Bandon Dunes Breakdown | Full Program Golf Podcast #33

Episode 33 of the Full Program Golf Podcast is a big one.

Josh takes us back to his 2019 trip to what might just be the greatest golf destination on the planet - Bandon Dunes - and we dive all the way in. With five world-class 18-hole courses and two unforgettable par-3 layouts, this place is bucket-list territory for any serious golfer. Three of the main courses sit comfortably inside the world’s top 100, and we break them all down one by one. Expect honest course rankings, logo rankings (yes, it matters), and a real look at what it’s like to take on a full Bandon trip - including the things no one tells you, plus plenty of tips and tricks if you’re thinking of going.

Before we head to the Oregon coast, we also cover a truly special moment in New Orleans, as the Fitzpatrick brothers secured a historic win. With our strong ties back to Sheffield, this one hit a little differently.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome back to the full program golf podcast. For me, Josh Conlan, and as ever, Stevie McAvoy joining me. Today is the long-awaited Bandon Dunes conversation. Played it pre-COVID, but we're gonna chop it up today. We're gonna get into it. The sun is out, got a bit of a red tan going on. It's time to talk summer golf. Let's get into it. Stevie, how are we doing? I'm good, mate. How are you? I'm I'm really well, really well. I know we had a brief just chop-up of what's been happening and uh before we jumped on the pod. And it feels like golfing seasons really here. I mentioned it on the intro. You know, you've got that early season burn off the patio that you've just got to get in, you've got to really enjoy it. But the sun's got to be out to have it, and we're here. It was a it was a beautiful weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

There's there's no other way to put it. And to be honest, I can extend it back. It was a beautiful week. I um I had the pleasure of going Woodall Spa on Wednesday. And let me tell you, sneaking a little midweeker with a pal in the sun at a really good golf course you'd not played before, sticking a lot of boxes.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Um, and then yeah, like you said, I know you had a bit of a bonanza this weekend where I managed to sneak around in uh Saturday afternoon as well, and god, it was glorious, wasn't it? It's just the best. Golf in the sun, it's just the best. You know, we had um on the Saturday in particular, we played in the morning, played a few more holes in the afternoon, but then what we did afterwards, you know, you're looking at your your putting comps of have reappeared, your one club challenges have reappeared, and for those that don't know, we have we have quite a few loops that we can play at Roamid Surrey. So you it's one club, exactly as you say, loser buys the the round, anyone that wants to be in, you pick your club, you take it out. Like I went with the eight iron, if you go with the nine, if you go with a seven, depending on on your um on the way you want to play it. Um and it's just nice to see it back because that is purely a summer thing that we have. It's just great to be here. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I always think the one club's quite interesting because I I remember uh vividly last summer going out with I think it was an eight iron and playing a six-hole loop, and it's like nine on the inner for us, quite a short path four.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

I think I just went eight iron, eight iron to the middle of the green, and it almost like it opens up this world of possibilities. You're like, am I am I overcomplicating things with these 14 bats uh that I've got on the back of my on my shoulders? So uh interesting concept, great game. It lands us in trouble sometimes, but hey, we just love it, don't we? We do love it, and you know, we get a bit silly, don't we? We had a couple of drinks, it's land using a bit of trouble, but we don't care. We carry on anyway. Uh, and it's interesting you say that because um our loop, we just had a quick three-hole loop because we'd played plenty of holes. We did the first, the first on our Pan Barton course, which we we refer to as the inner course. We then, which is about a it's a drivable par four, really, about 330-ish, but but hard and like nothing in the way. Then you've got um we we moved on to 11 of the same golf course, which is a bit short, about 260 par four, round the trees. And then we moved over to the big course, the J.H. Taylor course, the outer, and we played the 11th there, which is a about 160-yard par three, but with the bunker. And the one club, the bunkers, that's what gets you. And um interestingly, I played one and eleven with an eight iron in one under, having had many drinks beforehand. And in the Stapleford yesterday afternoon, I played one and eleven in level pot with 14 clubs and going for both greens. So uh, you know, it shows that sometimes laying it back does work.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, exactly. But no, it was a beautiful weekend. I have to say, I actually um I actually I actually went for the sun cream on Saturday afternoon. I uh Wednesday, I didn't I didn't get down to the short sleeve.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

I could have, like 100% I could have, but Crouch Crouch didn't take his off. And do you know what? I'm gonna do what Crouch does because he's much better at golf than me. And I thought that's that's how we're gonna do it. And well, let me say, like, I will just say as well, I hope he's listening to this. It's it is actually just a pleasure to play with him, and we all know it's good, whatever. But what it does, especially in a tubal, for me personally, it gets me in such a good rhythm. Gets me in such a good rhythm because you're playing with someone who's not lashing at it, you're not having to look for his golf ball, and like it I just I can't even describe it. I I feel like if I played with him all of the time, I would just be better a couple of shots.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Um, and so it was good fun. But then down to the short sleeve Saturday afternoon, and I did I I went for the the the Pizboy. I just I went for a bit of is that even how you pronounce it?

SPEAKER_03 4:39

I I'm not I'm not a big sun cream brand knower, but yeah, other brands are available as well. Other brands are and uh I just put a little layer on because because you know you get you get caught sometimes in that early April sun, and you're like, ah, I am a milk bag because it's been the winter, and I just need to be a little bit careful, you know. Yeah, absolutely. And I want my face to um resemble an old leather bag, so I didn't go for the the sun cream and I I just enjoyed it, just embraced the um the tightness in the skin on Sunday morning. I enjoy, I really did enjoy that. Just want to dive into into the the Hodgkin course. Yeah. Thoughts, feelings? Played it many years ago, but we'd be keen to get your feels. So uh I'll I'll set the scene. Hardest course in England, England Golf um, you know, national centre. Um, and I believe it was a world top 100 course, and it's now fallen out. I think that's right. Now, what I'd been told is it's very hard, very tight, and overrated is what I'd been told previously.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Like, you know, people didn't think it deserved to be originally in the world top 100. And so I went there, kind of almost slightly on the back foot with it.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

And do you know what I thought it was really, really nice, like a really, really solid, quite flat. But what they've done with it is, I think, brilliant, like super, super high quality Heathland golf course, great bunkering. I mean, beautiful bunkering across the whole course. Um, it was it was long, like we played it off one T forward, and it was just a nip under 7,000. Um, but it was it was hot hard and fast, and so like it didn't feel that long. And the relative it is, is because it's a 1-5-2, I think, the slope rating on the on the T's that we played, I just got a million shots around it. And so I felt with the shots given, it actually was very playable and um, yeah, got on a good day and and came away from it really, really impressed, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

And and I think you've you've touched on a really key point there.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

The rating sets up your expectation, and so you know, I actually just had a little look whilst you were whilst you were talking there. You're right, it is not in the world's top 100 anymore, it's now 33 UK Island, 12th in England. Right that uh obviously brings down your expectation and it probably fits that expectation, so you enjoy it much more. Whereas if it's saying it's a top 100 in the world, it isn't. It isn't a top 100 in the world, it's a very nice golf course, it's a good golf course, it's a very good test of golf. I think it's fair where it is now, but I don't think well, it's not a top 100 in the world, so it's I'm glad that that's moved. But it's it's interesting because if it's top 100, you'd have gone disappointed, similar to how I felt at Mjorfield, similar to how I feel at other places.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Yeah, yeah, I I think I it it's right on the cut. So I think 30, whatever you said it was in G B and I, early 30s, I I'm pretty sure it's something like the 30th best golf course in G B I gets in the world, top 100. So we're talking it is just outside.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Um yeah, I I think it it probably does just lack a tiny bit of wow factor to get in in the top 100.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Um, but I said when you take away that expectation of wow factor, then the route of it is god, you'd be a good player playing around it, and it's a really proper, serious golf course where it really doesn't have a weakness, it just it just doesn't necessarily have the land to be uh uh you know uh oh my god, that was unbelievable, like an Ailster or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Yeah, and again, just you're absolutely bang on. You know, you look at 10th in England's deal, Rawls St. Court, and that's 90th in the world. You get to 11, which is West Sussex, and that suddenly goes to 31 UK Island. So you really are, and then obviously 12 is is um the Hodgkin course. So you really are looking, it's on that course, but it's only moved down a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

