to show you. I don't have to explain to you like, okay, in the search bar, there's a plus thing. You hit it and then there's agent mode. We'll just walk you through it. Plus, we have some cool stuff from like Firefox to we have Fulgurite from when Fulgurite, when the electricity hit the ground. So you guys can see what that is. That way, if you ever get challenged, like, yeah, I've actually seen it. Some old man on the podcast showed it to me.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, update on the newsletter.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I was like, what?

SPEAKER_01:

I did not realize how difficult it is to... coordinate a newsletter I now writing it that's not going to be the hard part the hard part is creating where all the emails are going to come in and we would be emailing it out to like you have to like have something like a MailChimp or something like that that does that, that you can create the newsletter in so that it's like integrated. But now that I have an agent.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you should get

SPEAKER_01:

an agent. Now that I have an agent, I'm going to look into it. And we can get a

SPEAKER_03:

website. So, you know, for all my classes, I make a website just for that class. And I'll upload all of the student material in there. And it's free. I just go, I make this

SPEAKER_01:

website. I just wanted us to have like an email list. where we could email it to them every week. Oh, I see what you're saying. Or every two

SPEAKER_03:

weeks. So it's pushed to them. They don't have to come seek it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I mean, but the easy way would, we could just throw it on our website.

SPEAKER_03:

These people are so busy. Yeah. It's not sitting in front of

SPEAKER_01:

them. We're trying to bring it to you. But we'll see. I'm working on it. I just wanted to let you know that that wasn't a false promise. I am working on that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. When you said that, I'm like, you go because I have nothing to do with that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I am working on it. All right. Well, okay. We'll see you guys in two weeks.

SPEAKER_03:

All right. Thank you, guys. All

SPEAKER_01:

right. And bye.

SPEAKER_00:

Disclaimer, the views, opinions, and information expressed in this podcast are those of the individual hosts and guests only, and do not necessarily represent the official positions or views of any organizations or companies with which we are affiliated. While we strive to provide accurate and up-to-date information, this content is primarily for informational and entertainment purposes.