The Extra
The Extra is a podcast hosted by Crosspoint Christian Church in Conyers, Georgia. Senior Minister, Curtis Zehner, and his friend, Ken Pierce, talk through each week's sermon unpacking the extra material that didn't make the cut for the weekend message. Curtis' and Ken's conversational and relaxed style lend itself to listeners of all ages and spiritual maturities.
The Extra
Genesis pt. 4 | Joseph & The Good Life
Is the "good life" something we should chase relentlessly, or can it be found through a deeper spiritual connection? We reflect on our tendency to follow someone or something in our pursuit of happiness and consider how moderation, honesty, and accuracy play crucial roles in setting our goals. Our journey touches on the elements of knowledge, security, and connection as key components of a fulfilling life, while also pondering the importance of education, meaningful employment, and family bonds as pillars of our existence.
Check out more at www.CrosspointConyers.com
Today on the Extra Ken Pierce and I talk about the meaning of the good life. What is it? Welcome to the Extra Ken. What is the good life?
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 1:We're all chasing it. That is very true, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's part of it. We're all chasing it. Should we chase it or as?
Speaker 1:you say is Jesus enough? Okay, that's a, so should we chase it. Or, as you say is Jesus enough, okay, so should we chase it. It depends on what you're chasing. I was recently. I was reading a book you ever heard of John Mark Comer. No, he wrote this book called Practicing the Way. I haven't read the whole thing. In fact I was sitting in the bookstore reading it, so I didn't actually buy it. You were stealing it. I was thinking about buying it. Is that stealing if you read the book in the bookstore?
Speaker 2:It's not, because that's what Faith does, okay. Yeah. She's an amazing reader. I don't know how many words a minute she can read, but she's like I used to do that.
Speaker 1:A lot more than me.
Speaker 2:she can read so much more than me, like my eyes just droop and I can't do it yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't. Yeah. Reading's not my forte, but a lot of my job depends on how much I read, so I try my hardest.
Speaker 2:And I picked the wrong career too, because I'm constantly reading notes and things like that. Yeah, yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 1:So, okay, I'm reading the introduction to this book, thinking about buying it. Okay, spo, thinking about buying it. Okay, spoiler alert, I didn't buy it, I did not, uh. But in the intro he he's um, you know, he's. He's saying we're all practicing some kind of way you know, we all think, especially in western culture, that we're, we're all individuals yeah right, right we're.
Speaker 1:I'm doing my own path and I think you can see where that's gotten america, just humanity in general. But our context, you know, we, we, uh, yeah, we have a lot of different individualities that we think are unique to ourselves and, um, we even go so far as to create things that don't exist, to try and be individualistic. And what? What the author, john mark comer? What he was getting at is we're all following somebody or something. The real question is, who is it are you following and what are you being turned into? So your question was should we chase after the good life or should we just allow jesus to be enough? I think yes, we chase after the good life. It just depends on what good life you're chasing after.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, always it depends, like we said with substances a few weeks ago. You know a lot of drugs that are used for recreation now are used medicinally at the beginning of you know, when surgery you know got to be a thing and the germ theory of disease you know developed and all that stuff. A drug is good in certain amounts. Water is good in certain amounts. It is really bad in other amounts and at the wrong time and at the wrong place and all that it's all about that you know everything in moderation.
Speaker 2:You have to be smart and selective and, as I say, honest and accurate. I tell my people in my office I say you have to be honest and accurate with yourself. What are you going after and what do you want? How are you going to get there? Do you actually want to do the thing you're saying you want to do? Do you really want to run your own business? Do you really Think about it? No, I just want an easier job and more money and I figured running my own business was the way to do it. No, it's not the way to do that. So they have to have. They have to be honest with themselves, with their abilities and accurate about what they want and chasing this good life. Quote.
Speaker 1:Quote had to be the same thing honest and accurate yeah, the good life is defined in so many different ways, and you experience that in your context at work all the time. Is it so much that the the ways to get the good life are, so you know, so different for each individual, or is it that everybody's chasing the same thing and they're doing it a different way?
Speaker 2:I honestly think there's not that many ways to get a good life. Yeah. I really don't. I think that you should be educated up to your intelligence level Okay, appropriately employed, not over-under-employed. And I would say just for me in my personal life be married and have kids.
Speaker 1:Okay, so those are three categories. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm wondering, is there an underlying theme for all of those? So, like in the sermon, I talked about how there's some statistics that you know 89% of Americans think that owning a house is necessary for the good life, for a happy marriage. Having a second car, having a vacation home going to different countries, having a second car, having a vacation home going to different countries. So are you suggesting then, let's say, education is a category. Knowledge of the world, knowledge Security, having a job, having an income of some kind.
