TALK IT OUT
Welcome to Talk It Out, the thought-provoking podcast that brings engaging discussions, insightful interviews, and interactive segments right to your screen. Our dynamic hosts dive deep into a wide range of topics, exploring the complexities of life, relationships, current events, and much more. With expert guests, lively debates, and a belief in creating an inclusive space, Talk It Out challenges conventional wisdom, encourages critical thinking, and fosters understanding and empathy. Through interactive segments and viewer participation, we ensure that your voice is heard and valued. Join us on this exhilarating journey of discovery, where every episode is a gateway to enlightenment and connection.
TALK IT OUT
S1 E10 - Confronting Religious Beliefs and Personal Truths
Can the promises of eternity truly comfort us during times of loss? Join us as we navigate the intricate world of the LDS Church through the eyes of a 29-year-old woman from Phoenix, Arizona, who identifies as an inactive member. We dissect her experiences and insights, exploring the often stark lines between active and inactive membership, the responsibilities entailed in church callings, and the deep-seated focus on family and eternal promises. Through her narrative, we examine how these elements can offer solace but also provoke deeper questions about authenticity and personal faith.
Family values are a cornerstone of the Mormon faith, but what happens when these ideals clash with real-life complexities like divorce? We discuss how the church's strong emphasis on family can sometimes lead to judgmental attitudes and narcissistic behaviors, particularly in Utah’s concentrated LDS community. Hear first-hand accounts of the treatment of divorced families within the church and the impact of this on members' faith. The need for transparent dialogue about the church's controversial history is another focal point, highlighting the strain secrecy and historical opacity can place on individual belief systems.
Finally, we tackle the cultural pressures within Mormonism and the church’s approach to questioning and doubt. Comparing these dynamics to unhealthy relationship patterns, we critique how leadership discourages criticism and fosters a culture of control and suppression. Our conversation isn't just about the LDS Church; it’s a broader discussion on respecting diverse beliefs, balancing personal morals with religious doctrines, and the challenges of transitioning between faith systems. We aim to spark a dialogue that includes voices from various religious backgrounds, enriching our collective understanding and experience. Listen in and share your thoughts on navigating faith, identity, and the quest for authenticity.
Welcome to Talk it Out. We're your hosts. I'm Jason.
Speaker 2:And I'm Aaliyah. Let's get into it. Hey, everyone, welcome back to Talk it Out. We are on the second episode of our Beliefs and Religion series. We've had a pretty good response to the series, so I'm pretty excited about that, excited to see where it takes us and where you guys are willing to share your stories and stuff like that. Um, last time we just talked a lot about kind of our experience a little bit with the church and growing up and whatever. So if you haven't seen that episode, highly recommend you go download that.
Speaker 2:In that episode we did talk about our little questionnaire that we put together that we wanted you guys to fill out. So we wanted to kind of like go through a few responses today and also talk about some of our answers to the questions as well and our insights and our thoughts. Was there anything you wanted to say before we get started? No, cool, let's just jump into it. Okay, so this is a 29 year old female who is in phoenix, arizona. In Phoenix, arizona, their current belief system and or religion is LDS and they consider themselves inactive. So that's definitely a big thing. Like in the Mormon church is there's active members and inactive members and there's like it's, I mean, for as long as I can remember, like it's always like a topic of discussion in church is like the inactive members.
Speaker 2:Basically, it just what it boils down to is if you are consistently involved with activities within the Mormon church, yeah, like going to church and then also like there are other activities that go on throughout the week, going to those participating in like callings, which how do you explain callings? Is that like a pretty, like self-responding thing?
Speaker 1:No, how do you explain callings?
Speaker 2:is that like a pretty like?
Speaker 1:self-responding thing. No, um, like it's like, it's just like how, like a lot of churches will have a pastor, somebody that's leading the congregation um, it's kind of in that same wheelhouse where it just it's responsibilities within the organization that they give to just like regular everyday members of that church.
