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S1.E1 | Ayesis Clay: Performing at the Intersection of Arts and Education

• Thembi Duncan • Season 1 • Episode 1

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S1.E1.

Join host Thembi Duncan as she sits down for the very first episode of KeyBARD with Ayesis Clay, a distinguished educator, theatre practitioner, and nationally sought-after keynote speaker.

Ayesis shares her insights on the creative process, working with incarcerated youth, the biggest challenges of the US education system, and her unique approach to professional development, the Reignite Leadership Mastermind and School Development Series.  

Educators, artists, and other smart people will enjoy this thought-provoking exploration of the intersection between the arts, education, and social impact!

Want to be a guest on KeyBARD? Send Thembi a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1740803399472257afce75768

KeyBARD is produced, written, and hosted by Thembi Duncan.
Theme music by Sycho Sid.

Listen and Connect:

Thembi: Hello, hello, and welcome to KeyBARD. I'm Thembi Duncan and today I am so excited to be speaking with theater artist, arts integration specialist, and overall Renaissance woman, Ayesis Clay. So let me tell you a little bit about her before we get started. 

Ayesis Clay is a distinguished educator, theatre practitioner, and nationally sought-after keynote speaker. Her critically acclaimed keynote has been delivered in schools across the United States, has been seen on the stage of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, DC, and served as the opening address for the 2022 Educational Theatre Association’s National Teaching Conference in Los Angeles, California.

With over 20 years in education, she has written and developed curricula for public school systems, the Maryland Department of Juvenile Services, and many educational theatre companies. She has held school and district leadership positions, including department chairperson, Mentor Teacher, Co-Chairperson for the Prince George’s County Public Schools Theatre Advisory Board, and Co-Founder and Co-Director for the PGCPS Honors Theatre Ensemble. 

Through her residencies and professional development series, Ayesis provides creative and transformative Emotional Intelligence and Resiliency support for schools, leading to an increase in teacher satisfaction, retention, and student engagement. She continues to strive for an increased spotlight on educators’ emotional wellness and how creative reflection can serve as a catalyst for change on school campuses. 

Ayesis’ superpowers are connection and empathy. Welcome, Ayesis!

Ayesis: Thank you, thank you, Thembi. Thank you for having me. I have been looking forward to this conversation all week.

Thembi: I'm so glad that you're here. I'm so glad. Okay, let's jump in, okay?

Ayesis: Cool.

Thembi: So, you’re experienced in acting, directing, teaching, writing, producing, stage managing…and you're an arts integration specialist. Where did this incredible journey begin for you? 

Ayesis:  Ah, where it began, honestly - Hertford County, North Carolina. It began in Ahoskie, North Carolina, which is where I'm from. It's a very rural town in northeastern North Carolina. And it was there that, you know, when I sit down and I think about the roots of where the work that I do now came from, looking back at the educators that poured into me in Hertford County High School and Hertford County Middle School, C.S. Brown Elementary School, and then also looking at the artistic experiences that were available to me during that time. 

A lot of times when we think about rural communities, we don't necessarily think about having the artistic opportunities as we do in larger cities and metropolitan areas. But I always think back to the times when people would book me. I didn't use the word "book" back then, but they would call my mama and they would say, “Can she do that poem by Nikki Giovanni?” or “Can she do a poem by blah-blah-blah?” “Can she create a dance for this meeting that we're having?” “This school board meeting?” “We want to show talent from students.” 

It started there, in church and civic organizations and with my mom's support and push to get into those things. So I think that, I guess, in a nutshell, that's where it started. Of course, the journey has taken me so many different places since then, but that's where it started. 

Thembi: So it sounds like you had a lot of adults who cared about you and poured into you from an early age that led to you taking this route in your life.

Ayesis: Indeed, indeed. And I will say this, I will always give credit to my mother, Veronica Freeman Rice. I will give credit to her because I was not your normal child and I didn’t want your normal things, you know? But she really poured into me and really supported the things that I wanted to do. I remember very, very vividly. I went to college at Howard University. I started college at Howard University as a biology major. The whole idea was that I would be a veterinarian, I would be a doctor. A vet. And after my first semester at Howard in my biology classes, I wandered into the theatre building. And I was like, “I'm not in the right place…I'm not in the right place.” And I started changing my major in December without my mom's—you know, she didn’t know. And when I told her in January, after taking a second and being like, “That's not the plan,” she was so supportive. So it's always been adults, whether it was teachers at Hertford County High School that put me on the path of Governor School and the School of Science and Math, whether it was my history teacher who listened to me, which – a lot of the way that I teach now is steeped in how I was treated as a student by people like Jesse Dickens by— you know, so yes, the short answer is yes. Adults poured into me not just artistically, but just believing in the dreams that I manifested or that I thought about.

