#104 - Joshua De Schutter - Why Your 20s Aren’t For Winning

Joshua De Schutter sees poetry as the foundation of every art form, just words on paper that can make someone feel seen. From feeling lost at 19 to reaching millions, he shares how poetry became a way to articulate emotions people can’t name, why you can only create from what you’ve lived, and how “falling off” early on taught him to separate art from numbers. This is about faith, identity, pressure in your twenties, and learning how to play before trying to win.

Timestamps:
00:00 A Young Aspiring Poet
01:44 Why Poetry Makes Joshua Feel Alive
03:09 Being Homeschooled
06:16 Mind Of An Engineer, Work Of An Artist
11:57 Balancing Poetry & Life
14:53 Writing On Surfaces & Collecting Ideas
19:32 Becoming A Public Presence 
24:07 Why Joshua Thinks He Was Able To Grow A Following So Fast
31:10 What Feels Hard Right Now
38:39 An Ideal Day In The Life  
39:36 Joshua's Relationship With Faith
49:18 Physical Fitness For Creativity
49:56 Performing With Dermot Kennedy
52:14 Culture Of Poets
54:29 Joshua's Main Priorities
56:28 Learn How To Play A Game
59:55 Live Today, Connect The Dots Tomorrow
1:00:55 Connect With Joshua De Schutter

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Transcript

Joshua De Schutter sees poetry as the foundation of every art form, just words on paper that can make someone feel seen. From feeling lost at 19 to reaching millions, he shares how poetry became a way to articulate emotions people can’t name, why you can only create from what you’ve lived, and how “falling off” early on taught him to separate art from numbers. This is about faith, identity, pressure in your twenties, and learning how to play before trying to win.

Speaker-0 (00:00.194)

Joshua De Schutter. Welcome to the show.

speaker-1 (00:01.844)

Thank you, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

speaker-0 (00:03.99)

In your Instagram bio, you call yourself a young aspiring poet. Why aspiring?

speaker-1 (00:08.428)

Yes. Why aspiring? think so much of me feels like, for one, I like the aesthetic. Like the aspiring, it feel like whenever I put work out, it feels like, okay, this doesn't have to be a perfect finished product. Cause I've kind of disclaimer, I'm working on it. Like I'm not there yet. I haven't written an insane amount of work. Like I think I've only posted out like 105 poems. So I've only really written.

which we'll get into the story of how I started, those are really the only poems I've written. Like when I started writing poetry is when I started posting it. So there's, I feel like there's just not enough reps for me to like claim anything outside of that. It's a good like introduction, a young aspiring poet.

speaker-0 (00:48.608)

It's interesting because I feel like aspiring, always make that synonymous with identity. you're saying that it has to do more so with craft. So let me just continue to dive deeper into the craft of it. And it's not so much of a becoming as it's more so of a chasing a feeling. Like it is for you. you say, people keep telling me that poetry is dead. I don't know how something dead could make me feel this alive.

What's it about poetry that makes you feel so alive?

speaker-1 (01:25.944)

think my favorite thing about poetry that is very different than other art forms is how it is such a low barrier to entry. Like you just need words and paper. And there's something that's so fundamental about that art form that other art forms kind of branch out of. Like I feel like music is the next step to poetry and movies like screenplays is the next step to poetry. But poetry is step one. Like beauty with words on paper.

And like when you can write something down and slide it across a table that's just black and white, and that can evoke like an emotion, a feeling, you can tell something, like you can tell, you can say something about someone that they don't even realize about themselves with poetry on a piece of paper. And there's something about that that is so human and beautiful that I love. That, that's what that is.

speaker-0 (02:16.706)

Had you ever gotten that feeling somewhere else within your life or was that a completely novel feeling that you got from poetry?

speaker-1 (02:22.518)

No, and other places, 100%, like I'm huge into music, I'm huge into movies, but there's something about it being like two ingredients to get that result. That's why like, that's why. If that answers your question. It was, isn't that crazy? When I tell people that they have very mixed, there's homeschoolers kind of get a bad rap. So when I tell people that, I kind of keep that on the down low, because there's so much like connotation with it. But no, you've done your research, I was homeschooled.

speaker-0 (02:36.3)

You were homeschooled as a kid.

speaker-0 (02:51.65)

How has that played a role in your life?

speaker-1 (02:53.456)

how is it not? My parents took a very like, also took like a very hands off approach. So when it came to homeschooling, it was more or less, you know, this is what you have to have done by the end of the year, like figure it out. Like I remember, was funny story. One time we were actually living in Vegas at the time, because we traveled a lot during high school, which is why we didn't go to school in high school. And my mom had signed me up for a, so in the States you can like, you can study for college exams and then just take the test on certain, on certain

curriculum. So she signed me up for American history, entry to American history. I was like, Mom, I don't know anything about like I'm Canadian. I don't know anything about American. Like where so where do I go to learn where? And she was like, figured out your test is in two months. And I showed up, I barely passed that exam. That was the skin of my teeth. I passed by by one mark. But yeah, it was very a hands off approach. So early on, it very much taught me that the most important thing you can learn is learning how to learn and understanding even more beyond that.

that how you learn how to learn is different than everyone else. Like everyone else is like a different person and whatever system works for you on how to learn is different than everyone else. And so very early I developed what my system was. And then with that, can just, like I did that with Instagram, I did that with poetry, I did that with music. It's like, I have the biggest thing homeschooling gave me was the foundation and the blueprint of how do I add more things to my resume?

So that I would say that's the biggest thing learning how to learn

speaker-0 (04:25.88)

Did you also get like a lot of social interaction and simulation?

speaker-1 (04:29.634)

love this question. Yeah, and I'm a very social person. like the thing, and also we live like inner city. So like a lot of my friends would go to school. I would do school at home. And then afterwards we go to the park and play ball. So.

speaker-0 (04:47.79)

Kind of a weird question, like, so like, how'd you become friends with them?

speaker-1 (04:50.536)

Okay, no, fair enough, fair enough. Well, we just live on the same street. So it's like, and we're the same age, right? There's so much less of a barrier there than people think. Like it's like we forget that everyone is like human and meeting people is the first thing you do in life. Like that is step one. And whether you learn in a house or you learn in a building with other people.

does not affect how many people you know in your life, does not affect how many people you meet in your life. mean, marginally early on, but it was a non-factor in my life. So we would have different like co-ops we would go to, sports, like I said, neighborhood friends, friends you meet online. It's like the avenues are all still there. It's so interesting that that is what people kind of pick up on when, homeschool, okay, he doesn't know a lot of people, didn't meet a lot of people, doesn't have social skills. But that is like a barrier that is not even relevant to the homeschool community, especially now with the internet and everything.

speaker-0 (05:42.79)

You did spend one year in an actual high school though. Your freshman year. that was because of an aviation program that you were in.

speaker-1 (05:51.48)

