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S1.E3 | Psalmayene 24: Exploring Identity and Experimenting with Theatrical Forms

• Thembi Duncan • Season 1 • Episode 3

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S1.E3.

Step into the world of playwright, director, and actor Psalmayene 24 as he shares insights into his unique creative process and the powerful themes that define his theatrical body of work.

We explore his seminal hip-hop theatre piece Free Jujube Brown!, discuss his reimagining of an iconic historical interaction between Richard Wright and James Baldwin in Les Deux Noirs, and reflect of several other dynamic works that he has written, directed, or performed in throughout his career. 

Don't miss this conversation about the essence of creativity, the exploration of identity, and the profound responsibility that artists bear in shaping our cultural landscape.

Want to be a guest on KeyBARD? Send Thembi a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1740803399472257afce75768

KeyBARD is produced, written, and hosted by Thembi Duncan.
Theme music by Sycho Sid.

Listen and Connect:

Thembi: Hello hello, and welcome to KeyBARD. This is Thembi and today, I’m so excited to be speaking with award-winning playwright, director, and actor Psalmayene 24. 

So, Psalmayene 24 is an award-winning playwright, director, actor, currently the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation Playwright in Residence at Mosaic Theater Company.

Playwriting credits include Monumental Travesties, Dear Mapel, and Les Deux Noirs at Mosaic Theater Company; Out of the Vineyard at Joe’s Movement Emporium; An Eloquent Fugitive Slave Flees to Ireland at Solas Nua; Free Jujube Brown! at The African Continuum Theatre Company; and Zomo the Rabbit: A Hip-Hop Creation Myth at Imagination Stage.

Directing credits include Tempestuous Elements at Arena Stage; Good Bones, Flow, and Pass Over at Studio Theatre; Necessary Sacrifices: A Radio Play at Ford’s Theatre; Native Son at Mosaic Theater Company; Word Becomes Flesh at Theater Alliance; and Cinderella: The Remix at Imagination Stage.

His plays, Les Deux Noirs and An Eloquent Fugitive Slave Flees to Ireland, are published by TRW Plays. His solo play, Free Jujube Brown!, is recognized as a seminal piece in hip-hop theatre and is published in the anthology, Plays from the Boom Box Galaxy (TCG). Acting credits include Ruined at Arena Stage, Dear Mapel at Mosaic Theater Company, and HBO’s The Wire. 

Psalm, as his colleagues call him, is the writer/director of the short film, The Freewheelin’ Insurgents, presented by Arena Stage. He is the recipient of a Helen Hayes Award for Outstanding Direction of a Play and has received the Imagination Award from Imagination Stage. He is a member of the Dramatists Guild of America, the Stage Directors and Choreographers Society, and Actors’ Equity Association. 

And you can catch up with him on Instagram at @psalmayene24. Welcome, Psalmayene!

Psalmayene 24: Thanks for having me, Thembi. Appreciate it.

Thembi: I'm so happy to see you, so happy to talk to you today. So let's just jump in. Let's start at the beginning of your artistic journey. What was the first art form that you remember experiencing?

Psalmayene 24: Dance. Dance is the first art form that I remember doing, and that's actually primarily how I identify myself. I identify as a dancer first and foremost. I mean, I was the young child, the kid at the parties, the family parties, dancing while all the adults would be watching. And then as I went to school, elementary and junior high school, I was part of the group of kids who would do like popping and waving. I mean this was like back when hip-hop was emerging. So that was like my entrée into hip-hop culture too, was really as a dancer. And then the other arts sort of followed after that, got into acting and performing and then eventually became a writer, and then eventually stumbled into directing. But yeah, dance is my first love. I mean, I still dance at home in the living room or whatever, but yeah, I'm a dancer, first and foremost.

Thembi: You grew up in Brooklyn, NY, right? 

Psalmayene 24: Yep, Yep. So—

Thembi: So, I was going to just ask, do you feel like the fact that hip-hop was born in the city of New York has something to do with your connection to that form?

