TALK IT OUT
Welcome to Talk It Out, the thought-provoking podcast that brings engaging discussions, insightful interviews, and interactive segments right to your screen. Our dynamic hosts dive deep into a wide range of topics, exploring the complexities of life, relationships, current events, and much more. With expert guests, lively debates, and a belief in creating an inclusive space, Talk It Out challenges conventional wisdom, encourages critical thinking, and fosters understanding and empathy. Through interactive segments and viewer participation, we ensure that your voice is heard and valued. Join us on this exhilarating journey of discovery, where every episode is a gateway to enlightenment and connection.
TALK IT OUT
S1 E2 - Navigating the Journey to Quit Vaping: Addiction, Health, and the Power of Support Systems
The road to quitting vaping is paved with more than just good intentions; it's an intricate dance with our own neural pathways, habits, and psychological needs. As I shared my story, from using vaping as a crutch during stressful army days to facing a harrowing blood cancer diagnosis, it struck me how deeply addiction can entangle with our mental health and search for meaning. Our conversation doesn't shy away from the statistics or the relapses; instead, we embrace them as part of the larger narrative - a testament to the resilience required in this personal battle and the profound realization that quitting can bring you closer to a life cherished with loved ones.
Support systems cannot be understated, and this episode delves into the web of relationships that can either hinder or help us on our journey to being vape-free. Whether it's the challenge of being surrounded by fellow vapers or the solace found in smoke-free spaces, we dissect the environment's role in our success. We also explore the broader implications of addiction, such as the severe health consequences and the impact on our lungs, sharing insights from healthcare professionals and personal anecdotes that highlight the urgency of making an informed decision to quit.
To round off our deep dive, we celebrate the evolving dynamics within our support networks and the power of gender appreciation. Delving into what men and women admire about each other, we acknowledge the love, trust, and understanding that fortify these bonds. We also cast our gaze to the cosmos with our analysis of the "Life on Our Planet" documentary, pondering our origins, our cultural connections, and how our very essence is intertwined with the universe. Join us on this compelling journey, share your thoughts on Instagram or our YouTube channel, and become an integral part of our story.
Welcome to Talk it Out. We're your hosts. I'm Jason.
Speaker 2:And I'm Aaliyah, let's get into it.
Speaker 1:Hey y'all, welcome back to Talk it Out. We would just like to take a second to thank our listeners and our viewers for taking the time to be involved this week Over the course of our last two episodes really, it was episode one, part one and part two, but we got a lot of involvement and a lot of love, and especially on social media and Instagram. We appreciate and enjoy interacting with all of you and we do hope that you were able to take something meaningful from what we discussed and hopefully find areas to apply it to your own life, and I think we're all just aiming to get a little bit better every day.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, thank you. It means a lot that you guys are taking the time out of your day to interact with us outside of the podcast community is such a big aspect of why we're doing this show, so we hope that you guys will continue to show up on instagram so that we can all hang out together yeah and uh.
Speaker 1:Speaking of instagram, we did have a comment under there that we kind of wanted to hit upon a little bit more today. Um, someone had reached out and asked if we could touch a little bit more on the subject of quitting vaping and, as we discussed in last week's episode, that was something that I went through the experience of recently, within the last month and a half now, is when I started my journey to quit nicotine.
Speaker 2:Well, and I honestly think that it's notable to mention that it's not necessarily when you started.
Speaker 1:No, most recently it was the most recent attempt.
Speaker 2:Right, probably the first time that you really like had mentioned that you were going to quit smoking your vape was when we were moving from North Carolina to Utah. That was in the summer of 2020 and you just like threw your vapes away and you're like I'm done, and I was like I actually totally forgot about that I was like, um, okay, but like that's a lot of money.
Speaker 2:You had like a nice like one of the big ones. Yeah, the nice like expensive ones, and not only that. I think I had your old one. I would like occasionally use the vape, but definitely was not an addiction for me because I could just kind of stop whatever I wanted to and I didn't use it often and it was just more like I liked the flavor aspect more than anything. But you like threw mine away. You're like I'm done. I was like okay, and then was it the first day into our move that you got the little disposable ones from the gas station.
Speaker 1:I don't remember, but I'm sure it was shortly thereafter. There's been a few times that I tried to quit, and it really just didn't last more than a handful of days.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a handful at best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like a handful at best. Yeah, and I think with quitting vaping or smoking or any of the nicotine products that oftentimes at least for me. I underestimated it. Yeah, and I think that goes for a lot of people that when we start trying to quit, we think it's going to be easier than it is, yeah, and when it's not as easy as we're expecting it to be, it can be demoralizing in a way.
Speaker 2:Right, right. I think, even more than like demoralizing, like there's so many feelings I think that would go into that, because so many of us have this like underlying belief of like mind over matter and then when you realize that it's your mind is more than just deciding you're gonna do something, your mind is more than just deciding you're going to do something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, if you look at it generally, then I guess it is. You know, it's just a mental game, right, but when you really break it down and understand the true addiction side of smoking or whatever habit that you have, that you're trying to break, because addiction can present itself in so many different types of habits. Yeah, so many. Well, and for me, I used it as self-medication when I was in the army because I just wasn't in the best place mentally.
Speaker 1:I was feeling stressed out on a pretty consistent basis, and so I turned to vaping as a way to calm my nerves.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And to feel better when I was in certain situations.
Speaker 2:Do you think that it also, like did help with kind of the like, more boring aspects, like you sitting around waiting for things, or kind of the community of like you guys would go out and smoke together like was there more to it, just the stress.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that there was, but I think that for me the stress was it kind of got you hooked. It was far and above, yeah, the main motivating factor.
Speaker 1:Right using it, it's kind of like your pacifier, your soother right, and that's the thing when you're talking about it being so much more than just deciding that you're not going to do it yeah is that, over the course I used my vape for seven years, and so, over the course, I used my vape for seven years, and so, over the course of seven years, probably I don't know a couple hundred times a day. I would probably raise that thing to my mouth.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And over the course of seven years, doing that every single day. Oh, I'm stressed, I need my vape. I'm not feeling good in this moment. I need my vape. All of those things basically train your brain to act in a certain way.
Speaker 2:Right and also to rely on that thing to fix the problem Exactly.
Speaker 1:You're feeling stressed, you're feeling overwhelmed. Whatever the case may be, you raise your vape and you take a hit. Each and every time you do that, you're telling your brain that's what you need when you're feeling those certain ways yeah emotions yeah you're, you're training those neural pathways to form and, oh, I'm feeling stressed.
Speaker 2:So instead of using these healthy coping, coping mechanisms to get those levels down, those cortisol levels down, whatever it's just, oh, I'm gonna hit this. It'll make me feel better for a second, but in the long run it's not helping at all. It's making your level sit. Your baseline hits so much like higher. You're aggravated so much easier because your body doesn't know how to respond to these stressors and these everyday occurrences of making decisions or having when, if you choose not to use the nicotine yeah, yeah, like yeah your body is adjusted to a certain way of living.
Speaker 2:Right when you take that away, it kind of goes crazy yeah, like it's going to upset the scale because you've placed the scale at this baseline by using this pacifier. Every single time you're upset right and then you take that baseline away and your body's trying to figure out how to even the scale again. Your body's going to be like what the hell, I need that. What are you doing?