Speaker 2:Security that appropriately challenges you.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I can expound on that.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, but Connection, social connections, Social connections. Okay, connection is the opposite of addiction, gotcha, if you will. Okay. It will keep you completely grounded, morally, emotionally, all those things, because I'm outsourcing a lot of stuff to faith. She's outsourcing a lot of stuff to me. I can't go off the rails because I have one faith and then three kids, with one on the way. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I have to keep it together, whatever that is. Yeah, because, because, because I've invested time, energy and resources now into the future. Okay, my kids and my relationship with faith represent me in the future. Yep. I can't let it go, I can't squander it Right. They're too precious Right. So that's the social connection, is really what I'm saying. Marriage and kids.
Speaker 1:Yes, is there a category of entertainment Like how you keep yourself?
Speaker 2:busy. That's a good question. In psychology there's a psychological theory that entertainment only came about because we know we're finite, limited beings and we have to distract ourselves from that. And it gets you thinking about possibilities and you know culture and it extends you a little bit. Yeah, like before we started recording we were talking about Christopher Nolan as a director. I think he's amazing because he makes you think. Interstellar makes you think, yeah, big, big ideas. It gets you out of your body. You know yeah.
Speaker 2:So stuff like that. Okay, so there could be an entertainment.
Speaker 1:So we've got these categories of the good life. That are good things in life, sure, yeah, but we're from a biblical standpoint. When I say good life, like I'm not instructing you, ken, to stop caring about making a good wage so that you can take care of your family. Those are good and necessary things. Yeah Right, the biblical perspective of what good life is. Essentially there's one category, and that is relationship with God. Okay, the presence of God in your life, and that presence starts in the garden scene in the first chapters of the Bible, and then we see it all throughout scripture, this past weekend, specifically in the life of Joseph, and even what Jesus taught us in the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes about. You know, how good is life for those who fill in the blank right? And it's usually things that are counterintuitive to the categories that you and I just named, like how good is life for those who actually don't have the economic means to take care of their family and are having to rely on somebody else?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was nothing necessarily biblical about what I said. I gave the outline of a psychologically good life and an emotionally stable life.
Speaker 1:But I'm not suggesting that those things are bad things to pursue. No, no, and I don't think the Bible would say that either.
Speaker 2:No, they don't oppose the Bible, they're just not necessarily biblical. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. And so if we are spiritual beings who are chasing after the things of our spiritual creator, well then we should be focusing on what that spiritual creator tells us to do Right. And we should be focusing on what that spiritual creator tells us to do. And the ultimate life that any of us could live both now, in this temporary world, and eternally because there is life after death the greatest thing we could live for is to live in the presence of God, and that's just good enough. That should be good enough for us, no matter what stage of life you're in, no matter what situation you're in. I think you know.
Speaker 1:We looked at the life of Joseph and that, specifically when he was a slave in the house of his master in Egypt, god was with him, but his circumstance didn't change the fact that he was living in somebody else's house. He didn't have his own property. He was still a slave, oppressed by a foreign master. He had no way to change his future, so he had no power to do anything about where he was. But it's almost like thrown in as a consolation prize, like it. Just that little. That little sentence in scripture makes it seem almost really trivial how God says in Genesis. Well, god doesn't say it, but the author writes it. In Genesis, chapter 39, verse two, the Lord was with Joseph so that he prospered, and he lived in the house of his Egyptian master. Like that's it, it doesn't tell us exactly what God did. All it says is that, essentially, the blessing of God's presence in Joseph's life started overflowing into the house, so that everything that happened under Potiphar's roof prospered.
Speaker 2:And doesn't that sum up what all these flawed characters in the Bible are doing? They're trying to get if they're flawed and they're trying to move toward God. They want that sentence, they want the blessing, they want whatever is going to come with it.
Speaker 1:That's what I want.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that's what all of us should aspire to want. Right, I want that verse to say that of me. The Lord was with Curtis.
Speaker 2:That sounds great. So that he prospered yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then we get on like what does prospered mean? Well, I can tell you what it doesn't mean. Right, that Joseph's circumstances didn't change. He was still a slave. I think that this story especially speaks out against the idea of prosperity gospel that you know, if you just believe in Jesus, or if you give to the church, then you will receive God's abundance. I think of, like, who's that dude out in Texas that's on TV.
Speaker 2:Osteen.
Speaker 1:Osteen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he used to be my favorite.
Speaker 1:But he's preaching the wrong gospel. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's when I didn't. That's when I knew I was about to say. That's when I didn't know anything.