Speaker 2:You can be called to be like a teacher, to teach a group of people on Sundays, either like kids, teenagers, adults. Then there's also like callings of like kids, teenagers, adults.
Speaker 1:Then there's also like callings of like. I just feel like we're getting too deep into it for like just to answer okay, well, last time you were like we need to say like break it all down so I feel like I have to break it all down, start breaking down the mormon church. We're gonna be here for six hours, right, like that's not a dig, that's just like there's a lot to it. Yeah, there's a lot to explain yeah.
Speaker 2:So the next question is what are things that you love about your current belief system and or religion? And they said I love that the family is the focal point, it's familiar and the promise of eternity. I feel like that is a huge. Those are things that a lot of people who are.
Speaker 2:Let me read that henry's whining was distracting me like those are a lot of things that people who are members, or active members or inactive members, I would say are things that, like, they hold on to and they love about that belief not only that, but I think it's.
Speaker 1:Those are the things that are. Those are the things that kind of draw people toward it to begin with yeah because you know, the world we live in, especially today, is pretty messed up and like when someone sees an organization or anything really that is promising them eternity.
Speaker 1:Like with their family and loved ones right like yeah, I don't know how deep I want to get into this get deep into it but for me personally, like that's one of those areas where I see it going both ways, like the promise of eternity, that alone, like I see how people are drawn toward it, but it also makes me question the authenticity behind it. Right.
Speaker 2:Because, because it sounds so good.
Speaker 1:It just sounds good. It's like talking to somebody who's telling you everything that you want to hear yeah and that's like the vibe that it puts off. For me personally, yeah, because of course, when you lose family members especially when it's not one in a situation of they just had old age and passed away- yeah, like something tragic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when it's a tragedy and they die early and people are having a really difficult time wrapping their heads around how to move on and how to deal with that, I think it's easy to take that route and kind of like use it as an escape of like oh, they're telling me that I'm going to get to see them again, that I'm going to get to have an afterlife where I spend forever with them, and so, of course, people who are in the midst of tragedy are going to cling on to something like that because it gives them a sense of hope. Right, and without the promise of an afterlife, it's very difficult to come to grips with those things for a lot of people, I think yeah, absolutely well, and like I don't know.
Speaker 2:for for me, I have always struggled, actually, like this is one thing that kind of stood out to me growing up is when people would lose people due to anything any like death situation. People would always say, like I know, I'm going to see them again, and there was always something in the back of my mind that was like you don't know that, though. There was always something in the back of my mind that was like you don't know that, though.
Speaker 1:like yeah, that sounds really great, but you don't know that. Yeah well, and I don't know how other religions kind of deal with it, but in the Mormon religion, especially if you grow up in the Mormon religion, you're being told these things from the second. You can really even like start thinking for yourself.
Speaker 1:Well, not even that, but like literally before, when you're, when you're developing your cognitive thoughts these are the things that you're hearing Right, like parents will have their kids go up in the middle of a church meeting and they'll go up with the kid and like whisper in their ear like this is what you're supposed to say right now, which is like bearing your testimony of the church, like right and then.
Speaker 1:So it's always just this. From a very young age or from the time that you become involved in it, you're being told that an afterlife is real and in a lot of instances, you are highly encouraged to vocally repeat those things yourself. I know that this church is a true church. I know that there's an afterlife. I know that I'm going to see these people again. So I feel like when you're saying those things month after month, year after year to yourself, it's just like with anything else. Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you speak it, you're going to start believing it.
Speaker 2:Right, well, and also I do think that it's really important to note the aspect of children in churches because developmentally, to be like saying those things over and over again, it is a programming like you are setting kids up to be programmed into this belief system and and that's not meant it's like to be a slight or anything- like that.
Speaker 1:But it's just like with any parent. Yeah, all parents program their children. That's what parenting is. Yeah, you're passing down your beliefs. You're passing down the things that you think are true, and maybe you're not necessarily forcing those things upon your children, but just in a sense of those are the only things that they're hearing time after time. It is almost like you're forcing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, and I think that's why it's so important to evaluate your beliefs, your behavior, your background. It is so important to be able to evaluate those things because if you are a parent, if you are an adult, you were programmed as well and you should be able to evaluate why you believe the things that you believe in to evaluate why you believe the things that you believe in and when I think there's a.