Thembi: That's beautiful. Let's talk about your work as an actress. You had this incredible foundation of people who poured to you and believed in you as a person, as a performer and supported you when you changed your mind about what you wanted to do. So you started work as an actress. How did you go about that work? Like, how, as an actress, do you go about developing different characters for the stage?

Ayesis: Observation. It is always based in observation for me. When I first see the script, when I first read the script, the characters start coming alive for me, and I start seeing parallels between people that I know and people that I've met over the years or seen, or, you know, a person I saw at the bus stop, and then I take a conglomerate of all of these people and use bits and pieces of that to create – as well as, of course, the written word that’s there, what’s given to me by the playwright – to create this piece. I've always – this is going to sound funny, but I've always kind of lived in make-believe, even as a child. I am a huge reader of fantasy. I love fantasy novels, fantasy books, fantasy movies. And so, taking bits and pieces and recreating this larger-than-life character – recreating – has always been very interesting to me.

Thembi: Is it safe to say that no one was surprised when you became an actress? 

Ayesis: That is very safe to say. I can say even though my mother was like, “Uhh, that's not the plan.” In that second breath, she was like, “Yeah, I can see it…I can see it.” No one was surprised that this was the path that I was going to take, even though, you know, like in high school I was saying that I had attended the School of Science and Math, the North Carolina School of Science and Math, which is not a boarding school, but it's kind of like a public boarding school for students who test high in science and math. And so when I tell people, like, yeah, I was kind of a nerd in high school – a science nerd, and they see me now, they're like, “Oh, wow, why didn't you become a doctor?” “Why didn't you become a scientist?” And my answer is always “Because that's not my calling.” 

Just because you are good at something and just because, you know, it's something that it doesn't take a whole lot of heavy lifting for you to understand, that doesn't mean that's what you're supposed to do for the rest of your life. And I didn't come alive, you know, with science, the way that acting and the theatre world turns me on and gets me excited. It's that element of telling stories, that element of – and this is so cliché – but that element of putting that mirror in front of people and getting them to think about themselves and their lives, and seeing the people that they know reflected back at them, and the situations that they have been in, or have witnessed, reflected back so that they can actually process without being inside of it.

Thembi: So, I hear your passion about the work that you do and how you’ve connected with that passion through acting. Given that passion, where does the challenge come in? What are the most challenging experiences you’ve had? For instance, what’s the most challenging role that you’ve ever experienced as an actress?

Ayesis: Hands down, it was Bessie Delany in Having Our Say. That was the hardest character to bring to life for me. So for those who aren't familiar with Having Our Say: The Delany Sisters' First 100 Years, the play is just what it says. It's about the two sisters, and they are over 100 years old, and they're sitting in their house having a conversation, talking about the things that have transpired over those 100 years. And so I am not 100 years old, I am not even half. So it was a challenge to step into those shoes, and I wanted because these women are real, because these women are real Black women who’ve lived, and walked, and loved, and had their hearts broken, I wanted to make sure that I did Bessie right – I did right by her. 

And so, that role took so much research. I talked about looking and observing people around me and pulling into that. I wasn't pulling from the oldest of the elders in my family, but there were pieces of my Aunt Charlene. There were pieces of my Aunt Pudding, you know, that I could see made a connection between them and Bessie – Miss Bessie Delaney. And so, yeah, that was tough. Tough physically, getting into her shoes and her body and her skin. And you know, what does it feel like when you're 100 years old and you're getting up out of a chair, even though they were getting around by themselves very well. But what does that feel like? What is it? Is there weight to that, to living 100 years? Is there beauty in living 100 years? And it was “Yes” to both.

Thembi: Some people might be surprised to hear that because I think a lot of people who are not in theater don't realize how much research and work has to be put into that process, so I appreciate you talking about that a little bit. 

Ayesis: I also – you know, I'm glad you said that, and I'm glad you pointed that out again, because yes, in order to be an actor who takes their role – not just an actor –  just to be in this business, to be in this art form, there's a lot of research that has to be done because we are mirroring humanity, you know, we are. Even the most fantastical pieces that we do, mirror humanity. And so if we are going to get to the truth of things, then we have to not just go off of our imagination solely, it has to be rooted in truth. 

Thembi: And that puts you in an interesting position because you're also a director. 

Ayesis: Yeah…

Thembi: And so, you're an actor…when you're directing, what's your approach to bringing the best out of actors, and designers, and all the people you have to work with to make a theatre production happen? 

Ayesis: Empowering them. Empowering their imagination. So, I'm going to kind of not circumvent this, but I'm going to give you a little bit about my background. So I was a theatre teacher for many, many years. And if anyone has been a theatre teacher for a high school before, a lot of times you are it. You are producer, director, costume designer – you’re it, you do it all. And so that kind of stunted my growth a little bit before I started doing it professionally. Because again, it's all me, it's all my imagination, all my thoughts. So when I started directing and working in the professional theatre and seeing how many brilliant minds are in this space, that are trained in different things, a light bulb came on with me that I'm sure happens with many people in the beginning of their career working with other artists – is this idea that we're better together. My idea, expounded upon, is so much better than what it was in the beginning. And so, getting them to play and to allow their imaginations – and again, that word – empowering them to take the kernel and the idea, this directorial idea that I have, and that we're going to move towards, and then create and play inside of that. 