I wanted to be a pilot. wanted to fly airplanes. Growing up, I was fascinated. It was so funny, I would have this prayer I would pray every night. was like, God, don't let me be taller than five, nine. Cause I wanted to, I want to be a fighter pilot in the Air Force. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Here we are right now, which is crazy. And I'm taller than five, nine, which thank God for that too. Remember, not everything you pray for is what you actually want. It's a lesson there. But I wanted to be a pilot. And so in high school, I went to

The school in our district was Montcalm and they had a huge, they had less students, so they had more budget for things. And so one year they introduced an aviation program, which was like this co-ed thing where like you would go to school and then you would work at like a museum, like a jet aircraft museum and you'd work on the planes. And it was like, it wasn't really even a school experience because we were like three days in the classroom and then two days on site. A really amazing program. I think they've changed it now, so it's not as good. Shout out Montcalm secondary school. So I went there for a year, phenomenal experience, yeah.

speaker-0 (06:51.01)

So was it right around that time as well that you got right into writing poetry? Because I know it was, what, you were around 15 years old when you really got into poetry? yeah, yeah.

speaker-1 (07:02.382)

So I had kind of been like dabbling in it before, but nothing too serious. And then, yeah, it would have been right around there. I went to the library, or not the library, there's, at the time it was called Indigo, think, no chapters and they changed the name to Indigo. It was a bookstore in my town. And I would go in and I would read like, I was big into history. So I would go to the history section and read history. And the one day I went in and,

they had moved the sections around. So where the history was, they moved to the back of the store, like in the back. And then they were temporarily put up the literary and poetry section in the front. So I went to what was traditionally the history section and it was poetry, which I was very unimpressed with at the time. And then it was, I was like, okay, well, let's see what this is about. So I picked up, it was Billy Collins. I can't even remember the name of the book, but there was one poem in it that was, it was less of a poem and more of like this beautiful, like short essay.

Elk, don't quote me on it, but I think it was Elk, Elk River Falls. I should have come more prepared. This is my origin story. This is like my Batman story. And I just remember reading it being like, wow, I didn't know words could do that. You know what I mean? And it's like, wow, all you need, what you're telling me, all you need to do this is a piece of paper and a pen? It's over, it's over. And so ever since then, that's when I really started.

speaker-0 (08:23.438)

It's really interesting though. So you have that mechanical engineering like mind to you through the aviation.

speaker-1 (08:30.54)

100%. I thought it was going to be an engineer.

speaker-0 (08:32.876)

So how do you think that's played a role within your creative process as well in combining those two things?

speaker-1 (08:41.932)

I think for me, like the breaking down of systems, like not looking at something as like a whole, but being able to like divide it down and like reverse engineer it. So with like even my writing process, don't like when I was kind of developing, okay, what writing style, what works for me? It wasn't like a focus on the output. I need to get a poem is more like, okay, what are the steps? What do I, what inspires me? does, so I think the biggest thing that that comes into play is the ability to focus on the little things that add up to the actual finished product. I would say that's where like the engineering.

mind kind of comes into play.

speaker-0 (09:13.986)

You either find a really good line and from there you work back and you find a story where you find a really good story and from there you work back and you find a really good line.

speaker-1 (09:23.214)

So in my humble opinion as a 21 year old who's only written 100 poems, my recipe for a good

speaker-0 (09:29.518)

That's a lot of poems, It's not as many Dude, that's a lot of poems.

speaker-1 (09:32.494)

I appreciate it. appreciate it. You need a really good line and you need a really good story, a really good theme. And if you get two of those things, then it's a phenomenal work of art. And so for me, I work backwards. So like if I'm writing and I'm like, so I'll start off, I'll just start writing, start writing, start writing. And then I might get something, I might get like a concept or an idea or a story. And then I'll write that out, see what that looks like, kind of write a short essay, edit that down, stanzas. And then I've...

I hone in on what is the line, what is the one line that just clicks? Something that people haven't heard before or worded different that people aren't familiar with, something that like, whoa. Because it's like the story leads up to leads in this, it's like pulling the rug out of someone. Or in the contrary, sometimes I get like an insane line, like just a line that I love and I'm like, okay, what's the theme behind this? What's the story that leads up to this? And so that is my writing process. I'll either start with a really good story or concept.

or really just bang our line and then work back from that.

speaker-0 (10:31.064)

How long does that process take for you?

speaker-1 (10:34.074)

it could be three days, it could be three minutes. It's never been the same. There's a hundred different answers for that for each of the different poems I've done. But I would say typically, typically like what my structure looks like now is in the mornings I'll have like an hour of like brainstorming. And then usually within that I can come up with one of those. Usually I kind of honed into where I can kind of either get a decent line or a decent theme within.

one to two hours and then writing out the poem two to three hours and then editing it an hour. I've never actually really thought about it because it's also like a stagger. Like I'll be writing about today what I brainstormed yesterday. So it's like, it's not like blocks. It's not super calculable. Calculatable. Calculable.

speaker-0 (11:24.174)

There's this clip of Jerry Seinfeld that I love. was doing an interview with Howard Stern and Howard was asking him basically like, you know, are you ever able to turn your mind off? And Jerry Seinfeld's always like, I'm always thinking material. I'm always on. Do you feel like you're able to turn your mind on and off to a degree when it comes to poetry or is it something that you're just constantly thinking about?

speaker-1 (11:50.958)

That's a good question.

speaker-1 (11:56.13)

I'm not always in like writing mode. Like I'm not always in like brainstorm mode. There are definitely moments in life where I see something or think something, that's an idea. And I'll write it down in my notes app and then I'll revisit it. But I'm not like constantly like, okay, what's the line? Like I'm not like, I just kind of live life and then write about it afterwards instead of like in the moment, if that makes sense. So I can definitely, cause you got it like writing is like,

It's interesting because you can only write from what you've lived. So if you don't actually live anything, you have nothing to write about. And if you're constantly in this mode of like, there have been days where I'm just like, okay, right, right, right, right, right, right, right. And I'll just hit a wall, hit a wall, hit a wall. Like, why can't I write anything? Well, because I'm not living anything. There's like nothing to write about. There's no source material. And so for me, like if I'm always in that, okay, what's the idea? What's the hook? What's the blah, blah, blah? You just, don't get anything because the profound moments happen when you're being human instead of when you're trying to write about being human, if that makes sense.