Psalmayene 24: Oh, 100%. I mean, it's like, even before folks really started calling it hip-hop, it was just life. It was just creativity. I mean, just like riding the subways and seeing graffiti on the train, and then certainly in school, you know, banging out beats on lunchroom tables, and going to block parties and seeing not only kids dancing, but then seeing kids performing and then like, I mean, like, Whodini performed at a summer camp that I went to, like an elementary school. So it was just –

Thembi: That’s crazy. 

Psalmayene 24: Yeah, it was like, one of the counselors, like, knew one of the members and then they came and just, like, performed for the campers. And this was when they were like, big and, like, known. So of course the campers, you know, we went bananas, we lost our minds. 

But it was that kind of environment that I grew up in, so eventually when I started doing theatre, it seemed like a natural thing to then begin to merge, you know, hip-hop with theatre. So yeah, I was just kind of part of that first wave of hip-hop theatre artists who really were committed to exploring and experimenting with the combination of those two forms.

Thembi: You talk about merging hip-hop with theatre. So hip-hop is definitely a theme that comes through in your work, right? And sort of a lens that you use to see the world with. What other kinds of themes are emerging through your work that you see when you look back at your body of work?

Psalmayene 24: Yeah, identity. It's a big one. Blackness and what it means to be Black in America is a huge, you know, is an obsession of mine. I mean, it's something that I think about just about every day. I mean, as a Black man, moving through the world. I mean, Blackness seems to inform so much of how the world views and then tries to treat me, so that's something that I include in my work. And then just really this idea of moving outside of your current circumstances and sort of having a vision for something and then moving towards that vision, I think, is also a theme that's in my work, yeah.

Thembi: Okay, you're a playwright and a director, among many other things. Playwriting is a more solitary role than the role of directing. That's more collaborative. Can you talk a little bit about the artistic tools that you use as a playwright versus the ones that you put into play as a director?

Psalmayene 24: Yeah, yeah. So as a writer, certainly you're leaning on certain techniques of storytelling in terms of character, obstacles, and action, and you want to have some sort of arc to what you're writing. For me, there always needs to be some sort of personal connection to the story and to the materials so that I have the fuel to power me through the writing process. If I'm not invested in what I'm creating, then it's going to be kind of tough for me to finish writing a project. 

Now that I'm saying it, many of the tools are really the same when it comes to playwriting and directing. I mean, once you get in the rehearsal room in terms of directing, then you're dealing with other human beings, so you're dealing with the management, for lack of a better term, of people. And then you're really dealing with psychology also because ultimately you have to lead a team toward a particular goal and get everybody on the same page also.

One place, or one thing that's different about the two, I think, is like, how you problem-solve where when you're writing a play. I mean you can problem-solve on your own and you can literally sit down and solve problems inside your head. When it comes to directing, oftentimes you have to problem solve with other people and you have to be comfortable with confrontation. And that doesn't mean bad sort of confrontation or aggressive, because you have to be able to engage other people and not shy away from that.

So ultimately, I guess it boils down to like that solitary act of writing versus the more communal act of directing. Although as a director, I mean, early on in the process, you know, I love to do research for plays. So even as a director, I'll do research and then that part of the directing process is solitary. But then once you start to get into, design meetings and certainly rehearsals, you're dealing with folks, even in the audition process and choosing your team, choosing your ensemble of actors. You're in dialogue with these other people in various ways.

Thembi: I like that. I like how you broke down the differences and the similarities, how it just kind of flows together. And it sounds like from what you're saying in your process especially that it's not solitary for long. (Laughs)

Psalmayene 24: Right, that's right, yep. Yep. 

Thembi: Okay, so right now you're the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation playwright in residence at Mosaic Theater Company, yes?

Psalmayene 24: Yep.

Thembi: So what does it mean to be an artist in residence? How does that particular position at an arts institution or an educational institution – how does that contribute to your growth as an artist?

Psalmayene 24: Well, I mean, just in its most elemental state, it means that I get paid to write. I get paid to be an artist in the most distilled and essential sense. So I mean, with the residency now, I'm actually in my second term of the residency, so each term is three years, and you get a salary, you get health insurance, and more than anything else, you just get the time and the space to write and to think and to dream and to imagine. So oftentimes, I mean, that's what artists really need. Aside from funds, money to support yourself. Other than that, I think most of us really, really just need the pressure to be taken off so that we can come up with these creative and unique ideas and tell the stories that are really in our souls to tell.