Speaker 1:yeah, um, and and with vaping, I also feel like it's just so important to make note of how difficult it really is. Yeah, because Aaliyah mentioned last week how it was not an enjoyable first few weeks for us and there was a point in those first few weeks of me feeling sick to my stomach, just kind of in a fuzz, being easily irritable, all the horrible withdrawal symptoms that come with trying to quit where I went on Google just out of curiosity of how difficult things really were and I Googled how difficult is it to stop smoking or to stop vaping? And if you Google that exact thing right now, it will tell you at the top of the page hey, this is the numbers for the suicide and crisis lifeline.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it's so hard that they're like hey, let's put this at the top of the search engine.
Speaker 1:Well, that really hit me hard when I Googled that and I saw that that was the first thing to pop up yeah because that tells me that when people are trying to get away from nicotine specifically I don't know about other drugs out there, but as far as nicotine goes people have to reach out to a suicide prevention hotline because they feel so horrible.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that really hit me hard with my withdrawals from nicotine that I was not expecting at all was the depression.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, I was expecting to feel like crap. I was expecting to feel like crap. I was expecting to be irritable. Yeah, I was not expecting my mental health to be affected so much.
Speaker 2:And I think that could be something very important for people trying to quit, to have knowledge of beforehand, yeah, and kind of have like a game plan as to how you're going to intercept those feelings with yourself, with your support system around you. And like take note that they say I mean, I don't know much research in this that I've looked into, but nicotine is one of the hardest things to withdraw from.
Speaker 1:And when you think of that, they say that it's it's not necessarily more difficult, but they say that it's in the same wheelhouse as a lot of hard street drugs like heroin and crack.
Speaker 2:Right, and to think about it like that, when you have such availability to nicotine and it's that hard to withdraw from, that's insane there's probably what 10 different places within a three minute drive that you could go and get something nicotine related yeah, and like we're in utah, like we don't have the easiest laws surrounding stuff like that, and it's still so easily accessible and well, not only easily accessible, but they do make it easily.
Speaker 1:They make it very appealing as well, right, um, and I don't want to get into that too much into the into the politics of all that, right, but it definitely it's something that, if they're going to have it that accessible and that appealing, I just feel like there should be more information given to us as a society as to what it really does.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think that an important part about it is it is such, it is such a mental game, but have grace for yourself that your body is also going through something and if you have access available to go do some like IV flush stuff I mean, we you didn't do that, but I do think that if it's an option for some people, maybe look into it, because those things can help you detox your body faster, but you don't have to do it like that. But there is other options available if you feel like you need the extra help. And it is okay if you do, because, looking back, I feel like you and I definitely should have looked into that more for you within that first week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. I was just a little bit stubborn, wanting to feel like I was doing it more on my own.
Speaker 2:Well, what I'm going to tell you right now, like that's just in my little head, I'm thinking stupid, ego, shut up. Like that's one of those male ego things where I'm like why? Like that's dumb, because why?
Speaker 1:would you put yourself?
Speaker 2:through. Like more hell, like accept the help.
Speaker 1:Something about it feels like it would be more fulfilling.
Speaker 2:Right, but I feel like that's false, that's like that's your ego talking to you, maybe.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you're very possible that you're right, but that's how I went into it.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think a big part that was really shocking for you was you realized holy shit, I'm addicted to something yeah it has its claws in me yeah, and like we discussed in our first episode.
Speaker 1:I did a very good job throughout high school staying away from all that kind of stuff, did we?
Speaker 2:talk about that in the first episode.
Speaker 1:We did, we touched on it a little bit, oh, okay, and I really, after seeing my parents struggle with addiction so much, and how it affected their lives in a negative manner.
Speaker 2:Right and your life and the people around you, realizing that I had that addiction was definitely a tough pill to swallow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought it would be easier for me to step away from, because alcohol or anything else that I've really experimented with hasn't felt like an addiction, right, um, and so I I really convinced myself in my head is what it came down to, that the nicotine was something that I just liked to do, but I could stop whenever I wanted yeah um, and then quickly within you know, those first handful of attempts to quit is when I it really started to sink in that this was something more serious than I thought it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I do think. I was doing some research on the subject this morning and on average it takes six attempts at least for someone to quit smoking or to quit vaping.
Speaker 2:And that's just on average.
Speaker 1:They said in this article that there's been countless cases of people who have had to try 30 times to quit smoking before finding success.
Speaker 2:Wow, that sounds exhausting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so it's important to not get discouraged. Yeah, to continue to believe in ourselves, and I really don't like to use the term fail when it comes to.
Speaker 2:I tried to quit and it didn't work. I started up again. I don't like to call that a failure?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I know the goal wasn't necessarily reached, but at the same time, you're trying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you put in the effort you made an attempt.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you made an attempt, then on average you got five more to go.
Speaker 2:Right, well and honestly, I think it goes down to if you're not trying, you're failing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Failing is not trying. Yeah, that's what failing is.
Speaker 1:And success is something that sometimes it comes really slowly. Yeah, you have to work for it. It's a progression. I think most of the time it is something you have to fight for. Yeah, is that 75% of people who smoke and quit smoking will relapse within six months of quitting.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:And within a year of quitting 47%, will relapse.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:And then from there. Each year thereafter, the percentage of people who relapse goes down significantly and ultimately stables out like 10%. I think it said.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But relapse is something that is to be expected with addiction.
Speaker 2:Right. I mean I think in any addiction recovery I think relapse is expected in it. It's expected out of most people going through recovery. Does relapse with smoking. Does that include the nicotine patches or whatever those little pack things are? Yeah, it's just nicotine, just make a deal in general, anything in general. Okay.
Speaker 1:And I don't want to talk about these things in kind of a negative light as far as relapse or as far as multiple attempts to stop. I speak about those things just to kind of hopefully give hope.
Speaker 2:Right, well, and it's normal.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You're not alone. You're not the only one going through like multiple attempts or relapses or whatever.
Speaker 1:Like this is a story that can relate to most people going through recovery yeah and, I think, for people trying to quit overall, you and this is just my personal opinion, but I I believe that you need to find your reason.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, if you go into it saying you know, I'm just gonna quit because I want to, or because I know it's good for me, or because other people want me to yeah, or because somebody else wants me to stop. I don't believe you're setting yourself up for success.
Speaker 1:For me, I what three years ago got diagnosed with a blood cancer with a blood cancer and in my most recent visit in February or March I was talking to my doctor about my smoking addiction and just had to get some information from him and as far as how much it actually affects my health and affects my condition and he had mentioned to me that I would if my condition progresses to a point that I need more intense treatment, that the nicotine and the smoking could basically interfere with my treatment options. To make a long story short, In the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for me, that was something that just finally clicked, where I told myself you know what? I don't want to shorten my life any more than it should be. Yeah, I don't want to do that to you or to any future kids or anyone who cares about me. Um, and I also don't want to experience that and have to be in more pain because I set my body up for failure.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, and I do think that it's important to note that it is a pretty big step for you to say like you don't want your life to end early, because you have struggled with pretty deep depression and you have felt like you know I'm not going to necessarily do anything to end my life early, but there was no motivation to live a long life yeah, you had.
Speaker 2:No, there was kind of like well, what's really the point? You know, like if this kills me, it kills me, whatever. And I think it just goes to show how important it is to work on your mental health and your mental health is part of your health as well and you can't necessarily expect yourself to want to quit these addictions and quit these negative habits or these negative self-deprecating things when you have no desire to really live anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and I know the people reaching out about vaping and kind of asking for more information. I assume that you're in a similar boat to me, where you have an interest in quitting or you've tried quitting and it just has been kicking your butt.