But um I will just I will just say the only thing with it, so I come up from just east of London to get there, uh a nip under three hours, which I must say is is on the upper limit of what I'm willing to do in a day to play a golf course, but you know, I'll I I was I was up for it.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Um I left at 6.30 in the morning, so I've got about 45 minutes of big highway, if you will, and then I just went back roads for almost two and two of 2.15.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

And so, like the drive from where I am is brutal. Like you just it we we need to get some infrastructure out that way.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Yeah, it it does feel like you go back in time a little bit, doesn't it? Out out in uh in Lincoln. East of the A1, like this is nothing there thinking in the surrounding area. Um good land for golf, very flat, had lots of opportunities, but not that many courses actually. You'd expect more out there, you know. Obviously, you've got Woodall Spar, and there's two courses there, and actually the Bracken's decent as well, you know. It's a decent test. It's it's much more of a um US style in its its sort of setup. Uh I think it's got that USGA Greens or whatever. Um that that kind of makes it feel like that. Um, but a good course in its own right, and you can get some good deals and like a night over play both courses, which you know, really is pretty nice. There's not a lot of£105. We played, um, which is the midweek April, as long as you're an EG member.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

£105 play Woodle Swap. Oh, I mean, it's one of the better deals that I've come across.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

You know, we've been deal hunting this year a little bit, and and let me tell you, that is I think that's probably top of the tree now. It's it's over in a couple of days. They go to their summer eight in May. But yeah, it was really good. Um, and I said, was it was a great joy to play with Crouch. Talking about Crouch, obviously a Sheffield boy, it was a big night last night for the Sheffield lads, wasn't it? Very big night, yeah. Uh what a great win. What a win for the Fitzpatricks. Um, great to see. There was a lot of group chats popping off on my phone, I have to say, which was brilliant. They'd done all the work, hadn't they? You know, the the Forsom's 7-8 under 700, I think it was on the on Friday. And then the 15 under four-ball Saturday, really 57 stands out, doesn't it? Yeah, it got them what they needed to do. And I yeah, they were cruising, weren't they? They were at 33 under after 11, and then they just had that absolute horror show. Oh, I think I think it was 12, 12 or 13, I think it was 12. Um, yeah, it was 12 horror show with the trick with the t-shot, then not hitting the gap, then you know Colmat's in double bogey. Suddenly, everyone else is coming at them. You know, Ry Tan and his partner make three eagles on the day, which is obscene. Yeah, uh crazy. Yeah, then bogey 14, that part three. But what can I let's just talk about. I mean, I want to talk about the bunker shot that Matt Fitzpatrick has hit on 18 there. Like, it is an obscenely good golf shot. Like, are you gonna see a better golf shot than that to win a tournament? It reminded me, I know it didn't go in, but it reminded me of the speef at the travellers when he holed it to win, because it was that close, it was almost like that.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

But you you gotta say though, like it it kind of is on merit in the sense that Speath hold that to win it, and he needed to hold that to win it in that moment, and Fitzpatrick probably needed to stiff it to win, or or certainly, you know, to close the door as as emphatically as he did.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

So they almost have as much merit, I'd say. Yeah, I would agree. And the only thing that I was I actually read um Sky Sports, where I get it, it's where I consume my sport, other brands available. Um I read an article actually this morning, and they made out as though it was all Matt. I was a little bit disappointed because I actually felt on that back nine, and Matt even said it in the interview. He was the one who was letting the team down. He was hitting the really you know, the t-shot when they made the double. Yeah, Alex is chipping out, you know, he's right up against the tree. The t-shot on the 14th, the part three, Matt's putt short side in a bunker down wind, like good luck. It it was time for him to step up, and he did, and he hit unbelievable, a great t-shirt down the last, and an unbelievable um bunker shot after a bit of an iffy wood from Alex. But I thought by and large, you know, Alex the tick the shot into 17 was a great shot, and Matt hit an unmatched put, like short and right. That's that's not like him. Um, so I just wanted to call it out on the pod that it wasn't the Matt show, it really was a team effort, and great that Alex has now got his card for two years. Matt's topped the Fenix Cup, outrageous. I mean, there's so much good stuff in there, and and and really, I have to say, when like you said, Alex hit great shot down 17, and then you know, going down 18. If if you strip back what was going on, you're really thinking that you know they should be making four there. Matt hits unbelievable drive. Alex obviously kind of cruds his seven wood into that front trap. And as they're walking down, I'm just thinking to myself, it it what's gonna happen here is Alex is gonna have seven foot for a PGA tour card.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

And yeah, you could just tell Alex was he he, you know, he was walking quickly, he was moving, and and he's got such a I think, such like a younger, older brother kind of thing going where like you know, he almost like ran over to Matt and was like, Oh, I just didn't do it great, it's all right, kind of thing on on 18. And I was just like, oh my god, like I actually I was nervous because you know I really wanted to win, and I was just like, oh my god, Matt's gonna leave him seven foot. We're just gonna have to like wince at Alex trying to grind over this putt to secure the card, and you could just sense it, it was just so funny. I thought the absolute Alex just like riling up the crowd like this when Matt sticks it to a foot. You could just imagine the kind of like exhale, and I was thinking, I mean, I'd probably still be like nervous over the foot because you're like, it's just such a big putt for his career, you know. You think, like you say, through from that young lad that cadried for him at the US Open to the to the kid who was there in front of the camera on the side when he won the US Open, still looking, you know, very much like younger brother.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

But we always knew that he was a good player, like you know, he obviously is growing up playing with you boys, and to see him win earlier on the DP World Tour around a really hard track. And now, go over. I mean, what what a good story tournament the Zurich's been as well, the last couple of years. Obviously, McElroy Lowry winning it was um got quite a lot of headlines.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

And for the Fitzpatrick's first brothers to do it, they clearly have a great relationship, and to go and win your brother a PGA tour card. I mean, for your third win of the season as well, if you I mean it's just I love it, absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Yeah, quite a lot to unpack, and I've got lots to say about it. I'm so excited, Fire. Yeah, I loved got a call out for that. The reaction when that bunker shop went to where it was from Alex was like an all-time, you know, you just so many of them keep it calm and they're like and then they let out the emotions after they've holded them. But yeah, as you say, he was whipping the fans up, he was jumping around, it was like I was almost like, you've still got to hold it. Please calm down, please. Uh, but it was brilliant to watch, it was so good, and um that was great. I think what it's done for the the Zurich Classic, they've they've just monopolized that better ball comp market now. When it's when it set off, no one really played, it was almost seen as a bit of a backing tournament. Now you've got the big names want to enter it with a partner, have some fun, it gets great viewership. It's actually so refreshing to watch a slightly different form of golf. Watching these guys play four ball and foursoms is is really fun. Um so that was brilliant. Really enjoyed that. Coming on to the accolades, you know, Alex has now got a two-year exemption on PGA tour. He's in the 27 players, he's in the 26th PGA Championship. Like, this is now a springboard. In in the last month, he's now got his first win on the DP, first win on the PGA tour, which is amazing. Matt becomes the first Englishman to win three times on the PGA tour. I heard that couldn't be a good one. Leads the FedEx Cup. It's mental, isn't it? That absolutely crazy. Um, and then you know, you hear, and then this kind of comes back to then some places we've played. You hear Alex being like, Well, yeah, I can't celebrate too much tonight because I've got a flight to Turkey because he's going to play at the national next week. So just it's just great, it's just great. I'm getting excited even talking about it. I I wonder if um as a I assume Matt would have a house all set up in Florida or wherever he based himself, the US. I wonder if now Alex is occupying that spare room for the rest of the year, and his uh Matt's missus, I think, is pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