I think that is the biggest thing that I lean in when I'm directing, is this idea of play, this idea and not play in the sense of we're doing a play, but of playing and not losing our sense of childhood imagination as we create.

Thembi: Adding another layer onto that, you're also a playwright. So, now I'd like to know, have you ever directed your own work? So have you ever taken your own work as a playwright, and directed that, and what was that like? 

Ayesis: I'm going to be very, very honest. It is not my favorite thing at all. I am not a fan. I would not suggest. (Laughs.) It's difficult. I know that there is a beauty in, as a playwright, having your words sit on their own, and then having someone's beautiful, brilliant, imaginative mind take those words and create. There's something amazing about that. And vice versa – of taking someone's well-crafted words and then seeing and creating on top of that. 

When I direct my own work, two things happen. The first thing is I'm super critical of myself in every step, which hinders creativity. That happens. I just directed a version of A Monster at the End of This Play, and I found myself – it was really, really hard to snap out of playwright mode and snap into directing mode. So, again, because I'm super critical…and then what happens is I want to change a line and then the actor in me is like, “You’d better not change that line on these people, they learned it this way.” So there's a constant war inside of me directing my own work. So I while I do it sometimes, I'm not a fan.

Thembi: That's interesting. I would be curious what your motivation is to tell a particular story as a playwright when all these pieces connect. You're an actor, a director, a playwright, and you sit down at your computer to get started on a piece, what's driving you to tell the story? 

Ayesis: Oh, that’s a really good question. When I sit down to tell a story, director Ayesis and actor Ayesis never, never come into play. Usually, it's from something that I'm going through right now or something that I've just experienced, or just am on the other side of. For example, I wrote a play about letting go as a mother, and what does that look like when your children graduate from high school and graduate from college and, you know, get married or move away? And that was because I was in the midst of that, and I was struggling with what that looks like and what that feels like. And then it came to me that motherhood is a million tiny ways of letting go, from the moment that they are birthed. From the moment you let them go. For nine months or so, it's just you and them, and you're all that they know. And then from that point on…and that piece had a, as you can probably tell, a decidedly melancholy tone to it. But again, that's where I was at the moment. And so when I'm telling a particular story, when I decide to write about something, it's generally based in something that's weighing on my heart at the time.

I will say this though, I do a writing workshop with educators looking at the experiences that they've been through. And I talk a lot about writing from inside of it versus writing from on top of it, and the differences between that. And so I find that the things that I write when I'm writing from inside of it, like literally, I have not healed from it yet…those things don't generally make it to public consumption. Unless, once I'm healed and then I go back to it, then I can generally produce a play that is not melancholy and not, so full of angst, if you will. So, yeah, it has to be something that is on my mind, but it has to also be something that I can separate a little bit from, in order to write a well-written play. 

Thembi: So, it sounds like there's a combination of what you're pulling from life, and how you're being motivated and inspired to tell the story. But then with the craft itself, is that what you're saying? That there's that craft piece that you have to make sure you're crafting the play well…okay, well, you've written, yeah, you've written Standing On the Edge, Sculpting Clay or How I Became the Mother of Unicorns, which I believe is what you just referenced there. And The Monster at the End of This Play, which you talked about, and other pieces as well. And some of these plays are one-woman shows and other pieces are with a full cast, full ensemble. So how do you approach that process? Are you different when you're crafting a solo performance versus a full ensemble piece? Or do you even know what it is as you start? 

Ayesis: Generally, I do know what it is. Sculpting Clay or How I Became the Mother of Unicorns is a one-woman show, and when it first started, I grappled with having other characters, other characters in the play. But very, very quickly I realized that even if I do have other characters, that they need to be played by me. And that it was a one-woman show. The other shows Standing on the Edge, The Monster at the End of This Play, A Million Tiny Ways. They always were meant to be ensemble pieces. So when I start, yes, I generally know. I generally know. Now, as far as the creative process between the two, solo work is decidedly harder for me. Decidedly harder. The ensemble pieces, dialogue, a character says something and then another character responds. And it's easier to build off of that and to build the creative structure, the playwriting structure off of that.

With solo performance, it's a little bit difficult, especially with that one. That one was a trial to write because when I was writing it and just like I said, I just talked about writing from inside of it versus on top of it. When I first started writing it, I was square in the middle of it, square in the middle of it and still feeling the effects of vicarious trauma, a little bit of compassion fatigue at the time as well. My heart hadn't healed. And so those first drafts were like… (Laughs.) I would go back and I read them, and it's tough to read. Whereas with Standing on the Edge, and Monster, and Million Tiny Ways, it's not as difficult to read, even though I'm still dealing with issues that were very prevalent on my mind at the time. It just wasn't – it's not as hard to read them, early drafts.