Speaker 1:I mean it happens, but I want to share with you what ended up working for me personally. Um, of course, I think each person is different and we're not all going to find success within the same places, but for me, I got some nicotine gum. So I was smoking a vape and the juice that I was using was 6mg nicotine, and so I went and got some nicotine gum. That was four milligrams. And I also had an old box from one of the last times I tried to quit. That was two, two milligrams, and so again, I kind of think of this as the self-medication. It's like with prescription drugs. You don't just I mean some prescription drugs. I think you can just go off of cold Turkey and you're fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but.
Speaker 1:I know they're usually different. I know a lot of the stuff that I'm on. I can't just stop and same with you. Yeah, Um, if you just quit that stuff, cold Turkey, it throws your body into disarray and you literally get withdrawal symptoms yeah, and it's bad news, um, and so I don't think quitting cold turkey is gonna work for a whole lot of people yeah um, and I just don't see how that is the most beneficial way to go about it right and so if you can kind of wean off of it like I was doing, where you go from smoking six milligrams to chewing gum, that is four milligrams, and I chewed my four milligram gum for a week.
Speaker 1:I was kind of expediting this process as much as possible which. I could have drawn it out and probably not had as bad as withdrawal symptoms. But I used my four milligram for a week. Then I went down to my two milligram gum and I used that for a week. Um, and then I was planning to use nicotine patch that would disperse throughout 24 hours for the following week. But those patches were. I think I was allergic to them. They just weren't working for me.
Speaker 2:So well, I don't even necessarily think you're allergic to them. I think a lot of. For me, well, I don't even necessarily think you're allergic to them. I think a lot of people. They're pretty painful Because it goes and it has to start somewhere. So you have a concentrated amount of nicotine right there and it hurts. It doesn't feel good. That was very uncomfortable, yeah. So I think that that's probably common with most people. But also there are like there are resources out there. If you are um, like with your healthcare providers and stuff, ask them about being able to quit. Um, we were able to get the gum and the patches from the VA because of Jason's benefits. So look into things like that. There is research, yes, but there are resources. So if you feel like you can't afford something like that, try to reach out and see if there are other options for you.
Speaker 1:Right, and your healthcare provider and I think even some places of work, your employers will offer help with certain areas like this. I know I've worked at at least one place that had resources to quit smoking, but some of those resources may also include classes. The VA also offered me a smoking cessations class, which I guess is similar to like an AA meeting, where it was just a bunch of us there together who were all trying to quit smoking to. I guess you know it helps to see other people are trying as well. Yeah, and it helps to know that you have a support system of people who know what you're going through Right and that can be a big help toward staying away from it going forward in the future.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you surround yourself with people who are doing it all the time, it's just it's going to be a lot more difficult to stay away from the stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, or even if you're surrounding yourself with situations that you would normally use Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you really do have to look at it as an addiction and treating it for what it is and being honest about about it, so that you can make informed decisions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if there's anything else that y'all would like us to touch on. As far as that, I don't know if we'll continue to have conversations on the podcast, necessarily about it, but we can definitely look at adding some videos to our instagram or something like that, to answer more specific questions, or even we'll just reply to you in the comment section and, um, hopefully we can find ways to motivate those who are who are wanting to stop to yeah, to find ways yeah, I would like you to.
Speaker 2:I know you've already told me this a few times, but I've forgotten the details. But with the tanks that you were smoking every day, how many like cigarettes does that equate to? Oh?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I was told and this isn't something that I've done a ton of research on, so you might want to double check me on this yeah, but I was told by somebody who actually worked at a vape shop in north carolina when I was buying my vapes that one one tank and this was for the bigger mods yeah, but still one of those tanks full of juice was equivalent to a pack of cigarettes in the amount of nicotine that was in them, not necessarily all the other chemicals and yeah tobacco and whatnot, but purely in the amount of nicotine that you were ingesting and taking in, it was equivalent to a pack of cigarettes, and I probably went through three, four of those tanks a day when we were in North Carolina at least, um, and honestly that could be, I could be underestimating, but um
Speaker 1:either way it it is with the vaping and, uh, the electronic cigarettes. There might be some aspects of it where you're where it's better than smoking for your health, but I do believe, as the research comes out in the future, uh, that they'll find aspects where vaping is worse for you than cigarettes too yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:Well, there already is like some research surrounding it that I feel like has been coming out the last handful of years, and a lot of people have just kind of like brushed it under the rug because they don't want to face the fact that it is bad yeah, well, and I had my aunt that commented on my Facebook post when I mentioned that I was trying to stop smoking and she said that of course she was very happy for me to stop vaping.
Speaker 1:She works as a nurse and she said that she has seen people in their 40s and 50s who were dying from vaping and that it was so much more progressed in their lungs and in their body than people who had been smoking for even longer than people who had been vaping.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think for both of us that kind of hits home. Because my grandparents passed away young, I never got to meet them. My dad said I mean I met them but I was a baby, met my grandma but, um, they died because of smoking. They didn't want to quit and your grandma had a similar.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my grandmother passed away from COPD, which is a cost from smoking mostly, um, and it's horrible, I mean you, basically your lungs stop working and just slowly but surely, you're not able to breathe yeah and it's. It's not fun to witness and I can't imagine that any aspect of it is okay when you're going through it yourself, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, that seems like horrible death, like horrible to witness, horrible to go through.
Speaker 1:All of it it's horrible to hear about so, yeah, well, and I even was having, you know, mucus problems for so long, or it was just, it was almost like a lingering sinus infection type thing where I would just have mucus discharge like constantly, constantly. And one of the things that smoking and vaping does is that inside your lungs you have little hair-like structures called cilia and they're there basically to kind of migrate any fluid and mucus out of your lungs. When you smoke and vape, those little cilia will diminish. Vape, um, those little cilia will diminish, and so there's there's no way to, or at least it's not as easy for them to expel that sort of thing right, and so you're actually having fluid and mucus and things like that collecting in your lungs as you're breathing, yeah well.
Speaker 2:And then I mean most, I mean most people get sick, like your body is already in this, like sick, like state, and then you add on like, let's say, if you get bronchitis or whatever, it can't fight it, it doesn't have the tools to fight it, like the those little hair, like things. They're like we're out of here, we're not even here to help you if you're sick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think I'm pretty sure it just damages them. Can they like? Yeah, they do, but I think it takes a full year for them to be back at like full strength after you're quit.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's crazy and we're not saying any of this. It's like a scare tactic or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Um, just kind of drawing out the facts and also the opinions that we have gathered from our experience with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In hopes that some of these things will help anyone else that's trying to quit to find a little bit more motivation.
Speaker 2:Right, or just resonate with you and help you to build your case onto why quitting might be the right thing for you. Because I do think, at the end of the day, there is enough evidence on the pro side of quitting that it is the right decision to make. But you need to come to that decision, and it's the same that goes with healing trauma, with working on your mental health. You have to decide to do it or it is not going to happen. Nobody can force you to do it.
Speaker 1:you have to decide and you have to put in the work right and your brain, with addiction and with traumas or whatever you're trying to work through, your brain's going to defend itself, right. So when you tell yourself I'm going to quit there's, you're going to have thoughts pop into your brain as to why you shouldn't quit Right, because it's going to tell you oh no, I need this stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to keep doing it Right, so don't stop Right, because you've trained me to need this, right yeah.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day it's, there's no way it's better for you than the harm that it that it causes you, so yep right and there are, just like matter of fact, things that it's like it's not, it's not good for you.
