Ep 138: Toni Everard - What Clients Need To Feel Before They Buy From You

If you’re doing all the right things in your business but clients still aren’t moving forward, there’s something deeper going on.

In this episode, Toni Everard explores what clients are actually responding to before they decide to work with you. It’s not just your strategy, your content or your offer. People are responding to how they feel in your presence.

This conversation brings a powerful shift in perspective. Clients aren’t just buying a solution. They’re entering your world, and that means they need to feel safe, supported and able to trust you.

Toni breaks down how structure plays a much bigger role than most people realise. Not just business structure like pricing and offers, but internal structure. Emotional stability, grounded leadership and the ability to hold yourself without becoming defensive.

You’ll hear how defensiveness can quietly push clients away, even when nothing is being said. When there’s something unresolved underneath the surface, people can feel it. That’s often what creates hesitation or a sense that something is off.

As those internal walls come down, connection becomes easier and clients naturally move closer.

If your business feels harder than it should, or you’re finding it difficult to convert clients despite doing the work, this episode will change how you think about safety, structure and what it really takes to grow.

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Transcript

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You are listening to the Coaching Circle with Tony Everard, business and Mindset coach and your strategic thinking partner. This podcast is for those who want to step out of the hustle and glow in the flow. We'll talk about all things mindset, energy, and structure so you can evolve from the inside out and build a business that supports the life you want to live. Let's dive in. Welcome to this week's episode of the Coaching Circle, and today I want to talk about structure, but probably not in the way that most people think about structure. And so I'm gonna go deep on this because I think it's really important, and it's definitely a big part of the work that I do with people. So, yes, structure matters in business. You've probably heard this before, and it applies no matter what level of business you're at, whether you're starting out in business, whether you've been around for a while, whether you're making seven figures, eight figures, nine figures. It all adds into how much structure you need, and it's gonna have a big impact on your business because structure really affects your pricing, your offers, uh, your boundaries, your client pathways, your systems, your time, your energy, your capacity. All of it, right, is really, uh, affected by the structures that you have in place. And the better your structures are, the better your business will perform and the more ease you will have in your business. But there's an even deeper layer than that that I wanna go into, and that is safety. Right? I wanna talk about safety'cause structure creates safety, and the more safety that you create internally and externally, the safer people will feel being in your world. And I... This really relates to masculine and feminine energy, right? So the masculine is the structure. So good, healthy, masculine structure creates safety for the feminine, right, for the emotions, for the connection, for the trust. This is the real key thing. And, uh, I was having a conversation with a client just last week actually who was saying to me like,"You know, Toni, how, how do you bring clients into your world?" And of course, you know, there's a real clear pathway that I have, um, that's combination of social media and the relationships that I build and, you know, I have a very simple pathway, right? There's nothing super complicated in my business. It's very simple, and I believe that that's the way it should be. But one of the, the, the first thing that popped to mind when she asked me this is the thing that I lead with the most, and that is that I genuinely care about people. I, I genuinely care about people. I'm interested in my clients. I'm interested in people who, before they're even my clients, uh, I'm interested in their lives, their businesses, who they help, what are the problems that they solve, how do they go about solving those things, um, why they care about the work that they do, what they want their life to feel like. Like, I'm literally interested in people and how they, uh, are doing things because I love learning, and I think I learn a lot by connecting with other people and having really authentic relat- uh, conversations in those relationships. And, and that is different from the people who are having conversations just to scan for a problem that they can sell a solution to, right? This is a big difference because in any kind of sales training you'll do, they'll say, you know,"Ask questions," and, you know,"Discover a need," and then link the need, uh, to the, you know, program or the solution that you can sell them. And yes, that is part of sales, but if you're not genuinely interested in people, they're going to feel it, right? I... Like, I'm genuinely