And so could you could you imagine like you're about to have a baby and then all of a sudden, like uh what would it be? Brother-in-law, younger brother-in-law, just suddenly is just like taking over half the house because he's just gone to the PGA tour.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Yeah, the 1.3 million yesterday might help though. Yeah, that is true. That is true. Yeah, I the the three English win thing. I I I actually couldn't believe that. Justin Rhodes hasn't won three times on the PGA tour in a year before. Alright, I can see Fouder a bit older, but it is surprising, isn't it? You know, you didn't but but there's not that many, you know. The we could talk Rose, but that's one player. He's definitely done it twice for sure. But like that's one player, and we've not actually had that many top of the well, we've had lots of top of the rankings, but prolific winners. You know, Donald when he got to world number one wasn't a prolific winner. Westwood wasn't a prolific winner on the PGA tour. That Donald when he when he I I remember Donald won some, he would have changed names now, but he won some tournament in a big playoff. I think there was a load of people in it, to go to number one. And I I don't know why. I I I had it in my head, Donald actually did win quite a few times on the PGA tour. He just obviously never won anything that big, but yeah, I mean obviously I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Like, yeah, just yeah, but that actually flawed me when I heard it.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yeah, I was very surprised. Um, but good to just take that off. Done now. Let's get four. Um talk talking about English boys.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Uh good to see DB made a cut, made the cut with John Parry, finished T13. I think that's um good, good to see him in cash. Yes, bit of cash, FedEx put cut points. Um, so that was good to see as well. Yeah, uh you you you'll probably know.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Did Lowry and um Kepka miss the cut in the end? They did, yeah. There were nine undercut was ten. Biggest names, really. Well, I lowest ranks Fitzpatrick, obviously one of three going into the field, but you'd say probably the highest profile partnership in a Lowry Kepka. Um an interesting partnership that I wouldn't have put together, um, but great for the tournament again.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

I I think we forget that Kepka spent all those years on the European tour.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

And so I think his relationships with Euro players is probably a bit stronger than your standard American. Yeah, I completely agree. You know, there's not many that have come and played the trade on the DP World Tour and learn learnt their ropes over here. So that's that's a really good point. Really good point that I actually have to do.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Here you go. I'm I'm I'm gonna throw a question to you.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

It's quite a loose question, but we'll we'll see if you get the answer. Of the Kepka era, who is the other high-profile American to be playing on the European tour? I appreciate it. That's so loose. That is quite loose. I mean, actually we claim it quite a lot. I'll give you a clue. He's on Live now. It was very specific. It was it was kind of Kepka and and they were like, oh, these Americans are going about it differently. And they were kind of written about in unison, and then Kepka went on to be a better player. He's on Live now, is he? I think he is.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

I hope he is.

SPEAKER_03 21:07

I'm absolutely flawed, no idea.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Peter Uline was the was the name I had. Um Yeah, it was him and him and Kepka that I remember reading an article and it was very much like I I I I could have asked that question much better, but um it was because they were both kind of big stature Americans, came out of college with with quite a good track record, and yeah, both went and decided to ply their trade over over this way, which was um not the normal route in. Um and yeah, obviously Kepka's gone on for much bigger and better things.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Um anything else from the world's mind's dad's CEO of Tight List as well. I think he's right. Am I right in Twitter? Is he really? Yeah, he's very high up on tight list, I'm sure he is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. Anything else from from the world of golf before we we crescendo into the main event? I would say one more interesting um little wrinkle was Over in China on the DP World Tour. Wiesberger breaking his five-year hiatus from the winner's circle. Would I say it's good to see him back? Don't know. Don't know. He puts with a long putter, don't like it. Straight away, don't like it. Everyone anchors that does that, not hearing otherwise. But what was interesting, I caught the last hole actually on yesterday morning. Adrian Otagi had had a three-shad going into the back nine. He was one back playing 18, so he'd clearly just decided to stick it in reverse. And I turned it on and he was stood in the trees. And anyway, he's he's got like a four-shot lead from third. So he's going to finish second, but he's one behind Visberger. He's in the trees, he chips out, he chips out pretty well, but nearly puts it in the water, like really close. And then just hits this third shot. And you can tell that he's telling everyone in this grandstands to like keep your eyes out. He's just planning on hitting the grandstand and hoping the ricochet brings it back, which obviously we can't get used to. So I was thinking, oh, he's gonna get lucky here. He doesn't. It hits the grandstand, but it hits the metal of the grandstand, pings that far back, goes back into the water. Has to he's in the water. He's thinking about taking a drop anyway, makes seven, just like Viesberger, just procession to the win. But quite interesting. I thought it was quite uh I think it's a shame that they can do that and they can use the grandstand. You see it at Wentworth quite often. It's like, well, just make sure you go long. As long as you cover the water, it's absolutely fine. And um, I think it just detracts from those front watery hazards.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Yeah, no, I know what I mean. What caused for it to China? Do you know? No idea. No, no idea. Uh couldn't even tell you where it was, just in China.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Yeah, yeah, fair. Yeah, all right. Let's get into the main event. Now, I was really keen to get this one um this one down because I think it's relatively well known that we are heading to Sand Valley this summer, which is up there. We're one of the best resorts in the world, an all-on-site resort, we'll we'll call it. Now, I think there's a very good argument to say the best all-on-site resort is Banner Junes. Now, I know you've been, and so keen to hear all of your thoughts, all of the courses, all the setup, everything about it. So I'll give you the floor. Give us give us a quick overview. What is Bannon Junes? I think it's gonna be very, very hard. Um, this is my opening statement on Bannon Junes. I think it's gonna be very, very hard for anywhere to compete with the amount of quality golf in it and that resort. I think it's got to be the number one in the world. I really do. Um, I'm saying that having not played Japinehursts, but again, the rankings would suggest that it's nowhere near. Having not played Sand Valleys, which we're looking forward to playing, having not played any of the Cabot in like, you know, but they're not as big. Um, there's obviously Brandon Junes was the the blueprint for all of the like for the sand valleys of the world for the other um and forgive me for not knowing the names of these other ones, but you've got like the Utah one, you know, essentially Brandon Junes has has set the tone. And and as we've spoken before, the idea that make it good enough, people will come. Yeah, I love that. And and for me, that has to hold some some value as well, because without Bannon Dunes, I I I wonder where we'd be in whether these areas of golf would actually be cropping up. Um you've got five. Well, when I went, and I appreciate that they're trying to they're still growing, you have five golf courses, three of which are in the top hundred in the world. Yep. And you've got a part three course that if there was a top hundred in the world on part three courses, it'd be in the top two. Don't even need to see the rest of them in the world. I'm just I'm not saying one because I can't confirm that, but it's unbelievable. And they've now got a shorties course as well, which which is it's pretty new, but you know, it's kind of just like a wall-up area, I think, for yeah, Shorties opened in 2004. Um, and yeah, much like Brand Banner Preserve is uh is a par three course, basically. So two par three courses and then um five 18s is what what I'm saying. Fine. Okay, so Shorties was there. I was there in a few years ago, just before COVID. So Shorties was there, that'll be next to the range. There are some holes down there. We didn't get on that, didn't look like necessarily something that we had to do, but do it if you're on site.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Did I just say 2004? 2024, sorry, Shorties.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

