The Signs of Hurting with Lisa Terry, Part 1

Lisa Terry is the Owner, CEO and Head Coach at East Bay Gymnastics in Concord, CA. She is my friend and a beautiful advocate for her gymnasts as humans, first!
We discuss the incredible responsibilities of coaches and club owners, noticing the signs of kids struggling, asking poignant questions, listening with patience and supporting what the child needs. As Lisa says, "If my job was just coaching gymnastics, it would be easy." Learn the nuances of how to support and guide young gymnasts as they struggle.

This podcast is for all of us to rethink high performance and young athletes, to advocate for them and to integrate mental health and wellness in gymnastics and all sports. We are increasing our awareness of how to help kids when they’re struggling inside. The key is to learn the signs of hurting, and to live with a higher intention of seeing the gymnasts as humans first.

This is Part 1 of a 2-part episode. Also the first half is the interview with Lisa Terry, and the second half is a thoughtful monologue by Lisa Mitzel with helpful perspectives and advice. 

Around minutes 14-16 minutes, we touch on gymnasts’ mental health issues that may be sensitive to some listeners. 

Thank you for being here.

Find us on Instagram: @conditioned_to_win_podcast
Follow the host, Lisa Mitzel on Instagram: @lisa.mentalperformance          Follow our sponsor: @zentigermind 

Our Home webpage is  LisaMitzel.com/conditioned-to-win-podcast
Find our show on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Amazon Music

This is your journey to guide yourself toward transformation and to promote mental health for every child ~ I’m Sending you good vibes, deep breaths, and peace. 

Transcript

1, 2, 3, (breeeathe / music)  

Are you ready? Well, here we go.   

    I'm Lisa Mitzel and this is Conditioned to Win.      📍 (background music)

well, here we are, and I'm so grateful that you're here with me. 

Since this is my first show, a little background on me and  why this podcast.  ​ I was an elite gymnast in Southern California and a college gymnast at the University of Utah.  I have coached gymnastics at various private clubs and at Stanford University.  As a gymnast, I had a lot of success. But I also experienced injuries, surgeries, setbacks, a hell of a lot of pressure, and mental health issues.

Back then, I was lucky to work with two great sports psychologists who helped me with my gymnastics.  On the other hand, mental health, Was never talked about or the private struggles that athletes face  today. I'm a mental training and mental health coach in the sport of gymnastics.

And there are so many kids who need our help.  Mental health is a crisis for our youth. And I want to change that.   This podcast is for all of us to rethink high performance and young athletes, to advocate for them and to integrate mental health and wellness in sports. I think it's vital that we increase coach education so you can be more aware of how to help kids with when they're struggling inside./

   The key is to learn the signs of hurting and to live with a higher intention of seeing the gymnast as humans first.  So, not by accident, today's show is called The Signs of Hurting.  But first,  📍 (bell) If no one has told you recently,  you matter. Your thoughts and feelings matter.

Your mind and spirit matter. Wherever you are in the world, lead with your positive energy because you have something to contribute that is uniquely yours. 📍
(ocean wave)

Ooh, I'm so excited for this conversation. Lisa Terry is the owner, CEO and head coach at East Bay Gymnastics in Concord, California. She is my friend and she is a beautiful advocate for her gymnasts as humans first and taking care of their mental health. and wellness.  We talk candidly about the difficult moments in coaching, seeing the kids struggle and working so hard to be a steady presence in their lives.  /

 This  interview is part one of a two part show and around minutes 14 and 15, we touch on gymnast mental health issues that may be a little sensitive to some listeners. /

Also, in this show, the first half is the interview with Lisa Terry, and the second half is a short monologue where I share my perspectives and advice. 

 Thank you for being here. And now let's go to the show.    📍
(ocean wave)


 Hey, Lisa. Terry. Thank you for joining me this morning. It's always good to see you.  Hi, Lisa. Good to see you too. ..........  well, you know what I like to do on my shows is I want to start with.  A deep breath together.