Speaker 1:There comes a time for all of us where, regardless of what we've been taught and what we've been told, we're going to have our own thoughts. Yeah, and not everybody follows through with those. They kind of just lean on relying on what they've always been told. Right. But I think it's important to challenge your beliefs. Yeah. Regardless of what you believe in. Yeah. You need to challenge your beliefs. You need to have that open mind. Right. Because a closed mind, no matter what side you're on, how you're looking at things, is not appropriate?
Speaker 2:I don't think no not when we're humans with the capability to have like the greatest brains on earth right like.
Speaker 1:It is your responsibility to handle that responsibility right and so like, if you, if you grow up believing in a god, you should at least be open to hearing the other side. And and especially if you are having those thoughts of like I don't know about this, then I mean you should think about it, yeah, and if, on the other end of the coin, like if you think there's no way there's a god and this and that, then you should at least be open to learning about the other side. Yeah, and if you and either way, if you don't agree with what you're hearing or what you're seeing afterward, then it is what it is, you know, but at least have that open mind to then. It is what it is, you know, but at least have that open mind to think about things.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, I also do think that it's important that we base our beliefs. It gets tricky, especially with it being like an election year and people say, you know, like why can't we just have different beliefs? And like why can't it just have different beliefs? And like why can't it just be left at that? Those are not the kind of beliefs that we're talking about right now, like there there are things that are okay and are not okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like the worth of somebody's life should not come into question yeah, if I believe it's okay to go out in the street and murder 18 people, yeah, I don't think anyone should say, oh well, you should.
Speaker 2:That's his belief.
Speaker 1:That's his belief, so we should be able to respect that Right.
Speaker 2:But we also should be able to hold.
Speaker 1:There are still beliefs that are wrong. Yeah, morally wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we should be able to hold each other accountable for those things and also offer each other grace. When we we've been programmed to think a certain way and we're coming out of that or we're still in it, we should still be able to give each other grace. So that's like one of the biggest reasons with this survey. The way that I, like in Jason, worded things and wanted things to be presented is because we want it to be in a way where it's like go deep into this, like what the next question is is there?
Speaker 1:what I did want to say just on that first one, I do one thing about religion and about the Mormon church um, and I think it does get a lot of people, is when they said I, they love that family is the focal point, because that is to me a positive within that religion and the religions that I've heard of, is just the importance behind the family.
Speaker 1:I do think that that is personally. I think that should be everybody's main focal point. The focal point, yeah, the most important thing in your life should be your family. And that's not to say you grow up in a situation, like I did, where some of those bridges may have been burned a little bit, there might be some hurt, things that need to be worked through. That doesn't mean like, oh, I'm gonna freaking go to bat for them the same that I would alia, because this family and the dogs, like that's the number one priority to me yeah and I and that's why that's what I mean when I say I think family should be the focal point.
Speaker 1:It's like, not necessarily your parents, but the family that you chose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, specifically in the Mormon religion is there is certain behaviors and certain literally like personality disorders that run rampant in the church. Narcissism is huge, huge in the Mormon church. It's just something that feeds that narcissistic tendency in people and narcissism is a learned behavior. There's a lot of generational members of the church, so it makes a lot of sense and the family should be the focal, but not just the family, but a healthy family should be your focal point and I think that's where things get a little bit tricky within the church is within the Mormon church. Is that like?
Speaker 1:Where are your priorities within the family?
Speaker 2:Yes, and also like it's not about just looking like this perfect specimen of a family, right, I know that's a huge thing.