Speaker 2:There are plenty of studies that are going towards it is not. They're good, it's not good, it's not right.
Speaker 1:That doesn't mean that like we're gonna see people walking on the street and be like that doesn't mean that like we're going to see people walking on the street and be like yeah, like yeah like, no, like.
Speaker 2:we understand that people have the right to decide, and I think that is an important part is that you have the right to decide, but like make educated decisions when you're doing things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the last thing that I want to say on it is just find yourself somebody, at least one person, in your life who can go through this with you um, and I'm not talking about somebody- else that smokes. I'm talking about somebody you can lean on when it's tough and when it sucks and when every fiber of your being is telling you just to smoke. Go to that person and say this is how I'm feeling. What do I do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you're telling me that you just want to dig through the garbage right now and like find the vapes, but you already took them to. Like you know they were already like dumped, dumped.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, and I guess that's this is really. The last thing I want to mention is, um, I just had to get rid of them. I knew that if I kept them around the house that I would do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you definitely would have cause. There were multiple times that you were like I shouldn't have thrown away. If they were here, I would have grabbed them.
Speaker 1:And just make it as hard on yourself as possible to have access to them.
Speaker 2:I know it's easy to go down the street and buy another one, but it's a lot more difficult than walking five steps and picking it up, yeah well, and I do think it's also important to note that finding your support system is important, but if you guys don't have a baseline of love and trust and understanding and grace, that maybe that's the place that needs to start. I think one of the reasons that you had failed in your attempts before was because we did not have the correct support system at home to have you go through those things. We just just didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I wasn't in a very good place either.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to evaluate the things that are influencing your life, and you may have to chop off one thing at a time, because that's really the only way to do it honestly is to just when we look at the whole big picture as one, it's a lot to tackle. But if we can go and look at every individual aspect and say like, okay, we're gonna work on this and set deadlines for yourself, like you did with the okay this thursday, this thursday I'm using this milligram this thursday this thursday.
Speaker 2:I'm using this milligram. Like you were like no, and I was like. I even said, like you could, you could postpone another week and you're like no, I have to do this.
Speaker 1:This is the day that I set for myself yeah, you need goals yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, let's do our quick little connection question. So it's another vulnerability edition, but it's one that we found on Instagram through a creator. His profile name is at PepeCorto.
Speaker 1:P-E-P-P-E underscore C-U-R-T-O.
Speaker 2:Yes, and he posted a little reel that said let's play a little game. Women say something they admire from men and men say something that they admire about women. And when I came across it. I was really excited because I just wanted to go read the comments and see what they said. So I want to read a few of the comments real quick and then you and I will answer the question. Someone said I love how men simplify life. It's a beautiful thing. Somebody said I love how easy it is.
Speaker 1:We simplify life. In some aspects.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the ability to simplify for the people around you is probably more what they meant, because I can definitely see that I know a lot of the men in my life. I see them wanting to hit those goals Complicated things for ourselves. Yeah, but they have the desire to simplify for the people around them. But they have the desire to simplify for the people around them and if you kind of untangle those insecurities and self-doubt and toxic masculinity practices that society has placed upon men. I think you can see it for what?
Speaker 2:it is, and I think that all these things that we're saying for men and women. You kind of have to look at it through that lens. Somebody said I love how easy it is, how easy it feels to open up to women. The worry of embarrassment just feels lower, even as friends. Somebody else said I admire how women grind despite the numerous hormonal cycles that create such instability in their minds and bodies, also admire how courageously women face the world.
Speaker 2:We recognize your unique challenges and admire your perseverance. Somebody said I love when men allow themselves to be soft and vulnerable. It's so important and beautiful to me. Um, let's see, there was one with men that I loved. There was a good handful of men talking about women and it was very beautiful to see because we don't see that a lot. I mean, either way, I don't think we see it a lot.
Speaker 1:I have seen it a lot more, though, just when I've been passing on random comment sections on. Instagram. I used to never see men really defending women? Yeah, um but I would say over the past, like year and a half or so, I've seen more and more of like come. Come on, guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why are we?
Speaker 1:this way still.
Speaker 2:And I actually really, really appreciate it because I mean, in all instances, the um, the oppressors, need to stand up for the oppressed, or nothing is going to change, and you could put that in the aspect of anything right, yeah, and you do have to admit that, like, women have been looked at as less lesser than and it's been recently like it's not, like this is just something like that's not affecting us in 2024. No, it's been recently Like it's not, like this is just something like that's not affecting us in 2024. No, it's still here. They actually made a really like big movie about it last year. You know what I mean. Like it's still plaguing us and it plagues everybody. It doesn't just affect women, it affects men too, when you look at the world that way. But somebody said I love how passionate a man can be about the things he loves and I love that statement.
Speaker 2:Um, but anyways, I will definitely link this video so you guys can go look at it and read through the comments. I mean it has 34.2k comments on it, so please go read through those and just fill yourself with some positivity towards the people around us, because we are in each other's lives. This has nothing to do with your sexuality or your gender identity or anything like that. This is the people that we are with every single day in co-worker relationships and friendships, and relationships and partnerships, all these things and it's important that we know how to be around each other and appreciate each other, because this is this is the world that we have, so it's important to learn how to appreciate and love each other and also put those things into words, being vulnerable about it.
Speaker 2:So, even if you don't comment on the video, please go read them. It would be fun to see you guys over there if you are commenting, and make sure you tag us at Talk it Out underscore show. If you do say something, we would love to see it, but let's answer the question for ourselves. So, do you want to go first or do you want me to go first?
Speaker 2:Ladies first, okay, jewelry is not dead when you don't want to do something, just kidding. So I think feeling protected, supported and loved by a man in your life is something that everybody should experience Just the support and their willingness to love.
Speaker 1:And when you say, protected you mean emotionally and physically.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean all of it. Okay, you know, I feel like men have the ability to instill loyalty, respect and confidence confidence in themselves and everybody around them if they're coming from healthy places. And it starts with instilling those things as a child, and I think that's where a lot of men are lacking these days is they did not get these things instilled to them as children from the men in their lives yeah, but also from the world too, though oh yeah, just the world, the men society everything unless your parents, I feel like, are very on top of this sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I think society has a big chance to kind of trump what they might be telling you because, yeah, at least I'm sure it's the same for women. But like I can remember being in starting in elementary schools when things started being like, oh, like this is how we do things because we're guys yeah, and they were like dumb things, like boys, don't cry this way, you don't fit in with the rest of the guys around you yeah and so there's a high amount of pressure to act a certain way.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's actually something that I put on, the things that I admire about men is is their loyalty. They are, you know, looking back at history. It was like the men went out and and did these things together as a group of men, right, and did these things together as a group of men, right. And it's always this, like, oh, men say something to men and they fight about it, and then they're fine, right. Like that's something that I think is pretty admirable to be able to realize, be able to check each other but still love each other, and I think when that's coming from good places, it's really, really powerful. And also, I love, like, hanging out around guys, because their, their banter and their play is always so it's fun. It's fun to, you know, mess around and have fun with guys For the most part, yeah, there were points sometimes when I went into your work in the army and I was like yeah, that's a whole nother place.