Sounds like me. I want to just,  create a habit  of  being very conscious \  , you know, I get nervous sometimes. I don't know about you.  I'm totally nervous because I don't know what to expect.

So I'll just count to three and we'll do a big inhale. Ready? One, two, three,  and hold it  and blow out.  That feels better.  Way better.  And I think that that's one of the most important things that as we are guiding young athletes and performers that, that we get in tune with our body. Yeah. That felt really good. I agree. That felt really good. I need to do that more often. 

Well, let me just say, I know   we're going to get right into the questions, but while I have you here with me,  I just want to say, I am so grateful for you,  because  you bring a new light to,  being authentic  and,  that we all have our issues,  as coaches, as former athletes,  as former gymnasts, you and I.

  And also, this is a biggie,  I get to come and use your gym sometimes when I am coaching,  gymnasts with mental blocks and gosh, what a gift that is.  You're super welcome. I'm super grateful for our relationship.

I'm super glad we connected. I always think  it's a God thing that we connected because I've had a lot of really tough stuff I've had to deal with.   I mean, it's like, kind of like you said, you know, there's that arc of your own journey

and  especially since COVID and I'm so grateful for you because you've been there.   I can call you in a pinch and say, I don't know what to do and you can either help me or point me in the right directions.

And  I'm. I'm grateful for what you're doing, and  for the voice you're bringing  oh, thank you so much. I think that we're a team in many ways. I do too. Yeah.  So how long have you been in gymnastics,  as a gymnast? A long time. A long time. Um You don't have to say the  exact years.  Let's just say since, since the mid 70s.

Let's just say that. Yeah.  And, uh I got lots of gray hair. You're, you're a new owner of East Bay Gymnastics and I was wondering,   how did you create that and why,  I've been doing gymnastics and in gymnastics and coaching for a while,  whether it was,  doing it myself or at a high level or coaching rec and preschool for a while and babies for a while.

compulsory for a while,  optional for a while. So it's been a long arc for me,  I came to East Bay Sports Academy with a whole gaggle of kids and Cliff Parks was kind enough to take us in because we were a bunch and it was a lot and I'm so grateful to him for that.

It's just been a kind of a journey,  surviving COVID.  Really,    kind of coming in and grinding every day , and  I  was managing it for  ever. And then in,  October,, my partner, Dennis Havrilla and his wife, Monse,  approached me one day and I knew that the owner wanted to,  sell it.

But I think the vision evolved. I don't necessarily think always from the very beginning, I wanted to own a gym. It wasn't this big  arching dream I had.

I think it just happened and evolved  and  it became what it was supposed to be. I've always been about the kids  that's coaching. I'm am competitive. I was an athlete, but,  it was always about what the kids need, you know, that's what I, get from you regularly is how the kids are doing and how,  there's certain issues that you're paying attention to close attention to because you care so much and   you give them time off when they need it.

And, Yeah. It's all about their mental health and wellness. It's about,  how you can be there for them on their journey.  I think my my goal or my  arc was always about. It's not about my ego. It really is about  being on a journey with kids and and.

Gymnastics is an avenue and a tool to just help make better people and   help them along the way. And whatever role that looks like for me, gymnastics has been the gift.  That I had from a little kid that enabled me to help people along the journey.

And so much of my journey is about, offering kids what I think would have made me a better athlete. That's really what so much of my journey was, it was a healing process for me. Because I think,, there were things I needed as a kid  the adults in the room never saw.

And so then the labels all started with me when I was just a kid. And there were never any adults that just said, Hey, wait, maybe this is going on and maybe she needs this and looked at my emotions and looked at my heart. It was always just about gymnastics.

And I think that is what  my super power is, cause there's better technicians than me, there's better coaches than me. I think what I do well, is I see and meet people where they're at, and I'm able to say to a kid what's wrong.  And a kid will,

  Give me a canned answer, cause that is always a first answer.  Right. That's always the first answer. They tell me what they think I want to hear, but I, my superpower and my gift is I can say, no, what's wrong?  No, what's wrong.  And you have to be patient and unwind that so you can get to the heart of , what's wrong so you can move forward and get done what you need to get done or not me, but what they need to get done so they can get their goal and their dream, if that makes any sense.