interested in people, and so that means that I'm not willing to sell to just anybody. I really wanna make sure that if I'm talking to someone, I'm interested in them first. I'm seeing if I have a connection with them first. I'm seeing if there's, you know, common ground that we have because, uh, I like to meet people and talk to people. And then if there is something that I can help them with, I will naturally just start helping them without selling to them, but I'll just naturally start helping them. And then w- that is more where, um, people... I create a pull energy where people are, are drawn to me more than that I'm pushing for them to buy from me, right? It's a very, very different energy. Uh, and I'm also just not available for everybody. Okay? I'm not available for everybody. I won't go to a networking event or a luncheon or anything and just sit and go,"Oh, who haven't I talked to yet in the room?" Right? Like, I'm not that sort of strategic, as in, oh, it's just numbers. They're just people. People are... I'm not sitting there going,"Oh, people have got dollar signs over their heads," right? It's yucky. I don't like it. I don't like it when people do it to me. I don't do it to other people. But I am genuinely interested in people, and people that I feel like, yes, I have a connection with. Uh, there's no... I don't have any clients that I, like, don't like, right? Like, all of my clients are amazing, and it comes from the, the perspective that I've got to know them before I've- Even decided that yes, I would be interested in having them as a client. And, uh, and so there's a mutual sort of connection, right? And that's really important. And so that's the first thing, right? You wanna have that genuine interest in people. Don't just be scanning for who's got a problem that you can sell to, right? It's yucky. Nobody likes that. So be interested in people. There's human beings that are behind every business or, you know, whoever you're serving. There's... It's a human being. And, uh, and people can feel that, right? You can feel that. This is the other thing, right? I'm not just... This isn't just something that I do because, oh, how it's gonna feel for other people. It's number one, how does it feel for me? I want it to feel good for me to have conversations and actually be interested in people. And so that's what creates a level of emotional safety, and when someone feels emotionally safe around you, they naturally move closer. Okay? When someone feels emotionally safe around you, they naturally move closer. And so this is something that I think people massively underestimate in business and, you know, when people are sort of saying things like,"Oh, you know, what should I be posting, and what strategy should I use, and how do I get more leads, and da, da, da, da, da," underneath all of that, people are responding to your nervous system. Okay? They, they are all sensing whether you feel safe, whether you trust yourself, whether you're congruent. So when I say congruent, it means, like, what you say and what you think and what you feel are all aligned, in alignment, so you're not thinking one thing and saying something else,'cause people can feel that. Uh, I know I can. I've... I pick up a lot of stuff from people. Um, and, y- you know, it's, it's wild. But anyway, people are sensing, even if they're not consciously aware of it, they are sensing. And you might just get a sense of, hmm, there's something about that person, whatever. Uh, but they're sensing it. Is there emotional stability? Are you emotional, emotionally stable? Um, they're d- they're sensing your boundaries. Are your boundaries... Like, are you disrespecting their boundaries? Like, are you getting too much in their space? This is one that I notice a lot as well. Sometimes there's people that I, um, meet through networking who do not respect my boundaries, like personal boundaries, um, like even proximity. I don't like people who I don't really know getting right up in my grill, right? If it's like, if I feel comfortable with you being up- close to me, you'll know in body language. But so many people can't read body language, and they get w- right up close to you, and it's just like I- I'm not even welcoming you here. You're just, like, trying to implant yourself in my space. It's like, back off, buddy. Um, and I don't just mean back off, buddy, as in a male. Women do this, and I'm thinking about women at the moment. Um, and so, you know, you also wanna... People are also sensing whether, um, conflict feels survivable with you, right? Like, you, you can automatically sense by people's micro, you know, facial movements and body language whether, like, how they respond in conversations. And you can pick up micro things where people kind of prickle or, like, you know, get a bit tense through just normal conversation. It will unconsciously send a signal to people that, oh, if there was real conflict here, this person wouldn't handle it very well. Y- in business, you're gonna know that there's chances you're gonna have conflict, and conflict just means that you've got different opinions about something, right? Or there's different expectations, or someone's crossed a boundary or something like that. And if someone feels like you