So maybe they're building it when you're there. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, we that wasn't open. Okay, cool. Um difficult to get to. Here's the first thing we say. Um, we we went via San Francisco, and then San Francisco flies into North Bend, and then it's like 25 minutes, half an hour from North Bend. North Bend literally has one flight a day from San Francisco, it's about 11, quarter past eleven, something like that. So you've got to be there. Ready to do that. I believe, yeah, don't miss it. And and honestly, it's a it's a smallish flight. I think it's about an hour and a half. Everyone on that flight is wearing a golf quarter zip. Like it's literally just golfers. Just a private jet, basically. Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Um, so you can either go from San Fran to North Bend or I believe it's Colorado. They're the only two places that fly into North Bend at a specific time on the day. Other routes down, you a couple of people I know that have been have flown into Portland, driven down and played Chambers Bay en route. Yeah, nice, and then gone in, which I think is a good route, albeit it's it's a pretty long drive. So you would be wanting to stop off and play some golf along the way, which is always a great thing, no problem there, but worth bearing in mind if you are doing that, that North Bend and Bandon Dunes have a um shuttle service from the North Bend airport. So it's it's really, really easy if you can get yourself to there. How long is that drive? About 25 minutes. Okay, no. 25 minutes rather than like about six hours. Yeah, so you're pretty much there. Yeah, it's and what yeah, it's you fly in, you you kind of catch a bit of a glimpse of it, but you're right in the pocket. Yeah, you're you're really, really close to it, and um proper backwater America, uh, you know, real West Coast, untapped West Coast, um, but so natural because there's there's just nothing there. Um, they've done a phenomenal, phenomenal job of of the place. You drive in and you've got your you've got your cabins and your huts that are all sort of strewn all over the place. You've got the hotel that's in the main building, if you want to do that as well and take that box. You've got full villas, well, villas I call them, but like houses that you can get multiple people from the same, like big groups in. It just does cater to everything. Um, and and it was pretty obvious to that right from the get-go. You know, you've got the big Ban and Junes Pro Shop that's just opposite the the reception where they greet you and they they bring you into, but then they also have pro shops at each of the golf courses with their own logos, with their own merch. Like it's just golfing mecha.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

What the so so that big pro shop that's kind of upon arrival, does that just carry all of the different courses in it?

SPEAKER_03 29:46

Or is that uh is that the Bandon Dunes one and then the other courses have others? Like what's what's the setup there? So from memory, that is the Bandon Dunes one. Like that is where you can get markers of all the others and a few different bits and pieces, but in terms of merch and kit, that is the Bandon Dunes, the logo that's the puffin. It's puffing, that's pretty standard. That is that logo in that shop. It's a bigger and it's a bigger shop because it's a it's a bigger unit. Um so we were, yeah, I mean we were like a five-minute golf cart buggy away from there, just just down and round. Lovely little cabin. I mean, we woke up the first morning and there was like deer out in the gar in the garden bit. Like just, you know, you just the vibes are so high. Like there could have been a turd, just like a big turd sat in the garden. I'd be like, that's beautiful. That's just nature.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Who cares about the deer?

SPEAKER_03 30:40

All right. I think I think the the best way is this. Why don't you why don't you give everyone the overview of what golf you did in the number of days you did it? Because I I from memory it was a pretty action-packed uh layout. So so give us give us a flavour of how much you packed in, and then let's go course by course, breakdown. Yeah, good plan. So we arrived, and as I said, we've got like the quarter past 11 flight from San Fran. So that afternoon was a a smaller afternoon. So we went and did Bamden Preserve, which was the par three course. Also, like an arrival day, go and play the par three course. Love it. You have to go and play the par three course. It's like outrageous. It's an outrageously good. I think there's 12 holes, par three course. Honestly, if they were on the golf courses, you'd be like, this is one of the signature holes. It's absolutely phenomenal. And uh, and one of the boys, Harry, um, he got a hole in one on the seventh there. So that just kicked the trip off nicely. You know, obviously there's a bit of a rumbling on is is a part three hole in one a hole in one. I would say no, but it was able to, we were able to, we were able to tick that off. Um anyway, got the trip off to a real nice height.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Um didn't they didn't didn't they do a nice touch that like if you get a hole in one, they gave Harry something, you know, they kind of like there was more to it than just the hole in one.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

Absolutely, so we didn't know, so nothing happened. We were just like, we've got a hole in one, we're enjoying it, it's great. Well, we, there's no we about it. Harry got a hole in one, for a we're all enjoying it. Yeah, it's like when Daddy Willett talks about him and his caddy, we it's like, come off it, man, it's you. Um and then on the last day, yeah, reception we said to Harry, they were like, We've actually got you something, can you just head over to the Bandon Preserve to pick it up? Like, there's something there waiting for you. What's that? Anyway, he came back with a lovely framed picture of that hole and a hole in one on it, like really nice touch. It would be right behind me there. Like, really, really nice touch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's it's nice, it's touches like that. And and I think the other thing to call out before I get into the itinerary, which I know is the question, but I'm just waxing lyrical. Unlike some resorts where you they get you on site, they know you've got nowhere else to go, and they charge you for it. Bannon Dunes isn't one of those. Like, they get you on site, but similar to like the Sand Valley, where it's like two dollar tacos or whatever, it's normal prices for that area. Like, it's not we've heard stream song is incredibly expensive when you get on site because they know they've got you, and I think that almost devalues and limits your enjoyment. Whereas when it's all really fair and they're not just trying to take your money, you can enjoy it even more, if that makes sense. Yeah. So now I'm gonna get into the itinerary. The other thing that to bear in mind at the certainly certainly at the time when we went, the way that it was priced up was that your first round of the day is$300, your second round of the day is$150, your third round of the day is free, and your fourth round of the day you get$100 back. So depending on how crazy you want to be, you can play four courses for$350, theoretically. Yeah. We decided to have a pretty heavy schedule that we thought we'll play two a day. So we'll maximise that half price second round. And then what that will allow us to do, and what we did after a few of the days was after the second round, if we fancied nine holes somewhere, you're basically treated like a member. It's like, oh yeah, there's a spot on Sheep Ranch or Old McDonald or Bannon Trails or Bannon Duty, like wherever. We'll just wish you over there and you can just play as many holes as you want over there because it's a fruit. Like, and that was quite a nice experience as well to be able to be like, yeah, fancy it or nah, not today, can't be asked. Um which was was pretty good. So we had a pretty action-packed schedule, as I say. We did Bannon Preserve on the first afternoon, uh arrival afternoon. We then did and forgive me, the order may be slightly wrong, but we did Bandon Dunes, Abandoned Trails, Pacific Dunes, Old McDonald, Sheep Ranch, Abandoned Dunes.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

So we bookended about two Bandon Dunes and we played all the other courses once.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Love it. Um which we we feel like it was a pretty good itinerary. The only thing that would switch around is Sheep Ranch, would play it in the afternoon. We got quite bad fog, and you can it's get quite because it's so on the Pacific coast, yeah. The fog comes in in the morning, yeah, and actually certainly the front line impacted some of those views. It was a really, really foggy chance to burn off. Um exactly that. And we were there in August, so it does burn off and it does get hot and lovely really nice, but yeah, just that was something to bear in mind that we didn't know when we when we first went there. So really good start. So that was the itinerary.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Nice, yeah. No, that's a good good tidbit, I think, for Sheep Ranch.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Um, and I love personally the pricing uh of the kind of scaling and then money back if you get to round four because it it ultimately just dangles the carrot in front of the golf sicko.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

And I'd imagine what normally happens is people almost they probably do what you do, book in the 36 and being like, yeah, well, we'll have a look after, and then probably more often than not, don't play any more holes and so ban and just consistently have guests playing 36 holes, which is exactly what they want. So whoever came up with that, good on them.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

