The Extra
The Extra is a podcast hosted by Crosspoint Christian Church in Conyers, Georgia. Senior Minister, Curtis Zehner, and his friend, Ken Pierce, talk through each week's sermon unpacking the extra material that didn't make the cut for the weekend message. Curtis' and Ken's conversational and relaxed style lend itself to listeners of all ages and spiritual maturities.
The Extra
Exodus pt. 3 | Passover & Pass Through
The journey of faith takes on new depth as we explore the connections between Passover and baptism. In this episode, we dive into the significance of the Passover lamb in Exodus and how it relates to Jesus, the ultimate sacrifice for humankind. You'll learn how these biblical themes intertwine, revealing the beautiful narrative of redemption and new life through baptism.
Check out more at www.CrosspointConyers.com
Today on the podcast, we're going to talk about the Passover and passing through the water, the book of Exodus. Welcome to the Extra. I'm a little hyper today, ken. Yeah, a little hyper.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 1:I don't know. We were laughing before we hit record.
Speaker 2:That was hilarious. We're punching it. Yeah, we need a boxing ring announcer to do the intro.
Speaker 1:Yes, can you imagine? What's his name?
Speaker 2:There's Bruce Buffer for boxing, and then Michael. Buffer for. No, there's Michael Buffer for boxing and Bruce Buffer is MMA. Let's get ready to rumble. Yeah, Bruce Buffer is. He gets in their face and he's like reigning defending like that, and he's way better to me than.
Speaker 1:Bruce Buffer is yeah than Michael Buffer to me, Even though he's classic Bruce Buffer is just.
Speaker 2:he's so animated with it. I love it. He's not professional, Not like his brother.
Speaker 1:Well, man, I'm glad we got some good energy today. It was a great Sunday. I've been saying that a lot lately, man. I just we've been seeing a lot of really cool things. We had three baptisms on Sunday.
Speaker 2:That's good, is that usually if you're going to have multiple baptisms? It seems like it's usually three.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know, have you had four? I don't know. I don't think I've ever thought of it that way.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think like is that the most successful Sunday?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, great question. I'd have to go back in the record books. We actually keep a book in the office that has the names of every person who's been baptized at Crosspoint in the last 20 years and the date and everything. And the date, yeah, and who did the baptizing. That's cool. Yeah, it is pretty cool. It's fun to go back and look through the records. I like. I like archival stuff like that. Yeah, I wish it was digitized. In fact, we're working on digitizing it okay, but it's just on a little notebook.
Speaker 1:Yeah, goes back 20 years.
Speaker 2:Almost 550 names in that book and is it one of those black and white?
Speaker 1:ones. Um. No, it's not, I know what you're talking about. No, it's just a small like, uh, almost like an address book. No, it's not, I know what you're talking about. No, it's just a small, almost like an address book, but it's just real small with blank pages. It's really neat. I just love what we witnessed on Sunday, especially after talking about baptism in the sermon. It kind of all comes together.
Speaker 1:Listen, I wish I was smart enough to plan this stuff, and maybe some people think I do. I hate to pull the curtain away and show who's actually sitting behind running the wizard here. You wish you were a puppet master, I wish, but I'm not. But when I wrote this sermon, which is usually I'm usually about a week to a week and a half out from any given sermon in my writing process Okay, and I was just, you know I'm praying over it and I'm thinking about what we're going to do and I just had this idea. I was like what if we just turn this into like Baptism Sunday? Right, and we just called it Baptism Sunday? Well, the thought never really materialized and we get busy and that would require some promotional things and I just—it was more headache.
Speaker 2:really Do you think it puts pressure on that Sunday?
Speaker 1:I think it would. There's a lot of churches that do it that way. We put an emphasis on baptism, we put an emphasis on the immediacy of baptism because the Bible puts an emphasis on it. Okay, we could talk about that another time. But man, so I'm writing this sermon like passing through the water and baptism, and man, this should just be a baptism Sunday. Well, it never materialized. And here we go on Sunday that Kurt had planned a communion thought that centered around baptism and then prepped the church, that we had three baptisms already planned that morning, and then I preached this and then we witnessed the baptisms. And it's just like God made it a baptism Sunday. Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'll take care of that for you, yeah.