So at its most basic, that's what I do, but more specifically, for each term, the theatre that each artist is in residence in, you know, in my case, it's Mosaic Theater. They have to produce at least one of your plays per season. So the first term they produced my solo play Dear Mapel. The second term they produced my play Monumental Travesties. And then they actually just produced a community project that I envisioned, which was the H Street Oral History Project, where the theater actually commissioned three other playwrights to write plays based off interviews that the playwrights did with people who live in Washington, DC along the H. Street corridor in 1968 during the unrest that happened after King's assassination. So we actually just closed out that festival and that reading of those three plays past weekend.

So, I mean, those are the types of things that I do in the residency and then it also gives me the freedom and flexibility to then do other projects. I direct quite a bit also, so baked into the residency is that time and knowledge that from time to time I'll also be doing other projects, whether that's directing or if a TV or film opportunity comes up, you know, that's also kind of structured in.

Thembi: Thank you for explaining that. I think a lot of people don't know what being an artist in residence entails, so I appreciate that explanation. I think it's really interesting that you used your opportunity to enhance the careers of other playwrights. So that's really incredible. 

All right, let's talk a little bit about some of your projects. I want to start with Free Jujube Brown!

Psalmayene 24: Oh, yeah!

Thembi: What led to the creation of that piece? 

Psalmayene 24: So…wow, you’re going back now! So, Free Jujube Brown! was created during a time when I was primarily acting, and honestly, I just wasn't really happy with – I wasn’t satisfied with the roles that were available for young black men my age at that time, so I figured I would just try writing. Instead of complaining, I thought to myself, “What can I do to actually empower myself?” So I created that solo play. And then that actually led to other writing opportunities, and then really led to me falling in love with writing. I mean, before then, I didn't really think of myself as a writer. Yeah, I just thought I would go ahead and give that a shot. And then, eventually, the writing opportunities led to directing. So things sort of organically snowballed from one thing to another. 

Thembi: That piece...in DC, New York, the United States, theatre world, is such an important benchmark, foundation, you know, cornerstone of hip-hop theatre and you when you say what led you to create it was you decided that there weren't enough roles for people like yourself, and you decided to create them. Now, how many times do we hear people say, you know, “This isn't right, that isn't right. I wish it were better.” What’s different about you that makes you go, “I don't like that, I'm going to do something about it." 

Psalmayene 24: Yeah, I think it's – honestly, I think it's my upbringing. My family's Jamaican, and I saw – My grandfather, Rest In Power, was a man who – he only had a sixth grade education, so he had to drop out of school in the sixth grade to help his family, to help support his family, and he eventually came to this country and made quite a good life for himself and for his family. Ended up owning a bunch of properties. And he tiled, but he also was a landlord, and he, you know, he was a photographer, so he kind of, jokingly, he fits into the Jamaican stereotype of having like – doing like a million things—

Thembi: All the jobs!

Psalmayene 24: All the jobs! But really, it's just doing what you have to do and not really complaining and not blaming anybody else. That's not to say that you're not aware that there are obstacles along the way, but you know that it's on you. We all have one life, so either you do it or it will not get done. So yeah, so I think that's one thing.

And then just like my creative spirit, in terms of just wanting to try creative things. So, writing really started out as a means to create a role for myself, but it was also fun. It was a different art form. So I said “Oh, well, I'll try that.” And then it also became about empowering my community, because then I realized, “Oh, like, when you write roles, then these are actually jobs for not only actors, but then when you write a play, someone has to direct it, so that's another job. And someone has to, you know – there are designers, so there are more jobs, and a theatre has to produce it.” So, it becomes really an opportunity for the community, too, so that I kind of started to look at writing in a different way and as sort of my contribution to the revolution and to the struggle, like that's what I can do. 