Speaker 2:Y'all remember that I'm here right now because you were in a male dominant field Male only. Yeah, we didn't have any field In your guys' unit we didn't have any female, so In your business unit you didn't have any.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of conversations that you wouldn't have around women that we often had there.
Speaker 2:And if I was there, I was just like y'all, remember, I'm standing right here.
Speaker 1:Earmuffs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I do love, you know, when you see it in kids babies they're. You know, babies are very attached to their mothers. That's their life force and as they get older, they get to learn how to play and have fun with their dads and it's just so fun to see because they they're learning how to play and play is an important part of living, even as you get older, yeah, so I think that's something that I admire about men.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, those are a few things.
Speaker 1:Thanks, pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can be, you sure can be.
Speaker 1:For me. So I kind of want to preface with how good you've been for me as far as us being in a relationship and you showing me you know loyalty and that I can trust you and that you love me and care about me. Um, but growing up, like I said in the first episode, my mom was it's not that she didn't love me and she didn't care for me, she wasn't loyal to me, she was yeah, but I just didn't interpret things that way yeah, and also my aunt and my grandma, really all the, all the women that were in my life. From a young age. I kind of felt hurt by yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I did grow up with a little bit of a twisted view on women, and that's something I've had to work on even before you and I met just with building that trust and regaining my confidence in women.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you married like a raging feminist.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't say raging feminist, Okay but what a true feminist is. I am yeah. Yeah, not what society says a feminist is, Without all the drama and everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but not even drama. I mean that could be interpreted as I'll just say women get called dramatic a lot, so I think you've got to be careful with that word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I shouldn't use dramatic. I guess it's just more the negative side of things. You know feminists and even males who will say things about the opposite sex and kind of throw jabs in there right.
Speaker 2:Talk about it in a negative light, yeah, or like oh, we need like now men need to be oppressed because women were for so long like. No, that isn't. I don't think that's correct at all. That is not. We are advanced enough to learn how to coexist and we know the difference between right and wrong.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, but anyways. Or even men who are saying like, oh women, now everything is fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's not you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyways, with all that being said, Aaliyah has helped me a lot to appreciate women and everything that y'all do, and for me and this question, something that I admire probably the most about women is your ability to just naturally care and naturally be in touch with your soft side. I think those are very much motherly instincts, something that you have in order to take care of babies.
Speaker 1:I mean you have to raise children, you have to show them that love. I mean, you have to raise children, you have to show them that love. And as a man who definitely was affected, at least on some, not that it's unnatural for me to care and it's unnatural for me to be in touch with my soft side, because those could be natural things, but society kind of twisted me in a way that I have to work to get there, because I sometimes want to fight.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, when I'm threatened, I just want to immediately resort to that Right, and so seeing women be able to just be to live in that place so easily is definitely an inspiration for me, because it shows me that it can be done.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it shows me that, after growing up the way I did, that it's a necessity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you would have had the opportunity to experience a healthy version of a woman's love, I think your view of the world would have been a lot different.
Speaker 1:And it just goes to show the power of a woman's love, I think, and you know, with the ability to create life, which is Well, and I don't mean to interrupt you, but I'm just thinking about my mom, with you saying that, and it feels to me somewhat unfair to put that all on her oh no, I because her mother, my grandma. She did not provide my mom with the woman's love that she should have gotten yes, and. I don't know how far back that goes generationally who really knows?
Speaker 2:but I mean, I would never expect my mom to show me something that she never learned right, but I do think it is important to note that in this day and age, now we have the resources to understand the things that are not healthy and that are healthy, and it is our responsibility as adults to change those things.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that the things in the past are OK or an excuse, kind of like we talked about, and it doesn't mean that we're pointing fingers right, it doesn't mean that we're pointing fingers or blaming or anything like that, but it just goes to show that the wounded female, just like the wounded male, affects a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you deserve, and we all deserve but especially to heal that right, because baby I mean, if you see a new baby they just want mom, they just want mom I mean there's an undeniable scientific connection between a mother and a child that's just not there with a father and a child it's not not there with a father and a child, it's not.
Speaker 2:It has to be because, when you think about it, the baby is in the woman's womb. They are establishing this emotional connection biologically, physically, biologically, emotionally, for nine months. That baby, biologically, emotionally for nine months, that baby. All that baby knows is I'm gonna depend on mom for all of these things. That is my safe place. And then, as you are in the world and you can even, you can bond with the, with dad in the womb too, by talking and stuff like that. They've proven that they can hear and remember voices and stuff like that. But it is just a different type of bond and I not only feel for you that if you would have had that mother's love, but your mom too, because little girls deserve to feel that too. And there is this wounded female archetype in our world right now that female to female relationships are hard.
Speaker 1:They are hard and like, you're talking like wounded just in general yeah, not necessarily mother to daughter.
Speaker 2:I mean mother to daughter. It's the same thing. It's female to female what, what?
Speaker 1:why do you say it's hard?
Speaker 2:it's just a hard relationship there's I don't even really know how to explain it. I think every mother-daughter duo could probably tell you that it's just it's a hard relationship and then, when it's, it's rooted in unhealthy learned behaviors or whatever. Like your mom deserved that love too, and your grandma deserved that love. Like this is something that has plagued us for generations, and I think goes the same for female to male relationships and male to male relationships. I think there are things that are wounded and if we're not talking about them, it's never going to get fixed. And it's okay to be. Like you know, I wish I could have received that and that's not putting blame on anybody, because you also, and I also, wish that your mom would have received that too.
Speaker 2:She deserves it just as much as everybody else. Being able to look back and realize that this has plagued us all and has hurt us all, that this has plagued us all and has hurt us all, I think, adds in this extra bit of compassion that we can have for people Right, and that's kind of why I wanted to bring that point up is just because I wanted there to be more compassion behind the subject here. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, I think love is something that I've been learning very recently is yeah it's something that should be involved everywhere.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, and I think one of the reasons that I can kind of jump into things like that and not necessarily have this baseline of like this is where we're coming from, is because, naturally, I do lean very much towards the side of my intention is love. When I say things, it's coming from a place of love, and I do think it's important to also note that sometimes you have to explain your intention yeah, but I mean I feel like majority of the time in my mind.
Speaker 1:I like to explain things, just because you've seen countless times where I misinterpret.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um well, and you've seen plenty of times where I come back and say what my intention is, not this dude like I'm coming from a place of. Sorry, I just called you dude.
Speaker 1:I know that probably pisses you off, but like, but when you've been hurt in the past yeah your brain gets used to lining up certain phrases or certain ways about going about conversations with negative aspects, right? So just a reminder that, yeah, everything we are talking about is out of love, yes, and, and it's certainly not to hurt feelings, or put blame on anybody.
Speaker 2:Well, and Jason and I never want to come from a place of a victim standpoint either. I think both of us have. I think I went through the growth a lot younger than you were able to, and that might come from you know, I've been in therapy since five years old because of specific traumas in my life and I was able to outgrow and outlearn the victim mindset pretty quickly in life. And that's not a place that you want to stay. You want to stay in because it always, it always does go back to this negative and it holds you back. If you can look at yourself as a survivor, as a warrior, put on, put you know as, as somebody who fiercely loves or whatever, put a, put a good, put a good spin on it, where you can start rewiring your brain to stop looking at yourself as a victim because you might have been a victim to something but you don't have to live as a victim yeah, change the neural pathways yeah, change those neural pathways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, change those neural pathways, change them, change them, alrighty. Should we move on? Yeah, let's do it, okay. So last week we mentioned that we wanted to talk more about the universal connection between you know, our Everything and anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, our existence.