Speaker 1:Just like a small little thought that was in my head while preparing. That happens. Little thought that was in my head while preparing. That happens a lot more often than I say out loud. Okay, just that God just ties everything together, that the Holy Spirit really is working in the hearts of people and in my heart because he's prepping me and prompting me to preach sermons, whether I know it or not, that fall in line with what people are wrestling with, like what they're meditating on in their private lives, and so that fruit is not my fruit, that's fruit of the one who is divine. So I just thought that was kind of cool. Yeah, I'd like to share that.
Speaker 2:It's cool to see the heart, mind and action lining up and that's what's possible, you know, and you're going into it full of faith, obviously.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you are, your heart's in the right spot, your mind's in the right spot, prepared, and you put action to it by preaching. You know certain words, but it's cool to see, uh, it's cool to see when things line up. Yeah, feeling it. That's what a live performer would call.
Speaker 1:I'm feeling it it is. It feels kind of like playing music exactly you know, having done both, or like playing basketball. I'll never forget yeah, faith, your wife probably remembers this it's being in the zone. I was in the zone we were playing a school down in Loganville and I went nine Well, I wasn't nine for nine, but I hit nine threes in one game One time in that game I came off of a screen.
Speaker 1:My cousin set the screen I'll never forget because of who it was and I hit my face on his shoulder, yeah, but I had the ball and so my eyes were closed and I just threw the ball toward the rim and it went in the hoop like that's in the zone. Man, that's what it feels like sometimes.
Speaker 2:You just yeah doing without thinking yeah yeah, if you're, if you're thinking about your shot it's, you're done.
Speaker 1:you do the work in the gym, so you don't have to think about the shot. Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2:And sometimes it's the same as going to church and being in the praise band or something like that. If your heart is prepared and open and your mind is in the right spot, things will happen and you really don't have to think about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very similar, it is and and it's uh, it's allowing god to be the thing that fills your heart, allowing god to do the work in you and so you gotta, you gotta be in the word, you gotta, you gotta know it, you gotta study it, man, you gotta be in prayer, you gotta be in communion with god.
Speaker 1:That's huge, just being in communion with jesus, and you don't have to be a preacher to do that, to be in the zone or whatever. We're beating that analogy to death, but that's a lesson for all of us Be in communion with Jesus every day, because Jesus is the Passover lamb. Great segue, great segue, great segue. That was a terrible. I feel like I probably should have done like this here. Let's try this, ken. Let's talk about how Jesus is the Passover lamb. Let's talk. Does that sound good? It was great to be in Exodus and chapter 12 and talking about the Passover in Egypt. Have you ever done a study on the Passover before?
Speaker 2:No, but this message on Sunday struck me for the first time because, for the first time probably ever, I'm listening to sermons with a purpose. Okay, yeah. I have. I have this conversation that we're going to have, but I also have faith that likes to talk about what was said on Sunday. I also have Ron that likes to talk about it. So I have all these different avenues to get the thoughts out where I didn't before.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But the one, one big thing that struck me on Sunday when I listened to the sermon was the similarities between the Passover and if you receive Jesus into your heart, that the Spirit will come into your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the parallels between the Passover and then what we see Jesus do during Passover time in.
Speaker 1:Jerusalem. You just can't make this stuff up. Man Right Like God, clearly has a plan and it's playing out perfectly in Jerusalem in that first century. So just to briefly put it, the Passover was in Exodus. Moses instructed the people, per God's instructions, to slaughter a one-year-old male lamb without blemish. It had to be a perfect lamb and then they were going to eat that. They had to prepare it in a certain way and eat all the meat in one night. It was kind of crazy. It was like an awesome feast they had to have.
Speaker 1:But there was a solemnness to this feast, because on your doorpost was the blood of the lamb.
Speaker 1:So the entry and exit point of your house was covered by the blood of this lamb that you are consuming on the inside of the house, and that blood was the marker of Yahweh's people.