They knew what they were doing. Yeah, it's it's a really yeah, it's it's a smart play, isn't it? And and it does give you such a nice touch, feeling like you've got that member status in like on the third round. It's like, yeah, just where'd you fancy? You're like, oh yeah, go on then. I'll I'll have a have a clip on that one again. So that was pretty nice.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Okay, cool. So let's let's get into it course by course. So your first 18 hole was a band and dunes. Now, obviously, before you set on foot on the first T, you probably had a pro a proper raid in that pro shop. I'm gonna I'm gonna just ask you to kind of pro shop me along as well as uh do the courses. So uh kick me off with Band and Junes.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Yeah, absolutely. So um it's worth noting that I got my car smashed into and my clubs nicked a year after Bandon Dunes, and all of my Bandon Dunes, just about all of my Bandon Dunes merch was in there. Uh which which is hurt. Like that's the painful part. Like, really, you know, you can you can get your get your golf clubs, you know, you get new golf clubs if anything, it's a great thing. Like, I'm not I'm not here. Oh, you've got new golf clubs. Yeah, yeah. But it's the it's the mementos, it's the ball markers, it's the band and dunes Yeti that I got. It was the b the old McDonald towel that I got. Like it's those small mementos that really you've got to get back there to do it again. I'm not I know you can order it online, but I'm just not gonna do that. I've got to be on property. Yeah, I've got to be on property for me to get that. So I was a bit of a shame. I actually held off on the Bandon Dunes Pro shop until the end because I wanted to get a feel for some of the different areas beforehand and get that feel. The one thing I did purchase, I should say, is the pack of six ball markers, one for each of the different five courses and a band and preserve, which was a beautiful butterfly marker. Loved it. And I used to use that a lot. Um, so that was in the bag that's goal. Um so I used all of those and I used them on their course. I like to use the ball marker on the specific course. So I hadn't actually pulled trigger on any band and merch. The only actual Bandon June's merch that I had already got my eye on was Christmas, my dad loves his golf. Bandon June's top was just like it was coming back with me. Like I'd seen one, he likes his navy, clean navy, Seviesque. And um I was like, that's the top that's coming back with me for my dad. Other than that, I'd not really decided where I was gonna go. So we all had caddies. We had um, well, it was it was two bags to a caddy. So we had, and and we were paying in pairs, obviously, um, better ball matches that that really uh really got stuck into. So we had um me and me and Harry had Miguel, big Miguel, who was a great guy, he was big lad, walking round 36 holes in the sun in a boiler suit hadn't hadn't impacted him. He must have a nice appetite. Um and I can't remember who Ryan and Ryan's mate Brett B. Ked had. Um, but we had Miguel very good, they were good, both Mexican guys, good crack. You could tell they were gambling so heavily on our matches, it was just great because your whole opport, they're celebrating more than you. Yeah, bad shot, and they're giving it the grunt, you know, all those sorts of things that you really want. It was great. Um Bandon Junes, I thought I thought was excellent. I thought it was a really, really great starting point, and I was really glad we got to play it twice, actually. Um it's not a number one, but we'll get into that as we move through later on. Right from the get-go, you're just presented with holes that ask questions that allow you to play them in various different ways. You can take them on with hit driver and try and get over and through the dunes a little bit more and take some things on, have easier pitches into typically raised greens with with lots of runoff areas and bits and pieces like that. Or you can play it back to pretty generous fairways, it's fair to say, but you've just got further in. Like it Bannon Dunes is is we play when we played it, not that windy, pretty nice day. Wasn't actually a crazy tough test.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

What um just try and set the scene a little bit like someone who's not seen it. What's the topography like?

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Like uh, you know, we're on the west coast, like how yeah, like you said, you mentioned dunes there. Is it very much on the coast? Like, what are you actually seeing in front of you? Yeah, so the the one of the real beauties of Bandon Dunes is you play quite a few different styles of golf in the same location. So Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes, I would say probably even more so sheep branch, or well, Bandones, Pacific Dunes between the dunes, some some head, some heathland, but but between the dunes, you're on the coast, you've got a few holes that really whip up the sea. You've on your left, on your right, you've got massive drop-offs. You see the big beach and the Pacific Ocean there, so you've got like the the real links, it's not a lynx, you know, it doesn't feel like a lynx actually, but right on the coast, June Gulf. And then you've got probably Sheep Ranch, where they creved they wanted it so that 18 holes, 18 greens were on the coast. So that's like really, really on the coast, which is why I mentioned the fog. You want to be able to see it. Um, Old Mac is a combination of all of the best um old MacDonald holes. That's why it's called that. It's all of his best creations across the world brought together and made as an 18-hole golf course. So that has a bit of everything, but still sort of on that same land. And then you've got Bandon Trails, which is incredibly tree-lined, big tall pines, right through, you know, almost like a Surrey golf course without the the Heathland, but very very similar to a Surrey golf course. So, yeah, what we're looking at in Bandon Dunes as we start is lots of um undulation, winding, like well bunkered, winding between some dunes, and they kind of come up either side of you. You don't often see other holes around you, but then an interestingly you know, every so often you throw in a green right on the right on the camera. You know, if you for example, I think it's the sixth off the top of my head, par three, you miss it left, you're on the beach, you're on the atlan, you're on the Pacific beach. Like, good luck. The sixteenth is obviously the the premier hole on the right is the beach, and it's right out. You can go for it or you can lay it across. So they've it's beautiful, it really is. But I would say that the prime primary feature are the dunes and the undulation on Bandon Dunes. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

So it sounded like a good opening gab at 79 in the world. Um, it was the first course built on property, as Josh said.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

Uh Puffin logo, which I suppose that is the Bandon Dunes logo, is the resort logo. Um and it and it sounds like the right place to start, I'd say. First golf course built on property. It it feels it feels about right that you got out there first. 100%. And the other thing is, you know, you sat certainly the first evening, they've got a great fire pit that overlooks the 18th on Bandon, and it's the and the main restaurant overlooks the first tea at Bandon. So really you sat looking at that golf course the most. So you want to get that clipped off so you can get a feel for it and you can know what's what people are doing. 18's a good past five, so you're watching people laying up or playing in. And the first is it's a fairly easy path up. I wouldn't say weak, but just pretty generous fairway. You can make your issues from there. You're not going to watch too many people in it into the CAC. Um so yeah, I would say that's a really good starting point. Get yourself out on that golf course, get a feel for it, and then just enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Perfect. Alright, so we've had hole in one round preserve.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

We we've kicked off with the original 18, and then you move to your afternoon of full day one. Yeah, so we um we then went over to Bandon Trails. So we ate just after Bandon Dunes in the like Bandon Dunes sort of grill, sports bar grill type thing, just very standard. Well, not standard, but just like very standard, like clubhouse food and like what you'd expect at a normal golf club.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

And then we went over to Bandon Trails, which is a completely different experience. Um completely tree-lined, tighter than everyone everywhere else. I know a lot of the Americans think that this is the best golf course. Um, and I think it's because it's a different style to what you typically see.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Whereas I think I was underwhelmed, I think it was still very good, but out of, you know, I'm kind of giving away the rankings a little bit, but for me it was the worst golf course on the property. It wasn't a bad golf course by any means, like I'd still happily go and play it tomorrow, and I feel like this is great. But when you could we're comparing it such a high bar at this point, because it's so similar to a lot of our very, very good golf courses over here, I'm comparing it to a St. George's Hill, to a Sunningdale, to all these like big boy, big boy golf courses that are better than it. So I'm like, well, this is just a worst version of a golf course that I could play an hour from my home. It's kind of how I felt. Oh, but yeah, the sun's there and all that sort of vibe. Um, Great Holes, yeah. The 14th was I think the the story goes that those that that built Bandon Dunes, the 14th T, they were kind of stood up on the 14th T, and that was where they got the idea for the whole property. Not the mic there, the whole property. And so it's this par four that massive drop-off down to the smallest green again on the property, I think, certainly on the golf course. Um again, you can you can go for it, and there's bunkers all over the place where you can lay it back with like a five-iron and flick down. It's not the longest hole, but it's quite a nice point, it's one of the highest points there, and you can see around for quite a long, quite a long way. Um, a really good golf course, a good logo as well, to be fair.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Really good logo. Um, just wasn't, as I've said, it's something that we we play a lot of golf like that.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