Thembi: You brought up themes including letting go. What are some other themes that find their way through your writing? 

Ayesis: Well, one of the things – and I didn’t realize this at the time, I didn’t realize this, probably until you asked the question – a lot of my pieces have a fantasy element to it. And I grew up on fantasy, I still ingest fantasy, and so it has a bit of fantasy in all of them, but also, I think the biggest one is confronting the monsters in our lives and what that monster looks like. 

Whether that monster is fear, fear of letting go as in Million Tiny Ways. Whether that monster is the unknown, in The Monster at the End of This Play. Whether it is the actual monsters of bullying and super-unattainable high expectations from parents and adults, like in Standing on the Edge, it's always this idea of confronting the monsters in our lives and being victorious in the end.

Thembi: Fighting monsters. Metaphorical monsters and real-life monsters, maybe sometimes that are right in front of you, right?

Ayesis:  Absolutely. Absolutely. The solo show is probably the show, the play that I leaned into fantasy the heaviest, because there is a dual journey that happens inside of the show. So you see this young woman who pretty much falls backward into being a teacher, although goes into it kicking and screaming, not really wanting to be a teacher, but needing a job. And we follow her path into becoming consumed with that job, right? So that's one level of the play. The other level of the play is the same character who sees herself as a hero, a heroine in her journey. And so it takes on this hero's journey where she has to fight. In her mind, she makes them into dragons and trolls and all these things, and we realize that the realistic dragons that she has to face, or she feels like she has to face inside of the classroom. And it's not the students, it's the preparing them for an unforgiving world, and the weight of what that looks like, and having that kind of strapped to her back when this wasn't even something that she wanted to do in the first place, but now she can't see herself outside of it at all. 

Thembi: Wow, using fantasy to navigate very real, very serious issues, that's a powerful approach to creativity. You've been a classroom educator. You talk about, you talked about that already, but you mentioned that there's a teacher in your writing as well, but you've also served as a teaching artist. Can you talk about what the differences and similarities are between classroom teaching and being a teaching artist?

Ayesis: Yes, yes. So my work as a classroom-based teacher was over – I use the word was, but I still am an adjunct professor – but my work as a classroom educator allows me to really get to know the students for longer spells of time. When I go into schools or into organizations as a teaching artist, generally it’s anywhere from a day to the longest residency is about nine weeks, and so while I'm able to get to know – especially for the longer residencies, get to know the students. As a classroom educator, you are privy, if that's the word, to them, on a deeper, deeper basis. 

When I was teaching in high school, I taught in a program that was a four-year program, and so I got the incredible privilege of seeing them come in as freshmen, and then seeing that whole transformation between freshman year and senior year, and beyond. And so that's the one thing that I miss in teaching artistry is being able to see that transformation on a larger scale. You get to see that transformation inside of the container that you're teaching, but you don't get to see how they grow as adolescents and young adults. That's really the biggest difference.

The similarities between the two are honestly the passion for what you're teaching. The passion for what you're teaching. Most teaching artists come in and they teach what they love. You have theatre teaching artists, or visual artists or music, and they have a true passion for it. And so, when you're talking specifically about arts-based educators, I mean, I think I'm sure it applies to English, and math, and science, and it should, that passion should still be there, but because I'm an arts teacher, I'm going to speak from what I know. So as an arts teacher, you also bring that passion, and you just have to work a little harder to make sure that that passion stays on fire through the challenges that you have to navigate through the school system as a classroom-based educator. 

Thembi: Is there a connection to that with trauma? I mean, what does it mean to have a trauma-sensitive approach to your work as a teaching artist or even as a classroom educator?

Ayesis: Yeah, I think this is inherent, or again, I should say, it should be inherent in theater education. The whole basis of what we teach is stepping in other people's shoes and being able to empathize. And so, this idea of trauma-sensitive approaches to education, I feel like this has really gotten traction over the past few years, but I feel like as arts educators, we've been doing it for years. This is what we do. There is a natural connection between trauma-sensitive teaching and the arts. Arts-based learning. So at its core, it's just about honoring the human in front of you, while you honor the human in yourself, at its core. Now of course, you know there are other things that go into it but knowing that this human has had experiences just like you have had experiences that may bring things back up to the to the surface.