Speaker 1:And so when Yahweh came through the land of Egypt to claim the lives of all the firstborn in the land, everyone is susceptible to that wrath. No one's off the hook here. He's coming to punish the Egyptians, but we get the idea that even the Israelites cannot escape the wrath of God unless they've done this act that God has instructed them to do Paint the blood of the lamb over your doorframe. And so we fast forward to the New Testament. And so we fast forward to the New Testament, and like in John, chapter 1, verse 29, when John the Baptist sees Jesus coming toward the waters of the Jordan River and he exclaims look, there is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, the Lamb in Exodus saved them from the punishment that God was bringing, saved them from death, and Jesus the lamb is coming now to save us from death as well.
Speaker 2:In a grand, what would you call it on a grand scale? Death on a grand scale, you might say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, whereas each individual household had to have their own lamb you mean. Yeah, but now there is one lamb that counts For everybody, for all of human history.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, not just those living, those to come. Yeah, it's in a way in counseling you talk about okay, what can we do now to set us up for a good future? It's the same thing where it's grand, bold action now to set you up for the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The big future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the uh. That's where our storyline begins.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I had a crazy technical glitch on Sunday so I didn't get to draw the actual like timeline that I was going to draw on the screen for the people in the room. But that's where our timeline begins with. God is at the Passover. So the Israelites started at the Passover, and they then were commissioned into new life when they went through the waters of the Red Sea. Jesus' ministry begins by going through the water and ends with him as the Passover lamb hanging on the cross, and then our story picks up where Jesus left off at the Passover, with Jesus on the cross, and we get commissioned into new life when we pass through the waters of baptism.
Speaker 1:So it's like this inverse that happens. It starts here, it inverts with Jesus and it re-inverts with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's like humans have the same, we have the same kind of timeline of things, but when God came in he inverted the whole thing.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And did it in a way that makes it possible for everyone to know Jesus and to receive salvation through him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, turning everything upside down in a way. I love when you can look back in history and find moments of that Like everything was one way until this guy came along or this lady came along, and now this is how we do things and who's to say it might not happen again but Jesus being the one perfect version of that and God being the perfect version of that where, yes, you've been living this way, not just doing something this way, but living this way. Now you're going to live a different way.
Speaker 1:You know Absolutely, and so we see even at the end of the biblical story. So Exodus is towards the beginning of the biblical narrative. Jesus is that kind of. It might not be in the middle of the Bible, but it's like the center point of the narrative. Yeah, and then the back half of the Bible. Well, I keep saying halves. If you actually looked at it it's not divided up properly like that. But what we see in Revelation is the end of time, the end of all creation, and in Revelation, where is it?
Speaker 1:It's in Revelation chapter. I had it open and then I closed it. Revelation 5, John is seeing this vision of the throne room of heaven. And there is. Let me just start. I'll start in verse 1. Revelation 5, verse 1. Then I saw in the right hand of him, who sat on the throne, a scroll with writing on both sides and it was sealed with seven seals, and I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice who is worthy to break the seals and open the scrolls. Open the scroll. It's not multiple scrolls, it's one scroll with seven seals. Verse 3, but no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside of it. This is like a super holy moment, Like what is?
Speaker 1:inside this scroll Right. Why is it sealed seven times? Why can nobody open it? Verse four, john says. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me do not weep.
Speaker 1:See, the lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals. Okay, the lion of the tribe of Judah, you have a mental picture here. Yes, the lion, like lions, are fierce, they're hunters yeah, they're hunters, and they're protective right of their pride. And so this lion of the tribe of Judah, the root, what did it say? The root of David? These are all biblical themes.
Speaker 1:Like we're at the end of the Bible now, we should be, as Bible scholars, remembering these pictures from earlier in the scripture, verse six. So this is what John sees. The elder says here comes the lion. And John says then I saw a lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Speaker 1:He went back and took the scroll from the right hand of him, who sat on the throne, and when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls of incense, which are the prayers of God's people and they sang a new song. You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slain and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. I could keep going, but I think that's probably enough to get the picture and the end of time, that lamb that was slain is going to be the one who's worthy to usher in the end. Right, he is the Lord over all things. He is like we talked about last week. I am Right, he was in the beginning, he was in the middle part and he's there at the end.