So I think it's actually important to turn it off. And obviously that comedy is a different thing and whatever, but for me, it's very important that I have kind of Joshua and then Joshua's poetry. So yeah, I manage it decently well. We're working on it.

speaker-0 (13:09.698)

What's that breakdown, I guess, look like between Joshua and Joshua's poetry?

speaker-1 (13:15.074)

What do mean?

speaker-0 (13:16.408)

What's the difference there? Okay.

speaker-1 (13:18.711)

I would say just like the, like, I think it's more like the distinction between artist and person. Like, like just like what this world entails of like the writing and the brainstorming and the filming and the posting and the acting versus just who I am. And then just, I don't know, I kinda, for the most part, I kinda keep it a pretty solid line. Okay, this is my time to myself and then this is my time to work on my art. Really? Yeah, yeah.

speaker-0 (13:44.576)

You think you have a pretty good like harsh delineation there.

speaker-1 (13:48.642)

decently, I mean you can never fully separate it. But I would say so, like when I'm with my friends I'm not thinking about it, you know what mean? When I'm playing guitar I'm not thinking about it. So for the most part, yeah.

speaker-0 (14:02.094)

It's interesting, you would say in a subconscious level type of way though, that's playing into you being able to on the poetry. Poetry.

speaker-1 (14:09.934)

100%. You can only write about what you lived. You know what I mean? So you need source material. Step one is live. Step one is do things. Step two is write about it.

speaker-0 (14:19.822)

When you talk about writing and only needing pen and paper, you've also shared though that you write on surfaces. Is that something that you still do? on surfaces? Like-

speaker-1 (14:29.624)

Yeah, 100%. No, it's so funny. Okay, I love this story. In Canada, and I do it now in our new place here in Austin, but in Canada, had, so I'd have this, I got, so I used to work at Goodwill, terrible job. I hated it, I hated it, I hated it. Very good life experience. Good material. And I loved, I loved the people, but the job itself was brutal. But one day I was, it was early morning and this person donated like this beautiful, like, probably like a,

speaker-0 (14:43.096)

Good life experience,

speaker-1 (14:56.374)

an eight foot mirror like with this gold trim and like three, four feet tall. And it was in the morning and we always had to let things sit on the sales floor for other people to buy it. And three people tried to buy it it wouldn't fit in their car. And so finally on my lunch break, I snagged it and then got my parents to pick it up and hung it on my wall. So I have this beautiful mirror and I would take a Sharpie and I also had like a dresser with a glass top. And then I also had a whiteboard. So I had three surfaces. And then I had this rug that had like this outline and I would just

walk in circles, this is my home in Canada, on this rug and then whenever I thought of something, whatever surface was closest, I would take the dry erase and then write something out and then it's a very fun, I think there are so many creative ways to be creative that people haven't even like, cause it's like sitting down in journal pen, like that's great, that's what I predominantly do now, but it's like there are ways, there are creative ways to be creative.

And that was one of them for me that worked. It was a very fun writing process. You're moving around, it's kind of its own thing. So yeah.

speaker-0 (15:57.57)

So your process looks like now ideas come to you, notes section in your phone, and then the actual writing process is more...

speaker-1 (16:04.182)

Yeah, so if they come to me throughout the day, I'll either do like a voice memo is even better, because then you can kind of elaborate like just very quickly. then, when I do my brainstorming section, I'll kind of write about that. Or if I don't have any material to write about, then in my brainstorming, I'll just start writing about how I feel and then, maybe there's something here and then what's the level below that. Whenever I do writing, it's like, I kind of have this concept of like, there are like levels to it.

And so like, okay, so you have something like, I was writing one day, like, I should do a poem about my parents. I was like, okay, so this is level one, parents. What's the level below that? Okay, parents getting older. And then what's the level below that? Watching your parents get older while you're getting older, like growing up together. You know what I mean? And it's like, you kind of niche the theme down into something that's not spoken a lot about. There are hundreds of poems about parents. There are hundreds of poems about parents getting old.

There's not as many, I think the poem was, the hardest part about growing up is watching your parents grow up. And it's like, boom, it's new. And so that's kind of my, that's my process.

speaker-0 (17:16.51)

beautifully put, and I feel like that goes towards your mechanical engineering type mind combined with the

speaker-1 (17:21.869)

100%. And it's like the best, I was talking to Josh about this, it's like the best, the most, like the best message to give someone is the one that they can't articulate for themselves. Like the one that they haven't thought about, that they feel, but no one has put words to it. That's what I love. It's like when I read the comments and I write something, like, I've been feeling this, but no one has told me what this is. That's what that is. Cause now like niche is mainstream. Any niche, millions of people.

Like niche is mainstream. even at, you could dial it in even further than that and it would hit millions of people. You know what I mean? Because there are just so many people in the same stages of life as you and others. So yeah, that's what I love. That's what I, that's kind of my writing process. Try to see how many levels deep can I go until it's something I haven't heard before.

speaker-0 (18:11.246)

So we've laid the groundwork here for how you got exposed to poetry, your creative path here. Would love to take the next step in the journey where, okay, now I want to go public with this. What was the birth of that?

speaker-1 (18:28.91)

Okay, let me tell you a story.

Okay, so I graduate high school and I immediately get this job at this thrift store, Telly's was a local thrift store. And I love that job, it was a really good job. And I worked that and I get to a point where I'm like, okay, like what am I doing? Like I'm not going to school, I'm just working this job. And if I stay here, I could work up the company, but I'm gonna get comfortable and I'm gonna waste my life essentially. So I quit my job and I moved to Hawaii. I spent four months in Hawaii, beautiful, beautiful.

beautiful weather. I kind of went to Hawaii, it's kind of cliche to discover myself and see what I wanted to do, but I ended up coming back with more questions than I originally had. And I came back to Ontario in winter. So I went to Hawaii in October and I came back in the middle of winter and it was just depressing. It was like, damn, okay, I need to get another job this one. I went to work for Goodwill and it was just this heavy, heavy spirit of these...

going to Hawaii to like try and find myself running out of money, coming home and just, okay, back to exactly where I started, why all my other friends are going to school, getting jobs, getting married. And it's like, okay, what do I do with all this? And so I started writing again. And the first poem I had written was a poem, it was titled, I Got Lost Again Today. It's kind of funny, it's kind of a meme in our house, because it's, anyways. And so I had written the poem.

And for whatever reason, I had this idea of posting it. And it was more so like in five years from now, I could look back and see what I looked like. It was more of like an attempt of like, I'm doing this for my kids. Like I'm doing this so I can show them. I'm doing this so I can get some free cloud storage in the five years, discover this old Instagram account and see what I looked like, see what I was up to. And so I went out, it was the woods, it was freezing cold. I was wearing a coat and I hiked down to this little walking trail.

speaker-1 (20:20.514)

took some duct tape and I taped my phone up, cause I didn't have a tripod. I pressed record, I taped my phone up to a tree and then I just walked back and then I stood there for a second and then I just started reciting it and then it was unedited, all that was left in for the most part. And terrible quality and then I hit post and it did nothing, obviously. It did like 2000 views.

So then I did the next one, 2000 years, next one, next one. And then I did that one, the, can people say poetry's dead when it makes me feel, you know, so alive. And that was like a cool kind of fun edit. So I posted that one and that one was actually the first one to pop off. So that one went to like a million views. But because of that, people went back to that very first video. And there was something about, and I wish I could figure it out because I still haven't really been able to replicate whatever. And I think it was just, there's some works that are just supposed to happen. I think that's what that was and it can never be recreated.