Speaker 2:I think it is the other side of the balance of our existence. We have our human connection, our human life, our human existence, experience, whatever, and then we have our universal. The reason that I say universal is because I think it has more to do with energy and matter and life on this planet, which kind of is a segue into what we'd like to talk about first, which is LUCA.
Speaker 1:LUCA stands for L-U-C-A.
Speaker 2:Yes, luca stands for Last Universal Common Ancestor, so this is going back to it's kind of like the first living organism that they believe is the organism yeah, it is the og.
Speaker 2:What we can be traced, life can be traced back to. As far as this goes, um, it is a theory. It's not necessarily a which we know. Even in scientific fact, if new evidence comes upon, it can't be changed Right. But it is a theory. But it is. It has a lot of scientific backing and support, lots of things in science are theories, so it's not to discount it Right.
Speaker 2:The theory was it gained traction with um Charles Darwin because he deciphered its genetic code and found it universal across life on earth yeah, all living things on earth.
Speaker 1:He's found that had the same genetic code as this specific organism. So, right, right, that's why Aaliyah said that it kind of is thought to be what everything stemmed from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we were able to watch a documentary on Netflix. Yeah, that is called Life on Our Planet. It is amazing. We loved it. I did not want it to end. I would like to rewatch it soon.
Speaker 1:It's narrated by Morgan Freeman, if you're having trouble finding it, that should pretty much narrow it down. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it should be easy to find. Hopefully it's still on Netflix, but they talk about how it is. I saw it the other day.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, because I want to watch it again.
Speaker 2:Um. So basically they talk about how luca was formed from the sun's energy and water on earth?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think it was. There was. The organism was under the ocean, trapped next to like um hydrothermal vents from like underwater volcanoes, okay, and when the volcanoes were spewing out whatever they're spewing out the air and the hot air um it whatever they're spewing out the air and the hot air um it pushed it to the surface of the water where the sunlight could.
Speaker 2:Then, you know, start creating life right. So to me, when we're watching this, my little, my uh, existential OCD if y'all haven't heard of that, I recommend look into the different OCD types because OCD is a very broad term. But basically my brain likes to make connections to absolutely anything and everything that it can, and it's exhausting but also can be pretty helpful in life. But my brain is sitting there going, okay, we're living organisms on earth, we need sunlight, we're made out of water, right. And so my brain is kind of spinning and I'm like, okay, earth, sunlight, universal, right.
Speaker 2:And so then I just start spitting down this like we are made from stardust, like my brain is just exploding with like connections and being so excited to finally feel a connection to this like universal power, because I've always kind of I've always kind of had this connection to energy, but I couldn't quite understand it and realizing that we are living organisms on Earth and we are alive because, like we are alive, we are living like the plants, like the animals, like the amphibians, like everything. We are living because the sun's energy reacted to the water on our planet and from there, like, the rest, is history. This documentary goes into literally like what came after that, what came after Luca and then what came after that and what came after that, literally like what came after that, what came after luca and then what came after that and what came after that and what came after that and then, how did, how did these creatures begin from the ocean to then the land?
Speaker 2:and all this stuff, and it also goes through five different mass extinctions yeah the earth went through and yeah, which is just it's so, so crazy to see how things survived, how they evolved to survive longer, and also just put into perspective that the human race has not been around nearly as long as like anything else living on Earth.
Speaker 1:No, we're like a blink. Yeah, as like anything else living on earth.
Speaker 2:We're like a blink, yeah, and I think for a lot of people it did for me. It did for me because I have a God complex. She is there and she is thriving, my God complex, and it takes a hit on your ego. It definitely takes a hit on your ego, but it's also important to realize that, even though we are such a small blip, we do have a lot of power because of our ability to communicate with each other. That's what really set our evolution apart.
Speaker 2:Well it's the way that we communicate with each other, because there's plenty of other living things, but like speaking, like language talking right. That's why I say the way that we do right and it's literally comes down to talking right, like we can talk to each other and collaborate with each other. Yeah, problem solve more than just what's going on in our lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have thumbs, but I just love watching that documentary and seeing the connection between, literally, like our, our meat suits, right, our human connection. But there is a reason that people across all civilizations have tried to come up with the bigger why, right, everybody feels pulled towards this bigger thing. What that thing is up for debate, I don't think we'll ever know in our lifetimes. I truly don't, and I think I have a good theory going for myself, but it is evolving often because you like to challenge my theories, and maybe one day we'll get to talk about our theories about that on our podcast. I think that'd be really fun. But we all feel pulled towards this bigger thing thing, and I'll just quickly mention that the study of energy is something that is happening and is here and it's real. You can't deny it because it's there, there's proof, there's proof in the pudding, and I feel like that's important to note, because in the past you've kind of been the type to say like I don't really believe in all that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and I think this I don't want to credit fully, the Netflix documentary, but life on our planet, I think was a big step forward for me. Yeah, that area because just learning about Luca was very interesting to me. Yeah, and I was reading an article by Stephanie McClellan about Luca and she described it as if we descended backward down the evolutionary tree, what organism would we find at its roots? And that gives me a very it kind of paints a picture in my head of, okay, you know, we have the theory of evolution, pow, pow, pow, and eventually we got to humans. But if you trace that all the way back to the starting point, then it's like, okay, I can almost connect the dots of like I, really, how you got there?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm connected to everything between here, where I'm at now, and where it started yeah, well, and then also seeing where it started, how it's like literally coming, like literally the energy of the sun and the energy of the water, like, quite literally, we are created from energy. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, and thinking about luca in this manner definitely helps me to feel more connected to all those things that are between myself and the original organism. Right, and for me specifically, it's not that I've I'm not a complete hater on the on energy. You know what I mean. There are aspects of it that I'm still trying to come around to that seem a little far-fetched for me, right.
Speaker 2:I think it's almost the interpretations of energy that you have a harder time grasping.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's a lot of the stuff that is not necessarily I can't physically see the evidence behind it. Yeah, I can't physically see the evidence behind it. Yeah, but throughout my life I have had a fairly strong connection to nature, and what I mean by that is I've just always enjoyed being in nature. Yeah, growing up that was something that, when I lived with my mom, my brother and I would do all the time together, and then when I moved in with my dad, my dad and I and my brother on my dad's side would go out and do a lot of hikes, go out into nature, and even now as an adult, when we go up to the canyon and take the dogs out to get a little fresh air, just being away from all the man-made things yeah and being surrounded by earth's natural formations, the things that earth has naturally grown right something about it feels not just relaxing, but it gives me a certain sense of like euphoria yeah, like a natural high right and literally yeah.
Speaker 1:And on top of my connection to mother earth, mother nature, I've also always felt pretty connected to animals. I mean, that's what I went to college for was to to work with animals. But so those those two things I know it's not much in the grand scheme of everything, um, but they're definitely things that help me to feel and understand everything that we're talking about. On an energetic level. Because it's not just that I've forced myself to like those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you've always had this connection.
Speaker 1:I've always naturally felt inclined to seek out nature, seek out animals. Inclined to seek out nature, seek out animals. Um, I totally uh. All the time when I see crazy videos of lions or tigers and people petting them, it's like, ah, I just want that to be me, I just want to grab a lion by its mane and just you know.