Speaker 2:Luckily it wasn't really anything that I dealt with like personally growing up, but I know a lot of people did of this like image of her family and that might be because I literally had like a divorced mom and it was like a thing in the church like divorce is not it's more accepted now, but it is still like pretty taboo and especially back in like the early 2000s, very taboo. So my mom dealt with a lot of like, a lot of not okay things said to her and like behaviors, but she decided to like stay and help people see a different side and stuff like that. But anyways, I just think that that's something that's big in the Mormon church that a lot of people talk about is like the family is the focal point. But also, what focal point is the is the Mormon church actually saying is important when it comes to the family and it should be a healthy family unit unit, and I hope to see that change more personally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just wonder what they mean when they say it's familiar, like is it just?
Speaker 2:they just feel that way, just feels familiar yeah, or like maybe it's um they it's something that they practiced young, and so it just seems yeah yeah anyways.
Speaker 2:Next question is there anything about your current belief system and or religion that you don't like or agree with or hope changes? They said I struggle with the people and the higher ups. Inherently, lds members tend to be judgmental, more so those in Utah. I never had a problem with my faith till I moved to Utah. I also wish the church was more upfront about the shady or things we aren't proud of as a member member. It really messed with my face to fight with my with my face, my faith, to find out things about the church from those who hated it.
Speaker 2:I love so many points of this because I I really struggle when people say like I love the church. I just like I can't stand the church culture and I think that people need to remember that, like the culture also builds the church right. It's the face of the Mormon church, of any, any church, and it's important.
Speaker 1:And If you don't want to see, Well, not only that, but like, if we really want to break things down here, the culture. If the culture is bad, what's influencing the culture to be that way? Yeah, that's a very true point like there's a reason that people act and say the things that they do yeah it's probably because the teachings are making them feel validated in doing so yeah, absolutely and I think that the like when they say more so in Utah, I totally get it.
Speaker 1:I mean, I've heard my whole life like Utah, Mormons are different than any other Mormon but like they are the Mormons, we are in the literal like nesting place. Yeah, nesting place yeah, but obviously I lived in several states when I was still Mormon and states outside of Utah Arizona, georgia, north Carolina, all those places. It was a lot more chill. The judgments and just all the negativity that you typically hear out of LDS members is lessened dramatically when you're not in the state.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, and I wonder if that is just such a like there's a concentration of Mormons here. Well, and I wonder if that is just such a like there's a concentration of Mormons here, and so we don't have that like diversity that makes people see outside of themselves. Yeah, I think that has a big part to do with it.
Speaker 1:You can convince yourself, if you're only hanging around people who are like you, that everybody is that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that everybody is that way. Yeah, um, I also do like that she had said um, I wish that the church was more upfront about the shady things or the things that they aren't proud of, because it really messed with their faith. To find out things about the church from those who hated it and I do think that that's a really good point to make is that, if you are, it is okay to admit the things that were done in the past were done and that they were wrong. Not only that, I think that it is important. If it's something that you're burying and trying to hide, then clearly there's some wrong feelings around it and you should be able to put those things out.
Speaker 1:Well, not even that there's wrong feelings around it, but that you believe it was wrong or is wrong. Yeah, if you don't think something that you've done is wrong, there's no reason for you to hide it. Yeah, that's just like psychology 101.
Speaker 2:Right. Well and honestly, I think that is a big part. That is a big thing when people start kind of deconstructing those beliefs, and specifically within the Mormon church, that they realize that that's the fact that it was hidden and clearly it was wrong well, and again, um, I'm not saying I'm not going to say anything on here with the intentions of just being rude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like I said in last week's episode, there's going to be things that I say that are probably going to offend people if you're not willing to look at it with a certain lens, because I'm going to speak my beliefs according to what they are and again, they don't line up with what a lot of members of the LDS faith accept Right.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's why you aren't a member of that church anymore.