Speaker 1:That's when I knew less than I do now. Right Osteen, you know I'll never, forget hearing him say like that parking space. When you get that front row parking space, that's God's blessing. And maybe I'm not quoting it correctly, but that was the sentiment behind what he was saying. Like for those of you who are getting that front row parking space, which is totally random, yeah.
Speaker 1:Those of you who are getting that front row parking space, which is totally random. Yeah, there's no rhyme or rhythm to why there's an open parking space up front when you go to the grocery store. You're lucky if that's open, but to say that that's God's favor on you because you're going to church. Yeah. Or because you're believing in Jesus, or you sent me money, yeah. Or because you put money in the offering, or you sent me money, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or because you put money in the offering plate right, Most likely because you sent me money.
Speaker 1:Prosperity gospel is just. That's not the gospel. That's not what Jesus teaches us. In fact, jesus, I feel like I'd quote Matthew 5 more than anything, but it's because it's, first of all, my favorite.
Speaker 1:I've been studying it for over a year the whole Sermon on the Mount, so it's very fresh on my mind and it's very applicable to all these things. It's Jesus's stump speech, essentially, so this is what he taught to people everywhere he went. In Matthew, chapter five, he says the Lord sends the rain on both the wicked and the righteous. In other words, you don't believe in God, it's still going to rain and your crops are still going to get the water that it needs so that life can be sustained for you. Are you a righteous person? You're going to get the same rain that your unrighteous neighbor is getting on that day when it rains, so that your crops can have God are going to have a better life, or a more prosperous like financial life than your neighbor next to you who doesn't believe in God. It's just not there. And so what is the good life, then, that we're chasing after? The difference between me and my unrighteous neighbor, like according to Jesus, is his presence with me, the presence of the divine eternal creator with me Presence, yeah.
Speaker 1:Which was the garden scene. So good life and garden life to me are synonymous in scripture.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because the garden life was Adam and Eve together. The food came from the ground. They had all these trees and plants to eat from, in the garden and the presence of God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's similar to what I outlined too. The education and the employment aspect of what I was saying was taken care of in the garden and they had social connection with each other. She was a helpmate.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So everything was taken care of.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Both in a very human way and the spiritual way and the divine way.
Speaker 1:And who took care of those things? Yeah, god did. Yeah, yeah, god did, because he created us to have those needs the need of security, the need of relationship. What was the other one? The need of a win-win and yeah, they need yes intellect, you would say usefulness, intellect and social connections on us and God created us to have those needs and, as a good creator, he also provided the solution for those needs, the satisfaction of those needs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, A good example from one of my people and I'm not giving away anything here. I'm not committing any counselor.
Speaker 1:What is it called If you're a doctor? Counselor?
Speaker 2:crimes or anything.
Speaker 1:Is that called HIPAA? Oh, that's medical.
Speaker 2:Well, HIPAA can do the same thing. I deal with that too, so this lady has a boyfriend who's in prison and I said how did you meet this guy? And she said I met him through a friend and he would hang out with him at a bar. I said have you ever been to church? Just simple as that. Have you ever been to church? She's like I used to go, but I stopped going. I'm like you should try to go to church. I'm not supposed to do that.
Speaker 1:You're not supposed to say you should go to church?
Speaker 2:I'm not supposed to say you should do this. Ah but she is one of the nicest people that is around the worst crowd. Hmm. And she has no idea how she got where she is. And I said just pick a church. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Literally any church and go, and then you'll see, okay, this church is for me or not, and then you may go to another one, whatever. But try meeting people that go to church and see what happens. I don't know if she's done it yet, because that was last month and I just see her once a month, but that was my. Your boyfriend is in prison right now. How does that sound when I say that to you and she's like and she just sank, you know, and I did. I was like I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I just want you to know where you're at in life. You know you could do this and I was like you could do the same to me, you know, by saying my weight out loud or something like that. You could, you could. You know you could make me feel bad, all you want to.
Speaker 2:But I said your boyfriend is in prison, and how long? How long has it been? Over a year, blah, blah, blah. And you're out here working, trying to support your kids and all this stuff. She wants what everybody else wants. She wants social connection with good people that want the best for her. She has a boyfriend in prison and she's going about it the wrong way To your point. There are different ways to go about it, but there's only a few good ways. There's only a few good and straight paths to that life and ultimately, there's only one way, and that's what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Right, Ultimately, there's only one way. Oh, of course. Yeah, I'm just thinking through now like so presence of God equals garden life. Yeah, yeah so presence of God equals garden life, good life, so maybe there's more than one way to experience the presence of God.