And then also just looking at writing as a way to bring people together. All people. As a Black man, I'm always thinking about my community, but then ultimately – I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood in Brooklyn. I grew up in Park Slope, and on my block, it's like across the street from me – Polish family. Up the street – African Americans. Down the street – Puerto Ricans. We had the drag queen also down the block, and then . African Americans down the street. Puerto Ricans, you know we have the drag queen also down the block and then you know Jewish, I mean – you know, Caribbean folks next door. So I saw, like the United Colors of Benetton. So that's really ultimately when I create a piece of theatre or any kind of art, I'm thinking about bringing together everyone, ultimately, even if the story that I'm telling is through a very specific Black lens.

Thembi: Okay, okay. Director, actor, playwright, job creator, community builder. Okay, I got it.

Psalmayene 24: Yep, Yep. (Laughs.)

Thembi: Les Deux Noirs. You reimagine an interaction between Richard Wright and James Baldwin. Can you talk about what led you to that, and how you approached the creation of this artistic moment that's based on a real-life relationship?  

Psalmayene 24: Yes. So, right before, I was actually directing a production of Native Son at Mosaic Theatre, and the artistic director then, Ari Roth, was looking for a piece to be in rep with that show. There was a piece that was scheduled to be in rep, but for whatever reason, that piece wasn't able to be in rep. It wasn't ready, or whatever. And then, Ari was asking me, “Hey, well, you're directing Native Son and you've been doing a bunch of research around that play. Would you be interested in writing sort of a piece that would run in rep? A companion piece to go with Native Son?” So I thought about it, and then, you know, I said, “Sure, why not?” You know, as if I didn't already have enough on my plate, because I was already directing one piece.

But in my research, I came across James Baldwin's criticism of Native Son in his book Notes of a Native Son, and I was really struck by what Baldwin had to say, and then just by his writing, and him as a person. So the idea for this play, which is a reimagining of a meeting between James Baldwin and Richard Wright at a cafe in Paris…I had stumbled across this article that describes this meeting, and then I used that as my launching pad to write that play. And then, I mean, it was just awesome just to really create that world and live in that world with these two titans of literature. In many ways they are like the fathers of all Black writers who come after them. So yeah, that's how that came about.

Thembi: You talk about examining a moment between titans of literature, but then I think about An Eloquent Fugitive Slave Flees to Ireland, a different kind of titan – and that's an incredible title, by the way – 

Psalmayene 24: Thank you.

Thembi: You know...so what led you to that journey, and can you talk a little bit about that piece? 

Psalmayene 24: Yeah, yeah! So that piece is about Frederick Douglass' 1845 trip to Ireland. This was after he wrote his autobiography and there was just a lot of heat on him. So he needed to leave the country really to be safe. I didn't even know that Douglass had gone to Ireland, but I was approached by Solas Nua. Their artistic director, Rex Daugherty, approached me to see if I'd be interested in writing half of a project, so that play is actually half of the Frederick Douglass Project. There was another play written by Deirdre Kinahan, an Irish playwright, that operates in tandem with that play. 

So my play takes place on a ship as Douglass is crossing the Atlantic, and then Deirdre’s play takes place once Frederick is in Ireland, and we actually wrote them separately, but they actually work really well together. But yeah, that was something, again – I did it because I didn't know about the history and Douglass – just to learn more about Douglass and to really get into his psychology and his spirit. I mean, to think about him being born enslaved and having spent a good many years enslaved, and then what he was able to achieve is beyond inspirational. Like, we have no excuse. We have no excuse. If this man could do what he did back then, then certainly we can do some big things now.

Thembi: You seem to take joy in the research process when it comes to your writing, so it sounds to me like, not only are you creating work to help other people understand through your lens, certain historical figures, and historical moments, but that you're also getting something educational out of it and enriching your own understanding. So that's really interesting that you take these projects on with this kind of opportunity and choice. 

So let's talk about Monumental Travesties. It’s a play that addresses a particular statue in Washington, DC, and you chose to create a comedy piece that examines something that really troubles you – that’s troubling. Can you talk about that process, and why you chose to bring humor to that story?