Speaker 1:Right. But with that talking about the church being more upfront about the shady things that they aren't proud of and this is why I kind of prefaced with what I did is so that I could say this is one of the things that really bugged me and continues to bug me about the Mormon church is that there is like there's a lot of shady things that have happened, just like with any other organization in the world, but the thing that bugs me is that, first off, it's swept under the rug. Secondly, when you're a member of the faith, the church leaders will tell you basically not to follow questions that you have about it. If you have questions about it, they say, oh, just have faith and drop it. Like, if you go out of your way to get answers about the doubts that you have, it's basically it's almost looked at as like a sin to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, they're literally like. This is something I remember growing up. I was middle school, high school age, and they had a general conference which we talked about what that is last time. But somebody literally said doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith. And that is actually something I remember. When it was said, I was still in the church. That's something that stood out to me where I was. Like that seems wrong.
Speaker 1:It is because if you took a step back and put it into a context of a relationship and I was to tell my wife or anyone was to tell their spouse don't, if you have doubts about our relationship, don't.
Speaker 2:Essentially, doubt your doubts, doubt the fact that you are having doubts about this or you doubt me, like that's controlling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is plain and simple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's why it is so manipulative and I remember when I heard that it was something that I actually think about often, because it is something that I still see often. And I think that it is so manipulative and Well, and it's brainwashing. Yeah, it and, and I'm like this is our opinions, but that is just wrong.
Speaker 1:It is wrong I mean, it is our opinions, but what we're saying also is backed by science as well. Yeah, so true very true.
Speaker 2:and then I also saw um something that had popped up on my timeline actually recently, that Dallin H Oaks, which is somebody who is a high up leader in the church, in the Mormon church, had said and I'll just play this clip real quick it's wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true I'm sorry. What, what, what?
Speaker 2:there's so many levels of like that that should be sending off like red flags to you there are people who are going to watch this and they're going to want to freaking fight us about this I know because they're that wrapped up in it I know and honestly, like I'm not saying that you can't believe in this church and you can't like do it, but do not be ignorant to the things that they are saying and teaching and influencing you to believe touched on it last week with feeling like I don't really get the respect that I'm willing to give out to religious people in the context that, you know, when I state my beliefs, oftentimes especially here in Utah people feel the need to correct my beliefs and interject with what belief?
Speaker 1:in the middle of me saying what I'm, what I believe in. And if you want to, you know, believe what you believe. You know, do your thing. I don't care.
Speaker 1:But if we're gonna have an issue, these are the types of things that I'm gonna bring up yeah like if you're going, if I feel like I'm being attacked, my beliefs are being attacked or being devalued, I'm sorry, but I'm not Jesus. I'm not going to turn the other cheek ever. You will never see me turn the other cheek. I am very much law of Moses eye for an eye. The way that you treat me is the way that I'm going to treat you. Yeah, period. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which I think that there could be a very happy medium in this. I think there can be a happy medium as well.
Speaker 1:But I'm just saying, if I get disrespected, yeah, at that point you know, everything that I've been doing to try and be respectful is no more right.
Speaker 2:Well, and at the end of the day, this podcast is like. We are the host of this podcast and we held certain beliefs that we do not hold anymore and that we have deconstructed ourselves, and so we're gonna share those with you guys. And it doesn't mean that we don't value your guys's stories and why you believe and all that. We do value those things, but this is our experiences, our opinions, our beliefs our breakdown of why you may think that way.
Speaker 1:We're not just engaging in conversations like this with everybody out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And just like being rude about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but to continue with their answers, the next next question was have you had any different belief systems and or religions in the past? If so, what were they? She said that her family wasn't active until she was 10, but they were always. I did, they always identified with the lds church. So I think that's maybe why they, like she would say that it was familiar, right, like it was something that, even though they weren't active until she was older, it's probably something that they were still like, teaching similar principles of yeah and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Um, so the next question is why did you leave your past belief system and or religion? How do you feel about it? Um and I think they're answering this question more of like why they're inactive they said even when I hated the people in the organization, I never left because of them. I always left because my relationship with God, which is a whole can of worms. I left because the pressure of being perfect weighed too much on my mental health, so I just didn't want to think about disappointing God, and I think that that's something that Jason could definitely like identify with.