But that one then popped off and went to like 10 million views in like the course of two weeks. And from that I gained like, I went from no followers to a hundred thousand followers in 30 days. And it was like, okay, I'm a poet now. Yeah, well, it's fine. Yeah, I forgot that. Yeah. I just throw that in there for the humility.

speaker-0 (21:33.39)

aspiring people.

speaker-0 (21:39.01)

How was Instagram and social media almost like the backup plan though to your initial ambition of wanting to be a published poet?

speaker-1 (21:47.854)

Yeah, okay, so yeah, I forgot about that. Because during this time when I was writing, I was I was writing out my goals. Like what are some good goals that would make me feel like I won the year? Cause I'm not in school. At that time I didn't have the job. This was in, this would have been in February. And so one of them was like, okay, it would be cool to be a published poet. And so I submitted my work to a bunch of, I can't remember exactly how many, but a bunch of different like small poetry magazine publications.

Like, man, there was like a copy paste email, like copy, who is like, this is my work, this is who I am, blah, blah, blah, this is my bio, these are my three favorites, blah, blah, whatever, send that off to a bunch of, and every single, they didn't respond or they're like, there's no way, like you're not doing this. And so I'm like, shoot man, like the magazines won't take me, there's no way I could do a book. So that's, I think that's really when I was like, okay, let's just, let's throw it online and just have it at some point in the future.

So that was the lead up to that,

speaker-0 (22:48.366)

So you said with that first video that you put up at the start really didn't do anything, but then you put up a later video that pops off and then people go back to that first one and that goes viral. And you feel like you haven't really figured out what it is about that. have some inclinations. mean, what do you credit such crazy growth to?

speaker-1 (23:00.654)

Put it back in the audio.

speaker-1 (23:18.656)

I think it goes back to that concept of there are millions of people who feel as niche as you feel right now. And whatever this, like, cause problems are so multifaceted. Like for me, it was like, okay, I'm not in school. That's one level. I don't have a job. That's another level. I don't know what I want to do. You niche down on these problems and you feel like this very custom pain, if you will. And you think that the world is so small, no one else feels that same custom pain.

But because the world is massive, there are millions of people who feel that, whatever that feeling is. And so I think it was just like this. I was able to, for whatever reason, capture the words that were associated with how I felt. It's like I was able to articulate that and put that articulation into the exact same niche pain as the 10 million people and then 100,000 people who follow me. I think that's what it was. I think it was.

speaking to people's problems without them even knowing that they felt that. And, cause it was so, it was so like organic and it was so raw. Like it was just, like I said, like an iPhone footage. There was something about it that was so real of I'm lost. Like I'm, I'm, I think I was 19 at the time. I'm lost. I don't know what to do. Like I don't know what to do. Like I'm, I'm an adult. I have no adult experience. I don't know how to do this. I'm lost. And there's something about that.

that just caught people in their own loss. And that just related to the following. yeah, that's definitely one of my, I look back on it now and I'm like, okay, the technicality of this word versus this word, you it's not the best poem, you know, but it is one of my favorites because it's so real. It's one of the realest things I've written.

speaker-0 (25:08.43)

I have my own hypothesis.

speaker-1 (25:09.602)

I'm ready

speaker-0 (25:14.018)

Just being within your presence today here, just feeling it, like you have a very intoxicating energy. I appreciate it, In the best way possible. Like it is very addictive in a great way. you. And I think the fact that you combine poetry and writing with video and voice is a crucial part of that, or just that's the way that I consume it. Because I think,

almost like in a stereotypical fashion, like if you're watching like a TV show or a movie with like the poetry kid or the writing kid, and it's usually like the shy, quiet, scared kid who doesn't want to speak, but like, whoa, like they're a really good writer and they just like hide behind the page and they hide behind the words. You have all that, but you combine it with the video and the voice and your face and your identity. And it really brings

the poetry and the words to life because

speaker-0 (26:18.946)

Like if you just created your page of just your writing, like if it was just images.

speaker-1 (26:25.73)

It would be nothing. Yeah. 100%.

speaker-0 (26:27.894)

like you put yourself out there with it. You're like, I'm Joshua Deshutter.

speaker-1 (26:31.51)

100%. And it's so interesting, because that has become a conscious thing. So the first video was like, whatever, I just did it. But then I'm like, okay, for me personally, if I'm be honest with you, for me poetry is kind of boring. 90 % of poetry is really hard to read for me. I feel like a lot of it is just people's journal entries. And I'm like, so how do we fix this? How do we make it entertaining? I'm like, okay, so I'm not the best writer.

I'm a big fan, you're gonna get this Tim, I'm a big fan of stacking. I like the, I do it a lot. But I'm not the best writer, I'm not the best actor, and I'm not the best cinematographer. But if I take a little bit of each of those and put in a package, that's the best of that out there. You know what I mean? Or I would think. So that's when I really started performing. I don't know if you've seen some of my works where I'm more theatrical. Like I'm performing it. I appreciate it, I appreciate it.

speaker-0 (27:23.608)

tonality is very impressive.

speaker-1 (27:26.592)

It's like, do I get people to watch this if I was just saying gibberish? Like, how do I get them to feel the words if the volume was off? You know what I mean? And that's when I've really started like, okay, let's make it passionate. Like, let's make poetry exciting again, instead of like, just like, cause school butchers poetry. It's like, they have you read all these dull, boring books that a lot of it doesn't rhyme, which I appreciate poetry that doesn't rhyme, but for the average person, it's like, okay, what is this? How is this different than an essay? You know what I mean?

and they just butcher it in school and it's mandatory and then you get to the point where it's like, okay, you see a poet online and it's like, okay, the connotation of this is what poetry is. But in reality, poetry is the first level to any other art form. And so it should be appreciated the same way and there should be just as much passion as, know, someone on stage singing their heart out. That's what poetry is. Like that, that, that, and that's what I try to capture now in my videos. And so it's become like a more conscious thing. Like what you said about like the voice and the acting and all that, that has now become like a conscious passion.

where like when people see me, I want them to be able to watch it with the sound off and just see my face and feel it. So yeah, it's interesting that you notice that because now that has become more.

speaker-0 (28:36.244)

Yeah, mean, you're part poet, part orator, it seems like. But it's fascinating, you definitely are an actor and a performer in that way. And I don't know if you, you've probably never gotten this, but there's an actor that you remind me of. Who's that? Ethan Hawke.

speaker-1 (28:52.118)

Okay, no, I, all the time. you do get that. Because-

speaker-0 (28:55.82)

Kinda look like him, but also dead poets inside.

speaker-1 (28:58.408)

Exactly. That's what I think that's the bigger connotation. Like I look.

speaker-0 (29:02.08)

I'm not where it came from originally though. really? I don't know if you've ever seen, have you seen his Ted talk on creativity? was like, man, that's where he reminds me of.