Speaker 2:But isn't it?
Speaker 1:just like I just want to sit on it for a second.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know it's very heavy to think about the one in the end. Who is most worthy to carry out the final judgment is a lamb who looks half dead like a zombie lamb, not a lion Right, and that the lion is this zombie lamb, I say it that way, just for dramatic effect. I don't mean to be frivolous with the idea, but it's a half dead lamb. It looks like it has been on a cross, it looks like it's been butchered and its blood is the reason why.
Speaker 2:But it's living, right, it's living.
Speaker 1:Right. I mean there's signs of it alive, that it went over to the Lord on the throne and took the scroll, so it reached out and took it from him and then opened it. So it's alive, but it looks dead.
Speaker 2:That's yeah, it's another one of those. Don't think about this in earthly terms, don't think about this in finite terms or scientific terms or anything like that. You have to think about it spiritually, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I don't want to neglect the physical terms of it Right, I don't want to neglect that part but we are talking about a realm beyond what we see. That's where Jesus is. Yeah, he is in a place beyond what our eyes can see.
Speaker 2:He has to be yes.
Speaker 1:And it's just amazing to me to think that this is where it all began, in Exodus with the Passover lamb, and it's all going to end in Revelation with the. Passover lamb.
Speaker 2:Right, all the things you're describing like from. I'm fascinated with Genesis and Revelation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I know I'm not alone there, yeah, but the pictures in Genesis and in Revelation are necessarily the way they are. It has to be a lamb, he has to look dead but be alive. It has to be a lion, also because there are polar opposites. One is strong, the other is weak. One needs strong, the other is weak. One needs help, the other one can kill you, so on and so on. And it has to be those polar opposites, those two ends of the spectrum, because Jesus, god, the Father and the Holy Spirit have to be all things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great way to look at it. He is all things, he just is. That's his name. He is, so that doesn't necessarily apply just to time, or his existence on a timeline or outside of a timeline. We're getting kind of Star Wars-y when we say it this way. Like the force is in all things the force binds us.
Speaker 2:You can get pantheistic really quick.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's not. I don't think that's the road we're going down, but I just want to say that so that we don't we're not misinterpreted here. We're not saying that God is everything like the force, but he created everything and we relate to him as the creator of all things you mentioned to me. Before we hit record, just wanted to touch a little bit on. We talked about the Passover lamb, but then going with that kind of looking at Jesus as the Passover lamb in the New Testament and I'm struck by I said it just a second ago that the Israelites had to consume the lamb that they had slain Are you familiar with anywhere in the New Testament where it talks about consuming Jesus or consuming the word? No, I was asking you so that my filter could finish running, sorry.
Speaker 2:I mean yes, and I'm about to say it now yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:All right, do you have a Okay? So Jesus calls himself the bread of life in John, chapter 6. All right, do you have a Okay? So Jesus calls himself the bread of life in John chapter six. Right, do you have a Bible with you? You have a Bible. I have. Grab your phone. I've got mine over here too. So I'm going to do this. And, john, this would be a good moment to say thank you to all of you who've been listening on a weekly basis. Is there anybody you'd like to give a shout out to? Nancy, nancy.
Speaker 2:And Barry.
Speaker 1:And Barry's listening. Yeah, that's right, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Now Nancy, I assume, is listening because she said she would, or she said she does every Wednesday on her way home. All right.
Speaker 1:Here's the test, nancy. If you're really listening, then tomorrow night at church it's Wednesday night I'll be there. When you see me you have to give me a peace sign. Just give me the peace sign. If you didn't listen, then we all know you're a fraud.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, john 6. If you didn't listen, then we all know you're a fraud.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, okay, john 6. I'm down in verse 51. Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:You want to read it? Go ahead. No, no, no, I'm not even there yet. Oh, you're not there yet the Wi-Fi.
Speaker 1:It kicked me off the Wi-Fi.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're out here in the sticks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're like less than a quarter mile from the church, right now.