Speaker 1:I talked about that on the last episode, that that was a huge thing for me was the guilt and shame that comes with falling short of being yeah, expected to be perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Next one is what has been helpful and hurtful as you've chosen a different belief system and or religion than friends and family. She said I'm still lds, but on my own terms, I still want to be authentic to your own morals and beliefs. When the church does demand certain expectations, I don't think that it's like an absolute you can't, but that is something that, when it came to me, choosing not to be a part of the Mormon church stood out to me is that I realized that I couldn't be authentic to my own morals and beliefs authentic to your own morals and beliefs, but to be authentic to both things at the exact same time.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's possible for like being authentic to being in the church, and right because if you're, if you're already feeling this way of like the church expects too much of me, expects me to be perfect in a way that I can't be like like that's where I get confused, and you know this with my dad and my stepmom, like they're this right here where it's like they believe in some of the fundamentals of the Mormon church, some of the fundamentals of the Mormon church and they go with like pretty consistently, are involved with it, but also their everyday lives they don't really live in a way that is that lines up with it, you know, and so for me it's like I just have a hard time seeing the point of like holding on to both things at the same time because they are different to the extent that, again, you just almost can't say that you believe in this and believe in this in the same breath.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, and I think that that is something that was really hard for me to come to terms with when I decided that I couldn't and wouldn't believe in the church anymore, is because I remember I literally wanted to figure out a way to somehow be like a Mormon with more like Buddhist-type beliefs, and like, tried to like make this like I can be both type of a situation and realizing that like I couldn't.
Speaker 1:Well, and I feel, like you can, but not in the sense of, like going to a place of worship and doing it that way yeah, but like there's nothing to say that you can't adopt oh yeah, teachings and philosophies from multiple different religions and just kind of incorporate them into your own life in your own way, yeah, and still have faith, and still have a belief in a God or whatever. Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1:So it's just. I don't think anybody needs to go to an actual building to be religious. I don't think you have to be surrounded by a congregation of other people who believe the same as you. To have beliefs. Yeah. You can believe all of those things within the four walls of your house.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah. And I mean Jason said in the last episode like he doesn't have a problem with religion, and I would probably say that, like I personally, I do have a bigger problem with religion, with organized religion, because it does just put people in boxes, it puts beliefs in boxes, it like, and and that's so. It's sad to me. It's sad to me that, especially coming from I was born into a religion I do feel like there are certain parts of my expansion as a human that were delayed because I was not introduced to more beliefs yeah, you weren't given a choice yeah, um.
Speaker 2:Next question is if you've left a religion, what's something you wish you could say to people still in the religion? And they said be true to yourself, which I mean. I think that that's just a really good. That's a good principle to live by is to be true to yourself, and what that looks like is going to differ from person to person well, and I think that pretty much hits the nail on the head for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah Is to be true to yourself. Yeah. That's the whole reason that I want nothing to do with any religion. But especially why I want nothing to do with the LDS religion is because it is not in the slightest true to myself. Yeah. I don't feel good when I'm involved with it. Yeah and it it just it doesn't ring true to me on any level.
Speaker 1:Um, but there's other people who maybe it does yeah but also we need to be honest with ourselves when it comes down to that being true to yourself, Because you can say you're being true to yourself, tell you're blue in the face, but in all reality you are doubting your doubts before you're willing to doubt your faith. Yeah, and that's just not to me. That's just not being true to yourself. Yeah, that's being true to an organization. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Next question what's something you wish people knew about your belief system and or religion? She said I wish people wouldn't put me in a box because of my beliefs. I empathize with everyone's experiences, but just because I'm still associated with the church doesn't mean I condone certain things. I think that it's really important, if you're in this situation, if you don't condone certain things. I think that you should be loud about those things, because if you are associated with the church, it is probably going to be inferred that you condone those things, because that is what the church condones. Um, so I think that I I agree with that.
Speaker 2:I I agree with that completely, but especially with certain things. I think you should be loud about those things. Um, and again, I hope that you do feel true to yourself and that you still feel aligned enough to still associate yourself with that church, if you are going to associate yourself with that church. But I do think it's important to look at, if you are associating yourself with the church, what the church associates itself with. You are going to be associated with, and that is just a fact, and so are you okay with being associated with those things?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean unless, like you say, you make a point to yes, let people know yeah, and that doesn't mean you have to go blasted on your freaking facebook wall or whatever but.