speaker-1 (29:07.822)

No. Okay, I'm gonna have to let that- That's where-

Really? Okay, that's so funny. In my early videos, get Jesse Eisenberg a lot, because my hair kind of grows out curly. But yeah, Ethan, I think the bigger connotation is the dead poet society aesthetic, if you will. I appreciate it, yeah.

speaker-0 (29:26.594)

I like a young version. I love that. That's so fun. You've gotten up for that.

speaker-1 (29:34.166)

Yeah, yeah, no, it's always so fun. I used to, back in the day when I was just starting off, would, this is so bad. I would like screenshot the comments of like, dead post is, Todd Anderson is the character in the movie. But yeah, no, that's funny. I appreciate it.

speaker-0 (29:50.444)

So, like you said, growth happens really fast for you from a social media public presence perspective and so fast that you don't have a concept of reality and how was this easy? Was this hard? Why did this happen? where you are right now, what do you have an understanding of and what does feel hard?

speaker-1 (30:02.574)

reality.

speaker-1 (30:17.804)

when it comes to specifically the growth aspect of it.

speaker-0 (30:21.644)

I guess the growth aspect of dealing with the growth or just within your creative process,

speaker-1 (30:28.334)

Okay, so, okay, let's talk about the growth, because I love talking about this, because it's so important for artists to hear, like young artists to hear, because it's like so arbitrary, because there are more talented people out there who have less following. And so I love talking about the growth, because it's so important for people to understand. So, okay, so I go from zero to 100,000 in 30 days, and then I go to 200,000 in 60 days, 300,000 in like 90 days, and then nothing.

and then I like plateau and then I kind of burn out and I stop writing. And then I post once, maybe a month, once, maybe two months, like I disappear for three months. It's like, and then my audience starts to shrink.

speaker-0 (31:09.868)

Because you got demotivated, that's why you sat post?

speaker-1 (31:11.832)

I think it was, I was just, yes, but also at the time in my life wasn't a super good time in my life, like for personal reasons. And then pair that with, I was still working full time and you just only have so much time. And also like I was a much slower writer then. So it would take me a couple of days to get a whole piece out. And so I was just very new to it. And so I just, and then, but then you get into your head the mental barrier of I don't want to put it out if it's not going to do well.

but you don't even know what's gonna do well, because you didn't even think the first one would do well. But all you see is everything you've done before and what you're putting out now performing a little less, a little less, and you're like, I lost it, I fell off. And so it got to a point where like I lost, I think 50,000 followers, which isn't that crazy. But for me, when it's your whole, that is all you're holding onto outside of your job at Goodwill. Like when you're not in school, you got no career path and you have, and you go from,

400,000 followers down to almost 340,000 followers. That's a lot, like that will rock you. But this is the most important thing that I learned in that. And the most important thing that can happen to your career as a byproduct, and I'm gonna say this to the camera, it's so important that you fall off early when the stakes are low. It is so important that you lose that early when the stakes are low.

because it's gonna happen at some point in your career, right? No one can maintain that forever. And it's so important that it happens when you have nothing so that you realize how little it is, how arbitrary it is, and how much it doesn't matter. Because the second I started posting again, like the second I started getting back into it, within two weeks I had built it back up. And so I let that mindset control me for like almost a year of like, I'm losing, I'm losing, I'm losing. And it would keep me from putting stuff out, which would keep me from catching up.

And so it's so important to experience that feeling. Cause it's like, it's all relative, right? Like, so like a huge artist releasing an album that flops, they would feel the same as me releasing a series of poems that fall. Cause it's relative, you you base it on what you've done and what you could do. And so if you can handle your emotions and how you feel about yourself in the moments when the stakes are objectively low, but they feel huge cause it's your life.

speaker-1 (33:33.9)

then you can do that. So in the future, when I do huge things, like I wanna do like tours and stuff, if something happens where it's like there's a dip, I can be like, okay, remember how I was okay before, and remember how I'm still a good writer, and remember how I can still make art because I enjoy it. Okay, well, I can do that now. So that was the biggest thing I learned. Like it's so important to experience the quote unquote fall off, if you will, early on when the objective stakes are low, even if it feels like it's your whole world at the time, because I promise it's not, and we'll show you that.

And then you get to a point where it's like, you can just post things. Like you can just make things and you don't care what people think. And that is where the real, that's where when you're just throwing things at the wall, that's when things start to stick. So yeah, so when it comes to the growth, that would be my biggest lesson, my biggest takeaway from my personal journey.

speaker-0 (34:24.919)

any struggles or difficulties when it comes to the work side of things.

speaker-1 (34:30.092)

in what regards.

speaker-0 (34:34.69)

I guess the easiest thing to think of would be creative blocks or just within your own sort of internal process of going things sort of separating from the growth external side.

speaker-1 (34:45.422)

So now when I post a video, don't even, like I'll post it in the evening and then I don't check, like I tuck it away because it's crazy how much your previous success or failure affects your mindset going to the next one. And so when I, it's so funny, cause if you look at my page, you'll see one video that does really well and then the next few do really well. And that's for a few reasons. Number one being like they help each other, like, you know, cause they'll click on one video that does well and then we'll make this one do well cause they go to your page.

But more importantly, when I have a video that does well, I'm like in that mindset of like, whoa, I can do that again. And it's so easy to write. Like when you're up, when you're successful, writing is the easiest thing ever. But then when a video does bad, you go to that mindset. Like, oh. So you just gotta tuck it away. And you just gotta go back to where you were, where I was originally with the iPhone in a tree.

and be like, I'm gonna do this so that in five years I can see it. I'm gonna do this because if I don't make art, what else am gonna do? I'm gonna do this because I got nothing else going on and this is for me. And if other people like it, that's fine. And if that's not, that's okay too. So yeah, you gotta divorce yourself. You gotta get rid of the numbers. Art and numbers are never, we're never supposed to mix, ever, ever. And we've created like, there's so much in like society where it's like, okay, Billboard Hot 100, this, that, the other. You can't measure enjoyment. You can't measure healing. You can't measure.

you know, the effects on the one person who saw it. So, and all this is very cliche, but it's so important because it's so easy to tell yourself that you're not good at something you used to be good at just because one result out of 50, 40, 30 didn't perform the way that you thought it was supposed to.

speaker-0 (36:20.856)

So you post a video, you put your phone away next day or whatever, when you open up your phone for the first time. Is that a stressful moment for you?

speaker-1 (36:31.502)

Now it's like, there was a time when I first started doing that, it's like, cause there was this anticipation. Now it's like, especially like, you know, I've been trying recently to post more. So it's like, okay, even if it does bad, I'll just, I'll write something today. You know what I mean? And so no, doesn't affect me as much. It will always affect you. Like it's always, you know, somewhere in the back of your mind. But I'm getting a lot better at like, okay, I'll check it. then, and I only check it after my writing block. Like after my, sorry, my brainstorming.