couldn't survive that well, like the relationship couldn't survive that well, like that there would be some kind of childish emotional response, then th- they won't feel that they trust you. Um, and when I say childish emotional response, I say that because the, uh, emotional stuff that people don't have regulated is stuff from childhood, so it's literally childish emotional responses, right? It's unresolved stuff from childhood that people have that gets triggered in adult conversations. Um, people also s- sensing whether they'll feel supported in your world, okay? Whether they can trust you that if they step into your world that, you know, you're gonna pro- provide a space where you do what you say you're gonna do, and you don't just leave them high and dry or, or manipulate them or, or anything else, right? That you're congruent. Like, this is the key thing. It's inner alignment. It's congruency. It's emotional stability. It's how you're presenting is how you actually are. Really, really important. And that's the key thing that I know with my clients is... Or, or, or with anyone. Where people meet me, if you meet me at the shops, if you meet me in a networking im- uh, event, if you meet me in my office, if you meet me when I was on holidays, if you meet me when I was out for dinner, I'm gonna be the same person. I'm gonna be the same person. There's not gonna be any surprises, and that creates emotional stability. Okay? So this is the thing that you've gotta realize, is that when clients are, are paying you and they're becoming clients, they're not just buying information or they're not just buying a service, they're entering a relationship and an environment, right? They're gonna be connected to you. That's gonna be a part of, like, they're merging their worlds with yours in some kind of capacity. And so you wanna be making sure that that feels safe for them. And so this is where the masculine energy becomes really important, and we all have masculine and feminine energy within us. And healthy masculine energy creates emotional safety through structure. Okay? It creates steadiness. It creates grounded leadership. It creates emotional containment. So whenever you see someone losing their shit, right? If you see someone going off and having a big y- yelling match or, you know, or even just collapsing into tears or whatever else, that's a lack of healthy masculine energy, because masculine structure creates emotional containment. It means that, yes, I can feel my emotions, but I don't get taken over by my emotions because I've got structure that makes me feel safe. Okay, when someone gets taken over by their emotions, it's because they don't feel safe, and that's a lack of healthy masculine structure. And, and this is really important because I think we've come from a time where people think, oh yeah, men are like, you know, masculine energy is like the angry energy or it's the, you know, powerful, you know, like overbearing energy. No, that's not healthy masculine energy. That's wounded masculine energy. Healthy masculine energy is steady, it's grounded, it cr- pr- it creates a container that feels safe for your emotions. It creates direction, stability, boundaries, consistency. And then when you have that in place, that energy makes people feel they can relax, and if they can feel relaxed and they feel safe, then that is magnetic to them. People wanna move towards things that feel like that they can be themselves in, that they can relax around, that it's okay for them to be who they are in that space. It doesn't mean that you, um, let people treat you however you want. No, not at all. There's very s- clear structure around people, how people will, uh, behave in your environment. Absolutely But that means that ultimately that structure of how people are gonna behave in your environment is also going to up level their experience and get them to the results that they want faster. Okay, and, and so this is super important because people don't want to, even if it's an unconscious l- feeling that they're not... They can't articulate, they don't really know, but they don't wanna feel like they're walking into chaos. Okay? Chaos is a lack of healthy masculine structure. Uh, and so that's why we wanna have structure. And so this is also what we need to create inside of ourselves, okay? Because one of the biggest things that I work with, uh, on people with is around defensiveness. Now, I can sense really quickly when someone has got an element of defensiveness. It's like there's an invisible wall, but it's like there's like a mask, and most people who have this are aware that they have it, and they're hoping that nobody else can see, right? Because the defensiveness is really just a protection mechanism that's there to try to protect some emotional part of you that doesn't feel safe, that feels a bit vulnerable, that feels a bit, you know, um, fragile, and that you don't want poked, that you don't want touched, that you don't want activated. And so there's this kind of mask that... or wall that's there to, to protect it. So it's not bad, it's not evil or anything else like that. It just comes from having unresolved emotional stuff. I used to have this way more. I mean, do I have it now? I don't