I remember one time working on a show…and I talk about working on things from the inside versus on top of it…I was playing this role in college and the character was dealing with some things that I was dealing with at the time as well. The director didn't know any of that, Nobody knew that. And I remember very vividly in rehearsal breaking all the way down because it hit a little closer to home than – it hit really close to home, a line that was said. And I remember the director – and this was before this whole term trauma informed teaching was a thing many years ago. I remember the professor stopping rehearsal and she didn't say, “Use it.” She said, “Do you need a minute?” And I said, “Yes.” And we took a break, and she came out and she sat beside me in the hallway. She didn't say a word. She just sat beside me and held space for that five, maybe 10-minute break. And just knowing that she was honoring the fact that I needed a break and that she was going to sit with me through it – it meant the world. And so, I think it really goes back to empathy, you know? Whether you are a teaching artist, whether you are and arts-based teacher, whether you are teaching physics, honoring the person in front of you and holding onto the empathy that makes us human. 

Thembi: Empathy is something that is – we all have the capability to use it, but it seems like we aren't taught to practice it in a specific way. So if what you're saying is that trauma sensitive work, does that include just sort of an uncovering of our ability to share empathy? On top of the training and the formality of it?

Ayesis: Absolutely, absolutely. Again, I am boiling trauma sensitive work to, like, it's foundational – of course there's so much more that goes inside of it, but at its core, it's literally honoring the human and being empathetic to that person and learning how – or relearning how to see people for who they are, and being able to imagine what this may feel like for them without taking on the heaviness of actually feeling it, but imagining like this person is going through something, or this person may be going through something, so I'm going to practice kindness. The same kindness that I would want. 

Thembi: What does it mean to be an arts integration specialist? 

Ayesis: So, an arts integration specialist is someone who has gone through a process of learning or relearning how to teach. Now what does that look like? Arts integration is an approach to teaching where students construct and demonstrate understanding of a subject through an art form. But I'm super biased when it comes to this because when you pair learning – learning math, learning science, learning English, with an art form, the learning deepens, the experience deepens for the student. And having been on the side of seeing this happen with students, seeing this light bulb moment that just was a supernova type light bulb happened when they got an opportunity to use their creativity, and to learn something creative, while learning math or while learning you know physics or whatever the case may be. I feel like the entire school system across the United States, across the world should be using this model, so I'm very, very biased when it comes to using arts integration to deepen learning and to engage students in a real way with both things. 

So I do want to say this – because a lot of times teachers think that they are integrating arts when – so they'll have, like, a picture of anatomical heart, and then they will ask the students to color it and they will think that that's integrating the arts, integrating visual arts. That is not integrating visual arts. That's using arts as a vehicle, but it's not integrating it. Integrating it would be, while you're teaching about the anatomical heart, also teaching about color theory, or also teaching about color theory and the form of mixing colors, what that does, and how to do that, mixing mediums in art and visual art. So it's actually teaching the art form, while teaching the other thing as well.

Thembi: So, you're certified in Mental Health First Aid.  What is Mental Health First Aid, and why is that important? 

Ayesis: Yeah, so Mental Health First Aid is about the recovery and resilience of people. That's the nuts and bolts of it. This belief that people experiencing challenges, mental health challenges, can and do get better every day. So when I say mental health challenges, a lot of times people think of the far end of the spectrum where people may be at risk of suicide or they may, you know, on the far end of the spectrum. But everyone has mental health, just like everyone has physical health, and Mental Health First Aid helps people stay in the green, if you will. And if they are inching towards the yellow or the red, then helping them apply interventions or helping them through that, helping them find the best possible solution for them. Because a lot of times when we are in our darkest hours, our darkest spaces, we don't know where to look for help. We don't know the things to do. And those around us may not know the things to say. We don't know what to say. We don't know what to do. We don't know how to help. Sometimes the things that we say make things worse, and so Mental Health First Aid is really about – it goes right back to what we were talking about before – the trauma informed work of seeing the human in front of you and having the tools to empathize with them and help them see their way out of whatever they're experiencing. 

Thembi: You've worked with a variety of populations as a teaching artist and as an educator, including incarcerated children. What did you learn from working with young people in the US correctional system? 

Ayesis: I learned a lot, Thembi, I learned a lot. My first teaching job was actually at Waxter Youth Facility, and then it was at Cheltenham Youth Facility. And I did not know what I was walking into. I had no clue. And what I realized when I got there was that these young people, while they may have committed really bad things and some of them, you know, while they had committed crimes, they were still children. They were still children who hadn't been given the opportunity to experience life the way I experienced life. I'll say that. 

There was a huge divide when I first started working because this was very soon after I had moved up to the Washington DC area from North Carolina. So here I am, this country girl, real fresh, real green, and supporting students who were from inner city Baltimore or inner-city DC. From communities that were in crisis in a way that I had not seen before. And that was intimidating at first. Not that I was scared of the kids. It was like, What do I say to them? What do I say to these students? What do I possibly have to give them to help while they're here? Either to help them learn this thing, or to connect more to their humanity. Connect more to their, you know, fellow humans. 