Oh yeah. It's, you know, people say,  instead of just. Casually saying, how are you? And people say, Oh, I'm fine.  No. How are you really? Right. And that's what it sounds like you do with the kids is  no,  you can tell me more.  I'm listening. I'm here for you. , I was going to ask about your staff and your core values. And it sounds like,  open communication.

It sounds like, addressing the child's needs,   and making their health and well being first before gymnastics.   I think that That is definitely one of my core values,  but I have a whole range of athletes, right? I have preschoolers just like any gym and rec athletes and a small Excel team and you know for us We're a little  gym But  we have a pretty good sized team and I have kids that want to be really competitive and I have a kid who's trying to go junior elite and It's kind of like putting all of that together,  you know, we've talked so many times, it isn't always sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes you have to have those hard conversations ,  and then you got to make that call as the adult in the room, what the right decision is.

For me personally, I have to be able to go home. And look myself in the mirror and go, okay, I'm good. Or look myself in the mirror and go, that wasn't so good today. Now you got to circle back and say, you're sorry. , and  I absolutely have no  problem apologizing to my athletes.

Cause  an apology goes a long way  we're all on a human journey, , the kids and you, right. And you're part of that journey and we all make mistakes. And I might say something too loud or too rough, or I might be hungry.  And   get hangry. And I might holler in a moment, but also can line everybody up and say, Hey, I'm sorry, I'm hungry.

I shouldn't have hollered  like that.  I have all those reels cause it isn't sunshine and rainbows it's complicated because you're  coaching a human. And they see you as human. And I think maybe that's one of the differences that I see.

In you is because I know a lot of coaches around the country have been in the sport, like you since the 70s and,  I think that  there's this certain essence that you give off that you share that you also are human, vulnerable. And make mistakes and  I think that  that's not easy in sports because we all have an ego,  the culture is often just suck it up, push through.

And,  I think  that's something that  your staff might also feed off of is,  let's be  authentic. Let's, have that open, honest communication. I think we're all really like that.  I have a young staff.  To two of my staff members are a little bit more seasoned.

But we're all very sensitive to what the kid needs. Right. And I, I think  that is something that's really important that we've discussed that you try to do your best and, and we mentor  When we have meetings,  what does the kid need right now?

Do you need to modify the number or does the kid need to actually walk away and go home and it's meat week?  Maybe they had two finals.

That day and they came to gym and their brain is fried or they have two finals tomorrow or two tests that you know Because gymnasts are you know inherently? Perfectionist so not only are they perfectionist in gymnastics their perfectionist in They're academics as well,  And they put a lot of pressure and they're taking all the AP classes, the majority that I know.  It's the nuanced part  of sharing a human experience and being really conscious of that.  And  also giving the kid the space to understand it's okay.

Well, and that's exactly it. We are literally helping them to develop their ability to identify their emotions,  their ability to make decisions.

It's about their own health and well being, their gymnastics,  their journey.

and it's a hard thing to have emotions and be able to know when to,  when you can let the faucet go and when you have to control it and not let them get the best of you.

And it's a really, really  nuanced thing to do. And I'm no expert at it. But I think, that that's the hardest part of coaching because you're coaching a child. A child is in front of you, even a 17 year old, still a child, but we're a child doing this  amazing, intense, professional kind of sport.

Hmm.......

so let's segue. Gosh, we're getting into some good, good stuff here. Let's segue into what are the worst struggles that you see with  your gymnast or any gymnast, but maybe especially yours. We've discussed a multitude of different issues, and for those who are sensitive,, this can sound a little bit scary.

So just know,  but body image issues, eating disorders, depression, anxiety. cutting and self all of it. I've had to deal with all of it. Those are all things that I have dealt with  and like I've told you many times, if just coaching gymnastics were my job, that would be easy.