It didn't get me going.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Yeah, interesting that. Um, so by the rankings, 78, so one higher than Bannon Junes, but by sounds of it, a completely different style, and maybe just a style that we've got an embarrassing of riches of here in the UK. And so uh yeah, I and I can I can I can understand why the Americans would love that.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

Like it probably is is different, and it's not something they see a huge amount over there. You think of that very kind of almost um god, what's the wrong like clinical style of golf course that they've got in in most of America, and so um seeing that kind of well-defined tree line course which we're used to um probably does does hit them. Logo-wise, it is that's the butterfly, my my understanding, which I yeah, yeah. So the preserve has a butterfly, and trails has a butterfly, is is also like the preserve has like a P and a butterfly type. Yeah, yeah, the main butterfly, sorry, is Trails. And I love that. I think that's the best logo out of the lot. I yeah, I'm gonna let what we'll do is we'll do a logo ranking alongside a course ranking. And now I've obviously not played the courses, but I feel like I can rank the logos. If if that if you're happier with me to do that with you, 100% 100%.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Okay, cool. So ban and dunes, banning trails. So in a day, you've clipped off the 79th and the 78th best golf course in the world, which let me tell you, that must that must feel good.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

Just a look, bang bang! Get it done. Yeah, yeah, the double barrel shotgun came out and we just took it to the world rankings.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Yeah. Oh dude. Uh, so any more golf after that, or would you call it a day off 36? Did you did did you cash in?

SPEAKER_03 48:35

We we went and played nine on Pacific Dunes, because Pacific Dunes is again very close to Bandon Dunes, and we were there just like we'll have a little look. We'll get we'll we'll have a look, of course.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

We'll have a look, a little, a little, a little just peek, a little bit of research. So let's let's dive into it in the proper form. So uh, so I assume you had a great evening, dinner around the fire pit, also, and and we always speak about three P's and is it a five?

SPEAKER_03 49:05

And correct me if I'm wrong, like I I think your benchmark is Bannon Junes when you're like it is that it is the best five out there, is it not?

SPEAKER_02 49:14

It really is.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

It's you know, as a patio, as far as the patio goes, the fact that every golf course has a form of patio is great, but the the fire pit that overlooks the Bannon Junes 18th for me is right up there as one of the great golfing patios. You can't ask for more practice facilities, they literally have short golf courses that you can just go and warm up on. They have a full grass range, they've got putting greens, chipping greens at each of the courses. Like, you just can't, and then Pro Shops they have a different logo for every course on the same property. It doesn't get better, it just doesn't get better than that, and they're all good logos. Like when we start ranking these logos, none of them are like that's crap. They're all good logos. It's it's almost as if for once someone knew what they were doing. Anyway, let's get into day two. Day two. So day two, we get up very excited. We have um dined in the McKeese Irish Bar. Um, so again, pretty standard. They have opened a new steakhouse off the back of old McDonald's since we were there, which would have been hit a lot more had that been open, we'd we'd have been in there most nights, I would have said. Um because I did feel like out of everything, maybe the variation of restaurants was the only thing that wasn't quite there. Um, but they've now they've now done that um that pretty well with with the steakhouse from what we're hearing. So the next morning we get up and it is it's a sheep ranch morning. It's a sheep ranch morning. So we um get ourselves and it's a little bit further away, sheep ranch, still on the property, but it's your longest for us, it was our longest drive just to get out to Sheep Ranch. It's the newest golf course. Um and I would say it's the most generous golf course. There's I I I felt like it was shorter, I felt like it was more scorable, still a great golf course. Um as I say, the first sort of nine holes was was really impacted by the fog for us. And I think there's a real stretch of about four, five, six that are right on the coast. So I can't actually talk to them too much. Um it's four or six, literally, it's you tee off and it's a dog leg left to right, and the further right you cut the corner, which is if you don't cut the corner, you're on the beach, so you're getting over the edge of the beach, the shorter the shot in is, and it's a pretty low index as well. I think it's it's one or two, and I got a shot there. Um and I think that that would have been a really magnificent hole to have seen properly. Now this the sheep ranch finish, the sort of 16th, 17th in particular, are unbelievable. Like the 17th short part four with the a couple of similar trees to what you see is the old McDonald logo, which we will get on to originally. You can take driver and go for it, but again, it's you've got the Pacific Ocean all down your left, you can bail out right. It's just so and the fairway is pretty much it's it's pretty much fairway and then drop. They don't have rough, they just like it's like made to be really tight on the hole on there. It was beautiful, and the the fog had lifted, and we really were able to enjoy the the back nine much more. Um I think out of all of them, it's the one I felt I didn't see as much because of that fog. Um enjoyed it though. It was and I know we've not spoken about old McDonald's yet, but I felt like it was the Pam Barton version of Old McDonald. And what I mean by that, for those who don't know RMS or midsurrey, is it was a smaller, easier version of a bigger course, but in the same in the same styling. And I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a it's a fun golf course. That's that's the biggest thing to call out from that. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

So yeah, it's the it's the only one that doesn't find itself in the top 100 in the US. You've got um yeah, it's seventh in states, which considering there's four other golf courses there, you can you can fill in the blanks. Um I suppose as it's slightly further away, as you described, you're probably the least likely to go and play it as your third round or fourth round.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

Would that ring true? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I I we typically played Bannon Dunes or Pacific Dunes as our third round, just because it was like right there, easy to easy to just just clip off. Um, as I said before, the intention is for 18 of the greens to be like with really serious sea views, and that's a pretty nice wrinkle, if you ask me. It's a very Vista-heavy, fun golf course, and I would say that fun, fun, and you should go and play it. You really, really should. I know it's not ranked the same as the others, but it's the newest. Um, you really should play it. It's a great test. It's it's a great fun test of golf. 100%. I feel if you're gonna make the effort to get all the way out there, you you've got to clip all five, haven't you? Um nice logo, quite quite Nan-like in Scotland. Um, but do enjoy the Sheep Ranch logo. Actually, quite quite a good um, quite a good story. I remember watching the Masters going back a couple of years, and this is when you know I've not been to Bandon, but I've obviously learned more about it, learn what the different logos are. And I just remember seeing this quite kind of comically comical looking guy uh behind the T on 16 Augusta. He was kind of very thick set, really ridiculous sunglasses on, and just kind of had a bit of a frown on him.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

And he had one of those Bo Hustler visors with the little SR and the thing on his thing, and I was just like, Hey, I I know, I see you.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Yeah, and I bet when uh whenever they sell one of those visors, I bet they have to like ring a bell and be like, we've caught an idiot, like someone's bought a visor.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

So that's a lot of the staff.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna say something um that will shock you and you'll be disappointed by.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

I would like to see one of those visors with a good logo on it, and I would just like to confirm I look like an idiot in one. You know what I mean? As in, like, a bit like a bit like the Ian Polter era.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Like, did I pick up a Cobra visor and just see if it looked good?

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Just just double check if it looked good. I did, and I looked like an idiot. So um, yeah, maybe I I just you know, I'm feeling vulnerable and I'm admitting that to you, but maybe I will just try that on a changing room and not let you see.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

If it, you know, I'm just I'm just gonna put it out out there.