So after my first two writing blocks, then I'll check it. I don't check it before, because I don't want it to affect whatever I'm supposed to write for that day. But yeah, no, it's like, it's the biggest like, lay down your cross moment ever in the creative field is stop caring about what they think about it, because they didn't make it.

speaker-0 (37:19.746)

And you have a pretty fixed schedule for your writing blocks and brainstorming.

speaker-1 (37:23.522)

Yeah, for the most part, I try to. I'm not perfect. I'm also like a 21 year old kid. So I definitely have like my moments of debauchery where I just, I'm not productive.

But for the most part, like to do like, so in the mornings I'll have like a devotional, like I'm Christian, so I'll have a devotional. And then after that, I'll do like just brainstorming block. then after that, I like usually around, so the devotional would start around nine, writing block one is 10, take a break. Writing block two is like 1130 roughly, and then lunch, and then take a break. And then I'll check, see, you know, do some emails, take a break from the writing, because you can't just be writing, writing.

and then I'll edit, refine, film, edit the video and post it. That would be a perfect Joshua's Poetry Day. Obviously that doesn't happen every day, because I don't post every day, but if I could make it perfect, that would be what I do.

speaker-0 (38:16.718)

How does faith play a role in your life?

speaker-1 (38:18.114)

Ooh, how is it not? It's and this, will say this, this is like the biggest thing for me, like, especially with like posting things that don't do as bad as like, I have this mindset now, like this, almost like this prayer of like, God show this to the people you wanna see it. And anyone who doesn't see it wasn't supposed to. And so that's not on me. Like I'm writing for his influence. Like I'm writing for what God wants to say to the world and through my work.

And so it's not my videos performing bad. It's not my message performing bad. It's like if they weren't supposed to see it, they won't see it. So the people who watched one of my bigger works at 17 million, 17 million people were supposed to see that that day. Whereas I have a video with, let's say 300,000, only 300,000. And so when it comes to specifically what we're talking about, that's the biggest thing. Just like, God, show this to the people that need to hear this.

And if I'm wrong in this message and this isn't something that should, then don't let it do well, know, keep it down. Which is again, another lay down your cross moment. But in so many ways, it's like, I was even just talking to Reid about this, cause we were talking about when I moved to Austin, okay, so a little backstory, I'm working at Goodwill. It's just not for me, I'm suffering, but I'm broke and I'm not making any money on Instagram. And Reid hits me up, he's like, I'm moving to Austin. And I'm like, I have no money. I have, like, what am I gonna do?

Um, I didn't tell him that of course, but it was like, okay, like God, if you want me in Austin, I'll go to Austin and things kind of lined up. And so I moved to Austin with, I'm trying to remember, I think it was less than 1500 Canadian. So about like a thousand USD in my bank account. I had just gotten a car wreck and lost my car. So no car. And I moved here. I didn't know anyone except for Reid and he didn't know anyone.

I had nowhere to stay. I stayed like a bunch of nights in a hotel and I just couch surfed until I finally got like the most chuffed like West Campus student sublet, because the student was gone for the summer. So I was staying in West Campus in like this cell block of a room with no windows and concrete walls, but it was like 400 bucks a month because it was a sublet. And so I was talking to Reed and he's like, what gave you like the risk tolerance to do that?

speaker-1 (40:36.014)

That's the worst, that was the worst move on the board. Like you're not making any money. You're loo, I was in follower decline. It's like everything was going against me. And it was like, it's not risk tolerance. It's like faith tolerance. Like if, if I'm supposed to be in Austin, I'm supposed to be in Austin and, 1500 Canadian dollars isn't going to affect that one way or the other. And sure enough, like through the last like nine months, opportunity after opportunity after opportunity.

to now where I'm making a decent amount of money at it with like brand deals and stuff, where it's like, right when I'm out, okay, borrow this much from this friend, okay, get a gig, a job doing this, okay, boom, boom, boom. And like, it's like, so one example, like, I'm sure you're familiar with like Creator Camp here in Austin, they were going on tour for their movie that they made. A bunch of TikTokers got together, they made a movie and they were gonna go on tour with it to kind of promote it. And they needed,

a few things, one of which was an MC, and I'm like, okay, I'll do it. And it was like a thousand bucks a month stipend. And they're like, you know, why, you have all these followers, like, why do you wanna work with us? And I'm like, oh, I just, love the vision or whatever. But in reality, I'm like, I need a thousand dollars a month, which changed my life right now. And so not only was it like an opportunity provided to...

live essentially, but it was also the craziest cool experience of my life. Like going on tour across the West Coast, like MCing, was the MC, MCing all these events, going to New York, it was all paid for and then a thousand bucks a month. So not only has he like provided like the finances, but in the coolest ways too. Like I'm not putting fries in the bag, like no respect, cause I definitely did my share of that. I did three years of retail, brutal. But yeah, so that, those are the two biggest ways. Like the...

For me, it's like less about believing in God, more about like having the creator of the universe believing in you. And like, what can't you do with that? You know what I mean? So faith has definitely played a role 100%.

speaker-0 (42:36.438)

And that's something that was just instilled in you from your family or where did that come from?

speaker-1 (42:41.996)

Yeah, okay, so I was raised Christian. And then in that two year gap where like I went to Hawaii and I was working, I was like, okay, it was kind of this moment of like, is this my faith or is this my parents' faith? And so I just walked completely away from like, completely away from Christianity. And then it got to a point where my life was so dark, so, so dark that I'm like, okay, I need something. Like I always believed in a God, like I always believed there had to be something.

I didn't follow a God, I didn't look into it. And so I'm like, okay, let's see what's going on here. So I looked into the main religions, Christianity, Protestantism, Catholicism, Islam, a little bit of Judaism, and then Hinduism. And after looking into those for a couple months, I'm like, okay, let's... It kind of led me back to Jesus.

And so I've been with him ever since. And so, yeah, that's kind of my story. But you always have that moment of like, it's like, cause that's the thing. It's like, oh, well, if you were raised, you know, Islamic, then you would be Muslim right now. But it's like, no, no, no. When I was, when I was 18, I was like, is this mine or is this my parents? And I totally walked away from it and then came back to it. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you.

speaker-0 (44:00.814)

That's incredible.

speaker-0 (44:04.622)

I mean...

to put a spiritual component on it with your poetry. mean, do you feel like a conduit and a messenger with the poetry that you're sharing?

speaker-1 (44:15.15)

I like to think so. I think it would be ignorant for me to say that the concepts and ideas and emotions that I convey are completely from myself. There's just no, like I'm not, like again, I'm a 21 year old kid. Like outside of poetry, I'm like, I'm, you know, I'm just a human kid. And so it's like, there's no way that like these concepts, ideas, one-liners, whatever it is, like all of this good that is coming from quote unquote me is from me.