Psalmayene 24: Yeah, so it's inspired by the Emancipation Memorial, which is a statue of Abraham Lincoln standing over a crouching Black man in a loincloth with broken shackles on him. It shows the Black man in a very demeaning position, and it's right in Capitol Hill. I had seen the statue literally decades ago, and it has always bothered me, so I decided to write this play using that statue as a jumping-off point. And I thought, because it's such a troubling monument – I mean, there have been protests around the monument to bring it down, and – there was actually an identical monument in Boston that they eventually did take down. So there was enough outcry in Boston for it to come down, but because of the location of the one in DC – it’s on federal property because it's a public park – so just the logistics and the obstacles that you have to jump over to bring that down are greater than the one in Boston which was in sort of a different location.

But anyway, I decided to make that piece a comedy because the subject matter was so heavy, and it was so serious, and so fraught, that I thought the best way to approach that issue and that subject, was actually to make people laugh. I thought that’d be a good way to sort of, disarm people so that we could then really talk about this very serious topic. But yeah, I had a blast writing that, and really had fun with just watching audiences see that play and experience that play. And honestly, as a result of creating that play, I really learned that each play has a different— has its own function, and each play wants to do something else, and you have to just let plays do what they want to do. Still shape them and refine them and all of that, but every play, just like everybody, has its own DNA, has its own sort of thumbprints, and you have to respect that in terms of how you design the play and the dramaturgy around the play, too. So yeah, that's how that came about.

Thembi: Now I want to just have a separate episode where we unpack your whole entire body of work. I want to give you like another 10-15 years and then we would draw this arc, so we're going to put a pin in that so we can come back and talk about that. Because I want to talk about all of your work

Psalmayene 24: That’s right.

Thembi:  But I want to now shift to you, and how you move through this space – so as an artist in theatre, you have traveled all over the country and all over the world. What have you learned about the arts ecosystem, and the theatre ecosystem in particular, in various regions and countries in your travels? 

Psalmayene 24: Oh wow, man, man, man…

Thembi: …and we can start with other regions and then we can go to other countries. 

Psalmayene 24: Yup, yup, yup…no, but ultimately, I think people are the same wherever you go. We all want very similar things. We all want to be inspired, we all enjoy laughter, we want to be respected, we want to be loved. And I think the greatest art really touches those universal yearnings, those universal characteristics of humanity. I mean, I think about, we did Dear Mapel, my solo show about my relationship with my estranged father. We took that down to Santa Fe, New Mexico, and it's a very specific – like, it’s very much about New York, like, Brooklyn specifically, and DC. Like those are really the main two locations in that play, but the folks in Santa Fe related to it and got it as much as the DC audiences got it. So I think if you create art that at least strives to connect with those universal impulses, then I think you're onto something.

Yeah, I mean, I've done theatre working with youth in India, and Croatia, and Bosnia, Herzegovina… Ultimately, from my overseas travels, I've certainly learned that all people want to be respected. All people appreciate peace, you know. And it really, honestly, my trip overseas gave me a different perspective on race too, and what it means to be Black, what it means to be American. You hear about artists who, like Baldwin and Richard Wright, who traveled to Paris and all those jazz cats who talk about Paris and how it's just different over there, and you know, you're treated differently as a Black person. And I definitely experienced some of that when I went over to Croatia, especially. For those of us who maybe haven't really – those Black folk who haven’t left the States, there's a weight that we carry that we don't even know we're carrying, because we're so accustomed to it. So once you go to a country where it's not necessarily about that all the time, then you get a different perspective on what it means to be Black and then really, what it means to be American, because then you're really looked at as more of an American too, more so than you’re looked at as an American when you're in the actual States. So that was really interesting too, in terms of just perspective. But yeah, I mean, people, we're all the same. I mean, we may speak different languages and may eat different foods, but at our core, we want and value the same exact things.

Thembi: Do you feel like what you learned about people and about yourself as a Black man, as an American, in those travels – do you feel like that goes back into your work as an artist?

Psalmayene 24: Certainly, certainly. I mean, and even at one point, even in Dear Mapel, I started to write a monologue about my trip over to Croatia, and then eventually decided not to put that in. But I started to write it, so I did start to think about it, and start to think about how that could inform my work, and I'm sure at some point, I'll probably write something about it and put it out, whether it's a monologue, or an essay, or something. Yeah.