And post COVID,  COVID was really,  difficult with, mental health. I mean, it was great cause we opened up and talked about it more, but I feel that all that isolation for the kids was really,  hard. And so I've seen all of that  like suicidal ideation, ,  eating disorders, lots of body image issues,  cutting.

What are the signs, Lisa? What are the signs of them hurting so deeply inside?

That's a really good question.  First of all, they're really good at hiding it, but you can generally tell there's a shift in energy. Sometimes it manifests as you know illnesses.  Sometimes it manifests as  I don't start with blocks, you know, like, like not being able to go for things.

Sometimes it'll be able to,  physical injuries, maybe injuries. Yeah. Injuries  let's say an ankle's hurting or a wrist is hurting. And, my first thing is always, let's get it checked out. So, I send them to the doctor  physical symptoms with body aches and tweaks, that's a big red flag for me.

And that usually, there's something underneath it. And  the whole aura of the kid changes, but they hide things well, I mean, cutting and, hiding it under the wrist guards.  Yeah. And, I think that going back to how you would ask them a question,

it's real easy in the fast pace of busyness at the gym of getting numbers done and  looking at the clock and looking at your teammates and what equipment am I going to use? What does my coach expect me to do? How much time do I have left?  We have a meet coming up. You know, in the busyness of training, it's really easy to ask a kid.

Are you okay? And then they say, Yeah, I'm fine. And everybody just kind of quickly dismisses it after that, instead of having that curious mind, you know,  don't just dismiss that if you really think , you're sensing that something is up, something is happening deeper, then explore that in the kindest way.

I really care about you. I, I get a feeling there's more. Can you tell me? I think it's really hard  I usually say, do you wanna tell me about this?

That's usually my go-to line, oh, do you want to, that's, do you wanna tell me about this? Do you wanna tell me what's going on? Yeah. And I  kind of sit there and for the most part.  I've built enough trust that the kid will tell me and I've had people say to me, I've never seen anybody who spends as much time like knowing what's going on,

I mean, I deal with friend fights,  all the things that kids have to deal with,  You have to care about all the things. Yeah, that's  Probably the reason it is easier for me in that sense is because I'm a mom.

I'm a grandma  I've made all kinds of mistakes. I'm gonna steal from Liz and Justin's line,  I want to be one day better every day, one day better that that's not a lot, you know, to be one day better.

So thanks  to Liz and Justin for doing that because it's I love that. I love that motto that they live by because that isn't just, I want your toes pointed better today, or I want a better handstand today.

It's, I want you to feel better. I want you to eat better. I want you to, communicate better.   Sleep better. Smile more, laugh more, you know, all that. It's all I guess what I also feel is  when they  are hit with the question,  you know, what's going on? Do you want to tell me?

If they, and maybe they do, maybe they don't, but if they feel any sense of, oh gosh, I have to answer this now.  She wants me to be honest right now.  Uh, and if that feels like any kind of pressure, I understand that. And so sometimes if I say, I'm always here, let's check in later.  And I support you no matter what.

So when these kids, and especially the teenagers with the friend fights and  emotions and the hormones and everything is that they just feel that you're a steady presence. I think that's it. I never like. That's such a great way to put it. I think that if there's anything that's probably my mission, that's part of it, too.

I'm the constant because we have had a lot of changes and had some really rough things to deal with. And I think that, um, I'm the constant.

Yeah. I am the one that will ask them how they feel.

They don't always want to share right away. And I just kind of can give them a look and they'll tell me because at the end of the day, they also know that they're going to be able to move forward and do what they want to do and accomplish what they want to do. If sometimes they just need to get it out.

You know, and that's all it is, and  that's the good feeling is when they get it out when they feel like you're going to stay there and still care about them and love them, right, then it's a release,

. I'm still going to be here. I'm still going to support you,  no matter what's going on, and let's just get it out. And once they do that, it's like,  I didn't have to hold that in.  And I think that that's  right, but that's a hard line because yeah, it's not easy , because then, , they might tell you something  that they trust you in that moment. 