Speaker 1:The boonies, the sticks. All right, I've got it, so I'll read it for you. I'm going to back up to verse 48. He says I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. We're not to that yet in Exodus, but we're getting there, the manna. I'm the bread of life, but here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. Okay, you seeing the imagery? Here, jesus is calling himself not just the manna that appeared on the ground in the wilderness, but he's saying he's going to give his flesh so that we can consume who he is. That's what we do at communion, by the way, the symbolism of the little unleavened bread bread like at the Passover, and the cup of juice representing the blood of the lamb of Jesus. That is, we're not recognizing Passover anymore as it was in.
Speaker 1:Exodus, but at communion we're recognizing Jesus as the Passover lamb and he says eat me. Yeah Right, eat my flesh. That's it. And so we are, metaphorically, but also very spiritually and in a real sense, we are consuming him by reading his word and by communing with him in prayer and meditating on who he is. That makes it make sense. We're filling ourselves with the Lamb of God, with his being yeah, yeah with his teachings, with just the knowledge of his existence man. So I said it earlier, Another symbol.
Speaker 1:It just kind of hit me that they had to eat the lamb. They had to consume the lamb in Exodus and paint its blood on the door. Well, Jesus painted the blood so that we can consume him and our lives would be transformed through the power of his word.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:And well, maybe it is. Our lives will be transformed. Sometimes I go off on like these tangents and after it comes out of my mouth I'm like I like it. Did that make any sense? Yeah, I mean they have to be connected yeah, well, hopefully some, hopefully the holy spirit's doing the work right now the.
Speaker 2:The other thing that we wanted to touch on was the picture of the crucifixion and that lamb being slaughtered is you'll. I've heard it called the worst thing done to the best person, and I said before we hit record because we have a 30 minute conversation before we hit record that it had to be that way to consume the world's sin. It had to be the worst thing done to the best person, because if it's just a slap on the wrist to a sort of nice guy, it doesn't make sense. Yeah, it's got to be the spotless lamb getting absolutely slaughtered, absolutely for no reason yeah, no earthly reason.
Speaker 1:I mean, well, they had earthly reasons. I I would. I would counter that and say for no spiritual reason. Okay, okay, you know, if he's spotless, then then he doesn't need to die like he shouldn't, he shouldn't be at risk okay, yeah, turn it, turn right yeah but they, they saw jesus as a as a false prophet. They, they saw him as a blasphemer, a person who was using god's name in frivolous ways. Okay, yeah, I'm not going to look it up because the Wi-Fi is not working.
Speaker 2:You could have a bystander saying he didn't even do anything. He didn't do anything. Well, he doesn't deserve this.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, I think we have a misconception of who Jesus was in the New Testament, sometimes, okay, that he just didn't do anything. I don't think that's true at all. I think he did so much. It forced himself into the spotlight to force people to either force the Romans to want to kill him or force the Jewish leaders to want to kill him. You mean, like being a disruptor? He was a disruptor. He disrupted the status quo. That's the buzzword these days.
Speaker 1:He disrupted the status quo of both the Roman government and of the Jewish religious government. Yeah, so both of these parties are going to have to do something about this. Jesus character in Jerusalem, because he's either like a super soldier who's going to rise up with a revolt against Caesar and try to take back Israel. Can't have that, can't have that, or he's a religious rebel and he's claiming that he's the son of God, like the son of God, the God that we don't even whisper his name, because he's so holy and sacred.
Speaker 1:You're telling me that you're not only the son of God, but you're using God's name for your own and doing these miracles. There were some people who thought he was a demon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Like I said, the internet's not working, so I'd look it up and say the words exactly. But Jesus was not just like some copacetic, like going around loving people. He was a disruptor.
Speaker 2:It's in a lot of ways. He was a political figure and because he was going against the policy of the time and he was also I mean, you don't want to what do you call it Trivialize it. Like you said, you don't want to trivialize who Jesus was just by saying he was a politician, because he wasn't that that's not what he was doing.