Speaker 1:If you're having a conversation with somebody, um, about us, about a certain topic, and you're just quiet about it, then you know, naturally, of course, they're probably going to believe that and the reason that that is for me, the reason that that is for me, the reason that that might be happening to you, is because, again, the church teaches things in a very specific way and it there's not a whole lot of leeway there where it's like, hey, here's this, you can choose to believe in it if you want. Like, that's not how it goes with the LDS faith. It's here's this information, this is what you must believe in. You need to believe this, this is right. Anything else is wrong. So then, from an outside perspective, of course, you're going to look at it and say, well, yeah, again, like Aaliyah said, if there's somebody associated with it, I know that the Mormon church is telling them this is what you believe in, nothing else. So why would I not think that your association is the same?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, when I do think that something that was really hard for me to deconstruct was and still working on it is realizing the cognitive dissonance that religion, especially high-demand religion, bears on people. Where it's hard to make those connections Of. I want to say like reality, but that's a little harsh Of saying like People aren't putting To me. People aren't putting you in a box. The Mormon church is putting you in a box. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or even people are putting the Mormon church in a box and you are inside of that box because you are part of that church.
Speaker 2:Right, but not only that, but like, what box has the church put itself in? So just things to think about. I think I'm really really grateful that you did share these things with us. So thank you. The last few questions is just kind of a little bit, I mean, I wouldn't say lighter, but something that, um, anyways, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let me just say what they are. Um, what's something that you hope to understand more from this podcast series? They just said I'm curious to see the direction. I think that a lot of people kind of have felt that way Don't exactly know where we're going with it. But hopefully, with this episode and the last last, you kind of understand where we're going with it. Um, and if there is another way that you would like to see it go, please share that with us. We would be interested to see how we could incorporate that into our vision. Uh, this is something that I'm really interested to see the more.
Speaker 1:Just real quick.
Speaker 1:If we only get responses from people who are outside of religion or no longer practicing religion, then kind of the theme of the episodes are going to are going to be a certain way yeah but if we can get some people in here to say, like people who are, you know, active in their faith, to say like, well, this is what I believe, this is why I believe it, then I feel like it could be more of a conversation, yeah, more of something that would seem to be more respectful. If you yeah, if you will right, because with it is how, with it, how it is now just people who are not really involved anymore.
Speaker 1:It's probably going to seem like we're just ragging on religion, so we need to have those responses from people who are also a part of it, not so that alia and I can sit here and argue you no and what you say, but just so that can give us more of a different point of view and understanding you and get the burn, the wheels turning in different areas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also, like we want all different types of faith, we want all different types of religion we do. We don't just want Mormons. Yeah please.
Speaker 1:We're surrounded by it 24-7.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also it is an influence into our beliefs, and so we would like to see an outer like a more inclusive, a more well-rounded type of answers as far as different faiths and religions go. So please, please, please, participate. We would love to hear from you and don't take that as like, if you are Mormon, don't respond, because we still do want your responses. Please do respond, but if you are from a different religion or have left another religion, please still share with us. We would love to know. This question is something that I am really excited to see. The different types of answers that we get come in is if you could have the answer to one question from a higher power, what would it be? Because I think that that would be. This is going to be a very like telling question of what really influences people to believe in religions and believe in higher powers. Why were you shaking your?
Speaker 1:head.
Speaker 2:I just feel like that's a tough question, like one thing I mean, it doesn't have to be one, it could be many. If you're filling this out, if you have multiple, but, like, if there is something that you could have the answer to, other than just like, are you real? What would it be? So this person said how can I keep my family?
Speaker 1:Which I'm not surprised by that, because, considering why they how can I keep my family like after this life or during I?