And then they tell you something that you.   You have to  pass on. /

(ocean wave)

/ Hey friends, that was just half of the conversation. Part two comes out next week and Lisa Terry talks about the immense responsibility when a new coach at the gym created incredible stress, fear, and anxiety in the gymnasts and everyone was afraid.   Listen in, especially for the strategies and messages about healing and caring for kids who've been hurt. 

  📍 // (bell)

And here is the highlight from our sponsor, Zen Tiger Mind, mental training and mental health equipment and products for young developing children and for athletes to help them perform better.  The word for this week is autonomy, the right or condition of self government.  When young athletes feel pressured, confused, and scared, they need autonomy to be able to make decisions for themselves.  And that comes when we support them and give them the opportunity to make decisions and make choices. So let's practice autonomy each day./ 

  📍 (ocean wave) 
And now for your consideration,  Lisa Terry is not afraid of the difficult conversations and truly being a compassionate person with her gymnast during practice. I admire that. And in the world of coaching. We need more of that. Slow down to address the emotions of gymnasts and make adjustments according to their mental and emotional state.

I know you are paying attention to a number of kids at one time, but sometimes a child just needs a pause for 30 seconds. And that is when the gymnast is right. should have autonomy in making a decision about what they can and can't do when they are struggling.  I know coaches are not trained to be psychologists or therapists, and it should not feel like you have to do that job.

But if you are closed off and do not accept the kid's emotions are important to talk about. And if you are not prepared to listen and help your gymnast in some small way to reduce their stress.  , then you're disregarding a vital aspect of coaching and you're also alienating a child when they need your patience and kindness.

We cannot expect them to stuff down their feelings in the midst of being upset, scared or crying in order to do a skill or prepare for a meet.  I know you love gymnastics and as coaches, we are role models teaching gymnasts, especially those with perfectionist tendencies to step away for five minutes or 15 minutes is a good thing.

Finding ways to release built up stress and get the support they need is key. Is vital. Whether it's with a teammate, a coach, a parent, or a friend, every athlete needs a safe place to let go of the work in training and take time to breathe and giggle and feel connected to a loved one. They need to nurture their mind and spirit because gymnastics is hard. 

A few years ago, I took a wonderful course and got certified in mental health first aid. It was incredible.   Coaches learn to notice the early signs of mental health issues like depression, anxiety, substance abuse, or just feeling overwhelmed.  You don't need to be a therapist.

You just learn the signs. You'll notice if a child or teen is. isolating themselves, being irritable or angry, or even losing interest in activities or foods they usually like. 

But the first step is to set your intentions each day to see your athletes as humans first. Because kids get emotional, they get lonely, they feel hopeless and afraid, and sometimes never good enough.   Here's some clarity for you. When a kid is getting emotional in the gym, one, they are distracted by their emotions. And two, their nervous system is dysregulated, basically out of whack. And it's not safe to do gymnastics in that state. It is up to the adults to give them the space to identify and process their emotions and teach them simple ways to alleviate the stress. 

You don't have to be a psychologist. You don't have to be a therapist. Kids just need to be seen and heard and validated. And honestly, and I mean honestly. That's your superpower to do just that./ 

📍 (bell)

  If you are a coach and you have felt uncomfortable with your athletes when they are struggling and they are emotional, I get it. 

I suggest you reflect on that moment. Make time to be peaceful with yourself and reflect on your own discomfort. Why are you so uncomfortable? Is talking about emotions not a part of your life? Do you have past emotions or events that maybe you never processed? Do you need some tools and practice to support yourself and your athletes in more positive ways? 

Look,  the truth is, everyone needs help when working with kids. So seek the support you need. That's not only right, but it's the healthiest choice for you and for the kids you coach./

📍  (ocean wave / music) 

   Well, that's the show. I'm Lisa Mitchell. I'm honored you chose to listen in.  Check the show notes for information. Share your thoughts in the comments. Give us a positive rating if you enjoyed it and please subscribe.  Okay, my friends. This is your journey to grow and learn and guide yourself to your own transformation.

I am sending you good vibes, deep breaths, and peace.