Thembi: Your writing and your directing choices definitely include place-based narratives and explorations of historical figures that are significant to you, and to us. What draws you to those kinds of stories, the place-based and the historical figures? Is that connected to your love for research? What kinds of motivation do you have for that?

Psalmayene 24: Love for research, and then love of anything that's novel and love for anything new, particularly, like when it comes to Black culture and Black history. Like, I just directed Tempestuous Elements over at Arena, and that's about Anna Julia Cooper, who is known as the mother of Black feminism. And I knew nothing about this woman until I read the script, so that's part of what attracted me to that project. I mean, here's this woman who was the fourth Black woman in the world to ever get her Ph.D. she got her PhD from the Sorbonne when she was like 62 or something like that, wrote an early treatise of “Voice from the South” in the late 1800s, where she really spoke about the experience of being both Black and a woman in a way that nobody was really speaking about at that time. It was really known as like the first sort of rigorous voice to really talk about that dual experience. But to just get the chance to share her story with people, that excites me. 

I also love just playing with form as an artist, outside of just Blackness or anything like that, I mean, just like the form of theatre. I think that's also what excited me about hip-hop theatre because ultimately, it's experimental theatre. That's what you're doing – you're playing with form. How can we incorporate, emceeing or lyricism with theatre? How can we incorporate different movement forms with theatre? So in many ways, I think of myself as a formal experimenter as much as an artist who's invested in shedding light on Black stories. 

Thembi: So you think of yourself as a formal experimenter. What do you think about the role of theatre and the arts in our society? Do you connect how you see yourself in this work to that, or is that separate? How do you see the arts as functioning in society. 

Psalmayene 24: Yeah, I think the arts are supposed to move us, push us forward in some way, and make us uncomfortable. To show us a different side of the coin, to show us just a different perspective. They're supposed to shed light in the dark corners of society and culture. I mean, I think our responsibility is really to provoke, to be provocative, to create beauty, of course, but it’s to remind us of our humanity and to also connect us in surprising ways, too. And I think that's also part of it, we’re creative people. We're not supposed to do the same stuff over and over and over again. We're supposed to look at new ways of doing things. I know they say nothing is new under the sun, but I think the artist's job is to keep searching for that newness. Whether or not we get to it or not is one thing, but I think our function is to really inspire people and try to make a more sane world. Try to make this world just a more beautiful and humane place to live.

Thembi: That's beautiful. 

Psalmayene 24: Thank you. 

Thembi: You coined yourself Psalmayene 24—

Psalmayene 24: Yep.

Thembi: —early in your career. 

Psalmayene 24: Yep.

Thembi: When you look back on that moment when you decided to have us call you that, how do you feel that that act of self-definition has impacted your work? 

Psalmayene 24: Yeah, I think what it does for me is that it just sets a certain bar, where it's like, "Okay, now you can't go back to doing basic stuff now, just based on your name alone, dude. Like, come on, Yo.” So it’s really like a reminder to always push for the radical, to be yourself, be creative. I created that name when I was in a band and I was in my early 20s. Folks have stage names and all that, so I decided to bring it over to theatre because I didn't see theatre artists really doing that. It was a way for me to bring some imagination not only to my work, but also to who I am, and then also to really blur the lines between art and reality, and really kind of, you know, shake things up a little bit. We can't do the same old humdrum thing all the damn time, so, yeah. 

Thembi: I love that. I love that. So you talked about directing a play, Tempestuous Elements by Kia Corthron, I believe. 

Psalmayene 24: Yep, yep.

Thembi: And so – Black woman playwright. 

Psalmayene 24: Uh-huh… 

Thembi: Focus on Black women. 

Psalmayene 24: Yep.

Thembi: Black male director. 

Psalmayene 24: Yep.

Thembi: Can you tell me what was special about that kind of connection, you know, as a Black man being able to really put your attention on Black women?