Speaker 2:What you're suggesting is that a change of relationships with the people around you might actually change her experience with the presence of God. At no point, right, really change her experience with the presence of God. At no point, right, at no point has she ever mentioned church religion, anything like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wasn't. I'm saying the type you and ultimately settled down into you need to be around, people that might go to church. Don't just go to church. Don't go to church, I'm not telling, I obviously can't tell you to do that, of course, but the type of people that might go to church, those are your types of people. Given what you told me about your past, you know she used to make good grades. She used to. You know she, she got sidetracked right before she went to college.
Speaker 2:You know, one of those right before she went to college. You know, one of those, Like you, have a huge gulf between what you could be and who you are. Yeah. So let's narrow that gulf.
Speaker 1:Well, I like the idea of what you're suggesting to that person is to change who you relate to.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And relating to people who know the presence of God and who experience God's presence in their life is a great way to change. You know the outcome, circumstance or just the experience of the good life.
Speaker 2:I know it because it happened to me. Yeah. Faith is that person for me. Yeah, yeah, faith is that person for me. Yeah. Okay. She's extremely knowledgeable about the Bible, church attendance. Her whole life grew up steeped in the Bible and Christianity and her relationship with God. I did not. I went to church every single Sunday. That doesn't mean anything. You're right about that. I'm here to tell you, I promise you guys listening, it doesn't mean anything. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You have to live it. She lived it, yeah, and I allowed myself to be in a relationship with Faith, who is A. She's very persuasive, okay, she knows how to state her case. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
Speaker 2:She knows how to state her case, trained by a lawyer, raised by a, and she's very good at answering my questions honestly and without a snicker or a judgment. She's not offended by the questions because I'm not asking them to be offensive, I just don't know. So if you allow yourself to be influenced by somebody like that, somebody that's knowledgeable, grew up in the faith, grew up really living it, who knows what can happen? My whole life changed. That's what can happen.
Speaker 1:We were talking about before we hit record today, about, like what does it mean to live in light of the scripture, you know, and the more that we learn about it, the more we're around people and allow it to absorb into our life. I think that that is kind of the answer to the question like are we allowing the scripture to absorb into us?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it doesn't always mean reading the Bible constantly, right, although I would definitely suggest reading the Bible if you're not already, but being around people who do know the Bible and allowing the truth of what they say to sink into your life, and just the general experience of thinking biblically. So I'm a preaching major in college. When I was in college and my preaching professor used to tell us think homiletically or don't think at all. Homiletics is the study of public speaking essentially, you know he was saying of preaching more specifically, and so he would always say you know, think homiletically or don't think at all. In other words, every moment of your life could be turned into a sermon, everything you do. And so if you're not thinking with a homiletic mindset, then maybe you're not cut out to be a preacher.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a professor would say that he would say that, yes, but he's right, and also it applies to just your Christian life in general. Think biblically or don't think at all. Yeah, you know. That's a good way to put it. Maybe you're not really thinking clearly if you're not thinking biblically, Mm-hmm, you know from, I think from yeah. So I digress a little bit there. Sorry, I take us maybe a little bit off track, but you're my example was talking about.
Speaker 2:You don't have to necessarily be doing the thing to be influenced or affected by it. Right? If you think really, really minutely and really hard on something, it will change you, because sometimes your brain doesn't know whether you're doing the thing or not. You can fool your brain. It's simply called rehearsal. In sports psychology it's called rehearsal. Okay, I'm going to think and go through the motions of, say, a golf swing or a good tennis backhand and your brain gets the reward whether you actually hit a tennis ball or not. Huh, okay.
Speaker 1:That's very true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, rehearsal and deep. It's also known as deep visualization. Okay, look at a picture of something and then imagine yourself stepping into the picture and becoming Tiger Woods or becoming Bubba Watson or becoming Roger Federer, whoever. I'm kind of aging myself or dating myself, so you deeply visualize biblical thinking and the Beatitudes and all these things that you learn in the Bible and it will eventually get into your bones, it will get into your muscles and it will start to change maybe your language, maybe where you go after work, maybe the TV show you watch. You know something?
Speaker 1:Could we also say instead of deep visualization, could we say meditate?
Speaker 2:Yeah or prayer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't mean Eastern pantheistic. Yeah, or prayer yeah, and I don't mean Eastern pantheistic, no, we don't mean yeah.
Speaker 2:You don't have to have a mantra or anything like that, it's you. Meditate on this one subject and all of its aspects as much as you can think about, because people rarely think deeply about things they really do yeah, you don't have time, and if you can muster all that brain power on something your brain's very powerful and it's capable of a lot yeah, you can really make something a part of you so.