Speaker 1:In fact, he instructed the people obey Caesar, give to Caesar what is Caesar's. And so, as far as Rome was concerned, he may have seemed like it may have had a view of him or a false perception that he was going to rise up and try and take over again politically, but what Jesus taught was obey the rulers of the land.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Don't be disruptive for just the sake of disruption. Right Like, be obedient. And when you're obedient to the rulers of the land, you're also being obedient to God.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, like it's civilly disobedient. Would you say it's civilly disobedient Would?
Speaker 1:you say it's civilly disobedient. No, no, no, I see why you're saying that. Okay, he can't be disobedient and still be the perfect son of God. Okay, okay, okay, yeah. So I realize now the paradox I'm setting up in this conversation. Good, yeah, he was obedient to the law, and so the biggest disruption that he was bringing in Jerusalem was the disruption of the religious status quo. Okay, and you can do one without the other. And so it got him killed. Yeah, it did. But that was the plan. Like, he had to make himself known, he had to be a public figure so that people would like we read this past weekend, they would shout crucify him. Right, crucify him. You know, we got to do it today because Passover is tomorrow. We got to get it done so we can keep preparing for the Passover Crucify.
Speaker 2:So we can keep our laws.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly, yeah, yeah. Why did we get all off on that?
Speaker 2:Who knows? Maybe Nancy, maybe you'll tell us.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, let's keep thinking about that. Hopefully whoever's listening will keep thinking about that as well.
Speaker 2:When I say being a disruptor is a buzzword now, it's just the term that people are labeling. You might call it a game changer. Oh, he's a game changer, he's a revolutionary, he's a this or that. People don't like disruption, especially those in power.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You just don't. And if I was in power and somebody tried to take my power, I would have a strong reaction to it as well.
Speaker 1:I just would. Jesus was flipping the power structure. Yes so those who had power in his words will have none in the kingdom of God, and those who have no power in this kingdom will have power in the kingdom of God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not just taking your power. Like I can see him patting them on the head and say I'm not taking your power. I'm getting patting them on the head and say I'm not, I'm not taking your power, I'm getting rid of the, the word power, like I'm just flipping it. I'm flipping everything you know as power on its ear.
Speaker 1:You know like I'm I'm turning over everything you think you know, yeah Well, that Jesus does that to me on a daily basis.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and and with good reason. Yeah, because understanding something as big and as broad, but also as, as you say, eminent as God, jesus, trinity, all those things you're going to have to be continuously humbled with all this new thoughts, new information, things like that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, here's what I'm going to do. Okay, I'm going to do one more of those little musical things. Okay, then I want to hit on one last topic before we close out. Is that good? Yeah, cool, all right, we can't finish this discussion without talking about going through the water. That was just as big a part of the message on Sunday than the rest of this. What we see in Exodus of the crossing of the Red Sea parallels, obviously with Jesus being baptized in the Jordan River, and we see this picture of water and baptism and new creation or new life all throughout the scriptures, and so I just want to end with maybe just a brief discussion about what is baptism and why does it matter for us? Yeah, yeah, what do you think? Where?
Speaker 2:are you starting from? I've always I say always this has been in the last 10 years maybe conceptualized baptism, as you are going into a grave and being raised up and water is the most readily available and easy material that you can be put into and raised up from.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine if we were supposed to get buried under six feet of earth and then get re-dug up?
Speaker 2:It'd be very different on Sundays. A lot less people would be baptized just because somebody would come along and say isn't there some other way we can symbolize this Right?
Speaker 1:Well, good news is we didn't have to come up with it Exactly. God gave us the blueprint of what we were supposed to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, I love the imagery of water and actually throughout human history, the idea that water is a rejuvenator or a like a refresher of life is. It points out to me that this is something that God designed it to be all along. Yeah, something that God designed it to be all along, and so, like in the very beginning, like in Genesis 1, when it says the spirit of God was hovering over the deep you'll see in some versions that it was hovering over the water and then God spoke and creation happened. It was like new life came out of this chaotic water world or whatever the poem is trying to get us to picture right.
Speaker 1:And then in Exodus, the Israelites crossed through the Red Sea. And then, later on, in Joshua, they crossed through the Jordan River, much like the Red Sea crossing. And then Jesus we get all the way to his story and he's baptized in the Jordan River. And then Peter, in Acts 2.38, tells all Christians, all people who want to follow Jesus. He says this is what you should do, now that you understand that the Passover lamb has been slain for you.