Speaker 2:And in my head, for whatever reason, it's just like, oh, maybe it would let me be cool with it, maybe in a different life, but honestly, I feel like most people have some sort, whether it is something where, like you, can only relate it to being in nature, or to being around animals, or something. There is this pull, this like energetic pull that you just are, are pulled towards this, and it's funny that you, like you know being out in nature getting the fresh air, because literally the other day it went from 70 degrees, the next day it was snowing. So, yeah, we, so we ended up going outside because the dogs really wanted to. But I even found myself like let's just go, because we've gotten into such a habit of being outside and getting that fresh air that when we are just like in the house, I'm like, get me out of here, I need some fresh air, I need some, like I just want to breathe. Yeah, the walls are closing in. I know it's freezing outside, it's literally snowing, but let's just bundle up, get the umbrella.
Speaker 1:Let's go. And when you were working more than you are now and I was at the house a lot more by myself yeah, that's really when I was in that bad place because there were so many days that I just wouldn't force myself to get out- yeah. And I had to train myself. Oh, I'm starting to feel like crap. Yeah, that means I need to get out of this house. Right, I need to go feel the sun.
Speaker 2:Well, and you're really good about that now, actually realizing that you're starting to feel that way and like we need to get out, we need to go do something, and I'm like, yep, heard, let's go, cause I got. I'm feeling the same way Cause we're so used to doing it now. So, like recognizing those triggers of like I need to get out of the house, these walls are closing in. I'm feeling depressed because you do have a history of depression. It's important to stay on top of those things and I think anybody who takes the time to make a habit of going outside and sit with nature and meditate.
Speaker 1:You can walk around and hug trees, like Aliyah does. Yeah, I do hug trees sometimes.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you just really need a good, a quick grounding and hug a tree. But sitting outside and just like meditating in nature, slowly, over time, you're going to, you're going to realize that it's deeper. And give it a try, like, make it a goal to go outside every day. And luckily we do live in modern times where we have access to, you know, coats and hats and gloves. If it's cold, bundle up.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and one thing I can say with energy is that it's it's scientifically proven that everything on earth has energy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Even you know this laptop. Anything that's in here, that's man-made, that's natural. Whatever the case may be, every single item on the face of this earth has energy to it, and that energy is just waiting to be acted upon.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, and so in that sense I definitely can understand. Okay, maybe there's a little bit more to the aspect of energy than I've been willing to give credit to in the past and at some point I think that your, your mind and your body will remember and it'll be like one day you didn't, you were practicing grounding and you didn't feel it, but then the next day you might feel it comes down to practicing and trying.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And practicing and trying. I just want to hit on that is that, just that's something that you absolutely have to do? I am not anywhere near the level I would say as Aaliyah when it comes to these things.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'm not even I'm not even on a super high level of it either, I'm just more than you made, attempts, yeah and I've made maybe like literally three or something like that right but then, when Aaliyah and I take part in activities that involve energy, there's times where I will get discouraged because Aaliyah has what I would say is more of an experience than I feel like I had yeah and then it starts to feel like I think there's a good amount of it that has to do with my ego and you don't say and wanting to also feel those things, um, but also it feels at times discouraging because I'm like, oh crap, like I just don't feel those things, so I don't believe in it.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah, keep going. Sorry to cut you off yeah, no, that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it definitely. It takes practice and it may feel silly practicing these things, but I think that it's important to note that you have to try and put in the work and if it's something especially that has, like it has scientific backing and it doesn't necessarily mean that these practices that other cultures may have is the only right way to do it, but it's worth researching into them and seeing how do these people practice these things and and what does it mean to them, where, where do their minds go and really learn about where these practices come from?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean, it reminds me of the four agreements and the Aztec culture, Toltec, Toltec, sorry, the Toltec culture that pretty much gave us the four agreements. And I'm sitting here reading that book like man. It might take me a lifetime to nail down these agreements. And then you continue reading through the book and come to find out oh, this is just like a very small smidge of what they practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and also I think it's important to practice cultural appreciation and not appropriation, because there is this big wave of like new age things that are taking these ancient practices and twisting them to benefit them today, and I think that that's wrong. I think that we should appreciate the culture around us, look into it, educate yourself. We live in times that we can have so much access to information.
Speaker 1:Educate yourself, find people of that culture, ask them questions, be involved and, like, do more research than just oh, I've heard of this yeah, well, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I kind of see it as like a it's it's okay to to kind of adopt these things and use them and practice them in our own lives, but I wouldn't go as far as to kind of sell these things as our own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, I am a white woman, so speaking on these things definitely isn't like this is my. The reason I believe this way is because of the things that I've seen other people of color and of other cultures say, and I try to be very aware of these things because I think that it's really important to make sure that we're not selling these things as our own, because this is something their cultural practices, is something that they hold so near and dear to their heart. Yeah, it's like, it's like religion, yes, and and this has been they've been practicing since they have come out of the womb like this is something that their ancestors practice. This is very close and near and dear to their heart and it's literally part of who they are, like Luca.
Speaker 2:Yes, and to just take that and make it yours, that is not okay. It's not. And to think that it is. There's just so many levels of wrong to that to me. Why can't we just appreciate each other and take things that resonate with us and apply them to our lives, but understand and be educated to where those things came from and what they mean at the deeper level? Right, we shouldn't just hear it and take it and run or use it to get clicks. Right, use it to get clicks. Use it to make money? No, go out and find companies that are owned by these cultures and these practices and originated from and have the, the deep-rooted love and understanding and, and they've been accumulating research of these things for so long, because they are, a lot of the time, ancient practices, and that is where I think a lot of people, especially white people from america, just don't understand. But we have so much access to information. Now, allow yourself to understand. Sit down and think about how it would make you feel if somebody did that to your family.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think that's the big thing is even before you. I feel like you have to make it a point. I'm going to research on this subject, but before I research on this subject, on this subject, but before I research on this subject, I'm going to get in touch with who I am, truly. Not who society has made you to be, not who you have allowed yourself to become, but get in touch with your natural self and then go about researching these things.
Speaker 2:Well, and also coming from a place of love.
Speaker 1:Right, because I've been in a place where I'll go do research and in my head I'll have a negative expectation going into it. Yeah, and then every single time that I research something with that negative thought process, my mind doesn't change because I'm not open to change.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But if you go into it not being willing, if you go into it being willing to be proven wrong, I think that's what you do, Not saying I'm going to go in here and my mind is going to be changed because I don't think that's right either. Yeah, but go in there and give it a chance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and also just listen to the experiences of the people around you and because of social media, the people around you can be a pretty big people around you. You know, and, and we are one, yeah, and we should look at it that way, and especially the people that you know a lot of. There's always the joke of, like, what culture does white people have? Right, because America Right, like, especially in America, and the amazing thing is is like we can change. Now. We are not. We don't need to be defined by our ancestors. If we can make a valiant effort to change it, we don't need to be the same.
Speaker 1:We can appreciate, we can learn, we can collaborate, we can coexist and it's like the only way that we're gonna prosper yeah, and I again, I don't want to go down this road too much, but I don't believe that there is a whole lot of culture that white people have in America because of the way that we got here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But that's not to say we're not creating a culture right now.