Like it's just, there's no way. It's like, I've only been doing this for, I guess, okay, March. So almost two years now. And like, you see like the growth and again, like, you know, like I said, like 105 poems and then that conveys over to like a million followers. Like that's a miracle. You know what I mean? So I don't know. I don't like to take credit for it. Also when you don't take credit for it, you don't have to like deal with like, this failed or this, like I said earlier.

But 100%, like there's no way that those ideas, those insane like niche, like, whoa, revelations are all from me. So I would like to say yes. I would say yes, sorry.

speaker-0 (45:26.478)

to dive deeper into that devotional that you do, what does that look like?

speaker-1 (45:30.508)

Okay, so in the mornings, good question. I like this. I don't talk about this a lot. So in the mornings, my devotional starts with like, just kind of like, almost like a meditation, just like a little bit of silence, like just a little bit of like calming down, like putting away the distractions. And then I'll usually listen to some like instrumental worship or like some worship-esque music, sometimes just instrumental music, and just kind of like sit for a second and just kind of like bring it back a little bit. And then I'll do...

Like I'll read like a different part of the Bible depending usually like recently, like recently I've been reading like for example, the Sermon on the Mount like every day. Cause that is like Jesus's main work. Like that is his big poem, if you will. And so I just read that every day and then I write down something new about it. And then after that I'll kind of write out what I want to get done today. It kind of doubles as like also a productivity thing. Cause I think

Another thing, I feel like people put religion in this box, okay, this is my religious sign, but no, no, no, no, no, like it influences everything. It's, being religious is not anti-being productive. Being religious is not anti-being creative. You know what I mean? They all merge together. So whatever I wanna get done today, that's part of my faith. You know what I mean? So I'll write down everything I wanna get done. like, okay, God, help me with this, help me with this, help me with this. And then I'll add some other things on that are going on, like different prayer things. And I'll just kinda sit there and I'll just kinda like,

speaker-0 (46:35.17)

Like, being

speaker-1 (46:55.606)

almost like conversationally, like be like, okay, help me, like talking as if someone was in the room. And then after that, I'll wrap it up and then go about my day. So that's typically my morning devotion. And then also like, God, like give me inspiration, like give me what I'm to tell people today. That's another one that I pray a lot.

speaker-0 (47:16.3)

And that's like 20, 30 minutes or how long does that take?

speaker-1 (47:18.606)

It's an hour. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Hour every day. 100%. Yeah, after the gym, after the gym and breakfast. It's like before I do anything creatively, I start there.

speaker-0 (47:21.816)

First thing in the morning.

speaker-0 (47:29.484)

like you're saying that's a huge part of your creative process.

speaker-1 (47:31.982)

It is the process. It's like the original creator. It's like, you know, the first thing is like, cause everyone's like, okay, the first thing God created was the world or time. No, no, the first thing he created was creating. And then he created a creation to create. And so if you're not like tapped into that, the original creation, what are we doing? You know what I mean? So yeah, that's the, for me personally, that's been a huge part of every process, but definitely specifically the creative process.

speaker-0 (47:59.266)

I guess on the working outside of things the physical side. What do you do lift weights or what's your

speaker-1 (48:03.128)

Yeah, yeah, I do. I run and well, I say I run. I'm sporadic about it. Yeah, famously. Very good. I like that. Aspiring runner, aspiring lifter. Recently, I've been just since December, I've always hated the gym, but living with Reid and Josh, who are both big into fitness, they have had a very positive impact on my life. so Reid's like, hey, I'll get you a gym membership if you go with me. I'm like, okay, we'll try it out.

speaker-0 (48:07.458)

You're aspiring, runner.

speaker-1 (48:29.026)

So we go in the mornings at six and so we'll work out for about an hour, come home, eat, and then I'll get into the devotional. Yeah.

speaker-0 (48:35.118)

That's awesome, You had a really cool experience about a year and a half ago. You performed some of your poetry. I did. At a Dermott Kennedy. Yes. Concert in Nashville, Tennessee. Yes. One of the main things you learned from that experience and being in that environment with famous creative people is that you learned that they outsource everything that isn't part of their craft. You being 21 years old, still in the beginner part of your journey where

speaker-1 (48:58.158)

Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (49:05.326)

you're deep into your craft, but then also at the end of the day, being like, all right, I'm still a person. got a lot of other obligations. How do you go about navigating that?

speaker-1 (49:16.384)

It's like for me, it's important to get the thing that you're most putting off to do first. Like there's always that one thing, whether it's an email with a brand deal, whether it's a meeting with an agent, whatever it is, that needs to be done first so that everything else is easy. Cause especially after the end, and I also do like all of that stuff after my creative process. Cause if I do it before, one thing, another thing that I learned is you only have so much emotional energy, like not physical energy, not spiritual, emotional energy, you only have so much.

And so if you tie that all up into the emails and the response and the bad news, good news, whatever, like it's always up and down, then when you go to actually put that energy into the writing, you don't have anything. So I always do all of that stuff after the writing. And I always start with the hardest one because you'll tell yourself, you like, I tell myself, okay, I'll work up to the big task, email this person, I'll start with this, this, this, this, but it never happens. So start with the biggest one, then work your way down. Cause after the biggest one, everything else is easy. And that's what's worked.

for me, but Remind me the question. kind of like I kind of go on these tangents

speaker-0 (50:19.766)

No, was just about saying, you know, when you're on that famous level, you have a full team who's able to do everything that doesn't go towards your...

speaker-1 (50:28.878)

So so right now I'm all like, I'm all in house. have, and so I would love to get to a point where I have that, but for now it's just, and that's kind of like your cost of entry. You know what I mean? Like if you want that level of whatever it is they have that people want, then that's your cost of entry. Like you got to do everything on your own for a couple of years. And so you just got to head down and write emails, write emails.

speaker-0 (50:54.488)

So you have your own personal writing building off of that. Talk to me about culture of poets.

speaker-1 (51:00.28)

Culture of poets, okay, so this was fun. Okay, so as I'm like doing poetry and stuff, as I'm doing this, like very early on, I kind of have this idea of culture of poets. It was just a line, there's nothing significant about that. But kind of like this idea of like, you know, you have music culture, you have this culture, you don't have a lot of culture of poets. And like the culture around poetry is interesting, I'll say that much. It's like, it's not an appeal to the average.

Everyone listens to music. Everyone watches movies. The people who show up to the poetry events are stereotyped. Like I could tell you what they look like. And there's nothing wrong with that. And I love that. But I want to expand that to a point where like everyone's like, poet, I want a culture of poets. Well, be cool. Correct, a hundred percent. And especially, cause like I said, like it's the foundation of every other piece. So I think it's very important to have that culture. You know what I mean?