Speaker 2:don't know I assume after. Yeah, I'm assuming after just because their points of why they like the LDS religion is because of eternal families.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean for me personally. I agree with them. That's my biggest thing. Aaliyah and I don't even obviously have children of our own at this point. We only have the dogs. And yet still, I think three or four times a week at least, I have the thought go through my head of like man. One day these dogs aren't going to be with us anymore and that's going to hurt yeah it's going to hurt bad, and then, and then it's like you know, man, I wonder if I will ever be, able to see them again.
Speaker 1:I hope so yeah but I'm not going to let that hope drive me to you know, believe in something that otherwise doesn't make sense to me yeah but I would like to know for sure, if, just for you know, for the exact same reason at the beginning of this episode that I said I feel like it, for the exact same reason at the beginning of this episode that I said I feel like it draws people into religion is because we all want to have that hope and that assurance of just knowing that it's not the end yeah
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. And then one last one is what is a quote, musical, lyric, scripture, poem, etc. That you've heard that has helped change your perspective? I just love this is kind of the philosophical part of me I love things that make you look at things a different way or see things a different way and help change your belief system about either. Like I mean, I'm talking down to like literally just what you tell yourself every day, you know. So they had responded with this, actually with more of a mantra, and you know, something that they just tell themselves often is I deserve good things, and I think that that is something that is important to remind yourself is there's no reason that you don't deserve good things?
Speaker 2:And then I also did add in a new question or spot for you to put things, that's just anything else you'd like to share with us. So any other experiences or thoughts while you're filling out this form, please feel free to add to the form. Like I said in the past episode, we aren't looking for a specific type of answer, a specific length of answer of like in depth, whatever you want to share and what you're comfortable with. Please share it if you've watched any of our other episodes or listen to our other episodes. Um, being vulnerable is something that is something that we're working on and we think is really important, and so it's a big part of this show. So we really hope that you can be vulnerable with us and we will be vulnerable to you in return.
Speaker 1:So and again, like I just have to reiterate this because we want this to be a safe space for everybody, not just people questioning religion, but also people who are part of it. Very much so, but also people who are part of it very much so.
Speaker 1:And I'm just thinking, like you know, for me personally, I'm very passionate when I speak about things that I believe in and when I post things on socials or something like that, if I'm just like shooting the shit, you know, from the hip on what I believe, then I'm not looking to phrase it in a manner that is.
Speaker 1:it's not that I'm trying to be disrespectful but, I'm not trying to dance around everybody's feelings and beliefs out there either. Yeah, because if I'm just straight up saying what I believe in without anyone else, you know, engaging in conversation with me, then I'm going to be speaking way differently than if I was to be sitting down with somebody or reading through what somebody believed In those senses.
Speaker 1:You know I'm going to speak very much differently on it. I'm not just going to sit there and call you out or crap on you or whatever the case might be. Yeah, I will do my best to be respectful. Yeah. So I just don't want anyone to be put off by thinking that oh, you know, Jason, he's a little bit intense, Like I'm fully aware of the fact that I'm a little bit intense yeah but I also know when to rein it in yeah yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Um, we'll just leave it at that, because we did, you know, ramble as we do and like just take things into like 17,000 directions, but we do still have some responses to go through. So we'll keep sharing them and we hope that we get more responses so that we can go through those and decide what we'd like to share. And even then, I'm sure we'll have some that we just kind of go through a little bit quicker instead of like divulging, I think, just because it's the beginning of the series, we kind of are like we want to get out our thoughts and points of views and stuff like that. So please, please, please, fill out the form. We will have it in descriptions. Also, it is in the link in our bio on instagram at talk it out underscore show. So please go check it out there, give us a follow and participate in the stuff that we put on our stories. We really appreciate it. Follow and participate in the stuff that we put on our stories. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:There's something I was going to say about that, but now I don't remember, so never mind. All, righty, was there anything you wanted to say? Alrighty, was there anything you wanted to say?
Speaker 1:I don't think so okay, beautiful.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to last week's episode and this week's episode, and we will catch you guys on the next one see y'all.