And that's where my love for teaching began, is literally in the halls of Cheltenham Youth Facility. I had not one bit of pedagogy under my belt. I had not taken one education class. I was in the process of taking classes at the time, but I wasn't done when I first started, obviously, and so I didn't know anything. But I did know through my theatre training how to connect to people. I did know how to step in people's shoes, you know, to listen, to interact. And that became my superpower, this power of connecting with them and seeing them and truly seeing them. Not what they did, but them. Under all of this. All the fear, all the anger, all of the apathy. Seeing them and being able to talk to that. And so I learned again, like I said, that they were children. They were children. And I also learned that our system continuously fails them. Continuously. The amount of recidivism in that space, the revolving door. 

It's real easy to say, “Well, stop committing crimes.” Yeah, yeah, true. But also…what's changed in their home life? What's changed in their community? Have they been given more resources? And that's not saying that, you know, I agree with the crimes, because I absolutely do not. But also, what are we doing to change this? And ultimately that's what took me out of the juvenile justice system, is that revolving door. And then those few times when the door didn't revolve, and it wasn't because they were reformed, or they chose a better path. It was because they were taken by the streets. They were no longer with us. And I couldn't. My heart… Which laid the groundwork for the work that I do now with educators. 

Thembi: That's heartbreaking…and that's so powerful. I think back to when you talked about how much people poured into you as a little girl, and how that led to your success. And I think about how you said that you would later in your life encounter young people who, maybe in their lives they didn't have people who poured into them, and then they ended up in the system that, like you said, failed them. And I love that you were able to see beyond the acts that they committed and to see them as children, to see them as human and use that superpower of empathy to develop with them. But it's the most powerful that you understood when it was time to release that work and engage in your own self-care and shift into a different arena. And I think that that's even a little bit of foreshadowing for what we'll talk about shortly in terms of the work that you do now, and how you help people with compassion fatigue and other such things. 

But before we get to that, I'd love to find out just overall… again, you've got so many talents and you have brilliantly figured out how to be able to do all these different things. Instead of being a scientist, or a doctor, or a lawyer, you are twelve different things that you’re passionate about, which is very interesting and more complex. You know, I think a lot of people will compare the arts to other fields, and – you know, yeah, you’re happy and you’re doing what you love, but you work very hard. So how do the various roles that you have complement each other? Where do they intersect, and does it get any easier?

Ayesis: It never gets easier. It literally never gets easier. Well, I will say this, I've found that I need to pause, because if not, then I feel like I'm being torn. But at the kernel of all of this, I guess, the intersection of the work that I do lies in – I feel like I'm repeating myself – but I feel like it lies in empathy. I feel like it lies in my need to understand people, to help people, to create a connection with people. It all lies inside of that, inside of who I am, and the person that I strive to be daily, you know, is that person that people can say, “She sees me. She sees me when other people may not see me, and I feel comfortable when she's around. I feel comfortable because I know at the heart of this there's love.” So I think if I had to say what an intersection of my work would be, because I do lots of things. A lot of it is – it's all either arts or education, or a mix of the two. But even still, what connects Actor me to Mental Health First Aider me and it's that need to connect with people.

Thembi: You've developed a unique, proprietary professional development series for school administrators and classroom educators. What inspired you to create this and what can you tell us about it?

Ayesis: So I've created a professional development called the Reignite Series which has spun off into the Reignite Leadership Mastermind and School Development series. This professional development series speaks to emotional intelligence and resilience for educators. So you've heard a little bit about my story and how that came to be, and I think I kind of alluded to it when I was talking about my work in the juvenile detention facilities. One thing, though, is that when I left DJJ I didn't leave to heal, and I didn't heal. I left to run away. I needed to run away, like, my heart could not take it anymore. 

And so I jumped straight from there to what I like to call the other end of the spectrum, or what I thought was the other end of the spectrum, to a program where students had to audition to get into the program. So they had to audition to get into these arts programs. They were bussed from all over the county to go to the school and this program, and I shut the door. Or what I thought I shut the door on the traumas that I had experienced, and the young people that I had met during that time. What I found, though, is that you can only bury things for so long, and that children are children and people are people. And regardless of whether they came from the poorest areas of DC or inner-city Baltimore, or whether they come from the more affluent areas of Mitchellville or Bowie or wherever, they were still experiencing trauma. And they were still experiencing things that were hurting them. 

And because of my need to want to connect, because of my superpower of empathy, I was that teacher that they gravitated to when they were self-harming or when they had suicide ideation thoughts, or thoughts of suicide ideation. Or any of the many, many things that happened in the school system with many of my students. 

And so, because that vicarious trauma was never healed, it was compounded on, to the point where I began developing anxiety, depression and all these things. And I called it burnout, as teachers do. I called it burnout. But it wasn't until I started doing the research and created my business, Sculpted Clay Productions, that I realized that what I was experiencing was unfortunately common with a lot of teachers who service communities in crisis.