Psalmayene 24: Yep. No, good question. I mean, I thought it was an honor. And to be quite honest, initially, I said, “Well, am I the right director? I'm not a Black woman, should a Black woman be directing this?” And then, the more I read the play and thought about it, it’s like, “No actually, I believe I am the right person.” And I think it's important for Black men to direct the work of Black women, and vice versa. It’s important for Black women to direct the work of Black men because if you handle it with responsibility, and sensitivity, and care, and ultimately love, then I think that says something about what it means to be in relationship with, you know, a Black woman or a Black man. 

But in directing that piece, I thought about my mother, I thought about my sisters, I thought about my wife, I thought about all the Black women in my life who I love the most, basically. I had to go to that place of really deep love, so that’s really what drove me through that process. And then, just again, hopefully we can get to a point in our industry and in our world where it doesn’t matter who directs what play. We’re not quite there yet, but I think we can take responsible steps in that direction. But it was an incredible honor to direct that piece, and in many ways for me that piece was like a Valentine to all Black women, and that’s certainly how I approached the work.

Thembi: I love that. That's so beautiful. 

Psalmayene 24: Thank you, thank you.

Thembi: Yeah…yeah! Okay, so what's next for you? What are you excited about that's on the horizon? 

Psalmayene 24: Yeah, so right now I'm in pre-production for a couple of plays. The next one that's coming up is Metamorphoses over at Folger. So we go into rehearsals soon – early April. and then we open in early May. And then I'll be directing The Colored Museum at Studio after that. So yeah, I'm looking forward to that piece as well.

Thembi: So, uh – wait a minute…

(Laughter.)

Thembi: …so a classical piece, and then – and then, a satirical piece. 

Psalmayene 24: Yes. Yep, yep.

Thembi: So, like, a big, epic sort of sweeping historical piece, and then a very specific Black-centered, like, race-centered piece.

Psalmayene 24: Yep.

Thembi: Like, how do you – are you going to be doing those things at the same time? 

Psalmayene 24: No, well, pre-production is happening simultaneously, but then once I'm in rehearsal—

Thembi: Okay…

Psalmayene 24: —for Metamorphoses, then, you know, I'll be mostly, I’ll be focused on that. But I mean, it's important to say that with Metamorphoses, I'm also, like, that will be done through a Black lens also. So, you know, you're dealing with these myths, but then I had to make sure that I'm doing it in a way that resonates with me and that still feels soulful. So there's a very specific way that we'll be doing that, that production that connects with that. Yeah. And then you know, I'm still writing – I'm working on a musical about John Lewis. So that'll be – that's with a theatre down in Atlanta, so I'm writing the book and lyrics for that. 

Thembi: That's incredible. I love – I love your choices. I love your ideas. I love the point you make that it's always going to be through a Black lens, regardless. 

Psalmayene 24: Yup.

Thembi: And I feel like that connects to what you said about wanting us to be able to direct anything we want, and just accept, you know, we all can accept like, okay, this is coming through this director’s lens…and then that newness—  

Psalmayene 24: Yep…

Thembi: — that you talked about, “Okay, what happens when you see it through my eyes? What new insights do you gain?” So that's really interesting and, and I mean it, I want to be able to look at your body of work – another 10 years, I want to be able to really see what was happening, so we have to come back 10 years from now.

Psalmayene 24: Yes, indeed…let’s do it. Let’s do it!

Thembi: (Laughs.) Okay, and we're just going piece, by piece, by piece. And we are breaking it down. Yeah…

Psalmayene 24: Yup, yup…for sure, for sure. I’m looking forward to it. I’m excited to see what will happen. 

Thembi: That's right, that's right. You know, the legacy is still going, we're not done yet. 

Psalmayene 24: That’s right.

Thembi: So I just – oh my gosh, I really, really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today. This was such a great conversation. I just, I appreciate your work. I look forward to your next projects and thank you for joining us.

Psalmayene 24: Thank you so much, Thembi. Really appreciate it. Enjoy talking to you. 

Thembi: Alright, till next time. 

Psalmayene 24: Peace.

KeyBARD is produced, written, and hosted by Thembi Duncan. Theme music by Sycho Sid. Visit us on Instagram @Keybard_IG.

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Thembi Duncan

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Psalmayene 24

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