SPEAKER_03 56:03

Yeah, I think that's an internal view, it's an internal look and just a check off. Um thankfully I don't have that curiosity. I already know that I'll look like a tit. So that'll be none of that from me. Um I think we're doing Keith Mitchell a disservice calling it a bow hostler. Keith Mitchell's now really running running the rule with it on it.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

So uh I've I I feel like the look is one of those visors, and then like the raw St. George's long socks with shorts, like and then a McKenzie bag. Like I I I feel like I've seen it quite a lot uh of late. Anyway, let's let's let's not get stuck too too long on on visors. Uh so sheep ranch in the morning of day two.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

Where do we head for the afternoon? So the afternoon we did um Pacific Dunes, and so we went from what was the easiest course on the property to the beast, the course that just wants to kill you. Um I think it's the highest ranked golf course if I'm right.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

26th in the world, so really quite a significant leap forward, and uh, you know, you're into pretty pretty elite territory up in the top top 30.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

Yeah, it's it's just hard. It's just hard, and the second round of the day, you're a little bit tired as well. I would say probably try and play it in the morning, would probably be my my reference. Like if I if I'm going when I go back, uh I'll try and play that in the morning, and I'd switch them and play Sheep Ranch in the afternoon. You know, you can then get that fun, like you can have a you're a bit looser, you can just wang driver wherever you want. Pacific Dunes is a same has a similar ilk feeling-wise to Bandon Dunes, in that it winds between some dunes, but it feels like there's more heathers. I feel like that's the wrong word. I feel like that's not what it is, but it kind of is like gauzey and like yeah, like gauzey. Yeah, it's like dunes and gauze rather than just dunes on Bandon Dunes, so you can find it and you can like flick it out, albeit you're gonna have a it's tighter, it winds between like actual cabbage, so you can't find your balls at times. There's there's holes right up the coast. I think the fourth again is right again, goes sort of the Pacific on your right, you're right up there, and it's tight anyway. So the left is like Heathland gauze bushes, so you can't even bail out left on this one. I think it's the ninth has an interesting um little wrinkle to it as well, in that it has two greens. So you can you play to the fairway, and on at the start of the day they'll tell you which green is in play. And we played it down to the left, which is I would say an easier hole than up onto the right on a plateau, and it all falls off from the right. So we kind of had a bit of an easier ninth. Um it it was it was magnificent, it really was, and architecturally you can see why it was 26th in the world. It wasn't my favourite on the property, and I think that might be part of it was hard, didn't play that well, and again, we've we talked about the subjective elements as to what makes your your love of a golf course. I think it's one that you know I've mentioned that Sheep Ranch is the one that I felt like I didn't see the most of, but the one I'd want another crack at was Pacific Dunes. So that's what I'd really want to go and have another crack at it. Phenomenal golf course, um, and a really beautiful clubhouse restaurant that kind of like sits on the top and has a seafood. I think I think their main thing is seafood in there, and um sort of 360 views from the top. You can see the the Pacific, Dunes, first tea, but then also you've got the um the band and dunes answer to the cradle at Pinehurst, you know, with the big putting green with the sort of like van out there that are set selling like beers and things and like crazy undulations, and you've got like 18 or 30 or whatever it is, how many holes are on there that kind of interwine or so you've got that that sort of thing is is there as well, which is pretty cool. Nice cool. And that's uh Pacific Drini, relatively close to the accommodation, like that's that's kind of band and position. Pretty close, yeah. Yeah, you're close enough that it's it's walkable if you want, like you can just go nip out and and do that. And then we clipped, we actually clipped another nine at Bandon, which played abandoned again. We played the back nine at Bandon um after that. And uh what I then found was, and this this has to be said actually, because it would be remiss of me not to mention it. So we've had two 36 whole days. Obviously, we've had some beers, we had some beers, you have some beers after round one, of course you do. We've then played another nine holes, so it's actually a 45 whole day. I've done a quick math there currently, yeah, maybe. Um beers, not as much sleep because you're all you're playing. So we get into the Pacific Dunes restaurant um on the well, I guess is our third night because we've we've obviously had the the j the welcoming night, the arrival night.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

And um we've had a lovely meal, really nice meal. Next thing I know, I sat there chatting. Next thing I know, I feel like I'm asleep. It's the only time in my life that I've passed out.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:25

Fully passed out. Sat at the table, sat at the table with the same dudes, like fully fainted, like fully gone, like head hit the table by all accounts. Uh Harry's like shouting in the restaurant, like shit, we'd be in an ambulance, all that sort of stuff. Um I thought I was joking. Yeah, I've never known I've never known this. Gone, yeah, just absolutely gone. Never, never happened before, never happened since. Um and honestly, I felt like I was dreaming. Like I like I woke up, like I felt like I'd just woken up and I kind of sat back and I was like, oh, why am I in a restaurant? And then like everyone in the restaurant is looking at me. And I've just honestly, probably the number one time in my life that I wanted to shrink into the floor and just not be there. I really, really was just like, I need to get out of this place now. So I need to expel some demons in that restaurant, to be honest. Like it was just a really yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

So so really you're just looking to redo the Pacific's Juniors experience all the way around. Yeah, you're looking to manoeuvre your white ball around the golf course slightly more efficiently, maybe in the morning would be preferable, and then just not completely blackout in the restaurant, which sounds fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

Yeah, I think both of those would be uh a massive step forward. Uh, yeah. Oh dear, I can't believe I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Uh, nice little seal kind of situation logo going on with Pacific Dunes, and I said, yeah, 26th in the world. So so it is on paper anyway.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Uh, the premier golf course. Um, and then and then finish her off. So so the I know you played twice in the last day, but we've we've covered Band of Junes. But the last course, Old McDonald ranked 100 in the US, so just clips in that ranking. Uh, beautiful logo. Um, what was the golf course like? The golf course is excellent. Loved the golf course. I mean, it starts, you play one and two that are fine, and on that same like 18 is on that same sort of part of the golf course, and then three, you hit up and over this mound, and that's where the tree is, the old McDonald tree. Well, I feel like it's gone. I'm sure I've heard rumblings that it got I think a storm knocked it down. No, do you know what I'm thinking about this morning, and I was like, oh god, it's gonna be such a shame if that goes. I mean you you wax lyrical and I'll just google it. Yeah, so you you play over on the third, you play over it's a I don't know, 180, 200 yard carry to get over this mound. That then as you get over the mound, it just all opens out in front of you, and old McDonald is in front of you, and actually some elements of Sheep Ranch are there as well in front of you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

Um so it just you get over there, it all opens up in front of you, and it just is so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

You know, it's a little bit wider, but like it's got all of the best McDonald holes across the world. So, and you can get a feel for them. So you've got a Chicago golf club, one of the and they give you a sheet as well on the first that will tell you what each hole is looking to represent. So I think you've got like the old the 17th, the road hole at St. Andrews, like you've got all of these different things, and again you can see it, and you do need in some ways that sheet to go, oh yeah, I can kind of see how that bunker and that green fits that way. And obviously, it's a different type of trouble. So I think the the road hole has like gores all up the same place where the hotel would be. You obviously don't have a hotel there, but like they're trying to recreate the design of the holes as much as possible. I just thought it was such a fun experience of golf, and I do I do think that one, two, and eighteen are probably the reasons why it doesn't get into that top hundred in the world because they are just like fine, really fine, but then you've got 14 holes, 15 holes, all sat together that are majestic, you've got views of the sea, it's undulated, it feels like an old school Lynx track in that not too many dunes, but quite like you can see a lot of holes that are aside each other to the side of each other, but still good definition and sensational. Tree's still there. Uh 2003, the 2023, there was a bad storm which almost blew it over, but they've kind of pinned it down with cables apparently.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:47

Um, so tree is still there, which is the logo.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Question for you Do you think that a lack of originality?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

Impacts a golf course in terms of its status in rankings and stuff like that. Because if this is, you know, if if you're just taking copies of holes from elsewhere and just wedging them all together, is it, dare I say, is it almost a bit gimmicky? Old McDonald was for me the best course in the property. So no. I think for people who are ranking it, maybe because they're looking at a different thing, but from an experience point of view, no, it was really cool. It was so cool. Like it really, really was cool. Uh just a great golf course. Really, really good golf course. And you know, I'm looking back and I'm trying to say exactly why it was my favourite. But actually, what was really interesting was we all walked off and went, that was the best. That was the best course we played.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