There are no – or there were no supports for educators around that. If something happens at the school, what happens? Over the intercom the principal, or school leader, or counselor, or whoever will come and say, “This has happened, and grief counselors will be available to you should you need them.” And students, at any moment when they are dealing with these things, they can raise their hand during class and they can say, “Ms. Clay, I’m not doing so well. Can I get a note to the school counselor?” And sure enough, of course write a note. They go to the school counselor. They get the support that they need in real time. Teachers don't get that, because the work never stops. Even during their planning period, the work never stops. And so what happens is we compound, and we push down, and compound, and compound. And this is even more of a problem when you're talking about school leadership because they're at the level that they're at. It's compounded because they're leading the school, not just this one class. Or these, you know, these four or five, however many classes that they have. 

And so you just push it down, push it down, push it down, push it down, until it comes bubbling up in one way or the other. And usually it either comes up in compassion fatigue or vicarious trauma. And it's just telling, saying a lot, but it comes up in in one of those two ways.

And because of my need to help, and my want to truly help, my love of education, and my love of educators and children, I developed this program to help school leaders and to help teachers reconnect with who they are. Reconnect with their most passionate self, so that we can truly reach and teach students. Because you can't do that if you are dealing with compassion fatigue and vicarious trauma. You can't effectively do that. 

Thembi: You've talked about empathy that drives you toward creating art, building a character, working with actors, and designers, and students, and educators, and administrators. All of this empathy that drives you. Now, we just had a huge health crisis over the past few years: COVID-19. Are we talking enough about that and the effects that it has on the experiences of administrators and educators? What's missing from that conversation? 

Ayesis: Yeah, not really. Not really. When we were inside of it, teachers were superheroes – which I hate that title. I really do. I talk about that and debunk that often in my PDs, but we were rock stars, you know, during it, because everyone was home, and it was very challenging for parents, and it just was – we were rock stars. 

We missed a crucial and vital opportunity to fix what was already broken. We missed it. When everything had to shut down, that was our opportunity to take another look at how we were doing things in our educational system in the United States and make some changes. Because even before COVID-19, let's be real clear, there were issues. The cracks were starting to get wider and wider, and it was already problems. COVID-19 just blew all of those, like, put a bomb inside of the crack and now it's a crater. A huge crater.

So we aren't talking about what we learned about how students learn. We're not talking about, at least not enough, in my opinion, the mental health challenges that our educators faced, and are facing now, as a result of two years essentially of – I wouldn't say missed education but slowed education. We're not talking about the mental health challenges of our teachers and our school leaders as people. The fear that they felt, the fear they continue to feel because of that. You know, we are not out of COVID-19. We like to pretend we are, but it's still here. 

My husband, who's also an educator for many, many years – we talk about it all the time. When we left the school system, we became the healthiest we had ever been. (Laughs.) We became the healthiest we had ever been when we were teaching, because schools are like little Petri dishes. And every cold, every stomach virus, anything that comes through school runs like wildfire through the campus. We know these things. 

And so when we have something as life-threatening in a lot of cases as COVID-19, that's terrifying to people who already have underlying conditions as teachers. It's terrifying for us as teachers knowing that we have students in our classes who have these underlying conditions. And so we're not talking about the fear. We're not talking about it or doing anything about what that does to our mental health. and what that does to our emotional health.

Thembi: You do work with teachers and administrators on healing and wellness. What does a healed school community look like? Can you paint that picture for us?

Ayesis: I love this question. A healed school community looks like everyone who’s there is empowered to be their authentic self. And let me tell you what that looks like. That looks like the science teacher who is so passionate and really geeks out in their spare time with aerodynamics, or you know, they love planes or whatever. Bringing that enthusiasm to the classroom or bringing that enthusiasm to the campus and leading the aerodynamics group. Or it's the school leader who always dresses fly and that's a part of who they are – they love fashion. Bringing that authentically to the classroom, or to the school space, where they are connecting with our young people who also have a passion for that and creating these connections. These honest, authentic connections. Because when we authentically connect to each other, whether it's student to student or student to staff, now we have created this where it's not just right for learning, but it's right for joyful learning. 

I always bring this back to – I mentioned him earlier, Jesse Dickens. Taught history. Before him, I hated history. I hated history with a passion. But Mr. Jesse Dickens had a way of teaching history, because he was so passionate about it. I mean, he was like, on fire about history and that is so contagious. So a healed school community, first and foremost, looks like reconnecting first, as adults, to our authentic selves.

I had a conversation with a principal recently, and he said he had forgotten what he liked. He didn't know who he was outside of being a principal, and a father, and a husband. He didn't know anymore. How can we stand in front of young people and inspire them to learn from us, or stand in front of our staff as school leaders and inspire them, if we’ve forgotten who we are, you know? 