know. Maybe an element of it, but nothing compared to what I used to. Um, I'm, I'm pretty much an open book. Like, people, you know, wherever I go, people... This is how I am. I j- I show up how I am, and there's not much that will really phase me. Like, um, I've got boundaries, absolutely. If someone crosses my boundaries, I don't have any problem expressing those boundaries. Um, but I don't feel a lot of fear around what will happen, okay? That, that I'm not really fearful about what people will ask me or how they'll necessarily think of me or judge me or anything like that. I used to hugely, right? And it's probably why I can recognize in, uh, in other people. So often people have this, and especially if you're having trouble attracting clients. If you're having trouble attracting clients, ads won't fix it. I did a rant about that the other week. You can go back and listen to that one. Um, but if you're having trouble attracting people, it's because of this level of defensiveness. And- You, you likely know what I'm talking about right now. So you've either felt it in yourself or you've sensed it in other people. Most people can, even if they can't consciously explain it. But when someone feels defensive, people instinctively keep a bit of distance. It's like, you know, it creates a little bit of tension. It creates that,"Mm, I can't talk freely with you because there's a chance something's gonna get activated, and I don't know what that is because it's not, uh... it's, it's not going to be a reaction to anything logical about what I've said or done. It's just gonna be a tr- a, a wound that's getting triggered, and it feels like I've gotta kind of tiptoe around." And so, uh, that's what will keep people at a distance from you. If they feel like they need to walk carefully around you, that disagreement might become conflict, that feedback won't feel safe, that, um, emotions are sitting a bit close to the surface, that something unresolved is being protected, that you may, like, close down or shut down or, you know, in some way, you know, fire off the wall a bit harder, then that is going to be an underlying current that people can feel, and it will stop them from coming into your world. So like I said, it's not a bad thing. It doesn't mean you're a bad person. It's just some unresolved stuff. So that defensiveness, that mask, that wall is usually protecting some kind of old pain or shame or, you know, hurt or insecurity that has yet to be resolved. And you can resolve that stuff. You can absolutely resolve that stuff, and, and a lot easier than what people think, especially using the turning point, which is the process that I created. And of course, I wrote a book about it. It gets incredible results. This is what I help people with all the time. But until that's resolved, people have these walls, right? They have these walls, the masks, the personas, the overcompensation, the, the spiritual sup- superiority. That's a good one. I love that one, when people have got, you know, I'm holier than thou kind of stuff going on. Um, or they have constant proving, over-explaining, people-pleasing, perfectionism. And, and all of this is just to protect that unresolved space underneath, okay? When you can create that safety, inner safety, then the mask can come off, then the walls can come down. That's when you can actually start connecting, right? So the wall that protects that wound also blocks connection. Right, this is really important to remember. The wall that protects that wound also blocks connection. So this is also the people that say,"You know, I know a lot of people, but I don't feel like I've got a lot of really close friends." Right? That,"I, I can feel lonely in a crowded room." It's the same stuff because if you're kind of keeping yourself safe, you're not connecting with people. Um, whereas when you have this inner safety, it's like,"Yeah, of course I'm safe, and of course I can be safe around people." Right? So and once you have that inner safety, that changes everything. Okay? But like I said, people, your ideal clients might not be able to articulate this. They, depending on their level of sensitivity to people and what's going on with people, they might just say things like,"Oh, something feels a bit off," or,"I don't really know why, but I'm a bit hesitant," or they just can't quite find that click that says,"Yes, this is the person that I'm gonna work with." Okay? Because humans are constantly reading congruence. Right? They're constantly scanning, scanning for that emotional stability. So if someone feels fully a- available emotionally, like that you can connect with this actual person, then that feels a lot different than when we feel someone is guarding themselves. Okay, so this is one of the most powerful shifts that you need to do in your business, uh, if you feel like you're, you're having trouble attracting clients. And so... A- and I see this time and time and time again. It's happened to me, it happens to my clients. Like, a- and I can literally see in a session when someone starts telling me what's been going on, I can see the defensiveness. Like, I can see it. It's like obviously there's not, like, a visual picture, but it's like I, I can sense the defensiveness. And then