Speaker 2:Right, we're in the midst of creating it right now. And what do we want that to look like? Because, right now, most of the world outside of America they do not like Americans, and rightfully so, because we have not made a great impact with our influence now, yeah, and even just visiting other countries and stuff like that, I don't think people have had a whole lot of positive experiences.
Speaker 2:Right, and change starts with us, and so we have to be willing to swallow our pride and our ego and say I'm willing to listen, because you know I did. I did come from from a background of being a little bit more on the like. What do you mean? These things are appropriating culture? Yeah, I didn't know what that meant. No, I had to go research and learn and listen, listen to experiences of other people, educate myself on different cultures and what those practices meant to them was deeper yeah, educate your children yeah educate the people that you are around um as much as possible.
Speaker 1:I know it's not always realistic not everyone's open to those sorts of conversations, um, but yeah, right now is the time to change a lot of this right, well, and then also going back to Luca, and that we all did come from this thing.
Speaker 2:Right, we all came from this and we are all made of stardust. And the reason that I say that is literally because the elements I'm gonna read off my iPod, so I make sure that I say it all right, but the elements produced and dispersed by stars, including carbon, nitrogen, oxygen and iron, essential components of our bodies and the environment, were once part of an interstellar medium. The matter that exists in space between stars over astronomical time scales, this matter can co. What does that say?
Speaker 2:coalesce yeah can coalesce under gravity to form new stars and planetary systems. So the reason that I say this is because the concept that we are made of stardust has significantly scientific backing. It's a poetic way of expressing these things, but it is a fundamental truth about the composition of the universe and everything in it, including life on earth, and the form, the formation of the solar system. On earth. Our solar system formed about 4.6 billion years ago from a molecular cloud containing a mix of elements from previous generations of stars. This means that the atoms that make up planets, including Earth and everything on them, were once part of the stars. The carbon in our cells, the oxygen we breathe, the calcium in our bones and the iron in our blood were all forged in the heart of stars and distributed through the galaxy before becoming part of the molecular cloud that collapsed to form the sun and its orbiting planets.
Speaker 1:That's a lot.
Speaker 2:I know it's kind of mind-boggling, boggling. And then it also goes into I mean, if y'all know me, you know I'm an astrology girly but it also kind of goes to explain why the Earth's energy and our energy, being a part of Earth, has the ability to have patterns with the energy of other planets. Right, because if the other planet, if earth, was created from these things, the other planets were as well. Hell, the sun was created by it. Like it's just kind of mind-blowing.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think astrology is just a way to explain those things and patterns that humans have interpreted over so many years. Astrology is one of the oldest practices and it's just a way of explaining those patterns. So I don't necessarily think of it as fact, and I think that's where you get caught up in astrology is. You think it's like oh, it's either factors you know what I mean and like it's just not the way that I look at the belief system and it doesn't mean that astrology is the answer or anything like that, but it goes to explain this kind of bigger than ourselves type thing that can go into so many different things. Yeah, just crazy, just crazy, just crazy.
Speaker 2:But I think one of the answers of healing involves healing this connection, not only with our one side of the balance, which is our human connection, but healing the balance of our universal connection, because there is something bigger than us there is. And how are we as a society going to choose to connect those things? Because it is up to us and society needs to have standards, especially because there's so many of us now, like the earth is overpopulated, natural selection does not happen anymore because of modern science, people that wouldn't survive now survive. It's just a fact, not saying that they don't deserve to at all. But what are we going to do with that? Because we have this power to keep human life on earth. So what are we going to do about it?
Speaker 2:not just human yes, all we have to respect all life, just like human yes, because we are not better than we are, simply a blip.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we just watched that other documentary talking about discussing how all life on Earth pretty much helps each other to keep the Earth going Like the volcanoes here help the rainforest here.
Speaker 2:Like it's crazy. Yeah, what was that one called?
Speaker 1:um, maybe just like our planet or something like that. There's another one on netflix.
Speaker 2:I'm telling y'all, documentaries are the way to go. They're so fun to watch. Okay, I think we'll just kind of wrap it up there. As far as the topics go, I know that this was kind of a longer, heavier episode than we were intending.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But please take the time to like. If you need to pause the podcast and come back another day, please feel free to. We will not be offended, but we'd love to hear what you think. And we just wanted to wrap up with one more connection question real quick, from our game. It will be a quick one that we'll answer. We're going to do the couple's edition, this time from the skin deep, and it'll be a quick one. We won't go off on tangents. Okay, this is kind of a fun question. What would you be doing differently if we weren't together?
Speaker 1:Who knows Right?
Speaker 2:Because we have been together for a good chunk of time now. We've been in each other's lives for about seven years.
Speaker 1:Six, if you're not counting the year that we were not in each other's lives. If we weren't together, I think there's a very good chance. I would be not very well off in life. I think I would have went down a path that would have been very damaging to me, not just emotionally but physically as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could see that. Or, like I don't know, did you reenlist in the military?
Speaker 1:nothing could have got me to do that.
Speaker 2:I mean not that you're you would have medically been able to either, but who knows? Yeah, I.
Speaker 1:No, if we weren't together, I would have reenlisted, so I could have gotten med boarded, I truly don't know what I would be doing differently.
Speaker 2:I mean, I would have never moved to North Carolina and I think that was actually a really big it was a really big thing for me to step outside of the environment that I grew up in.
Speaker 1:To the ghetto.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't need to talk about the city of Fayetteville, um, but I truly don't know, because I think I would have been, I think I would have been okay, I think I had enough.
Speaker 1:I think you would have fallen apart.
Speaker 2:No, I think that I would have been okay, but I think that I would have been okay with only being okay for a lot longer than I ever that I have now, because I have been forced to open my eyes to some of my behavior that is not healthy or okay, when I thought that I was doing a lot better. And I think that you've allowed me that space to be able to finally see that. And who knows, maybe I would have found it myself or somebody else would have brought it out, or whatever. But I don't. I do not regret us being together, so I would hope not. So I don't know. I have no idea what my career would look like.
Speaker 1:No idea, because we have definitely grown a lot together yeah, I mean that's a tough question for anybody because there's a million different ways life takes all of us right based off of like tiny little thing, yeah, like one little decision.
Speaker 2:yeah, well, and us being together now is highly reliant on somebody else's decisions. Like to be in somebody else's life and then we found our way back to each other, like it's very dependent on somebody else's decisions, which is crazy to think about.
Speaker 2:Chance fate whatever you want to call it yeah yeah, but I have absolutely no to call it yeah yeah, but I have absolutely no idea what we would be doing differently. I feel like we've really started building life together in a very positive way, so it's kind of hard to even think about that at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Anyways love you Good question though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's something, something very interesting to think about provoking yeah, yeah, who knows, who knows?
Speaker 2:that's crazy. Okay, well, I think I think we'll just wrap it up. If you guys have any questions or thoughts, please share them Again. Instagram is kind of the best place to do that. Also, our YouTube comments is a good place to do that as well. We appreciate any interaction that you guys have. It's going to you know our success on the show is going to be heavily influenced by your guys' interactions and feedback, so we very much appreciate it. Also, we would love for you guys to follow us talkitout__show on Instagram or this week. If you're feeling like leaving us a little review. We would also enjoy that if you've already followed us on Instagram. But I think that that's everything. Is there anything else that?
Speaker 1:you'd like to say I don't think so.
Speaker 2:Alrighty, well, perfect.
Speaker 1:Yes, Thanks y'all.
Speaker 2:We're done, peace out.