Speaker 1:So here's Psalm, chapter 1, beginning in verse 1. Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or take seat in the company of mockers, but whose delight is in the law of the Lord and who meditates on his law day and night, on his law day and night. That person is like a tree planted by streams of water which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he do, whatever they do, prospers. Blessed is he who meditates on the law of the lord day and night, who has that deep visualization yeah right, I picture myself, I do that all the.
Speaker 1:I do that like fake golf swing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dry, swinging a baseball bat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I do that all the time Dry firing a gun that helps. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So just think about those little motions that you might go through, a physical motion and you can get it into your body Right, get it under your hands, as they say.
Speaker 1:When the moment comes that you'll be ready to hit the golf ball or to swing the bat, or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you're not going to swing it perfect every single time. Sometimes you're going to shank it, sometimes you're going to pull that baseball all the way into left field. You know Well, if you're a righty you're going to do that, but I think that's what Psalm 1 is getting at is.
Speaker 1:It's not about doing everything perfect, right, right. It's not about making sure that you have. Especially in the era of Jesus, in the new covenant, when we are free from the burden of the law, the law still means something for us. It's God's code, it's his moral code for us, right? It's his guidelines for all of us. And Psalm 1 says blessed is the one who meditates on that law day and night. You are like a person who is planted by streams of water. You're like a tree that's planted by. Here's some more visualization. Okay, I'm going to say it again, and then you tell me what that sounds like. So imagine, put your imagination cap on people.
Speaker 1:Right, sounds like. So imagine put your imagination cap on people, right? You're like a tree planted by streams of water, whose leaves never fall off and whose fruit is always good in every season. Yeah, but what biblical image does that sound like?
Speaker 2:sounds like the garden exactly.
Speaker 1:It sounds like the the tree of life in the garden of eden and that stream is constantly feeding that tree yeah the root system of the tree yeah so you're never separated from the source of goodness yeah so maybe it's not about being perfect in every little thing. It's about meditating on who God is and what he'svetail nicely that you can use to one can explain the other.
Speaker 2:But if you meditate on the word of God day and night it will overflow, eventually Overflowing in this case, in the case of the golf swing. You will improve your golf swing. The meditation will overflow and run out of your hands into the club through the ball.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It just will.
Speaker 1:And in Joseph's case, if you want to take it all the way back full circle to Joseph, it was an overflow of God's presence into the house of his master. The very person who was oppressing him was the person who was experiencing the blessing of God, because it was overflowing out of Joseph. Jesus teaches love your neighbor, love your enemy, even Pray for your enemies. Here's Matthew 5 again. Yeah, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, that was certainly Joseph's enemy, but his presence and connection with God was an overflowing to benefit even the enemies in his life. And I'll tell you, the good life is simply knowing that God is with you wherever you are in life. You can chase after a lot of different things in this world and you can try and define the good life by your own terms and you can even try and be like the farmers you know if you will another biblical image here the farmer who tries to create good life on his own terms and fortifies himself and his own city and, you know, builds up.
Speaker 1:Or you can act like the shepherd who is like in Psalm 1, the shepherd who you know, the Lord is called the shepherd in the Psalms, Psalm 23,. The Lord is my shepherd. Jesus is the good shepherd. Be like Jesus to the best of your ability and the way that we do that. Let's round it out here Be like Jesus to the best of your ability and the way that we do that. Let's round it out here.
Speaker 1:Be like Jesus. Just be Jesus. End of podcast. Am I right? Yeah, yeah, no man. You become like Jesus by meditating on the law of God, on the very word of God. I'm convinced that Jesus did that Like he was divine. But Jesus knew his Bible and we talked about that on week one of this year, this calendar year, in the sermon, when we talk about everything from A to Z points to Jesus. Jesus knew the scriptures. He had certainly meditated a long time on what God had written down for humanity, and we're called to do the exact same thing Be present with God. Good enough, good. It's just an ongoing conversation, like there's no way to put a period on what we've talked about today, yeah.
Speaker 1:Except to say just keep meditating on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we got to end sometime.
Speaker 1:We got to end sometime. I'm so glad that you joined us today. If today's podcast was beneficial for you in any way, would you do us a favor and just share it with somebody, send it in a text message or shoot somebody an email, I don't know? Just say, hey, check out this podcast. I heard something that sparked my mind to think about Jesus in a new way today, and maybe it'll do that for somebody else. Thanks for listening to the Extra. It's Ken and Curtis. We'll see you next week. We're starting Exodus next week at church. It's going to be a good time. Moving on to Moses Moses, moses. All right, we'll save that for later. Signing off.
Speaker 2:Signing off. Next time. See ya next time see ya.