when we shift it, it's like after that it gets resolved, and this happens really quickly. After it's resolved, I'm like,"Oh, now I feel like I can see you properly. I feel like I can connect with you properly." And that's when I see clients, they... my clients start having clients flow in. Okay? This is one of my clients, she's gone from, like, struggling to get clients to fully booked every week. Um, another client I did a session with just recently, within a few days of our session, she'd had, like, two signups. It was a, a re-signup and a new signup, and then this bunch of other opportunities. Like, this is the stuff. Strategy cannot... Explain this. Do you still need to have strategy? Yeah, of course you can,'cause you can't just do this work and sit on your couch and go, you know,"Where's all my clients?" You still have to actively have pathways and structure in your business where people can find you and come in, and that, you know, your- you've got that invitation and everything else that goes with marketing and sales, and all those kinds of things, and structure. But this is what unblocks the flow. This is where then people start coming in, because they can finally feel you as a real person. There's warmth, there's certainty, there's self-trust, there's groundedness, there's emotional safety, and people can relax into that energy. People are so drawn to that energy because not everybody has it, right? So they're looking for people that can have that. This is why it's so important, it's such an important part of your business, is to have this,'cause good people are looking for other good people. And when they find it, it doesn't matter what you look like, how you sound, you know, anything else, it's like,"Can you help me, and do I feel safe being in your space while you help me?" And if you've got emotional stability and groundedness and all those kinds of things, it's going up, up, up the trust factor that people have that you can help them as well. It's mind-blowing. Absolutely. Okay, now importantly, having this emotional availability, as I said, does not mean that you have to become emotionally exposed with everyone. That's, that's not safety, right? Safety means that you can connect with people, and that you no longer need constant protection of something kind of, um, between you and other people, okay? It's like you have your own boundaries, and you, you can express them in a really healthy way, right? Without getting defensive. And that changes your sales, it changes your visibility, it changes your leadership, uh, your content. Content, people, when you have this inner safety, your content will start to sound like stuff people actually wanna read, okay? If you don't feel this inner safety, you'll be... your content will be full of this surf- surface level crap that you get out of AI, and wondering why people aren't engaging with it, right?"Oh, here's five things that you can do." No, how about five things that you actually did, right? Let people in. Let them see what you actually have done. You can own your own stuff. Uh, it changes your relationships. It changes your communication. It, it changes how open you are for receiving. Right? Money, intimacy, business growth, right? Those real deep connections that you have with people, people that keep working with you, right? Year on year. Because your business will only grow to the level that it feels safe- For people to connect with you. Okay, so yes, business structure matters, not just externally- Okay, I found this on the web for business structure then. Wow, my iPad just went off then. Um, so business structure matters, but not just externally. Internal structure matters as well, right? Emotional structure, nervous system safety, self-trust, the ability to stay grounded during discomfort, the ability to repair conflict, the ability to hear feedback without collapsing or attacking, and the ability to stay open without losing yourself. That's the kind of structure that creates safety, and safe people become safe places for other pe- for other people to land, right? Safe people become safe places for other people to land. They... That's how we wanna connect, and that's when business starts becoming a magnet to your ideal clients. Now, I have... People have been asking me about my five-day challenge. There, I do have a couple of spots open currently. Now, if you're someone who's like,"Yes, I need to, uh, get my structure organized both internally and externally in my business." You've got some big goals, and you are committed, and you're ready to shift whatever it is you need to shift next so that you can bring your work to the world, right? You might be a coach, service provider, um, but you know it's time, right? And what I'm talking about is resonating with you, then email me. You'll find it in the show notes, tony@tonyoverard.com. Find me on Instagram, Facebook. Uh, message me, because this is the stuff that's going to change your world. That's it from me today. Over and out. Have a great week. If you love this episode, you can help me get the message out to more people. Simply leave a review and share this episode with someone who'd love to hear it. Thanks for tuning into the Coaching Circle. I'll catch you in the next episode.