Speaker 1:What you should do is you should be baptized, immersed in the water all the way down and all the way back up, for the forgiveness of sin and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And that's a promise that lasts for you and for generation after generation after generation. It's the pivotal moment of receiving Christ as your Savior and your Lord, and we believe that fully at Crosspoint, that baptism is the full culmination. It is your moment of fully identifying with the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. Just like Paul would say in the New Testament, to put on Christ as if he were a cloak that you could put over yourself. You're putting on Jesus when you go through the waters of baptism.
Speaker 2:The symbols and the analogies never end, because he is all things, yeah, and you can use any. Use any symbol and analogy you want really as long as it makes sense to, to describe the relationship, the actions, the personhood and the Spirit of God, because he is all things. And I thought of what I think is a good question what do you think is the if taken as a narrative? What do you think is the climax of the Bible?
Speaker 1:Oh, the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. Okay, those are two separate events, but one doesn't happen without the other.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the death and resurrection of Jesus is the climax of the story, so everything is leading up to it, and then, after that, everything is different because of it. Yep, okay, got it. Do you think there's any other part of the Bible that somebody could make a case for being the climax?
Speaker 1:Oh man, I'm just curious. I'd have to think about that Initially. I would just say, no, I don't know how you could. Yeah, it's such a dramatic event. Not the birth of Jesus. No, I think we celebrate that more than we're supposed to. I think, culturally, we've turned Christmas into more than what Jesus told us to celebrate. We're supposed to remember his death. He never said anything about remembering his birth. Listen, the birth is incredible. Immaculate conception. The Virgin Mary becomes pregnant with the Son of God Like this is incredible stuff.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, but that doesn't matter. If Jesus doesn't die and is resurrected from the grave, okay, like our situation doesn't change just because Jesus was born in Bethlehem, got it. Our situation changes because Jesus died and resurrected from the grave the way he died and what happened after yeah and resurrected. You can't you if he just died then our situation still isn't the same yeah he. Okay.
Speaker 1:So the lamb died, but because of the resurrection he has defeated death now yeah and that's why we, like jesus, says in John I think it's John 11, he says I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, even though he dies, will live forever, and he who believes in me and lives will never die. So we have eternal life because he is the resurrection. He went into the chaos.
Speaker 2:That's what the death is.
Speaker 1:It's the reverse of creation. When you die, it's the reverse of you being born, and so Jesus allowed himself, as God, to go into the nothingness, to cross into the chaos. I say nothingness, but this is because my brain can't comprehend it. He passed into decreation the opposite of being created. Okay, and then Came out of it Because he's God For the first time ever so.
Speaker 1:So he's not the first person to be resurrected in scripture, but the death and resurrection of Jesus Is him, god himself, coming down, living a perfect life which is no one else Ever can, has ever done or can do according to God's moral standards. And even though he lived perfectly, he accepted the punishment of those like you and me who do not live perfectly. Death is the punishment, dying, going into the decreation. But Jesus, being God, came out of death and resurrected back to life, and because of the resurrection, he is the ruler now of both life and death. Yeah, and what else is?
Speaker 2:there.
Speaker 1:He's everything yeah yeah, okay. That's a lot to take in, but that's the gospel.
Speaker 2:That could be a whole episode unto itself.
Speaker 1:If you just put it in simple terms, that is the gospel that Jesus lived a perfect life. He died on the cross to take away your sin as the lamb, and then he resurrected on the third morning as the victor over both life and death, for all of eternity. And that's why, when we put our faith and our trust, our hope, all these words in him and we're baptized in the water, we receive his new life as our own. Well, the elders will be at the back of the room now to pray with you.
Speaker 1:We both just collectively took like a really deep breath. Hey, thanks so much for listening today. That's a lot of deep topics today, yeah, but I love it. We're just walking through the Bible, right, and the Bible is deep, man. It is such a well of knowledge and a way of life. So let's keep trying to follow after the way. You with me, me with you. All right, see y'all next week.