Okay, let me let me let me stop you in your tracks there and and and pose a question to you. So give us give us a just a you know a couple of a couple of points on each as you go through.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:58

But you've done it, you've gone to Bannon Dunes, you've played all the Bandon Dune golf courses. How do you rank them?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:08

So I personally will rank them one Old McDonald, two Bandon Dunes, three Pacific Dunes, four Sheet Ranch, five Bandon Trails.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:23

And I can give you some reasons why Old McDonald was fun, it was brilliant, I loved it. Bandon Dunes is Bannon Dunes. Again, I just I played it well, we played it twice, so you get a feel for it a little bit more, and I think that does impact. Pacific Dunes 3, people will be scoffing at what I've said. I appreciate it's the best architectural golf course, and I think if I played it better and got another look at it, it may well go to one. But I can only offer subjective opinion of didn't have my best day, does impact, and it was it beat me up, quite frankly. Sheep Ranch 4. Again, we got enough that back nine of the views, and I've already said I've said all along on this podcast, I'm a big Vistas guy, great Vistas, but I can appreciate as a golf course, it probably should sit five. But I'm I'm not an architect, I'm not an architect, I don't design golf courses. I get all my experience, what I enjoyed, so it's four. And then Bandon Trails at five. Again, people will be like that. I've just played a lot of golf like that, and I played a lot of courses that look like that but are better, so it didn't wow me as much as the others did, just because, as we said earlier, we have a wealth of of that a lot closer that are again world-ranked golf courses that are very highly world-ranked golf courses. So they'd be my five. I'd love people to challenge it, and I'm sure, and I think this is the great thing about Bannon Dunes, whichever way you kind of have it, others are gonna have it differently, but they are all sensational and they're all well worth you have to play them all.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:54

Love it, and I and I think that's what I'm really looking forward to at Sound Valley as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:57

I think there's there's gonna be really quite stark differences between them. So uh I can just imagine end of last day, us sitting around and everyone doing their rankings, and like I'm I'm I'm here for it, let me tell you. All right, let's let let's cap off with uh the the kind of alt rankings, if you will. So how do you rank the five Band and Dunes course logos?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:26

One to five or five to one? One to five. Okay. So if you go on the website, you look at Old McDonald's and it's the circular OM. If you get in the Pro Shot, you get the tree. Now the circular OM would be number five logo. The tree is number one, the tree is so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:56

Like the tree is actually the benchmark of what good looks like as a logo. It's it's that good for me. I think it's sick, you know. It's on that course, it's just clean. Everyone you see it, you know that's old McDonald. Like it's brilliant. I got a top with the tree, I've got a quarter zip with a tree, like I've got a quarter zip with a tree, so that was all I didn't damage the tree. I could never see them.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

What are they?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:21

It's a warm weather one, it's a warm weather, light blue one that I was a little bit slimmer at the time when I when I bought it, and it's one of those that it's just probably wrong, wrongish. It's close enough for it to be maybe a trussed up turkey. But I and I don't know. I don't know how I want to. You know, some some people, you know, their their their kind of goal is to get back in their wedding suit or whatever it might be. Yours is, so you want to get back in your old McDonald yeah. Fact. Absolutely fact. And I bought the the towel as well, which is with son criminal. Um so that's number one. Old McDonald. Now I'm gonna go a little bit off piste here. My number two is gonna be Sheep Ranch. And the reason is that I think it's a really clean the stick with the SR. Now, Bandon Trails would be number two if it was just the butterfly. Yeah. But it's the butterfly and then says band and trails under it. And I think anytime there's writing, it takes away from like the actual. And again, the butterfly might even be like right up there with old Mac. Still, I think the tree's amazing, so it would stay there. So I'm gonna go for Sheep Ranch number two. I think it's clean, and I think it's I really like the Nairn logo. So again, as we mentioned, very similar to that, I think it looks great. I think it's clean, I think it's beautiful. So I'm gonna go number two for there. I'm gonna go number three, Bandon Trails, because I think it's the best of the three logos that then have text underneath. Yeah. Number four, I'm gonna go Bandon Dunes with a puff in. Uh and then number five, I'm going for Pacific Dunes. I feel like I'm really shitting on Pacific Dunes a little bit. I couldn't find a better word. I was gonna try not to swear, but that's what I'm doing, isn't it? And I don't know, I don't know. I think the seals just I yeah, doesn't really represent anything to me. And yeah, everything else at Bannon Dunes is the puffing, so I'm gonna go that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:25

That's how I'm going to go. So old Mac, Sheep Ranch, Bannon Trails, Bannon Dunes, Pacific Dunes. And do you know what, Joshua?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:35

I have it exactly the same as you.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:38

Yeah. Nice, exactly the same as you. I love a bit of FPG alignment.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:44

Um, yeah, old Mac is just absolutely quality.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:47

I think Sheep Ranch is absolutely quality, and I would intend on doing huge amounts of damage in both of those two, and then uh yeah, I could I could take or leave the others, as I said, it's just just a bit text heavy for me. Um would obviously enjoy the ball markers a lot, uh, but would probably wouldn't look to go overly aggressive on stash.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:08

Yeah, and and funny you say that, as I say, I got quarters it from Old MacDonald and a towel from Old MacDonald. I got a nice floral sheep ranch polo. Got my dad a Bandon Dunes top, but I didn't get my and then I got like a Yeti that was Bannon Dunes Yeti, but I didn't buy anything merch wise, Pacific Dunes or Bannon Dunes, other than then the bull markers. Did you see the new um Commons course that San Valley released their logo um last week?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:37

I haven't seen any good.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:41

No, I've I didn't know I'm it's I've got I've got I I'm not sure I'm haven't really settled on what my opinion on San Valley's logos generally are. Like, you know, I I I think they've gone for the same formula, they get it, like different logos each courses, blah blah blah, and like there's clearly some thought that's gone into them, and I know a lot of people that really like them. I just don't think I'm absolutely captured by any of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

Like, I'd put old Mac and Sheep Ranch higher than anything that's going to be on offer of Sand Valley, I think, but I just haven't got there yet, and so I'm gonna yeah, reserve full opinion post post-trip. But um, you know, can you be buying loads of merch from a from a golf course with 13 holes as well? Like, I've got a bit of an internal debate going on there as well, but it looks like an amazing 13-hole golf course, but you know, it's not an 18-track, so it'll be interesting. Um nice. Well, I I think just close. I mean, Ballon Junes is incredibly hard to actually go to these days.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:43

Like, it's uh my understanding is you're you're in a ballot and your chances are are not fantastic. Um, but you got the opportunity, maybe just it was kind of swinging up quite aggressively in terms of its popularity, and I think today it's it's something that if you do get the chance, or certainly if you do want to, you've got to really plan ahead and really get your ducks in a row. Um, and then if if if the ballot does get pulled, you you need to go do it because it's it's really an all-time resort.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:12

Any any final thoughts before we sign off?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:15

Go and do it. Go and do it. It's hard, yeah. It's it's bit it's it's uh a sought-after place, it's hard to get. As you said, there you get the chance, go and do it. It's well worth the money. It's not cheap, but it's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:31

Nice, love it. Well, as I said, um you've done it. If everyone anyone's listened to this and is burning questions as a result of it, please do reach out. Josh would love to help out in any way he can. And I certainly hope to get out there at some point in my golfing career. I'm sure I will. Uh, as ever, we are full program golf, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. If you don't subscribe already, please do, and we'll keep churning these out. Josh E, really enjoyed that one, mate. And I will catch you in the next one.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:59

Catch you soon. Cheers, mate.