And so it starts there. And then, because we have connected to our authentic selves, and we are now authentically connecting to others, now this empathy comes through. Now we can see when that irate parent – and it doesn't even just extend to the teachers and the students. We're talking about a healed school community also includes healed parenting. Now when a when a parent is upset, they're not coming to the to the school with just like hellfire and brimstone. You know, “It's everybody's fault except my child.” They're upset, yes, but now I can talk to you like a human. I'm still mad, but now let's talk as humans and let's talk as people, because I know you see me. I know you as a school leader, sees me. You see my child, for a human. And so it starts there. 

A healed school community is full of joy. And that doesn't mean it's happy every day, because, you know, humans aren't happy every day, but it's a joyful place where people feel safe to learn, to explore.

Thembi: That’s an incredible vision, and it seems like you’re working toward that with your work with administrators, and educators, and students, and families,   and everyone involved in school communities. So, I know that it's going to take a lot to get there. What is at stake if we don't address the burnout? If we don't address the wellness, the health, of the administrators and teachers and beyond?

Ayesis: Then we lose the student, point blank. Now, not only do we use lose the student, we lose rockstar administrators. We lose unicorn teachers – that's what I call the teachers who are passionate about the work that they do. If we don't address the emotional health of our school leaders and our teachers, our schools are going to turn into places that no one wants to come. Our truancy levels skyrocket. I mean, if the teachers and administrators don't want to be there, of course the student doesn't want to be there. Of course. Why? Why would I? You don't even want to be here.

If we don't address the emotional resilience and intelligence of our educators and our educators at large – and when I say educators at large, I'm talking about support staff too. So not just instructional staff, but I'm talking front office, I'm talking your custodial staff, literally everybody on campus. If we don't address those things, not only is it affecting the school, it is affecting our future society. We're creating people, we're creating a society or a generation of people who have lost touch with their humanity. And it sounds really, like, like far-fetched, but it's really not. 

If educators and teachers are burning out and they are leaving, or are staying and are a shell of themselves, how are our young people going to learn how to…how to deal with the challenges of the world that they're going to face? I mean, of course, you can say, “Parents.” Yes, but look at how long they stay in school each day, versus how long that they’re home.

Parents are definitely first teachers, but school plays a huge part in the development of young people, and we’ve got to start looking at that. If we are not well, there's no way the system can be well. There's no way that our young people can be well. And we've just lost, you know, passionate educators. And I think that scares me the most. 

Thembi: I'm so glad that you're doing the work that you're doing, because it sounds like that's in direct opposition to these terrible losses that we're going to continue to experience if we don't address this, so thank you for that. 

What is next for you? You already do tons of things. I don't know if you want to do anything else, but I'm sure you have some upcoming projects. Let’s talk about it. 

Ayesis: Yeah, so right now I am onboarding and connecting with school leaders for the Reignite Leadership Mastermind and School Development Series which is a full year wrap-around. We've been talking a lot about schools and providing that support, and it does that. It's a full-year wrap-around for leaders and the instructional staff in order to make sure that we don't fall down that well, that very scary well that I just painted. I have that coming up. I am continuously touring the solo show Sculpting Clay, or How I Became Mother of Unicorns. And…yeah, that's what's happening right now.

Thembi: I love the way that you feed your passion into making change and doing something about the things that concern you. That is so powerful, and I think more people should think about that. How can you take the things that you already do very well, that you are already passionate about, and how can you use that to make change? There's just so many ways to do it, so I’m grateful that you're doing that.

Ayesis: Oh, thank you, thank you. Yeah, it’s – I'm at a point now, Thembi, where I can't see anything else. I can't do anything else. And I know you're like, we've painted this – I do a lot.

(Laughter.)

Thembi: You do a lot! You do a lot.

Ayesis: I didn’t realize when you lay it all out like that in black and white like, okay, I need a break. 

Thembi: Yeah, you need to take your own – you need to reignite yourself…

Ayesis: Well see, and that's the thing though, you know, this work does reignite me. Every time. Every show that I do, it lights a new fire. Every professional development that I give, it lights a new fire in me. So I'm blessed in that aspect, that the work does feed me emotionally, but yeah.

Thembi: So inspiring. So, thank you so much, Ayesis. I cannot tell you how grateful I am that you took the time to share your work with us, and I want to make sure that we come back and talk again later on down the line, because by then you will have founded ten other projects that you're doing, and we're going to want to update folks, okay? So you have to promise that you're going to come back and talk to us later. 

(Laughter.)

Ayesis: Of course.

Thembi: You promise? 

Ayesis: I promise.

Thembi: Okay, good, good. Thank you so much. Until next time. 

Ayesis: Until next time.

KeyBARD is produced, written, and hosted by Thembi Duncan. Theme music by Sycho Sid. Visit us on Instagram @Keybard_IG.

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Thembi Duncan

Host
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Ayesis Clay

Guest