And so I started it and it was like, right now it's just kind of a separate Instagram page where I share other people's work. So you can submit now at the current moment, I don't have time for it. So it's kind of on hold, but at its peak, what you do is you'd submit, I'd have a prompt at the beginning of the week, you submit something. And then I pick the ones that I like and I would read it, sharing other people's work. And it's cool to see like, cause there are, I haven't done it a lot, but there are a few videos that like did well. And it's like,

It's so cool, because the artists will then message me and be like, oh my God, it got like 700,000 views. And I'm like, yeah, you wrote that. You did that. You should do it for yourself. You should read them for, you know, that's what's possible. And it's such a cool feeling. It's kind of like, and the amount of people who send me work that's like, this is the first poem I've written. That's like 60 % of them. I don't write poetry, I work construction. This is the first poem I've written. And that is like, wow, that's what I want.

It's like making it mainstream. So that's kind of that. That's on the back burner for now, because I have other things to focus on. But at some point, I would love culture poets to even be like live events and even like publishing. But we'll see.

speaker-0 (53:10.104)

What are the main priorities or main things you're focusing on right now?

speaker-1 (53:14.702)

there's a lot going on right now. recently kind of in December, I had a couple of videos do really well and that brought in a bunch of opportunities that haven't quite manifested. So I'll keep them on the down low. but working in the, in the direction of those. so like, some songwriting with some artists in Nashville, some live events coming up. So different, different things like that. I kind of have my focus as well as like, it's very important. I feel like a lot of these artists, like when they kind of get a little bit of motion on

Instagram or TikTok, they'll go and do these bigger things and they'll forget what got them there. So it's very important that you, cause it was like the people online love my online poetry. And I feel like an obligation to kind of keep giving them that, you know what I mean? And not totally give up on it for like these other arguably more important things. So that's the main thing. Continue to post, work on these new.

That's what I got going on. then culture poets is kind of over here.

speaker-0 (54:16.654)

bringing another identifier buzzword into it. mean, do see yourself as a businessman?

speaker-1 (54:24.522)

Hmm. It's true. I would like to say no, but I think everyone is a little bit. You know what I mean? It's nice to have the mindset of like, the money and the marketing and all this isn't important, just make art, but that's just not, it's not true. And so I think everyone is a little bit and I definitely am. Also, I enjoy the numbers. there's an element to me, like, I don't know, maybe I'm autistic or something, but like the engineering mind, they're like, okay, we'll meet this person, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

There's a little bit of that that's enjoyable. So I'd like to say no, but I think at the end of the day, yes, a little bit of a businessman, a little bit. But yeah, it's also important to keep that totally separate from the art too. So I kind of, I walked the line on that one.

speaker-0 (55:08.504)

feel like it would only be right to finish up with some actual lines of your poetry. I'm ready. Two things that stood out to me.

Your early 20s aren't for winning, they're for learning how to play. What game does it feel like you're playing in life right now?

speaker-1 (55:22.734)

Hmm.

speaker-1 (55:26.982)

that's a good question. I think I I'm really running with this concept of, this concept, I call it the, like the unfortunate timing of being young. And basically what it is is there are big plans coming with that, but basically what it is is it's this idea of like, when you're young, all you have is potential, but you don't see the value of that potential because it hasn't turned into anything yet.

you can be anything, but you don't give yourself that credit, that value, because it hasn't become anything. And so with the comparison game online, like you just see what these people are doing, what these people are doing, and you doubt yourself. it's like, really, it's really hard to be a young person right now. Like it's really, and I know because I was that, it's really hard to be between the ages of 18 and 22 right now, even 25. Because like, look at who knows what AI is gonna do to the job market, who knows what college is gonna do, what's even safe anymore. Like the whole world is kind of going up in flames and like, and then you're sitting with yourself and you're comparing it.

It's a whole thing, but it's just unfortunate timing. Like you're going to get there. It just doesn't feel like that because it's unfortunate timing. And so with that, it's like this concept of like you're adult, but you don't have any adult experience. And so just play the game, figure it out. You know what I mean? The goal for me, at least how I'm planning on treating my twenties is they're just, free. Whatever you do, if I get a house, great. If I get a wife, great. If not, I have my thirties, but it's like, it's very important. And this is a little bit of like,

Gary V's thing, like, you're so young, which is, he takes that too far. He'll tell that to like an eight-year-old on their deathbed. No, you're young. Calm down, Gary. But yeah, so that's kind of my thing. Like I wanna live my twenties as if like I'm just learning how to play for my thirties, forties, fifties. Like I'm just, learning the rules, you know? I'm not on the board yet. And so that's kind of, that's what I meant by that.

speaker-0 (57:16.824)

Seems like you're able to balance really well, obviously having aspirations and wanting to get to a certain place, but also just being next step focused.

speaker-1 (57:24.398)

100%. And it's very much like the idea of row the boat while God steers. And if I'm supposed to do those things, I'll do those things. And if not, God has something else. There's so, I cannot stress it. Cause everyone's like, religious blah, blah, blah. I cannot stress how much peace you find in your life when you're not responsible for taking it places. You know what I mean? It's like, there's no doubt. There's no blame. It's just.

I want to be an amazing poet and sell out stadiums with poetry. It's never been done before. Do live shows, stadiums, poetry. And I am running towards that goal. I'm rowing towards that goal. But if it doesn't happen, it wasn't supposed to happen. And that's okay. And along the way, I'll pick up all these other things and I'll find this thing, I'll find this thing, you know? And so, yeah, you gotta kind of look at it kind of hands off, kind of low pressure.

Especially because like, oh man, it's brutal. Like you'll spend five minutes on Instagram and you'll be like waking up at 5 a.m. cold plunge, day in the life of like making five figures as a 20 year old. It's like, that's not reality. You know what I mean? And so yeah, your 20s are free.

speaker-0 (58:36.184)

My fondest memories don't live inside my calendar. My greatest moments aren't subject to any sort of monthly planner. So let's live today and connect the dots tomorrow because life only makes sense when it's behind you. What do you think you have connected the dots on when you reflect back on your life thus far and understanding yourself?

speaker-1 (58:56.408)

I think the idea that I've always wanted to be in a creative field, like a job where like my input directly affects the output of something. That's why I wanted to be an engineer. And I didn't know what that would look like, but looking back now, I can connect the dots of like, okay, writing, posting, this goal, this goal, this goal. And like at step one, I didn't see any of that. You know what I mean? And so I would say that's the biggest moment of like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be.

That was my biggest dot connection, if you will.

speaker-0 (59:28.11)

Well, it's going to be exciting to see, you know, year, five years, 10 years from now, being able to look back and connect the Joshua, it's been incredible talking with you. Where can people go to learn more about you? Anything else you'd like to share?

speaker-1 (59:32.238)

A hundred percent, I can't wait.

Thank you man, I've enjoyed this.

speaker-1 (59:43.264)

So any of my platforms, so Instagram, Joshua's Poetry, TikTok is Joshua's Poems, different handle, I messed that up, and then Facebook as well. So those are the main things and then that's where I give people updates and stuff. yeah. 100%, thank you, Tim.

speaker-0 (59:58.286)

Awesome, great talking with you.